Joker in the pack
5 Feb 2010
Jaque Fourie’s optimistic outlook has allowed him to shrug off life’s disappointments.
‘Life is lekker’. It’s a philosophy that gets Jaque Fourie through the tough times, and it’s the power of positive thinking that makes him grateful for every minute he’s on the rugby field. Fourie is many things to many people: the best centre on the planet; the smartest defensive player in world rugby; one of the sport’s finest finishers with 28 Test tries to his name; and of course, the team jester.
In the IRB dictionary, you’d find all of the above under the entry Jaque Fourie.
‘I don’t see it as my role to keep morale high or anything like that,’ he tells SA Rugby magazine with an impish grin. ‘It’s just who I am. Life is lekker, and we’re blessed to have this opportunity to do what we love. I love to make people laugh, I’m a positive person and I love spreading that positivity around. I’ve never been into stand-up comedy or anything like that; I’m actually very shy around people I don’t know. When I’m with my friends and team-mates, I suppose I allow myself to get a bit crazy. I guess that positive vibe tends to rub off.’
For someone to fully appreciate the depth of Fourie’s optimistic and unwavering faith in his own ability, they need to understand that it’s been a tumultuous two years for the 26-year-old. There have been the euphoric highs of a series victory over the British & Irish Lions and the long-awaited claiming of the Tri-Nations title, but there’ve also been the grating lows of an acrimonious court battle with the Golden Lions and his ongoing struggle with injuries. It also took an injury to Adi Jacobs and the departure of his good mate Jean de Villiers to Dublin for him to reclaim his starting position, and yet, his attitude has remained constant throughout.
In 2008, a string of injuries prevented Fourie from re-entering the Bok startingfold. Jacobs, a Peter de Villiers favourite,took his opportunity and emerged as one of the star performers on South Africa’s end-of-year tour to the United Kingdom. Jacobs also started at No 13 in two of the three Tests against the Lions until his own injury problems cost him a place in the Tri-Nations. Like Jacobs, Fourie took his chance, and resumed his world-beating partnership with Jean de Villiers.
The former Stormers captain is currently playing for Irish club Munster and was supposedly ineligible for national selection, which is why Jacobs shifted to inside centre for the Boks’ recent tour of Europe, yet De Villiers was recalled when Jacobs got injured. Fourie told SA Rugby magazine in early 2009 that he wanted his No 13 jersey back, and stresses now that patience was a necessary virtue.
‘I’ve never thought of it as winning back my position, it was more a case of getting back to my best form. I’ve always welcomed the pressure that comes with competing for a starting position. It’s healthy for a team, and it ensures you don’t just sit on your arse and wait for on-field opportunities to come your way. It’s always easier to get into the Test team than it is to stay there.
‘Adi and I are both professional players capable of playing different positions. Adi did well on defence in the Test against France, I think the real issue was our attack. We couldn’t get on to the front foot because our scrum struggled and we were beaten at the breakdowns. Our partnership has potential.’
De Villiers and Fourie are recognised globally as Test rugby’s best centre pairing, even though their respective injuries often prevented them from starting together in major tournaments. The 2009 Tri-Nations was a clear example of why they are so celebrated, with De Villiers’s organisational strengths complementing Fourie’s line-cutting knack. Fourie should be frustrated with De Villiers’s decision to move to Ireland just when they had rediscovered that match-altering synergy, but he believes it’s something De Villiers needed to do in order to take his skills to the next level.
‘That was his decision and I have no problem with it. In early 2009, I was in talks with French club Clermont because I felt I needed a change of scenery. It’ll be good for Jean to experience a different culture and type of rugby. We all saw what the trip to Wales did for Percy Montgomery as a player, and I’m sure Jean is going to return to South Africa a better player for his Irish experience. We agreed it’s all about challenging yourself.’
It’s the reason Fourie decided to move to the Stormers. The Lions haven’t won the Currie Cup since 1999 and have finished in the Super 14’s bottom four since the Cats franchise split in 2006. The Lions weren’t willing to release Fourie given that he had another year to serve on his contract, which prompted Fourie to turn to his lawyer Frikkie Erasmus, who incidentally is the Stormers’ commercial manager. On examining Fourie’s contract, Erasmus discovered the player was employed as a ‘technical analyst’ and that the contract was not legally binding.
Fourie played his rugby for Hoërskool Monument and the Lions invested a great deal of time and money in his development. Chief executive Manie Reyneke said it was a slap in the face when he decided to cut his stay short, as the union had stood by him through every one of his injury setbacks.
This stirred a debate of professionalism versus integrity. A player must do what’s best for himself financially, as sporting careers aren’t as long as they used to be, but on the other hand you’re only as good as your word, and a contract – legally binding or not – should be honoured.
Fourie believes the Lions missed the point. He was clear when he said he no longer wanted to represent a union that won’t reach its former heights while he’s still in his prime. He’s not ungrateful, but he didn’t appreciate their relentless efforts to keep him in what was essentially a losing environment.
‘I don’t want to badmouth the Lions, but what happened towards the end of last season was very sad,’ he says. ‘I really didn’t want to play there anymore, but they went to extreme lengths to ensure I remained at the union. They made it as uncomfortable for me as possible by taking the matter to court. That was their mentality.
‘For me, there had been no changes at the Lions and I told them I’d served my time and wanted to move on. But they didn’t see it like that. It was a sad way to end the Lions part of my career.
‘I can understand where they were coming from. They had just appointed a new CEO, hired a new coach and put plans in place for the future. But it was too late for me, my time was up and I wanted bigger and better things.’
Life wasn’t so lekker for Fourie after the Tri-Nations. He was unable to secure an early release to join Western Province for the back end of the Currie Cup. No matter the outcome of the court case, the Lions were going to lose Fourie one way or another. If they had won the legal battle, they’d have kept a player who didn’t want to be there.
WP and the Stormers are only slightly better off than the Lions when it comes to achievement. They last won the Currie Cup in 2001 and haven’t made the Super Rugby play-offs since 2004. Senior professional coach Rassie Erasmus feels 2010 could be the year they crack the top four and has made some big signings in Fourie and Bok wing Bryan Habana, but it could be a while before these players find their feet in the Cape systems. Nevertheless, Fourie feels they are on the right track.
‘Like the Lions, the Stormers struggle because they don’t have the players,’ he explains. ‘You look at the Sharks and Bulls who are always right up there in Super Rugby and the Currie Cup because they each have at least 15 Boks at their unions. To think the Bulls can start a match with as many as 15 internationals is scary.
‘The Lions only had one or two Boks in their side and it was a struggle. You’d have to play out of your skin to get close to winning a game, and I was fed up with that.
‘The Stormers have some exciting players in their squad and have the potential to challenge for the Super 14 title and win the Currie Cup. It’s a bonus that Bryan is coming down too, and I think there’s a fantastic mix of experience and promising youngsters. I also think I’m the right kind of player for their game plan.’
It’s an open secret that De Villiers will reassess his future with Munster in early 2010. If he opts for a release, we may see the potent pair reunited in Stormers colours in the build-up to the World Cup in New Zealand.
‘When I spoke to him he did say he was eyeing a World Cup return,’ Fourie confirms, unable to hide his effervescent optimism. ‘That would make for a lekker Stormers backline. Peter Grant, Jean, myself, Bryan, Conrad Jantjes, Joe Pietersen – it all sounds very exciting.
‘But that’s thinking a bit too far ahead. The year 2009 was a big one for me, but there have been a few smaller sideshows I’d rather forget. I’ve had some niggles and the biggest disappointment was the Lions court case. Hopefully in 2010 there won’t be any distractions and I can focus on my rugby.’
By Jon Cardinelli
– This article first appeared in the Jan-Feb issue of SA Rugby magazine. Click here to subscribe
134 Comments
5 Feb 2010, 11:51 am
WP dragons
5 Feb 2010, 12:05 pm
All we need now is for Ruan to move to the Cape.
5 Feb 2010, 12:05 pm
Shite , is Fourie only 26 ?
5 Feb 2010, 12:06 pm
Maar hy het dalk te veel tande om vir die WEEPEE scrumhalf te wil speel. Ons is nogal ‘particular’ hieronder.
5 Feb 2010, 12:09 pm
basically jaque said he is not interested in playing out of his skin every game and would prefer to rely on the rest of the stormers players to win the games
just kidding, one of my all time favourites this guy and sorry lions fans, if i was him i would have jumped ship ages ago.
5 Feb 2010, 12:27 pm
You described this guy in various ways in this article. To me, the best description of all was left out. It is: Arrogant.
He is good, but not as good as he himself thinks he is. Definitely the best outside centre in SA, though.
5 Feb 2010, 12:28 pm
Is he “still” the best centre in the World ?
I dunno, as Jaque.
5 Feb 2010, 12:31 pm
“De Villiers and Fourie are recognised globally as Test rugby’s best centre pairing”
seriously, who writes this cr@p ?!
5 Feb 2010, 12:32 pm
@Black Panther:
Jon Cardinelli.
5 Feb 2010, 12:44 pm
@Black Panther: Must be pretty close – had an amazing season last year , some of his tries were pure class
5 Feb 2010, 12:47 pm
@Tacitus:
5 Feb 2010, 12:54 pm
The centre position is one where there is no real standout.Much like the No.8 position(has been for a while the latter)
Cant wait to see(if it can happen):
12.Mauger
13.Kahui
@Black Panther:
Dont forget Jaque Fourie is a Keo and SA rugby illuminati.One of the few players who the SARugby Mag cover revolves around.Always a star and “the best”.(list as follows):
1st tier:
Jaque Fourie
Fourie Du Preez
Pierre Spies
Jean De Villiers
Schalk Burger
John Smit
Bryan Habana
Frans Steyn
2nd tier:
Ruaan Pienaar
Bismarck Du Plessis
Wynand Olivier
No questions asked
Victor Matfield
5 Feb 2010, 12:56 pm
Well his enthusiasm should go a long way to erasing memories of ‘Watson’ Province…
5 Feb 2010, 12:57 pm
@mshiniwami: You’ve just listed the players who sell the most magazines.
5 Feb 2010, 12:58 pm
@mshiniwami: No place for Morne..?
5 Feb 2010, 13:05 pm
@mshiniwami: The last great No 8 – Zinzan
Spies has the potential to be a great No 8
5 Feb 2010, 13:06 pm
Ja look, Jacque Fourie is good, no question. But he comes across as one of those guys with no “skaam”.
You don’t go around proclaiming you’re the best in the world. You go around saying that you have been blessed with talent and it is your responsibility to develop it, or that you are striving to be the best in the world, and believe you can get there with hard work etc. etc.
Does Victor go around saying he is the best in the world? Does Du Preez? Does Habana?
Sorry, I just don’t like it very much.
5 Feb 2010, 13:07 pm
What about some articles,covers on:
Beast Mtawarira
Bakkies Botha
Heinrich Brussow
Morne Steyn
Ryan Kankowski
Adi Jacobs
Jongi Nokwe
Ndungane Twins
Guthro Steenkamp
Danie Rossouw
Earl Rose(risque I know but would sell ellicit attention)
How about some up and coming talent like:
Lionel Mapoe
Joe Pietersen
Ashley Johnson
Mpho Mbhiyozo
Ranfred Dazell
Gio Aplon
Frik Kirsten
Johan van Deventer
Dewalt Potgieter
Bjorn Basson
Trompie Nontshinga
Allister Hargreaves
International articles on:
William Ryder
Regan King
Robert Freuan
James Haskell
Martin Castrogiovanni
Stories on whatever happened to??:
Andrew Aitken
Pierre Uys
Friedrich Lombard
Ron Cribb
Lukas van Biljon
Richard Bands
etc
so many angles,stories except the perenial pin up boys
5 Feb 2010, 13:10 pm
@Tacitus: Look coming out of Kdorp you gotte have a bit of attitude
Jacques do us proud
5 Feb 2010, 13:10 pm
@mshiniwami:
To be fair. You might be interested in some of these chaps, but Simon and co. are judged on how many copies the magazine sells. So if everyone isn’t interested in buying a magazine with Gio Aplon on the front cover, then there goes the profits…
5 Feb 2010, 13:11 pm
Yes what happened to Lukas van Biljon didnt he get a Bok cap ?
5 Feb 2010, 13:12 pm
@Simon:
Granted but cant regurgitate the same stories,same angles,same players.Used to buy SA Rugby religiously.but now have lost interest a fair bit in the mag.Always Schalk,F.Steyn,Pienaar,Spies etc
Boring
5 Feb 2010, 13:14 pm
@Tacitus:
You have a point, but sometimes it is also nice if someone speaks the truth (at least what he believes is the truth) instead of the usual rehearsed cliched stuff that one hears so often.
I mean how many times have you heard the usual boring “yes, the opponents were better than us on the day but we will go back to the drawing board” drivel.
5 Feb 2010, 13:14 pm
@stew:
Wasn’t it Solly T who said he was the David Beckham of rugby?
Another clown with an attitude.
As the Good Book says, don’t arrive at a wedding and immediately go and sit in the front row. If the family then comes and chases you to the back seats, you’re going to be embarrassed in front of everyone.
Instead, come in and quietly take a seat at the back. If you are actually entitled to sit at the front, the family will rush to proclaim that you are an honoured guest and move you to the front in view of everyone, thus enhancing your status greatly.
Moral of the story: Don’t blow your own horn. Wait for others to give you the respect that is your due.
5 Feb 2010, 13:15 pm
@Tacitus:
its a suggestion.Take it dont take it.
But the mag isnt what it used to be.
To me at least
5 Feb 2010, 13:20 pm
@Tacitus:
Different strokes for dif folks.
The greatest athlete of the 20th century was the biggest loudmouth ever.But arguably it made him an even better sportsman and showman.As long as one can back it up
That man is:
******** Ali
5 Feb 2010, 13:22 pm
@Tacitus: Understand but maybe the mag is also playing him up – just hope he has an excellent season even if it is for the Stormers
5 Feb 2010, 13:23 pm
@mshiniwami:
Well, I guess you have to decide what’s more important to you: Sporting achievement or the respect of your fellow human beings.
Note that in the case of many humble yet very talented sport stars, those two goals are not mutually exclusive.
5 Feb 2010, 13:24 pm
“Fourie is many things to many people: the best centre on the planet; the smartest defensive player in world rugby; one of the sport’s finest finishers with 28 Test tries to his name”
Couldn’t agree more with this. He’s a wonderful defensive organizer too.
5 Feb 2010, 13:26 pm
It is a bit of a standing joke at the moment amongst WP guys…
This “I am the best center in the world thing”
As long as he produces, he can call himself Mother Theresa for all I care.
5 Feb 2010, 13:30 pm
@PissAnt: Yeah he does seem to be the guy with the biggest attitude in this country, he kind of thinks he’s the Danny-K of SA rugby.
He loves himself, and so does most Stormers.
5 Feb 2010, 13:30 pm
@Tacitus:
The problem I suspect u have is that rugby is not synonymous with loudmouths but more tradition and humbleness etc
But that doesnt cut it for everyone.Too many different dynamics,cultures,ideologies good and bad entering the sport.
Its a bit remniscent of American football.There are the purist who appreciate and want to keep traditions of the past of men such as Vince Lombardi,characterists of players such as **** Butkus etc OLD SCHOOL,then there’s new age high flying athletes,strategies,personalities etc.
Cant look down on either because they bring different advantages,facets to the game.The latter has definitely brought more money,coverage,interest,sponsorship and a wider talent pool which couldnt have entered the sport due to various dynamics eminating from old school.(whether right or wrong)
But thats the price of professionalism
5 Feb 2010, 13:34 pm
@stew: @10
Fourie is a very good player, very powerful and an excellent finisher – probably the best centre at getting over the tryline. His form for the Lions last yr was exceptional.
Personally, I look for far more from a centre than just finishing. The mark of a true centre/13 is how many tries his wingers and FB are scoring, and having strong D is a must on both inside and outisde channels. His D is pretty good, but can appear to have more arms than an octopus at times (eg Conrads try) but I just dont see him setting up too many tries. He’s no Gerber, let alone Mortlock or BOD and he doesnt have the hands or vision of Conrad (Im not necessarily saying Smith is ‘better’ btw).
He is certainly the most arrogant farker playing with a 13 on his back “I STILL think Im the best centre in the World”. cue uncontrollable guffaws ! BOD was, by some considerable distance, the best 13 in 2009 and the Lions pairing of Roberts/BOD was, surely the best 12/13 combo on the Planet last year. IMO…
5 Feb 2010, 13:38 pm
His defensive is usually very strong – man on man – but like you say feeding his winger is very rare …. Is this however a SA rugby problem because we see rarely that even one of the fastest wingers in world rugby , Bryan Habana , seldom gets the ball from a swinging line movement – food for thought ?
5 Feb 2010, 13:41 pm
@Black Panther: Would personally like to see Fourie at fullback – he played there when he started at the lions and was great – this is a postion where his size and power through the line could be utilised – i dont know about his kicking game though ? But this could be the answer to the fullback situation left vacant by Percy (Steyn must play 12)
5 Feb 2010, 13:41 pm
@Tacitus:
That maybe true but as u said its what important to you.
Some people view sport as making the most of their talent in that short window so will do whatever is neccessary to succeed in all facets of the game.With media,sponsorship becoming name of the game nowadays,personalities that entice people and are out of the normal mould of things are what bring spectators to the sport.And eventually will grow to love the sport.But the way that first got interested in the sport however frivilous it might seem to a purist doesnt make them any less of a fan.
Purist are good for the game and keep values/age old principles indicative of game.But they can also be very discriminatory and divisive in their crusade to keep the sport “like they know it”.
Sport is for everyone,whatever the personality.Its whether its destrucive or not thats the issue.If not leave em be.
5 Feb 2010, 13:41 pm
@Black Panther: Seems the Stormers just can’t play one season without an arrogant ‘boks’ in their team, seems they just hate when the country gets behind them and thus gets these arrogant wanks we so love to hate to play for them.
I’ve actualy never seen him realy celebrating one of his tries with the rest of the team, he always pumps his right arm followed by running his hand over his ‘kuif’. Selfish realy. Almost the sam as Habana, he always looks at the crowd smiling and probably hoping someone will flash him.
5 Feb 2010, 13:47 pm
@FireStraeuli: Alot has to do with showmanship – this is a business after all – look at Mshiniwami’s post a bit earlier – M Ali is a perfect example
5 Feb 2010, 13:51 pm
WHO must he feed on the wing – he has been playing with the Ndunganes on the wing a lot, no pace and so nowhere in sight.
Brian and Fourie – very time the two of them touch the ball in the same movement there is a try, check it out. I saw that on one of the Aussie sites some time last year, cannot remember which one and no time to google it now.
5 Feb 2010, 13:53 pm
@FireStraeuli:
I suspect that Fourie has read one too many self motivational books, you know the type where you have to “visualize yourself as the best, to be the best”, and that type of ****.
Reminds me of the wife in American Beauty, who is a real estate agent and keeps listening to motivational tapes in her car.
“I am in control of my destiny”
“I am an achiever”
“I have the will to be successful.”
“I, I, I”.
Self absorption and self obsession, is what I call it.
5 Feb 2010, 13:59 pm
@stew: @34
hear hear, youve hit the nail on the head.
To a man, Kiwis will say what a waste Habana has been in the Bok backline. He’s clearly a genius, 1 of the best wingers ever anywhere. And yet he relies for most of his tries on intercepts or opposition mistakes. 1 thing is for sure, if he was on the end of an AB/Aus/France backline, his try tally would be double+.
That we fella, Jantjes (?), is not the perfect centre either but atleast he is creating space for his outsides to manouvre into. Fourie simply doesnt, he runs lines for himself only and then takes all the glory. He’s a very good player, but not a great centre let alone the best.
The issue actually is more complex in that, with Morne the Metronomic rooted in the Bok 10 jersey, Habana will get even less ball and Fourie less space.
@stew: @35
a FB huh ? yep, havent seen him kick but he certainly has the other attributes, ie his spot-tackling and finishing.
Cant agree with you re Frans. His best position is 15.
5 Feb 2010, 14:04 pm
@Black Panther:
It’s not about Habana. It’s about the team. And if the team wins, who cares if Habana is running free or not?
Conversely, he might get lots of ball at the Stormers, but the team will not win as many games. What’s the point of that, then?
5 Feb 2010, 14:06 pm
@Black Panther: Agreed he is wasted in SA – come to the Saders Brian , can only dream.
5 Feb 2010, 14:11 pm
@stew: I know, but Ali was in the ring by himself, Fourie has 14 team mates out there doing the work with him, rugby aint a one man band.
5 Feb 2010, 14:12 pm
@FireStraeuli: Get your point
5 Feb 2010, 14:16 pm
@Tacitus: You’re probably right. If you want to take all the shine, become a solo athlete, play singles tennis or do athletics where it is you against the world, team sport means the team take the glory, not the individual.
Anyway, easy to shine when you’re the only diamond (ie. looking good when playing for the Lions).
5 Feb 2010, 14:16 pm
@Black Panther:
By wee fella, You meant Adrian Jacobs
5 Feb 2010, 14:19 pm
@mshiniwami:
Mish, you Monstered the Mash as usual.
Thats the one. I like him, he plays like a Maori does, jinking and jiving, duckin and weavin. Far more dangerous. Not without his falws, true to say. As an AB fan, he gave me the willys more than Fourie, put it that way.
Hang on, you dont always monster the mash…….George Smith “a better allround player than McCaw” was tantamount to drunken hyperbole !
5 Feb 2010, 14:22 pm
@mshiniwami:
I suppose all black people look the same to him.
5 Feb 2010, 14:26 pm
@Dawn: mshiniwami aint Black
5 Feb 2010, 14:27 pm
Jaque really does seem to be enjoying his rugby down here…
expect great things from him…
and watch Habs scoring rate take an upwards curve…
5 Feb 2010, 14:29 pm
@Tacitus: @42
who said it was ‘all about Habana’ ? not me.
Im merely stating the obvious. He has way more skills available than merely waiting for opposition mistakes/intercepts. When the Auckland/Blues team of yesteryear had JK or Inga or Jonah on the end of the backline, they invloved them at every opportunity, whether as decoys, creators or simply finishers. Same with Goldie Wilson at Otago.
Yes, of course its about the team. But even when the Boks had periods of total dominance from their pack in 2009 (never sustained for 80mins, but most certainly periods of 20-30mins), then they still werent scoring heaps of tries. Im sure teams like ABs or France, if they had similar periods of dominance, their wingers would be scoring in bulk and the winning margins would have been greater. So despite having a dominating pack, the Boks could still have lost games when they shouldnt have. Mark my words, they wont keep winning in 2010 simply by Morne hoofing it to the corners and Fourie/JdV/Habana waiting for mistakes. Too easy to work out. Dont believe me ? watch the replays from Dublin and Toulouse.
5 Feb 2010, 14:31 pm
@FireStraeuli
What did u think of Jeff Wilson?
5 Feb 2010, 14:32 pm
@Black Panther: Nail on the head comes to mind but the Bulls fans will never agree
5 Feb 2010, 14:32 pm
“The best centre on the planet”
Find me one person outside of South Africa who agrees with this and I’ll eat my hat….
“the smartest defensive player in world rugby”
You can not be serious. Defence is not all about never being breached. The best can take it to another level. If you want to see an example take a look at Thierry Dusatoir. Not content with holding the line the guy goes into every tackle like its his last…See World Cup quarter final where, as most now know, he made more tackles than the entire All Blacks side….
“one of the sport’s finest finishers with 28 Test tries to his name”
Fair enough…
5 Feb 2010, 14:32 pm
Roberts and Fourie was a pretty good center combo for the Barbarians also.
5 Feb 2010, 14:33 pm
@ufo: @51
yeah, until winter kicks in and those midweek practices in the sludge become a reality
8)
5 Feb 2010, 14:33 pm
@mshiniwami:
the Aussie commentator…????
5 Feb 2010, 14:33 pm
@FireStraeuli: are you swearing? (#37)
what happened to your protests on the sicknote thread?
5 Feb 2010, 14:34 pm
@Charlie:
So?
Your point?
5 Feb 2010, 14:36 pm
@charo:
Hardly any different to Jozi at those freezing winter practices…??
I’m sure we can find Jaque plenty to do to warm the cockles of his heart…!
5 Feb 2010, 14:37 pm
@mshiniwami: Well besides him being an AB which already makes me not be a fan of him, i sort of remember him as being a little anoying, but I can’t remember if he was arrogant and whether that was Fitzies department only.
5 Feb 2010, 14:43 pm
@FireStraeuli: @62
aaaah, Loftus ’96.
WILSON !
5 Feb 2010, 14:43 pm
@the peanut gallery: Ummm, No. ‘Boks’ is me actualy not swearing. But if you felt offended I appologise and I hope you find someone to program the ‘user defined family filter with selective input’ and we’ll all be able to block the comments with profanities and blasphemies and racialy motivated words, and those talking against Smit as TH, and anyone that’s a blou nul. LOL
5 Feb 2010, 14:45 pm
@Black Panther: If I’m not mistaken that was the incident which the Luke Watson loftus saga was compared to?
5 Feb 2010, 14:45 pm
@Charlie:
Am I not?Thats news to me bud…
Black Panther:
Lmao…Dont drink,not dellusional neither…Hehehe
But seriously,in terms of the complete skillset of an all round rugby player….Even u would have to conceede Smith is more complete than McCaw.Ive seen Smith pull of cut out passes to put backs into space than would make Larkham proud,seen him put boot to ball for wingers to score sublime chip chase tries,reserve passes etc and still do the hard yards of a flank forward.A better link player than McCaw-who is not too shabby himself.Where McCaw beats Smith is crucial turnovers,slowing down ball,lineout option.
MCCaw is more effective player in what he does,Smith in footballing terms I still believe has the wider skills set and more complete player.Not better
@ufo:
??? The great AB back.Goldie
5 Feb 2010, 14:47 pm
@FireStraeuli: oh, i thought “wanks” was a swear word. as in “arrogant wanks”.
silly me
5 Feb 2010, 14:52 pm
@Black Panther:
Goldie….sublime footballer…
Had everything for back….complete.Hardly any weakenesses..plus had arrogance and confidence to boot.The dude was arrogance personified but could back it up everyday of the week and then SOME!
Cullen,Wilson,Umaga/Lomu….A joy to watch..Goldie in my view undoubtebly the most talented in group.
96 Loftus
Was that when he scored a double and put his hand over his mouth in a mocking fashion of disbelief…Destroyed the Boks that day.
Do u remember when he gave Roff the outside in 2001..Roff couldnt get around him with almost 20min of space…chased him down and stripped him off the ball and got up and waved to the crowd…SHOWMAN
5 Feb 2010, 14:52 pm
@the peanut gallery: No, dont think it is…but I’ll be sure to sensor myself in future before using any more bordeline words….happy
5 Feb 2010, 14:53 pm
@mshiniwami:
good question… glad you asked…
Thing is… these white guys all look the same to me…!!
(ref BlackPanther @ 41…)
5 Feb 2010, 14:55 pm
@mshiniwami:
Of course knew you were reffering to Goldie… just teasing BlackPanther…
Jeff Wilson was a great player… thinking player with buckets of talent… good cricketer too… Played for the Black Caps…
5 Feb 2010, 15:07 pm
I take it he was only joking then when he went on record to say he was the best Outside Centre in the world?
5 Feb 2010, 15:07 pm
@ufo:
LOL
Was flabbagasted there for a sec,anyone that doesnt know Wilson is as good as retarded in the rugby sense.lmao
Wilson played backetball for NZ,a pointguard
freak
5 Feb 2010, 15:11 pm
Oh my Jaques you have come far from the young u/10 that had to be transported from RAM to Glenharvey by a teacher, I am taking my hat of to the act that you made the big time.
I now have one fear that my 10 year old son who idolises you will take the same attitude of loyalty that you have. You say that ‘I don’t want to badmouth the Lions, but what happened towards the end of last season was very sad,’ he says. ‘I really didn’t want to play there anymore, but they went to extreme lengths to ensure I remained at the union. They made it as uncomfortable for me as possible by taking the matter to court. That was their mentality”
Well you signed the contract and read it, and through the request of yourself and your agent deliberately asked that no amount or value be added.
I will take the page from your history and teach my son about integrity and honesty, and use you as a bad example. I wish you all the best in your career and may our paths never cross as you have lost many a fan that used to look up to you.
5 Feb 2010, 15:12 pm
@FireStraeuli: @65
really, did Luke score two blinding tries of individual brilliance to tip his team in to a historical Series victory ?!?
@mshiniwami: @66
Not even within cooee.
Both brilliant nevertheless.
@mshiniwami:
incredible athlete, Goldie, unbelievable ! Sublime skillset.
Yes, arrogant. When he did that to the Loftus crowd, Pinetree Meads must have blushed, most un-AB.
But that 1 chip-ahead-and-chase try incred, only surpassed by DCs vs Lions ’05.
My favourite memories EVER come from ’96, nothing else compares. Not RWC, Not Grand Slams, TriN not even close.
Fitzy pumping his fist on the AB tryline after 10mins under the kosh. Sensational. I have that picture on my study wall.
5 Feb 2010, 15:12 pm
@mshiniwami: And we all remember a certain player on his debut knocking the ball out of Wilsons arms when he was over the tryline , enabling the wallabies to win the Bledisloe – mr gregan
5 Feb 2010, 15:14 pm
@stew: @76
incorrect spelling mfraid.
its Grogan.
5 Feb 2010, 15:16 pm
@Black Panther: Is that irritating midget playing in Japan now ?
5 Feb 2010, 15:18 pm
@mshiniwami:
freak indeed…
5 Feb 2010, 15:22 pm
@Black Panther:
Maybe not at internatinal level…
but…
Big Vic Matfield put in a sublime chip and chase to outsprint the defence for the Bulls in 2001 against the Tahs…
awesome skills for a forward…
5 Feb 2010, 15:33 pm
He most certainly is the best outside centre on the planet. O’Driscol and Mortlock fight it out for 2nd. Hope he does well in the Cape.
5 Feb 2010, 15:46 pm
ricky chipped and chased to score a try and beat the ab’s at home.
wouldn’t his skills are sublime though
5 Feb 2010, 15:58 pm
Players like Jaque gets me excited about the stormers prospects.
5 Feb 2010, 16:16 pm
@stew: @78
I think so. Maybe he’s a player/coach ? Who cares what happens in Japan, the Purgatory country of World rygby ?
@ufo: @80
that was a corker, tis true. For a big man, he has unbelievable skills. I would say Ali Williams, pre doble-archilles snap, had an even wider skillset for a giraffe.
5 Feb 2010, 16:19 pm
If a contract is not legally binding, it’s not a contract.
5 Feb 2010, 16:25 pm
“Adi and I are both professional players capable of playing different positions. Adi did well on defence in the Test against France, I think the real issue was our attack. We couldn’t get on to the front foot because our scrum struggled and we were beaten at the breakdowns. Our partnership has potential”
Hhmm!!, interesting observation.
5 Feb 2010, 20:21 pm
@Black Panther: 75…yeah well…after losing the WC(again) in ’95 I guess a little fist pumping was in order…
6 Feb 2010, 00:37 am
You’ll find many South African players who are indeed the best in the world in a position won’t get recognition. I think it’s due to the world having a pure hate towards those “Racist” thuggish South Africans who play dirty to win all the time.
Jaque Fourie, with limited time in the Lions tour (due to the quota system) changed the outcome. Something BOD couldn’t do. That there is evidence enough.
6 Feb 2010, 01:20 am
@Black Panther:
@42……Habanna’s try tally may improve if he played for the AB’s but he would not have a WC Medal!!
6 Feb 2010, 01:23 am
@Kobus Kitty:
Gee, and what type of people do you think gives them that image ?
@Storm outta hell:
RWCs aint got nothing on spanking your main rivals in a Series on their own soil. Something the Boks havent done in 73 years.
6 Feb 2010, 01:26 am
@Storm outta hell:
They pump more than their own fists mate…… eish!
6 Feb 2010, 03:18 am
@Black Panther:
Winning this years Tri-Nations and clean sweeping the All Blacks 3-0 doesn’t come close to winning the world cup. You wouldn’t know though, because you probably weren’t born when the All Blacks won their world cup which didn’t include the Springboks.
Anyways, I feel silly counting the first two world cups. So basically New Zealand has never won the world cup.
6 Feb 2010, 03:24 am
@Kobus Kitty: This year you have not won a thing.
6 Feb 2010, 05:04 am
@Kobus Kitty: and still the ledger reads 42-33.. so one good year doesnt make a vintage, will they do that this year, not if they stick to the same kick and chase philosophy, we seen how quickly it was dismantled up north
Scotland have beaten your Boks 4 times throughout history.. and theyve beaten the ABs the same number of times as Ireland, a grand tally of 0.. would love to see the same tally of Scotland/Ireland vs the Boks… care to enlighten me?
6 Feb 2010, 05:30 am
@poppa69:
They can play the kick chase against anyone. But a kick is only as good as its chase. De villiers, Spies and Smith were some of the biggest chasers in the TN. They were all missing in the EOYT (besides De villiers who played 20 mins against Ireland)
I thought the Springboks showed they can play another gameplan, remember what they did to the Wallabies in Perth? or did you forget?
Why are you bringing up what Scotland has done? I don’t care about them. I could say that Wales have only beaten the Springboks once, while they’ve beaten the All Blacks three times… but I don’t give a flying kak.
World Cups
Springboks 2
All Blacks 0 (We don’t count the first two)
6 Feb 2010, 05:33 am
@Kobus Kitty: “(We don’t count the first two)”
We? Are you The King. We. wtf.
You probably do not count anything between 1964 and 1992.
6 Feb 2010, 05:35 am
By the way, have you seen Invictus yet? Clint does a wonderful job on showing how much superior the Boks are to the All Blacks.
6 Feb 2010, 05:38 am
@Nils:
How can one call itself a “World Champion” if it didn’t actually beat the world?
Come, lets all just agree that the Springboks would have won the first two world cups, had they been invited.
6 Feb 2010, 05:39 am
@Kobus Kitty: youre not going down the road of using Big Hits line of “not our strongest team” Kobus? as Ive said, the Boks were by far the best team in the 3Ns last year, but if you think the same gameplan is going to be as effective, well you are setting yourself up for a fall… The mark of a true champion team is to evolve and stay top of the heap, not like 08 when you came crashing down..
yep, I also remember what the wallabies did to SA in Brisbane, do you ?
you dont count the first two? funny that, have a look at the trophy if you get a chance, you will see NZ as the very first name, followed by Aus and ratified by the governing body of rugby, so Id say it counted…
just hope to see you here later on this year if the kick chase plan doesnt work…
oh yes, and the ledger still reads 42-33, so you could win 3-0 for the next two years and STILL be behind… what is the win/loss record against each other since isolation? Id say it would be a fair fair difference, does that count?
6 Feb 2010, 05:40 am
@Kobus Kitty: Are SA “the world”? No. Knowing Bok poor record away from home sweet home (and sweet home referees), I think they would have crashed out in quarters/semis both times, of course, had they qualified.
6 Feb 2010, 05:42 am
@poppa69: It’s enough to remind 0-3 to both France and Ireland.
6 Feb 2010, 05:56 am
@poppa69:
How many world cup attempts have the All Blacks had? That’s all that really counts. Rugby works in a 4 year cycle if your brain hasn’t realized that by now.
Springboks are the most successful team with 2 wins out of 4 attempts, what’s the All Blacks record at world cups?
The point is your win/loss ratio against the Boks can vanish within a couple of years but you can never take our World Cups away.
3-0, go cry about it.
6 Feb 2010, 05:58 am
@Kobus Kitty: Im not crying about it Kobus, so youve been lucky twice.. big deal, have you guys ever scored 50 against the ABs? didnt think so, weve done it to you on 3 separate occasions, and the truth of the world cup was shown at Newlands remember? the world champs beaten at home without scoring for a full 80 minutes? 19-0 was it, AT HOME OMFG!
thats crying material right there mate…
6 Feb 2010, 05:58 am
@Nils:
Your blog name “NILS”… it reminds me of some sort of toilet cleaner detergent, so you might want to think about changing it – just a suggestion.
6 Feb 2010, 05:59 am
@Kobus Kitty: funny, it reminds me of newlands, 19-NILS bwahahahaha
6 Feb 2010, 06:02 am
@Kobus Kitty: “what’s the All Blacks record at world cups?”
4th most successive after Australia, SA and England. You know, Aussies have one final, too, while you watched from the sidelines, so Australia are the most successive, like it or not.
Here’s a checklist for you:
Sevens series (right now)
Super 14
Tri nations
Series win vs NZ
And watch how it disappears one by one this year.
6 Feb 2010, 06:04 am
@Kobus Kitty: I will not mention in public what your name reminds me, I am too polite.
As for suggestion to change my nick, here is a middle finger for you. Fresh.
6 Feb 2010, 06:05 am
@poppa69:
Have a good look at the 08 side. It was filled with players like Guthro, Januarie, Janjtes, Out of form Habana, Adi Jacobs, old broken down Butch James, semi-retired Montgomery, a new coach with a new game plan. Seems like a lot of players selected for… political reasons? You can ignorantly deny it or call it an excuse, either way its a known fact that it happens.
So brag about that win, I for one will keep bragging about how the All Blacks get molested in every world cup.
6 Feb 2010, 06:07 am
@Nils:
No, the Springboks are the most successful team at World Cups, 2 titles from 4 attempts.
6 Feb 2010, 06:10 am
@Kobus Kitty: cmon Kobus, they were wearing the Bok blazer, therefore the Bok side.. dont slip down the slope ala Big Hit and blame it on “not your best side”, otherwise Ill claim the first two wins in SA last year with the same excuse? works both ways…
6 Feb 2010, 06:10 am
@Kobus Kitty: In percentages – yes. In real achievements – no, it’s Australia.
And keeping in mind how laughable are their rugby union players stocks, comparing to, say, SA, NZ or England, Australia are without peers the most successive WC team.
6 Feb 2010, 06:15 am
@Kobus Kitty: molested? losing by 2 points to a team that only had 30% possession the entire match and who did not concede a penalty the entire second half, while conceding 2 for the whole match? if SA had been on the end of that shocking display (or England Big Hit), the uproar would have been deafening… all Im asking for is a little objectivity, but that seems beyond you..
6 Feb 2010, 06:17 am
@poppa69: Hehe, remember, when Barnesey reffed Cheetahs vs BIL, folks here went bananas. Not to mention Brisbane, when Wallas tore them apart anyway.
6 Feb 2010, 06:19 am
@poppa69:
It was your best side, besides Carter.
Haymen is very overrated, Chris Jack is old and would’ve been dominated by Matfield and Ali Williams is an injury prone, weak Bekker type of player who would be out for another whole season if Bakkies Botha just looked at him funny.
@Nils:
I disagree. 2 titles, 4 attempts. Most Successful team in the world cup. It’s not rocket science, which part about that do you not understand?
6 Feb 2010, 06:22 am
@Kobus Kitty: It’s your right to disagree. Democracy.
6 Feb 2010, 06:23 am
@Kobus Kitty: For me, 2 titles and a final are better than just 2 titles. But, as I said, feel free to think otherwise, I am not going to call you in rude words for that.
6 Feb 2010, 06:25 am
@Nils: agreed Nils, though the true rugby people on here (objective SA’s) tend to agree we copped it, yet I will still state I was pleased SA beat England in the final.. most of them forget that they had all of NZs support in 07, because its always been the ABs Boks as the pinnacle of rugby, but some like Kobus are just intent to wind people up and do the intense rivalry a major disservice at the same time…
they tend to forget that we as Kiwis played them during isolation, why? because we love the game of rugby and we admire the way SA play… but you only need to spend a small amount of time on here and realise they dont feel the same way..
and to be quite frank, without the AB/Bok rivalry, rugby would end up like league…
6 Feb 2010, 06:26 am
@poppa69: I will say frankly, I supported SA in the final only because the other ones were Poms. I hoped France will win it.
6 Feb 2010, 06:27 am
@Kobus Kitty: no it wasnt our best side Kobus, we had 10 frontliners out… but I wont use it as an excuse like you… still, what do I expect from a bloke that changes teams once they lose a game, shows the nature of the man…
6 Feb 2010, 06:29 am
@poppa69: Forget it, ABs always are ABs, all others have B, C or Z and other kind of “experimental” sides when get their asses kicked. 8)
6 Feb 2010, 06:30 am
@Nils:
6 Feb 2010, 06:48 am
@poppa69:
Name the top All Black side then.
Don’t try and judge me, I’m not the one that blogs racial comments after my team gets destroyed.
And yes, if there’s no chance of the Bulls making the Semi-finals, but a chance for say… the Sharks, I’d support the Sharks if they played the Bulls.
6 Feb 2010, 06:50 am
@poppa69: @Kobus Kitty: Good night, gentlemen. Have a good time.
6 Feb 2010, 07:02 am
@Kobus Kitty: I knew that would come up sooner or later, seems to be your last line of defence… is that 8 months youve held onto that now, not related to whatever are you? and all it was was a simple statement about the state of your country at the time and why they werent invited in 87, why dont you post it again… we can start a poll, if the majority think its rascist then I’ll concede and leave the site, hows that?
6 Feb 2010, 07:05 am
@Kobus Kitty: “dont try and judge me” ?? funny that, yet you judge me at every opportunity, how do you live with yourself… is the world worthy of your omnipotence…
tumeke man, tumeke..
6 Feb 2010, 07:16 am
Kobus “Chris Jack is old and would’ve been dominated by Matfield ” ummm Chris jack wasnt in the 2008 side, he went to the NH… oops
6 Feb 2010, 08:04 am
@poppa69: Jack is a fantastic lock….excelled at WP…what a player.
No one will dominate him.
And i love the boks!!
6 Feb 2010, 08:53 am
@poppa69:
The 87 world cup wasn’t mentioned. You were just filled with rage after your team was pumped solid. You keep lying because you’re ashamed of your actions.
@grant10:
I assure you, Matfield or Botha would dominate him.
6 Feb 2010, 09:54 am
@poppa69:
But you really do get molested at every world cup. You repeatedly go into the competition as the best side in the workd and then you get slapped around by the French or someone.
Then there’s the inevitable conspiracy theory to accompany the fallout.
It’s sad, because on the face of it, the All Blacks are the most consistently successful team in the world. But every World Cup that has been properly contested, has seen you get molested.
6 Feb 2010, 10:42 am
@Kobus Kitty: youre the one who said the 87 world cup and 91 world cup didnt count Kobus?? the meds must have been fully hitting you then huh? take a look back and see mate… not playing with a full deck son..
@Vetkoek: well, 87 we werent the best side, 91 we werent the best side, 2003 we werent the best side, as much as it pains me to say Eng had that mantle 2003..
95 we werent the best side going into the world cup, so not really sure what youre saying is correct…
a 2 point loss is a molestering haha
hate to see what you classify 53-3 as, or 52-16 for example.. or even 49-0, now thats being molested…
6 Feb 2010, 13:04 pm
@poppa69:
I’m not talking about in this article, don’t try and be sly.
You and I both know we’re talking about the Tri-Nations Durban Boks v New Zealand article when you made that incredibly racist and nasty comment, the 87 world cup was not mentioned in that article.
Anyway, every game outside of the world cup is forgettable, they all blend in after time. World Cup games live on forever.
I feel for the All Blacks, and New Zealand as a nation… they have never felt the joy of winning on such a big occasion.
6 Feb 2010, 13:19 pm
@Kobus Kitty: my response was to your comment in this article..
that rascist comment huh lmao.. the fact the comment was a true indication of your country at the time, seems you missed the context of the remark… in which I also stated if it wasnt because of that you guys would have been invited in 87..
love the way you twist it to suit yourself…
6 Feb 2010, 13:42 pm
@Kobus Kitty:
I believe we have won the RWC. The very first one.
Kobus carry on with your RWC is the only thing that matters. Tell Smit that the RWC only matters,dont worry about winning the 3N,i think he would slap you in the ******.Its quite amusing listening to you.
6 Feb 2010, 14:38 pm
@poppa69:
I could quote it again if you’d like? Don’t try and lie. You’re only degrading yourself, and perhaps your Maori heritage.
@Hurricane:
You have… unofficially though. The smarter fans would agree with me that its silly to count the 87 world cup as anything more than an amateur friendly tournament.
Judging by your last comment, I assume I’ve gotten under your skin with my comments. Do me a favor though, don’t take it out on the wife, ‘kay big guy?
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