The big debate
1 Jul 2010
Has Chiliboy Ralepelle become a political pawn?
YES
Ollie le Roux, former Springbok prop
‘I think it’s a disgrace that Chiliboy was selected for the Springbok Test against Wales, especially when you consider he only played 20 minutes of Super Rugby this season and is the third-choice hooker at the Bulls.
‘There are so many world-class hookers in South Africa at the moment, with John Smit, Bismarck du Plessis [who’s currently injured], Tiaan Liebenberg, Gary Botha, Adriaan Strauss and Bandise Maku all in great form. Chiliboy’s selection is disrespectful to those hookers who deserve a call-up, as well as to the Bok team.
‘It’s sad for Chiliboy because he obviously doesn’t pick himself, yet he’s the one who has to suffer the consequences.
‘Chiliboy was a great player at age-group level and is earmarked to be the next Bok skipper, but this can’t justify his selection for the Cardiff Test. I can’t even remember what he brings to the field because I never see him play. He needs to go to a union where he will be the first-choice hooker and can prove to people that he deserves to be in the Springbok team.’
NO
Robbie Kempson, former Springbok prop
‘Chiliboy’s selection for the Wales Test was criticised because of his lack of game time in the Super 14 but I didn’t have a problem with it. He’s been sidelined for a long time because of injuries, which has seen him drop below Gary Botha and Bandise Maku in the Bulls’ pecking order at hooker. But keeping him in the Bok mix will help with his development as a player and keep him exposed to the team structures.
‘Chiliboy will also learn from the best players in the country and have the guidance of the Bok coaching staff, who can explain exactly what they want from him. That’s the ideal mentoring an up-and-coming player needs.
‘Unfortunately, he will be under fire because people feel he hasn’t proved that he’s worth a Bok call-up. But if he can make a success out of it, he will win the respect of the public.
‘Chiliboy has to remain focused, work hard, and make the most of his opportunities. He’s a good player with plenty of potential, but he has to make the step up.’
– This article first appeared in the July issue of SA Rugby magazine
506 Comments
1 Jul 2010, 09:56 am
500 plus post Dragon!
1 Jul 2010, 09:56 am
Maaaan *** Ollie Le Roux
1 Jul 2010, 09:57 am
Did someone say prawn ?
where is Wikus when we need him.
1 Jul 2010, 09:58 am
I wonder how much our Bok team will change year after year if we select solely on Super rugby form, and playing time achieved…
1 Jul 2010, 10:00 am
Without entering into the debate: Ollie? Really? After reading Smit’s book Ollie and his petty motives is the last person whose opinion Id attach any value to.
1 Jul 2010, 10:03 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-5:
What is going to be funny is to see how most Chili-haters, who also happen to be the most fierce Ollie haters (from experience), will have to bring themselves to agree with the Burger Man!!!
I am getting my popcorn.
1 Jul 2010, 10:04 am
Chilli should open a pawn shop.
1 Jul 2010, 10:08 am
I doubt it.
So my answer is no.
But must confess i have this niggling thought but won’t give it wings…
1 Jul 2010, 10:09 am
With Ollie & Kempson involved any debate is a ‘big’ debate.
1 Jul 2010, 10:10 am
@racheltjiedebeer(racheltjiedebeer)-7:
Yeah, I wonder how much he’d give for Ollie?
1 Jul 2010, 10:18 am
Who cares?
1 Jul 2010, 10:20 am
Ollie is just worried Chilli will take away his record for most caps won off the bench.
1 Jul 2010, 10:21 am
By Kempson’s reasoning shouldn’t Maku then get the same mentoring advantage as Chiliboy? You can’t give such a benefit to the one and not the other.
1 Jul 2010, 10:27 am
@Katsesnor(Katsesnor)-13:
These ‘debates’ are more like those school debates we used to have.
The teacher (magazine in this instance) picks a topic, picks two pupils (rugby pundits friendly to the magazine in this instance) and tells the one you are pro the topic, and the other anti and they are asked to state a case…
1 Jul 2010, 10:27 am
Chilli the new Shimange???
1 Jul 2010, 10:28 am
I met some of his former school team mates and they were sure that he is the real deal.
Plenty of commitment and talent.
But yes
is the answer IMHO as both Bismarck and Liebeneberg outplayed him THIS YEAR(this will change as hookers tend to get more power as they get older).
This is where it is interesting as if he was left to develop on his own, within 2 years he has enough ability to crack it.
They have pushed him too soon and given him too much “nudge”. This is what killed the very talented “Rose” but as we can see Chili is better player than Rose as he has not choked but gone on to play better.
Go Boy, worked harder to prove yourslef!!!!!
1 Jul 2010, 10:29 am
What’s to debate?
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-6:
Ollie and I may agree that gravity exists too, but that doesn’t mean I suddenly have to become a fan of his.
As for the issue at hand, think a bit deeper, folks.
Ollie is a free agent, he can speak his mind.
Kempson, on the other hand, has a Supersport “commentating” contract to think about. Of COURSE he cannot be honest.
Is there a single Supersport commentator or studio guest who EVER speaks out on the quota issue? Even the usually outspoken John Robbie dances around the issue.
Open your eyes, gentlemen.
1 Jul 2010, 10:30 am
The moment you move away from merit only selection you have the problem that you will be giving a gift of great value to one person amongst many equally “non-entitled” to it.
1 Jul 2010, 10:30 am
Join the dots …… PdV favourite ….. (no, not fat Ricky) …… Barney …… went to school at PBHS …… a few years before …… yes, you got it. Both were Headboy me thinks (but I stand to be corrected).
It cannot be purely political. If it were then Maku would get a shot ahead of Chilli.
1 Jul 2010, 10:33 am
Ollie go eat a Burger!
1 Jul 2010, 10:34 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-14: So true. But this is how they crank up the volume – and hits – here
1 Jul 2010, 10:36 am
There is no justification for Chili’s inclsion other than further “enfranchisement” on the basis of skin colour…
Before selection:
No form
No game time
Third in pecking order for his Club
Probably fifth or sixth in the pecking order for country…
Anyone should get better a if placed in a good setup – deserve to be there on anything other than a dubious link to previous disenfranchisement…NO.
To have attended Pretoria Boys High must mean a player has been really disadvantaged…
1 Jul 2010, 10:38 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-14: when is the opportune time to cut one’s losses on an investment again?
What factors need to be considered?
Can you please run that theory past us futhi
1 Jul 2010, 10:41 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-23:
I am afraid I will be labelled a PDV cheerleader again since I will consider that from a coach’s point of view…
1 Jul 2010, 10:43 am
chilli is a quota X10 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 00 0 0 0 0
1 Jul 2010, 10:44 am
Did Ollie Le Roux deserve to play over 50 tests for the Boks??
1 Jul 2010, 10:47 am
@wpw(wpw)-26: Ollie, though a cnut he was and is, was not 5th or sixth in line for his position when selected…
1 Jul 2010, 10:53 am
I really don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Chilli is 3rd in line after Smit and Bissie, so Tiaan or Gary would be a stopgap measure whilst Bissie is injured. Looking post 2011, Chilli is a better investment than either Tiaan or Gary.
1 Jul 2010, 10:54 am
@David(David)-28:
Shhhhht…
Logic doesn’t have a place here.
1 Jul 2010, 10:55 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-29: LOL!!!
1 Jul 2010, 10:55 am
Ollie’s a plonker, but he’s right.
1 Jul 2010, 10:56 am
I hope not Chilli equals Wynand Olivier try scoring streak during this 3N
1 Jul 2010, 10:56 am
David .. then surely a guy like Duvenhage or Jano Vermaak would be a better investment for the future than old stopgap January?
1 Jul 2010, 10:56 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-29:
Looking pre 2011, Chilli is a beter investment than Gary. Full stop
1 Jul 2010, 10:56 am
@David(David)-28:
no
he is
third
in line
after
botha
and maku
at the
bulls
and
maybe
eighth
in line
for the
bokke
1 Jul 2010, 10:58 am
To quote Ryan Vrede, “There was also an agreement between the Bulls’ and Bok managements to give him game time in the Vodacom Cup”
Heyneke and Chilli chatted pre s14 about it. It was felt best for him to get game time considering his absence from playing 80 minutes of rugga in the last few years.
This 3rd choice thing is a load of bollocks created by journo’s to create hype.
1 Jul 2010, 10:58 am
Ollie’s arse is septic due to the splinters in it! Thus he talking such kaka
1 Jul 2010, 10:59 am
@Bod(bod)-34:
Pre- or post?
@Doppies_better_than_De_jongh(suffer_guy)-33:
Neither of them has been in the Bok setup before.
There is a lot more to weigh up than just the obvious.
1 Jul 2010, 11:01 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-38:
Both…. anything, anytime
1 Jul 2010, 11:01 am
@Oubaas2009(Oubaas2009)-36:
no
it was
created
by the
bulls
and only
reported
by the
media
chilli
is the
number three
hooker
in the
bulls setup
2010
1 Jul 2010, 11:02 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-29:
1 Jul 2010, 11:03 am
Ollie is a dim wit, rent a quote. No doubt he will be propping up the bar at the Mystic Boer tonight regaling stories to the locals of that one time he kicked a conversion in the S12.
He put the splint in splinters.
1 Jul 2010, 11:05 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-38:
then
olivier
surely must
rate
before
de jong
using
that logic
1 Jul 2010, 11:05 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-40: I never knew Ollie was a porra?
1 Jul 2010, 11:06 am
chili is a far better long term prospect than the guys he is ahead of like tiaan and gary.
tiaan and gary will not play at the 2010 wc unless smit and biz are unavailable therefore they are not being considered at present AS LONG TERM OPTIONS.
chili is 23?
the debate around him mirrors the debate around smit throughout his career and i have to LMAO when i consider how that turned out (i sit back and picture a night in 2007 in france, england players standing around dejected, boks grinning and smitty holding bill up for the world to see).
p.s. chili has certainly not disgraced himself this year against france and wales (and italy).
1 Jul 2010, 11:06 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-24: you, perturbed by labels? I would’ve never thought.
Tacitus defends most blue bulls players bar chiliboy, i wonder why?
1 Jul 2010, 11:06 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-43:
He should.
I agree.
1 Jul 2010, 11:06 am
@Doppies_better_than_De_jongh(suffer_guy)-33:
The situation is different. Chili is 3rd in line, Ricky 2nd. But I agree that we need to start looking for a new scrummie now for post 2011, as I doubt whether FdP or Ricky will be around.
1 Jul 2010, 11:07 am
not that
ollie
is a
sharp tool
let’s
forget
who said
what
chilli
is a
political
pawn
in a
political
porn show
1 Jul 2010, 11:07 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-46: Because he is not a merit selection…?
1 Jul 2010, 11:08 am
@Oubaas2009(Oubaas2009)-44:
he
supports
us well
1 Jul 2010, 11:09 am
@NOTHING GUY(NOTHING GUY)-19:
Chili was first team captain not headboy.
1 Jul 2010, 11:10 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-46:
because
there are
two better
bull
no 2′s
1 Jul 2010, 11:10 am
A simple test … :
Where in SA will Chilli be first choice? :
1. Bulls – never
2. Stormer – no
3. Sharks – no
4. Lions – maybe
5. Cheetahs – not really
1 Jul 2010, 11:10 am
“I can’t even remember what he brings to the field because I never see him play” LOLLLLL – Ollie has spoken a lot of bllshite in his time, but this time not…
1 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
@Oubaas2009(Oubaas2009)-42: Actually, he kicked a few. Even once for the Boks. (And nobody above 25 will be bored enough to go to Mystic Boer…)
I don’t like Ollie, but if you read his entire post you’ll agree with him. It isn’t fair to be a 3rd choice at your own S14 franchise and jump to 2 choice Springbok hooker. BUT, he also said Chilli is a good player, and should move to another franchise where he is first choice.
He’s not saying anything different from what we’re all saying: Chili’s being wasted at the Bulls.
1 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-43:
But I think you missed the point.
He asked about two uncapped players, not part of the setup at all, and you raised an example of a player very much part of the setup – either that or I am having trouble reading your posts (which is not new).
@Transformation(Transformation)-46:
Nah not really but I would rather let others state the obvious.
I am not really in the mood for serious rugby discussions today believe it or not!!!
But now that you mentioned the Bulls example I find it interesting that where FDP is openly believed to take young Hougaard under his wing he is (for most) the automatic successor to FDP.
We know John (as stated in the past) has done the same with Chili but in no way is that the same…
1 Jul 2010, 11:12 am
@Observer(tbannaz)-52: Sounds like Chiliboy has a sad history of disenfranchisement that needs to be rectified – “Chili was first team captain not headboy”. Never mind, SARU are doing their best…
1 Jul 2010, 11:13 am
Ok, so those that think Chilli is a political pawn and 3rd choice?
Why not select Maku then?
Is it because dare I say it, Chilli is a better player than Maku?
As I said before, it was agreed by Heyneke & Chilli that he needed game time this season. So he played Vodacom.
The Bulle have created this by selecting a flank at hooker last year, ahead of both Maku and Chilli. Where is Derek Kuun now? 2nd choice flank?
1 Jul 2010, 11:13 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-35: No.
Chilli is third in
line at the Boks.
Not 8th.
PDV selects
the Boks.
Not
you.
Never have.
Never
will.
1 Jul 2010, 11:14 am
@Doppies_better_than_De_jongh(suffer_guy)-54: At the Cheetahs…. over Strauss and Strauss plus whatever human tractor jack they might unearth around Senekal – not likely…
1 Jul 2010, 11:14 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-57:
then cap
them
same as
de jong
my point
is
double standards
and anybody
with half
a brain
know
it’s
politics
1 Jul 2010, 11:15 am
@Doppies_better_than_De_jongh(suffer_guy)-54: Lions definitely. Sharks, John’s possibly retiring after WC and Bismarck leaving overseas… definitely a possibility!
1 Jul 2010, 11:15 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-60:
third
because of
politics
eighth
if politics
made way
for
merit
1 Jul 2010, 11:17 am
Also Chilli must be like a broher to John Smit (with his family etc paying for Chilli’s education) maybe John also has a big say in this
1 Jul 2010, 11:17 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-61: Only one Strauss left, but agreed: he’ll have a tough time beating Strauss (who should be 2nd choice Springbok hooker) and this new kid PW van Vuuren, who’s apparently a freak.
1 Jul 2010, 11:18 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-64:
sorry maybe
seventh
bis
then smit
botha
liebenberg
maku
straus
yes 7th
1 Jul 2010, 11:21 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-64: But thats
your opinion
You are
not
a Springbok
selector
or coach
You know that
saying
bout opinions
and holes?
This may come
as a surprise
But your opinion
doesnt matter
to the Bok
brain trust
Really
Its sad
I know
1 Jul 2010, 11:22 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-58: Point is with out the correct knowledge your deductions are fabricated.
Chili did not get out played at the bulls this year – he was injured. Should he have been picked in the original squad? probably not! In hindsight was it the incorrect decision? definitely not! He has played extremely well thus far this international season. Would Gary or Tian have played better or contributed more? I doubt it. Should they have been given the opportunity to try? In my opinion, going forward, no.
For me Tian is a bit of a one hit wonder, much the same as lucus van biljoen.
Gary and chili are remarkably similar, where do you think chili learned to play. he is just the newer, shinier version. Gary will always have been extremely unlucky. Much like Steward McGill.
1 Jul 2010, 11:24 am
Ag, at the end of the day, Chilli is the 2nd choice hooker for the Boks at the moment.
You may not like that, but its a fact, check the papers.
So deal with it OR have some cheese with your wine…
And Ollie shut your piehole.
1 Jul 2010, 11:25 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-68:
the
springbok
brain trust
then rather
play
politics
that’s
just as
sad
as them
not consulting
my brilliant
mind
1 Jul 2010, 11:25 am
Its time this Porras knees got broken… he is getting far too windgat
1 Jul 2010, 11:26 am
@Observer(tbannaz)-69: It amazes me how some justify positive discrimination…
Knowledge = not first choice at the Bulls…? Fact or not?
Never mind, it is snug and comfortably dark from the ostriches point of view when head is in sand…
1 Jul 2010, 11:27 am
@Bod(bod)-72:
you won’t
even
get past
my mother
never mind
my
cuzzins
1 Jul 2010, 11:27 am
@Bod(bod)-72: Reminds me of Ronaldo
1 Jul 2010, 11:29 am
@Bouts(Bouts)-66: Dont’t tell me – plucked from a beef farm, with a rear tractor tyre on one shoulder while delicately swinging the misbehaving escaped hefer back over the electric fence…
1 Jul 2010, 11:32 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-74:
I have connections in Bez Valley that can shape out a baseball bat with their bare teeth.
Baseball bats break knees.
Watch your mother and cuzzins carefully…
1 Jul 2010, 11:33 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-71: Ok. This writing style of yours takes up to much time so Im gonna revert back to normal. The point has been made that were it to have been a political issue Maku would have been a better choice. That doesnt mean its not a political selection. Maybe they back Chilli like Jake White backed Meyer Bosman (picked of the Free State bench). Maybe they are picking him as a token. We dont know. Anything on our sides is speculation and opinion. In my opinion Id have Gary Botha as John Smit’s deputy. But thats just my opinion. Sadly, the Boks brain trust attach as little relevance to my opinion as they do to yours.
1 Jul 2010, 11:34 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-62:
Nah I am having real difficulty grasping your logic.
Wynand who was the only real option at 12 (given JDV only came back from Munster after the Super 14) left quite a void at 12.
So sensibly the other 12 in the Super 14 who showed good form was brought in.
At 9 (since you mentioned Vermaak who missed half the Super rugby season this year) we have Januarie and Ruan in the team to cover 9 so there is plenty of cover given FDP will be back.
I see no need to cap someone if we are covered already.
But ja, difficulty reading your posts again I am sure but I dont get it.
1 Jul 2010, 11:34 am
@Bod(bod)-77:
watch your
connections
they
may be
my cuzzins
1 Jul 2010, 11:36 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-73: Positive discrimination? is there such a thing? Discrimination is negative. Thus when it is positive it becomes something completely different. It becomes an informed choice. A choice that i agree with in this case. hindsight will prove that!
“not first choice at the Bulls…?” not fact! that is your opinion. when fit (granted not often), who is better? Gary? maybe, but they have not competed, both fit, since Gary let to quins.
1 Jul 2010, 11:41 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-62: let me understand you, are you saying De jongh’s selection ahead of Wynand is political?
1 Jul 2010, 11:41 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-79:
i’ll try
to do it
slowly
it comes
down
to
double standards
centre
has been
handled
correctly
scrumhalf
and definitely
hooker
not
but like
i say
anybody
with brains
know why
here endeth
the
lesson
1 Jul 2010, 11:42 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-82:
no
read
no 83
1 Jul 2010, 11:44 am
why did jake also keep on selecting chiliboy?
1 Jul 2010, 11:47 am
@Observer(tbannaz)-81: “positive discrimination” is a term used by many a commie inclined liberal with delusions of grandeur – much like “affirmative action” or “rectifying the previously disavantaged” – nice words to excuse the inexusable. A thin whisker away from “separate development” and “final solution”…
If… there is a great set of words accompanying the word “If” by the “colonialist” Kipling… Chili, by that standard is no man…
When has Chiliboy ever been 1st choice at the Bulls other than at age group level…
I think you are groping for mammaries that are just out of reach here…
1 Jul 2010, 11:48 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-85:
because
chilli
was earmarked
as the
first
black
bok captain
and if it
worked
according to
plan
one hundred
percent
but it sort
of stuttered
to a
standstill
and now
they try
to get it
started
again
but it’s
not really
working
good luck
to them
1 Jul 2010, 11:48 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-85: He was forced to…?
Similarly with Luke the puke…?
1 Jul 2010, 11:51 am
@Bod(bod)-72: Naah, the Porra of Zen is just missing a little bit of Gunther’s proverbial “Dead Badger”…
1 Jul 2010, 11:52 am
Again the two situations are completely different.
At 12 we were in trouble (no decent back up) but at 9 and 2 we have more than enough back-up, experienced back up nonetheless.
I ask the question, what would Gary or Maku have brought to the Bok setup Chili is not currently delivering on?
We know Bismarck brings something totally different hence is the official number 2 just injured at the moment.
1 Jul 2010, 11:52 am
The interesting thing about the furore surrounding Chili is that another ex SA u/21 player with a similar pedigree has found his way into PdeVs larger squad, in Hargreaves. Apart from the odd “he’s K@K” comment, people have been noticeably less critical about this choice due no doubt that being white, the quota label doesn’t apply. I realise Hargreaves is currently first choice at the Sharks, but that’s meaningless considering their other lock choices.
1 Jul 2010, 11:52 am
this sorry mess highlights the problem that pdv has. talented players of colour is for reason not being brought through to senior provincial level after performing at junior level.
1 Jul 2010, 11:54 am
@David(David)-91:
you’re right
hargreaves
is
kak
1 Jul 2010, 11:55 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-90: Reliability…? Less risk of discontinuity through injury… Even better scrummaging…? Better tight play…? Better loose play… ? And on, and on…
1 Jul 2010, 11:55 am
@David(David)-91:
But that is just it.
If you want to justify an out of the ordinary white selection it is just one of those things.
And out of the ordinary black selection is politically motivated.
1 Jul 2010, 11:56 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-89:
It appears this version of the Porra has moved out of Bez Valley and stepped up the ante.
To quote…. “here endeth the lesson”… rather eloquent and definitely not your average Bez Valley dead badger type.
1 Jul 2010, 11:58 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-90:
because
chilli
is clearly
used
for political
purposes
and he was
no 3
at the
bulls
that is there
for all
to see
i mean
botha on
current form
may have
brought
a lot
more
than chilli
but he
was never
even
considered
so we won’t
know
the only
thing
we know
is that both
he and
maku
kept chilli
out of
the s14
bull team
1 Jul 2010, 11:59 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-94:
Based on what?
Your opinion only?
Our scrums looked great against France and Italy, better than what they have in years and that against two of the better European packs in the 6N.
I cannot remember us losing many line outs.
I do not remember Chili shying away from any contact, make mistakes in contact either on defense or offense either.
Given what we have seen in two tests from Chili can you actually back up the fact that Gary or Maku’s contribution in any of those areas are significantly better than what Chili’s was?
Injury?
Please, any player can get injured climbing off the team bus.
1 Jul 2010, 11:59 am
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-93: Hey Porra – why do you write in Haiku china?
Its very difficult to read…
1 Jul 2010, 12:00 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-97:
See 98.
What did Botha bring in the Super 14 that was significantly different from what Chili brought in two tests we have seen him?
1 Jul 2010, 12:00 pm
@David(David)-91: It is a silly choice, but does give some cover for the Chili selection… (Haven’t you heard the ones about “PdV is selecting players from his Age group side who he knows and trusts”).
SARU are at most times a bunch of clowns but there is some strategy going on, a bit obvious though… Force through the one player by letting him ride on the other player as Trojan horse…
1 Jul 2010, 12:01 pm
@Bod(bod)-96:
I understand he’s just franchised his fruit and vegetable shop and is moving up the social ladder.
1 Jul 2010, 12:02 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-83: What you are getting wrong is to assume that Gary Botha is better than Chilliboy, given a fit Gary Botha and a fit Chilliboy, there is no contest in my mind who is better, and its not Gary.
Based on my opinion, Botha is actually the third choice hooker at the Bulls, so WTF is he being played ahead of a fit Maku and Ralapelle?, is it fair for me and my fellow black brothers to believe that its white afrikaaners looking after each other?
1 Jul 2010, 12:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-101:
I never took you for a conspiracy theorist. :LOL:
1 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-100:
botha
and maku
obviously
brought
more than
chilli
to the
s14
so for
any reasonable
and logical
person
they would
bring more
to the
boks
1 Jul 2010, 12:05 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-73: If you say Chilli is not first choice at the Bulls, why is that so?, is it ability?, is it because of injuries?,is it because Afrikaaners are looking after each other, here I’m referring to the pedestrian Botha and a failed flank forward being picked ahead of young explosive black hookers.
1 Jul 2010, 12:06 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-103:
you see
it’s a
race thing
to you
and you
so you can’t be
objective
1 Jul 2010, 12:07 pm
I for 1 like to read these debates and not comment but against better judgement I will…
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-64:
If I
was
Bulls
Coach then
Chilli
would be
my
first
choice.
It’s called
preference…
not merit…
do not confuse
the two.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-73:
Discrimination against Chilli by the Bulls management (Choosing a flanker, Kuun, as 1st choice when Chilli was fit & available)
or
Discrimination in favour of Chilli (Being selected to the Boks over Gary, Strauss etc)
Some were amazed at how a flanker (“a favourite”) was preferred over available hookers at the Bulls, but they kept quiet and did not shout “Discrimination”
Some are now amazed at how Chilli gets selected over other “favourites” and they are shouting “Discrimination”…
Take note that I have not used “1st choice” anywhere in my assessment of the situation…
1 Jul 2010, 12:07 pm
@David(David)-91:
Hargreaves wasn’t even chosen (initially) for the Sharks’ S14 tour to NZ and Australia.
I mean Wilhelm Steenkamp (a loaned player from the Bulls) was even selected ahead of him.
Which means he was effectively 4th choice at the Sharks!!
Sykes
Muller
Steenkamp
And yet he still made the Bok squad. No outcry about his selection though! Strange one!!
1 Jul 2010, 12:07 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-98:
Almost spot on.
You need to elaborate the fact that our scrum against France actually went BETTER in the second half. Co-incidental??
Can someone remind me when last we lost a lineout on a Chilliboy throw??
I do recall our hooker turning over two balls in that second half against France…
I have never seen Chilliboy turbo reversed in the loose at international levels unlike a certain Gary Botha was
Whats this debate all about??
1 Jul 2010, 12:08 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-108:
well
i’m glad
you’re not
bulls coach
then
1 Jul 2010, 12:09 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-92:
I agree. PdeV has openly stated that he wants a more representative side, and he’s going about it in a sensible manner, that hasn’t endangered the Boks. Sure, he made some mistaken selections on the EOYT games against 2 club sides, but he admitted he’d made a mistake in his assessment of the players ability to step up a level.
1 Jul 2010, 12:09 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-103:
Uyakhumbula ndisithi kuwe uMxoli should move to hooker coz that’s where his future lies? guess what, Alan Solomons has seen the light and he’ll be playing hooker on Saturday against the bulls
1 Jul 2010, 12:10 pm
@Bod(bod)-110:
I think he lost one against Italy.
1 Jul 2010, 12:10 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-105:
Well thanks Captain Obvious.
Of course they did, they played there.
My question was quite specific and simple if you care to answer that.
@Bod(bod)-110:
I dont know I lost the punchline.
1 Jul 2010, 12:12 pm
@wpw(wpw)-109:
To be fair, you must differentiate between 4 & 5 lock. I’m not even too sure which one Hargreaves fits into.
1 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-106: Either way it is a race issue. You say he is not the 1st choice at the Bulls cause he isn’t Afrikaans, I say he is only in the bok setup cause he is black.
1 Jul 2010, 12:14 pm
Guthro & Werner looked better in this years Super 14 vs the CC last year … Thanks to G Botha. .. i know Kuun was hooker in the CC, but still … G Botha is yster … 10 times betetr than chilli
1 Jul 2010, 12:14 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-115:
the minute
i posted
i knew
you will
misread
either
intentionally
or not
let me
rephrase
botha
and maku
obviously
brought
more than
chilli
to the
bulls
note bulls
1 Jul 2010, 12:14 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-107: You say “its other reasons” or “political” , I call it what it is, then suddenly its a race thing to me, because I refuse to call it “other reasons”.
If to you its not a race thing, what are your “other reasons”
1 Jul 2010, 12:16 pm
now i go
to the
undertaker
1 Jul 2010, 12:17 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-119:
And I said that is obvious – since they played for the Bulls ahead of Chili.
But my question was comparing what Chili brought (at test level) to what Gary or Maku brought (at Super 14 level) in 2010 so far and explaining to me what would either one of them have brought extra to the team Chili has not already given us?
I am not reading what I just want to, you are just answering what you want to.
1 Jul 2010, 12:17 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-120:
obviously
political
reasons
but then
politics
in sa
is all about
race
1 Jul 2010, 12:17 pm
@mxhosa(mxhosa)-113: Yes, ndiyakhumbula.
1 Jul 2010, 12:20 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-122:
hey you
listen good
i wanna go
to the
undertaker
they were
better
than chilli
whole season
so they
logically
would have
brought more
to the
bokke
1 Jul 2010, 12:20 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-117: Agreed, herein lies the irony, I know its my opinion, I dont dare try and sell it as fact.
1 Jul 2010, 12:21 pm
Bok favourites. Regardless of race these players get more opportunities, because of their junior days.
Hargreaves
Pottgieter
Chilliboy
These are the blue-eyed boys of springbok rugby. They can do no wrong and merit means nothing to these guys.
1 Jul 2010, 12:22 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-98: You’re making an error of omission…
Compare apples with apples and all that… What did Chilli do to be chosen as the no 2. hooker in South Africa in the first instance…? Did he perform better than Botha or Liebenburg in the S14 – supposedly the prime indicator of form for Bok selection… ?
Was it because the Bulls management did not give him the “opportunity” to take his “rightful place” at the top of the pecking order as hooker for the Bulls S14… Was Botha unfairly favored at the Bulls… Was Maku unfairly favoured at the Bulls…
Considering the Stormer flavour of the Boks, it is hugely “unlucky” that Liebenburg was not selected as hooker for the Boks…
It is a wonder that the player market is not clamouring for a player of the “stature” of Chiliboy… Are journo’s not reporting on this, or covering up the huge interest in our Chili, or is it such that Chili is not as highly valued as some other SA hookers… If so, why?
It may be that Chili is falsely valued at this stage by those who have determined he should be in the Bok squad… “you can fool some, some of the time….etc”
Imagine if the Boks and a test match could be used as an experimental incubator for all players out there… Heard the one about if a chimpanzee could live forever, place it in front of a typewriter, and eventually its random typing could produce Shakespeare….
Try it enough and a decent performance could be engineered fr anyone – even Chili…. Reliability and consistent performance withot injury – I think not… The moment Chili is made Bok no.1 hooker – I could place a safe bet that he would be injured within 3 games…
1 Jul 2010, 12:24 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-111:
and I’m
glad you
Porra
are not
the Springbok
coach…
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-106: @XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-103:
Snap Bra! I took so long writing my post inbetween work that at the end I did not need to… you said it all.
now I’m out… I’ll keep an eye on the debate though…
1st choice this, 3rd choice that… 8th choice there… and that according to some is a FACT!!
This “1st Choice” argument is really meaningless IMO… whose 1st choice? yours or mine?… Ludeke or PdV?… his or her?
… etc etc etc…
1 Jul 2010, 12:25 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-108: your point, explicitly…?
Excuse the selection of a player who is not the best in his position by giving an example of another player where that has happened…
That doesn’t make sense…
1 Jul 2010, 12:27 pm
i really don’t get this, if pdv was under pressure to have a black hooker in the team, the easiest thing would’ve been placing maku on the bench and leave chili to play currie cup.
The phantom politicians i assume would be happy & the “traditional rugby watching demographic” would also be merely placated.
Then why select the contentious chiliboy?
1 Jul 2010, 12:28 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-128: Great post.
1 Jul 2010, 12:29 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-130: Its called setting up a straw man… akahlakaniphile na!
1 Jul 2010, 12:30 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-132: Good man. Strange how some of us think alike
1 Jul 2010, 12:30 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-105:
Like Wynand Olivier brought to the Boks in his 28 tests?? Oh wait!!
1 Jul 2010, 12:31 pm
If this is even remotely close to actual stats, then merit is completely out the window. These stats from Wiki:
Playing career
Position Hooker
Provincial/State sides
Years Club / team Caps (points)
2006-Present Blue Bulls 16 (5)
Super Rugby
Years Club / team Caps (points)
2005-Present Bulls 18 (5)
National team(s)
Years Club / team Caps (points)
2006-Present Springboks 10 (0)
1 Jul 2010, 12:31 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-131: Is Chilboy’s dad a tendertrepeneur by any chance…? Or is his family connected…?
There is a precedenct for this – Lukepuke…
1 Jul 2010, 12:32 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-130:
Try John Smit when he was chosen as Bok captain, or a young Jaques Fourie at wing based on Jakes belief in him.
1 Jul 2010, 12:33 pm
The fact of the matter is Chili hasn’t produced the goods in the last five or six years. That’s a long time to keep peddling the “potential” tag. But the transformation fanatics will only see that and nothing else. Gary Botha is a proven superior to Chili. Even if he was fit, would it make any difference, there are other technical areas to his game that just haven’t been where it needs to be, and this can’t be blamed on injuries. When all is said and done, he simply isn’t good enough, we haven’t seen even a flash of his age-group form, but that goes with many players who never make the next step up, but racists will keep pushing him into the Bok side regardless because they want to see things in him that aren’t there, and try to use him to prove a point and yet again try to prove us wrong. But it just costs the team, like the 3rd Lions test, the demolition job on Chili at scrum time gave them the platform to defeat us. When will they learn that the Boks are not a vehicle for personal vendetas.
1 Jul 2010, 12:35 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-128:
Did he perform better than Botha or Liebenburg in the S14 – supposedly the prime indicator of form for Bok selection… ? Prime but not the only indicator… Frans & JvN did not play S14…
“Try it enough and a decent performance could be engineered fr anyone – even Chili…”… you may be right… now if only we could get Wynand O to engineer this kind of performance for the Boks!
I’ve heard this saying here before “Form is temp.. and Class is Perm..” that means someone somewhere (read Bok Management) thinks that Chilli is class… this answers a few of your questions…
1 Jul 2010, 12:36 pm
@David(David)-138: I don’t get yor point – John Smit was good for the team not only on the basis of his proven playing ability, but also for his leadership skills… Jaque Fourie was an experimentation at a different position, like Aplon – no argument there, but the case of Chili is different…
Clutching at straws…?
1 Jul 2010, 12:36 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-139: Do you care to expand on those “technical areas” you are referring to, I would love to know, in fact a **** load of us here would kill to know.
1 Jul 2010, 12:39 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-125:
Logically?
What logic do you apply to that?
Logic I choose to apply is to compare as best I could. That would mean what happens on the park when both play – and in this instance one area was the Super 14, and the other the recent tests.
Otherwise there is now way to measure each player.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-128:
Let’s try this as posted:
Compare apples with apples and all that… What did Chilli do to be chosen as the no 2. hooker in South Africa in the first instance…? Did he perform better than Botha or Liebenburg in the S14 – supposedly the prime indicator of form for Bok selection… ?
Was it because the Bulls management did not give him the “opportunity” to take his “rightful place” at the top of the pecking order as hooker for the Bulls S14… Was Botha unfairly favored at the Bulls… Was Maku unfairly favoured at the Bulls…
Considering the Stormer flavour of the Boks, it is hugely “unlucky” that Liebenburg was not selected as hooker for the Boks…
The Boks and Bulls are two different teams, coached by two different coaches, each with their own management and game styles and both looking for results which needs to be delivered by those they select to achieve this.
Fair enough so far?
The Bulls rate player A over player B.
The reasons for this can be anything to the type of game they play, player and team strengths, how players compliments specific combinations and execution of plans or plays.
What exactly they require or look for we can only speculate, since none of us know.
They invest money, time and faith in all their players and selections and look for returns on those investments.
That is just the most obvious of arguably 100 things coaches have to take into consideration when selecting players since we did not even touch on conditioning, fitness, injury etc.
Most importantly however is that both the players and the coaches will only be judged on the results they achieve in practice, or on the pitch.
As long as a coach and player produces on what has been invested in them, the reason for change is minimal.
The question however remains how one can judge one coach being more right than the other – which seems to be the case here.
It seems a general acceptance that a union or franchise coach is more right in his selections, or certain selections and players are more justified in a national setup, based on the decisions made at provincial level.
So who is right and why?
Is Ludeke more right than De Villiers for selecting Botha over Chili? Or is De Villiers more right for selecting Chili over Botha? And if you can find a case for either one the most obvious question I will raise then is why?
Fact is, both are either right, or wrong given the results (on the field) or the return on their investment on those selections.
The time those investments does not show a positive return in results, then one can question the merits of those selections.
So to me there is no case to criticise Ludeke for selecting Botha above Chili – both he and Gary got the results.
Similarly, we can’t crit Peter either, because the scenario is exactly the same.
It is a wonder that the player market is not clamouring for a player of the “stature” of Chiliboy… Are journo’s not reporting on this, or covering up the huge interest in our Chili, or is it such that Chili is not as highly valued as some other SA hookers… If so, why?
It may be that Chili is falsely valued at this stage by those who have determined he should be in the Bok squad… “you can fool some, some of the time….etc”
Are we now judging the values of players according to how many offers they get and the values (monetary) of those offers?
Surely not.
Again I refer you to what I posted above.
Your opinion is the Chili is falsely valued, yet from where I sit Chili shows a positive return whenever on the park for the Boks whenever he takes the field (only place he can repay the investment taken in him).
So how do you then value the investment or value of players.
Apples with apples?
Not from where I sit sorry.
The moment Chili is made Bok no.1 hooker – I could place a safe bet that he would be injured within 3 games…
Can you give me the winning numbers for this Friday’s PowerBall draw too please?
1 Jul 2010, 12:40 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-140: Not really,
No,
And so..
So 0 out of 3… this would normally mean failure but you can adjust using a curve to account for relative stoopidity in a tested population… You know, like teachers used to do adjust for schools that were more stoopid than others…
Here I will do it to account for habital schools of thought and for blindness caused by head in the sand…
1 Jul 2010, 12:41 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-130:
I apologise about the lack of clarity in my post HG
… I was only trying to understand this “1st choice” theory… 
1 Jul 2010, 12:42 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-123: “but then politics in sa is all about race” hahaha what would you prefer politics in south africa to be about porrageezer? People were previously excluded from playing for the Springboks according to what criteria, fat, thin, vegetarian, religion? Gtfoh
1 Jul 2010, 12:44 pm
I don’t think this issue is as clearcut as it seems. Another variable in the equation is the trade-off between the current and the future.
The problem with labelling Chilli as a quota is that he has been part of the Bok setup for a very long time. PDV could argue that this could very well be a case of consistency in selection.
As I’ve said before on this blog, being the first-choice player for your province does not mean that you are necessarily a better choice at international level than the guy that sits at the bench provincially. The Januarie / Duvenhage scenario locally or the Shontayne Hape / Olly Barkly scenario in England are classic examples of this. Selections depend on various factors, including the specific gameplan a coach wants to employ or past familiarity with an existing structure.
Chilliboy and Januarie are both familiar with the Springbok gameplan, structures and everyday lifestyle and culture. They know the drills – being there, done that, got the T-shirt. Even if the T-shirt, in Chilliboy’s case, only have stains from about 200 minutes of game time.
In addition, Chilliboy is blooded as a national player post 2011, together with players such as Hargreaves, De Jongh and Potgieter. Therefore, giving them exposure now makes sense from a long-term perspective.
The problem with selecting Chilliboy over players such as Liebenberg and Gary Botha at current is simply because the latter two have proved their worth in the Super14, whereas Chilliboy has not.
However, what have we got to gain from picking Liebenberg and Gary Botha now? They could be better choices for the 3N this year, surely. But they might not be available for the 2015 RWC, and the second-choice Bok hooker, Bismarck, will go to NZ if ready.
We should ask ourselves if we are putting the cart in front of the horse by focusing on the future rather than the present. Do we care more about the future than the present?
If yes (and I suspect it is yes), we should ask another question: Is the national setup a place to give future players exposure or should the very best players still play at current despite their age and the declining marginal utility they can bring to the table in future?
PDV should also seriously ask himself – if both FDP and John Smit are injured and not available for the RWC 2011, will he start with Januarie and bench Chilliboy? Ruan Pienaar became the backup for FDP in the latter stages of the 2007 RWC and overtook Januarie, who warmed the bench for the bulk of the season. In hindsight, it is very difficult to argue that Januarie was not a quota selection in 2007 before the RWC.
I would bet my bottom dollar that PDV is still wary about his replacements, despite claiming otherwise in recent times. He is a very brave man by trying to predict future Bok teams and giving them exposure in current setups. But high risk investments often have the highest returns. Let’s hope the stockmarket does not crash.
1 Jul 2010, 12:44 pm
@David(David)-138:
John instantly proved Jake right, as well as Fourie. In fact Jake was very rarely wrong, the only times he never got it right was when trying to test players out to build depth, depth which just wasn’t there at that time. Chili has never played a good game for the Boks, never shown anything like it. That’s since 2005. That’s a long time, so the comparison to Jake is flawed from the outset.
1 Jul 2010, 12:46 pm
@willievz(willievz)-147:
Well yes.
The investment in players (based on selection) goes beyond the obvious as I mentioned before.
1 Jul 2010, 12:48 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-141:
How old was John when he was first selected for the Boks??
Was it for his leadship skills??
Hold old was Chilli and wasn’t he the captain of the SA U21 side at the time??
Didn’t Jake say that Chilli will more than likely captain the Boks one day??
1 Jul 2010, 12:50 pm
David Blaine is reportedly furious after Bafana crashed out of the
World Cup – his record of doing absolutely nothing in a box for 42
days was broken by Steven Pienaar.
- The Bafana team visited an orphanage in Cape Town today. “It’s
heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope,” said Jamal,
aged six.
- What’s the difference between the bafana team and a tea bag? The
tea bag stays in the cup longer.
- Perreira was wheeling his shopping trolley across the
supermarket car park when he noticed an old lady struggling with her
bags of shopping. He stopped and asked, “Can you manage dear?” To
which the old lady replied: “No way. You got yourself into this mess.
Don’t ask me to sort it out!”
- What do you call an South African in the knockout stages of the World
Cup? A referee.
- I can’t believe we only managed a draw against a rubbish team we
should easily have beaten. . . . I’m ashamed to call myself Mexican
- What does the South African do when Bafana wins the World Cup? He
switches off the Play Station.
1 Jul 2010, 12:51 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-149: Ahh, just scrolled through your mammoth 143 post now.
1 Jul 2010, 12:51 pm
Chilly was not necessarily 3rd choice at the Bulls. He was injured and only played 4 games at the end of the season. It would not have made sense to pick him for the S14 coming back from a long injury lay off.
However, Chilly needs to play. I’m glad he got a chance to play in the recent tests. If he is just going to warm the bench for the Boks, he will be better off playing CC.
1 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
if chilli captains the boks one day .. then f&(ck knows where our rugby will end up … probably like banana banana nr 80 in the world
1 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
What is at question here is the value of merit. I believe everybody being equal, on merit, Chilliboy shouldn’t be picked. However I do not think this is a racial thing. Merit has for a long time been overlooked, because of the perceived long term potential of one player over another. Examples of this:
Pottgieter
Hargreaves
Chilliboy
Now whether this is the right decision only time will tell, but one guy who was given preferential treatment (still is) is Schalk and he has produced the goods.
Schalk was picked for the 2003 WC over an in form Luke Watson, not having played provincial senior level.
As a rule I don’t believe in these blue-eyed boys. I believe you should 1st prove you are ready through performance. Everybody deserves a fair chance. Look at Morne Steyn, never a blue-eyed boy, people said he choked, now he is the 1st name on the team sheet.
1 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-144:
you are a hoot my friend… funny fella…
the only this is that you are writing past my arguments… I was answering your questions by the way..
s14 form is the the prime selection point…hence the mention of Frans Steyn and Joe and BJ etc..
secondly…WO has not yet “engineered” the kind of s14/CC form for the Boks that everyone, in your view, can… so your theory is offish there… and..
oh… there… read Pissants reply…@143… my sentiments exactly… I guess I’m not as articulate in dumbing down to the masses as he is…
…
1 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
@willievz(willievz)-152:
Sorry, it is only big because I copied heaven’s post in their too.
1 Jul 2010, 12:54 pm
@Doppies_better_than_De_jongh(suffer_guy)-154: Chilly allready captained the Boks! LMAO
1 Jul 2010, 12:54 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-148: I and many other posters still await your expansion with regards to other “technical” areas……
1 Jul 2010, 12:57 pm
@willievz(willievz)-147:
de Villier’s selections reveal that he has no plans regarding structures or future development. It’s very haphazard and usually wrong. He has time and again revealed his stance with “players of colour”, if they don’t perform then it’s someone elses fault and they should be picked regardless. Chili was played twice under Jake, and then under de Villiers years later. He has very little experience and has brought nothing to the table. Earl Rose could learn the structures too, and spend time learning from the best players, but it won’t make him any better. A player can only go so far and it is very clear that Chili is straining to keep level with his peers. Maybe one day he’ll prove me wrong, everyone has the potential for great things, but it is a million to one shot chance of happening. And it’s foolish to select a player on the basis of what they “might be able to do” or are “potentially capable of” if they never EVER show it.
1 Jul 2010, 12:58 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-143: Chilli’s projected injury is being kind considering evidence of his historical injury record… So maybe I was exaggerating with 3 games. Maybe 1 or 2 max?
If you read a useful little book on “How to measure anything” you try and measure intangibles by using a proxy (They measured the size of the blast of the first A-bomb test using the spread of confetti). Market value would be a good comparator but taking into account and adjusting for the leagues that other hookers play – eg SA hookers/front row in GP UK, SA hookers in S14… Compared across teams and adjusting for the overall inflation of salaries for different teams e.g. Sharks pay more than Free State… This powerball would lead me to a conclusion that Chili is definitely not in the top 5…
The Bulls coaching setup (probably the best in SA – using their recent record as measure) don’t rate Chili as high as they do Botha… Simple… You can speculate how they come to that conclusion but the fact is their “ratings” must have validity…
Anything else… or are you going to copy and past my commentary again
1 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-159:
His poor lineout throwing, poor hands, and technical flaws at scrum time.
1 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-155:
Again that is the obvious.
Players needing to prove themselves first.
Of course it plays a part and is important, but it is not even close to being the only consideration when selecting players.
Selecting a player is like investing in stocks.
Depending on your needs, either short term growth or results or more longer term results, you base decision best suited to your needs.
Of course not all investment show a return, the trick is to dump those that will cost you and that is what most coaches will do instinctively.
What you also find is that you will mix and match the two to strengthen your overall portfolia as coach in managing risk not only immediate risk, but also long term risk.
So you might even have one investment condition (form, growth, etc) play a more important role in one instance or selection than in another.
The idea however remains the same.
Your investment options need to show a return, whilst offering relative security with minimal or manageable risk.
Again, don’t just consider the obvious.
1 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-148: “infact jake was very rarely wrong”
fetchers? Wanna fetch jake his beer alucard?
1 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-156: Your strawman has burnt down, along with the fake Kiwi-like “fella” and “dumbing down” stuff
1 Jul 2010, 13:02 pm
Ollie, YOU BLOODY AGENT !!!
1 Jul 2010, 13:02 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-162: you’re talking sh.t and you know it.
1 Jul 2010, 13:03 pm
@wpw(wpw)-150: Are you talking about Chili or John Smit.
Are you comparing Chilli to John Smit…
Aaah, so Chilli will be the next John Smit…?
April is next year…
1 Jul 2010, 13:05 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-160: I think that is unfair. Chilliboy played well against France and Italy, and I for one is very interested to see how he can perform against NZ. But I cannot see the coaching staff giving him game time.
In fact, I see very little game time for Bismarck when he comes back from injury. PDV will be reluctant to substitute Smit with Bismarck in the closing stages of the game, and I don’t think Smit will revert to either 1 or 3 to accommodate Bismarck in the final 20 minutes.
However, before we pass a judgement on Chilli, we need to see how he performs against top dogs. Because so far this year he has impressed me.
1 Jul 2010, 13:06 pm
lionel cronje was u21 player of the year last year, we are thin at flyhalf, why is he not in the springbok set up being groomed for the future? He is as ‘naturally talented’ as say francois hougaard or chiliboy. What is wrong with pdv?
1 Jul 2010, 13:07 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-167:
It’s there for all to see, time and again he has been torn apart in the scrums, only for a sub to replace him and the problem to disipate. His lineout throwing is very iffy at best, his handling isn’t great either, it’s all there to be seen. But if you prefer to have your eyelids welded shut, then you’re more than welcome to do so.
1 Jul 2010, 13:07 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-160: earl rose really had a bad season this year and had some awful performances over over the years but he really is not as useless as most people think. hes one of the best distributers in sa and has an eye for a gap. sadly when he gets it wrong he does so spectacularly
1 Jul 2010, 13:10 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-161:
I would like to see you actually practically give me examples of that formula you speak of so it can be judged in its totality relating to what is happening practically in rugby at the moment.
As far as speculating goes on why coaches select one above the other I have specifically indicated in my post that I am indeed speculating – so no contest from me there.
It would seem however that you, given your post, seem to suggest you are not speculating thus your view carries more weight?
Aren’t you also just speculating with regards to why one player is rated over another by any individual?
Whereas I specifically stated I do not think either Ludeke or De Villiers is either right or wrong, I get the distinct feeling you think differently – more specifically that De Villiers is wrong, and Ludeke right.
I would think that is quite arrogant since that is only based on speculation in the first place?
Oh and for the record, the Boks coaching staff’s record is not bad either and they consistently play against the best a whole country has to offer – in Super rugby at least you get teams like the Lions every now and then.
In fact, De Villiers record as coach is currently 72%.
Ludeke, during the same period he has been in charge at the Bulls is sitting at 66%
So your point on who the best coaching team is – is also, very relative.
1 Jul 2010, 13:13 pm
I was always of the opinion that to get picked for the boks you had to be the best in your position at the province you played for and not 3rd choice for your province,but snor always has to be an arsehole and think he knows best when clearly he does not.I am sorry for chilliboy but he is just a quota selection from a quota coach he never asked for this attention,i just wish he would leave the bulls and play somewhere else as first choice hooker and gain some playing time.If I was gary botha i would be pissed off at chilliboy getting picked for the boks ahead of me.
1 Jul 2010, 13:14 pm
But as much fun as this is, I am out.
Ciao.
1 Jul 2010, 13:15 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-106: Is it because the Bulls are frustrating you in not picking an all-black front row similarly to the frustration you felt when that funny team from the E Cape named one mlungu in the front row (Already colonialised with the name “Bulldogs”? – A bit English for an African team you would think…)
Why mention what the “Afrikaners” do or don’t… Are the Bulls an “Afrikaner” S14 team…? What has that got to do with the slection or not of Chilli as no 1 hooker… Zane Kirchner is no. 1 Fullback at the Bulls, you know…
1 Jul 2010, 13:15 pm
It is clear to me that former captains at junior levels such as Hargreaves, Chilliboy and Potgieter get cherry-picked and drafted into senior squads earlier than their peers.
The Bok coaching team see the need to groom their leadership corps first to succeed Smit and Matfield especially.
Seen in this light, the Chilliboy selection carries more value to the neutral supporter.
I for one support this strategy wholeheartedly.
1 Jul 2010, 13:16 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-171: did you watch the 3rd british & irish lions test and the 2nd half of the recent french test? You are imagining things chap.
1 Jul 2010, 13:19 pm
@Beertjie(Beertjie)-158:
…
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-165:
you’re funny…
but the funny thing about your carefully constructed and dare I say researched response…
“The Bulls coaching setup (probably the best in SA – using their recent record as measure) don’t rate Chili as high as they do Botha… Simple… You can speculate how they come to that conclusion but the fact is their “ratings” must have validity…”
can also be used for Chilli… let me try it..
“The Boks coaching setup (probably the most powerful in SA – using their extensive coaching experience) don’t rate Botha as high as they do Chilli.. now that’s simple..You can speculate how they come to that conclusion but the fact is their “ratings” must have validity…”
bias is a b i t c h…
the funny thing is that when we are, we don’t even know we are… we spew forth “facts” instead of just saying “I’m biased” … 
I have no problem with someone saying “I prefer Botha to Chilli”… the same I have no problem with PdV saying… “I prefer Chilli..”
…
1 Jul 2010, 13:19 pm
@blueboy(blueboy)-174: was francois steyn the fullback at the sharks last year, which is the position pdv played him in the tri-nations?
1 Jul 2010, 13:22 pm
@blueboy(blueboy)-174: pdv is not the first coach to pick beyond the popular players and he wont be the last. remember jake white fetching bobby from retirement for w/c.
1 Jul 2010, 13:23 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-173: You are presming what I think… Jake White wasn’t wrong in selecting Luke the puke… Jake had to select Luke the Puke it seems…
PdV has to select Chilliboy…? He is not more “right” or more “wrong”…
I know that PdV is a very good coach – so you don’t have to wheel ut the stats…. He is not a suitable straw man for Chiliboy… Kuun is, to a certain extent, so credit to the fool wh used him…
That is besides the point – Chiliboy is not the second best hooker in SA at the moment. Now the best in position does not necessarily mean best for the Boks eg JdJ > Olivier (Who is probably best 12). But selecting Chilli as back up hooker is like selecting Andries Strauss as back up for whoever the no.1 12 will be… Not right, is it – however you try and pseudorationalise…
1 Jul 2010, 13:26 pm
@willievz(willievz)-177:
So do I.
1 Jul 2010, 13:26 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-179: Read post 182 – the first 3 lines…
Where did I mention bias – is it on the mind…? Now turn the colour/representivity/previoudly disadvantaged/positive discrimination dial to max. volume…
You have a platform and many are converted… Rock Star!
1 Jul 2010, 13:26 pm
@blueboy(blueboy)-174: But you also get white quotas like Potgieter and Hargreaves. And indeed Schalk when he was 1st selected. What makes Chilli a real quota is that 4 years after his initial unfair opportunity he has done nothing to repay the faith shown in him.
1 Jul 2010, 13:29 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-182: My farking keyboards “u’s” and “o’s” – I must promise to myself not to type words with these letters like “Useful idiOts” and “fOOls” too often…
1 Jul 2010, 13:33 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-180: Bwaaaahaahaaahahaha. So comparisons of Chilli with F Steyn now abound – imagine if Chilli could play anywhere in the scrum, and be injury free for more than a few games – and was selected there on evidence of past performances – he too would be something…
Transie Williams the comedian… “Gooooooood Mooooooorning Vietnaaaaaaaaaam”….
1 Jul 2010, 13:34 pm
Why did they get a controversial “rugby villain“: Ollie le Roux, to state that Chiliboy is a political pawn- but they get a goodguy Kempson for the negative?
Most people reading the twos’ comments on the matter would automatically be influenced and biased against Ollie’s opinion, simply because of his image/reputation.
(And thus minimizing the impact and point of the article- or at least what we know is true or so to a certain extent).
??
1 Jul 2010, 13:34 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-182: pdv doesnt have to select anyone. he insisted on having final say on team selection before signing contract
1 Jul 2010, 13:35 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-185:
” repay the faith shown in him.”
Apart from the one match where he captained the Boks, he spent his time on the bench under Jake, and then had a long line of injuries. You make it sound as if he consistently failed to perform.
1 Jul 2010, 13:37 pm
Selections like Chilli and Ricky cast a shadow over the whole selection process as both of them are second or third in line at their franchises.
What motivation is there for a player to strive towards Bok caps if you know that an inferior player might crack the nod based on whatever bullsh*t excuse PdV coughs up on the day.
1 Jul 2010, 13:41 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-187: don’t make a fool of yourself. Blueboy said it was always his opinion that a player has to be the best at his franchise in the particular position for them to be selected for the boks, i’m merely telling him that his opinion is misguided.
Now you are just looking like a useful idiot laughing at passing flies
hahaha
1 Jul 2010, 13:41 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-189: Yeah, but all coaches have “final say” – or they think they do or they say they do… Ask Jake White, Nick Mallet, Kitch Christie… Naah, ask all head coaches of S14 teams or representative teams, they all can select whoever they want… but withing the context of “representivity” or “quotas” or “demographics” or etc, etc Obviously excepting the SA U20′s now after the embarassing SF snotklap at their WC. Apparently they can select anyone without any political/race/hue/cultural/”insert PC term” considerations whatsoever…
Its good for the ego – the coach must always have the perception of being in control… “Isn’t it”, as Naas frequently says…
1 Jul 2010, 13:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-184: You “sound” irritated… I apologise if I’ve have irritated you
does it help for me to say that you are one of my favourite bloggers…?
Now can you repeat after me… “I… PREFER…BOTHA!”… I would too by the way… not because he’s better… but because he is a “favourite” of mine…
1 Jul 2010, 13:45 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-162: Thats laughable, he has only lost one lineout this season, no knock ons so far, scrums have been good. Do you really watch rugby or you just rely on rugby talk during a braai and at the pub
1 Jul 2010, 13:45 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-192: Hahahaha, nothing justifiable left to say – attack the person/messenger…. Communist/Maoist revolutionary manual 101…
I am certainly laughing at some passing flies here…impukane uyadlula
1 Jul 2010, 13:46 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-191: Being the first choice in your position at your franchise does not mean you are a better choice at national level than the player you are keeping out on provincial level.
The Bulls gameplan and structures are different to that of the Boks. Gary Botha might suit the Bulls better, but Chilliboy suits the Boks better due to his development potential post 2011 and knowledge of existing structures.
Same with Ricky Januarie and Dewald Duvenhage. The former has 40+ test caps and is a valuable asset for the Boks on defense around the fringes, whereas the Stormers gameplan thrive on quick ruck ball.
1 Jul 2010, 13:49 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-176: is Afrikaner a swear word?, Gary Botha and Derrick Kuun, are they not Afrikaners?.
1 Jul 2010, 13:50 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-194: Naah, both Chilli and Botha are irrelevant anyway because the Boks already have the Barney and Bismarck show…
Next time I will try and find an apple like a good teacher’s pet…
Careful of the worm, baby, the worm…
1 Jul 2010, 13:50 pm
@willievz(willievz)-197:
AH, HAHAHAHA!!!
WTF ever boet.
I think we both know that this is not how it works.
1 Jul 2010, 13:52 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-198: No. Why should it be? I don’t know whether they are, but a safe guess would be, yes? And…? Anything you want to say about starch…?
1 Jul 2010, 13:56 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-200: I think there is merit in what I said.
Same way you think there is merit in picking Stegmann ahead of Brussow.
I don’t laugh at your statement.
1 Jul 2010, 14:00 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-201: Nothing at all in this regard, you are the one who felt obliged to ask why I mentioned “Afrikaners”.
1 Jul 2010, 14:02 pm
@willievz(willievz)-202:
That’s because my statement is not ludicrous.
Rugby really is simple, that’s why we get the same articles- different spin everyday.
Look, saying the Bulls/Boks/Stormers vary to such a large extent in gameplay/approach that they need such a vast gulf in class, form and fitness and style…that is ludicous.
The Bulls rely on “fast ball” and the Boks should more so.
What you said there has no bearing on the anything whatsoever.
1 Jul 2010, 14:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-196: do you feel “attacked”?
1 Jul 2010, 14:06 pm
Perhaps this article should be headlined “We desperately need to generate more hits”.
1 Jul 2010, 14:07 pm
And why am I not surprised to see that Simon is the “author” of this “article”?
1 Jul 2010, 14:08 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-203: Context, my son, context…
Your comment:
“is it because Afrikaaners are looking after each other, here I’m referring to the pedestrian Botha and a failed flank forward being picked ahead of young explosive black hookers”.
Now lets do a thought experiment and change your comment slightly –
“is it because Xhosa’s are looking after each other, here I’m referring to the pedestrian Chilliboy and a failed flank forward being picked ahead of young explosive white hookers.”
Interesting commentary you give, innit…
1 Jul 2010, 14:10 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-195:
Alucard reminds me of that guy in the ‘vaste 6′ advert!!
1 Jul 2010, 14:10 pm
@willievz(willievz)-202:
Jammer Willievz, I’m sleep deprived and I don’t care to be tactful right now….
But if what you said was true at all, they we could just as well have had schools for teaching the fine arts of scrumhalf-play in various styles for various students that would match and have the rewuired attributes for that style, and then the various teams could do their shopping at select “dojos”
On a small scale obviously.
The team and management at ANY level won’t even be able to tell you that they wouyld like such and such a 9 with specifics to a T. You can select the best based on his performances within the team he has grown up in. An not relating it to yours in some pseudo-scientific way.
1 Jul 2010, 14:11 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-210:
rewuired=required.
1 Jul 2010, 14:12 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-205: No, I am positively enfranchised… Sorry you can’t laugh at disenfranchisement with me, I’m afraid…
…hissy fit follows by transformation after a couple of 2-step toyi-toyis outside the SARU offices….
1 Jul 2010, 14:16 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-212: your useless jibes are only that, useless.
but keep trying, much entertainment while i’m waiting for this tender to be approved 
1 Jul 2010, 14:18 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-213: They are not jibes, but the truth it seems… Looks like you have already done the hissy fit, the 2-step, and are now inside… You are now just waiting for the dosh
1 Jul 2010, 14:19 pm
@wpw(wpw)-209: or like those ignorant okes that post in the Echo, always blaming Lucas even if he didnt play
, the similarities are uncanny
1 Jul 2010, 14:21 pm
@willievz(willievz)-197: Willie Chilli cannot offer more to a team with his lack of time spent on the field.
Ricky’s test caps hardly makes him an automatic choice as most no 9′s in the world will kick his ***.
1 Jul 2010, 14:32 pm
We are forgetting Maku! He actually has been playing well enough to feel aggrieved that Chili has leapfrogged him!
1 Jul 2010, 14:35 pm
I hate deadlines. It’s as though Father Time himself is conspiring against me.
Bloody old crooked b@stard.
1 Jul 2010, 14:36 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-193: its rather useless to have a debate where the goalposts is being shifted to suit a certain point of view.
1 Jul 2010, 14:38 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-210: Actually, the “top” schools in the country do try to adopt the regional playing pattern – it is a request from the provincial unions so that players can make the transition to senior teams with greater ease.
Whether or not I agree with this is a different story. I think schools rugby is a different kettle of fish altogether and I have very sceptical views on how domestic rugby coaches apply their “knowledge” to a young audience.
But the issues I highlighted is quite straightforward. Chilliboy is, together with Hargreaves and Potgieter, part of the prospective future leaderscorps of the green and gold. Giving them exposure to the structures now (even though their might be better players currently available) will be beneficial to Springbok rugby in the long run.
By 2015, all three of these players could have played 80+ tests, same as with John Smit and Matfield, who will hopefully hit the 100 mark before the 2011 tournament. Experience at test level win World Cups.
Januarie has repeatedly proved his BMT in 3N tournaments and is a logical choice at 9 in the absence of FDP because he has the most experience.
It is really that simple for me. And yes, of course I can be wrong.
1 Jul 2010, 14:39 pm
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-217: Well, thats not for the first time Bandise has been in this situation, the Bulls converted and played a flank ahead of him and Gary Botha returned from wherever he was and was put straight into the team ahead of him, so whats new?, poor lad
1 Jul 2010, 14:39 pm
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-217: Yup, a big nail on the head, driven into the coffin logic of Chilli’s selection… Its all farked up, man… (picture the rugby hippy, smoking his Ellis Park grass!)
1 Jul 2010, 14:41 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-216: Chilli cannot offer the team much at the moment but he could potentially aid in guiding our Bok team to glory in 2015.
1 Jul 2010, 14:41 pm
the question is not whether chilliboy is the second best hooker in our opinion, but whether he is in pdv opinion. as there is no evidence to suggest he is not, this whole debate is a waste of time
1 Jul 2010, 14:42 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-219: Yup, its like one of those trick pictures where you get shown a rabbit and get told “look again, carefully” and you see a dog ugly woman…
1 Jul 2010, 14:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-222: Funny, I dont recall your support when I questioned Kuun being converted from flank to hooker and Botha being played ahead of Maku.
1 Jul 2010, 14:45 pm
@willievz(willievz)-220: “By 2015, all three of these players could have played 80+ tests”
Eish, maths is not a strong point of mine
1 Jul 2010, 14:45 pm
@willievz(willievz)-220:
I didn’t mean schools pre se.
But I do disagree with you that those you mentioned are but the future (for reason’s other than plain skill). Yes, of course they could be selected and groomed for that- it’s up to the Brady bunch.
But, Chili etc are “pawns” (keo.co.za thinks so. Said numerous times and to takethis article from the SARugby obviously), and Hargreaves is a favourite.
None of these players are good enough. Chiliboy is much better than Maku though. People seem to think Maku is great.
1 Jul 2010, 14:46 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-215:
Congrats with YOUR team’s new coach!! bwahahaha
1 Jul 2010, 14:46 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-224: That is a fair point. Same with Jake who consitently claimed that Shimange was his second choice.
That simply is not true.
1 Jul 2010, 14:47 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-226: I wasn’t talking about Kuun…
Now, settle…
1 Jul 2010, 14:49 pm
@wpw(wpw)-229: **** dont tell me, they have gone Roy Hodgson!!!!!
1 Jul 2010, 14:50 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-216:
Dan Carter can’t even kick Ricky’s ***.
1 Jul 2010, 14:55 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-232:
They have!!
An initial transfer budget of 15 million quid.
Who/what the hell can he buy with that??
1 Jul 2010, 14:57 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-232:
3 year contract dude!! THREE YEARS!!!
His Fulham side finished 12 in the league and yet he is still named Manager of the Year!!
The Brits are really a strange bunch!! Mediocrity rules!!!
1 Jul 2010, 14:57 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-228: They are only pawns if the management claim that they are the second best in their positions. They are not the second best.
However, if the management communicate the message like it is intended to, namely to build the future leaders of Bok rugby, they are not pawns.
Who is going to replace the Smit-Matfield institution?
This whole debate depends on how you view the Bok jersey. Should the best 22 or squad always get selected at that specific point in time, regardless of age and future contribution post a specific date? Or should the squad include players who can in future be of immense value to Bok rugby even though they are not necessarily the best option at current?
Now traditionally I would have favoured the former approach. No questions asked. However, we are no longer living in the amateur days where only a handful of tests are played in a calender year, and where global tournaments do not exist.
In a globalised rugby society and dynamic time and space variables, you need to manage your resources so that your combined squad comprise a certain number of test matches. I would say a combined test total of 500 caps should be a benchmark for all Springbok teams from now on and the absolute minimum requirement.
If you brought Chilliboy and Hargreaves into the bok team at the same time as their peers four years later, you would have robbed the extended squad of a probable 100 caps.
1 Jul 2010, 14:59 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-232: ****!!! it is so, I am a man torn apart, now lets compare the next three years of Hodgson at Pool and Rafa at Inter, now I hope those fcuks live long enough to see what a mess they have made.
1 Jul 2010, 15:00 pm
Skrik ek nou my gat af toe die “pop-up” hier regs onder uit kom!
1 Jul 2010, 15:03 pm
@Staal(Staal)-238:
1 Jul 2010, 15:03 pm
@willievz(willievz)-230: we all know jake white did not have final say over team selections. pdv only signed his contract a couple of months after being appointed because he wanted final say(and a better package) so i really cant see the political link here
1 Jul 2010, 15:03 pm
@willievz(willievz)-236: “Who is going to replace the Smit-Matfield institution” – They will be hard to replace but I give you Slangkos, not Chilliboy…
1 Jul 2010, 15:06 pm
@Staal(Staal)-238: lol. Soos ‘n porn site. So **** ek maar naturlik.
1 Jul 2010, 15:06 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-226: hahaha you’re barking up the wrong tree, heavens game is an old school colonialist. You expect him to take up cause for natives
not a chance 
1 Jul 2010, 15:07 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-239:
1 Jul 2010, 15:09 pm
@willievz(willievz)-236:
“This whole debate depends on how you view the Bok jersey”
No, even if the Boks didn’t exist, I could still tell you who the best, or near best, or top players difficult to distinguish the best…
It is NOT difficult to tell that Ricky and Chili etc.are not the best.
There is an unofficial quota policy. Quota are also being enforced on the age group level and limiting our talent coming through. So inevitably, we aren’t seeing the best come through and to be the best you have to beat the best, I not happy with a ****** Lions team or anything else in any province, since we’ll be bring ourselfves down accross the board.
Simple fact is: these guys aren’t the best available no matter how anyone spins it, and we also have to content with mass SA incompetancy and reverse racism/discrimination.
Final.
1 Jul 2010, 15:09 pm
@wpw(wpw)-235: **** not only 12th but they never won an away game the entire season, ****!!!!!!
1 Jul 2010, 15:09 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-241: Of course Slangkos need to be there, possibly as captain.
I can always talk of a Smit-Matfield-Burger-Smith institution.
All leaders that need to be replaced. It would be futile to replace them all at once. We will revert back to the Straueli-days of an inexperienced squad.
1 Jul 2010, 15:10 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-240: Couple that with the fact that he has been at loggerhead with figure heads in SA Rugby many teams over the transformation issue. That he had the spine (unlike some other coaches) to say:”No, I will select who I want to”. PDV is not a well liked man in SA Rugby. He has stated that he knows that he will be fired, irrespective of results achieved on the field, and will therefor not seek a contract extension after the World Cup. The fact that he’s not trying to appease the politicians (coupled with his 4 year contract) means he has freedom to select whoever he wants. And he does.
1 Jul 2010, 15:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-243: Why an “Old School Colonialist”?
What cause and for what “natives”…
Aaah, but we must take up the cause of poor disenfranchised Chilli… Fark, anyone who went to PBHS must be disadvantaged…
Ask any Affies old boy or supporter about the “Boer Oorlog”…
1 Jul 2010, 15:12 pm
@Staal(Staal)-238:
LMAO
1 Jul 2010, 15:14 pm
@willievz(willievz)-236:
And BTW, replace Smit and Matfield with the next best thing and hopefully they will out-do their masters someday:
Bekker is already a worthy replacement. Juandre Kruger could be too.
We have more than enough SKILLED hookers to replace Smit. Your captain doesn’t have to be a hooker you know.
Give me a team full of legendary captains, and I’ll crush them with skilled merit players best in each of their respective positions. It’s that simple.
Captain se gat. they make mistakes too—and with the team constantly changing multiple times a season, what make anyone think that he’ll have the same influence over the collective team throughout?
1 Jul 2010, 15:14 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-246:
WHAT??
Oh dear!!
1 Jul 2010, 15:14 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-226: heyneke meyer rated kuun a better hooker than maku, so i guess maku is at the bulls only to meet a certain quota.
1 Jul 2010, 15:16 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-245: I never said they are the best available, now did I.
In fact, if you read the post in sober fashion and not with the hatred that is evident in your answer, you would have seen that I said they have the potential to become Springbok greats and that it would be foolish not to expose them to the current Springbok greats within a great Springbok setup.
What value would Liebenberg or Gary Botha bring to the table in 2015 or 2019?
1 Jul 2010, 15:16 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-248: so why the political angle?
1 Jul 2010, 15:17 pm
if maku & chilli are not happy with being 3rd or 4th choice hookers .. and they are not happy with the afrikaans setup, then why don’t they go to other provinces? i’m sure they’ll get 40 mins or so game time @ EP or SWD
1 Jul 2010, 15:19 pm
Liverpool legends Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher have welcomed Roy Hodgson’s appointment as manager.
The former Fulham boss arrives on a three-year deal to replace Rafa Benitez at the helm.
The Reds face a desperate fight to return to the Champions League after failing to qualify for Europe’s premier club competition last season.
Gerrard praised Hodgson’s move, although fans will fear that he made no commitment himself to Liverpool in his statement.
He said: ‘The club have made a good appointment in Roy Hodgson. Rafa left a few weeks ago and I know the club were determined to take their time and get the right man for the job.
‘Roy is hugely experienced and I believe he is the right man for Liverpool. I think it’s been worth the wait and I’m sure he’s just keen now to get on with it and start to quickly put in place his plans for the new season.’
Carragher, who like Gerrard has also spent his entire career at Anfield, was delighted with Hodgson’s confirmation as manager.
He said: ‘I’m really looking forward to the opportunity of working with Roy Hodgson as he’s got such a great reputation in the game and is one of the most experienced managers in world football. After this period of uncertainty, his appointment has given us all a lift.’
Former Liverpool captain Phil Thompson believes Hodgson can trigger the beginning of a new era at Anfield.
1 Jul 2010, 15:20 pm
@wpw(wpw)-235: come on give the man a break, 12th in the league, finals if europa league with players like zoltan gera, bobby zamora, sanny murphy, damian duff etc those are achievements….
1 Jul 2010, 15:20 pm
@willievz(willievz)-254:
” never said they are the best available, now did I?”
Yes but I did say they weren’t.
Willie, don’t skeit in your broek now that I disagree with you, I moved on from the first post long ago, comeon now! I’m not trying to tackle you boetie, chillax.
“hatred?” I think you’re being sensitive now and over-reacting. Get off the Androcur and we’ll talk again….
1 Jul 2010, 15:21 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-253: Unjani mfowethu?
1 Jul 2010, 15:23 pm
Afrikaans setup?
1 Jul 2010, 15:24 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-259: My pants are as clean as the Stormers’ trophy cabinet. I just reacted to the tone of the post.
I don’t mind people disagreeing, in fact, this is what this blog is all about.
And, who said I disagree with you anyways?
1 Jul 2010, 15:25 pm
Time will tell
1 Jul 2010, 15:26 pm
@Doppies_better_than_De_jongh(suffer_guy)-256: I think they have accepted it Dommie, as the 1st & 2nd choice hookers at the bulls will have to accept the Boks setup
the question now is….have you?
1 Jul 2010, 15:28 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-260: lekker so se cracker ntsizwa yakithi….uyaphila wena sbali?
1 Jul 2010, 15:28 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-253: First bit of objective truth you have spoken all day…
1 Jul 2010, 15:29 pm
@willievz(willievz)-262:
Sorry boetie, but you seriously can’t react to the tone of my posts. People have diffirent cultures, background and styles. It would be a mistake of you to try and deduce my tone from these mere scribblings. OK?
(BTW, if your pants are like the Stormers’ trophy cabinet, it must be cold, dark and dusty in there. I retract all of my harsh-sounding statements.)
1 Jul 2010, 15:29 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-258: This guy didnt win a single away game in the Premiership, more importantly, Liverpool is likely going to lose Gerrard to Madrid, Torres to Barcelona/City, Masch & Kuyt to Inter, Yossi to Chelsea, to top that off, he only has 15mil to spend.
Walking through a storm.
Now I’m depressed, like Tacitus when Terreblanche was killed
1 Jul 2010, 15:29 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-258: “old school colonialist”
and
“native”
two of the funniest taunts i have read on keo in ages transie.
1 Jul 2010, 15:30 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-264: hahahaha nice retort
1 Jul 2010, 15:30 pm
you must be a vuvu blower of note!
1 Jul 2010, 15:31 pm
never @ theoricle … never … the bok the once proud bok = cheap
1 Jul 2010, 15:32 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-268: hodgson is an old school manager.
isnt he a scot like the rangers ancestors?
we all know scots have been at the heart of Pool success for a hundred years.
i applaud his appointment but he needs more cash to spend i agree.
1 Jul 2010, 15:33 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-273: He’s English
Think he’s the right (only) man for the job.
1 Jul 2010, 15:34 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-267: How did you bold those words anyway? :shocks:
1 Jul 2010, 15:34 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-267: “BTW, if your pants are like the Stormers’ trophy cabinet, it must be cold, dark and dusty in there.” – now that is funny… LOL
1 Jul 2010, 15:34 pm
@willievz(willievz)-275: :shocks: =
1 Jul 2010, 15:35 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-268: even liverfools are not that stupid. they wont sell all their best players at once.
1 Jul 2010, 15:35 pm
@willievz(willievz)-275:
To convey emotion and tone…………magical stuff.
1 Jul 2010, 15:35 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-276: Ja that was hilarious. It is pretty clean though since the Stormers did clean it before the final.
Will take another 4 years to build up dust again
1 Jul 2010, 15:36 pm
@wpw(wpw)-234:
Probably most of the French, Italian and England squads.
1 Jul 2010, 15:36 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-279: Not why but how?
I see Staal does it too…in fact, that is all he does…
1 Jul 2010, 15:38 pm
@willievz(willievz)-280: LOLLLLLLLLLL…..
“It is pretty clean though since the Stormers did clean it before the final.” – it = the trophy cabinet or yor pants
Sorry mate, had to laugh again….
1 Jul 2010, 15:38 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-266: yes, same as mametsa, mabeta, adams (before he left) there’s no difference between the blue bulls and a company that registers the tea-lady & janitor as shareholders for procurement purposes…
1 Jul 2010, 15:38 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-276:
Yer…I think he has to stop paying his marriage counselor- we’ve located the problem….
1 Jul 2010, 15:40 pm
@RedMan(RedMan)-274: ok then.
shows how much i know but i will hope Pool benefits.
now, i have read all of your comments on this thread and i would like to propose that we all call a truce of sorts and unite in our dislike of someone/something else?
my suggestion is that waka waka song by shakira.
wtf is “waka waka”?
and why has this not been brought up?
it sounds like she wrote the song after watching some cheesy 1950′s hollywood flick like “sandy in deepest darkest africa” ffs!
ooga ooga booga wooga! like we are a bunch of a p e s dancing around in skins.
it p i ss e s me off. the only reason i watch the music video really is to make sure her hips dont lie.
1 Jul 2010, 15:40 pm
@willievz(willievz)-282:
Trade secrets my friend…You have much to learn young Padawan…
1 Jul 2010, 15:40 pm
“…But keeping him in the Bok mix will help with his development as a player and…”
You dont simply walk into the Bok team to “develop”.
1 Jul 2010, 15:41 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-269: hello ranger, glad to bring some mirth to your day…
1 Jul 2010, 15:41 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-284: LOL… now you are being funny and I promise I have not smuggled any Debbin Poison into Mud Island…
1 Jul 2010, 15:41 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-283:
1 Jul 2010, 15:41 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-258:
I am willing to give him a chance but he really doesn’t have a good record and he is not good enough for our club imho.
He hasn’t won anything of note!!
1 Jul 2010, 15:41 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-284:
guthro, habs, akona and zane make tea?
gtfoh.
1 Jul 2010, 15:42 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-289: ja, you are one funny native
1 Jul 2010, 15:46 pm
this is more of a kuk debate than a big debate.
and in a debate, each side has the opportunity to respond to the points made by their adversaries.
this is more like an opinion piece.
and its kuk, like the waka waka song.
so says rangernative aka ostrichman aka squirrel hunter
1 Jul 2010, 15:47 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-295:
your post just gave me Deja vu.
1 Jul 2010, 15:47 pm
@willievz(willievz)-282:
is nie!
1 Jul 2010, 15:50 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-296: deja who?
1 Jul 2010, 15:53 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-298:
you
1 Jul 2010, 15:53 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-294: thanks master ranger…
1 Jul 2010, 15:54 pm
White’s double bogey
Jake White says deciding on his back-up options at hooker and centre were hardest calls he had to make when deciding on his final 30 for the World Cup.
The Springbok coach and national selectors finally settled on Wynand Olivier and Gary Botha in those roles, with Waylon Murray and Bismarck Du Plessis the unlucky losers in the mix. Both could have felt justifiably disappointed, having delivered impressive displays in the limited game time they received.
White however explained that he wanted to remain true to his philosophy of continuity in selection and added that the versatility of Olivier and other backline players influenced the call in midfield.
“Look, it was helluva tough because both Waylon and Bismarck played well when given an opportunity, but I’m pleased with the final call,” White told Keo.co.za.
“We weren’t sure if we should have gone with two or three hookers and in the end Bismarck was unlucky that we went for two. As far as Wynand’s inclusion goes, he’s played a big role for us last season [he played in all 12 Tests in 2006] and covers inside and outside centre as well as wing.
“We felt we had enough cover in midfield given that Bryan Habana and Ashwin Willemse can cover outside centre and Butch James and Frans Steyn inside centre,” he explained.
Asked whether Chiliboy Ralepelle was ever in selection contention despite not having a played since round three of the Super 14, the coach said he was and still is.
“Always in the mix,” White said of the Bulls youngster, expected to return to competitive action in early September. “I spoke to him last after the Samoa Test to find out how his rehabilitation was going and discussed his chances of being fit for the tournament.
“He’s still part of the mix and if we pick up injuries he could come into the reckoning.”
1 Jul 2010, 15:54 pm
This is Sparta, chikkens!
1 Jul 2010, 15:54 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-302:
1 Jul 2010, 15:55 pm
looks like i killed the thread.
ho hum.
1 Jul 2010, 15:57 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-304:
yep.
gigolo hum.
1 Jul 2010, 15:57 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-300: pleasure my boy
1 Jul 2010, 15:57 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-301: And on and on and on…. goes the ifs, buts and only’s… Jake tried to play politician and he was not good at it… All Bok coaches are forced to select players they would rather not… Some just don’t have to agree with it…
You must have a nice bale by now with all the straws you’ve been grasping…
1 Jul 2010, 15:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-307: or clutching…
1 Jul 2010, 16:01 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-308:
1 Jul 2010, 16:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-307: a colonial mindset is a b i tch…you’re a perfect example
wit rangerman your minion…
1 Jul 2010, 16:16 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-310: a native mindset can be a real handicap, i suggest you try take your muthi and sleep it off
anyways, i am out.
have a good one all, waka waka!
1 Jul 2010, 16:25 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-310: What do they say about dependency…? A quota/AA/”insert politically correct term” is nothing more than coins in the begging bowl on a conceptual level…
The coins here are rugby positions, and being given something for nothing….
A dependency mindset is a biyatch, ask any Ghanaian, Kenyan about “structral readjustment” after too much IMF or World Bank largesse…
Both analogies apply to quotas or being given a position in a rugby team without merit…
Shame but Chilli is really disenfranchised – reminds me of Johnny Cleggs lyrics: Wo! ilanga lobunzima, Nalo liyashona,
Ukuthini asazi Mus’ ukukhala Mntanami. Do you feel this way too :LOL:
1 Jul 2010, 16:32 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-312: apologies – should be structural readjustment… blaady “u” key…
1 Jul 2010, 16:59 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-312: you’re quite right, especially when a government puts in legislation that drives others from their fertile land & provides to only some along with soft loans, concerted & systematic manipulation of labour & resources, when things are normalised those who enjoyed undue privilege tend to emigrate or whinge incessantly.
Some countries have marshal plans, some have imf loans, no difference to me
1 Jul 2010, 17:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-314:
Bad taste makes many more milionares then good taste i guess
1 Jul 2010, 17:07 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-312: imagine the ignominy of knowing of wearing the springbok jersey know that the majority of the population in your own country are barred from competing for the same jersey you’re wearing.
1 Jul 2010, 17:07 pm
just read a few posts then gave up….let me say 1 thing….if Chilliboy a quota political selection as he is only far down the pecking order, then so is J Smit and R Pienaar.
Pienaar at 15?????
Smit at 3????
Then they also quotas.
Klaar
1 Jul 2010, 17:09 pm
all these saffa expats sitting overseas trying to tell us what to do with our team can go and get f a r ked!
1 Jul 2010, 17:10 pm
and all the squirrel hunters sitting in KZN still feeling they run the country like colonialists can go and get f a r ked too.
1 Jul 2010, 17:15 pm
Why no….he’s a natural. In fact I feel so confident in his obvious talent I’m going to suggest we let him play rugby in the Northern Hemisphere..for ten years.
1 Jul 2010, 17:17 pm
was in a meeting, I come back and the BIG DEBATE is still ongoing…
@Transformation(Transformation)-316: hey Mfo…sukuyithetha lonto, uzok’va ukuba edlulileyo idlule..
reverse discrimination or something like that… consider yourself warned 
1 Jul 2010, 17:22 pm
@grant10(grant10)-317: “ruan pienaar is too talented a player to leave out of ay springbok team” – joel stransky. When will you ever learn grant?
1 Jul 2010, 17:26 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-314: What you talking about… Zimbabwe?
@Transformation(Transformation)-316: I just adapt your comment “imagine the ignominy of knowing that by wearing the springbok jersey you know that the majority of the rugby players from a certain demographic are barred from competing for the same jersey you’re wearing.” – that pretty much applies to Chilliboy, so thank you.
@theOracle(theOracle)-321: Ba’hla… you have that right
1 Jul 2010, 17:31 pm
@grant10(grant10)-318: So says the mlungu liberator from the bubble of Cape Town. You might as well be expat… when last did you have a look at the airport mjondolos?
Go watch your poofball… a game more suited to your delicate sensibilities…
1 Jul 2010, 17:37 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-321: ndiyayazi lonto, qha bacinga ukuba silibele ukuba sisuka phi. Sobe ndithule lungekho utshintsho.
1 Jul 2010, 17:41 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-323: the republic you & your forefathers prospered in.
1 Jul 2010, 17:43 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-323: chiliboy has talent in bucketloads…
1 Jul 2010, 18:00 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-326: And they will always prosper. There always is the proverbial dependency bowl to fill up (eg. BEE).
Conquest and exploitation was and is “all the rage” – whether its Shaka, Rhodes, Kruger, Mbeki or Malema… Some just do it better and more efficiently than others…
1 Jul 2010, 18:01 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-327: Undoubtedly so, but not more than others plainly better than him
1 Jul 2010, 18:07 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-329: well pdv’s opinion is the only one that matters, so keep wailing
1 Jul 2010, 18:10 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-330: I doubt if its his opinion though… He has to say the right things about Chilli, to satisfy the “wise” and “strong” man Khompela and all his acolytes
1 Jul 2010, 18:13 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-331: The only good thing about this is I have faith in PdV… So no wailing from me…
After the Boks have won next year for the third time then Chilli can take up his Captaincy role with the King Proteas…
After that, who cares … The Bok legacy will be complete
1 Jul 2010, 18:14 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-331: have you ever seen khompela before?
he is probably your age hahhahahaha
1 Jul 2010, 18:15 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-331:
Don’t be an idiot. If that was the case he could have chosen Maku if he doesn’t rate Chili. PdeV has already got enough black players, if that’s the criteria, without making an issue over Chili.
1 Jul 2010, 18:16 pm
Greetings All
He is good enough, let him jol !! Ollie you …….
1 Jul 2010, 18:19 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-333: Bwahahahaha, do you have that wrong…
Graded D+, must try harder next time…
That hay bale is getting bigger…
1 Jul 2010, 18:20 pm
@David(David)-334: Maku is not a potential captain… fodder for idjits
1 Jul 2010, 18:24 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-337:
What’s that got to do with it, or are you now claiming that he’s a “quota” captain in the making, rather than just a quota.
1 Jul 2010, 18:57 pm
@David(David)-338: No, I am saying that there are better players than him… Please try and separate hue colour from ability and form…
1 Jul 2010, 18:58 pm
bloody expats…..
1 Jul 2010, 19:01 pm
bryan habana is a quota, he adds to the number of players of colour in every team he plays in, so does zane, juan de jong, beast etc. All these guys are quotas.
Quota: a certain designated number of a particular commodity
1 Jul 2010, 19:02 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-339:
Most of your posts are based on colour in one form or another. You’re just too dishonest to say it openly.
1 Jul 2010, 19:05 pm
if a quota is defined as a player in the team that is not the best in his position….
well then i can name a quota or 2 with bloody pleasure…..starting with Plod.
1 Jul 2010, 19:05 pm
@David(David)-342: Rubbeesh… Swat that fly! You gave an unsolicited comment. Now run along…
I am watching you now…
1 Jul 2010, 19:08 pm
@grant10(grant10)-343: who is better than Smit? the ex-Quins bencher or that guy he annihilated in the Stormers/Sharks game
1 Jul 2010, 19:10 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-341: Brian Habana is the best wing in the World – so he is not a quota – he is there on merit….
My, my, even you are confused about quota’s in an SA sport/colour/representivity context – are you sure you’re not an expat
1 Jul 2010, 19:11 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-346: so smit is a quota then!
And Ruan Pienaar
1 Jul 2010, 19:16 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-344:
I understand that keo.co.za solicits the comments, young man, not you.
1 Jul 2010, 19:22 pm
Trying to deny quotas exist in rugby is like trying to deny that the majority of rugby coaches in SA who happen to be white shows more trust in white players.
It is just kak funny how both camps try to justify their points which I find really entertaining.
1 Jul 2010, 19:28 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-349:
That’s something I pointed out earlier today. PdeV unashamedly said that he intended to make the Boks more representative and that he felt that there were many players of colour who could succeed at international level. Thankfully he’s been extremely pragmatic in how he’s going about it. He even admitted his mistakes over a number of (unnamed) players.
1 Jul 2010, 19:33 pm
@David(David)-350:
I am reminded of the Jack Nicholson movie about not being able to handle the truth!
1 Jul 2010, 19:37 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-345: Bissy and Gary in my humble opinion.And Chilliboy probably.
1 Jul 2010, 19:43 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-349:
you spent
the first
part
of today
trying to
explain
quotas
away
maybe
you should
only
post
after sunset
chilli
is that
quota
some
are trying
to explain
away
rolleye
1 Jul 2010, 19:44 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-351:
I never saw it. What most people ignore is that the future of the game in SA is dependent on growing it amongst the majority of the population. This includes both spectators and players. Whilst a number of bloggers are adament that the Bok selections are inviolate, the game is dying at player grass roots level in the traditionally white schools. A WC victory enhances the support amongst the black population for a while, but it doesn’t attract many black kids to what is seen as a white sport.
1 Jul 2010, 19:45 pm
@David(David)-348: Take that “young man” shite and shove it where your intellect can take it…
You stepped into a commentary where I unfortunately had to re-educate Tranny about the facts of life…
I do find it amusing but tiresome sometimes and there is not enough time to do the same for you today…
Maybe another time I will endeavour to expand your understanding when you again decide that the best place for your head is not necessarily that dark, comfortable place beneath the sand…
1 Jul 2010, 19:45 pm
@David(David)-354:
so what
now
1 Jul 2010, 19:48 pm
Thats all for now folks… outtahere…
Transie, always a pleasure…
Pissant, you must try harder…
Porra, give them some Zen…
Others cheers,
and David, the evil eye is watching you from now on…
1 Jul 2010, 19:51 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-346: that’s what you’re missing charlie…if Butana wants to see a minimum of 5 players of colour in the team to satisfy himself that it representative he will start counting. 1. Habana, 2. Guthro, 3. Juan de Jongh, 4 Zane, 5. Aplon…done
team meats the required number.
1 Jul 2010, 19:51 pm
@grant10(grant10)-352: in fairness G10 your Smit crusade is slightly more appropriate this year than last year, his form is not where it could/should be. Needs to pick it up.
I think the Boks are in for a bit of a humbling this year in NZ, do hope I’m wrong tho, pains me to watch kiwi ***** think they’re the best.
1 Jul 2010, 19:53 pm
Just as a thought…
Over the years I think we could all identify black or coloured players which no doubt has had, or still have, as much ability as the next guy or for the sake of this debate, a white guy.
I am not disillusioned to think for one second the problem with these guys not making the step up only lies with ‘preferential’ treatment of coaches towards white players – that is just daft.
Social-economic factors obviously plays a role as-well.
Personally I can think of a couple of guys I think suffered from this none more so than Solly T who simply was not equipped (in my humble opinion) to deal with the pressures of this kind of life or career.
But more to the point we have to ask why a Chili, largely viewed as a quota never made the step up from a very promising age group career and ability to one of similar stature at senior level.
Of course it is a mixed bag of reasons, some of which mainly include mismanagement of players (black and white) but then of course we can also ask why Chili, who has been with the Bulls have been mis-managed for 5 or 6 years now???
I surely cannot justify a flank retread being picked ahead of him which no doubt halted his development to senior level and it cannot be because of injury because he was not injured for the last 6 years…
If I were to guess a figure of talented, and good enough black or coloured players at junior or age group levels failing at senior levels I think an estimation of 70% failure rate is conservative.
We have to ask why that is.
If a guy like Chili obviously has shown to have the talent and ability, why has he not made the step up?
Personally, it is a combination between the individual and the management of that individual.
I am a huge supporters of positive transformation, but I am an even bigger critic of the policies and programs in place currently.
1 Jul 2010, 19:56 pm
@David(David)-354:
Had a conversation with a guy from Gauteng today, and how rugby is dying in traditional rugby schools in Gauteng at an alarming rate – which is evident in what we see at Craven Week…
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-357:
At what?
1 Jul 2010, 19:56 pm
Heavens Shame trying to educate those who are his life superiors. Like the second grade kid trying to educate the enlightened professor.
There are few advanced intellects on this site but those that think they are advanced are quite precisely the babies while those they look down their elongated snouts at are laughing at their pitiful non realized immaturity with disdain.
1 Jul 2010, 19:58 pm
Out for now.
Ciao.
1 Jul 2010, 19:58 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-359: why was twits censored?
1 Jul 2010, 20:00 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-362:
so stop
thinking
that
you are
advanced
and bury
your
elongated snout
in
your a-hole
hear
the laughter
1 Jul 2010, 20:01 pm
chow
piss
stick to
coaching
1 Jul 2010, 20:02 pm
I doubt the dud ever been anything BUT a token
After he was corked up twice in a row at Witbank I abandoned watching the Test, had enough
1 Jul 2010, 20:03 pm
eish
ciao
not chow
lets leave
those dogs
alone
1 Jul 2010, 20:05 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-366:
Perhaps…
I always only got into fights when involved in administration.
1 Jul 2010, 20:06 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-362:
Did you see where those breeker prima donna bullie boys are playing their final Craven Week game?
In the parking lot – LMFAO.
1 Jul 2010, 20:06 pm
Okay gone now for at least an hour.
1 Jul 2010, 20:07 pm
there is perhaps something to be said for junior players maturing faster than others and then those maturing late catching up and surpassing their physical and perhaps even mental growth patterns in early adulthood.
Age group stars don’t always translate into adult sports hero’s. However the coaching inconsistencies here in this country’s rugby franchises are still emphatically slanted towards trying to protect a dying legacy of broederbond religiosity in a particular sport at every possible attempt.
1 Jul 2010, 20:09 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-359: ja….not so sure about that either….last year our scrums were an embaressing shambles….and thats being kind!
This year we may get a better platform, but i believe we will miss Bissy, Brussow. j smith and FS greatly.
Ja….will be tough away leg….lots of new faces….as 2010 always was going to be.
1 Jul 2010, 20:12 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-355:
Patronisation isn’t your sole preserve.
1 Jul 2010, 20:17 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-361:
I had the same info from SARU 3 years ago. They are aware of the problem and it scares them.
1 Jul 2010, 20:17 pm
yep WP EP and FS are the nurseries of SA rugby while Bully breker Bulls and Sharks scum off the pickings pretending to be the custodians of the country’s talent yet its same as soccer these days where players chase the high profile clubs seeking to maximize income and in so doing practically selling out on the nursery that nursed them to maturity.
1 Jul 2010, 20:25 pm
I certainly hope the average saffa rugby supporter has girded up his expectations to expect rather less than more this year.
Anyone thinking we so far superior to either Ab’s or Wallabies in 2010 are opening themselves up for some hyper ventillating realizating just around the corner.
1 Jul 2010, 20:25 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-376:
You’ve hit the nail on the head. Anyway I need to go and eat. See you later if you’re still around.
1 Jul 2010, 20:29 pm
my apologies to ranting over PDV s choice re the omission of F Steyn.
I have reliably learnt that Frans was only ever available for the wales game due to his complicated contract and that talks are being held with Racing to sort out for future….PDV has stated categorically that FS is very much in his plans and no personality clash , etc.
So PDV…i am sorry for the rant….[ although i still feel you werr a wally for ever letting plod near the 3 jersey ] .
1 Jul 2010, 20:30 pm
@grant10(grant10)-379:
Hubris
1 Jul 2010, 20:35 pm
so long David
Take it easy if I don’t catch you round later
1 Jul 2010, 20:38 pm
@grant10(grant10)-379: from now on i’m going to call you Quick Rant McGrant!!!!
1 Jul 2010, 20:40 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-377:
not being
made
easier
by
non-merit
selections
like
ricky and
chilli
non-merit
sounds good
eh
better than
quota
1 Jul 2010, 20:44 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-382: must admit the rugby scene a bit boring at the moment now that i dont really have a crusade on the go.
Smit back at 2 has taken the wind out my sails….in fact i reckon all is pretty hunky dory ….no complaints from me.
Of course things may change ….like if they play Ruan at 15 or JDV at 14!!
But all in all….its plain sailing.
Going to the VIP section of the fan park tomorrow, the blonde cracked a cool invite…..should be cool.
Spain going to win this WC transie.
1 Jul 2010, 20:45 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-383: gotten over the Spain caning yet Porra?
1 Jul 2010, 20:48 pm
@grant10(grant10)-385:
not yet
but
i’ll be
wailing
for arg
and the
terrible
hun
from now
on
i still
remain a
rugby porra
though
forever
1 Jul 2010, 20:51 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-386: i was lucky enough to be there….supported Portugal…but was won over by the Spanish who were simply unreal.
I have played with and against a lot of Portugese players in my time…..i know the love and passon for football that flows through the veins…..respect and condolences….
1 Jul 2010, 21:05 pm
@grant10(grant10)-384: well i’ll be watching the dutch duel with seleciao live @ the mnb stadium, wow! Brazil vs Holland
i must be dreaming for sure. This is the stuff of legends, i will tell my grandkids that ek was daar! 
1 Jul 2010, 21:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-388: that is magic Transie….enjoy my man….its all about creating memories and being part of it!
I have not as yet been able to get a ticket for the germany…argie game or the semi….but will be on the fan mile soaking in the atmosphere…..it is what makes life great!
1 Jul 2010, 21:59 pm
Its pretty simple, ask yourself whether a team like the All Blacks, with all their depth, would continue to select a player whose played 20mins of Super14 rugby in an entire season?
The answer is no.
It is quite obviously political.
This is not the debate. The debate has two main questions:
1.) Are quotas still justified?
2.) Should SARU be allowed to confirm their selection policy is not politically influenced (i.e. quotas) when it quite obviously is.
I personally think there is probably a reasonably case for quotas, but this selection is undoubtedly political, at least have some honesty.
1 Jul 2010, 22:12 pm
another ‘uitlander’ wanting to call the shots….
Bloody wallys
1 Jul 2010, 22:21 pm
@cab(cab)-390:
Hi CAB
I think we all feel affected by these decisions.
16 years after democracy we still have quotas, AA in our businesses etc
I just feel that the playing fields are still notlevel – a whole generation has grown up in a democratic environment – I know coz my daughter has grown up in this.
Do you think Habana or Ashwell Prince or such like appreciate it being called quotas – of course they hate it.
What we require is a line drawn in the sand as to when quotas will end and only merit selections from then on. That is the day we all look forward to.
We have the Craven week on at the moment – there’s talent to burn out there. SA rugby still looks good for a while.
1 Jul 2010, 22:24 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-392:
yes i personally agree with you – but the debate being constructed or put forward is a politically correct version of the big debate- not the real debate.
@grant10(grant10)-391:
u’re an idiot.
1 Jul 2010, 22:34 pm
@cab(cab)-393:
You’re right – all this PC stuff gives me the screaming sh its.
If a guy is good enough for selection, well that’s it.
Paticia de Lille, a firebrand from the PAC (now with the ID), said as much even a couple of years ago ie that a whole generation has grown up under our new government and need to stand on their own two feet.
As I said, sportsmen hate being called quotas.
All pigs are equal but some… you know the rest.
That’s the goverment’s mantra.
1 Jul 2010, 22:38 pm
yep, chilliboy is a good player, but he must be playing regular 1st team rugby to be picked for the springboks, this is obvious, no other team in the world picks players who do not play 1st grade rugby.
If the national coach wants to pick certain players, he should insist they get S14 game time somewhere, and if that means the Lions so be it, otherwise the Spears must come into affect.
1 Jul 2010, 22:47 pm
@cab(cab)-395:
I know – what does Frans Ludeke say to Gary Botha or Bandise Maku? what does Alistair Coetzee say to Tiaan Liebenberg?
Botha and Liebenberg both probably wondered why they gave up overseas contracts – for a chance at a WC in 2011. WTF. Other overseas players must be watching developments closely here.
Can PDV look any of these guys in the eye?
Nauseating!
1 Jul 2010, 22:54 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-396:
yeah, but maku is in the same position as rallapelle at the bulls where he gets the odd 10 min spell here and there where it hardly counts and has to play second fiddle to kuhn and botha.
so not only do these black players not develop as they should and therefore be ready for the sprinboks, but we cannot actually compare them to their colleagues like botha and liebenberg and strauss in a topgrade rugby context.
1 Jul 2010, 23:05 pm
@cab(cab)-397:
How we handle it going forward is anybody’s guess.
But PDV and Hoskins should be man enough to lay down the blueprint going forward for every aspirant Bok.
Hell man, that’s utopia.
We need someone with balls who can tell his political masters to get knotted.
As i said earlier, there is no shortage of talent coming through – and i watch school rugby when i can – particularly now with Craven Week on.
1 Jul 2010, 23:16 pm
a lot of
people
tried
to make this
something
else
but this
was
about
chilli
being
a political pawn
or not
the answer is
yes
he is
1 Jul 2010, 23:16 pm
yeah, but i dont think its PdV to blame, he is the national coach and must pick who he wants, but its in the interests of SA rugby that these players find regular game time at the top level somewhere.
i dont have that much of a problem with quotas as such even tho after 16 years or so surely we can look to remove these properly, but the real problem is the lies about it and that these players are not adquately prepared.
raubenheimer and hargreaves are another two examples of players who should be nowhere near the springboks at this point in their career until theyve played at least a full season of S14 and merit their selections.
1 Jul 2010, 23:53 pm
every dumb interpreter and his poodle telling it how it is yet nobody quite knows if its this or that.
Bulls are the culprits actually, wtf they got 4 top rate hookers for all vying for a starting spot? Wtf they call Gary Botha back for if they already got a Chili and a Maku and then they still elevate this flank Kuun above them both?
Idiots thinking they’re being so patronizing and goody two shoes paternally Pc in terms of supporting 2 ‘quotas’ in their setup yet they not doing the players any damn good at all.
So its left for the national coach to set the record straight and re right all the bull sh’t baffles brain dumb @ss wrongs
1 Jul 2010, 23:56 pm
Gary Botha should f.off back to where he came from or go play in France.
Kuun should stick to playing loose forward where his real attributes lie.
Maku or Chili should be starting 2 at Bulls or else they should both find a franchise that does justice to their talents.
1 Jul 2010, 23:57 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-401:
Carefull, you may choke on your anti Bulls bile!
1 Jul 2010, 23:58 pm
Yeah, f off Gary, chopstick has spoken……………
2 Jul 2010, 00:02 am
Bulls are sham artists supreme pretending to be this emancipatory all encompassing progressive franchise where back at the ranch they no more progressive than they were 20 years ago. Big sham shackle smoke screen pretenses. Rugby in Bulls country same as FS and elsewhere still the narrow enclave of white protectionist broederbond indoctrination.
2 Jul 2010, 00:02 am
if quotas are to be enforced they should be done so at S14 level and below, but definitely not at the pinnacle level, i.e. the national team.
However, to say quotas do not exist, aint got anything to do with interpretation, poodles or squirrels – its simply horsemanure lies.
2 Jul 2010, 00:03 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-358: But what about the black “indigenous” African players. Surely its not enough to just be “non-white”… Khompela and the likes of you demand a continuum of disadvantage or disenfranchisement to be variably addressed
2 Jul 2010, 00:03 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-407: or “redressed”. I forget the adequate PC term…
2 Jul 2010, 00:06 am
yeah why don’t you Gary just f.off just like all these other two bit protectionist seekers that run for first world protectionism to some alternative colony and then start calling quota calamity from way over there across the big wide ocean.
2 Jul 2010, 00:07 am
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-394: Fark… someone from Stormer country without wedgie scars from sitting on their PC, pseudoliberal, eminently “enlightened” fences… A man amongst brokebacks… truly rare…
2 Jul 2010, 00:09 am
@cab(cab)-400: It suits the “elite” to have an indefinite timeline…
Chilli for Captain of the King Proteas, Viva!!!
2 Jul 2010, 00:11 am
this is supposed to be a debate about whether there are still political pawns in SA rugby, a person living in or outside of SA, is quite entitled to give their own opinion of a policy which looks to reserve places based on race, this was done by the anti-apartheid movement, many of whom resided outside of SA, during the apartheid years.
These are liberal values being discussed.
2 Jul 2010, 00:11 am
whiteys think this game still enshrined in their dna
About time they realized no such reality. Just cause Bulls management are still racially blindfolded don’t mean quotas exist or not. Problem rests with the dumb schmuck franchise management that are obliterated by inherent inbred supremacy fixation.
Go horse manure yourself till you see wood for trees
2 Jul 2010, 00:12 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-401: Because Gary Botha is better than both of them? Ever considered the option that takes into account proven skill and ability, and excludes hue as a factor…
Naah, wouldn’t think so… You’re still trying to figure out the meaning of life while it passes you by…
2 Jul 2010, 00:14 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-411:
i dont see how anyone can be earmarked as a future springbok captain when he;s not been able to show any sustained form at the top level.
but the struggle folk on here will see this as an attack on rallapelle, which its not, but i cant explain my position any more clearly.
2 Jul 2010, 00:18 am
ah fk actually thats the final straw, i;ve had enough of this emotional stupidity, i;m off. whats the fkn point in discussing things with ppl who could not actually understand a different viewpoint if you had to try explain it to them until eternity comes.
2 Jul 2010, 00:21 am
all the quotas should simply boycott this sham shackled lie
Every so called quota player should simply down tools and let these white supremacists play amongst themselves. After all thats exactly what they been crying out to do since Van Riebeek set foot on this alien soil. Leave them be in their holy rugby religiosity let them play their enshrined god given game till their willy’s fall off in their own hands.
2 Jul 2010, 00:22 am
This is actually a total lie and everyone knows it, but thats what ppl dont want to address. Thats the real point, the lying.
2 Jul 2010, 00:22 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-405: There is no “progressive franchise”… liberalism, diversity and equality are nothing more than a confusing joke to shaft those who persist with guilt…
There is nothing more racist than a honkey with “liberal” outward characteristics…. It isn’t honest, similarly for the “black elite” and the continual clamour for “reparation” and “redress”…
It also is a bit see-through and transparent to see your obvious confusion about who the f.ck you are and what you stand for….
Kickshot, what do you stand for other than colourful but bullsh.t laden prose… Or is that too farking confusing or real to answer for the likes of you and your type…
2 Jul 2010, 00:24 am
The bulls selecting white players is a total lie and the Boks selection claiming merit is a total lie, they’re all lying.
2 Jul 2010, 00:27 am
@cab(cab)-415: Mate, you will go round in round in circles… I have veered from admittedly poor attempts (in hindsight) at sarcasm, attempted humour, self-deprecation and ridiculousness most of today… I think it has been wasted… Must se more tongue in cheek in future…
But alas, that may also be misinterpreted by the self-appointed moral guardians… Even the devil as advocate would have his head in in his hands after headbutting the gavel…
2 Jul 2010, 00:27 am
Gary Botha’s better then who by who’s standards? Yours or who’s?
Thats exactly it its so enshrined in your dumb f.ck white indoctrinated brain that no way could Chili or Maku possibly hold a candle to this overrated dumb schmuck white elephant Botha that stand on their indigenous heads these poor little kraal boys will forever carry the stigma of being whitey’s little quota players.
You rugby schmuckaroos suck because your minds already made up long before the quota player puts his green and gold socks on let alone till he takes to the field of action.
2 Jul 2010, 00:31 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-422: Who says I am “white”…?
You need to go and smoke some more of your string-theory farking quantam weed and realise that this is about a game…
No place t hide on a rugby field at the highest level – passengers chosen on the basis of hue are always exposed when better players are not chosen…
Over and out…
2 Jul 2010, 00:34 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-422:
actually lets just wrap it up here, i sent you an email on the wierd *** stuff but just forget it, its times like this i realise i;ve over-estimated you way too much, sorry for contacting you about the religious stuff i nthe first place and good luck with this site, but as for mei;m done. you actually dont understand, you cant always just follow your heart, there are times when consistency are more important, because no single individual can always be right and their emotion overwhelms them.
2 Jul 2010, 00:37 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-422:
jeez, are you a whitety with a big chip on his shoulder, just a stupid one eyed doos, or always drugged out? Maybe all three? Your anti white, anti Bulls, my way or the highway stance is sooo totally boring…….but hey you got one fan….wet pantie!
You go boy!
2 Jul 2010, 00:38 am
f.off with your guilt cr@p Heavens Tame nobody feeling guilty about f.all unless you are.
Its you dumb elevated idiots that think you still more qualified to play this dumb f.ck ignoramus game than somebody who isn’t up to your preconceived elevated indoctrinated status. Go get f.ck’d take a grand glorious hike back to your roots and wallow in your hyper supreme rugby enlighted superiority. Its inherent in your psyche and in your attitude its so emphatically blindfold mesmerized into your consciousness that no way in hell could Chili possibly be anyway nearly as qualified as this schmuck idiot Botha that you automatically brand him a quota. Same as Heyneke Meyer and Frans Ludeke does.
2 Jul 2010, 00:41 am
“up to your preconceived elevated indoctrinated status”………obviously been looking at yourself in the mirror chopstick?
2 Jul 2010, 00:41 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-410:
What’s a wedgy scar?
Never had one.
Have you?
I thought this thread was dying out and then everyone woke up.
2 Jul 2010, 00:48 am
again, this has nothing to do with superiority, it has to do with lies, with a player who is not being selected by his province and being selected for the springboks on merit when hes had no S14 gametime to support this.
Its lies, simple lies.
2 Jul 2010, 00:48 am
don’t do me any dumb doos favors cabbipatch
Its not me thats confused about who the f.ck they are and what they doing wallowing around in their delusional mesmerized intellectuality. You got a problem with your own existence that ain’t my problem its your own. Find out for yourself wtf you actually doing in this creation if you think your intellect got half a clue about it. Or continue being confused thats up to you, and in fact even that much is out of your non free willed hands..
2 Jul 2010, 00:49 am
Liars all of them includingn you.
2 Jul 2010, 00:50 am
well i’d suggest the only one not confused by their existence are you fundamentalists, that have it all so taped, that look down their nose at teh rest of us poor confused immature souls. what a twat you really are.
2 Jul 2010, 00:52 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-402: they should move if they’re not being giving game time at the Bulls, but I think there was a story on here a while back where Rallephelle signed a new deal. One has to ask if this was the wisest move for his career since he spends most of his time on the bench.
Mind you, the other provinces are well stocked at hooker with Liebenberg, BDP, Strauss…there was only really the Lions who could guarantee him a starting S14 position and I’m not sure many players would be so keen on moving there.
SA need to sort the Lions franchise out or get the Southern Kings up and running.
2 Jul 2010, 01:02 am
@cab(cab)-431:
As i said in a previous post, honesty is the only way forward from here. Up and coming Boks right now, don’t know where they stand – as you said, a brilliant Super 14 doesn’t count for much.
Maybe PDV is the pawn here – we don’t know.
Hoskins and PDV need to sit down and make it clear to the players – and us, the rugby playing public – how long this quota thing is going to last.
The players of colour want to know as much as the whiteys – we cannot carry one like this forever where doubt remains.
It isn’t fair on the player selected or the one left out – both have questions in their head – or should have.
2 Jul 2010, 01:13 am
ok cheers guys
i’m outta here
till tom
2 Jul 2010, 01:17 am
thats right blunderbus call them fundamentalist, thats the easy way out of your blind as bat intellectual confusion. Why not just crucify them on a cross thats the next best option, or boil them in oil, or behead them or burn them alive. All in the name of enlightened scientific secular clarity of reason .
2 Jul 2010, 01:19 am
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-434: it’s a tough one stormer, most of the coaches are white and most of the players are white. Even if they aren’t consciously racist it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that they will naturally favour the white player just as a black coach might favour black players. Quotas are reviled by most however they do provide a safety barrier of sorts in that sense.
There is also a flip side if one considers the potential black pro players have to to inspire young black kids to follow and take up the game. As an example, Jerry Guscott was Paul Sackey’s hero, and Sackey is a big football fan. These kids need player to identify with and spark their interest in the pro game, in the longer term SA might well have a backline with every player as good as Bryan Habana has been. With no Habana’s to look up to, then they might well be lost to football or some other sport.
I do think however the key is a winning team at national level, no one wants to support losers whether they be white, black or yellow.
2 Jul 2010, 01:23 am
Chili had a far better game than Smit did by a landslide against Wales or France.
Both games that Chili started or came on he had fine games nothing short of bok quality and contribution for contribution way better than John Smit had by some distance.
Its a shame that its left to the national coach to fix the foil that the franchise coaches are simply too bogged down in their own erratic fearfilled fallacy to address.
2 Jul 2010, 02:20 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-436:
which scientist has ever boiled, burned or crucified anyone? come on then, name one you blithering idiot, just give us one decent fact for a change.
you think i actually want to see a white player chosen ahead of a black player?
u think i give goddamn about the superiority of rugby in relation to any other sport?
u think i believe europeans are superior to anyone else?
believe what you must, after all you know it all with your magnificent intuition. But you guys are also liars, nowhere else is a player elevated to national team selection when he plays no first grade rugby and its called a merit selection. What an utter outright lie and this is what you will have me believe, nope the only nblunderbus is yourself. You have a very definite agenda when it comes to these selections, where reason is totally thrown out and you seem to rely on your subjective all-knowing knowledege of life, the universe and our human natures. Utter horsehit.
Chilli played against italy at home, what are you fkn talking about you stupid cretin? to be a merit selection he would need to play regularly against smit, bismarck and botha so that we can compate apples v apples.
2 Jul 2010, 03:04 am
Ralepelle has zero self respect, and we all know Skopskiet long lost his on this site and in the ‘real’ world.
2 Jul 2010, 04:28 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-407: firstly f.ck you for this “the likes of you” approach of yours. You don’t know me to be likening me to anyone!
The guys i listed earlier are representative enough for me, they play the game at the highest level and i’m proud of them no less.
Now you can gaan aan about what you think the likes of me are supposedly pursuing…
2 Jul 2010, 06:16 am
Morons:
Firstly the strugle is about equality between the rich and the poor. Colour is incidental and used as tool to create division.
Secondly it is clear that some these
racist bloggers are actually Keolings
getting the blog mark over 400. Shameful really.
Thirdly there is a clear distinction between inteligence and wisdom. Yes I know I have niether…
If you live in the past your past becomes your future. If you seek injustice in everything you will find it.
So lay off the genaralisations…
2 Jul 2010, 06:35 am
@Bouts(Bouts)-56: was Ollie Le Roux really a goal-kicker?
2 Jul 2010, 06:53 am
@cab(cab)-439: this whole chiliboy saga is quite astounding, the guy has managed to be in the “mix” of two springbok coaching regimes even though he has had limited game time
2 Jul 2010, 07:05 am
the Springbok team should go like this
Wiaan du Preez
Gary Botha
Werner Kruger
Bakkies Botha
Victor Matfield
Schalk Burger
Juan Smith
Pierre Spies
Jano Vermaak
Morne Steyn
Francois Hougaard
Jean De Villiers
Jacque Fourie
Gerhard Van der Heever
Frans Steyn
Strauss
Jan du Plessis
Andries Bekker
Dewalt Potgieter
Ruan Pienaar
Wynand Olivier
Hennie Daniller
This will make every rugby loving pundit in this country (and abroad) proud as punch
No more hollering about racism and quotas, no more crying and gnashing of white teeth about non merit players getting picked. The team will represent this multi talented and multi faceted nation of ours and we can continue to be proud and patriotic pure bred South African rugby supporters. I mean this is the holy tradition of Springbok rugby we talking here, no sullying of tradition and blood line do we encourage or support and espouse. So all you non merit political pawn quotas better f.ck right off and go play your beloved soccer game instead.
I just wish they would play this merit selected non racial team then we can go on winning every World Cup and every tri nations tournament just like we always did in the good old days when Bok rugby was Bok Rugby and no damn meddling by politicians forced any non merit impure specimen into our fold
Keep it pure keep it rugby keep it untainted by political pawn quota selections keep it real
Go Bokke
2 Jul 2010, 07:18 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-445:
2 Jul 2010, 08:57 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-441:
After much of a day reading your simplistic generalisations about my supposed colonialist tendancy’s you throw a little tantrum after receiving a bit of your own medicine… Farking funny and very predictable…
2 Jul 2010, 09:03 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-426: Aaah, then explain why I think Aplon, JdJ and Mvovo are the next best things as sliced bread…
Not so easy to place in a predetermined box, you transcendental meditating trance bunny…
Who is the generalizing superiority monger now…?
Thats right, you will never reply to a direct question, because it is beyond that peanut of yours you mistake for a brain, no matter how creative it is with colourful prose…
2 Jul 2010, 09:11 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-445:
good and
well
thought out
post
2 Jul 2010, 09:19 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-423: ja
ask john smit
fark me he was more than found out!
2 Jul 2010, 09:24 am
@grant10(grant10)-450: He was…? Think you getting confused with Xavi at fetcher and Schweinsteiger at scrumhalf and Giyan at lock… Stick to poofball, it suits you…
2 Jul 2010, 09:31 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-451: found out at 3
and will soon have the best 2 in the world wanting his jersey back.
go plod….best of luck…..
as much a quota as anyone uitlander….wake up and smell the English tea….plonker.
2 Jul 2010, 09:34 am
@grant10(grant10)-452: I would say that most middle aged honkeys sitting in the comfort of Cape Town professing “liberal” values are as buiteland as anyone… You are as probably as alien to Africa as the World Cup visitors to SA… The funny thing is you don’t realise it…
2 Jul 2010, 09:36 am
@grant10(grant10)-452: Barney will be Captain at the World Cup. PdV wants it so, despite politicians and “liberal” honkey Capetonians who are the true uitlanders…
2 Jul 2010, 09:41 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-454: ja….he will….and qualifys as a quota….because he certainly not there on merit.
So before pontificating from your pulpit at the thames ….remember we dont need your or cabs advice…..go support M Johnson and his merry men while telling your friends how kak it is back in darkets Africa…..we will build our country….so do me a favor and f off.
2 Jul 2010, 09:52 am
@grant10(grant10)-455: What makes you think that South Africa needs advice from a honkey “liberal” from Cape Town… Cape Town does not support the government of the people… why? Is it because the ANC cannot be trusted with Clifton, Camps Bay, Hout Bay and the like…
On a simpler rugby level – mess around a brilliant Aplon to satisfy the blond primadonna, and f.ck around JdJ now with the return of another blonde hasbeen JdV… This is just anther sign of the “liberal” values of Province…
The “liberals” of Cape Town – “talk left and walk right”…
You do realise that Cape Town is not viewed as an African City…? Not really much African about it in aspiration…
Its hilarious to see the chirps about “uitlanders” from a middle aged no doubt english-speaking white male esconsed in the relative (to those in Mjondolos not far from you) comfort of Clifton…
Consider yourself exposed…
2 Jul 2010, 09:56 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-456: Merit is as merit does… John Smit has done and will contine to do much…
Quotas like Hanyani Shimange, Owen Nkomane, Chilliboy have not and will not…
2 Jul 2010, 10:03 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-457: you and cab are nothing but big mouth critics deriding whatever we do here…..while you ran away to so called greener pastures…..fark you both my man…..go get citizenship….we dont need or want your type back here.
Cape Town is very much part and parcel of SA….i have only lived in Clifton and Camps Bay for the last 3 years….before that in Melkbosstrand, Bergvliet, Tableview and Milnerton, Harfield Village for a year as well….so dont paint me with a wealthy upmarket brush ….just because it suits your agenda.
I never ran away ….i am here….doing my best to make a contribution…and fiercely proud…..more than i can say for you Uitlander….
so…i repeat….go give advice to M Johnson…..
leave pdv alone….he doesent need your kak….
now have to run uitlander….need to make a living…..
2 Jul 2010, 10:16 am
@grant10(grant10)-458: I never said you were “wealthy”… Conceit know no bounds, ne.
I have not run away…
Have skills, knowledge, do and will use… So your simplistic xenophobic rubbeesh does not wash…
Cheers Capetonian “african”….
You are just another ignorant middle-aged honkey liberal…
2 Jul 2010, 10:18 am
@grant10(grant10)-452: Well well nothing changes in this world it seems. G10 you have to do something about the hatred for John. Go read his book , the comments about Luke were sensationalised by the press and not given in the proper context but i guess that won’t change your mind.
I find it amazing that you are willing to overlook comments by players you rate about the important role John plays in the Springbok set up, whilst praising those same players for their contribution. So what you are saying is that the same players are good players but rather thick individuals when it comes to their judgements and opinions.
2 Jul 2010, 10:21 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-447: colonialist!!!!!
2 Jul 2010, 10:23 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-459:your simplistic views on grant betray you ingrained ignorance hahahaha
2 Jul 2010, 10:24 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-461: I’m surprised you haven’t said “gwaan, blaady spaai” like your “youth” leader and the rest of your Sandtonista revolutionary type…
2 Jul 2010, 10:25 am
i see
the papsak
and chemicals
have messed
bigtime
again
with skopskiet’s
brain
last night
this morning
he tries
to make
ammends
with a
reasonable
post
2 Jul 2010, 10:25 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-462: What “simplistic” views? Educate me, enlightened, sophisticated “Transformation”…
2 Jul 2010, 10:27 am
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-464: LOL. The Porra of Zen. Like Kickshot, there is only one Porra
2 Jul 2010, 10:36 am
@grant10(grant10)-458:
Don’t include Cab in your accusations. Over the years he’s been one of the more balanced bloggers, who’s prepared to discuss rather than pontificate, and acknowledge others points.
2 Jul 2010, 10:37 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-463: it’s a free country anyone cam live in Sandton now, probably the last time you were here the Group Areas Act was still in place.
2 Jul 2010, 10:38 am
@David(David)-467: Just another Capetonian “african”…
2 Jul 2010, 10:39 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-465: why bother, you will croak over there on mud island soon enough and we wont have to deal with your whinging type
2 Jul 2010, 10:41 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-468: Aah, so it was in place June 2010…?
Funny that, it seems you are a bit removed from your “people” aren’t you… Lost your traditions…? Thats the price of “Model-C”…
2 Jul 2010, 10:43 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-470: “Whingeing”…
Is the dam of insults dry… Lost your manhood…? 
2 Jul 2010, 10:49 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-470: Or are you singing Bashuka Ndabazini with pretence…
2 Jul 2010, 10:50 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-469:
Oh, go and pull some wings off a butterfly, or whatever people like you do for kicks, you irritating little man.
2 Jul 2010, 10:55 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-472: it’s not an insult it’s a fact.
The eastern cape has very good schools with years of tradition, ask sodajoe
2 Jul 2010, 10:58 am
@David(David)-474: Sprout… You are confused aren’t you…
2 Jul 2010, 11:01 am
pathetic grant10.
so now south africans cant comment about south african issues if they live outside the country?
you truly are a tunc of note.
the last thing we need is your kind in this country, rather fk off to someplace they appreciate xenophobes. i said it once before, in germany 1938, you would have worn a brown shirt.
2 Jul 2010, 11:02 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-475: You obviously have lost the meaning… Disappointing, sometimes it has to be spelled out for your generation of lost tradition…
But as you say “why bother” !
I must just amuse myself with the confusion, which is blaady funny, ne?
2 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-477: “in germany 1938, you would have worn a brown shirt” classic…
Keo.co.za is finding form again…
Xenophopic middle-aged Capetonian Mlungus, eminently rational observers from KZN, aspirant confused Sandtonista flunkys and the Zen Master colourful prose crafters. Not to mention the seemingly timid AB supporters coming out of their shells slowly…
Its lining up for a cracker…
All thats left is for tinderbox Gunther to light the fuse (did I say tenderbox)…
2 Jul 2010, 11:21 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-477:
Just leave Grant 10 alone. He’s just pissed that his ex lover Luke Watson doesnt have a World Cup, Tri Nations and Lions tour winners medal as captain in his possession.
I actually think he’s still on the ‘Bring back Luke’ crusade.
Shem…
2 Jul 2010, 11:24 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-480: Eish…
2 Jul 2010, 11:40 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-480: ja, and he is acting more and more like a p e nis with his bs about saffas who are furthering themselves in the BIG WIDE WORLD (that place outside of the republic of camps bay).
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-479: funnily enough i think i am right about grant.
2 Jul 2010, 11:45 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-479: lol @ “eminetly rational observers from kzn” hahahaha wow such obsequience.
you and rangeman are lank funny 
2 Jul 2010, 11:49 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-483: Obseqiuence is a big word… No struggle credentials using that on a Rugby site
2 Jul 2010, 11:54 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-483: its my pleasure transie.
will you be joining your gabba grant as he hunts down “uitlanders” who dare to have an opinion?
the simple fact that you didnt comment on that point of view shows that your views are far from objective.
but what can i expect from someone who applauded the suspension of beasts right to play?
2 Jul 2010, 12:03 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-485: Was Beast also labelled an Uitlander by Sandtonistas and Honkey Capetonian “Africans”… Well, in that case I wear that label with pride…
2 Jul 2010, 12:10 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-486: ja, uitlanders all.
i wonder if grant has discussed his view with his DA supporting friends?
they did after all seem to think that expat saffas had as much right to vote as…oh, prisoners?
2 Jul 2010, 12:11 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-485: by all means assume sh.t on my behalf i expect nothing less. What Grant says is his opinion & i’m not obliged to express any views on it in the same way you don’t comment when heavens game or Tacitus or doppies is better than de jongh spew their nonsense all over this site. So shove the last post up your
“eminetly rational observer
” behind.
2 Jul 2010, 12:17 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-488:
i assume that you find it objectionable when others do as you do by making assumptions then?
“colonialist mentality” ring a bell my native?
2 Jul 2010, 12:19 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-485: as for the beast issue, did you see me celebrate? Am i not allowed to express my opinion now that SARU fu.cked up in only considering the irb rules and not looking into the immigration laws of the country? What part of that came out as celebratory? It is the law of the country it should be bent for nobody, even a rugby player loved by all.
If you care to know you will realise that the ammendment was made to curb more the influx of foreign football players in south africa than rugby, but i know you’re not bothered with facts only propaganda is paramount to you. Hlonga ndlebe!
2 Jul 2010, 12:27 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-490: easy now tranise, dont get all worked up
i consulted the Book of Grant and it seems you are indeed allowed to comment on the beast issue as you live within the borders of south africa.(though your view and that of khompela and co. smacks of xenophobia to me, much like granties ergo the comparison, geddit?)
phansi with uitlander views, phansi! (hope fifa arent reading this, they may ban grant from those games featureing uitlanders that grant is swooning over).
2 Jul 2010, 12:31 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-487: You must be joking… the 26′s, 27s and 28′s having a vote…. The farking DA has always been as African as Washington consensus democracy hasn’t it… The Capetonian DA – last refuge of the honkey liberal – “talk left, walk right”, go for a swim at Camps Bay, sip cocktails at the V&A and conveniently forget about the mjondolos.
Not to mention stuff the Weepee team with an eminently blonde quota and mess arond true merit and skill embodied by JdJ and Aplon. But that isn’t DA – I’m being unfair…
2 Jul 2010, 12:32 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-490: Now look who’s throwing a hissy fit
2 Jul 2010, 12:34 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-492:
2 Jul 2010, 12:37 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-491: I see you really want to hit the 500 mark.
2 Jul 2010, 12:38 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-495: it
2 Jul 2010, 12:38 pm
is
2 Jul 2010, 12:38 pm
going
2 Jul 2010, 12:39 pm
to
2 Jul 2010, 12:39 pm
be mine!
2 Jul 2010, 12:43 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-491
enophobia? Hehehe you’re on another level now, did i make the law? 
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-492: no hissy fits here
just the cold hard facts for the “eminently rational observer from kzn” to stew over & enjoy with his haul of bugs
2 Jul 2010, 12:53 pm
500 plus! I was right!
2 Jul 2010, 12:58 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-502: with my compliments.
@Transformation(Transformation)-501: jaja, just leave the somalis alone if they want to run spaza shop ok?
2 Jul 2010, 13:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-501: At least you have the “eminently rational” part right… I was beginning to give up, like a typical colonialist when his subjects become ungrateful and restless…
2 Jul 2010, 16:01 pm
lol, this has been one of the funniest threads on keo.
true intellectual capacity of the various bloggers shining through
5 Jul 2010, 15:12 pm
I REMEMBER WHEN JAKE WHITE TOOK OVER THE BOK JOB PRACTICALLY EVERY PLAYER IN THE CURRIE CUP WAS A SPRINGBOK.THE IDEA IS THAT ONCE YOU HAVE INVESTED IN PLAYERS AND THEY HAVE NEVER LET THE SIDE DOWN. YOU DON’T CAST THEM ASIDE WHEN THEY ARE NOT GETTING GAME TIME AT THEIR RESPECTIVE PROVINCE OR THEY ARE COMING BACK FROM INJURY.
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