Pulling the strings
15 Jul 2010
Springbok assistant coaches Gary Gold and Dick Muir have had a major influence on the team’s playing philosophy, writes Gavin Rich in SA Rugby magazine.
In the movie Robin Hood, the hero plays a defining role in the battle that enables the English to beat off an intended French invasion.
The English monarch, King John, seeing the French surrender, asks who they are surrendering to. One of John’s right-hand men points at the Robin Longstride (later to become Hood) character, played by Russell Crowe, and says, ‘They are surrendering to him’.
No doubt the king is aware of the role that Robin has played in saving England, but at the same time he is jealous of his popularity. He reacts by declaring Robin an outlaw of the state.
Why are we starting off a story about the Springbok assistant coaches by retelling a Hollywood screenplay? Because there may be a little of King John in Springbok coach Peter de Villiers. His public tirade against his management team in April could only have been sparked by dissatisfaction that others were being credited with the Springboks’ success.
In the end, the coach’s threat to sack staff never amounted to anything, and the same management team that ended the last international season were working with De Villiers when the Springboks started the new one.
What De Villiers was doing, or so it emerged, was just blowing off steam, doing a bit of sabre rattling to warn his management members while at the same time sending out the message to the public that he is the boss.
To understand why there would be a need to do that you have to understand that like all of us, De Villiers is human. That means he does have an ego, and while publicly he did all the right things last year by staying in the background when the players celebrated the Tri-Nations triumph, privately it must rankle with him that he didn’t get full credit from some sections of the media and public.
That the Springbok team is run by committee should be obvious to anyone who has read John Smit’s autobiography. It should have been clear to anyone who understands the game that the Springboks did not achieve their success against the British & Irish Lions and in the Tri-Nations playing the off-the-cuff rugby that De Villiers spoke about when he first took over.
Behind the scenes a long battle was being waged in 2008 to get the Boks back to the game that won the World Cup just a year earlier. The players were part of that battle, but the assistant coaches were also facing each other across the trenches, with the different philosophies of Dick Muir and Gary Gold having an impact on the initial formulation of policy, as well as the evolution that followed.
To explain all of this, it is instructive to go back to the article I wrote on the assistant coaches for SA Rugby magazine in May 2008. At the time they were being appointed, they were clearly not being recruited as assistants who would just follow the head coach’s policy, but would be part of policy formulation.
The problem was that even back then they knew they had conflicting views on how the game should be played, though they tried hard to make it seem like a positive.
‘I know Peter’s style from his time with Western Province [he coached the Disas], and obviously I know Dick from what he has done with the Sharks, and I would say that in a subtle way we do have different philosophies,’ said Gold. ‘Neither philosophy is right or wrong, but while I believe there should be some structure, I think Peter and Dick are what you could call “heads-up coaches”. They like their players to play what’s in front of them.’
Gold went on to say that Muir probably wouldn’t disagree that it was only when John Plumtree arrived as his assistant that structure was brought to the Sharks in 2007, and it was then that the Sharks evolved into the finished article. Gold was right, Muir didn’t disagree.
‘It’s about striking the right balance between structure and letting the players make the decisions, and I think your ability to get this right depends heavily on where you are with the players in their development,’ said Muir. ‘Looking back, I think that in a manner of speaking I was trying to run with players who at the time just weren’t ready to run. I firmly believe that if you have the complete product, in other words players who are experienced and developed enough, you don’t need structure.’
That Muir statement explains a lot. Clearly when he became involved with the Springboks, he thought the players were the finished article. Let’s wind the clock back to the first Springbok training camp under the De Villiers regime in Stellenbosch in late May 2008.
The Sharks had made the Super 14 semi-finals, so they weren’t part of the Bok squad at first muster. Muir wasn’t part of the management that first addressed the players at the Lord Charles Hotel in Somerset West.
Perhaps it explains why when the Boks went into their first training sessions, structure was not just a small feature of what they were doing – it was massive.
I watched one of those sessions with Brendan Venter, who was the Stormers defence coach at the time and is now in charge of Saracens. Venter was open mouthed at what he was seeing, and exclaimed that the structured session he was watching was the antithesis of the heads-up approach that De Villiers had been preaching in the media.
Venter was even more confounded when he heard some of the regular Stormers codes being called out, and saw the Springboks running Stormers drills and moves. Stormers coach Rassie Erasmus was also watching from the stands at the Danie Craven Stadium.
Understandably, Gold became unpopular with Erasmus for a while, and he was also in hot water with De Villiers when I wrote in the Weekend Argus that the Springboks were employing Stormers strategy. I know this because Venter, a good friend of Gold’s, told me as much.
But Venter wasn’t the only person I chatted to during that Stellenbosch camp. The players were more talkative in those early days about the De Villiers reign, and one of them told me towards the end of the camp that everything had been well on track and the squad had been heading towards a structured approach before Muir arrived and, in his words, ‘messed it up’.
The Boks continued with what they started, however, when they played the first game under De Villiers against Wales in Bloemfontein. For the first 50 minutes it was text-book traditional Bok rugby, with Butch James playing one of his better games of that year. The Boks won comfortably.
Unfortunately, though, they scored a couple of long-range tries once the Welsh were forced into a massive catch-up game in the second half, and this must have duped De Villiers into leaning back in the direction of the Muir heads-up approach. We media probably didn’t help when, in praising the Boks the next day, we noted that little had changed in overall strategy since the World Cup.
It was heads-up rugby that the Boks played in the early part of the Loftus game, only the heads were clearly missing – it looked like chicken-without-heads rugby. The Boks won in the end, but they nearly ran themselves out on their feet, and the Welsh were allowed to be far more competitive than they had been in Bloemfontein.
This pattern of doing well with structure one week and then forsaking it with near disastrous results was to continue for much of the season. For instance, the overly frenetic approach of Wellington was followed by a more controlled and structured approach in Dunedin, and the Boks scored a historic victory.
But instead of going to Australia retaining the same approach, the Boks telegraphed an intention to become more attacking by dropping Percy Montgomery. The Boks lost in Perth, and they lost 19-0 to the All Blacks at Newlands playing rugby that was a long way from the tried and trusted Bok template.
And so to Durban, and the match against the Wallabies, where the chasm in the camp in terms of the intended approach was made obvious to the media by the massive differences in the utterances of the players, the two assistants and the head coach.
At the media conferences during the week, Jean de Villiers spoke about the need to play from the right positions on the field and to kick when on the wrong side of halfway, and Juan Smith spoke about the virtues of structure. So did Gold. But when Muir spoke he was clearly speaking heads-up rugby again, and he and De Villiers seemed convinced there had not been any error with the strategy in the Newlands disaster.
Behind the scenes a meeting had taken place, at the behest of the assistant coaches, between players and management at which a new way forward was formulated. Under pressure, De Villiers was forced to let the players have their way – but judging from his and Muir’s statements, they didn’t know what that way was.
The return to structure didn’t bear immediate dividends in Durban because some 50-50 calls went against the Boks early on. When they fell behind they lost composure, and it was clear not all the players were on the same page. Neither were the coaches, for The Mercury reported afterwards that two different strategies were suggested to skipper Victor Matfield by the respective assistant coaches at half-time.
History shows that a return to direct rugby saw the Boks score a massive win over the Wallabies in Johannesburg in the final Test of that Tri-Nations, and but for a slight wobble in Edinburgh, the template was retained for the end-of-year tour and into 2009.
Of the two assistants, Gold played the more important role in the success of the new player-driven culture because his understanding of the need for a structured approach led him to act as an interface between the players and the other coaches.
Percy Montgomery, when he was with the Boks last year, also played a massive role in preaching structure, and in the Tri-Nations he played a bigger role than merely performing the duties of a kicking coach.
The reality is that strategy within the Springbok set-up has never really been driven by De Villiers – there have been occasions, such as in the beginning in Stellenbosch, when Gold was clearly allowed to have influence. There were other times when Muir had more influence, usually coinciding with a heads-up playing style, and of course, over the past 18 months the players have been steering the ship.
But the senior players cannot be fall guys because they are seen as indispensible. The assistants may be more expendable to De Villiers, which explains why it was management who were in the line of fire when he thrust out his chest and proclaimed ‘I am the boss!’ That was what De Villiers’ media outburst was about.
In order to do so, he had to find a suitable fall guy, and his fellow management were easy targets.
By Gavin Rich
– This article first appeared in the July issue of SA Rugby magazine
218 Comments
15 Jul 2010, 10:29 am
for farks sake…
gavin rich isn’t scraping the bottom of the barrel here… he’s tipping the barrel over and scratching for the goggas that sneak around in the dark underneath it…
so if **** is so influencial… how come he couldn’t influence his own team in the S14???
15 Jul 2010, 10:31 am
@ufo(ufo)-1:
okay…
so if Richard Muir is so influencial… how come he couldn’t influence his own team in the S14???
so now PDivvie is jealous of Richard Muir and Gareth Gold…
get the f.uck outta here Gavin Rich… what a poor f.ucking excuse of an article..
15 Jul 2010, 10:35 am
here we go again
fark me
15 Jul 2010, 10:37 am
Is this one of those ‘open secrets’?
15 Jul 2010, 10:39 am
@Papoose(papaown)-3:
yeah… groundhog day…
15 Jul 2010, 10:40 am
@ufo(ufo)-5: Good movie that…
15 Jul 2010, 10:41 am
very pathetic article and it wont do the boks cause any good when such dribble is written
my interest is in the boks and nothing else
poor gavin
very poor
15 Jul 2010, 10:42 am
@ufo(ufo)-5:
But …….. is “Robin Hood” a good movie!!
Or am I thinking of “Men in Tights”
15 Jul 2010, 10:43 am
One loss and this ****. Get a life Mrs Rich …think it’s a bit rich of you even going back as far as 2008…reminds me of a song that say “how low can you go”.
15 Jul 2010, 10:44 am
@Papoose(papaown)-7:
Isn’t it Simon?
15 Jul 2010, 10:44 am
this is reminiscent of the british journo who tried to sabotage our world cup by sneaking tht pom into the change room
the bladdy agent was found guilty and is not allowed back in the country
why are some in the media intent on bringin us down. i mean this article..what is the purpose of it?
15 Jul 2010, 10:44 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-8:
knowing you, you’re “thinking of men in tights…” (your words)
15 Jul 2010, 10:45 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-8: Maybe PdV, D ic kie & Gold should wear green tights on Saturday.
15 Jul 2010, 10:48 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-10: @ the bottom of the article it says
“By Gavin Rich”
i know, it was tough for me to read the WHOLE article as well
15 Jul 2010, 10:48 am
@Papoose(papaown)-11:
The purpose is to say Div is responsible for everything and Friar Tuck and Maid Marion are innocent of all kuk play by the Boks.
Nou ja!
15 Jul 2010, 10:50 am
I like this article. It makes a lot of sense to me.
15 Jul 2010, 10:50 am
@Papoose(papaown)-14:
15 Jul 2010, 10:50 am
He speaks the truth! The Boks were very reminiscent of the Lions last Saturday, but as far as playing philosophy is concerned, de Villiers and Muir share the same screwed up vision.
15 Jul 2010, 10:52 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-16:
Ten minste het jy die krag om die hele ding te lees
15 Jul 2010, 10:52 am
actually Gav, his outburst was directed towards the medical staff.
15 Jul 2010, 10:54 am
Pathetic. The article promises to say much but ends up crashing and burning in speculation and conjecture. Whatever.
15 Jul 2010, 10:57 am
Good piece Simon!
There are still three questions which I feel need greater exploring on this issue:
(a) Who wanted to persist with the blueprint kick-chase strategy this year in the absence of FDP and Frans Steyn? Was it the players, management or both?
(b) How much influence do the senior players like John and Victor have in the final XV that plays, and in particular, about controversial selections such as Januarie?
(c) How much influence do the players have in determining logistics, eg. when to travel to NZ to play in a 3N test?
The answers to these conundrums will in turn explain a lot more about the balance of power in the Bok camp.
15 Jul 2010, 10:57 am
@Papoose(papaown)-11:
it’s one for thing for poms etc to always try and tear us down… but it gives me the ghrills when south africans do it… for no more reason than to drive agendas and has nothing to do with news or informing the public…
all innuendo dug out of three year old notes… focusing on only one side of the ‘issue’ and ignoring everything that happened since then that conradicts Rich’s agenda…
sheesh… tabloid journalism at its unsubstantiated and biased best…
15 Jul 2010, 11:01 am
Let’s face it. Muir is a clown. His philosophies have been disproven time and again.
Even the Lions had to bring in John Mitchell to try and undo the “structureless” damage he has done in his short stint there.
In short, Muir’s coaching philosophy is fine, as long as you don’t mind not ever winning. Like the poor Lions in this year’s S14.
15 Jul 2010, 11:01 am
Actually I think this article lays a lot of blame at muir’s door.
Time for fleckie.
15 Jul 2010, 11:03 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-17: anything positive we can comment on dawn
nt this depressing article
15 Jul 2010, 11:03 am
Am I right in assuming Gold’s personal record is the weakest of the 3 coaches discussed? I think I am. So much so that we’ve had to actually call upon a new coach to sort our scrumming issues out because our very own “forwards” coach couldn’t manage the job? Where has he managed the job though? Where has he ever excelled in fact?
It’s strange because many of the senior players have been open about how they’ve never been happier playing under PDV.
Unfortunately there are 2 writers on this site that are using the Keo platform to further there own agendas, and when you consider that there are friendships that exist between these writers and Springbok management you would be an utter fool to expect a truly objective assessment of the situation.
15 Jul 2010, 11:05 am
@gunther(gunther)-25:
or Pieter Rossouw
15 Jul 2010, 11:05 am
Gavin Rich is just a pathetic excuse for a journalist. In one article its the players who are running in the team. in another it’s all down to **** Muir and Gary Gold. Now Percy is “playing a big part in the team’s success” and next it will be Os Du Randt. Before long he’ll be writing an article to praise the team physio’s for getting Smit and Matfield through to the World Cup, and then it will be the team psychologist, and finally he’ll be down to the baggage master (they can’t play in the birthday suits after all).
He’ll praise anyone but Div…pathetic!
15 Jul 2010, 11:06 am
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-27:
That is the ultimate tragedy of this whole situation.
When you have to resort to relying on Gold as the voice of reason among the three stooges, then you know you’re in trouble.
I still don’t understand why they couldn’t just have appointed Heyneke Meyer and thereby avoided all of these issues.
15 Jul 2010, 11:07 am
Why praise someone who can’t do their job?
15 Jul 2010, 11:08 am
@gunther(gunther)-25: this article started off in trying to ridicule Piet Snor
that is my bone of contention
yes i currently unhappy with all 3, especially Richard”the lionheart” Muir and Gary “No Medal” Gold
but this continuing question of whose in charge has got to stop
15 Jul 2010, 11:08 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-30:
Because this is South Africa, where rational thought is clubbed to death. They thought a quota could just step in a keep the engine running, well, it hasn’t happened that way.
15 Jul 2010, 11:10 am
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-27: i just dont get it
the players continually state tht yet these writers portray like they have the real inside information…WTC
15 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
“No doubt the king is aware of the role that Robin has played in saving England, but at the same time he is jealous of his popularity. He reacts by declaring Robin an outlaw of the state.
Why are we starting off a story about the Springbok assistant coaches by retelling a Hollywood screenplay? Because there may be a little of King John in Springbok coach Peter de Villiers.
His public tirade against his management team in April could only have been sparked by dissatisfaction that others were being credited with the Springboks’ success.”
only in ‘certain’ sections of the public… lead by ‘certain’ sections of the media…
if Richard and Gary were so offended by the ‘public tirade’ why the fark didn’t they resign and get other jobs…? instead of crawling back like subservient wimps… that says all I need to know about who pulls the strings and wears the pants in that relationship…
and it ain’t Richard or Gary
15 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
Muir is a plonker but really what difference to our game plan when white was around besides a fetcher
Really like we just kick the ball away all the time and rely on intercepts and mistakes and line out domination?
15 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
@Papoose(papaown)-32:
Especially Muir and Gold? If de Villiers is definitely in charge., then you should be especially peeved at him, because then the regression of the Boks over the last 2 and a half years is squarely down to him, that is unlless Muir and Gold have been doing as Gavin believes, then and only then can you blame them most. But even then, de Villiers would have to be ridiculed for being such a weak and incompetent coach that he relys on to imbeciles to do his job. Either way you look at it, Div is at fault.
15 Jul 2010, 11:14 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-36:
Under Jake we had a completely different system at the breakdown, one that we need to go back to now that fetchers are no longer the force they used to be. Also, our defence was the best ever, and our counter attacking was the most feared in the world. ALL aspects of our game have deteriorated under de Villiers. There is a big difference between the two. 2007 Boks would beat de Villiers side 10/10 times.
15 Jul 2010, 11:14 am
@willievz(willievz)-22: Good questions!
Further on a comment you made a while ago regarding FdP influence on MS.
Would you agree that with Ricky on nine AND WO on 12, Morne doesn’t have anybody to help him, and that – given FdP is not there, that JdV should keep the 12 position ion order to assist MS with attack and vision, and assist JF with defensive management?
15 Jul 2010, 11:16 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-33:
that ‘quota’ not only kept the engine running but fitted some better parts, fine tuned it and has a better win-loss record than the previous non-quota driver…
15 Jul 2010, 11:16 am
“only in ‘certain’ sections of the public… lead by ‘certain’ sections of the media…”
You mean the one with two eyes and an active brain? Yes I agree. The biased ones are just in denial, like cult members.
15 Jul 2010, 11:18 am
so gary gold is the “inteface”, the middle man, the front, for coaches john smit, matfield & du preez?
I’m so happy to be a Bok supporter because now i ca finally tell all our kiwi bloggers that their coaches got outsmarted and walloped by a bunch of senior players, even robbie deans got snotklapped!
this weekend in wellington it’s graham henry, wayne smith VS john smit, viic matfield & du preez (via twitter) – brng it on
15 Jul 2010, 11:19 am
UFO
Post world cup coaching staff
Coetzee
Proudfoot
Fleckie
15 Jul 2010, 11:20 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-41:
to be frank…
in the bigotted, racist sections of the public and media who, like you, will never accept that a coloured or black man can do anything, let alone play or coach rugby, better than a white man…
you asked what i meant…
that clear enough for you…?
15 Jul 2010, 11:21 am
@gunther(gunther)-43:
bittersweet… but yes…!
15 Jul 2010, 11:21 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-33:
Go back and read what you’ve written in this post.
10 times.
And you wonder why I get bevok with you.
15 Jul 2010, 11:22 am
The problem here is that we are 1 year out from the WC and there is no clear direction of a game plan the can continue to work. The kick and chase game is not sustainable and relies on one or two players being available. Now these guys are gone and there is no strategy on adopting better balanced methods of putting points on the board. The kick and chase should just be an option in a game plan and not the entire game plan. This weekend I would rather put the ball out and try and win it back from lineout. If you don’t get it back make sure you put tons of pressure on them in their own half. Also, when we get the ball in hand in their half, don’t ever kick. Get the ball out to the wings. Don’t try drop goals, which only work in 30% of cases and give away possession in their half. Make sure we get lots of players to the breakdown really quickly. Make sure each player understands that if he is not committed to tackling, defending and clearing out the ruck, fighting for the ball and getting stuck in (Mr. Spies)he will leave the field immediately and be on the first plane home. We are playing the All Blacks, not a make shift S14 team. The only way to win is to put everything you have on the line.
15 Jul 2010, 11:23 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-33: You’re a plank…”the quota” has not only kept the engine running, he’s shifted the car from 4th to 5th gear.
Look at the facts and not at the colour of the man’s skin.
15 Jul 2010, 11:23 am
@ufo(ufo)-40:
Lets have a look at those better parts…
Conradie, Bobo, Britz, Watson, Jantjes, Adi, Mujati, Grant, Januarie, Chili, de Jongh, Rose, Newman, Johnson, Reubenheimer (sp?), Hargreaves, Viljoen, Maku, Odwa, Bosman, Bekker, Morne, Brussow, Beast, Nokwe, Kirchner, Jantjes
Of all of those, only Morne, Brussow and Beast are any good at test level. Of those three only Beast was willingly selected. Plumtree played a part in Brussows selection, and de Villiers was under pressure to select Morne. He never wanted him, and wouldn’t acknowledge his achievements after last years TNs.
So you are wrong. There.
Fine tuned the Boks? Our defence has been worse throughout his tenure, our attack worse, our set-pieces are deteriorating. Brussow added the presence we needed at the breakdown last year and that changed our fortunes from 08, but now the coaching staf are exposed, and clearly have no idea how to play New Zealand under the new laws. So you are wrong on all counts. Jeez, you made this so easy.
15 Jul 2010, 11:24 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-16: it does to myself too…no open secrets, it is all there for everyone to see that gary gold is gavin rich’s ‘impeccable source’ and if de villiers in his sabre rattling tirade removed him, there senior players would’ve revolted (because their ‘interface’ would’ve been removed), hence nothing came of pdv’s threats of firing gold.
15 Jul 2010, 11:26 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-37: Idiot…what Springbok team have you been watching for the last two and half years? If that’s regression, let’s hope they keep reversing all the way to the top.
15 Jul 2010, 11:28 am
I am basing him on his performances. Everyone in the know knew that last years limited tactics were done to mask flaws in the Boks game, it worked in the short term, but everyone wityh the slightest savvy warned that it could never last for long. All you de Villiers groupies who refuse to see any wrong in him were emphatically proven wrong on the EOYT abd now the TNs. But no matter what happens you’ll only ever see de Villiers as a victom… but not the victom of his own ineptitude.
15 Jul 2010, 11:29 am
I like the opening of this article.
Much like the movie the plot of this article is a bit weak and it certainly falls into the category of science fiction unlike the true events that took place in history of the time (much like what is happening now and the topic in question being Bok rugby and PDV).
It (story about the Boks and PDV) also has a strangely familiar feeling to Robin Hood in which the plot of the story or details have changed over years of story-telling each time trying a new angle to make the same point (but still not really nailing it down) relying more on conjecture than fact.
Reminds me of the treintjie game we used to play in pre-school.
15 Jul 2010, 11:31 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-52:
Ah sounds like all those guys that said the PDV groupies will be proved wrong in the B&I Lions series where they will not win a match, in the 3N where they will not win a match, how they will never beat Aus or NZ away, how they will get hammered against Wales this year…
The PDV prophets of doom cannot wait for one test loss to remind everyone again how this is the end of Bok rugby.
Must be ******* excrutiating for you guys since there are not that many losses.
15 Jul 2010, 11:31 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-49: Did you sent Rich your full scale detailed analysit of PdV? He still does not believe that PdV is running that WC winning team into the ground. He blieves that it is Gold together with the senior players that is responsible for the deterioration in the quality of SA’s play. I implore you to please send him your full scale detailed anlysis ASAP.
15 Jul 2010, 11:32 am
Gary Gold you bloody agent…
15 Jul 2010, 11:33 am
@John1976(John1976)-55:
We still did not get that analysis?
Ag **** why do I waste my time on this thread then.
I am off.
15 Jul 2010, 11:33 am
@Faust(Faust)-39: Morning Faust, hope all is well on your side.
Eish, that is a tough one. There are so many variables at play.
I guess the one thing we know for sure is that FDP left a massive hole in our team. However, his absence is also a blessing in disguise as it forces the Bok management to think wider than the parameters that it is used to. We have to be prepared for a FDP-less WC in 2011, like we need to be prepared for a Matfield-less WC too for instance.
Morne is obviously more familiar with Olivier on his outside, and with the absence of a familiar pass on his inside, perhaps picking Olivier ahead of JDV makes a lot of sense.
Personally I prefer JDV at 12, but I don’t think his presence there would have made a big difference on Saturday. Our defensive problems were not of a man-on-man problem, but rather poor organisation around the rucks and the allocation of inappropriate numbers at specific collision points. We allowed them far too quick ruck ball on their offense.
It is tough to signal out specific individuals here, but our loose trio and front row needed to be a lot more industrious as a unit.
Another thing I’ve noticed from the June internationals that the ABs also picked up is that we are particularly vulnerable on the blindside as the phase play progress.
15 Jul 2010, 11:34 am
What I find unbelievable is that ALL our victories in 2008 are attributed to this mysterious “structure”. I certainly remember the 19-0 loss in CPT. The fact is we played a structured kicking game, but our trio of F Steyn, FDP and Percy were all extremely poor. Missing touch, kicking over the deadball line and missing goal kicks. It was all there. Matfield also got on Goddard’s wrong side and we were blown off park. We certainly played with less structure in the massive Ellis Park and Twickenham victories later that year.
Gavin Rich has always had it against PDV. It took just one loss (Wellington) for him to proclaim publicly that PDV was out of his depth, and that the players were running the show. D o o s!
15 Jul 2010, 11:34 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-49: Most of those players were selected by Jake White to begin with.
Our defense was brilliant last year and for most of the season so far. We had a bad day at the office this past Saturday because we adopted a drift defense pattern – I will put my head on a block that this is Muir’s influence.
15 Jul 2010, 11:35 am
Whatever, but all will be revealed, the problem with living in a dream world is that you have to wake-up one day. And when it does you all will be seeing things as they really are.
15 Jul 2010, 11:37 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-61:
I already see you for what you really are.
15 Jul 2010, 11:37 am
@King Shaka(zulu shark)-59:
Actually we only played a structured game twice. In the second and last test. In the 19-0 loss the Boks were running it like headless chickens. Against England we played a highly structured counter attacking game, so you are again wrong.
15 Jul 2010, 11:38 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-62:
And I see you for what you really are too. A person who will pull the race card and defend someone because of their skin colour can only be one thing, as is so often the case with these people.
15 Jul 2010, 11:39 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-61:
All will be revealed?
Are you doing a revision on your detailed analysis?
I have seen this bullshit played out before since 2005 when Jake White was the cancer in SA Rugby…
Since then I have seen many guys come and go.
Hopefully you will have the persistance of Skopskiet.
15 Jul 2010, 11:39 am
Gary Gold, made a light five of the Stormers tight five…say no more…
15 Jul 2010, 11:40 am
you gotta love this, ‘pulling the strings’ robin hood and his bow & arrow, the senior players being puppeteers, nice one gavin.
15 Jul 2010, 11:40 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-64:
Says the guy who refers to fellow South Africans as ‘these people’
******* rich china.
15 Jul 2010, 11:40 am
And yet Gary Gold was USELESS when he coached at WP.
Pull the other one Gavin!!
15 Jul 2010, 11:40 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-67:
Well at least he makes bullshit more entertaining these days!
15 Jul 2010, 11:42 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-68:
I refer to racists as “these people”. I think ‘m being very generous in my description of race card fanatics.
15 Jul 2010, 11:42 am
ahhh
the fringe right wing network has arrived
15 Jul 2010, 11:43 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-67: i know
i almost fell off my chair when i read it
the hollywood analogy’s were too much
15 Jul 2010, 11:43 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-49:
the previous White coach would have never picked Brussow (new part) and has said so on national TV… PdV let Frans settle at fullback (fine tuned) and he won the 3N in New Zealnd for us…
so no… i am not wrong… but you can spin your top however you like… cherry pick whatever facts suit your agenda…
but as they say… look at the scoreboard… ALL the facts add up to a win-loss record…
where does PdV stack up in the list of win-loss records with all the previous coaches…
that is what counts and where you argument fails…
15 Jul 2010, 11:44 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-65:
I’ll be here alright. And referring to the Bok coach who resurrected Bok rugby a cancer? 2005 being a very succesful year too. But you’ll laud a coach who has regressed what Jake left behind? It doesn’t make any sense.
15 Jul 2010, 11:44 am
@wpw(wpw)-69: He can’t multitask…
15 Jul 2010, 11:46 am
Keyword: STRUCTURE.
15 Jul 2010, 11:46 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-63: Your recollection of the Newlands test is inaccurate. King Sharks has rightly pointed out that the leather was kick off the ball that day by SA. The kicking out hand by FdP, Butch and Percy were atrocious and they never attempted to run the ball from within their own half. Either you did not watch the match or you are trying to mislead the bloggers deliberately.
15 Jul 2010, 11:47 am
Gavin Rich is becoming the Bill O’Reilly of Keo.co.za and SA Rugby mag.
15 Jul 2010, 11:48 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-63:
Had Ricky not produced that piece of magic in Dunedin then the likes of you would’ve blamed “lack of structure” for the loss.
FFS at Ellis Park we hardly played percentage rugby. We ran it at will and our ball runners were causing havoc. We used the EXACT gameplan we’d used in Durban the week before. It’s just that our passes stuck and we hardly made any mistakes on attack.
15 Jul 2010, 11:49 am
@King Shaka(zulu shark)-59: don’t forget butch at flyhalf, he fcuked up royally, his line kicking was sh*t. Look you can play structure and lose 49-0, you can play structure and NEVER win a game in new zealand, you can play structure and come last in the tri-nations for 3 years running, structure is no guarantee for success.
15 Jul 2010, 11:50 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-71:
so you’re a “these people”…???
15 Jul 2010, 11:50 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-75:
Perhaps you did not read properly.
I saw this bullshit play out before, where Jake was called a cancer in SA Rugby same as PDV is now…
And please, please be so kind as to indicate exactly how this team has ‘regressed’ under PDV.
Please!
Use any measurable means and tool at your disposal to illustrate this.
I will be absolutely fascinated.
15 Jul 2010, 11:51 am
href=”#comment-1657877″>ufo(ufo)-74:
Frans is our best 12, LOL. Jake never needed a fetcher, his approach of rucking blunted the much vaunted prowess of Australia and New Zealand. And plus, 2009 were under different rules.
What’s interesting to note is that I can discuss aspects of the game, selections, tactics, I can quote these coaches on their thinking and beliefs, but all I get in response is,
“Your racist!”
“Look at the scoreboard”
“de Villiers is the Zeus of rugby, end of discussion”
Nothing tangible, nothing in depth, just little sissy girl rants or garbled, incorrect information. Yet I am the one is is wrong? LMAO. It doesn’t say much for these fools.
15 Jul 2010, 11:52 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-54: LOL
tht really made me laugh
15 Jul 2010, 11:52 am
Ag **** what am I saying.
I am asking this of a guy who has apparently composed a detailed analysis (only he has ever seen) on how kak PDV is.
I am out of here.
15 Jul 2010, 11:53 am
@King Shaka(zulu shark)-80:
Actually I said we were quite lucky to win that test. We were never really going to win it until Januarie had that burst and scored. It was a great piece of individual brilliance, but masked defficiencies in our game, those were my words,.
15 Jul 2010, 11:53 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-83: It is all in his “full scale detailed analysis”. It is on the Supersport website in 3000 posts.
15 Jul 2010, 11:53 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-75: Another one who is blinded by the legacy of a WC win against mediocre opposition.
On a serious note, who are all these buggers who voted for Januarie to start on Saturday. I know Dawn is one, but can there be so many NZ supporters who visit this site?
15 Jul 2010, 11:56 am
@John1976(John1976)-78:
He’s obviously talking nonsense. FDP kicked several balls over our deadball. Percy was playing his 100th and was overawed by the occasion. The only example of “headless chicken” rugby was late in 2nd half when we were trailing. This culminated in that JDV/Steyn quick throw-in which was intercepted for the last try.
15 Jul 2010, 11:56 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-49: You sad, sad loser. So when a good player gets selected its because it was forced on the coach, and when a player isn’t quite up to Test level, that’s the coaches pick? What a bufoon!
The defence was outstanding last year, and we dominated the lineouts, especially against New Zealand – why don’t you rather keep quiet and save yourself the humiliation.
Here are some facts for your “full scale analysis”. Boks under Div: played 30, won 21, 70% win ratio is best for any coach with 30 Tests or more post-isolation, Tri-Nations champions, NZ whitewash, including first ever win at Carisbrooke, Lions series winners, 2008 first Bok side to go unbeaten on end of year tour in 10 years.
Those are the FACTS…do you have any?
15 Jul 2010, 11:57 am
sharks team for saturday
15. Louis Ludik
14. JP Pietersen
13. Stefan Terblanche (Capt)
12. Patrick Lambie
11. Lwazi Mvovo
10. Steve Meyer
9. Charl McLeod
8. Keegan Daniel
7. Michael Rhodes
6. Jacques Botes
5. Alistair Hargreaves
4. Steven Sykes
3. Wiehahn Herbst
2. Craig Burden
1. Patric Cilliers
Replacements
16. Kyle Cooper
17. Eugene van Staden
18. Ross Skeate
19. Skholiwe Ndlovu
20. Rory Kockott
21. Monty Dumond
22. Andries Strauss
15 Jul 2010, 11:57 am
@GI POT(GI POT)-89: The real question is why is so many people voting for Hougaard?
15 Jul 2010, 11:57 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-83:
Look at our leaky defence, look at our woeful attack, the counter attacking brilliance of the team is dead. All there is is Du Preez’s boot, he is gone and the whole team falls apart. Even with far less depth, we were never so reliant on a single player a we are now, Hoping that the boot of Du Preez will save us. The tactics are flawed. Take last Saturdays game, New Zealand made sure that they approached the breakdown with an organized approach, reacting to the new laws. de Villiers thinks that the old tactics of last year will still work even though his belief was proven wrong. And he intends to do the same this week. So many flaws, so many problems. But SAns are the only ones who can’t see it. There’s a reason why de Villiers is not respected by anyone in world rugby.
15 Jul 2010, 11:58 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-84: i’m nt sure most people are of the opinion that he is the Zeus of rugby, in their hearts
what ppl cant stand though is the continual undermining of some1 who despite “the majority of rugby fans ” against his pick, has produced very impressive results
why the talk of quota coach and such
no 1 referred to graham henry as such when he was given a whitewash last year
15 Jul 2010, 11:59 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-84:
I never said jake white needed a fetcher… he has two sons… but he said he wouldn’t have picked Brussow last year… but again you spin so fast you don’t stop to think…
yah whatever dude…
you’re the king of clever… the pharaoh of facts… the taj of tactics… the royal of rugby…
bottom line dude…
you’re a “these people”
15 Jul 2010, 12:01 pm
de Villiers never wanted Morne. He had every intention of playing Pienaar, then Rose. But when the wheels came off, he was under pressure to do so. Till this very day, de Villiers refuses to acknowledge Morne’s achievements. Whenm asked, he just said Pienaar is the best 10 in SA, nothing about Morne.
As for Brussow, Plumtree advised that he ne selected. But even though Brussow was succesful de Villiers tried repeatedly to get Rossouw into the position, but it never worked.
So you are wrong AGAIN.
I did credit de Villiers for Beast though. So I did give him his dues.
15 Jul 2010, 12:01 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-87: its soo disappointing when one loses and romance abt..if this had happened , if the ball had bounced more favourably
it is even more disconcerting when after winning, the winning supporters say, oh we should have lost because if this had happened, if the ball had bounced tht way
you are areal chop and not a true supporter
GET OUT YOU BLADDY AGENT
15 Jul 2010, 12:02 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-87:
Yet you say in post 63 that we played “structured” rugby in that test, and implying that to be the reason for the win. You didn’t say anything about being lucky.
15 Jul 2010, 12:03 pm
@John1976(John1976)-93: Yes, you’re right. There is a lot of provincial sentiment on this site. Pienaar should be the obvious replacement, not so?
I guess it all depends on where your sentiments lie
15 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
THE FIRST 3 paragraphs to this piece is a joke- trying to sound clever and multi dimentional… but i enjoyed the rest- nice to get an insight into backstage.
the only thing is that its the authors preception of events and imo mostly hearsay potentially- for all we know **** banged his wife while gary was giving him the reach around.
divvy is the boss boys
15 Jul 2010, 12:05 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-84:
Okay right please explain the dynamics of the ruck under the Jake White era and specifically how he approached it and what role it played in his overall game strategy.
I would be specifically interested in that analysis given the theories surrounding the use of bigger loose forwards because of the perceived advantage it gives you considering the X (territorial), Y (positional) and Z (ball to ground) axis theories Jake implemented and how that compares with general deck play or scavenger play more fancied by Australian teams.
Of course don’t leave out how this influences the phase play in different team strategies and how overall selections has to be considered to compliment this strategy.
Do that for me and perhaps I might take you more seriously because everything I have read from you so far seems to be sucked out of your ***, sorry.
15 Jul 2010, 12:05 pm
****= Deek Muir
15 Jul 2010, 12:05 pm
@ufo(ufo)-96:
Not at all, I stick to the facts. I keep it about the rugby and what actually is going on. You guys are the ones who consistently drag the debate into race and/or little tantrums.
15 Jul 2010, 12:06 pm
As I recall the all blacks scored their try when jdv threw a speculative pass under our posts in that Newlands game.
And didn’t Percy miss 4 kicks at goal?
15 Jul 2010, 12:07 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-94: Percy Montgomery was the master of the counter attack under JW? Do not confuse playing on the other team’s mistakes as counter attacking. JW’s team would not recognize a counter attack if it bit them in the arse.
15 Jul 2010, 12:09 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-89: ON AN EVEN MORE SERIOUS NOTE
how can there be soo many Bulls lovers on this website who would vote for a scrummie who hasnt played in tht position for over a year, ova Pienaar
exactly why i dont follow polls
15 Jul 2010, 12:09 pm
I will address your leaky defense, no structure theory (based on your perceptions of our brilliant counter attacking offensive under White) following your ruck analysis.
One thing at a time.
15 Jul 2010, 12:09 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-104:
you brought race into it calling PdV a quota coach…
unless you meant that each team has quota of one coach, two assistants, one physio etc…
it you did i apologise…
otherwise… you’re the “these people”.
as for tantrums… sheesh dude… go and re-read your stuff…
15 Jul 2010, 12:12 pm
@ufo(ufo)-109: with u on this one- he’s not quite shaun but in the pack of guys who like to throw it around willy nilly.
15 Jul 2010, 12:15 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-102: LOL
OHHHH
and can we say K.O?
15 Jul 2010, 12:15 pm
@mainland(mainland)-110:
but says it’s everyone else throwing it around…
15 Jul 2010, 12:29 pm
see this thread has died out…gone to where it belongs
15 Jul 2010, 12:29 pm
Gavin doesn’t like Peter, it’s no secret, so i take everything that comes from this half-decent rugby journo with a pinch of salt unfortunately.
15 Jul 2010, 12:30 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-84: you can fool some but not everyone…
“Jake never needed a fetcher, his approach of rucking blunted the much vaunted prowess of Australia and New Zealand. And plus, 2009 were under different rules. ” – alucard
Jake’s joker 6, 7 and 8 cards
Coach Jake White’s refusal to acknowledge the relevance of a specialist open-side flanker in the northern hemisphere has proved disastrous for the Springboks.
Match statistics from the defeats against Ireland and England are alarmingly weighted in the favour of the hosts and shows up the folly of White’s insistence that an open-sider is not a necessity in test rugby.
In the two tests the Boks battled for ball to such an extent that Ireland and England made 321 passes to South Africa’s 151. The Boks made almost double the amount of tackles, 187 to 100, while the ruck and pass domination was a staggering 120 to 46 to the home teams.
The most damning statistic that shows up the lack of impact White’s loose-trio has had in the two test matches is that the Boks won 18 turnovers to the 17 of Ireland and England’s. It is damning because the Boks, by virtue of Ireland and England’s dominance of the ball, had nearly three times the breakdowns to contest. Ireland and England took the ball into the contest 138 times and the Boks won it back on 18 occasions. The Boks were the attackers at just 63 rucks and they lost it 17 times.
I spoke to several prominent coaches in South Africa and analysts and asked them for their interpretation of the breakdown statistics. All of them expressed a similar view that the Boks were unable to provide continuity because no openside flanker had been selected.
What compounded the situation was the absence of a mobile hooker.
The Boks were making double the amount of tackles because there was no one to turn over the opposition ball. Both Ireland and England were comfortable in retaining possession and recycling this possession. England made a mess of the possession, but alarmingly still comfortably took it through 10 and 20 phases on occasions. Ireland did the same, but the class of their back division and cohesion between the loose-forwards and halfbacks meant they easily broke down the Bok defence with 18 linebreaks.
White on this tour has opted for three loose-forwards capable of providing lineout options, but his search for a potent lineout has been at the expense of speed and accuracy in the support play. When the Boks did make a linebreak there was rarely one of the loose-forwards running on the inside shoulder of the linebreaker.
Against England it was at its worst when Akona Ndungane and Francois Steyn were both put into space and confronted with a one on one with Josh Lewsey. A traditional open-sider’s angle of run would have been on the inside shoulder of the player with ball in hand. It didn’t happen for the Boks because the national coach, unlike every other coach in the country (or for that matter the world), doesn’t see the value of picking one of his loose-forwards to do that function.
England’s public is not being fooled by the mediocrity of performance in winning for the first time in eight tests and the South African public should also not be fooled that the Bok defeat was more heroic than it was horrid.
With the right selections and strategy England should have been dismantled and Andy Robinson should be looking for a new job today. The Boks should also have won for the first time in 10 years.
Ireland, France, New Zealand and Argentina have all won at Twickenham in the last two years. The Boks have not.
White got his selection balance wrong, just like he did in Dublin and just like he did in 2004 against Ireland and England. Even in 2004, Schalk Burger was not a decisive factor in the northern hemisphere because he is not a natural open-sider.
Burger, at his peak, is a freak who is capable in this role in southern hemisphere conditions. Against Ireland and England in 2004 he looked lost and frustrated playing against specialist open-siders.
You would have thought the lessons would have been learned two years ago. They haven’t because White did not believe there was a lesson taught. The coach stubbornly believes in picking tall loose-forwards, but all that the last two tests have shown is that the only thing we can learn from this history is that White has learned nothing.
The additional lineout options have won the Boks four against the throw on this tour and they’ve also lost four against the throw. They’ve scored a try from one against the throw and they’ve also conceded a try from one against the throw.
White continues to believe his philosophy is right and every critic and South African coach who thinks otherwise is wrong.
What White can’t argue with is a record that reads played 12 overseas against New Zealand, Australia, England, France and Ireland and lost 11.
In the Northern Hemisphere White has played Ireland twice, England twice and France once and every time he has done the same thing and got the same result – a defeat.
Now he has introduced Kabamba Floors into the mix – a month after saying the player simply did not fit into the Boks’ playing style? It makes no sense, unless there is an acknowledgement that if Floors plays, he does so as an open-sider.
It is fantastic that Floors has been called up, but it does make a mockery of White’s mantra that he could not fly Luke Watson to New Zealand earlier this year because the player would not have enough time to learn the team playing systems.
Floors will have one training run with the team at Wasps on Tuesday morning, but White has already confirmed he will be in the match 22.
Don’t ask where the logic is in that because logic is not something you’d associate with Bok selections.
This entry was posted on Tuesday, November 21st, 2006
15 Jul 2010, 12:32 pm
damnit maar julle praat baie kak
15 Jul 2010, 12:32 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-113: exactly….peter showed his humble side when he didn’t hof the limelight after last year’s trinations triumph.
Gavin is a poephol.
15 Jul 2010, 12:37 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-117: i meant hog, but hof probably means the same thing
15 Jul 2010, 12:42 pm
@gunther(gunther)-105: yeah, but dan the man missed five. all blacks killed us that day, i was there. scoreline should have read +15 for the all blacks at least.
15 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
He, he, he
Alucard sure is taking a FACTUAL bruising today
Have to love this site
The irony of a bloke who consistently claims his very broad & sweepings opinions as fact being torn apart by actual facts
To borrow from the dictionary of Transie: “School is session”
Ding, Dong!
15 Jul 2010, 13:07 pm
Gavin Rich is Keo & Jake White’s puppet…
15 Jul 2010, 13:08 pm
@willievz(willievz)-58:
All true, and understand what you mean with having the familiar on his outside, personally I think JdV would have been better – but I don’t say this with any true zealousness.
In terms of defense, totally agree with you regarding the forwards not coming to the party, but did feel that our midfield did not help either…..many missed tackles which led to two guys hanging off one attacker later on, and I feel (maybe wonder is a better word) that if Jean was in midfield he might have had a hand in reorganising the defence better for the second and third phases…..
God, it felt like the abs were breaking our defense on every run (gaining at least 2 metres every time!
On a different note – is it just me or is SA, compared to other countries – very quickly shown out on the outsides when it comes to defense? It always looks to me like we always have at least a two man deficit on the outside, where as if we are attacking, if the ball goes to the wing, it always feels like there are at least two defenders on him….
15 Jul 2010, 13:08 pm
Relating to the article:
I think we could all see Deek and Gold’s influence last week
15 Jul 2010, 13:09 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-81: Agreed. Ball retention is key to beating the ABs. As soon you start starving them of the ball they start to panic. Look what happened last year with Brussouw. Why don’t we have a fetcher? NZ has. Fight fire with fire. Who do we take with us? Schalk fcking Burger. He couldn’t pilfer biltong out of an open packet! If you kick the ball down the ABs throats they will run it back at you very hard, time and time again. You keep the ball in hand and move it threw the phases. Keep kicking away your possession and you will have to keep defending which saps twice as much energy as attacking. The more pressure you put on the other team the more likely they are going to make mistakes.
15 Jul 2010, 13:11 pm
Muir’s influence can be seen all over the show:
Playing players out of position
Lack of match fitness
Awful defense
Getting up late on tour
Drinking binges
Nice one
15 Jul 2010, 13:21 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-125: LOL
Is it too late to get rid of Muir and Gold
@least PdV has seen the light by bringing in Os but backline wise we need to sort ourselves out
15 Jul 2010, 13:22 pm
**** Muir really is a chop and should not be let near the bok squad.
His thing of playing players all over the place and the airy fairy rugby style simply is not good enough.
15 Jul 2010, 13:26 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-115: the way u r able to dig up past articles to shut up some bloggers up is really unparalleled
very impressive
15 Jul 2010, 13:27 pm
It is clear to me again that a good player does not make a good coach by default. The embarasment of the Lions is proof enough to me that **** Muir does not understand the need of structure in the modern game. Rassie Erasmus also did not make the grade and WP/Stormers only became a factor again after adopting a more structured approach. The Bulls under Meyer and Ludeke have been successful because structures are clear and players understand their primary function. Once the opesition was beaten into submission were players free to be “creative”. Innitially the were critisized for playing boaring rugby, but 3 years down the line it has evolved into the defenition of “total rugby”. The Boks should subscribe to this devotion to structure and they will be the dominating force in world rugby for years to come.
15 Jul 2010, 13:31 pm
Alucard must be attending an AWB meeting. He’s gone very quiet all of a sudden… Not that Im complaining
15 Jul 2010, 13:31 pm
Rich i would like to say please could you take off your tinted glasses!!! you have a chip on your shoulder against De Villiers for some or other reason mayb cause he’s black or is an AA appointment and your man Heyneke didnt get the job, or whatever it is! but your utterances from no solid base is hearsay and would not be admitted to court!! you create division and provide only destructive criticism of a coach who is the boss, finished and klaar, but go ahead if you think the assistants are the boss and you will persist with this futile argument go ahead!! its not gonna change anything!! carry on constructing these garbage pieces of writing its only your reputation that will be damaged not De Villiers, he only has one more trophy to win and you can go eat your humble pie, but wait you will still attribute that not to all the coaches but just to the assistants!! sleep well
15 Jul 2010, 13:31 pm
@dr dre(dr dre)-127: its called Total Rugby
its brother is Total Football, just ask the Dutch
15 Jul 2010, 13:36 pm
@styv(styv)-131: seems like he hit a nerve with u yeah?
why dont u use paragraphs?
or lines?
15 Jul 2010, 13:48 pm
ja he just irritates me, always negative this negative that about De Villiers and the boks. He should just deal with it and provide constructive criticism, has this dude even played rugby!!?
as for the paragraphs something i will have to work on!!
15 Jul 2010, 13:58 pm
The Boks have been handicapped by 3 **** coaches and a captain that is fast becoming a liability.
PdeV is most probably the least **** of the 3, and that says allot.
Why are we playing a kick, chase and pray game in the 3N? The Bulls and Stomers have shown how rugby under these rules should be played.
15 Jul 2010, 14:00 pm
@styv(styv)-134: Don’t worry about it I think he is being constructive if you look closer.
For all I have said about Div the truth is he doesn’t have to be the best COACH in the world, he is HEAD COACH. In that department he seems to be doing okay, he has a happy squad, they seem to like him and are in good spirits.
Problem is his choice of assistants. I mean these 2 clowns could be the worst front- and back-line coaches in SA and Div gets them BOTH.
They are responsible for the 2 parts of the team, Div should be the general.
I think he has let these guys get their teeth in, and it really does look like a Muir approach (remember the Sharks). Total Rugby in that sense meant “I’d rather have a pint with the boys tonight than work out tactics so just err, play what’s in front of you”.
If I were a coach with no clue, that’s the exact advice I’d also give the players.
Div may not be bad (judgement on him is moot) but you are judged by the company you keep.
15 Jul 2010, 14:05 pm
Another thing, I think Smit is more of a liability than either junior coach, leading from the coffee machine is not captaining.
15 Jul 2010, 14:16 pm
@The Dude(RaynoG)-130: Allucard should change his nic to allu’tard. as in re-tard.
Yes i know it’s dracula spelled backwards. He should stick to comics and leave the grown up stuff to us…..
15 Jul 2010, 14:24 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-125: Same **** that was dished up at the Lions during the S14. No coincidence
15 Jul 2010, 14:27 pm
@Faust(Faust)-122: When you employ the drift defense (like the Boks do), you will have your 10 marking the opposite 12, the 12 marking the 13, etc. You will mark these players tackling with your outside shoulder.
On Saturday, the ABs used their strike runners (such as Kaino and Nonu) to attack the inside shoulders of these respective players. They therefore ran towards the original point of contact into space with the aim of dominating the last meter before contact. Attacking the inside shoulder of the man that marks you ensures that you as the offensive runner will have the momentum, not vice versa.
Because our defenders got pushed back on their inside shoulders, the player outside that defender joined the ruck with the aim to slow down the ruck ball. The result was the overlap on the drift defense you saw.
It all resulted from that first hit on the inside shoulder which left our defenders off balance. The ABs could use this strategy because of the lackluster marking of our loose trio – the opensider not covering the inside channel between the 10 and the set piece and the nr8 not covering behind the defensive marker to support the breakdown as the second player.
You would also have noticed that on several occasions, they punished us on the blindside because our wings got sucked into the breakdown too as a result of the overlap you described.
The solution to our defensive problems are not a simple silver bullet answer, but would involve making the following adjustments nonetheless:
(a) Rush-up on the first phase defense, provided their nr8 does not pick up the ball from the set-piece. You can drift thereafter and
(b) commit less numbers to the breakdown from phase 3 onwards in order to eliminate that overlap situation you described.
In reality, if you haven’t slowed down ruck ball by the third phase, you are in trouble. And if you don’t dominate the first phase defense, you are going to have a hard time in achieving that objective.
That is the beauty about phase-play momentum – even if your opposition claims to be physically stronger, you can still gain meters if their defensive line is disrupted and individual defenders off balance.
15 Jul 2010, 14:27 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-139: No it’s not. The man is known for a few things, not many of which revolve around a rugby ball.
Bit of a ‘Jack-the’lad’ rather than a bloke. Not my cup of tea but the ‘legends’ seem to love him.
15 Jul 2010, 14:29 pm
@willievz(willievz)-140: Another thing we could do is tell the 3 glory boys to come up on defence instead of going for the intercept (habana fourie JDV).
That may help our line. All 3 tried it and got caught out on Saturday.
15 Jul 2010, 14:32 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-142: Yes, on more than one occasion.
I don’t think that was merely to go for the intercept though. An outside back realising an overlap situation will instinctively rush-up quicker in an attempt to disrupt the ball carrier and trying to bring him down.
A no guts no glory situation if you wish.
15 Jul 2010, 14:33 pm
I am a goldfish! This stinks, again.
15 Jul 2010, 14:34 pm
@willievz(willievz)-143: I think you are being kind to them, but I’ll give it the benefit.
I don’t think any of the 3 is a particularly good example of ‘team’ player, unless it suits them.
They are GREAT players, but their lack of passing more than once has cost games and the intercept thing, 3 guys in a team is a bit much don’t you think?
Good luck to them but they will be nailed more times than they succeed against the ABs with that muck
15 Jul 2010, 14:36 pm
@willievz(willievz)-140: Very good summation.
To add to your analysis. Not one of our loose trio are accustomed to the drift defense on first phase at their respective franchises. It it therefore quite understandable that they would be out of place on defense.
I also think that AB’s will attack the spaces around the rucks with their fullback and blindside wings receiving the inside pass from Carter after they set up third and fourth phases – that is if we continue to wait for them on defense.
My biggest concern is that the “new” defensive system has the stench of **** Muir all over it because it is very reminiscent of the Lions’ porous defense. I hope they come to their senses and fast
15 Jul 2010, 14:42 pm
Just read the thread and I am happy that finally after all my years blogging here that discussion and debate has flourished.
There was a time where the likes of Allucard would have had a band of stupid bloggers trying the get the sensible commentary banned.
Today, we have, (for the most part), sensible bloggers, who can see a bullshit article a mile off, and read the undertone the agendas of Rich, Vrede and Keo. Above all. Bullshitters get chopped with facts.
Nicely done guys. And special thanks to Pissant, Transformation and Ufo.
15 Jul 2010, 14:47 pm
Well it has been almost 3 hours now, I suspect an answer is not forthcoming.
Outta here till later.
15 Jul 2010, 14:49 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-148: Hahahahahaha. I think he has run off.
I don’t think you were ever going to get an answer to your questions. That would have required independant analysis without the blatant Pdv hatred. Allucard, is incapable of that. Clearly.
15 Jul 2010, 14:51 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-147:
AMEN!!
15 Jul 2010, 14:51 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-148: There is no answer and we all knew that all along, but i commend you for persisting…
15 Jul 2010, 14:52 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-148:
What makes you think he has an answer??
Didn’t he ignore you when you asked him for his ‘detailed analysis’
15 Jul 2010, 14:55 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-151: @wpw(wpw)-152:
We can only afford guys a fair chance to explain their claims, but I guess there is no point in this instance. Pity.
Will have to sift through 3000 posts on SuperSport now to find it…
15 Jul 2010, 14:56 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-149:
Wanted to include you in my previous post but the system did not allow me too.
Anycase, out for now.
15 Jul 2010, 14:57 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-148: you should no better.
When confronted with facts or challenged he is quick to run away.
You are wasting you time taking him seriously. I tak ehim a bout as seriously as I do Gavin Rich and most of the journos on this site.
15 Jul 2010, 15:05 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-153: I think it’s posted on wwwDOTmoveonDOTorg…..
15 Jul 2010, 15:13 pm
The ”journalists” on this site are blind bigots who wouldn’t know the difference between rugby and ice hockey.
They’d be of more use working for Die Son or huisgenoot.
On a serious note our 3N campaign rests on saturday’s result.
Another AB victory and its goobye
15 Jul 2010, 15:19 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-154: Thanks.
15 Jul 2010, 15:27 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-147:
hey Roossoneri…
just dropped in for an update and saw your comment…
very cool of you…
thanks
15 Jul 2010, 15:28 pm
@ufo(ufo)-159:
apologies for the double ‘o’…
15 Jul 2010, 16:00 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-128: shot charlie, oja padi
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-147: cheers Rosso
it’s all in the name of banter
15 Jul 2010, 16:20 pm
Overheard at Bok training session…
*PdV talking to players*
Muir: “Coach! Coach! Coach! Coach! Coach!
*PDV continues talking to players*
Muir: (hopping up and down) “Coach! Coach? Coach? Cooooaaach!!!
PDV; WHAAAT????
Muir: Coach I wanna run with my Lions gameplan on Satruday like we talked about!! Serious I reckon we can sink these Kiwi b*stards if we open it up more!! Defence is for p*ssies, we must go for the jugular!!!
PDV: Watse kak praat jy nou?
Muir: Coach I’m serious! You don’t have to worry anout defence if you attack for 90 minutes!! Serious! I’m telling you we can score 10 tries, I just need the chance to prove it!!
Muir: Ja but ****, you know, the Super 14…you know the swallows circle when the jackals howl…
Muir: Ja but look at thois assh*les I had to coach! They all too fat or too small….and that bliksemse Rose screwed my whole gameplan for the season…
PDV: Jirre I told you before…!
Muir: Sorry coach, but serious I was talking to Smitty and he reckons I’m right and we can score 24 tries, I know it coach, serious!
PDV: Hell ****, wat’s fout met jou oe? Jirre they look like 2 muis-p**sies!!
Muir: Sorry coach, we only left the karaoke a bit late..
PDV: How late? Jissus, stand still man!
Muir: Sorry coach, very late coach, but it’s ok, we slept in again and I had 4 Red Bulls…it’s all good coach, the players love us now! Thats the main thing!
PDV: Ja no, it’s nice, we all big chommies! Good morale and all that! The sharks were jumping but now the flowers have bloomed and all the dice have fallen into place.
Muir: So can I, coach? Please? Pleeeeeeaaase??? Smitty said it was cool if you were said yes…
PDV: Jirre **** ek weet nie man….when did you speak to him?
Muir: At the karaoke bar. After I sang “Singing in the rain”
PDV: Jou d**s! That was the f*kken bouncer you were talking to!
15 Jul 2010, 16:22 pm
@Atreides(Atreides)-162: was brendon venter there? How about rassie?
lol
15 Jul 2010, 16:27 pm
What the hell is all this jirre going on here.
15 Jul 2010, 16:30 pm
@Atreides(Atreides)-162: Very good.
15 Jul 2010, 16:37 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-163:
when boredom sets in….
15 Jul 2010, 16:38 pm
Muir and Gould are pulling each othger ‘string’
15 Jul 2010, 16:40 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-163:
and did rassie have his disco lights there…???
15 Jul 2010, 16:54 pm
I’m not a Muir fan. And if he has too much influence on our defense we are going to struggle.
PDV had a great record at U21 level (like Jake) and now at test level. I’m pretty sure he knows his rugby. Don’t think we have won a U21 WC since PDV and Jake.
Gold has no real track record of success and as is stated Muir sucked until Plumtree came around and the Sharks had a lot more Bok influence as well.
Anyway..
and ROFL
162. Atreides(Atreides) :
15 Jul 2010, 16:56 pm
I meant until the Sharks play had influence from Bok players that had come from successful bok structural setup. They must have brought those back into the Sharks setup.
15 Jul 2010, 17:00 pm
i think Os has been hanging out too much with Skopskiet!
Os speaks from experience
2010-07-15 16:04Email | Print
Os du Randt (Gallo Images)
Ken Borland
Wellington – When Springbok consultant Os du Randt speaks, it is with the gravitas of a legend of the game and the two-time World Cup winner had a message for both his team and the lawmakers ahead of Saturday’s Tri-Nations Test against the All Blacks in Wellington.
Messages are sometimes judged not so much by their content but who they come from, but Du Randt, with 80 Test caps and two World Cup winner’s medals, has impeccable pedigree.
So when he says Springbok teams can have a tendency to “fall asleep” he is speaking from experience.
“I’m involved with more than just the scrum. I’ve been away from the system for just three years, so I can tell what has changed and what has stayed the same.
“One thing that has changed is that the confidence within the team has really grown. For four years we were always trying to prove ourselves at the highest level, but now the whole world accepts that we are one of the best teams around.
“But then some aspects of our game can become a bit lax, sometimes it seems like we are just going through the motions. That’s maybe what happened last Saturday, so I had to speak hard to the boys, get their minds right and refresh the guys’ minds about stuff they already know.
“It makes no difference the number of Tests you have played, every now and then you will get a wake-up call. The big challenge for management is not allowing the team to fall into that trap of complacency. South Africans have a tendency to sometimes be asleep, it happened to us in 2006 [the infamous 49-0 thrashing in Brisbane]. Sometimes it seems we must first be rapped over the knuckles, then we want to play!” Du Randt said.
The giant loosehead said he believes the Springboks will be quick to bounce back from their flat showing last weekend in Auckland, and he will be expecting further improvements in the scrummaging.
“I felt the team looked genuinely good, there was a good vibe, heading into the Auckland Test. In retrospect, maybe we were practising at 200km/h and we might have overlooked some of the small finesse things.
“The depth in our scrum is unbelievably good, we have a whole clump of test caps on the bench. A guy like Gurthro Steenkamp, it’s unbelievable how he has restored his rugby after he was destroyed in England at the end of last year.
“I thought the scrum was good against France last month, because they have given us lots of problems in the last few years. Everyone remembers what happened against Leicester last year, but the scrums are still 50-60% from where I want them to be. With the size and power that we have, it’s common sense that our scrum should be much better. It’s just a matter of getting all the forces lined up,” Du Randt said.
The 37-year-old’s message to the lawmakers is that he would prefer to see the scrums go back to the days when the only calls the referee made before the set-piece were “crouch” and “engage”.
“It’s always a problem because each referee is an individual and will have a different speed to his calls. They are also under pressure not to have a lot of scrum re-sets, so it makes it difficult for the front rows because they have to stay tense for four, five, six seconds. It means you have to work hard on your discipline. And if you don’t get that split-second edge on your opposition then you won’t have what you need to get a right shoulder, for example.
“When I grew up, it was just ‘crouch’ and ‘engage’, and I still believe that’s best. You could stand much further away and basically just storm together.
“I accept you need to look at the safety factor, but maybe they should just use ‘crouch, touch, pause, engage’ at school. At the moment it’s like a speed limit: You don’t like it, but you just have to accept it,” Du Randt said.
15 Jul 2010, 17:01 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-167: each other’s “poepstrings”?
15 Jul 2010, 17:03 pm
So is this what’s being printed in SA rugby magazine nowadays?
Gavin Rich this is some of the most pathetic drivel i’ve ever read….piss poor.
15 Jul 2010, 17:03 pm
Have not been here in a while but what a shite article!There is so much vagueness and suggestion in behavioural patterns observed through heresay accounts.So perhaps there are differences in the Bok coaching camp on how we would approach the game strategically.And yes, perhaps a little bit of confusion sets in now and then. These headless chickens of 3 coaches have a Lions and Tri Nations title as well as a win record second to no other Bok coach in the pro era. Outgunned the magnificent Robbie Deans in Aus last year with a massive surprise running game from the 1st kick off.
I would really like to know from Gavin Rich what he considers the “perfect” coaching style/game plan needs to be. Seems we smashed McGeechan, Deans and Henry with these so called 3 stooges!!! This is enough in my books to warrant a crack at the next years World Cup for all the current coaching staff even if we win 30% – 40% of our games from here on.We saw what continuity did for a mediocre win record such as Jake White’s, so lets afford our coaches the same grace as its silly to expect that we go to New Zealand, Aus (even the NH) these days and win everything. But when it comes to series (Lions) and competitions (Tri- Nations) these coaches (and players) have proven themselves. The laws have changed and they are now making mistakes (which is what happened after the World Cup mind you)…they will learn like they always do! But calling for sackings and sowing divisions is not going to help the continuity.We are stuck with these guys and SARU would be stupid to fire any of them for results at this stage. And believe me that we will lose a couple more games between now and the World Cup. And lastly, I do not believe any other coach like Heyneke would have achieved more had he been the head coach after World Cup 2007. You have to remember that the players have also failed in their execution (even “heroes” like Spies) and a coach cannot have full control of this.Everything has to come together to consistently dominate and hence this group of players and coaches need to stay together and be supported by us.
15 Jul 2010, 17:07 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-171: It would be interesting to gather Os’ thoughts about Jannie Dup. Personally I have never been a fan of the latter.
15 Jul 2010, 17:12 pm
@Smallzm(Smallzm)-174: when jake was in charge, his two assistant coaches were just puppets listening to him and being spoone fed, they had no input, of philosophy of their own, if they did how do you explain gert smal’s silence around the fact that we played without a fetcher for all those years? coaching was not done be “committee” as it seems to be currently, jake called the shots and only listened to eddie! that is gavin rich’s preferred way of coaching!
15 Jul 2010, 17:45 pm
176. Transformation(Transformation) :
I’m pretty sure Gert Smal had a lot of input. Jake has said it himself, he was very lucky to have Smal and Coetzee as assistants. Look what Coetzee is achieving with the Stormers. Gert decimated our forwards especially the line-out when we played against Ireland.
Jakes philosphy was not that you didn’t need fetchers but that you couldn’t have a dedicated one that hampered the rest of the set pieces like line-out and scrum. Every player on the field needs to be able to get over the ruck if needed and pouch a ball. JDV does it quite nicely and Du Plessis was good at it. I remember De Wet Barry being quite a decent poacher.
He liked big tall loosies and yes it worked. Louw will be a better long to option for that reason as well, but he has lots to learn still based on last weeks game, let’s see how he goes this week.
15 Jul 2010, 17:50 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-177: no specialist fetcher worked????
Highly debatable….
It worked in favour of the aussies and kiwis ….not boks….
we were plods at the breakdown….george smith and mc caw toyed with us for bloody years….
luke should have been there…
now i am late
cheers
15 Jul 2010, 17:51 pm
jake was a moron
15 Jul 2010, 17:52 pm
@Smallzm(Smallzm)-174:
I dont expect reporters to be experts in coaching, or playing for that matter.
But if you are not going to make the effort to at least research the latest trends and developments on these fronts, study the different philosophies or theories associated with it, then please spare me your opinions on it.
Then simply sit in a presser, record the bloody thing and print it verbatim. At least your credibility will be in tact.
15 Jul 2010, 17:55 pm
But there is a belief amongst reporting ranks that if you have written **** for long enough, or watched enough games, then you are automatically an expert on matters.
I would dare to suggest the average blogger on Keo has more rugby watching hours behind him than most reporters in SA.
15 Jul 2010, 18:05 pm
179. grant10(grant10) :
You’re a moron – Jake is a legend and saviour of SA rugby
15 Jul 2010, 18:06 pm
This is the type of article that any ****(son), Tom and Harry can use to spin any web of lies and intrigue the way they want to and can.
But what it shows to me, again and again, is that non-Blacks control and can do what they want to, to rugby using whatever means they desire (think *** tapes as the somewhat extreme to pull some deviant into line).
Never trust most of them because this is a penchant derived from having to live, and worse, defend a system, nay, in fact, a culture of lying with more lying to attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the majority.
But this story, distorted as it is, has some useful bits of the so 10 pieces of the puzzle that I need for the fact that Pdiv allowed himself to be blackmailed because it, for him, was the lesser of two evils to some measure of ill-found glory. That still makes him a skunk though.
15 Jul 2010, 18:26 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-181: Hi been following your ‘debate’ with dracula today, hilarious. Actually wanted to know, is there material on the net available that further explains this X,Y,Z axis approach versus the australasian scavanger-type style? Cheers
15 Jul 2010, 18:31 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-184:
Hi,
Quite a bit actually.
One of the better sites out there to get theories from coaches is the coachingtoolbox site which is NZ based, if you follow references from there (authors etc) it will open up quite a bit of resources you can follow and trace for information.
If there is anything specific of interest to you let me know and we can take this offline and I can point you in specific directions saving you sifting through thousands of websites.
15 Jul 2010, 18:33 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-185:
If it is still up and running also check the alltimecoach website’s sport section.
15 Jul 2010, 18:34 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-186:
Of particular interest to you might be to research the name Pierre Villepreux especially if you want some clarity, or a better explanation of this so-called heads up rugby which is butchered by people on this site.
15 Jul 2010, 18:46 pm
Thanks@PissAnt(PissAnt)-187: really appreciate the heads up, will have a look at that. Just generally interested at upping my knowledge, this will help a lot.
15 Jul 2010, 18:50 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-188:
No probs, there is a lot of BS out there but the more you read the more you will spot it as-well.
As a general rule, the coachingtoolbox is a great resource if you are just starting out.
15 Jul 2010, 18:51 pm
Oh and never, ever trust any website that asks you for a subscription fee for information, they are the worst resources.
Most national teams websites also have a lot of coaching sections included in their sites (including the IRB), from there you usually get to learn more and more resources you can follow individually.
15 Jul 2010, 18:57 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-190: yup already burnt my fingers on ‘Better Rugby Coaching’ Steve Cottrell is the editor, a lot of hot air!
15 Jul 2010, 18:58 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-177: “and yes it worked” are you sure? Go read post #115 and marinate on it!
15 Jul 2010, 19:03 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-184: please guy, don’t start pissant on the de-merits of deck rugby!
please
15 Jul 2010, 19:09 pm
@rugby911(rugby911)-191:
Oh he is a first class ***.
@Transformation(Transformation)-193:
Hehehe…
There is a lot of merit in deck rugby, just in the right circumstances!
15 Jul 2010, 19:10 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-193:
Plus it would be no fun getting into that now, Grant10 is gone…
15 Jul 2010, 19:14 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-194: sure thing, just enjoy taking the piss
15 Jul 2010, 19:17 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-196:
I know, lately on here I do the same…
Pity, I miss the real rugby debates.
15 Jul 2010, 19:18 pm
Anycase I must make food for my sick wife and child.
Ciao
15 Jul 2010, 19:31 pm
Pulling the strings
1.” Springbok assistant coaches Gary Gold and **** Muir have had a major influence on the team’s playing philosophy,…..”
2. ” That the Springbok team is run by committee should be obvious to anyone who has read John Smit’s autobiography. It should have been clear to anyone who understands the game that the Springboks did not achieve their success against the British & Irish Lions and in the Tri-Nations playing the off-the-cuff rugby that De Villiers spoke about when he first took over.”
3. ” Behind the scenes a long battle was being waged in 2008 to get the Boks back to the game that won the World Cup just a year earlier. The players were part of that battle, but the assistant coaches were also facing each other across the trenches, with the different philosophies of **** Muir and Gary Gold having an impact on the initial formulation of policy, as well as the evolution that followed.”
4. ” The reality is that strategy within the Springbok set-up has never really been driven by De Villiers….”
5. ” But the senior players cannot be fall guys because they are seen as indispensible. The assistants may be more expendable to De Villiers, which explains why it was management who were in the line of fire when he thrust out his chest and proclaimed ‘I am the boss!’ That was what De Villiers’ media outburst was about.”
The above quotes are just some gems of the intrigue that is S.A. rugby, so seemingly democratically and non-racially run but to me and others so very seedy and canned.
This is just one of the missing puzzle pieces(5 or so still needed) which points to PDiv. allowing himself(and to an extent forced) to be blackmailed to be able to earn some of the glory(ill-found nontheless) that his psyche craved as the the non self-respecting underling.
It is clear his controllers working through the Gold, Incense and Muir(gone wrong) agenda gave him very early attention after his appointment in Dec. 2007(much non-Black anger) and the first physical expression thereof was Div’s rushed trip to France and the U.K.(Fe.2008) to beg some of the delinquent “2007 WC seniors”(I used these words first in May 2008 already)to return(Smit, Matfield, Monty, James).
When he(Div) was acting out of line later they quickly reeled him in(E.L.tapes). It is abundantly clear who was dancing and who was pulling the strings of the tunes.
Also a look at his first squad against Wales had few of those ’2007WC seniors”; no FDP, Bakkies, Burger, Monty,Smit and Matfield(both minimal?) but came the last game before that 2008 TN most were back in place despite not performing really with the new elvs.
By the eoyt all available “seniors” were not only back but rumoured to be in control(LW dispelled) and at last performing to their abilities and getting winning results – see how ‘positive player -power can be or alternatively make or break a coach..
Can there still be doubters who question that PDiv is now where he had no intention of wanting to be even just from a rugby standpoint – he truly is just now trying to save face and the sometimes good results have just confused him more about this glory that he so wishes to attain.
Those who choose to ignore the real playing out of the facts can continue to be delusional even if another wheel does not fall off this Sat.
Be careful a nut who screws and bolts may still hog the headlines. Will it be Burger or danie or even replacement Flip as frustration upon frustation is heaped on the tourests?
15 Jul 2010, 19:41 pm
@ET(ET)-199:
Tourettes or tourists?
15 Jul 2010, 19:49 pm
@ET(ET)-199: i think mcdonalds will give the last 5 pieces of the puzzle with their kiddy meals
15 Jul 2010, 19:52 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-79: maybe PDV can drop a diss track like Snoop to Bill O
15 Jul 2010, 20:00 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-200:
Both really, but thanks for the correction albeit an attempt to score a point.
Now I can finish my lunch(that is what drove me to rush) without further disturbance.
I hope you are not enjoying a red.
15 Jul 2010, 20:01 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-201:
Even in the land of its origin I never ever go there.
15 Jul 2010, 20:07 pm
@ET(ET)-203:
At this time of night, I always do, Delheim Pinot to be exact.
And as for you post, tourettes actually described some of the points nicely – so great mistake there.
15 Jul 2010, 20:16 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-205:
Ok so enjoy the good Cape wine then. I cannot get Delheim here but I have beento their estate.
The Tourettes Disease reference or analogy will be correct and apt if you are applying it to those who administer the wonderful game of rugby in our country.
I will give some rugby knowledge that I doubt you really are aware of, and that is that H.O. was the first ‘Bok that I am aware of who acted, way back when, in the non-racial interest of S.A. rugby.
15 Jul 2010, 20:22 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-202:
Yeah he could put all his riddles and analogies together and bust a sick rhyme…
15 Jul 2010, 20:25 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-202: what you know about diss tracks 008?
15 Jul 2010, 20:29 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-202: who is the Best hip hop artist in Britain 008?
15 Jul 2010, 20:35 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-209:
Gotta be Roots Manoova…
15 Jul 2010, 20:54 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-205: Classic mistake. Maybe head but was involuntary. Know he winked at Lions scrumhalf.
15 Jul 2010, 21:20 pm
darren scott is an ugly son of a gun! What is wrong with him, he looks sick with his patchy skin
quite off putting
15 Jul 2010, 21:55 pm
This article is verbal diarrhoea
The Boks are going to be smashed again on saturday
its the same pathetic team as last week besides a few enforced changes
15 Jul 2010, 23:10 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-207: lol, it would be an instant lyrical classic
16 Jul 2010, 06:46 am
@ET(ET)-183: Never trust most of them??? The coaches or who?
16 Jul 2010, 09:35 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-180: Amen! So true Pissant.
16 Jul 2010, 11:37 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-162: That is CLASSIC
16 Jul 2010, 13:41 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-180: So true Pissant. Its OK as a journo to dig in and find out what is happening behind the scenes but to go on a tirade and forcefully keep trying to beat on an issue which quite frankly is not really affecting our results at this stage…is just plain ego driven. Gavin is still trying to prove the point he made 2 years ago about the Bok coaching staff and does not really realise that the only people that care these days are the ones who never really liked these coaches in the 1st place.This article is tabloid stuff and designed for people with impulsive thoughts and opinions who don’t like other people cause of the way they look or behave. As I said, other nations got smashed by us with their so called Head Coaches dictating everything….or not. (Who says they do not run their camps by committee anyway!)This is not rug by journalism. This is just a journalist waiting for the Bok team to fail on all accounts so “his open secret” about the coaches will on day be proved right.Along with this journalist tag along all the people waiting for them to fail. Its a very sick attitude towards a team with so many cups in their cabinet and very weak journalism as there is no comparison to other teams…and most importantly no rugby facts to back up his assertions around our traditional “structured” game plan which seems to always “work”. Yet when we do not use it and win (like 1st game in Aus last year)there is no understanding in the fact that we are able to vary the play and strategies to suit the game on the day. Which is probably the difference between a 60% and 70% win record as that margin of unpredictably keeps teams guessing and ensure they cannot plan against the same strategy every week. No objectivity about Gavin Rich’s articles…just pushing his own agenda!
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