The big debate
1 Jul 2010
Has Chiliboy Ralepelle become a political pawn?
YES
Ollie le Roux, former Springbok prop
‘I think it’s a disgrace that Chiliboy was selected for the Springbok Test against Wales, especially when you consider he only played 20 minutes of Super Rugby this season and is the third-choice hooker at the Bulls.
‘There are so many world-class hookers in South Africa at the moment, with John Smit, Bismarck du Plessis [who’s currently injured], Tiaan Liebenberg, Gary Botha, Adriaan Strauss and Bandise Maku all in great form. Chiliboy’s selection is disrespectful to those hookers who deserve a call-up, as well as to the Bok team.
‘It’s sad for Chiliboy because he obviously doesn’t pick himself, yet he’s the one who has to suffer the consequences.
‘Chiliboy was a great player at age-group level and is earmarked to be the next Bok skipper, but this can’t justify his selection for the Cardiff Test. I can’t even remember what he brings to the field because I never see him play. He needs to go to a union where he will be the first-choice hooker and can prove to people that he deserves to be in the Springbok team.’
NO
Robbie Kempson, former Springbok prop
‘Chiliboy’s selection for the Wales Test was criticised because of his lack of game time in the Super 14 but I didn’t have a problem with it. He’s been sidelined for a long time because of injuries, which has seen him drop below Gary Botha and Bandise Maku in the Bulls’ pecking order at hooker. But keeping him in the Bok mix will help with his development as a player and keep him exposed to the team structures.
‘Chiliboy will also learn from the best players in the country and have the guidance of the Bok coaching staff, who can explain exactly what they want from him. That’s the ideal mentoring an up-and-coming player needs.
‘Unfortunately, he will be under fire because people feel he hasn’t proved that he’s worth a Bok call-up. But if he can make a success out of it, he will win the respect of the public.
‘Chiliboy has to remain focused, work hard, and make the most of his opportunities. He’s a good player with plenty of potential, but he has to make the step up.’
– This article first appeared in the July issue of SA Rugby magazine
506 Comments
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1 Jul 2010, 19:33 pm
@David(David)-350:
I am reminded of the Jack Nicholson movie about not being able to handle the truth!
1 Jul 2010, 19:37 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-345: Bissy and Gary in my humble opinion.And Chilliboy probably.
1 Jul 2010, 19:43 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-349:
you spent
the first
part
of today
trying to
explain
quotas
away
maybe
you should
only
post
after sunset
chilli
is that
quota
some
are trying
to explain
away
rolleye
1 Jul 2010, 19:44 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-351:
I never saw it. What most people ignore is that the future of the game in SA is dependent on growing it amongst the majority of the population. This includes both spectators and players. Whilst a number of bloggers are adament that the Bok selections are inviolate, the game is dying at player grass roots level in the traditionally white schools. A WC victory enhances the support amongst the black population for a while, but it doesn’t attract many black kids to what is seen as a white sport.
1 Jul 2010, 19:45 pm
@David(David)-348: Take that “young man” shite and shove it where your intellect can take it…
You stepped into a commentary where I unfortunately had to re-educate Tranny about the facts of life…
I do find it amusing but tiresome sometimes and there is not enough time to do the same for you today…
Maybe another time I will endeavour to expand your understanding when you again decide that the best place for your head is not necessarily that dark, comfortable place beneath the sand…
1 Jul 2010, 19:45 pm
@David(David)-354:
so what
now
1 Jul 2010, 19:48 pm
Thats all for now folks… outtahere…
Transie, always a pleasure…
Pissant, you must try harder…
Porra, give them some Zen…
Others cheers,
and David, the evil eye is watching you from now on…
1 Jul 2010, 19:51 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-346: that’s what you’re missing charlie…if Butana wants to see a minimum of 5 players of colour in the team to satisfy himself that it representative he will start counting. 1. Habana, 2. Guthro, 3. Juan de Jongh, 4 Zane, 5. Aplon…done
team meats the required number.
1 Jul 2010, 19:51 pm
@grant10(grant10)-352: in fairness G10 your Smit crusade is slightly more appropriate this year than last year, his form is not where it could/should be. Needs to pick it up.
I think the Boks are in for a bit of a humbling this year in NZ, do hope I’m wrong tho, pains me to watch kiwi ***** think they’re the best.
1 Jul 2010, 19:53 pm
Just as a thought…
Over the years I think we could all identify black or coloured players which no doubt has had, or still have, as much ability as the next guy or for the sake of this debate, a white guy.
I am not disillusioned to think for one second the problem with these guys not making the step up only lies with ‘preferential’ treatment of coaches towards white players – that is just daft.
Social-economic factors obviously plays a role as-well.
Personally I can think of a couple of guys I think suffered from this none more so than Solly T who simply was not equipped (in my humble opinion) to deal with the pressures of this kind of life or career.
But more to the point we have to ask why a Chili, largely viewed as a quota never made the step up from a very promising age group career and ability to one of similar stature at senior level.
Of course it is a mixed bag of reasons, some of which mainly include mismanagement of players (black and white) but then of course we can also ask why Chili, who has been with the Bulls have been mis-managed for 5 or 6 years now???
I surely cannot justify a flank retread being picked ahead of him which no doubt halted his development to senior level and it cannot be because of injury because he was not injured for the last 6 years…
If I were to guess a figure of talented, and good enough black or coloured players at junior or age group levels failing at senior levels I think an estimation of 70% failure rate is conservative.
We have to ask why that is.
If a guy like Chili obviously has shown to have the talent and ability, why has he not made the step up?
Personally, it is a combination between the individual and the management of that individual.
I am a huge supporters of positive transformation, but I am an even bigger critic of the policies and programs in place currently.
1 Jul 2010, 19:56 pm
@David(David)-354:
Had a conversation with a guy from Gauteng today, and how rugby is dying in traditional rugby schools in Gauteng at an alarming rate – which is evident in what we see at Craven Week…
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-357:
At what?
1 Jul 2010, 19:56 pm
Heavens Shame trying to educate those who are his life superiors. Like the second grade kid trying to educate the enlightened professor.
There are few advanced intellects on this site but those that think they are advanced are quite precisely the babies while those they look down their elongated snouts at are laughing at their pitiful non realized immaturity with disdain.
1 Jul 2010, 19:58 pm
Out for now.
Ciao.
1 Jul 2010, 19:58 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-359: why was twits censored?
1 Jul 2010, 20:00 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-362:
so stop
thinking
that
you are
advanced
and bury
your
elongated snout
in
your a-hole
hear
the laughter
1 Jul 2010, 20:01 pm
chow
piss
stick to
coaching
1 Jul 2010, 20:02 pm
I doubt the dud ever been anything BUT a token
After he was corked up twice in a row at Witbank I abandoned watching the Test, had enough
1 Jul 2010, 20:03 pm
eish
ciao
not chow
lets leave
those dogs
alone
1 Jul 2010, 20:05 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-366:
Perhaps…
I always only got into fights when involved in administration.
1 Jul 2010, 20:06 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-362:
Did you see where those breeker prima donna bullie boys are playing their final Craven Week game?
In the parking lot – LMFAO.
1 Jul 2010, 20:06 pm
Okay gone now for at least an hour.
1 Jul 2010, 20:07 pm
there is perhaps something to be said for junior players maturing faster than others and then those maturing late catching up and surpassing their physical and perhaps even mental growth patterns in early adulthood.
Age group stars don’t always translate into adult sports hero’s. However the coaching inconsistencies here in this country’s rugby franchises are still emphatically slanted towards trying to protect a dying legacy of broederbond religiosity in a particular sport at every possible attempt.
1 Jul 2010, 20:09 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-359: ja….not so sure about that either….last year our scrums were an embaressing shambles….and thats being kind!
This year we may get a better platform, but i believe we will miss Bissy, Brussow. j smith and FS greatly.
Ja….will be tough away leg….lots of new faces….as 2010 always was going to be.
1 Jul 2010, 20:12 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-355:
Patronisation isn’t your sole preserve.
1 Jul 2010, 20:17 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-361:
I had the same info from SARU 3 years ago. They are aware of the problem and it scares them.
1 Jul 2010, 20:17 pm
yep WP EP and FS are the nurseries of SA rugby while Bully breker Bulls and Sharks scum off the pickings pretending to be the custodians of the country’s talent yet its same as soccer these days where players chase the high profile clubs seeking to maximize income and in so doing practically selling out on the nursery that nursed them to maturity.
1 Jul 2010, 20:25 pm
I certainly hope the average saffa rugby supporter has girded up his expectations to expect rather less than more this year.
Anyone thinking we so far superior to either Ab’s or Wallabies in 2010 are opening themselves up for some hyper ventillating realizating just around the corner.
1 Jul 2010, 20:25 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-376:
You’ve hit the nail on the head. Anyway I need to go and eat. See you later if you’re still around.
1 Jul 2010, 20:29 pm
my apologies to ranting over PDV s choice re the omission of F Steyn.
I have reliably learnt that Frans was only ever available for the wales game due to his complicated contract and that talks are being held with Racing to sort out for future….PDV has stated categorically that FS is very much in his plans and no personality clash , etc.
So PDV…i am sorry for the rant….[ although i still feel you werr a wally for ever letting plod near the 3 jersey ] .
1 Jul 2010, 20:30 pm
@grant10(grant10)-379:
Hubris
1 Jul 2010, 20:35 pm
so long David
Take it easy if I don’t catch you round later
1 Jul 2010, 20:38 pm
@grant10(grant10)-379: from now on i’m going to call you Quick Rant McGrant!!!!
1 Jul 2010, 20:40 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-377:
not being
made
easier
by
non-merit
selections
like
ricky and
chilli
non-merit
sounds good
eh
better than
quota
1 Jul 2010, 20:44 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-382: must admit the rugby scene a bit boring at the moment now that i dont really have a crusade on the go.
Smit back at 2 has taken the wind out my sails….in fact i reckon all is pretty hunky dory ….no complaints from me.
Of course things may change ….like if they play Ruan at 15 or JDV at 14!!
But all in all….its plain sailing.
Going to the VIP section of the fan park tomorrow, the blonde cracked a cool invite…..should be cool.
Spain going to win this WC transie.
1 Jul 2010, 20:45 pm
@Porra the Fat Speedster(Porra)-383: gotten over the Spain caning yet Porra?
1 Jul 2010, 20:48 pm
@grant10(grant10)-385:
not yet
but
i’ll be
wailing
for arg
and the
terrible
hun
from now
on
i still
remain a
rugby porra
though
forever
1 Jul 2010, 20:51 pm
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster(Porra)-386: i was lucky enough to be there….supported Portugal…but was won over by the Spanish who were simply unreal.
I have played with and against a lot of Portugese players in my time…..i know the love and passon for football that flows through the veins…..respect and condolences….
1 Jul 2010, 21:05 pm
@grant10(grant10)-384: well i’ll be watching the dutch duel with seleciao live @ the mnb stadium, wow! Brazil vs Holland
i must be dreaming for sure. This is the stuff of legends, i will tell my grandkids that ek was daar! 
1 Jul 2010, 21:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-388: that is magic Transie….enjoy my man….its all about creating memories and being part of it!
I have not as yet been able to get a ticket for the germany…argie game or the semi….but will be on the fan mile soaking in the atmosphere…..it is what makes life great!
1 Jul 2010, 21:59 pm
Its pretty simple, ask yourself whether a team like the All Blacks, with all their depth, would continue to select a player whose played 20mins of Super14 rugby in an entire season?
The answer is no.
It is quite obviously political.
This is not the debate. The debate has two main questions:
1.) Are quotas still justified?
2.) Should SARU be allowed to confirm their selection policy is not politically influenced (i.e. quotas) when it quite obviously is.
I personally think there is probably a reasonably case for quotas, but this selection is undoubtedly political, at least have some honesty.
1 Jul 2010, 22:12 pm
another ‘uitlander’ wanting to call the shots….
Bloody wallys
1 Jul 2010, 22:21 pm
@cab(cab)-390:
Hi CAB
I think we all feel affected by these decisions.
16 years after democracy we still have quotas, AA in our businesses etc
I just feel that the playing fields are still notlevel – a whole generation has grown up in a democratic environment – I know coz my daughter has grown up in this.
Do you think Habana or Ashwell Prince or such like appreciate it being called quotas – of course they hate it.
What we require is a line drawn in the sand as to when quotas will end and only merit selections from then on. That is the day we all look forward to.
We have the Craven week on at the moment – there’s talent to burn out there. SA rugby still looks good for a while.
1 Jul 2010, 22:24 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-392:
yes i personally agree with you – but the debate being constructed or put forward is a politically correct version of the big debate- not the real debate.
@grant10(grant10)-391:
u’re an idiot.
1 Jul 2010, 22:34 pm
@cab(cab)-393:
You’re right – all this PC stuff gives me the screaming sh its.
If a guy is good enough for selection, well that’s it.
Paticia de Lille, a firebrand from the PAC (now with the ID), said as much even a couple of years ago ie that a whole generation has grown up under our new government and need to stand on their own two feet.
As I said, sportsmen hate being called quotas.
All pigs are equal but some… you know the rest.
That’s the goverment’s mantra.
1 Jul 2010, 22:38 pm
yep, chilliboy is a good player, but he must be playing regular 1st team rugby to be picked for the springboks, this is obvious, no other team in the world picks players who do not play 1st grade rugby.
If the national coach wants to pick certain players, he should insist they get S14 game time somewhere, and if that means the Lions so be it, otherwise the Spears must come into affect.
1 Jul 2010, 22:47 pm
@cab(cab)-395:
I know – what does Frans Ludeke say to Gary Botha or Bandise Maku? what does Alistair Coetzee say to Tiaan Liebenberg?
Botha and Liebenberg both probably wondered why they gave up overseas contracts – for a chance at a WC in 2011. WTF. Other overseas players must be watching developments closely here.
Can PDV look any of these guys in the eye?
Nauseating!
1 Jul 2010, 22:54 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-396:
yeah, but maku is in the same position as rallapelle at the bulls where he gets the odd 10 min spell here and there where it hardly counts and has to play second fiddle to kuhn and botha.
so not only do these black players not develop as they should and therefore be ready for the sprinboks, but we cannot actually compare them to their colleagues like botha and liebenberg and strauss in a topgrade rugby context.
1 Jul 2010, 23:05 pm
@cab(cab)-397:
How we handle it going forward is anybody’s guess.
But PDV and Hoskins should be man enough to lay down the blueprint going forward for every aspirant Bok.
Hell man, that’s utopia.
We need someone with balls who can tell his political masters to get knotted.
As i said earlier, there is no shortage of talent coming through – and i watch school rugby when i can – particularly now with Craven Week on.
1 Jul 2010, 23:16 pm
a lot of
people
tried
to make this
something
else
but this
was
about
chilli
being
a political pawn
or not
the answer is
yes
he is
1 Jul 2010, 23:16 pm
yeah, but i dont think its PdV to blame, he is the national coach and must pick who he wants, but its in the interests of SA rugby that these players find regular game time at the top level somewhere.
i dont have that much of a problem with quotas as such even tho after 16 years or so surely we can look to remove these properly, but the real problem is the lies about it and that these players are not adquately prepared.
raubenheimer and hargreaves are another two examples of players who should be nowhere near the springboks at this point in their career until theyve played at least a full season of S14 and merit their selections.
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