Daniel denies Sharks rift
16 Mar 2010
Keegan Daniel says there’s no in-fighting in the Sharks camp.
With five losses from five starts, the Sharks find themselves in the unfamiliar 12th position on the Super 14 log. Despite the player drain over the last couple of years, the Sharks still have one of the best squads in the tournament as they regularly field over 10 Springboks, but continue to disappoint their fans.
With every loss, the talk of a split between captain John Smit and the Du Plessis brothers Bismarck and Jannie, continues to surface. Bismarck has had to sit on the bench for two games, Jannie has started a couple, while Smit has started all the matches so far.
Daniel predictably backed his team-mates and coach, and said there were no off-field problems, although on the field the trio all look visibly frustrated. They have all been sin-binned throughout the season, while the Du Plessis brothers lambasted replacement scrumhalf Rory Kockott late in the Brumbies match for what they deemed a poor decision to pass to Jannie as the Sharks looked for the winning try.
‘Talk of a split is bullshit,’ Daniel told keo.co.za. ‘Personally, I say there is no rift in the camp. We are the ones here and we know what’s going on. People are just looking for a story and are looking for other reasons for the losses. The mood in the camp is great, we all see how we hang out together and get along.
‘If people think a rift is the reason for losing, then that’s what they must write, but it’s not true.’
Whatever the reason for their poor form, the facts are that the Sharks have lost seven consecutive Super 14 matches and have won just one from their last 10. Most recently they went down to the Brumbies 24-22, the fourth time this season they’ve lost by less than five points.
‘I wouldn’t say confidence is a problem, although anyone will tell you that after five losses it does become harder to pick yourselves up,’ said Daniel. ‘We are positive as we’ve been so close in losing by narrow margins. We’d be having a different conversation right now if we’d won those.
‘But we haven’t been clinical enough in closing out games after being in good positions. Indiscipline again cost us against the Brumbies, as two penalties led to their tries.’
The Sharks’ last victory in the competition came against the Highlanders, who they face on Saturday at Carisbrook. The Landers return from their South African road trip, where they were hammered by the Stormers and Bulls. They will also be jet-lagged after the return journey.
John Plumtree’s charges have also won on their last three visits to the House of Pain, and if they don’t repeat that this year, more questions will be rightfully raised.
‘They say history doesn’t lie and we have been successful there, but we mustn’t take anything for granted,’ said Daniel. ‘We’ll go in with confidence after doing reasonably well, but the Highlanders are still a Super 14 franchise who can play good rugby.’
Meanwhile, centres Adi Jacobs (knee) and Riaan Swanepoel (ankle) are battling to be fit for Saturday’s match, while prop Deon Carstens is also struggling with a knee injury.
By Grant Ball
303 Comments
16 Mar 2010, 05:42 am
Of course there is no rift. You just have the worst coach in the competition.
16 Mar 2010, 05:43 am
The old boys needs to be fired and more home grown players developed…
16 Mar 2010, 06:11 am
@Aus_Rebel:
I think the Force have that mate!
16 Mar 2010, 06:19 am
@whatever: Mitchell is shocking, and to think that some of the Sharkies are hoping he will be coaching them next year. Absolutely bizarre.
16 Mar 2010, 06:36 am
Sink the Bismarck.
16 Mar 2010, 06:54 am
Ja sure, all is honky dory in the sharks camp.
16 Mar 2010, 07:01 am
So much for the reputation of The House Of Pain. The name no longer has the same effect it once did on visiting teams.
The House of Plain seems more fitting.
16 Mar 2010, 07:06 am
go Keegan! Shooting from the hip is see…
16 Mar 2010, 07:09 am
Its a pity that there is a rift between these players. This means the Boks will also be affected. I must say everything was fine at the Sharks for many years between Smit and Bismark until the older brother Jannie appeared on the scene
16 Mar 2010, 07:12 am
@whatever:
As bad as Mitchell is, he doesn’t have as big an academy nor 14 Springboks in his side to work with like Plumtree has had.
16 Mar 2010, 07:13 am
I worry about people that question John Mitchells abilities.
Personally, I think he is one of the finest coaches around. He has worked minor miracles the past two seasons, given the material and circumstances he was let loose with. Unfortunately the enormity of his work over the past two seasons appears to have caught up with him this season.
He needs a change. Give him some decent material to work with and then will see how good he really is
16 Mar 2010, 07:22 am
I dont really give a toss about the Sharks, but if quoted correctly that ou Jannie DuP lambasted Kockott for that pass and then actually slept well that night, then I give up.
Nee man Jannie, vang eersie ball…. dan kan jy ***** en moan.
16 Mar 2010, 07:24 am
So laat ons opsom: Selfvertroue is hoog. Daar is ‘n lekker gees in die span. Julle het een van die sterkste spanne in die toernooi. Julle het ‘n goeie afrigter. Maar julle het nognie ‘n wedstryd gewen nie. Wat jy eintlik vir my sê is dat perde dr#lle eintlik vye is. Of dit, of julle verloor aspris. “Match fixing ?”
16 Mar 2010, 07:27 am
As the old saying goes, where there’s smoke theres’s fire!
I believe that there are problems in the camp but who knows what they are actually all about, they might have nothing to do about the Du Plessis brothers and John Smit.
I believe, it has more to do with players having to play week after week out of position. Enough has already been said about John Smit and Ruan Pienaar but what about Willem Alberts, one of there better eigthmen around, now having to play lock and flank.
Jean Deysel does not know what is expected of him one week on the bench the next week not.
The acquisition of Steenkamp from the Bulls ahead of their own home grown Hargreaves. What does that say?
I have no doubt that the players are confused to say the least and have now lost all confidence in themselves.
This is a good example to all to what can happen if you do not manage your players properly.
16 Mar 2010, 07:27 am
Should be another tight one for the sharks this weekend, hopefully coming out on the better side of the scoreboard this time. This game and the blues/brumbies could ruin many a superbru scorecard this weekend.
16 Mar 2010, 07:29 am
@Bod:
Jannnie du Plessis dropped a pass minutes after he came onto the field in the Waratahs game too. I recall using expletives at both crucial moments where he was funnily enough involved.
Palooka of note, and he should make a sexual departure back to the Cheetahs.
16 Mar 2010, 07:31 am
I do not really care what people say here on keo regarding the sharks. I dont really care what the journo’s have to say about the sharks. Quite frankly i dont give hoot what Keegan Daniels has to say about the Sharks there body langauge on the field say’s it all. Utter stront rerige k*k rugby. Jammer ,Sorry the Sharkies are my team but come on , Please give me a break !!!!!
16 Mar 2010, 07:32 am
israel dagg should punish these sharks if they’re sleeping?
16 Mar 2010, 07:37 am
@Predawn: And he is supposed to be a doctor, with those hands of butter….
I have never understood those that have ever rated him, as he never has and never will even manage his prime function at tighthead and that is to scrum half decently.
In my mind if its a toss up between the DuP bros and John Smit… there is absolutely no debate at all
16 Mar 2010, 07:41 am
I wouldn’t be at all sorry to see both palooka brothers leave.
John Smit would probably agree with that sentiment and his game would improve overnight.
Just think how many yellow cards The Sharks would save on…
16 Mar 2010, 07:58 am
@Bod: He had a very good squad at the Force last year and the year before. A backline of Valentine, Giteau, Mitchell, O’Connor, Cross, Staniforth, Shephard (when not injured), and a forward back which included Sharpe, Pocock, Brown, Hodgson and a couple of others.
His squad at the Force has not been as weak as is often suggested, and he has not been able to instil a toughness in the team.
Some of his decisions this year have also been horrible, such as not selecting Staniforth at 12 when O’Connor started his first game at 10, allowing the set pieces to disintegrate etc.
Giving a coach a good squad is not a reflection of his abilites, seeing how he develops and grows a squad, or the decisions he makes within limited resources shows what type of coach he his.
Ask your average Kiwi what he thinks of Mitchell – it will not be positive.
16 Mar 2010, 07:58 am
@Transformation:
israel dagg, What a player. He glides like cullen.
16 Mar 2010, 07:59 am
sad to see the sharks in such disarray…
16 Mar 2010, 08:00 am
@Predawn: More like the House of Joy after the Boks won there.
16 Mar 2010, 08:06 am
Israel Dagg new All Black full back????
16 Mar 2010, 08:16 am
@WOLFMAN21:
I base my statement on the fact that when he took started with the Force it was a brand new franchise with no history, no culture, no player base, no junior structures and a brand new spaghetti bolognaise player base. They started slowly, but playing to a rigid structure within their limitations, culminating in a fairly decent showing last year given the circumstances.
The main reason he got the bullet as the Kiwi coach, was his inability to win a world cup. That was in the days when the average kiwi supporter actually believed they could win a world cup! Today they know they will never win a world cup and all they are concerned about in is theit No 1 ranking and thumping all and sundry between world cups… something John Mitchell was able to guarantee
16 Mar 2010, 08:51 am
Ok! nou moet die Dup boeties seker weer Kaap toe trek en dan begin die res van ons vertel van watse K@kke hulle eintlik was, hulle pa is ‘n drol en hulle ooms nie ver agter. Dan die gewraakte een, toe Bismark een aand na ‘n bok game, ‘n glas Wellingtons&Coke op sy Boktrui gemors het. NEE HULLE MOET LAND UIT!!!
16 Mar 2010, 08:52 am
Is Jannie Dup for real? He knocks on and turns around and blames Kockott!
This guy is the biggest liability to the team and still wants to mouth off? Unbelieveable.
16 Mar 2010, 08:53 am
@iori Yagami: Mills and Corey Jane need to worry. Dagg is looking the business.
16 Mar 2010, 09:00 am
Bloody gutless journalists need to ask 1 question……
What was the original deal when Smit returned from Clermont related to a time frame?
Perhaps instead of knee jerking and attacking the Du Plessis brothers one would get an understanding of their frustration.
Smit as opposed to Bissy….?
Madness i tell you, sentimental candy floss for brains drivel. Bissy ten times the player Smit is….no matter how you slice and dice it….
And dont start with the great leadership harp playing cry me a river nonsense. Smit has not won a meaningful game for how many now??
2 sides to a story, its the useless saffa journalists crucifying the du plessis brothers….
16 Mar 2010, 09:09 am
@BESTER: No please! We don’t want them in the Cape. My sources in the Freestate tell me that they were the same disruptive force there before their move east. Bismarck has become too big for his boots and should be replaced by Gary Botha and Tiaan Liebenberg in the Bok setup. Jannie can be replaced by Lawrence Sephaka or Brian Mujati for all I care – he is useless
16 Mar 2010, 09:12 am
@rossoneri: Do you support AC Milan?
16 Mar 2010, 09:12 am
@grant10:
Welcome back – it appears you have been redeemed, almost nobody disagrees with your (once very unpopular!) point of view any longer that there are problems with the Bok front row at the Sharks
16 Mar 2010, 09:17 am
@WP Till I Die: A blind man saw what was happenning before Grant.
Obvious is not the word…
16 Mar 2010, 09:19 am
@WP_:
You seem to forget how many people thought he was smoking his socks? How he was lambasted for his opinion?
16 Mar 2010, 09:22 am
@WP Till I Die: hi….
well it was plain to see a year ago…..appears sentimentality and blindness a sickness closely linked.
I am petrified PDV is lead by the nose here WPTID….seriously scared of that…..the french will be a massive teat 12 june…we need to sort out that front row….if we do i will bet my car we retain WC….Spies will be a massive factor and a kingpin, but we need to give him a platform. We can be unstoppable come 2011…but need to be ruthless in our search for 1 st phase perfection.
Sharks dilemma and malaise is caused by a weak front row….that cancer has spread throughout….no backline will prosper with the pressure …and Kanko is suffering as a result….no wonder he plays at wing most the game.
Everyone looking for blame, Kockitt, ruan, adi, kanko, all getting nailed. Bissy i see also taking flack, Bissy and his boet now being branded as the cancer in the team….
Its all nonsense my man….there scrums are a mess….and no one will convince me that this is not the primary cause of the demise of the great team.
My frustration is i saw this coming like a train down the tracks….but everyone wants to accomodate Smit….and now my 2 nd best team suffering the consequences…..
said it before…..this is not tiddlywinks.
16 Mar 2010, 09:24 am
@WP_: 34
Maybe you saw it….but how many times didnt you call me names for saying it?
Seems we all clever after the fact hey?
16 Mar 2010, 09:25 am
@WP Till I Die: He’s only ever had a go at Smit not the “problems with the Bok front row” like you said.
From the beggining it was clear that Smit is not as comfortable at three, and that his best position is 2. That is clear to see.
“people thought he was smoking his socks” and some still do by the way he goes on about how “kak” Smit is and how he should retire and how useless he is. When really he’s just playing out of position…
16 Mar 2010, 09:28 am
@grant10: Depends what you call “it”…
Seems you want to seem clever after the fact…
I’ve said Smit’s best position is 2 all along and you know that.
It’s just you that spews all this drivel about Smit being kak and how he should have retired already. Your personal vendetta against Smit has driven your criticsm the whole way..
16 Mar 2010, 09:33 am
@grant10: here we go again grant10 shouting his mouth over the same **** after the blod has been reasonably peaceful this last week…
one question grant…Schalk should definately be out the stormers team? has been, waste of time…
and my reference was after the highlanders game
16 Mar 2010, 09:34 am
@grant10: Just to confirm your point. Derick Kuun played no 2 for Bulls and G Steenkamp got screwed. The latter looks a different player since Gary Botha’s return to the Bulls. WP frontrow looks ten times better since Liebenberg’s move to the Cape. Kuun, Schalk Britz and Bismarck are great players – they are extra loose forwards, but they lack the bulk at scrum time. It has become increasingly clear to me that you need a hooker who can scrum and do his thing in the loose. Gary Botha and Tiaan Liebenberg can do this and when you add Strauss of the Cheetahs you have three hookers who will never take a backward step in any phase of play. I say select the three of them, make Matfield skipper and get it over and done with – the sooner the better. There is no place for Chilliboy in this set-up because he does not deserve to be there. He has not played a full rugby match at a decent level for years and has become a liability. He has to prove himself through the ranks and if he is the kind of player that everyone says he is, he will undoubtedly prove it
16 Mar 2010, 09:36 am
@Seven: schalk has been very impressive….no doubt the new law interpratation has suited him….he has been playing very well…i am very happy for his turnaround….he seems to have embraced the captaincy as well….
i would be careful of selecting him at openside….i feel steggmann should have that role in Brussows absence….but as a squad bok player…i feel Schalk is right back in the mix…on merit.
16 Mar 2010, 09:38 am
Seems like the du plessis bros are more trouble than they are worth maybe we can swap them for grand steyn, I’ll throw in my loslyf collection to sweeten the deal…
16 Mar 2010, 09:38 am
@grant10: Sharks backline wouldn’t propser if they were guaranteed the ball for 15 phases…the centres are kak, jacobs included and ndgugane has the pase of a donkey
16 Mar 2010, 09:40 am
@GI POT: 41
You make sense. Problem with the sharks and bok front row is that Beat is a good loosehead, but not a great scrummager….
Bissy has often been criticised for a poor upright scrumming technique….
now throw in a obviously weak 3 in smit and the problems are exponentially exposed.
Boks must decide asap….currently i would still lean towards Bissy at2….but Liebenberg and Botha are right up there imo….
16 Mar 2010, 09:42 am
@grant10: Thats cause Dissy is a weak scrummager. Not the strongest around by far
16 Mar 2010, 09:42 am
@Seven: 44
Yes….but i promise you….they will not come right on the back foot….and as long as the sharks concede this phase they will continue to struggle at the back….
This nonsense that the scrums are any less important is such drivel….the physcho effect of turbo reverse ball is hugely negative.
16 Mar 2010, 09:44 am
@WP_: 46
See my 45
But that is why you cannot have a weak 3 with Bissy and beast in the mix….its just not going to work.
16 Mar 2010, 09:44 am
anyway….cheers all
outta here
16 Mar 2010, 09:44 am
@WP_: Bissy
16 Mar 2010, 09:45 am
@grant10: I replied to it.
16 Mar 2010, 09:46 am
@grant10: im just pointing out that 3 weeks agao you were saying schalk is done, and should be replace by pieter myburgh or louw?
I mean WTF?!!!
just drop your constant whining and attempt to have a little forsight.
your point on the scrums affecting the team are valid, but your constant gripe against smit is losing tthe true value of your argument of having a solid scrum.
Smit is battling at 3, hell it was an attempted move to accomadote both of them, and 1 and half years later perhaps has not worked.
John has value to the team, and bismark has discipline issues, and despite what Daniel(i should be playing vodacom cup) says there is trouble between bismark and jannie, and smit (perhaps evident in the dup brothers throwing their toys or jannie snubbing smit during the subsitution when smit was tring to give advice or knowledge of the game.
Jannie offers very little and the disrespect he is showing to the team and captain should ensue he is on the transfer list or at least dropped.
He would probabaly be gone, if it wasn’t for Bismark, as apparently the 2 are a prize package nowadays, and this is speculation.
16 Mar 2010, 09:50 am
yeah Grant…
I haven’t always agreed with you… agreed with you about the No3 issue… but I thought Smit should stay there for his leadership abilities… sadly his attitude on the field has left a lot to be desired… and I can no longer say he should be there because of his leadership skills… they’ve been sadly lacking…
so… enjoy the sweet taste of vindication…
you’ve been spot on from the get-go… and said so despite taking tons of abuse…
kudos…
16 Mar 2010, 09:53 am
@grant10: You are right JS is kak he should have retired long time ago. He clames that he should be pick as player first then as a captain, but recently his been picked because of his captaincy, he would be lying to himself if he thinks other wise. On this site I have heard people saying that he is the only captain South Africa has. That is bull dust what about Victor, he was captain of the boks when they won in New Zealand in 2008.
16 Mar 2010, 09:57 am
@Seven: I say that Bismarck is a bit of a loose canon on the field that can very easily cost us the WC. He is often yellow carded for off the ball stuff as well as poor discipline in general. Add to that the fact that we will need a solid scrum in the knock out phases when games become very tight and he is suddenly not a very attractive prospect. I would far rather have Gary Botha in the front row – a man with experience and a cool head. John Smit cannot rally the spluttering Sharks to a win in five tight matches, so you have to ask yourself if his leadership is not overrated. I agree with Keegan Daniel that this would not have been an issue had they won those games, but the fact is they lost them and it is an issue. We need to start judging JS on his performances as a player against the performances of other players in his position and, imho, he is not amongst the best three no 2′s and not even amongst the top 10 3′s. The powers that be need to make a decision and make it now. Come out in public and say that JS is our WC skipper and shut the whole lot of us up, or drop him now for a better player
16 Mar 2010, 09:59 am
@Kondi: Clearly you know fkall about rugby!
Victor has never captained the Boks well… 08 Tri Nations?
JS is anything but kak, he’s the strongest scrummaging 2 in the country…
And “He claims” nothing dickwod
16 Mar 2010, 10:00 am
@grant10: #30
hey Grant, good to see you back, to answer your question in post 30
Smitty relishing new role
John Smit doesn’t view the move from hooker to tighthead as a demotion but as an opportunity to strengthen the Springbok side.
The form of hooker Bismarck du Plessis in 2008 has sparked a massive debate in South African rugby circles. Does Smit deserve to be included in the starting side on merit, or is he being retained for his leadership?
Coach Peter de Villiers announced this past Saturday that Smit will be moving to tighthead for the Boks. The move will allow the inclusion of the Bok skipper and the country’s form hooker in the starting front row.
Smit, who hasn’t represented the Boks since the Tri-Nations Test in Wellington due to injury, said the move was made purely for the sake of team dynamics.
“It’s not about surrendering a position. Bismarck is going to be the best hooker in the world, and I want to do everything I can to ensure this team is the best it can be. If that means I have to be the baggage boy or play tighthead, then so be it,” he said.
Smit is no stranger to the prop position, and his move away from hooker was not entirely unexpected. However, the move to No 3 was a bit of surprise given the quality of South African tightheads playing in this country and abroad. Smit has played a lot of rugby at loosehead, and it is here most critics expected him to settle.
“In the English-speaking schools, they line you up and the fat boys are picked to play prop. So from Under 11 through to Under 21 I played there. The challenge for me now is making the change from hooker to prop at the highest level.
“I’m fortunate that we had something of a tighthead crisis when I was playing for Clermont in France, so I had to play a few games in that position. I’m really looking forward to coming full circle in playing that position for my country.
“I feeling refreshed after that time off [due to a groin injury]. It’s like my season only began in October.”
The Boks face Wales in Cardiff on 8 November, a team that troubled the South African scrum when they toured in June. Smit believes he’ll be adequately prepared by next week’s game having already spent a lot of time practicing in the position.
“I’ve been working with Balie Swart for a number of years, and I also did a lot of work in the position up in France.
“BJ [Botha] also texts me every now and then telling me to get into the ‘V’, but I’ll have to be wary of the referee,” he quipped.
The Bok skipper said the tourists will be taking nothing for granted in the first fixture, and expects it to be a typical battle up front.
“It is going to be difficult over there. There’s a lot of emphasis on the tight five, and it’s not that they have to work a lot harder, but they have to work a little differently.
“Wales will be a tough one first up if the form of the Ospreys is anything to go by. I know it’s a cliche, but it’s going to come down to our physicality in all of these games.
“We don’t know exactly what to expect from England but they should have a massive pack and a strong scrummaging tight five. Fortunately that is the last game of an intense tour, so we will have more time to prepare for that.”
By Jon Cardinelli
This entry was posted on Wednesday, October 29th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
1. Kerneels :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Oh Captain My Captain…
2. Pietman :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Hmmm, relishing it is only one way of looking at it.
3. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
WTF???
picture..Woodcock againsst Smit..
this joke??
BJ textx you an dtel u you are sh*t prop??
4. Tbozknows :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I remember when Smit played Prop for Pretoria Boys. That was a long time ago!!! 1995. They thrashed our boys but he had a good game. That said he is an important leader to SA. He knows how to handle the refs.. You so need that at international level.
5. Kerneels :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Who will be throwing in at the line-outs?
6. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
fcking stupid move especiially in NH..wher Sheriden wil bend Smit like little boyt
7. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
#4 Tbozknows:
leader yes..but overrated playerr.
this is BS
8. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
PDV haas no repect for front roow play
9. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
BS
10. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Sheriden is smilingg
11. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
“We don’t know exactly what to expect from England but they should have a massive pack and a strong scrummaging tight five. Fortunately that is the last game of an intense tour, so we will have more time to prepare for that.”
state the obviuous
12. Pietman :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
#10 greatest13gerber:
Ons soek vir Domkrag nou….
13. wernergreeff fanclub membership 3 :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
I can remember when Keo was very critical of the provincial unions for not offering him a contract. According to him they were disrespectful.
Well, what respect is there for the Bok captain in this move?
Where is the criticism of PdV & the selectors.
14. wernergreeff fanclub membership 3 :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
#12 Pietman: Ons soek vir Hempies nou
15. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Pietman,
thiis is unbelievible call by PDV. Ther is shades of Franscois Pienaar here..good captain but averrage player. Tiaan Strauss was good leader, good playerr
SMit is on field becausse he is good leader..nothing more..
16. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
pick best in position firsst??
theen from this pick capatin
17. greatest13gerber :
October 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
#14 wernergreeff fanclub membership 3:
u forget Greeff was one seasonn wonder
18. wernergreeff fanclub membership 3 :
October 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
#17 greatest13gerber: Well, at least he had 1 season
19. Pietman :
October 29th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
#14 wernergreeff fanclub membership 3:
Of vir Henning van Aswegen, Keith Andrews of oorlede Tommie….
Hel, ek verlang glad na Eddie Andrews nou!
20. Pietman :
October 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
#17 greatest13gerber:
Werner was good, always gave 110%, plagued by injuries, but a good warrior, Werner was.
16 Mar 2010, 10:01 am
@GI POT: Agreed Bissy is a loose cannon
I wouldnt mind if JS played at 2 and then we had Tiaan Liebenberg or Gary Botha to come off the bench at the RWC next year…
16 Mar 2010, 10:05 am
Sharks just gotta keep going and ignore the idiots.
John Smit is a great player and a legend, he’s trimmed down and is playing hard every game. He’s had detractors his entire career and shoved a carrot right up their *** for most of it and will no doubt continue to do so.
Unfortunately we have idiots in south african sport, these fools are so fickle that they go bananas at the first sign of trouble – they dont know what they are doing. We have a wonderful set of players combing youth and experience that could very well win the next world cup.
The Sharks nearly won against a very good Brumbies team away from home first up and they have a good squad. There is nothing wrong with their frontrow, its their backline thats a bit of a problem.
16 Mar 2010, 10:07 am
@cab: Well said.
See Grant,you are one such idiot…
16 Mar 2010, 10:08 am
@GI POT: @WP_: John Smit should captain the boks to the 2011 as a hooker.
Bismarck is on the bench.
Tighthead is BJ Botha, Jannie is not even in the squad.
John Smit is one of strongest scrummaging hookers SA has seen, and his leadership should not be questioned as he has proved it time and time again. When he has been off the field, the Boks have looked a shadow of a team and little bit lost.
Gary Botha – solid and experience but offers nothing to displace Bismarck or to ensure that Bismarck is discarded.
Bismarck – needs an attitude adjusmtnet and needs to be hungry. He still has a long career post 2011.
My Bok Team to be the first to retain the trophy in NZ;
Beast
Smit
Botha
Botha
Matfield
Schalk
Juan
Spies
Du Preez
Steyn
Habana
De villiers
Fourie
Pieterson JP
Steyn
Reserves are plenty however that needs to be our starting 15 as plenty of players can perform patch works.
16 Mar 2010, 10:10 am
got 10 minutes….so heres my take
Top 3 s ….BJ….CJ…Werner Kruger…brock….wp nel….[ i wont include smit here, seriously i just cannot see him as a 3 ]
Hookers….Bissy [ he will flourish next to bj imo....] G Botha….t liebenberg….A Strauss….Smit…
I agree with WP….smit can, if he gets fit , fight his way back into the reckoing….i just wonder if he has the energy and desire…after all , he has climbed Everest before….where is the motivation??
16 Mar 2010, 10:12 am
now i am late…cheers
Cab…you soft sentimental old man….
16 Mar 2010, 10:13 am
@grant10: He will be motivated to be the first captain to retain old Bill and end his career on a high I can assure you…
16 Mar 2010, 10:20 am
As the man himself said, first he wasn’t as strong as Lukas van Biljon, then he wasn’t as quick around the park as Gary Botha, then he didn’t sidestep as well as Schalk Brits and now he is not as ‘good’ as Bismarck (pick your reason)…
The great man survived all of the above, why should this be any different. He has had his detractors throughout his whole career – yet despite their bitching and bleating he is still the incumbent Bok captain.
16 Mar 2010, 10:23 am
@Kerneels: Exactly!
He has survived it all, Bismarck is no match..
16 Mar 2010, 10:24 am
Tiaam liebenberg and Strauss are now better hookers than smit…
lmfao…
The more things change the more they stay the same..
16 Mar 2010, 10:47 am
@cab:
Hey cab
Long time no hear. Comment allez vous aujourd ‘hui? You still in France?
Always the rational mind. John Smit has been trashed before… many a time… by those not in the know. Watch this space…
16 Mar 2010, 10:52 am
@grant10: amzing, but u would of had smit on the bench before your absence and then he wouldnt of been in your side or top 5 in each poisition before that.
your inconsistent
16 Mar 2010, 10:54 am
Smit will captain us to retain the trophy, any comments on the team above?
16 Mar 2010, 10:58 am
What blows me away is that the very same people who want the strongest scrum (and therefore don’t want barney to play at 3) don’t want our stongest scrummaging hooker (and the best lineout thrower ) to then play at 2.
Strange … or is it?
16 Mar 2010, 11:00 am
@gunther: Beats me as well…
16 Mar 2010, 11:00 am
@Seven: Not too sure about JP.. the rest looks about right…
16 Mar 2010, 11:05 am
grant u r on ur own crusade dude
16 Mar 2010, 11:05 am
My Bok squad to play in this years Tri Nations….
15. Zane Kirschner.
14. Ryan Kankowski.
13. Jacques Fourie.
12. Wynand Olivier.
11. Bryan Habana.
10. Morne’ Steyn.
9. Fourie DuPreez.
8. Pierre Spies.
7. Juan Smith.
6. Schalk Burger.
5. Victor Matfield.
4. Bakkies Botha / Andries Bekker.
3. Brendan Botha.
2. John Smit (c).
1. C.J. VanDerLinde.
16. Beast Mtawarira.
17. Bismark DuPlessis.
18. Andries Bekker / Danie Roussow.
19. Jean Deysel.
20. Ruan Pienaar.
21. Peter Grant.
22. Joe Pieterson.
16 Mar 2010, 11:08 am
Smit must just move back to 2 even if he is not captain. He still offers more value than any other no 2 in the country.
16 Mar 2010, 11:11 am
@Karma-zaf: What has Deysel done for the Sharks coming off the bench so far…there’s a coupla loosies ahead of him imo…
16 Mar 2010, 11:14 am
My Bok squad to play in the end of year tour…..
15. Zane Kirschner.
14. Ryan Kankowski.
13. Juan DeJongh.
12. Wynand Olivier.
11. J.P. Pieterson.
10. Peter Grant.
9. Ruan Pienaar.
8. Willem Alberts.
7. Jean Deysel.
6. Dewald Potgieter.
5. Andries Bekker.
4. Danie Roussow.
3. Brendan Botha.
2. Bismark DuPlessis.
1. Beast Mtawarira.
16. Gurthro Steenkamp.
17. Gary Botha.
18. Jandre Kruger.
19. Deon Stegman.
20. Jano Vermaak.
21. Meyer Bosman.
22. Joe Pieterson.
16 Mar 2010, 11:16 am
@Seven: Nobody can argue with that team. JDV and Fransie are unknown quantities at this stage because we do not see them play against quality opposition in conditions that suit the type of rugby that we will play in NZ in 2011. I agree with Storm that JP is also a concern – we need to have a good look at Mapoe – he impresses me every time, but has to play at wing and not in the centre. Bismarck needs a good talking to for his attitude to change. Players to be given opportunities to possibly replace/understudy JDV and F Steyn are W Olivier and Joe Peterson. I guess the point is that we have a great team and a great chance of retaining the WC
16 Mar 2010, 11:25 am
@WP_: Its clear to me that you haven’t read his book. even when he came back from France he stated that he should be chosen only if he is good enough and he isn’t good enough.Bismark is stronger, faster and a better scrum option then JS, their is no base for your argument. You just one of those JS **** suckers who don’t want to admit that your homosexual fantasy boy has past his sell by date.
16 Mar 2010, 11:26 am
@gunther: 71
G
You have a good point there….i concede that.
If i was Bok coach and had the likes of Brussow and Spies [hope brussow will be back by then ] i may very well build a game plan around scrum dominance so as to free up the destructive ball carriers….and smit would be a great choice at 2 in that scenario….if he is in shape and fully fit.
In fact if Beast were unavailable due to the citizenship issue i would consider starting with Guthro, who really has performed admirably since the beating he took on eoyt….
a front row of Guthro….smit and bj/ cj would pose some real questions in the primary phases….and i relish seeing a bok team unleashing Spies ,Juan Smith and Brussow on the front foot. A bok backline getting good ball will be something special as well….
As for me having smit so far back on the 2 list G….purely because he is being shunted between the 2 positions.
I cannot understand the sharks approach at all….instead of saying we have the worlds 2 x best hookers…lets use it as a strength, theu have managed to turn it into a huge negative….pretty stuid man management.
And plum is not stupid!
That is why i believe PDV is still going to commit the cardinal error and persist with Smit at 3…..i am sure he is having a say and forcing plums hand to play smit at 3…
16 Mar 2010, 11:27 am
@Karma-zaf: I would put a virus like JS in my team, it will cause problems.
16 Mar 2010, 11:29 am
@Bod:
hello Bod, nice to see you around, your team is playing exceptionally well this year, and Burger is back to his best. Becker in outstanding form. Should be very interesting against FS next week who are also looking good. Bulls looking awesomemy strong, lets see if can continue away from the melktert. As for my Lions, they need to skiet the arme dier…bliksem that nightmare is getting worse and worse.
16 Mar 2010, 11:31 am
Its time to get rid of Jannie kannie scrumnie for once and for all. This fat lumbering oke brings no value to the team and he’s a liability on the field. His handling skills are hondkak. He had a shocker on Sat and to blame Kockett for that illustrates his petty mentality. He should concentrate on being a doctor and retire from rugby. I hope he’s a better doctor than rugby player. SA needs good doctors. I don’t see any value of keeping either Du Plessis. Can someone get them on the first plane to France and do us all a favour. Hopefully they’ll both be gone next year.
16 Mar 2010, 11:32 am
@Karma-zaf: I wouldn’t put a virus like JS in my team, it will cause problems. He is kak plain and simple
16 Mar 2010, 11:39 am
I have no idea how true this is but I heard that Bismarck had it put in his contract that he will sign for the Sharks if Jannie can go to, so apparently that’s the reason the Sharks signed Jannie as well.
And the other thing I heard is that there are 3 groups, the Du Plessis gang the guy’s on Smit side and the Plumtree faithfull.
I just heard all this, have no idea if there is any truth in any of it.
16 Mar 2010, 11:39 am
@KZN King Shark: That is such an ignorant comment. The Du Plessis brother are about the only thing that the sharks have going for them. The Sharks should get rid of John ‘virus’ Smit.
16 Mar 2010, 11:40 am
Yes I agree with those bloggers that know John Smit is an intergral part of The Sharks and Boks team.
The rest of you know vokkol.
16 Mar 2010, 11:40 am
Hope they Du Plessis bros sign for the Rebels.
16 Mar 2010, 11:41 am
@cab:
I know your heart is broken.
Its time to do the honourable deed and follow in the footsteps of katman… purchase yourself a Stormers jersey.
I promise you the pain will subside
16 Mar 2010, 11:47 am
@Bod:
hehe, never a bad thing when WP do well.
Smit is a very rare animal, a player who does not get ahead of himself and very much knows his own limits, he is not a big deal or a big head, despite accomplishing a moer of alot. He is the personification of tenacity and not giving up, you think a few words from a few fools are going to put him off, think again.
16 Mar 2010, 11:47 am
Kerneels’ team of the S14 so far…
1. Gurthrö Steenkamp
2. Andrew Hore
3. Owen Franks
4. Josh Bekhuis
5. Andries Bekker
6. Deon Stegman
7. Rocky Elsom
8. Pierre Spies
9. Will Genia
10. Morne Steyn
11. Drew Mitchell
12. Wynand Olivier
13. Richard Kahui
14. Digby Ioane
15. Israel Dagg
A lot of honorable mentions including Ben Robinson, Stephen More, Pieter Louw, Thomas Waldrom, Quade Cooper, Corey Jane, Flip vd Merwe, The Yank and Robbie Fruean.
16 Mar 2010, 11:53 am
This info is spot-on! Keegan is the one talking bullshit! There is a split and it is The Bros v Smit. I’ve been dealing with Bissie the last 3 years in my line of work and I’ll tell yous this much: This ouke is nasty! They are working as an item to get rid of Smit. It’s all true!
16 Mar 2010, 11:54 am
@Kerneels: That is excellent team, pick on form not reputation.
16 Mar 2010, 11:54 am
It’s unfortunate that the brothers are seen as a bit of a double act. Jannie is possibly the luckiest player to ever wear the green and gold but Bismarck is (apart from his tendency to give away stupid penalties) top class.
16 Mar 2010, 11:56 am
Bismarck is an exceptional player, but the sharks were doing much better before he and his boet arrived, so best he keeps that in mind, and if there is one player that should go its jannie, who def should be nowhere near the Bok squad, if Bismarck wants to go down with him, thats his problem.
He is a great player, but no-one is irreplaceable especially a young hotshot hothead whose still earning his stripes.
16 Mar 2010, 11:56 am
@springboktours:
see my comment 30
There is 2 sides to a story.
16 Mar 2010, 11:58 am
@Bod: You talk more kak than Julias. I only bought the stormers jersey because it was cheaper than 2-ply bogroll.
16 Mar 2010, 11:59 am
Well, in the interests of consistancy, and Grant 10 is nothing if not consistant, we need to acknowledge that John Smit has been a scumming failure at 3. If PDV persists with him at 3 it is in spite of his “turbo reverse” as Grant likes to say. It will be because PDV wants Bissie in the team, plain and simple. PDV would not move JS from 2 for any other player. No Siree. So then we have to ask: Does Bismark offer the same as he always has? I’d say not. He may improve his form but whilst I really enjoy watching him plunder and pillage on the field like the juggernaught he is, I haven’t seen as much of that lately, what I have seen is his ill discipline and lack of real impact.
So bottom line, I’d keep JS at 2 (I’m as consistant a supportyer of JS at 2 as G10 is a detractor of his abilities at 3) with either Bissie on the bench, or alternatively Tiaan (who is definately on form) or Strauss.
Just because the Sharks are struggling at the moment (key word being MOMENT) is no reason to throw away John Smit.
The time will come for him to retire but not yet
16 Mar 2010, 12:02 pm
@katman: You would do far better using a Lions jersey on yr fatass..!!
16 Mar 2010, 12:02 pm
Bismark vs smit
Scrum
Bismark average Smit excellent
Lineouts
Bismark good but doesn’t seem to throw to the back very often which denies us a good attacking opportunity
Smit better than Bismark
Ball carrier
Bismark too upright often loses the ball in contact also gets isolated often..
Smit stronger ball carrier..
Tackling
Honours even here although Bismark has an uncanny ability to turn ball over so he shades this one..
Discipline
Do we even have to ask?
Therefore barney sinks bismarks battleship..
In terms of smitties conditioning I think it has been handled appallingly, the guy played more rugby than anybody else last year and is now playing every minute of the super 14..
Pdv needs to grow a pair step in and put barney on a conditioning plan that puts barney in peak condition for the internations..then play him off the wood for the last thirty of the last couple of super 14 games..and if bismark doesn’t like it he can piss off and take his walking penalty of a brother with him..
16 Mar 2010, 12:04 pm
@grant10:
Apparently there was no deal with Bissie or Smit when Smit returned.
You can’t guarantee spots or positions. Not for anyone.
Maybe Bissie does feel usurped but that is not the point
If the Dups are being vindictive then it depends whether Smit is being divisive too.
No player, no matter who he is can be allowed to deliberately undermine the team, captain or coach. It just aint acceptable.
If the Dups are undermining Smit and Smit is keeping his nose clean then the Dups need to be disciplined.
If Smit is retaliating then Smit needs to be disciplined too.
It is not relevant whether you think that Bissie is better than Smit. The coach values Smit and that’s that. Even if he is wrong you cannot undermine the team. No matter what.
Of course it may all be nonsense
16 Mar 2010, 12:08 pm
@cab:
Its actually not even worth debating the topic.
One just needs to analyse the quality of the “those for” bloggers against the “those against” on this site in order to gain a clear understanding of the issue
16 Mar 2010, 12:09 pm
@gunther: 100
Yip….
you spot on …..I would of rested Smit for the first 6 games of super 14….strict conditioning programme to get in shape for 2 …..then unleashed a rested and hungry smit.
I cannot believe how poorly Smit has been managed…..bloody disgrace actually.
16 Mar 2010, 12:09 pm
jannie hasn’t recovered from the smash leicester tigers gave them! He has now gone all aggro, starting from that warm up match at newlands, the trip in the tahs match & lastly knocking on & screaming at rory, with bismarck furious in the background slamming the ball on the pitch. These brothers seem to be a law unto themselves…..
16 Mar 2010, 12:10 pm
@Biscuit: 101
I also know some stuff ….but not on this forum.
All i am saying deals were made…and broken. That is a fact.
16 Mar 2010, 12:11 pm
its very simple, when a player starts to strongarm a coach or the team, get rid of him, no-one needs big mouths, these guys will never the real strength of a player like Smit, which is to put the team before himself.
and to be quite honest, rather get some loyal sharks talent in there like Burden who plays like a man possessed coming on the field, rather than some merceneraries, however good they may think they are.
rule no 1 get shot of the bigmouth strongarmers and watch the team turnaround – they will never get rugby’s greatest strength.
16 Mar 2010, 12:11 pm
@Transformation: The brothers Grimm
16 Mar 2010, 12:12 pm
regretfully the dup brothers will leave…..
Bissy will be missed….still a helleva player.
16 Mar 2010, 12:13 pm
promises made ….in the heat of the night….
Always burns you down the line…
16 Mar 2010, 12:13 pm
@katman:
The excuses keep rolling in. You can fool a lot of people, but you cant fool me…. hell, I even know that you purchased katman jnr a Stormers jumper the other day.
Nows thats going to be sight to behold… snr and jnr together in the Danie Craven stand clothed in their Stormers jumpers
16 Mar 2010, 12:13 pm
@grant10: ..but not worth the disruption…no player is..imo…
16 Mar 2010, 12:15 pm
@Bod:
16 Mar 2010, 12:15 pm
@grant10: Bissy not worth the current yellow cards and penalties he’s currently giving away.
Let him go mock punch at another franchise
16 Mar 2010, 12:15 pm
what the sharks and boks need is BJ not Jannie.
Pay some top dollar for a sharks legend who is still the best scrumming TH in SA and they go back to the top.
16 Mar 2010, 12:18 pm
Do the DUP brothers really think they are that intimidating? They’re walking penalties; and everybody seems to realise this except them. Bismarck being outplayed by every hooker in the competition, and Jannie never had any real talent to write home about anyways.
16 Mar 2010, 12:18 pm
i believe the Sharks can turn it around with their current talent, even old Andy Goode is not a bad stopgap measure at all, considering their ill fortune.
But there must be buy in from Bismarck, otherwise let him go back to the FS or wherever the hell he wants to go. The last thing they need is disloyalty at these times. Burden wont make a bad option at all.
16 Mar 2010, 12:18 pm
@cab: 114
Hell….we agree….why we been fighting for a year when we agree all along!!
16 Mar 2010, 12:19 pm
Smit back at 2 for the Boks and Sharks and Tiaan Liebenberg 2nd choise 2 for Boks, and drop Bissie from the Bok squad.
16 Mar 2010, 12:20 pm
it is plain to see the obvious division in the camp….
My concern is this kak spills over into the Bok arena….
16 Mar 2010, 12:22 pm
@grant10:
I also know some stuff that is at odds with what you imply.
They kept Bissie on board and kept him warm.
It is possible that stuff got said that allowed Bissie to infer a promise.
Was it really a promise or an intent? Was Smit part of the same discussion?
W/o knowing *exactly* what got said (and not just Bissies version) how can we really know?
But all irrelevant. Even if a deal is being broken then it is being broken by Plum and not Smit.
It cannot justify divisive behaviour.
16 Mar 2010, 12:23 pm
Cant see the Sharks doing any better than the last two spots on the log…
Who’s CHOKING now eh Sharks.
16 Mar 2010, 12:25 pm
@grant10:
Smit is doing fine at 3, but he probably is a better hooker, however everyone made space for Bismarck because he is rightfully very good, but its bismarck who does not recognise the sacrifice made – i can tell you right now JW would still be picking JS ahead of Bismarck at 2. smit only moved to 3 cos its what seemed to suit the team and that was proven exactly right with the most successful bok year in 2009 since readmission. smit has always said he is willing to play anywhere, including from off the bench if it will help the team (and this is where i think he should be playing or resting up for 2011, since he can cover all frontrow positions and close out games).
16 Mar 2010, 12:26 pm
@Biscuit: 120
I accept that it should not be an issue between Smit and Bissy…..but human nature is not prefect….
Bottom line is Bissy feels he is a better 2 than smit
and jannie feels he is a better 3 than smit.
Dup bros believe smit has shafted them bynot leaving / retiring after 2009.
And also believe that sharks have shafted them by allowing smit a new contract.
What should be a strength has become an unmitigated disaster…..
not sure what will happen going forward….but i hear its irreconcilable…
so that means Dup bros will go….rebels or france….[ toulon ].
Interesting that Hayman also rumoured to be considering Toulon…..
16 Mar 2010, 12:30 pm
Promises shmomises
There is no contract in professional sport that guarantees someone a starting place..
If somebody whispered sweet nothings into bismarks ear that’s one thing ..
He is doing himself no favours with this bullsh1t and for somebody who already has a reputation for being difficult he should help himself to a large glass of shutthepfuckup or he might miss the plane to new zealand next year..
16 Mar 2010, 12:32 pm
@cab: 123
I disagree with your contention that he is doing fine at 3 cab….sorry but thats simply not true….he is being drilled at 3…i saw the preseason against W Force…he was done at scrum time…same vs Saders and Brumbies….so your contention he is fine at 3 is sentimental and devoid of substance.
As for 2…he can get back into contention…but needs to be managed properly.
I have said ad nauseum that the so called smit fans are his actual worst enemies….playing him out of position and into the ground does his WC 2011 ambitions no good imo.
I am not a smit disciple….but if i was i would have told smit to stand up and say ffs no more self sacrifice!
Time for smit to say its 2 or bust….and then do the hard yards to show he is indeed the best choice.
16 Mar 2010, 12:35 pm
@grant10:
its his first season in the position and he is not getting drilled at all. i have never seen any bok scrum stand up as well against andrew sheridan and the BL.
bok rugby has been getting drilled for several seasons now in the scrum. you lot are all shouting for a different young CC TH each week only to see them get drilled by teams in the S14.
your opinion is short sighted and rubbish and if it garners more popular uninformed support you will end up removing one of the cornerstone veterans that are essential to any RWC campaign, much as Os and Percy were for 2007.
16 Mar 2010, 12:38 pm
I can guarantee you there is no contract in pro sport that guarantees somebody a starting place..
As for smit promising to retire.. That smacks of accomodation something we are told should not happen to barney..
and as for jannie he is not better than smit at ANYTHING well except for maybe a prostate exam..
16 Mar 2010, 12:41 pm
@cab: 125
He is being done in the scrums cab….absolutely done….no doubt at all….everyone acknowledges this…its not a debate anymore. Accept that .
Smit can come back at 2….but needs to make that a target. Right now he is in a sort of twilight zone….not a 2 and never a 3….
No cab….i wont be removing anyone…..smit will be the one doing the removing…..i feel he may call it a day …
But , if not, he has to take responsibility. He needs to say no more being mucked about…..he is the bok skipper after all….
16 Mar 2010, 12:43 pm
Furthermore if bismark doesn’t help himself to a large glass of sitdownshuddupandwindyourneckin he may miss the plane to New Zealand next year..
which would be a shame..
16 Mar 2010, 12:44 pm
@gunther: it would be a shame…and a massive blow to boks hopes imo.
16 Mar 2010, 12:46 pm
Massive Smit fan but fok me he’s rubbish prop, plain and simple.
Its a shame really, becaue he’s a brilliant hooker (probs the best scrummaging and throwing hooker we have).
Come on John, lose 10kg and go back to 2.
16 Mar 2010, 12:48 pm
@grant10: was os du randt the best loosehead in the country going into the 2007 world cup?
16 Mar 2010, 12:48 pm
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): yes
My contention all along.
16 Mar 2010, 12:48 pm
@Transformation: Cant remember boet??
16 Mar 2010, 12:49 pm
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): That would put a smile on my face..
16 Mar 2010, 12:50 pm
@cab:
“its his first season in the position and he is not getting drilled at all”
WHAT?????
Did you not watch the EOY tour? Or this year Super 14?
Smit got nailed. The moment he went to 2 we ran with the Irish Scrum, and that’s half because he’s a brilliant scrummager at 2, not just because of BJ.
16 Mar 2010, 12:50 pm
@Transformation: 131
But with smit at 2 and cj at 3 i was always reasonably confident we wouldnt turbo reverse….not saying we would dominate….but also not getmangled….which was proven twice against the poms.
16 Mar 2010, 12:50 pm
Grant
I disagree I can name 10 other players in the bok side whose loss would be a bigger blow..
16 Mar 2010, 12:54 pm
Beast,Smit,BJ…..that would make me happy.
We wouldn’t murder people, but we would give most teams a rough time.
16 Mar 2010, 12:55 pm
@gunther: well summed up. I agree.
16 Mar 2010, 12:57 pm
Key players for the WC:
SMIT (AT 2 AND CAPTAIN).
MATFIELD
BAKKIES
BEKKER (WE NEED THE BACKUP)
SMITH
STEYN (MORNE AND FRANS).
HABANA
That’s our core.
16 Mar 2010, 13:01 pm
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark):
Add Fourie du Preez and Spies
16 Mar 2010, 13:03 pm
Morne Steyn probably the most valuable player at the moment…..
16 Mar 2010, 13:04 pm
Biscuit
Thank you
And de villiers..
16 Mar 2010, 13:05 pm
@grant10: Yep,I’d say the 9/10 combo both ..
16 Mar 2010, 13:13 pm
@Storm outta hell: 144
yes….give those 2 ball on the front foot….and we retain WC 2011.
16 Mar 2010, 13:14 pm
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): Plus JDV
16 Mar 2010, 13:15 pm
@Transformation: 131
Who was then if he wasnt?
16 Mar 2010, 13:19 pm
What do you guys think about this team to face Wales on 5 June.
No Bulls and Stormers because they will possibly be involved in a semi and final.
Overseas boks included.
1.CJ*
2.Smit (c)
3.BJ*
4.Sykes
5.Muller
6.Wikus van heerden*
7.Juan Smith
8.Big Joe*
9.Vermaak
10.Pienaar
11.Nokwe
12.Jean De Villiers*
13.Adi
14.JP
15.Frans Steyn*
16.Bismarck
17.Beast
18.Juandre Kruger*
19.Kanko
20.Claassens*
21.Bosman
22.Mapoe
* overseas based players
16 Mar 2010, 13:22 pm
i differ with your 1…5 and 10….
16 Mar 2010, 13:26 pm
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark): don’t worry, cab sees idiots everywhere…he didn’t watch the tri-nations & see robinson have his way with smit, it was all a figment of our imagination. He didn’t see the French mangle our scrum. He wasn’t watching when BJ left the field against Ireland & we got reversed. all these things do not mean anything, even Os lamenting that John must go back to 2 is nonsense, because Cab knows it all and everyone else is an idiot.
Hell, i remember when Os commented on our scrums, he was insulted and it was said that he has grown a big mouth, all because he dared criticise john.
16 Mar 2010, 13:26 pm
@grant10: Hey Grant remember me? You still staying in Camps Bay? Give me your alternatives.
16 Mar 2010, 13:28 pm
my team for wales….without stormers and bulls ….including overseas players
15 F Steyn
14 Jpp
11 mapoe
12 jdv
13adi
10 butch
9 m claasens
8 joe
7 wickus
6 luke
5 j kruger
4 sykes
3 bj
2 bissy
1 beast
16 smit
17 juan smith
18 w steenkamp
19 cj
20 vermaak
21 nokwe
22 e rose
16 Mar 2010, 13:29 pm
@iori Yagami: 151
Hi
yes…i am in Clifton now….apartment over 2 nd beach boet.
16 Mar 2010, 13:31 pm
@Transformation: 150
The worst for me was the mangling at the hands of the italians….then bj came on and we moered them pap!!!!
That was such a huge turnaround only the real idiots refuse to acknowledge that!
16 Mar 2010, 13:31 pm
@grant10: nice nice i like. How was it with carol over here?
16 Mar 2010, 13:36 pm
@iori Yagami: 155
Had a magic time….i took her to all the beaches and spots….she is on here now and then….i think she had a cool time!
I know her friend Jane fell in love with Camps Bay and clifon….very cool people…
16 Mar 2010, 13:40 pm
@grant10: Sounds like a blast! Well Done Mr. Tour Guide! But you got to admit its easy to promote Cape Town. I am working at City of Cape Town now doing an internship.
16 Mar 2010, 13:42 pm
@WP_: i asked the question?
16 Mar 2010, 13:43 pm
@iori Yagami: well done….may it go fantastically well for you…best city in the world…
anyway….some work to do….be cool
outta here
16 Mar 2010, 13:44 pm
From news24
SA rugby to get scrum factory
2010-03-15 23:08Email | Print
Os du Randt (Gallo Images)
Hendrik Cronjé
Bloemfontein – The South African Rugby Union (SARU) took its first step towards establishing a scrum factory in Johannesburg last week.
About 12 heavyweights, including Balie Swart, Os du Randt, Toks van der Linde, Robbie Kempson, Eddie Andrews and Dougie Heymans, will have the task of ensuring that South African teams start dominating in the scrums again like they did in years gone by.
South Africa’s poor scrumming on their tour of Europe at the end of last year led to the establishment of a group of scrumming coaches.
The South African teams are also not dominating in the same manner as before at Super 14 level and Springbok rugby has lost its trademark powerful scrum.
Os du Randt and Co already started planning the way forward for scrumming at SARU’s meeting.
It was decided that the former props would not only impart their knowledge to senior teams, but all the way down to under-11 level.
“The basic principles have to be written down. We will write a manual about scrumming so that South African rugby has uniform guidelines that can be used from primary school through to international level,” said Heymans.
Du Randt has previously spoken about the need for a national scrum factory.
However, SARU have now got the ball rolling under their manager of game development Hilton Adonis, who convened the meeting.
Former referees such as André Watson and Tappe Henning also attended the meeting in Johannesburg.
Watson had earlier called on Swart to give South African referees some guidance on the scrums.
16 Mar 2010, 13:45 pm
@grant10: Cool Grant enjoy the day further.
16 Mar 2010, 13:47 pm
Oragami
Are you really working for the city of cape town?
16 Mar 2010, 14:12 pm
So Smitty, whose the cancer in the team now?
16 Mar 2010, 14:13 pm
@grant10: Thats if Butch isnt on the operating table that day…
16 Mar 2010, 14:15 pm
@Transformation: Dont you have the answer?
My answer would be yes…
16 Mar 2010, 14:18 pm
xhosakid
The du pleaseme brothers..
16 Mar 2010, 14:36 pm
@grant10: Rose in a Bok team? He’ll look average in a Vodacom Cup team.
16 Mar 2010, 14:36 pm
@XhosaKid: #163 Bissie
16 Mar 2010, 14:43 pm
@Transformation:
no i dont know it all, but wanting smit to retire is absolutely idiotic.
stick to roundball or something u understand is all i am saying.
16 Mar 2010, 14:44 pm
@XhosaKid: Smit is more like HIV/AIDS there is a window period were you can’t detect that you have it until it turns up and kills all the white blood cells, which would be the Bissie, then your are left for dead.
16 Mar 2010, 14:46 pm
when smit raises back-to-back world cups you lot will still be decrying the greatest, even when the Truth is out there for all to see – damn fools aint never seen the x-files.
16 Mar 2010, 14:48 pm
@Kondi:
you seem to know an awful lot about the subject.
personal experience?
16 Mar 2010, 14:49 pm
@cab: With Smit in the team the Springboks won’t get a bronze medal, let alone win gold.
16 Mar 2010, 14:50 pm
@charo: What can I say, ihav hed a few run ins with your mother.
16 Mar 2010, 14:50 pm
@cab: 169
Cab….dont want to butt in here….
but i am sure a lot of bloggers who feel smit is not shaping do it from evidence of what they see week in and week out. There is not much malicious intent? Why would there be? Rather than get sentimental and emotionally defensive….and even a little retarded by reacting the way you did with Transformation now….why not debate the issue based on the rugby ….
Smit is not a 3….everyone knows and accepts this….very few would support a smit at 3….instead of accepting the weekly evidence you choose to call those that acknowledge this idiots , and tell them they better off watching soccer?
What sort of debate is that?
Emotion and sentimentality are detrating from what was a blogger i looked forward to reading.
You better than that.
16 Mar 2010, 14:51 pm
@gunther: Yes, why?
16 Mar 2010, 14:52 pm
and if there#s anyone that should retire gracefully is old grantie with his armchair crusade against the most successful bok capatain ever who is still in his prime at a tight 5 forward.
there is a reason england 2003 was so powerful, all hairy assed grizzled veterans in their pomp – our geniuses want to drop all of that.
As for Os, he was 34 when JW persisted with him, well past his prime, and had been lifted by the french in port elizabeth and mowed repeatedly by the english at twickers … so best he remembers all that before casting aspersions on others.
16 Mar 2010, 14:52 pm
Charo…would you play Smit at 3 for Boks??
A serious question.
16 Mar 2010, 14:53 pm
@Kondi:
not only will they win gold, but do so easily and you wont be around to recognise him and give credit when due for love or money.
16 Mar 2010, 14:53 pm
Smit needs to be kept until 2011 WC as simple as that.
16 Mar 2010, 14:54 pm
nope instead we’ll hear about lucky packet wins and so on and so forth …. crud, in other words.
16 Mar 2010, 14:56 pm
Smit should revert back to hooker. Bismarck can sit bench until he sorts out his attitude.
16 Mar 2010, 14:56 pm
@cab: You really live in a fantasy world Smit is too old to play, he must stop being so selfish and retire.
16 Mar 2010, 14:58 pm
@cab: 177
Cab….seems you want me to watch soccer too?
Because i have the gall to question the selection of Smit at 3?
When all and sundry are saying its a doomed disaster except you and maybe 1 or 2 ‘bittereinders’…
Screw you mate….i never blogged purposefully for 7 days last week….and couldnt believe the amount of bloggers who, in my complete absence, echoed my view. I may have been the first….but seems most now agree smit aint no haardebaard 3…is that my fault? Are you actually saying my views are influencing all and sundry?
I think you detract from the wisdom of the bloggers….they dont need me…or you for that matter, to create perspectives. They are more astute than you give them credit for….and are more than capable of making up there own minds based on what they are seeing on the field.
16 Mar 2010, 14:58 pm
Get CJ and BJ in for the WC to play tighthead.
16 Mar 2010, 14:58 pm
@cab: dont bother cab.
there are those who have short memories and will clamour with the mob as soon as a player hits a rough patch, and those who will breathe deeply before trying to convince the whole world that they are right…on…and on…..and on…and on, mindlessly, endlessly.
grant shifts his focus more often than a cameraman on a porn set. first it is the scrummaging, then its the captaincy, then its the conditioning.
but deep down, its personal i believe.
smitty will be there next year. and we will have a damn fine chance of defending our title.
funny thing is that prof noakes predicted a poor season for JS due to fatigue but it cant have anything to do with that can it?
16 Mar 2010, 14:59 pm
@Kondi:
yeah, and i think its you are living in neverneverland and stop being so selfish and stop talking the crud.
but regardless of where u or i are living, provided smit stays in the squad, we lift the trophy in 2011, if not, we go down, same for schalk burger.
16 Mar 2010, 15:00 pm
@Kondi: We still need Smit to win the WC. After that he can retire.
16 Mar 2010, 15:00 pm
and cab….how can you compare the selection of os in his position , to that of smit at 3?
Again, a retarted comparison…..wheres the intellect gone cab??
Perhaps washed away by the sentimentality?
16 Mar 2010, 15:01 pm
@grant10:
lol, what utter propaganda, who the hell you think you manipulating.
crud of the highest order – i actually think you are a great winde-up merchant, except unfortunately i think you believe it.
16 Mar 2010, 15:01 pm
@grant10:
my ideal bok front row would gurthro, smit, bj.
in the absence of bj and cj for tighthead, we are struggling and smittie is no worse than the rest available in the country
16 Mar 2010, 15:01 pm
@Kondi: Are you a Du Plessis brother or a cousin?
16 Mar 2010, 15:04 pm
i do agree with Rangerman on his point about fatigue….Smit is being played into the ground….and sharks doing him no favours at all in this regard…
poor man management…so poor. Smit should of been at home on a conditioning programme. Saders do this for MC Caw….we drill our skipper to death….dumb,dumb,dumb!
16 Mar 2010, 15:06 pm
@charo: Very nice front row. With Bismarck and CJ adding fire from the bench.
16 Mar 2010, 15:06 pm
got to fetch my car from a service….
cheers all…
cab…no wind up my man…just my opinion…hate me as much as you like….i dont care mate….
and i prefer rugby to football…every day of the week.
16 Mar 2010, 15:06 pm
but grant what you talking of, you want to give him a permanent rest.
16 Mar 2010, 15:06 pm
@grant10: You can’t forget Smit was originally a 3, we’ve said it hundreds of times before. The basis of the argument is that tight forwards still have a lot to offer as they edge towards their mid-30′s. I’d back that point, and the fact that we need Smit until 2011.
16 Mar 2010, 15:06 pm
@grant10: grant, once again you are being intolerant of others point of view mate.
cab doesnt agree with you that js should retire and is finished.
you are so sure you are right and everyone else is wrong but there are plenty who dont agree with you.
and so what if people do or dont?
you seem to battle with people disagreeing though buddy.
i say js is still the best TH option in sa. you say everyone from brok harris to werner kruger is better (i noticed that after wp nel got eaten by guthro his name seems to have dissapeared from your list?)
you also say tiaan lebenberg and adriaan strauss are better hookers?
this after js ATE strauss when he played against the cheetahs (go back and look at the pain in adriaans eyes after every scrum) and then monstered coenie when he went to 3?
you also said schalk was washed up, finito, klaar etc etc.
blowing in the wind imo.
16 Mar 2010, 15:07 pm
But how is it that we were so successful in 2009 with Smit at tighthead??
16 Mar 2010, 15:08 pm
lol, just joking with you mostly, but am serious on Smit, he’s going to be invaluable 2011 RWC.
i’m telling you if he’s there, we shall win yet again, bet the house on it.
16 Mar 2010, 15:08 pm
Relax fellas barney will be there for the wc next year because the divmeister decrees it.. we need to look after him until then to get him right…we can play bismark into the ground in the meantime…
16 Mar 2010, 15:09 pm
@iori Yagami: CJ a little average at tighthead in my opinion. He also went backwards in Test rugby at the end of last year.
16 Mar 2010, 15:10 pm
@gunther: @201
Agreed. So we need to rest Smit desperately…but when?
16 Mar 2010, 15:12 pm
@Mutant: Agree with you, we need him at the WC. He is the glue that holds this team together.
16 Mar 2010, 15:13 pm
@cab: @169, I must say that I find your comment re: Transformation, primitive and inherently racist.
16 Mar 2010, 15:14 pm
@Mutant: Right now, sharks losing anyway.
16 Mar 2010, 15:14 pm
@gunther: Ja I do work at city of cape town. Why you ask?
16 Mar 2010, 15:15 pm
Mutant
Right now I would start as soon as they get back from tour, complete break for 5-6 weeks for conditioning with the bol fitness team and then some games off the wood for the sharks for the final couple if super 14 rounds..
No currie cup either..
16 Mar 2010, 15:17 pm
@XhosaKid:
ok, if you must say it, but i dont know why since i dont know what colour transformation’s skin is.
16 Mar 2010, 15:18 pm
@gunther: & @iori Yagami:
Makes the most sense to rest him asap after tour but seriously doubt the Sharks will let that happen. They need to start winning and a lot of their team is based around Smit. So basically in reality I can’t see that happening.
16 Mar 2010, 15:20 pm
Time to fix me a Shark Burger on the Brook barby.
H I G H L A N D E R S !
16 Mar 2010, 15:20 pm
@gunther: Ja no currie cup for core Boks this year.
16 Mar 2010, 15:20 pm
i mean as far as i know trannie could be a 7ft3 boerseun from de aar who likes to blog in pyjamas and a bra.
16 Mar 2010, 15:21 pm
Iori
Parking tickets!
16 Mar 2010, 15:24 pm
@cab: priceless!
16 Mar 2010, 15:25 pm
@XhosaKid:
what on earth is primitive/racist about roundball?
16 Mar 2010, 15:25 pm
@gunther: Lol oh sorry not my department!
16 Mar 2010, 15:26 pm
@cab: I don’t think that Smitty should be the TH but there’s no doubt he is the greatest Springbok captain ever, how many times have we seen the boks collapse without his leadership? I say move him back to hooker with Gary Botha as backup…get rid of Bismarck and his fat-*** brother, he WAS one of the most promising hookers we had but he’s gone 30 yards backward in the last year, his neck can’t support the weight of his inflated head anymore…
16 Mar 2010, 15:27 pm
Mutant
Sharks season is as buggered as a cheeky altar boy .. He should be bought out of his sharks contract and go to pay for play.. That way the boks get first call on his time.. should be that way for all the senior players .,
16 Mar 2010, 15:29 pm
@cab: ya Cab, I’m sure, whatever man, that was racist and you know it.
16 Mar 2010, 15:29 pm
@Atreides: Agree, but dont throw Bismarck away just yet, he still has more to offer.
16 Mar 2010, 15:31 pm
Iori
Story of my life!
16 Mar 2010, 15:36 pm
@iori Yagami: I don’t doubt he has the potential, but he’s shown a remarkable lack of maturity for a supposedly senior Springbok, especially at a time when the Sharks need their senior guys to step up….
16 Mar 2010, 15:37 pm
@XhosaKid: Man that’s a tattered, soiled, dog-eared card you’re waving around!
16 Mar 2010, 15:39 pm
@Atreides: well, Cab, has dug his hole and quitely jumped in, while you still acting ( I hope) ignorant.
16 Mar 2010, 15:41 pm
@rangerman: #198 what did wyatt crockett & ben robinson do to john smit?
@cab:well mr know-it-all & your gatgabba rangerman, you are the first to throw insults & disparage bloggers who don’t agree with you. You say smit is the best option @ tighthead in the country and i show you what the french, italians, irish, crusaders, waratahs, wallabies did to him & the best you can come up with is that i must go watch football? Umsunu wakho…
if you have no facts don’t debate…
Everyone is aware of smit’s past glories, but those are meaningless if he is getting drilled week-in week-out
16 Mar 2010, 15:41 pm
@Atreides: True. His late tackles is getting to me. Its totally unneccassary.
16 Mar 2010, 15:43 pm
@Black Panther: Normally that would incur a little banter from us Sharkies…..but just cannot argue with that one right now. Geez that sucks.
Also, really chaps my *** when journos always refer to number of Boks in a team. It implies these are current boks and they should win. Just because you have a team of 10 “Boks”, most of them has beens by the way, are you meant to win everything? For example, Terblanche, Murray, Jannie, Muller, Carstens, Ndungane.
With that logic if they fielded a team with Straueli, Teichmann, James Small, Percy and **** Muir we would win?
16 Mar 2010, 15:46 pm
Smit stays guys finish and klaar. G2g safe blogging
16 Mar 2010, 15:48 pm
@Transformation: yoh!
since when was i the first to throw insults around mate?
you have just ahd a nice go at me calling me a gatgabba and msunu?
when did i insult you?
no man, i think you are being a little precious buddy. you dont like my point of view?
shampies
learn to live with it julius 
16 Mar 2010, 15:50 pm
@XhosaKid: Not ignorant, just that black insecurity gets up my nose
16 Mar 2010, 15:55 pm
@rangerman: i tagged your post and i asked you a question if i wanted to call you anything would’ve written it there…so relax.
I also tagged cab and proceeded to reply to his earlier post, finish & klaar…
16 Mar 2010, 15:57 pm
@toddke:
Perhaps, and I agree with that theory. But I was at Lancaster Park recently to see Crusaders vs Sharks and, for eg, I saw the Crusaders frontrow manhandle the current Bok-frontrow with some ease. Smit must have left the field 3-4 times beore being subbed, Beast was beasted, and Bismarck was reduced to his usual gig of standing over felled players-on-their-backs with his cocked fist. These were not ex-Boks but the current starting 3 against a 2 x B-Blacks (Ben Franks & Davey Crockett) with the B-hooker, Paulo, sandwiched in between. Their domination was total.
G10 and I agreed pre-season that the decision for Smit to sign-on til 2011 would create massive prob’s with the Sharks and the Boks. He is considerably past his prime and keeping the Sharks in turbo-reverse, and this will leak over in to the Boks. Bismarck, whilst not the finished article, is an amazing player at no2 but noone performs at their best when constantly looking in the rear-view mirror. Look at what Rooney is doing at ManU (grrrrrrrrr) since the peacock, Ronaldo, left !
As an AB fan I say Go Smitty Go !
16 Mar 2010, 15:59 pm
@Transformation:
suck it up man, dont be such a pansy.
16 Mar 2010, 16:00 pm
@Kondi: 170 Man you’re one sick individual. To describe any human being as being like Aids is one of the worst comments I’ve ever seen. You need psychiatric treatment. What’s Smit ever done to you?
16 Mar 2010, 16:01 pm
@rangerman: you earlier post patting cab on the back, what was that all about? What were you insinuating in that post?
16 Mar 2010, 16:02 pm
Cab you say you will bet your house on us winning the world cup with JS playing, then I see you home less in the future. JS must go he is kak.
16 Mar 2010, 16:04 pm
@cab: suck up what really, the fact that you come here and you call other bloggers idiots for holding a different view from your apparently well informed one?
Everyone, including Os must shut up about smit, is that it?
16 Mar 2010, 16:06 pm
@Transformation: cool your jets transie, i am sorry if i offended you me old gatgabba
@Transformation: patting cab on the back?
you mean agreeing with someone i have never met on an anonymous rugby blog?
sheesh, you have become so sensitive of late transie. do i get all uptight when you crow, or agree with opinions that differ to mine?
no, i dont.
so i am not sure what got so far up your nose but i am off to go for a quick dive. i wish you a pleasant day
16 Mar 2010, 16:06 pm
@Atreides: 231
Not insecurity in general?
Only black insecurity?
Bloody hell mate!
16 Mar 2010, 16:11 pm
@Atreides: @231 I dont think many of us here give a **** about how you feel about black people, deal with your **** somewhere else, RT should be you first port of call.
16 Mar 2010, 16:18 pm
@Transformation:
look i dunno what Os has said about Smit or where, i’d be pretty dissapointed if that is the case, since many realised there was more to Os than his scrumming, in fact if you ask Os himself, i#m sure he will admit as much.
The problem is a very simple one, BJ and CJ, the best TH props in the country decided to play their rugby abroad, since there are no other worldclass THs in SA and since Bismarck is a worldclass hooker, the very innovative approach by PdV was to try and move Smit to 3 – it worked far better than anyone expected, and the Lions who prior to the tour were looking to dominate the bok scrum, were totally surprised. The Boks went on to have their most succesful 3N ever despite an ordinary scrum – so you tell me what.
16 Mar 2010, 16:18 pm
@cab: @179
I might just keep that 1 for posterity.
Lovin it !
@cab: @200
and just when you thought the lunatics really had overtaken the assylum…..
“bet the house on it”
simply beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful !
Noone, but noone, does arrogance anything like this.
16 Mar 2010, 16:20 pm
Smit should stay at 2 and not go anywhere near 3. PdV’s is interfering in the Sharks and ******** everything up. I also get the feeling PdV made assurances to Bismarck and Jannie which cannot be backed up. Until Bismarck can sort out his discipline he’s a liability to Sharks and Boks. His loss won’t be that great. Leibenburg and Botha are adequate back-ups maybe also Adrian Strauss. There are far key players losses that would devastate the Boks such as Morne, Du Preez, Matfield and Habana. What the Boks should be focussing their game plan on unleashing Habana. Habs is devastating in space but so under utilised. Same goes for JPP who’s still got plenty of pace. The only way Habs get himself on the scoresheet is by looking for work. Can’t remember last time I saw him put into space.
Anyway back to the Sharks. Maybe Smit should be rested for the next few games. Send Smit on a conditioning and get him back into shape to be a hooker. Let the Du Pleaseme brothers back their arrogant chirping on the field. Give them enough rope and they’ll hang themselves. When they show themselves to be nothing better than a pair of Vrystaat prima donnas drop them like a bad habit along with Ndungane. Put the middle-finger up to PdV. Start a leaner Smit at 2 and draft in Burden as back-up. Move Kankowski to 12 and Alberts to no.8. Inject some pace into the backline with Mvovo at 14.
16 Mar 2010, 16:20 pm
@grant10: Whatever, I was referring specifically to his one post
16 Mar 2010, 16:20 pm
@rangerman: @rangerman: enjoy your dive ymzingeli…i’m not sensitive about anything
16 Mar 2010, 16:23 pm
@cab: @242, I agree with that post 100%, now the question is, what should we do when an “ordinary scrum”, (using your words), has totally disintegrated into complete and utter shambles??
16 Mar 2010, 16:25 pm
@XhosaKid: Lol thank you for illustrating my point so succintly.
Do you even know what race I am? Or are you just assuming? What happened to black pride? Why are you so insecure about being black that you sh*t your panties every time someone refers to anything to do with black people? I make a remark about a behaviour pattern and you respond by accusing me (lol) of feeling a certain way about a certain race? Straw man argument, friend!!!!!
You should go and read Moeletsi Mbeki, I think it would be of great help in changing your view of the world and way of thinking for the better.
Oh, and who made you the spokesperson on the forum?
16 Mar 2010, 16:27 pm
@Black Panther:
what arrogance, its a dead certainty.
16 Mar 2010, 16:32 pm
@Black Panther:
reminds me a lot of all those bloggers in nz before rwc2007
16 Mar 2010, 16:34 pm
@cab:
There is only 1 certainty in life and that is death. But youre in good company here, little doubt in that.
Better hope they draw Fiji again then.
16 Mar 2010, 16:37 pm
@Atreides: I repeat, go sort your black issues somewhere else, we dont give a **** here, maybe the okes at RT might care, ungomnye ofuna ukugcantswa ngonina, that should take take of your stupid comment about me not knowing ukuba ungungamla or even being dumb enough to insult my intelligence with that….
16 Mar 2010, 16:42 pm
@XhosaKid:
ja, now you talking sense, you sound like a kenner.
16 Mar 2010, 16:43 pm
@charo:
A reference youve made more than once. Provide 1 piece of evidence that I did – all avail to you in the wonderful World of the WWW – and I’ll happily wear a Bok jersey to every match in 2011.
But, for the record, I said France were my Favourites in 2011. Fortunately for your team, they avoided all 3 of JWs-Boks bogey teams in NZ/Aus/France.
Put up or shut TFU. And put your house on it.
16 Mar 2010, 16:45 pm
@Transformation: 226 “Umsunu wakho…” – WTF. The moderator is having a slack day. Had a few giggles at that though.
@Black Panther: 233. Obviously you would agree to any disadvantage to the Boks. With Smit, the Boks as a team are stronger than without them
@cab: 200 With you there, and you are not being arrogant either – just qietly pointing out the truth.
@charo: 250. Careful Charo, BP’s spit will me smearing his screen by now.
16 Mar 2010, 16:46 pm
@Heavens Game: will be
16 Mar 2010, 16:47 pm
@Black Panther: 254 – maybe because these “bogey” teams weren’t good enough and didn’t have the BMT to make it to the final. You can only beat what’s put in front of you. Just accept it NZ/France/Aus simply weren’t good to go all the way.
16 Mar 2010, 16:49 pm
@Black Panther: 254. France might be the favourites of some teracherous Kiwis, but you do know that with Smitty leading the way, the 2011 WC will be contested by the Boks and the Frogs.
16 Mar 2010, 16:50 pm
@Black Panther:
erm, bp, you keep on thinking that i am referring to you.
where did i say that?
there were a number of kiwi bloggers (hurricane being one if i remember correctly) who unashamedly told those who were interested that the rwc was as good as won by the all blacks.
16 Mar 2010, 16:54 pm
@cab: results in 2009 shouldn’t be used to paper over the shambles that is our scrum. If we keep using poly-filla on it, the next thing come july next year “the cracks have become chasms”
oubaas earlier posted that SARU has initiated a “scrum factory?” or something like that, where the likes of balie swart, os, toks & others can go & impart knowledge & experience to the current players & the youngsters. Now if that is not an alarm bell i don’t know what is…
Drastic measures are needed now.
16 Mar 2010, 16:56 pm
@KZN King Shark:
JWs-Boks had losing records against 3 teams – NZ/Aus/France. Twas thru sheer incredible fortune that they they not only avoided all 3, but then faced 2 teams they had NEVER lost to – Fiji (FFS) and Argies.
Its a fact whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. France may do well vs ABs come RWCs, but they destroy the Boks whenever, wherever. From memory, SA now has 1 (home) win in 5 or 6 matches now….
@Heavens Game:
Im usually quite good with English, but you’ve got me there.
Please keep playing Smit. Is that clear now ?
16 Mar 2010, 16:59 pm
@Black Panther: 261. Don’t worry, little tyke – John Smit will be there in the WC final holding aloft the trophy after a win against the French. The AB’s might win the 3rd/4th playoff – so all will not be lost.
16 Mar 2010, 17:01 pm
Fortunately we are drawn to meet the ab’s in the semis..
If they make it that far?
16 Mar 2010, 17:05 pm
@charo:
Bring it up with him/them then, you keep referring the matter to me for some reason – why ?
@Heavens Game:
“will be”
Ive been away from Keo 3 glorious weeks now but gee, I forgot how much Id missed the place.
Cab
Heavens Game
wheres my other Fan Club members – ROLL UP, ROLL UP, get your brain tested right here !!!
JL1 – how Ive missed you.
BokFan1 – you still here, sweetie ?
Katman – disrespected any International rugby greats recently ?
and where is Peaches ?!! how Ive missed her so.
16 Mar 2010, 17:06 pm
@Heavens Game: @Heavens Game: hey mdlalo wase zulwini…
16 Mar 2010, 17:07 pm
@Black Panther:
short memory mate.
just a few posts back you accused cab of arrogance for putting his house on it 8)
16 Mar 2010, 17:09 pm
@Black Panther: 264. In honour of the comment from Transie @Transformation: 226 “Umsunu wakho…” I say “bepha wena” you bitter kiwi dreamer.
16 Mar 2010, 17:11 pm
@gunther:
The last time the Boks met the Blacks in a RWC – coincidentally also the last time the Boks met a decent team in a RWC – well, ‘losing Quarterfinalist’ should ring a bell.
If they make it that far.
Dont you just cringe every time your countrymen use ‘will be’ ?! Come on, Gunther, we may have got off to a slightly rocky start but……..youre better than that !
16 Mar 2010, 17:13 pm
@charo: @266
please explain.
16 Mar 2010, 17:14 pm
@Heavens Game: @267
when C3POs escape-pod lands safely on Tattooine, I’ll be sure to ask him.
16 Mar 2010, 17:16 pm
@Heavens Game:
disgusting!!!!
luckily the automoderator software only understands english
16 Mar 2010, 17:18 pm
@Black Panther:
sigh….
winning the world cup with js as cappie
16 Mar 2010, 17:19 pm
@Transformation:
ja that scrum factory is a bladdy good idea, its a disgrace that the bokke have seen there gatte for so long in the scrum.
16 Mar 2010, 17:21 pm
look i think the ABs are a great team and deserve to have won a professional world cup, but lets face it, they are playing at home, imagine the pressure – there is just no chance.
16 Mar 2010, 17:25 pm
@Transformation: 265. Hawu uyaqondo! Careful umjita basokhala masinya.
16 Mar 2010, 17:27 pm
@charo:
Im sure the correlation between me saying ‘JS to continue’ and Cab/HG saying ‘put the house on Boks winning’ is there somewhere.
somewhere….
@cab:
the pressure will be massive, every single time a NZer pulls on the Black jersey, RWC or not.
Personally I hope the ABs have another average year of results this year, that would be the perfect buildup. Almost as perfect as Safas saying their team “will win”.
Astounding arrogance. I recall a blogger here once saying there is a Google-stat about this linkage with SA males. Now I believe it.
16 Mar 2010, 17:30 pm
@Black Panther: 268 The Boks met a decent team in the final. It was England – who did beat France, who in turn beat the AB’s.
As good as the AB’s are in that lopsided 3Ns tournament, they are just not good enough to win WC’s outside of NZ.
Next year, in all probability, they won’t be able to do that any more. 1987 is a long time ago – times have changed.
16 Mar 2010, 17:37 pm
@Heavens Game:
Give yourself a large pat on the back – youre the first person in years to call Engl a “decent team”. Well, other than Big Hit, that is, soon after swanning over his real team, the Boks.
Of course you/all Safas have a vested interest in calling that (terrible) Engl team ‘decent’, so we really expected nothing less. They proved in Round 1 how ‘decent’ they were….
Have they beaten a TriN team since ?
Oh, I forget….TriN titles are, in your own words, “lopsided”. That is to say, topsided with the 3 best teams in the World, winning 5 of the 6 RWCs on ofer…
16 Mar 2010, 17:52 pm
@Black Panther: 278. England still beat France, who walked all over the AB’s in the WC. England also beat Aus in WC 2007, which they also did in 2003. I think “even” England have a better record in WCs than the AB’s. Its okay though – you are always “No. 1″ between premier tournaments.
16 Mar 2010, 18:00 pm
@Heavens Game:
‘Engl have a better record in RWCs than ABs’
youre a geeeeeeenius !
They both have 1 Title.
And in 3 x RWC-matches, Engl have never beaten NZ, and 2 of those on home soil. In fact, the ABs outscore them 2 tries to 1 and almost the same stat in points.
But, go ahead, keep telling us about this “decent” Engl team.
funny word, ‘decent’. Its kind of like saying a chick has an ‘OK’ figure when, in fact, she has a face only a mother could love.
16 Mar 2010, 18:20 pm
@Black Panther: 280. When last did the AB’s win the WC? The familiar refrain next year might be “4 more years!”. Someone should get George Gregan to sing that as the theme song for WC2011 in place of “World in Union”. Kiri te Kanawa is a bit old for that.
16 Mar 2010, 18:31 pm
@Heavens Game:
Youve lost it, that is if you ever had it.
Youre ‘decent’ Engl team were ***** before RWC’07 and theyve been ***** ever since. It matters not when who won what, altho to be fair, Engl have been going ON about the roundball version since 1966. Which begs the Ques, do you have any English blood ? Im guessing you do, a ‘decent’ amount probably too.
I was in Stade de France, Paris, 2007. And I cheered on your lot, no matter how farken lucky they were to meet that dire Engl team.
Go ahead tho, continue trying to make that silk ear out of a sows purse.
16 Mar 2010, 18:54 pm
@Black Panther: 282. No need for personal attacks here, little guy.
“It matters not when who won what” – who has lost it now. I was at Twickenham when the Baa Baas beat the AB’s last year.
And I didn’t cheer on your lot – how could I.
It was funny hearing the English, Welsh and Irish supporters of the Baa Baas shouting “Matfields ball” when the Baa Baa were given a penalty. Sure enough, Giteau kicked for touch.
It was also funny seeing Twickenham giving Habana a standing ovation after his hat trick.
The funniest was hearing the Kiwi supporters shouting “we’ll win the game with tries and running rugby”.
Funnier still was the sour looks on Kiwi faces upon leaving the stadium after the game – if there was a moment for rugby hooliganism, that was it. Bad attitude and sportsmanship.
I respect Kiwis of an older generation – the young’uns I’ve met in “Blighty” are a different breed. A sense of entitlement wrt rugby that beats the cr*p out of any “Yarpie” arrogance. I sense you are one of the new breed.
16 Mar 2010, 19:17 pm
@Heavens Game:
Asking your heritage now equates to a ‘personal attack’ ?!
Wow.
Im struggling to understand the relevance of a BaaBaas non-Test match against a AB-B team however. Unless youre telling me that the Boks losing to Leicester and Sarries equates to something less embarrassing. How were the faces leading out of Wembley and Welford Rd that day ?
Frankly, youre all over the shop.
Oh, I think I get it now. Youre trying to take the Moral High Ground ?! This, the man who says the Boks “will win” the next RWC ?
Bless. I sense you are one of the new in-breeds.
16 Mar 2010, 19:40 pm
wakanathan @ his best!! Lovely
16 Mar 2010, 20:04 pm
@Black Panther: No – asking my heritage does not equate to a personal attack, its all in the tone, my son.
The relevance of a Baabaas non-test match has nothing to do with the result, it has to do with the Kiwi supporters on view there and their unsportsmanlike attitude when, as you have pointed out – a non-test match with an AB-B team – lost.
As I said before, the new breed of Kiwi supporter(and i have met a few) has this sense of entitlement and preciousness that far exceeds any arrogance shown by the “yarpies”. This does not reflect the respect, knowledge and more humble attitude of previous generations.
It will be interesting to see what happens in NZ if a team other than the AB’s lift the WC.
This new gen attitude I see in your commentary. If you were a troll then this would be another story – bait, counter bait and have laughs stirring (as in poppa, hurricane), but you are a different breed.
Just to expand on England: Yes they have won 1 WC (=NZ)
They were in the final (1991), ABs knocked out in semis, Semi final 1995 (ABs knocked out in final), 1999 QF (ABs 3rd), 2003 (WC) ABs – Semis, 2007 Eng Finalists ABs knocked out in QF.
So from 1987 – Eng have progressed further than NZ in 3 WCs, and likewise for the ABs (progressed further than Eng in 3 WCs). The record of NZ and Eng in World Cups in terms of progression is pretty even.
Bt hey “It matters not when who won what” as you say.
16 Mar 2010, 20:10 pm
@Black Panther: Therefore we come full circle back to your comment to Gunther: “The last time the Boks met the Blacks in a RWC – coincidentally also the last time the Boks met a decent team in a RWC”
And I said despite your preciousness – the Boks did beat a decent team in the Final. Heck, it must have been decent – it beat the team that beat the mighty All Blacks – WC winners 1987.
16 Mar 2010, 20:23 pm
@Heavens Game:
assume you living in the uk – which part?
16 Mar 2010, 20:29 pm
@charo: Hi Charo. Yup, I live in a great little area in SW London called Barnes. (Just up the road from Richmond). You – Ghana, apparently?
16 Mar 2010, 20:36 pm
@Heavens Game:
lovely around richmond, kingston area.
have a son in wandsworth and a daughter in fleet.
yes, currently in ghana. i work for a uk shipping company and they have a habit of shifting their senior guys around africa.
moved here from sa (including angola), prior to that in lag0s and ghana.
been living this expat life for 10 years now so looking to give it up soon.
16 Mar 2010, 20:50 pm
@charo: Barnes is really lovely – its a village in “London”. I get woken up on a Sunday by the bloody Church bells ringing in the little Catholic Church a few blocks away. A 100 meters from the Thames and some great pubs – the only time it gets really hectic is at the time of the Boat Race – other than that, its great.
Fleet – thats funny – I drove there today. Little market town in Hampshire, seems quite nice.
Jeez, so you must have seen it all in terms of business on the continent. Whats it like in Ghana – are you in Accra
16 Mar 2010, 21:22 pm
@Heavens Game:
on this continent, the chinese have taken over and basically control the new markets.
the african govt ministers are selling their souls to get a chinese sponsored swiss bank a/c and the ordinary people will see nothing.
been the same story, different colonial powers, for hundreds of years.
live in accra, work in tema.
accra is pretty cosmopolitan, lots of foreign companies and ngo’s so one gets to meet a large cross-section of the international community.
not a bad life but the locals drive worse than our taxi maniacs back home. think they were introduced to these mechanical devices far too early in their natural development.
16 Mar 2010, 22:07 pm
Heavens Game
“it’s all in the tone” …..my God, that truly is desperate !
Whatever problem you have with the modern Kiwi fan I couldn’t really care less. I certainly don’t refer to anyone here as “Yarpies” ( altho I do suggest it has more to do with the proliferation of “Jaaaaa” pies than any of yr own sensitivities). Nor have I ever seen a Kiwi fan ever run on to the field and attack the referee. Nor have I seen Kiwis, en masse, quote victimisation as fact and refereeing conspiracies out of thin air.
Nor have I ever, here, once said “we will win the RWC” as you have. Far from making some non-existent perception of Kiwis as poor sports you have, instead, perpetuated the image of the arrogant Safa. So congratulations !
17 Mar 2010, 09:30 am
@charo: 292. Whatever the Chinese don’t control, the weazel NGOs seem to find their way in under the pretensions of “development”. They probably have all the mod-con offices, drive top-spec Landcruisers, and money meant for the person on the ground gets spent on the NGO/Adviser/Consultant structure. The NGO people are either ultra-cynical or they have a messiah complex – a definite pet-hate of mine.
Oh well, at least you get to play the odd round of golf and ex-pat tax benefits.
17 Mar 2010, 09:39 am
@Black Panther: 293. You’re not making sense here. You seem a bit hysterical – take a deep breath… Why have I “perpetuated the image of the arrogant Safa” when my point was about England and saying that in the 2007 WC they must have been decent – they beat France who beat the mighty ABs (WC winners 1987). The arrogance has come from you – “youre the first person in years to call Engl a “decent team” “. I then pointed out that in WCs England have as good a record as NZ, in terms of progression.
Its called being rational, my son – not arrogance.
17 Mar 2010, 10:54 am
@Heavens Game:
“we will win the RWC” is nothing short of sheer pure unadulterated arrogance. Are you related to Kobus K Kitty ?
happy to dish it tho, arent we ?!
17 Mar 2010, 10:59 am
@Black Panther: But hey “It matters not when who won what” as you say.
17 Mar 2010, 11:30 am
@Heavens Game:
context is everything
you arrogant finger-pointing moron.
17 Mar 2010, 12:28 pm
@Black Panther: 298. “context is everything” – well done, you’ve learnt something. Now there’s a good chap.
18 Mar 2010, 02:59 am
@Bod:
The NZRU don’t agree with you.
18 Mar 2010, 03:11 am
@Transformation:
The move of Smit to TH was to accommodate Ralepelle on the bench.
I believe that is what you guys call a quota.
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