Expect a red hot Cardiff clash
4 Jun 2010
There is no such thing as a ‘nothing’ Test. Saturday’s Bok confrontation with Wales in Cardiff has significance.
The Springboks, in the build-up to the 2007 World Cup, relished every chance they had to play – and beat – England. Even when they thrashed an England side in South Africa missing the core of their regulars the Boks spoke up the meaning of constantly winning against blokes wearing the English white jersey.
Wales have only beaten the Boks once in 100 years, but they’ve come bloody close on a couple of occasions, and the 20-15 Bok win in Cardiff in 2008 could very easily have been a Welsh victory.
Both teams are missing regulars, but it is by no means the best of Wales against a second string Bok team. It is the best available Welsh team and it isn’t that far off the best Bok team, especially now that Fourie du Preez is out for the year.
The Bok tight five is the best that currently can be selected and while I’d always select Schalk Burger and Juan Smith to start at next year’s World Cup, Francois Louw and Dewald Potgieter were the form South African loose-forwards in the Super 14. Joe van Niekerk has been outstanding at flank and No 8 for Toulon for the last two years and there isn’t much to choose between an in-form Van Niekerk and a firing Pierre Spies.
At halfback one of Ricky Januarie or Ruan Pienaar will start for the Boks this season and how they perform against Wales will have a huge bearing on the Boks’ season. The Springboks cannot play the same quality kicking game without Du Preez and his unavailability is a leveller because it forces the Boks to adjust their attack.
Butch James should have played and the intention was always to move Pienaar to halfback in the second half and James to flyhalf. Hypocrisy and greed, in terms of Player Welfare and remuneration, means James has to watch from the stands. It is an opportunity lost.
Jaque Fourie is the best outside centre in South Africa, Francois Steyn is the best selection at fullback and Juan de Jongh has been on the rise all season and would have been in an extended Bok squad, regardless of Jean de Villiers’s availability and that of Bulls centre Wynand Olivier.
Gio Aplon and Francois Hougaard were the most exciting of the wingers in the competition and are fighting it out for one place with JP Pietersen and Lionel Mapoe injured. So when you consider a match 22 of who is fit to play for the Boks in the next two months, the players missing for Cardiff are Bakkies Botha, Burger, Spies, Morne Steyn, Bryan Habana and one of De Villiers or Olivier at inside centre.
This team isn’t as second rate as some have made out, and 10 of those starting in Cardiff would always start.
The preparation for the Boks has not been easy because of the chaos around James’s selection and withdrawal three times in three days. What is important in the context of the Test is the presence of John Smit and Victor Matfield, the two most experienced tight forwards currently playing international rugby.
Wales, since Warren Gatland became coach, have closed the gap on the Boks in every Test, and there is a belief within the Welsh squad that Saturday will be the occasion they actually close it completely and win.
I would not bet my house against it happening. Victory for the Boks will show this side can win without the halfback kicking game of Du Preez and (Morne) Steyn, which as a combination has no equal in rugby.
Defeat will give every one of the chasing pack belief that there is a vulnerability to the Boks when Du Preez isn’t wearing No 9.
I don’t buy the dismissive attitude some have to this Test. I think it is massively significant in terms of the World Cup and because of the nature of the build-up trying to pick a winner would be the equal of picking a lotto number.
You’ll know within the first five minutes who is going to come out on top, but on a Friday afternoon trying to call this one would be like taking a leak in the dark. You may think you know which way it is going, but there can’t be any certainty.
If the Boks win this Test it has to be acknowledged what a good win it is. If they lose, there has to be a similar acknowledgement that the defeat will have an impact on their season and especially their pysche with respect to Wales at next year’s World Cup.
294 Comments
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 » Show All
4 Jun 2010, 16:39 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-145:
That’s just the thing Dawn…you haven’t ever come across him.
4 Jun 2010, 16:40 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-139:
Do you address this poor unfortunate soul with the same venom you spew at me?
4 Jun 2010, 16:41 pm
Sorry for being such a ********…what does this mean:
“…go lean on a goal post”?
4 Jun 2010, 16:41 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-150:
And then she still comes back for more?
4 Jun 2010, 16:42 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-153:
It means what it says, sewer-brain.
“Go lean on a goal post”
Like .. a football goal post?
4 Jun 2010, 16:43 pm
*’s = D utchman
Hey! Keo I believe I’m entitled to use D-utchman seeing as I’m one.
These *’s are a little rediculous.
4 Jun 2010, 16:43 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-136: That is a fair point, but look at it from a broader squad perspective.
Of course the player needs to be good enough, and you might argue that it is difficult to compare Joe to our other emerging nr8s domestically. I for one don’t buy a comparison between North and South, with the latter camp claiming superiority over the former. There are too many variables to consider here and is a PhD topic in its own right.
My view is that an overseas player can add diversity to the squad mix by injecting cultural capital and general knowledge stock. Add to it a 50-test veteran with leadership abilities and you can add a lucrative stock to an already impressive portfolio.
Look at the value Gary Botha added to the Bulls scrum in 2010.
If managed well, Joe should go to New Zealand in 2011.
4 Jun 2010, 16:43 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-152: Thats just been friendly. This is like a cat tapping a caught lizard with its paw… Its too easy…
4 Jun 2010, 16:43 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-155:
I don’t get it.
4 Jun 2010, 16:44 pm
@scorpion: #128 good riddance to bad rubbish! I hate Rio! I remember a poster made by Leeds fans after he left them for Manure “Rio is scum and he knows it Classic!
4 Jun 2010, 16:44 pm
@gunther(gunther)-106:
Hahaha…you need to go and write for hayibo dot com dude! Your posts often give me a good laugh.
4 Jun 2010, 16:45 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-158:
Oooooooooooooooo
You so scarey!
4 Jun 2010, 16:46 pm
@willievz(willievz)-157:
Willie, you didn’t answer me on what you think about Heinke at 3.
I think it’s stupid. Heinke is diplomatic…but
well, you can probably guess…
4 Jun 2010, 16:47 pm
@willievz(willievz)-157: I personally reckon the Boks are fine on the experience front come 2011, and a number of them would have played in Europe – Smit, Matfield, BJ, CJ, Steyn, de Villiers etc. I would far rather see a player like Vermeulen or Kankowski go to the World Cup in 2011 than Joe, simply because Joe is a completely unknown quality these days. Watching videos of Toulon play isn’t enough to know how a player will match up.
I agree that Skinstad was a good selection for 2007, but I don’t see the same thing with Joe as being necessary in 2011.
4 Jun 2010, 16:47 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-162:
ADD Dawn, please answer question.
4 Jun 2010, 16:48 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-164:
Joe is being tested.
Our coach wants to see if he still has what it takes.
4 Jun 2010, 16:49 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-163: I also think it is a foolish move.
4 Jun 2010, 16:50 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-165:
Wat is dit nou.
Jy’s soos ‘n vretende kanker.
4 Jun 2010, 16:52 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-168:
My bliksem man! Ek soek my antwoord! op die vorige draad en wat beteken: “go lean on a goal post”? Ek wil nie eendag ‘n faux pas maak nie.
4 Jun 2010, 16:53 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-162: Don’t imprint your desires on to me – I am not a scary doos, no matter how much you may want to lean on one…
4 Jun 2010, 16:55 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-170:
Aaaage nee!
4 Jun 2010, 16:57 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-169:
Man, vra vir HG.
4 Jun 2010, 16:57 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-171: For the record I neither mentioned doos or scarey intitally.
I have just taken them to their logical conclusions for Dawn’s benefit…
4 Jun 2010, 16:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-170:
As if.
4 Jun 2010, 16:58 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-164: We certainly have a lot of quality Super14 loosies in this country, but I am highly sceptical about some of them making the step up.
I believe Potgieter and Louw can. I think Alberts can. I doubt Vermeulen can at this point, maybe later (but will be happy to admit if I am wrong). Kankowski has proved to me that he can’t.
Joe has played extremely well against New Zealand in 2008 in the away leg of the 3N. That is a long time ago in rugby, I admit, but he has too much class and proven ability at international level to be overlooked.
4 Jun 2010, 16:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-173:
You are a repulsive specimen.
4 Jun 2010, 16:59 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-172:
Ok fine! Maar nou op my vraag op die ander draad? My last kommentaar gerid aan jou.
4 Jun 2010, 17:00 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-173:
*sigh* Jaaaa… can’t win, us men, can we? All the doos and don’ts’.
4 Jun 2010, 17:02 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-176: Sorry I am taken… Only women and not those with a desire for scarey doos (your words)
4 Jun 2010, 17:02 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-177:
You are forgiven if …
You have a bakkie with a gun rack and a big dog.
None of that Maltese poodle nonsense.
4 Jun 2010, 17:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-179:
Take it in context.
I didn’t use them in the same sentence.
Are you stupid too?
4 Jun 2010, 17:03 pm
@willievz(willievz)-175: Fair points. It has unfortunately been the case that players who have dominated up north have struggled in the south, so am weary of selecting a player who may backfire. But, as you point out, he has shown his class, and experience wins matches. Would rather have a player with 50 caps on the bench than a player with 3! Will be interesting to see how the backrow goes on Saturday – that is the biggest area of interest in this test in my opinion.
4 Jun 2010, 17:05 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-180:
Afrikaans please, I don’t know if any of those were euphemisms.
4 Jun 2010, 17:06 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-181: You don’t say… It took you a while
So you like scarey doos, gunracks and big dogs… Naah, I’m too conventional… no match here, I’m afraid
4 Jun 2010, 17:07 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-180:
I’ve got a bicycle, a pellet gun and a cat. Does that count?
4 Jun 2010, 17:14 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-182: I have been very worried about our bench selections for the past 3 years now.
This Saturday is no exception.
The identification and selection of the best 7 bench players for the RWC should be as important as the quest for identifying the starting 15 players.
If there is one criticism I have of PDV, it is on this point.
4 Jun 2010, 17:15 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-21: Couldnt agree more, but you missed some additional names there too:
Gurthro,Beast (who are both more dynamic than CJ in loose play)
Bismarck, Bakkies, Becker and Burger. Huge experience and huge potential not there.
Either way though its a pretty strong team, solid as hell pack, wonky backline at scrumhalf, flyhalf and wings. Centres and Fullback dont bother me.
If we control it up front we should win. No reason why not.
4 Jun 2010, 17:19 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-160: no need to be nasty transie!
4 Jun 2010, 17:21 pm
@willievz(willievz)-186: Who would you stick on the bench? You don’t have to give your full team as I will be able to guess who is this team from your bench selections!
The Bulls had their bench perfect this year – this played a big role in their success, especially in winning the games which were close at the end. Part of this was due to du Preez always playing 80 minutes and Hougaard being his back up should he have been injured. Five forwards on the bench was fantastic, although I am not sure if this will work for the Boks.
4 Jun 2010, 17:27 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-189:
Ideally? A-team?(Sorry for butting in) 5/2-2 F/R
16 Smit
17 W Kruger
18 D Rossouw
19 F Louw
20 Hougaard
21 W Olivier
22 D Potgieter
4 Jun 2010, 17:28 pm
Mvovo should be on the bench at least, ditto, Sarel Pretorius, Deysel and maybe a tryout of kids like Lambie. Why you would have Jannie Dup, Chilliboy, Hargreaves, and Bosman warming the bench when you could have:
Werner Kruger, Tiaan Liebenberg/ Gary Botha/ Bandhise Maku, Flip van der Merwe/ Franco van der Merwe/ Anton van Zyl/ Steven Sykes, Doppies la Grange who all deserve a tryout instead? Ditto the above inlcuding Willem Alberts, Joe Pietersen, Rory Kockott.
4 Jun 2010, 17:33 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-190: Interesting. I would go with the same split but with:
16 Bismarck
17 W Kruger
18 D Rossouw
19 F Louw
20 Pienaar (9/10 and at a stretch 15 – the 10 and 15 are barely ever replaced unless injured)
21 du Jongh (12/13 or wing – the wingers are barely ever replaced unless injured)
22 D Potgieter
Perhaps the lack of specialists might come back to bite this bench, but it allows for the forward pack to maintain intensity.
4 Jun 2010, 17:34 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-189: In a nutshell, this is my bench for the RWC:
I will split it 5-2.
Gurthro
Bismarck
Bekker
Rossouw
Burger
Pienaar
Olivier
Van Niekerk doesn’t cut it.
4 Jun 2010, 17:36 pm
@willievz(willievz)-193: Rossouw to cover the backrow? And Pienaar 9 and 10 and Olivier 12 and 13 and maybe wing? Much the same as mine and Stegmannov’s, methinks, same ideas different players.
4 Jun 2010, 17:41 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-194: Yes.
I think a 5-2 split suits SA’s strength better. I have noticed that bringing on 3 bench backline players for Bok teams in the past have significantly reduced the rhythm and fluency on attack and disrupted defensive lines.
If you have Frans Steyn, JDV and Fourie in your starting team you have enough insurance to get away with a 5-2 split.
4 Jun 2010, 17:41 pm
Just saw the pics of Andries Bekker and his mistress. He has to sit down on a park bench, and she has to stand on her tippie-toes just so they can kiss.
Very rambunctious to fall around in broad daylight with your squeeze in public when you’re 2.08 meters tall.
4 Jun 2010, 17:44 pm
@willievz(willievz)-195: Yeah I agree, especially if you have a player like Pienaar who can play 9 and 10. A flyhalf rarely gets replaced unless injured. 5-2 worked well for the Bulls and could work even better with the Boks. I remembe Whitaker made something like 80 test squads for the Aussies without getting a game because of Gregan. His spot could have been better served with another forward to lay the smack down.
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-196: Down right stupid to go cheating on your wife in a park when you are as recognisable as he is.
4 Jun 2010, 17:45 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-192:
well, ours is very similar.
I see you’d prefer Smit over Bismarck, and seeing as neither WO or Jean d Villiers is there I assume WO on? and JdV out?
is this the current situation this year ideally?
Also no Hougaard? on the field?
Who’s your wings?
What’s your loose trio?
4 Jun 2010, 17:52 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Stegmannenov)-198: My wings would either be Habana and JP (dependent on form) or Hougaard (dependent on if he is still playing wing next year) or Gerhard van den Heever (dependent on picking up 5 kgs and learning to smile).
My loose trio would be Spies, Smith and Brussouw or Steggmann – I don’t think Schalk offers as much as either Brussouw or Steggmann and also think he is too much of a hot head to sit on the bench. One of those players who will want to make an impact and take someones head off. (Stormers fans can say what they like, I think there are better flanks than him).
Smit stays my captain and my (well the Springbok’s) hooker. I don’t think Bismarck has been on form this year and appears to have a negative attitude. I also think Smit is better in the scrums and his capataincy also makes him better than Bismarck.
If JDV is available I would start with him and no Olivier on the bench. He has to start or not play, especially with a 5-2 split. If JDV is not available, Olivier to play. If Olivier was to start, JDV on the bench instead of de Jongh.
What about yours?
4 Jun 2010, 17:56 pm
will confess, I’m a little worried about the game
Pages: « 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.