The big debate
1 Jul 2010
Has Chiliboy Ralepelle become a political pawn?
YES
Ollie le Roux, former Springbok prop
‘I think it’s a disgrace that Chiliboy was selected for the Springbok Test against Wales, especially when you consider he only played 20 minutes of Super Rugby this season and is the third-choice hooker at the Bulls.
‘There are so many world-class hookers in South Africa at the moment, with John Smit, Bismarck du Plessis [who’s currently injured], Tiaan Liebenberg, Gary Botha, Adriaan Strauss and Bandise Maku all in great form. Chiliboy’s selection is disrespectful to those hookers who deserve a call-up, as well as to the Bok team.
‘It’s sad for Chiliboy because he obviously doesn’t pick himself, yet he’s the one who has to suffer the consequences.
‘Chiliboy was a great player at age-group level and is earmarked to be the next Bok skipper, but this can’t justify his selection for the Cardiff Test. I can’t even remember what he brings to the field because I never see him play. He needs to go to a union where he will be the first-choice hooker and can prove to people that he deserves to be in the Springbok team.’
NO
Robbie Kempson, former Springbok prop
‘Chiliboy’s selection for the Wales Test was criticised because of his lack of game time in the Super 14 but I didn’t have a problem with it. He’s been sidelined for a long time because of injuries, which has seen him drop below Gary Botha and Bandise Maku in the Bulls’ pecking order at hooker. But keeping him in the Bok mix will help with his development as a player and keep him exposed to the team structures.
‘Chiliboy will also learn from the best players in the country and have the guidance of the Bok coaching staff, who can explain exactly what they want from him. That’s the ideal mentoring an up-and-coming player needs.
‘Unfortunately, he will be under fire because people feel he hasn’t proved that he’s worth a Bok call-up. But if he can make a success out of it, he will win the respect of the public.
‘Chiliboy has to remain focused, work hard, and make the most of his opportunities. He’s a good player with plenty of potential, but he has to make the step up.’
– This article first appeared in the July issue of SA Rugby magazine
506 Comments
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1 Jul 2010, 12:50 pm
David Blaine is reportedly furious after Bafana crashed out of the
World Cup – his record of doing absolutely nothing in a box for 42
days was broken by Steven Pienaar.
- The Bafana team visited an orphanage in Cape Town today. “It’s
heartbreaking to see their sad little faces with no hope,” said Jamal,
aged six.
- What’s the difference between the bafana team and a tea bag? The
tea bag stays in the cup longer.
- Perreira was wheeling his shopping trolley across the
supermarket car park when he noticed an old lady struggling with her
bags of shopping. He stopped and asked, “Can you manage dear?” To
which the old lady replied: “No way. You got yourself into this mess.
Don’t ask me to sort it out!”
- What do you call an South African in the knockout stages of the World
Cup? A referee.
- I can’t believe we only managed a draw against a rubbish team we
should easily have beaten. . . . I’m ashamed to call myself Mexican
- What does the South African do when Bafana wins the World Cup? He
switches off the Play Station.
1 Jul 2010, 12:51 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-149: Ahh, just scrolled through your mammoth 143 post now.
1 Jul 2010, 12:51 pm
Chilly was not necessarily 3rd choice at the Bulls. He was injured and only played 4 games at the end of the season. It would not have made sense to pick him for the S14 coming back from a long injury lay off.
However, Chilly needs to play. I’m glad he got a chance to play in the recent tests. If he is just going to warm the bench for the Boks, he will be better off playing CC.
1 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
if chilli captains the boks one day .. then f&(ck knows where our rugby will end up … probably like banana banana nr 80 in the world
1 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
What is at question here is the value of merit. I believe everybody being equal, on merit, Chilliboy shouldn’t be picked. However I do not think this is a racial thing. Merit has for a long time been overlooked, because of the perceived long term potential of one player over another. Examples of this:
Pottgieter
Hargreaves
Chilliboy
Now whether this is the right decision only time will tell, but one guy who was given preferential treatment (still is) is Schalk and he has produced the goods.
Schalk was picked for the 2003 WC over an in form Luke Watson, not having played provincial senior level.
As a rule I don’t believe in these blue-eyed boys. I believe you should 1st prove you are ready through performance. Everybody deserves a fair chance. Look at Morne Steyn, never a blue-eyed boy, people said he choked, now he is the 1st name on the team sheet.
1 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-144:
you are a hoot my friend… funny fella…
the only this is that you are writing past my arguments… I was answering your questions by the way..
s14 form is the the prime selection point…hence the mention of Frans Steyn and Joe and BJ etc..
secondly…WO has not yet “engineered” the kind of s14/CC form for the Boks that everyone, in your view, can… so your theory is offish there… and..
oh… there… read Pissants reply…@143… my sentiments exactly… I guess I’m not as articulate in dumbing down to the masses as he is…
…
1 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
@willievz(willievz)-152:
Sorry, it is only big because I copied heaven’s post in their too.
1 Jul 2010, 12:54 pm
@Doppies_better_than_De_jongh(suffer_guy)-154: Chilly allready captained the Boks! LMAO
1 Jul 2010, 12:54 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-148: I and many other posters still await your expansion with regards to other “technical” areas……
1 Jul 2010, 12:57 pm
@willievz(willievz)-147:
de Villier’s selections reveal that he has no plans regarding structures or future development. It’s very haphazard and usually wrong. He has time and again revealed his stance with “players of colour”, if they don’t perform then it’s someone elses fault and they should be picked regardless. Chili was played twice under Jake, and then under de Villiers years later. He has very little experience and has brought nothing to the table. Earl Rose could learn the structures too, and spend time learning from the best players, but it won’t make him any better. A player can only go so far and it is very clear that Chili is straining to keep level with his peers. Maybe one day he’ll prove me wrong, everyone has the potential for great things, but it is a million to one shot chance of happening. And it’s foolish to select a player on the basis of what they “might be able to do” or are “potentially capable of” if they never EVER show it.
1 Jul 2010, 12:58 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-143: Chilli’s projected injury is being kind considering evidence of his historical injury record… So maybe I was exaggerating with 3 games. Maybe 1 or 2 max?
If you read a useful little book on “How to measure anything” you try and measure intangibles by using a proxy (They measured the size of the blast of the first A-bomb test using the spread of confetti). Market value would be a good comparator but taking into account and adjusting for the leagues that other hookers play – eg SA hookers/front row in GP UK, SA hookers in S14… Compared across teams and adjusting for the overall inflation of salaries for different teams e.g. Sharks pay more than Free State… This powerball would lead me to a conclusion that Chili is definitely not in the top 5…
The Bulls coaching setup (probably the best in SA – using their recent record as measure) don’t rate Chili as high as they do Botha… Simple… You can speculate how they come to that conclusion but the fact is their “ratings” must have validity…
Anything else… or are you going to copy and past my commentary again
1 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-159:
His poor lineout throwing, poor hands, and technical flaws at scrum time.
1 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-155:
Again that is the obvious.
Players needing to prove themselves first.
Of course it plays a part and is important, but it is not even close to being the only consideration when selecting players.
Selecting a player is like investing in stocks.
Depending on your needs, either short term growth or results or more longer term results, you base decision best suited to your needs.
Of course not all investment show a return, the trick is to dump those that will cost you and that is what most coaches will do instinctively.
What you also find is that you will mix and match the two to strengthen your overall portfolia as coach in managing risk not only immediate risk, but also long term risk.
So you might even have one investment condition (form, growth, etc) play a more important role in one instance or selection than in another.
The idea however remains the same.
Your investment options need to show a return, whilst offering relative security with minimal or manageable risk.
Again, don’t just consider the obvious.
1 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-148: “infact jake was very rarely wrong”
fetchers? Wanna fetch jake his beer alucard?
1 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-156: Your strawman has burnt down, along with the fake Kiwi-like “fella” and “dumbing down” stuff
1 Jul 2010, 13:02 pm
Ollie, YOU BLOODY AGENT !!!
1 Jul 2010, 13:02 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-162: you’re talking sh.t and you know it.
1 Jul 2010, 13:03 pm
@wpw(wpw)-150: Are you talking about Chili or John Smit.
Are you comparing Chilli to John Smit…
Aaah, so Chilli will be the next John Smit…?
April is next year…
1 Jul 2010, 13:05 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-160: I think that is unfair. Chilliboy played well against France and Italy, and I for one is very interested to see how he can perform against NZ. But I cannot see the coaching staff giving him game time.
In fact, I see very little game time for Bismarck when he comes back from injury. PDV will be reluctant to substitute Smit with Bismarck in the closing stages of the game, and I don’t think Smit will revert to either 1 or 3 to accommodate Bismarck in the final 20 minutes.
However, before we pass a judgement on Chilli, we need to see how he performs against top dogs. Because so far this year he has impressed me.
1 Jul 2010, 13:06 pm
lionel cronje was u21 player of the year last year, we are thin at flyhalf, why is he not in the springbok set up being groomed for the future? He is as ‘naturally talented’ as say francois hougaard or chiliboy. What is wrong with pdv?
1 Jul 2010, 13:07 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-167:
It’s there for all to see, time and again he has been torn apart in the scrums, only for a sub to replace him and the problem to disipate. His lineout throwing is very iffy at best, his handling isn’t great either, it’s all there to be seen. But if you prefer to have your eyelids welded shut, then you’re more than welcome to do so.
1 Jul 2010, 13:07 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-160: earl rose really had a bad season this year and had some awful performances over over the years but he really is not as useless as most people think. hes one of the best distributers in sa and has an eye for a gap. sadly when he gets it wrong he does so spectacularly
1 Jul 2010, 13:10 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-161:
I would like to see you actually practically give me examples of that formula you speak of so it can be judged in its totality relating to what is happening practically in rugby at the moment.
As far as speculating goes on why coaches select one above the other I have specifically indicated in my post that I am indeed speculating – so no contest from me there.
It would seem however that you, given your post, seem to suggest you are not speculating thus your view carries more weight?
Aren’t you also just speculating with regards to why one player is rated over another by any individual?
Whereas I specifically stated I do not think either Ludeke or De Villiers is either right or wrong, I get the distinct feeling you think differently – more specifically that De Villiers is wrong, and Ludeke right.
I would think that is quite arrogant since that is only based on speculation in the first place?
Oh and for the record, the Boks coaching staff’s record is not bad either and they consistently play against the best a whole country has to offer – in Super rugby at least you get teams like the Lions every now and then.
In fact, De Villiers record as coach is currently 72%.
Ludeke, during the same period he has been in charge at the Bulls is sitting at 66%
So your point on who the best coaching team is – is also, very relative.
1 Jul 2010, 13:13 pm
I was always of the opinion that to get picked for the boks you had to be the best in your position at the province you played for and not 3rd choice for your province,but snor always has to be an arsehole and think he knows best when clearly he does not.I am sorry for chilliboy but he is just a quota selection from a quota coach he never asked for this attention,i just wish he would leave the bulls and play somewhere else as first choice hooker and gain some playing time.If I was gary botha i would be pissed off at chilliboy getting picked for the boks ahead of me.
1 Jul 2010, 13:14 pm
But as much fun as this is, I am out.
Ciao.
1 Jul 2010, 13:15 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-106: Is it because the Bulls are frustrating you in not picking an all-black front row similarly to the frustration you felt when that funny team from the E Cape named one mlungu in the front row (Already colonialised with the name “Bulldogs”? – A bit English for an African team you would think…)
Why mention what the “Afrikaners” do or don’t… Are the Bulls an “Afrikaner” S14 team…? What has that got to do with the slection or not of Chilli as no 1 hooker… Zane Kirchner is no. 1 Fullback at the Bulls, you know…
1 Jul 2010, 13:15 pm
It is clear to me that former captains at junior levels such as Hargreaves, Chilliboy and Potgieter get cherry-picked and drafted into senior squads earlier than their peers.
The Bok coaching team see the need to groom their leadership corps first to succeed Smit and Matfield especially.
Seen in this light, the Chilliboy selection carries more value to the neutral supporter.
I for one support this strategy wholeheartedly.
1 Jul 2010, 13:16 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-171: did you watch the 3rd british & irish lions test and the 2nd half of the recent french test? You are imagining things chap.
1 Jul 2010, 13:19 pm
@Beertjie(Beertjie)-158:
…
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-165:
you’re funny…
but the funny thing about your carefully constructed and dare I say researched response…
“The Bulls coaching setup (probably the best in SA – using their recent record as measure) don’t rate Chili as high as they do Botha… Simple… You can speculate how they come to that conclusion but the fact is their “ratings” must have validity…”
can also be used for Chilli… let me try it..
“The Boks coaching setup (probably the most powerful in SA – using their extensive coaching experience) don’t rate Botha as high as they do Chilli.. now that’s simple..You can speculate how they come to that conclusion but the fact is their “ratings” must have validity…”
bias is a b i t c h…
the funny thing is that when we are, we don’t even know we are… we spew forth “facts” instead of just saying “I’m biased” … 
I have no problem with someone saying “I prefer Botha to Chilli”… the same I have no problem with PdV saying… “I prefer Chilli..”
…
1 Jul 2010, 13:19 pm
@blueboy(blueboy)-174: was francois steyn the fullback at the sharks last year, which is the position pdv played him in the tri-nations?
1 Jul 2010, 13:22 pm
@blueboy(blueboy)-174: pdv is not the first coach to pick beyond the popular players and he wont be the last. remember jake white fetching bobby from retirement for w/c.
1 Jul 2010, 13:23 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-173: You are presming what I think… Jake White wasn’t wrong in selecting Luke the puke… Jake had to select Luke the Puke it seems…
PdV has to select Chilliboy…? He is not more “right” or more “wrong”…
I know that PdV is a very good coach – so you don’t have to wheel ut the stats…. He is not a suitable straw man for Chiliboy… Kuun is, to a certain extent, so credit to the fool wh used him…
That is besides the point – Chiliboy is not the second best hooker in SA at the moment. Now the best in position does not necessarily mean best for the Boks eg JdJ > Olivier (Who is probably best 12). But selecting Chilli as back up hooker is like selecting Andries Strauss as back up for whoever the no.1 12 will be… Not right, is it – however you try and pseudorationalise…
1 Jul 2010, 13:26 pm
@willievz(willievz)-177:
So do I.
1 Jul 2010, 13:26 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-179: Read post 182 – the first 3 lines…
Where did I mention bias – is it on the mind…? Now turn the colour/representivity/previoudly disadvantaged/positive discrimination dial to max. volume…
You have a platform and many are converted… Rock Star!
1 Jul 2010, 13:26 pm
@blueboy(blueboy)-174: But you also get white quotas like Potgieter and Hargreaves. And indeed Schalk when he was 1st selected. What makes Chilli a real quota is that 4 years after his initial unfair opportunity he has done nothing to repay the faith shown in him.
1 Jul 2010, 13:29 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-182: My farking keyboards “u’s” and “o’s” – I must promise to myself not to type words with these letters like “Useful idiOts” and “fOOls” too often…
1 Jul 2010, 13:33 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-180: Bwaaaahaahaaahahaha. So comparisons of Chilli with F Steyn now abound – imagine if Chilli could play anywhere in the scrum, and be injury free for more than a few games – and was selected there on evidence of past performances – he too would be something…
Transie Williams the comedian… “Gooooooood Mooooooorning Vietnaaaaaaaaaam”….
1 Jul 2010, 13:34 pm
Why did they get a controversial “rugby villain“: Ollie le Roux, to state that Chiliboy is a political pawn- but they get a goodguy Kempson for the negative?
Most people reading the twos’ comments on the matter would automatically be influenced and biased against Ollie’s opinion, simply because of his image/reputation.
(And thus minimizing the impact and point of the article- or at least what we know is true or so to a certain extent).
??
1 Jul 2010, 13:34 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-182: pdv doesnt have to select anyone. he insisted on having final say on team selection before signing contract
1 Jul 2010, 13:35 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-185:
” repay the faith shown in him.”
Apart from the one match where he captained the Boks, he spent his time on the bench under Jake, and then had a long line of injuries. You make it sound as if he consistently failed to perform.
1 Jul 2010, 13:37 pm
Selections like Chilli and Ricky cast a shadow over the whole selection process as both of them are second or third in line at their franchises.
What motivation is there for a player to strive towards Bok caps if you know that an inferior player might crack the nod based on whatever bullsh*t excuse PdV coughs up on the day.
1 Jul 2010, 13:41 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-187: don’t make a fool of yourself. Blueboy said it was always his opinion that a player has to be the best at his franchise in the particular position for them to be selected for the boks, i’m merely telling him that his opinion is misguided.
Now you are just looking like a useful idiot laughing at passing flies
hahaha
1 Jul 2010, 13:41 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-189: Yeah, but all coaches have “final say” – or they think they do or they say they do… Ask Jake White, Nick Mallet, Kitch Christie… Naah, ask all head coaches of S14 teams or representative teams, they all can select whoever they want… but withing the context of “representivity” or “quotas” or “demographics” or etc, etc Obviously excepting the SA U20′s now after the embarassing SF snotklap at their WC. Apparently they can select anyone without any political/race/hue/cultural/”insert PC term” considerations whatsoever…
Its good for the ego – the coach must always have the perception of being in control… “Isn’t it”, as Naas frequently says…
1 Jul 2010, 13:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-184: You “sound” irritated… I apologise if I’ve have irritated you
does it help for me to say that you are one of my favourite bloggers…?
Now can you repeat after me… “I… PREFER…BOTHA!”… I would too by the way… not because he’s better… but because he is a “favourite” of mine…
1 Jul 2010, 13:45 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-162: Thats laughable, he has only lost one lineout this season, no knock ons so far, scrums have been good. Do you really watch rugby or you just rely on rugby talk during a braai and at the pub
1 Jul 2010, 13:45 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-192: Hahahaha, nothing justifiable left to say – attack the person/messenger…. Communist/Maoist revolutionary manual 101…
I am certainly laughing at some passing flies here…impukane uyadlula
1 Jul 2010, 13:46 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-191: Being the first choice in your position at your franchise does not mean you are a better choice at national level than the player you are keeping out on provincial level.
The Bulls gameplan and structures are different to that of the Boks. Gary Botha might suit the Bulls better, but Chilliboy suits the Boks better due to his development potential post 2011 and knowledge of existing structures.
Same with Ricky Januarie and Dewald Duvenhage. The former has 40+ test caps and is a valuable asset for the Boks on defense around the fringes, whereas the Stormers gameplan thrive on quick ruck ball.
1 Jul 2010, 13:49 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-176: is Afrikaner a swear word?, Gary Botha and Derrick Kuun, are they not Afrikaners?.
1 Jul 2010, 13:50 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-194: Naah, both Chilli and Botha are irrelevant anyway because the Boks already have the Barney and Bismarck show…
Next time I will try and find an apple like a good teacher’s pet…
Careful of the worm, baby, the worm…
1 Jul 2010, 13:50 pm
@willievz(willievz)-197:
AH, HAHAHAHA!!!
WTF ever boet.
I think we both know that this is not how it works.
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