Preview: All Blacks vs Springboks
16 Jul 2010
The Springboks will be better in Wellington but 21 points better is a tough ask.
A reverse of that magnitude will be a notable achievement,but it will require an exponentially improved effort across the board and a significantly poorer one from the All Blacks. As much as the prediction pains, I sense the Blacks will bag the points in the Cake Tin.
There was no secret about where the Eden Park Test was won and lost – the collisions – and that will again be the decisive facet of play this Saturday.
There was purposefulness about the Kapa o Pango in Auckland that hinted at a bruising evening for the Springboks. The Blacks delivered, brutally and accurately, to emphatically shut out opponents who a year ago had blunted them in precisely the same manner.
Players and coaches will tell you defence is about attitude, but its potency depends on it being more than that. It needs to be a hybrid of attitude, vision, intelligence and patience for it to be the cornerstone on which a Test victory is built. The Springboks exhibited these traits only in patches in Auckland, and never simultaneously, and grew progressively more vulnerable to the Blacks’ surges as the match progressed. They’ve promised improvement, and are likely to deliver. However, whether that improvement is significant enough to stifle their hosts’ attacking flow remains to be seen.
Quick ball for the Blacks will reopen the mental wounds and potentially expose structural deficiencies that haven’t been remedied. If they can control the tempo of the match through bossing the gain line and breakdown, the Springboks will make their defensive task infinitely easier. Openside flank Francois Louw will be crucial in this regard, and he’ll have to banish the memory of a forgettable Test last week. Just how influential he is will rest largely on his team-mates’ defensive solidity. Any breach of the gain line immediately undermines his (and others’) ability to compete for a turnover or recycle slow.
The same applies on attack, where the ability of their primary ball carriers to bust the gain line will create more space and time to execute their subsequent plays. Given the offering from the players this week pertaining to their game plan, the kick-chase approach, which brought so much success in 2009 but contributed significantly to their downfall in Auckland, will be persisted with. Herein lies a potentially terminal problem.
While the absence of scrumhalf Fourie du Preez cannot be the sole reason for the defeat, there is no question that his absence was illuminated in light of the game plan they sought to employ. Asking Ricky Januarie to play that type of game is akin to rolling Tyson behind a Grand Piano and asking him to wow a capacity Royal Albert Hall with his musical skill, touch and flair.
Furthermore, and herein lies the value of the world’s greatest players, Du Preez possesses an aura that infiltrates the very psyche of his opponents. Allow me to illustrate. In 2005, English cricketer Ian Bell spent countless hours facing a state-of-the-art bowling machine called Merlyn. The contraption claimed to be able to replicate, exactly, every delivery in Australian leg spinner Shane Warne’s repertoire. Bell was impenetrable against ‘Shane’ in the nets. Warne then dismissed Bell five times in the subsequent Ashes series, illustrating how his physical presence, and the aura and the history he brought with him, was an invaluable asset to his side. Du Preez has the same effect.
But the Springbok coaching staff seems intent on demanding that Tyson play a show-stopper. They’ve ignored the fact that he will attempt to do so whilst donning boxing gloves.
Januarie’s struggles will impact on flyhalf Morné Steyn and that will have in turn have an adverse effect on the rest of the backline – one that includes a wing desperate for a return to inside centre, an inside centre and fullback unsure about their aptitude for Test rugby, a pivot secretly pining for the return of the world’s pre-eminent No 9, and a scrumhalf trying desperately to prove his ongoing value to a side in the face of vehement criticism.
It all makes for a messy situation, one compounded by the fact that Danie Rossouw will play despite probably not being 100% fit.
The Springboks will achieve parity at scrum time but will dominate the lineouts – Victor Matfield has never been out smarted twice in succession and Blacks forwards coach Steven Hansen will be embarrassed after his cocky assessment of the set piece following their relative success there in Auckland.
Sadly, in my opinion, Hansen will have the last laugh at full-time. This is unless the Springboks summon the mental and physical resolve and have formulated an approach that is tailored around the resources at their disposal.
Prediction: All Blacks by 7
New Zealand - 15 Mills Muliaina, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma’a Nonu, 11 Rene Ranger, 10 Daniel Carter, 9 Piri Weepu, 8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Jerome Kaino, 5 Tom Donnelly, 4 Brad Thorn, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Keven Mealamu, 1 Tony Woodcock.
Subs: 16 Corey Flynn, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Sam Whitelock, 19 Liam Messam, 20 Jimmy Cowan, 21 Aaron Cruden, 22 Israel Dagg.
Springbok – 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 Jean de Villiers, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Wynand Olivier, 11 Bryana Habana, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Ricky Januarie, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Francois Louw, 6 Schalk Burger, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Danie Rossouw, 3 CJ van der Linde, 2 John Smit (c), 1 Gurthro Steenkamp.
Subs: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 BJ Botha, 18 Andries Bekker, 19 Dewald Potgieter, 20 Ruan Pienaar, 21 Butch James, 22 Gio Aplon.
By Ryan Vrede
400 Comments
16 Jul 2010, 00:01 am
They’ll close the gap, but still lose. And widen the gap on the historic ledger to eleven.
16 Jul 2010, 00:03 am
Boks by 3
16 Jul 2010, 00:12 am
2 entire paragraphs about a player that didnt even make the plane – surely you can do better than that ?!
16 Jul 2010, 00:25 am
Certainly your lineout will be better.
There are a lot of people in NZ who also consider Steve Hansen to be an arrogant prick, and often ineffectual coach.
PDV has got his loose forward mix wrong for this game.
Your 7 & 8 got hammered, and have now been selected for a wet track.
From what i saw in s14 Kankowski & Potgeiter are superior wet weather footballers, and would form an effective loosie trio with Burger.
16 Jul 2010, 00:49 am
Kanko is not a wet weather player so I am happy with the loosie trio – Spies and Louw will not have shockers again and wet weather may end up suiting the Boks as it will slow the game down and end up in more structured play and set pieces
Not going to be easy but it will be close. Tough to call, depends how much focus the AB’s maintain, or if they think the job is done and they just have to turn up. PLay like they did last week and they will win, but it’s a lot to maintain that pressure and accuracy 2 weeks in a row – everything stuck luck week & that wont be the case this week. Plus an inexperienced bench will make it very interesting if it’s close late one
16 Jul 2010, 01:14 am
We need JdV at centre to organise the backline. It is ridiculous to play him out of position. Our defense has always been key to our game – last week it let us down (amongst others). Looks like it may be a similar outcome this weekend.
16 Jul 2010, 01:23 am
Boks to lose and possibly be defeated by Australia too on the away trip. Probably heading back to SA 0-3 down. Lucky if they finish series 3-3. Then they’ll get hammered up in Northern Hemisphere on EOYT.
PS Justice for Bakkies at last!
16 Jul 2010, 01:29 am
Now I may be the only donki to say this – Boks to win by 7.
The 21 point turn around is irrelevant. 7 soft points with 14 guys on the field after a bad box kick. 7 points in the last minute when the contest was over. Now I know the points need to be scored at some point in a game. The Boks will never be as bad as last saturday and the Blacks will never be as good as last saturday agains the Springboks. And they only manage to score 7 more points then the Springbok through good play, structure and pressure.
Looks to me like the All Blacks might struggle this saturday if they only managed that against a really bad springbok team and they were as all the all black supports state on top form.
If we get klapped again this saturday questions can be asked in the direction of team selection and game plan. But for now I shall support the Boks unlike most Boks supporters this week that turned on there team like stupid poms. PATHETIC.
If the Boks manage a win on saturday I hope all of you naai-off to some place where they can teach you when to support and when to break down.
16 Jul 2010, 01:35 am
Mmm talk of the town is that the ABs’ played an almost perfect match last Saturday, what are the odds for doing it two weeks in a row? Same token, the Boks were poor and what are the odds of that happening two weeks in a row?
So does this mean a huge change in fortunes? I expect a little drop in the AB play, a little pick up in the Boks play which will mean a closer game. Unfortunately I can’t see the Boks winning, not because of the above but because of wrong team selections. If you want to play Jean dV play him at 12 or don’t play him at all.
Even the Rugby Club in Oz had our #9 eating McDonalds, says it all and for as long as we keep him there it probably does not matter who plays in the remainder of the backline.
Spies needs to show he can play rugby when the going gets tough, simple as that and until that happens you can’t blame Flo for a poor game. We have short memories, remember not so long ago people complained about Juan, guess who he was playing with then?
Lets hope Ed the Lip is right and the line out will be fixed but I think we will be ok…
16 Jul 2010, 01:38 am
@Donk-i-Kong(Donk-i-Kong)-8:
Oh get off your high donki man! There is a vast difference between giving contructive critisism and not supporting a team. Blind faith gets you nowhere.
16 Jul 2010, 01:40 am
And something for the All Black supporter and management.
I can remember what wise-asses you where 18 monts out from the previous 4 world cups. I can see a trend here. I was in Cardiff when all you dose lost to the Frogs. It wasnt pretty. Big men crying like that. Priceless.
I’ll be down your way next WC and I’ll enjoy it even more this time. Because you idiots just dont learn do you. 1st win the big one before preaching new rugby. I can understand that you slow learners. They say the hardest thing in life for a new zealander is to get through primary school.
16 Jul 2010, 01:46 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-9: I agree theam needs to change a bit. But JdV playing on the wing is his punishment for playing at Munster and WO reward for playing solid in the S14. If we lose on Saurday then at least we’ve gaijn something out of these losses. JdV back on 12 for good without questions ask and January probably finished for good.
But for now. For what I see infront of me. We can do it with this team. It might be a blessing in the sky come next year if we lose again this Saturday.
Nobody remember the 3nations if you win the WC the year after.
As I see it. We are in a win win situation here.
16 Jul 2010, 01:49 am
Donkey – @ss. Seems appropriate.
You want arrogance, take a stroll on this blog before last weeks game chump
Boks had a great season LAST YEAR. And boy have we heard about that ad nauseam.
Only as good as your last game @ss
16 Jul 2010, 02:02 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-13: POPPA NOB I’ve been on this web site this whole week. I had enough. We’ve taken our loss and humble pie. But whats enough is enough. At some point somebody needs to stand up for all the **** that was said. You for one should never be on this site again if the Boks win on saturday. Because thats possible and all the snot that came out of your mouth this week would have been a wast of time.
Teams lose in sport. Its a away game and all. Not the end of the world. So for the all blacks to still go on like wise idiots about last weeks win and the Bok supporters that think all 15 should be shot. It was one away game.
So shut up I’ve heard you opinion this weak. You dont have a lot to say anyway.
16 Jul 2010, 02:05 am
@Donk-i-Kong(Donk-i-Kong)-8:
Good to see you back your team no matter unlike a few here.
There is never a bad springbok team as you have suggested. They were outplayed by a better team on the day. Boks were made to play bad in my opinion therefore it didnt matter how many points NZ won by,its they way they went about i by slowly dismantling the Boks and their confidence or even arrognace in some cases.
All games can be won on soft tries,just like when the Boks won in Dunedin in the last minute of play with a little chip kick,very soft. But it did the job.
16 Jul 2010, 02:05 am
Bwahahaha @ss. Like dishing it can’t take it mamparra????
Taken enough. Haha I believe you take it all right.
As I said chump, you should have seen the k@k we’ve been dished up for a year
Paybacks a b i t c h.
@SS!!!
16 Jul 2010, 02:17 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-15: Yeah Hurri, you sort of walked away thinking how do we get back from THIS? Does not mean it can’t happen but it does make it a lot harder. It will be interesting to see how the team does come back from it, will tell us a whole lot about the real mettle of the team and the coach.
Unfortunately whatever happens on Saturday will be clouded with some weird team selections and in a close comp like the 3N it can have a huge impact.
Pops, don’t feed the animals!
16 Jul 2010, 02:18 am
@Donk-i-Kong(Donk-i-Kong)-11:
Thank you
It is sad seeing grown men cry,but hey if SA can blame every loss on travel,refs and e-mails then we got ripped in that game. But its all history now as is the complete dishing the boks got of what rugby is suppose to look like.
@Donk-i-Kong(Donk-i-Kong)-14:
So you have been here a WHOLE WEEK.
Did you miss the posts about the boks might as well go home until the ABs get better. So as you can see its been hell here for us Kiwis with the over confident arrogant posters as well as journalists.Looks like you will fit in quite nicely here……so Welcome
16 Jul 2010, 02:23 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-17:
Agree
Your team can only be as good as the coach allows it. Being from the game plan to the choice of players he picks. All teams have this problem believe me.
Doing the basics correctly would close the scoreline i believe. Boks didnt do much last week and i dont know why,they have the team that can destroy all on the day.
The ABs surprised me i must say,they way they went about the game last week. I was damn worried but felt alot better afterwards as you would imagine.
This Saturday is a new day and game,anything can happen and probably well
16 Jul 2010, 02:32 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-15: I agree. That why I said the points need to come from somewhere in a game. And I dont have a problem if any team wins with soft points.
what I was trying to say is that its easier to correct soft points that what some people on this site make it to be. The 1st ry was beacuse there was 14 guys on the field not because of pressure and the last 1 was when the game was over not pressure.
The All Blacks was the better team on saturday but they only managed 7 solid points more. It should’ve been more and for that reason I say that this saturday is going to be close because how much points can they score if they do not have that dominance. And make no mistake they are not going to have that dominance this saturday.
If they do I’ll take my hat of and say well done. But I am not going to ***-rape my own team after just 1 game like most saffas on this site did this week.
16 Jul 2010, 02:34 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-19:
Hurri, now without using it as an excuse for the life of me I have no idea who decided they should only fly in on the Monday before the test. I hear the Ozmob saying the Boks looked a little tired and unfit! I find it hard to believe these guys who played through a S14 right to the end suddenly turned unfit. What is left is the tiredness then and what I expect to be pi$$poor planning froma coaching/management team!
It was very obvious the ABs’ came to play and for some revenge. The Boks? Well it looked like just another practise run against some b team, boy did they pay the price?!
16 Jul 2010, 02:43 am
@Donk-i-Kong(Donk-i-Kong)-20: From my point of view. No excuses for last week. Thats what they did and the best they could’ve done with all the planning and all.
We got beaten. End of story. Congrats to the All Blacks. This is a new game.
And for you that dont like the opinion of saffa reporters last week. Well naai-off. I had to read your articles. I dont think your opinion is the same as all the stories I read in the NZ papers and hopefully you know that whats in our papers is not the opinion of all south African.
16 Jul 2010, 03:01 am
Boks were let down by Bakkies at exactly the wrong time.
Boks defense, especially first time tackles, were not good enough
The persistence with the kicking game ad nauseam, even when it’s not working, will lead to defeat because, as with previous strategies, opponents work out how to counter it in time. The AB’s have spent the last year working on this (an effective counter strategy).
Jean, a good solid player is really a centre who is at his best alongside Jacque – on the wing he is relatively ineffectual against AB’s.
Ricky is an attacking running player who should not be used to kick all the time. he should be played off the bench and has proven impact in this role.
Spies was really missing last weekend and has to prove the merit of his selection this weekend and that he doesn’t always need a lot of space to be effective. His body position in contacts is also way too high.
Where is the Beast!! – a very important element in last years physical dominance and defense against AB’s. I feel his loss.
Springboks may lose this weekend , but I doubt very much they can lose to the Wallabies who look really weak this year.
Let’s hope if they do lose, that the right changes are made to tactics and players in certain positions. It can only help as we build to the RWC.
Go the Boks!
16 Jul 2010, 03:04 am
@Donk-i-Kong(Donk-i-Kong)-22: Go on dip the south african arrogance hole deeper
16 Jul 2010, 03:06 am
Yes the AB’s played really well but one cannot say it was a bad Boks side.
Looking at some of the plays the Boks were playing well but got caught with their pants down in the fitness aspect of the game.
Fitness and technique lets you done in the tackle department of the game.
So many huge missed tackle counts is going to hurt. Missed tackles are always scoring opportunities.
The stormers had always been not so good on the missed tackles this has been brought into the Bok game. One can get away from it at S14 level but at national level against sides who can execute well…its lights out!
Two concerns for the boks this weekend..Fitness and missed Tackles. These are ingredients of the difference between winning and losing.
16 Jul 2010, 03:09 am
@wallabie.(wallabie.)-25: How do you reckon the new wallabies guys are going to go?
16 Jul 2010, 03:09 am
@Donk-i-Kong(Donk-i-Kong)-22:
Without us kiwis,who will bring some of these posters down to earth?
16 Jul 2010, 03:11 am
Good point re Stormers and missed tackles, unfortunately most SA teams in the S14 are susceptible to this compared to Kiwi S14 teams.
Physicality was missing, let’s hope this returns.
Should be a better performance tomorrow.
16 Jul 2010, 03:12 am
Bakkies actually had a good game..where was Victor and John Smit. Spies is that consistent at all…he needs space to do his deeds maybe its height to get off the mark in the first 5 metres that lets him down.
I think PDV is going to have real problem come end of the year. John Smit only offers leadership on the field…there are definitely better options waiting to take his place.
When does a coach say that leadership is not enough!!
16 Jul 2010, 03:14 am
Wallabies are in crises I would say – very significant lack of depth and reliance on one or two players. If Quade Cooper gets injured, they are in real trouble. Their front row is embarrassing and their looses too soft.
Some good talent here and their, but not enough..
Australian rugbys own fault as they do not develop the game outside their traditional mainly private school support base.
16 Jul 2010, 03:14 am
Why do people always think they know better than the bookies?
I think it is clear who will be humiliated AGAIN on Saturday:
Ladbrokes: New Zealand vs South Africa. 1/3
PaddyPower: New Zealand vs South Africa. 10/11
Skybet: New Zealand vs South Africa. 1/3
16 Jul 2010, 03:21 am
If the Boks can turn defense into offence effectively and stop AB momentum, they can win.
Super aggressive tackling and shut down and not kick away possession at key moments will do it.
16 Jul 2010, 03:23 am
@dhale(dhale)-23: You hit the nail on the head, dhale. Like the Borg’s infamous ‘We will adapt’ the ABs adapted to the Boks 1 trick pony kick-and-chase rubbish and crushed them with distinction. Unfortunately the Bok management failed to adapt their game plan clinging on to the glories of yesteryear.
16 Jul 2010, 03:25 am
@dhale(dhale)-30: Wallabies never had a lot of depth. They simply do phenomenally well with a very small player base. Give credit where it is due.
16 Jul 2010, 03:33 am
@wallabie.(wallabie.)-25: Fitness starts with the captain. If the Bok captain carries an extra 20 kgs and starts huffing and puffing after the first ten minutes, then how are the team supposed to lift their game when their leader is bursting at the seams and falling off tackles with lungs unfit for transplant to a chain smoker?
16 Jul 2010, 03:35 am
Kwas – yes I do admit that they do well with what they have, but they also have opportunities to grow this game we love in a sports mad population, but stick to their traditional support base. It’s almost as if they don’t want to go beyond the private school set.. In addition, isnt it pure stupidity that they have a rule that prevents them selecting any player who has gone overseas to play.
I do admire their professionalism, perhaps the most professional of all the Tri Nations rugby administrations, but feel that they can do a hell of a lot more in Oz to grow the game.
In the meantime Aussie Rules and to a lesser degree Rugby League are developing all over the country. Aussie Rules have even taken the fight to traditional rugby heartland by focusing now on private schools specifically..
sorry – went off the topic here re selection for tomorrow….
16 Jul 2010, 03:37 am
The boks will continue to suck themselves down in aroogance and mediocrity while they have an idiot like Smit playing, he rather be eating pies, don’t pin too much hope on Du Preez either, his day is over and hugely overated anyway
16 Jul 2010, 03:40 am
a differnet tone to the build up last week. These Boks need to dig deep and claw their way back into this tournament. I prefer it when Boks have their back to the wall. Still not happy with JDV out of position and Januarie but otherwise its the besdt we can do in the circumstances. Got a good feeling about this one but still a huge mountain to climb.
Anyone think there will be major changes if the Boks don’t perform?
16 Jul 2010, 03:42 am
@dhale(dhale)-23: Aish dhale, we have walked the Suncorp path a few times without success. The blerrie Aussies always worries me!
16 Jul 2010, 03:44 am
@kesbok(kesbok)-38: There has to be changes but they will only happen if forced, bet the game plan stays the same for this weekend as last weekend
16 Jul 2010, 03:45 am
changing the subject a little and referring to the Pulling of Strings of Muir and Gold on another thread. I have it on good authority that in the week up to the test certain members of the coaching staff went out and got pissed. If they wield such influence then is this the kind of behaviour we want in a professional set up.
Conversely, the Wallabies were out to dinner this week in Sydney and my relianble sourcess tell me not one alcohlic drink was consumed.
Set the standards folks ASAP.
16 Jul 2010, 03:46 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-39: Ja, that Quade Cooper is a vinnige bliksem…
16 Jul 2010, 03:46 am
@kesbok(kesbok)-38: Kessie, regardless of the outcome on Saturday, we can expect Juan Smith and JP Pietersen to return for the home leg. Jean will naturally move back into the midfield to partner Jacque with JP back. Other than that, I can’t see much change even if Boks get smashed on Saturday. They might give Gio a chance at fullback – let’s face it, he can’t do any worse than Zane.
The only way is up, baby!
16 Jul 2010, 03:48 am
Dont get me started on Zane…! If there ever was a passenger…
16 Jul 2010, 03:52 am
@kesbok(kesbok)-41: Being a Bok coach is no different to any other job. If your job is guaranteed until after the WC, then how easy is it to drop your standards? On the other hand, if you know the hammer can fall at any stage, you simply don’t drop your guard the way the Bok management did last week. This is a slow poison for the team as the top brass is supposed to set the example and demand discipline.
16 Jul 2010, 03:56 am
Something to think about!
Since Bakkie Botha became a Bok in 2002, the Boks won only one (1) Test against the ABs WITHOUT him!
And that Test’s credibility at Rustenburg in 2006 was already in question included the farce of Joost vd W prsenting the cup to the wrong team -the ABs won the Series 2:1 – so what the odds of the Boks winning at Hamilton without Bakkie, FdP and F. Styen?!
16 Jul 2010, 04:02 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-46: be very high since the wouldn’t be playing anyone cause the game is in Wellington lol.
16 Jul 2010, 04:10 am
its not all doom and gloom for any of these two teams, it maybe hard for the boks if they lose again this sat but theirs still a lot of rugby to be played. You never know the oz boys might come out firing and suprise us all and win the tri nations. Even though that is unlikely, but it would be funny, don’t think any of us would have much to say after that
16 Jul 2010, 04:10 am
The Test is a competition and the Boks will play hard but then few worried issues:
What if JS is injured earlier?
2. The ABs shamelessly played to the Boks 3 major weaknesses last week: Steenkamp, Januarie and and Kirchner, it paid handsome dividends
3. Both JdV and Habana are neglecting their defence in favour of the more glamorous interceptions, the ABs addressed it correctly and created big breaks along the touch lines, how would you rectify it? two world class backs on the decline who are too selfish to break bad habits to put the team first?
16 Jul 2010, 04:17 am
@Kiwisamoan(Kiwisamoan)-47:
This test is for the ABs to lose, I can’t see any mitigation: No FdP, Bakkie and F. Styen, our 3 best No8 JvN, Albert and Cronje aren’t even in the squad, and the ABs nearly purged all their PI mercenaries from the side, they played like we haven’t seen them since playing 2008 at CT(0:19)
16 Jul 2010, 04:21 am
@Kiwisamoan(Kiwisamoan)-48:
Forget it, Deans breaking them apart with his funny, PIs inclined selections, maybe the NZRU knew something we didn’t when overlooked him in 2007 for the ABs post?
16 Jul 2010, 04:26 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-50: Your right it is there for us to lose but boks will be coming out firing. Well we’re in a similar situation without, sivi, Williams, Hore our three first choice players. Don’t know about the PI mercenaries comment, those boys play are just as kiwi as the next guy, and remember NZ is a pacific island.
16 Jul 2010, 04:34 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-51: you never know, Deans might pull something out of the hat. Whats with these P.I comments, you got somethings against them?
16 Jul 2010, 04:53 am
@Donk-i-Kong(Donk-i-Kong)-20: The score differential was TWENTY, not seven.
And to win you don’t need 7 more points, anyway. You only need one more. The ABs therefore exceeded their brief by nineteen.
Yes, it was a complete snotting, wasn’t it?
16 Jul 2010, 04:58 am
@Kiwisamoan(Kiwisamoan)-53:
He has got a problem with anything that coloured i believe.
I mean most of the SA team are dutch,do you see us complaining?
16 Jul 2010, 05:02 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-55: true yea, sounds like it, to bad he doesn’t have the b@lls to tell a PI in the face what he really feels.
16 Jul 2010, 05:07 am
@Kiwisamoan(Kiwisamoan)-56:
Always have to read your name twice… keep thinking it is Kiwis Moan…. but then see all the pro-AB comments!
Ja, not fussed by the whole PI thing… think Aus and England are prob a bit more guilty of poaching…
16 Jul 2010, 05:11 am
@offsides(offsides)-57:
. think the poach thing is getting old though, you got guys playing all over the world now, so if they want to play for that country and the get picked then so be it. Looking forward to this weekend going to be another epic battle.
16 Jul 2010, 05:26 am
We were competetive until Bakkies brain exsplosion. Damm fool.
Not so cocksure as last week with my kiwi mates even betting against the Abs.
Same issues really.
Tubbie will once again make Steyns life hell.
WO to have that vacant look again.
JDV out of position
A predictable kicking game.
Mccaw to escape red cards again.
Think I will watch this one at home.
16 Jul 2010, 05:29 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-59: Bakkies had his brain explosion less than two minutes into the match. The Boks therefore kicked off very well. But that’s about it.
16 Jul 2010, 05:32 am
Thats the point Tockles…
16 Jul 2010, 05:36 am
Boks will not win Tri-N with “Roll-on No9″ as scrum half.
16 Jul 2010, 05:42 am
62. Bull in Cairns(Bull in Cairns) I think he will move faster if you tip him on his side and roll him across the field.
But sadly he is only 1 issue in this potentially very good team.
16 Jul 2010, 06:47 am
Ryan
This is a logical, well thought through article with a reasonable conclusion.
We are indeed severely limited by our current scrumhalf, hooker and flanker combination and a 7 point victory for the Kiwis is the safest prediction.
That said, I don’t rate this Kiwi team as a particularly strong one, and a combined team on Saturday would still have more Boks than All Blacks in it, based on sheer individual talent.
With a bit of luck the Boks might just take this game, and the Tri Nations title with it.
16 Jul 2010, 06:52 am
All Blacks to take a close one, the Boks not playing the best players will hurt us. And by not the best read Ricky, John and JdV out of position.
16 Jul 2010, 06:54 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-64: Would like to give the loose trio another chance before writing them off as a unit, as you said earlier in the week its hard to judge players when your tight five are playing like fairies
16 Jul 2010, 07:04 am
@Disa(Disa)-66: Jy alweer op een van daai laaaaang lunches van jou?
16 Jul 2010, 07:06 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-67: Ek is nou so lui my hol hang oop
16 Jul 2010, 07:08 am
@Disa(Disa)-68: Self, ek het ‘n moerse kerrie gehad vir lunch, nou wil ek le!
16 Jul 2010, 07:30 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-64:
Each one has his opinion and he’s entitled for it
Question is, would you put your money on the Boks Tomorrow?
Bear in mind, the Boks won once since 2002 against the ABs WITHOU Botha, they also won ONCE without FdP
They never won without BOTH FdP and Botha!
16 Jul 2010, 07:39 am
Good morning all – SA time.
Hmmmm… been watching the Boks train…..
Pakslae not imo 100%…… maybe better by gametime?
Let’s hope for the best but do not put money on this!
Weather wise…. seems to be better weather here than at home… so lets hope the A4Y’s have a bad day and we have a good day!
16 Jul 2010, 07:58 am
oh for f.ck’s sake, now fourie du preez also has this uncanny ability to do jedi mind tricks on the opposition even without touching the ball?
we’re really stuffed then, no frans steyn, no du preez, both our merchants of subliminal subjugation
here i thought victor was the best lock in the world who also can infiltrate the psyche of opposition lineouts, last week he got duped by the all black, taken to school, got 3 lineouts stolen and couldn’t touch sh:t mealamu threw at his jumpers!
Oh well.
16 Jul 2010, 07:59 am
Carrting…
Smit
Spies
WO
JDV
Kiwis by 5…..and it kills me typing that.
16 Jul 2010, 07:59 am
carrying….still early!
16 Jul 2010, 08:12 am
Boks by 6, we will be the desperate side this week,this is an average AB side, if we put them under pressure in the correct areas they will be exposed.
The receipe to beating the AB’s is atatcking them around the fringes of rucks, mauls, and around scrums. To do this SSSSSPPPPPIIIEEEESSSSSSSS will have to pull his weight !!!
16 Jul 2010, 08:12 am
If the mighty Boers can win with the ‘****** on their back’ coach will be a testament to their inner resolve and talent.
As I said before the Boks have to piggyback the passengers along in the next few games and just get on with the job at hand and concentrate more towards the positive impact the rest can bring to the game.
16 Jul 2010, 08:13 am
yawn
16 Jul 2010, 08:13 am
@kwas(kwas)-31: during a World Cup those odds look remarkably similar ro WC 99, 03 and 07 and the bookies were ever so far off the mark there now weren’t they.
Donki I am with you bud that is the best the AB’s can play and very much deserved the win they were better than us on the day but as John Smit said it was that we were so poor on the day if we play to our potential we will win the question is which Bok team will turn up the one that can and will dismantle this very good AB team or the one who goes missing for periods of the game I say always fear a wounded Springbok. I wouldn’t take heed of Poppa he is a xenophobic moron with very little rugby knowledge.
BOKKE BO KLAP DIE ETTERS SHOSHOLOZA
16 Jul 2010, 08:19 am
@bluealligator(bluealligator)-78:
I agree and do ignore him.
16 Jul 2010, 08:22 am
@Predawn (Great White Shark)(Predawn)-76: yawn
16 Jul 2010, 08:23 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-80:
it seems to be catching…
16 Jul 2010, 08:25 am
@Predawn (Great White Shark)(Predawn)-76:
yawn
16 Jul 2010, 08:37 am
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
16 Jul 2010, 08:41 am
@gunther(gunther)-81: quite contagious really…
16 Jul 2010, 08:46 am
The ‘Fat Boys Club’ will plod around and kick possession away all day long….Plod says the game plan is the right one….
All hail Plod…..the chairman of the ‘Fat Boys Club ‘…
16 Jul 2010, 08:48 am
All hail the mighty Boers with the ********* coach on their backs.
16 Jul 2010, 08:49 am
Criticising your man Januarie. Well perhaps you do know a little about rugby after all.
16 Jul 2010, 08:52 am
SA by 10, tight five to have a vastly improved showing. AB will find it difficult to repeat their performance of last weekend.
16 Jul 2010, 08:53 am
“While the absence of scrumhalf Fourie du Preez cannot be the sole reason for the defeat, there is no question that his absence was illuminated in light of the game plan they sought to employ. Asking Ricky Januarie to play that type of game is akin rolling Tyson behind a Grand Piano and asking him to wow a capacity Royal Albert Hall with his musical skill, touch and flair.”
Hahahaha! It’s the stomach..gets in the way of the ball.
16 Jul 2010, 09:19 am
Fourie du Preez is not the rugby demi-God he seems to be made out to be by Keo’s disciples. As I recall, a certain Will Genia pretty much made him his b*tch in the Superm 14.
16 Jul 2010, 09:23 am
This is throwing the spotlight very brightly onto PdV’s abilities as coach. He is clearly not experimenting here, the only changes being enforced. This means this team is his first choice of all those available to be selected.
I find this very worrying as, along with many others, I cannot believe that Ricky is the best available scrumhalf, that WO should be at 12 while JdV is put on the wing while Aplon sits on the bench. Then there is the question of why Butch is on the bench when Ruan can cover 9 and 10. If this is to be our world cup line-up, we are truly screwed. If not why are we not seeing the likes of De Jongh getting battled hardened in NZ? Why are our multiple great scrumhalves left out of the equation?
The only conclusion I can draw is that the coach has no imagination or vision. The players like him because he appears to let them do as they please. This is workable as long as the team is winning. When it isn’t the coach has to make tough and intelligent decisions. Sending the same malfunctioning formations out again indicates his optimism exceeds his understanding. I hope he proves me wrong.
16 Jul 2010, 09:23 am
“Du Preez possesses an aura that infiltrates the very psyche of his opponents.” These journos are pulling the piss now.
16 Jul 2010, 09:25 am
Ricky should get booted, meisiekind moved to the bench while JDiv moved back alongside JF.
Why is BJ on the bench? He should either start or not be in the team, he is not an impact player. Why not have Beast on the bench? He could add some much need physicality come the second half.
I would play Pienaar at scrumhalf, Jdiv at 12 and F Hougard at wing. I would replace CJ with BJ and have Beast as prop sub on the bench. Also I would have Tiaan Liebenberg on the bench instead of Chillyboy (just to small at hooker). Also I would fly over F Steyn immediatly as we need a better kicker at FB!
16 Jul 2010, 09:27 am
boring
16 Jul 2010, 09:30 am
It is a cunning plan.
The more irritating coloureds we choose, the more the boere will lose their exalted inlated opinions of themselves on the rugby field.
And it’s working!
Up yours, boere!
16 Jul 2010, 09:31 am
What was I saying about flamers..
16 Jul 2010, 09:31 am
@ultra vires(ultra vires)-7: Agreed – I predict a whitewash against the Boks on tour and probably at least 1 loss on home soil. The boys are going down this Tri Nations due to players being out of place, best players being out to injury, insistence on playing under par and out of form players. And PDV wont fix it after this cos he will still blindly believe he´s right and all of us are wrong.
Still want to know what – Jannie Du Plessis, John Smit, Schalk Burger, Chilliboy Ralepelle, Ricky Januarie, Butch James, Wynand Olivier and Zane Kirchner are doing in the team.
And Jean de Villiers better sort himself out pronto otherwise he can join that list. Man has to be given a chance at 12 again. Bloody ridiculous. Why dont they play bloody Ricky at hooker? Be less of a liability at least.
16 Jul 2010, 09:32 am
We have known ever since his appointment that Puppet is not a good enough coach for the Boks crikey even his boss Mr Hoskins on his appointment said Puppet was selected for his ethnicity not his rugby acumen. Now don’t get me wrong I have no problem with his ethnicity I just think that if we had to have a non white coach there are several better options Alastair Coetzee for one, he has transformed WP and Stormers rugby and I am not blaming Puppet alone I think Muir and Gold are out of their depths as well. If we act decisively it is not to late to fire the lot and get in a coaching staff with the ability to defend our world cup with the talent pool at their disposal
16 Jul 2010, 09:34 am
@Predawn (Great White Shark)(Predawn)-96:
Truth hurts, doesn’t it.
16 Jul 2010, 09:36 am
@Predawn (Great White Shark)(Predawn)-96:
Stirring with wit is entertaining
Dull, repetative stirring is well, plain dull and repetative
Please up your game
Thank you
16 Jul 2010, 09:38 am
I am starting to seriously doubt Muir’s contribution to South African rugby. Not too sure about the other fella yet.
Imagine if Meyer had got the Bok coaching post. That man has unbelievable vision. Another waste of talent suffocated by politics.
16 Jul 2010, 09:40 am
Been reading Spiro’s article on SMH…it drew many a saffa response.
Very arrogant saffa responses one highlighting a Wallaby loss to Scotland as a reaction to Spiro’s drivel.
Very short sighted to use that loss as did not the boks lose badly at the EOYT last year…against 2 club sides!!
16 Jul 2010, 09:42 am
@Predawn (Great White Shark)(Predawn)-101: now only. **** has been the problem all along buddy. i’ve said it for 2 years now after his stint in charge of the sharks.
he a nice guy, but not a good coach. rotate, rotate, play players out of position constantly, haul 6 players off the field in one go and send on 6 subs……run at everything…..look at where he got the lions.
he needs to go…the sooner the better.
16 Jul 2010, 09:43 am
This Sat competition between Piri and Ricky “which halve ate all the pies”, Boks wont out-flair the on momentum AB’s but can out-structure them, which might mean some boring rugby…
16 Jul 2010, 09:44 am
@wallabie.(wallabie.)-102:
It was embarrassing to have called that team Springboks. Springboks they were not…more of a thrown together ‘SA Experimental’ 15.
A historical low point in South African rugby.
16 Jul 2010, 09:44 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-59: Were we competative for all of 1 minute? Clown!
16 Jul 2010, 09:45 am
@grant10(grant10)-85: Just a suggestion…
If you haven’t anything new to say, then would you mind sparing us your negativity?
We get it – Smit is overweight, as are one or two others. The game plan is flawed, the team is full of over-the-hill types, and until that changes then we won’t win anything. In your eyes.
Until you have anything new to add, mind finding somewhere else to post your pessimistic criticism?
16 Jul 2010, 09:46 am
Calling a Bok win.
16 Jul 2010, 09:46 am
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-103: that should read d i c k….not ****
16 Jul 2010, 09:46 am
Typical Ryan Vrede, licking some mighty Boere @ss
16 Jul 2010, 09:49 am
This Sat competition between Piri and Ricky “which halve ate all the pies”, Boks wont out-flare the on momentum AB’s but can out-structure them, which might mean some boring rugby…
16 Jul 2010, 09:49 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-95: I dunno hey Dawn, some of those coloureds are flippin good rugby players. Gio, Juan, Bjorn Basson,even Ricky when he’s fit (one of the best). You might just send them into the laager….
16 Jul 2010, 09:50 am
“Januarie’s struggles will impact on flyhalf Morné Steyn and that will have in turn have an adverse effect on the rest of the backline”
What about Ploddy and Spies not being able to provide sufficient and quality ball. Even King Victor was totally outplayed and is fastly becoming a liability.
16 Jul 2010, 09:50 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-108: Brave shout
16 Jul 2010, 09:51 am
@RedMan(RedMan)-107:
He’s part of the idiot brigade on this site that comment to flame… along with Gunther, Dawn and a few others. Their sole contribution is to say “yawn” at every post.
Ignore them.
16 Jul 2010, 09:52 am
My bad…2 posts, looking fwd to Ranger playing though
16 Jul 2010, 09:53 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-108: Me 2. Mostly because we are at our best when written off.
16 Jul 2010, 09:53 am
@RedMan(RedMan)-114:
I hope I am as successful with this call as I was with my call last week.
16 Jul 2010, 09:54 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-118: You and I both
16 Jul 2010, 09:55 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-113:
Januarie struggles with every aspect of his game. Those kicks from the base of the loose are predictable. There is a Kiwi waiting for them evey time. The same for Morne Steyn’s kicks which were countered about 80% of the time and run back at the Boks.
16 Jul 2010, 09:56 am
@Predawn (Great White Shark)(Predawn)-115:
Yawn
16 Jul 2010, 09:56 am
I said it last week and I’ll say it again. This game, like last week’s, will turn on 2 or 3 cruicial incidents, be-it a yellow card type of event like last week or a few missed tackles, or penalties. The balance is that sensitive.
Hopefully it goes our way this weekend.
16 Jul 2010, 09:57 am
@Predawn (Great White Shark)(Predawn)-120:
Up yours, boer.
Embarrasment to your volk.
16 Jul 2010, 09:58 am
k.was & D.hale
Just a couple of facts to your attention about the small player base you have in Australia rugby union you have more registered players then New Zealand rugby union so before you start giving credits where its due (k.was) could’ve you done better after winning 2 W/cups I do///
This brings me to THE AUSTRALIAN RUGBY ADMINISTRATION being admired for their PROFESSIONALISM (D.Hale) being the best in
the Tri nations wrong do you think spending on league players
was a success MELBOURNE REBELS have to look over sea to prop up their player base and nothing has been done by this administration internally to give the locals a comp to show
or strive to like n.p.c ala Currie cup CLUB RUGBY IS JUST THAT
they had a chance to kick on after winning 2 W/CUPS
AND BY THE WAY ITS A FANTASTIC SPORTING NATION and I’m not trying to vaporize you pockets just food for thought
16 Jul 2010, 10:03 am
Not all aspects, his defence is above average unlike FdP. The kicks from the base, who ever is the kicker is in some way predictable. It just need tuning on placement of the kicks. Thats all.
When Pdivvy tried to introduce total rugby with forward rumbling and backs running, the senior Boks took over suggesting they stay with Jake Whites game!
Now they stuck with 9 and 10 kicking the leather off the ball! Rob Kearney had a field day last year in Dublin!
16 Jul 2010, 10:08 am
@xp4nz(xp4nz)-124: are you g13g by any chance?
your post makes as much sense as his used to.
16 Jul 2010, 10:09 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-110:
And where would our rugby be without those arses.
16 Jul 2010, 10:10 am
Januarie’s kicks were going the same way every time and you would have thought he’d change the angle. That’s poor coaching.
I am struggling to decide where Ruan Pienaar should be. It seems almost wasteful to have him as a scrummie when he needs to be our pivot….he has uncanny instincts as a flyhalf.
16 Jul 2010, 10:11 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-95: Keyboard heroics I see. Would love for you to say that at Loftus, in from of 40K boere… Jy sal gemoer word, teef!
16 Jul 2010, 10:12 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-127: At least SA could have been part of the WC87!
16 Jul 2010, 10:14 am
I dont think its a bad thing for the coach to not make any changes other than the forced ones as it allows the players to make up for last week. The one thing though – and this is the actual point of being allowed to sub – is that if something isnt working, then be brave enough to make the change at half time or 5 to 10 min into the next half.
I would def have sent Stegman over to replace Jannie and had him on the bench, then if Flo was absolutely no where, I would try a genuine fetcher and see what a difference it would make. Someone like Pienaar also deserves a min of 30 min in order to get into the game and show us what he can do.
Jean was no where on the wing last week and hasnt been playing well at centre either overseas so I would def have subbed him off last week at half time and hopefully Pdv will this week if he has a repeat performance
16 Jul 2010, 10:17 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-125:
So FDup is overrated, and the reason why a guy who has coached the Falcons, assisted the WP and coached a few boys couldn’t get his plan to work was the fault of the players.
All you need is a speedo and a nude Watson poster to go with that skewed outlook and you’ll fit right in.
16 Jul 2010, 10:17 am
Good article Ryan – this comment of yours nails it: “expose structural deficiencies that haven’t been remedied” -
On what we’ve seen so far I doubt we’ll win even one game in the whole Tri-Nations …
16 Jul 2010, 10:17 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-129:
Shut up and get back to your village.
You and that predawn idiot the worst examples of boere I’ve ever met.
16 Jul 2010, 10:20 am
You know what the worst thing about last weeks game was for me – sure Bakkies made me see red the same way he did but that wasnt it – the worst moment in last weeks match was when John Smit decided to go for poles when we finally had some momentum and were playing decent rugby. Now if the score was still close, then the kick would have been the right option, but when you down by more than 2 converted tries, there is no point, you need tries. Now my theory is that you can kick a penalty from 50% of the field, 60 in F Steyns case, but tries arent quite as easy to come by. Had we gone for the try and scored, the Boks would finally have believed they could win the match and started waking up. Instead we got the points but it was game over from there on in and you could see it in the players
16 Jul 2010, 10:21 am
Are you as ignorant as that? You think the power-hungry english would have relinquished power if Skelm Jannie and his gang got in? Sure they’d have been more subtle about it, but only someone who does not know their history would think all would have been well.
16 Jul 2010, 10:23 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-134:
No fan of yours, but sorry for them. Every culture has their clowns.
16 Jul 2010, 10:27 am
@Predawn (Great White Shark)(Predawn)-120:
So FdPs kick are not predictable?
Again all i see as FdP as the Boks savior. If he played last Saturday it would not have been much different. If you honestly think he is your answer to the problems then get ready for another loss. And if blaming Ricky makes you feel better then good but he didnt lose the game last Saturday for the Boks
16 Jul 2010, 10:29 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-132: He is totally overated! Will Genia and Albie Matthewson totally made a prostitute out of him when they played against the Reds and Blues. He is a typical frontfoot bully (like that 2 words)and dissapear when the tough gets going!
16 Jul 2010, 10:31 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-138:
Yes they are, that still doesn’t mean they’ll be dealt with. Yes we’d probably still have lost, but not by that much. He is our best player, but he’s not God. The blame is at the feet of those in charge.
16 Jul 2010, 10:31 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-138: Fourie dp and Brussouw are SA’s versions of Carter and Mccaw
And we all know how well the ABs play without Carter and Mccaw…
16 Jul 2010, 10:32 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-139:
Like in WC, Currie Cup and S14 finals.
16 Jul 2010, 10:32 am
Going gets tough! You can choose which one is appropriate for the blue tripe aka FdP
16 Jul 2010, 10:32 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-139:
Genia will be the best in the world the way he is going. Really impressive little player and you are right he has outplayed all halfbacks this season
16 Jul 2010, 10:32 am
the chip
is turning dawn
into a
raving
lunatic
again
16 Jul 2010, 10:33 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-129: Dont drag Loftus into this. Im coloured, I frequent Loftus regulary. The Bulls fan are not the crazed racists you are making them out to be, chomping at the bits at the first sign of insult to them or their culture. A remark like that would be shrugged off with a couple of sardonic smiles and comments.
16 Jul 2010, 10:34 am
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-131:
Actually brilliant suggestion re Steghman.
16 Jul 2010, 10:35 am
BOKKE!
BOkke will win, they will do it.
16 Jul 2010, 10:36 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-137:
Yep.
I hold no brief for Ricky but this incessant blathering on about him and the specific targeting in the most derogatory of terms, really grates me.
If that makes me a teef who must be moered, then so be it.
16 Jul 2010, 10:36 am
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-141:
Understand but it wasnt Ricky that got outplayed in the lineouts,or in the collision areas. He like the rest of the backs looked clueless.
16 Jul 2010, 10:37 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-146:
It’s his type that fuel the stereotype. I have hard, hard boere as family, but they are gentle people who do more for the poor than the whole ******* government.
16 Jul 2010, 10:40 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-149:
It is being overdone. JDV being out of position hurt us more than he did.
16 Jul 2010, 10:40 am
Lekker Oosthuizen!
16 Jul 2010, 10:41 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-138:
That’s correct. I suggest you show how it is that Fourie du Preez is your persona non grata as a scrummie. He is world class according to Kiwi scribes..not me.
He does his talking on the field…not only with chip kicks but with an instinct for running at the right time. Grudgingly I have to admire him even though I would prefer Kickott but then I’m a Shark.
16 Jul 2010, 10:43 am
this thread has turned racist in 150 posts! unbelievable.
let’s talk rugby a bit. pissant says the boks are going to come good and win. i for one don’t see it.
the guys do not look hungry enough or determined enough. i’m worried that the old heads in the team have got the t-shirt and have no more motivation left.
vic, smit, habana…all weathered campaigners and they will need to step up big time to make a difference.
16 Jul 2010, 10:44 am
I won’t be bothering to watch the steaming pile of hondkak the Boks will dish up this week. Its only down from here with this kak Bok team and the deluded coaching staff who remind me of japanese WWII soldiers stranded on a Pacific island thinking they’re still fighting the war. It won’t be long before the Boks will be joining Bafana below the 50 mark on the world rankings.
Kick-and-chase is the most basic, archaic game plan to be using and against the ABs it is futile. The use of fetchers and strong ball protection is what is needed against NZ. You need good quality ball you can move through the faces and quick recycling. Look at how quick the ABs pass? I’d love to know what the AB stats are for passes received by the wingers compared to the Boks. I bet you Jane (girl’s name) & Rocokoko received 5 times more ball than Habana. Instead the Boks just want to kick precious posession away aimlessly against a team who are experts at running it fcking hard back at you! It also doesn’t help when you have a useless no.8 likes Spies. Even Habana is a harder grafter than this show pony. Move Spies to 14 and put Burger at 8 with Louw and Potgieter. Why isn’t Vermuelen there?
God PdV is so useless. So when we crash out of the group stage of the RWC (ala Bafana) will PdV’s have the balls to resign or will he claim the Boks can get better and be allowed to continue his inane mutterings becoming more and more incoherent saying talk is cheap but whiskey buys the money? I really give up with this kak of kak teams.
16 Jul 2010, 10:46 am
@Predawn (Great White Shark)(Predawn)-154:
I didnt say if i liked FdP or not, i didnt say i preferred Ricky but all i am saying is blaming one guy last week is pathetic and really cluthing at straws.
16 Jul 2010, 10:47 am
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-155: I agree about the lack of hunger. I still think its no excuse. The ABs seem hellbent on proving a point everytime they play. They could be playing Japan and the ABs will relentlessly hammer the sh.it out of them by over a 100 points while the Boks would put 35 past them and let it 2 tries in the process. I blame the coaching staff for the lack of motivation.
16 Jul 2010, 10:47 am
I am concerned that we cannot get our maul going off the lineout. We were outwitted by the Italians (Nick Mallett) and we battled to adapt to their strategy of not committing. The AB’s disrupted the maul by getting players inbetween ours and fracturing the unit. They did it brilliantly, but again, we were not able to counter it.
I blame this inefficiency on poor coaching. Probably Gould’s department. The closest the WP pack came to a maul under him was the mauling they took in the front row at scrum time. I hope we have a plan for the maul this weekend because it is one of our strong points
16 Jul 2010, 10:49 am
That girl’s name Jane is a bit of alright!
Born in the Lower Little Hut part of NZ (wherever that might be!)
16 Jul 2010, 10:49 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-153: Has he teed off day two yet?
16 Jul 2010, 10:50 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-149: You massant push!
Everyone on this forum has a right to their opinion. You started the name-calling, up-yours boere etc. You are a hero behind your keyboard, but you wont have the balls the say “up-yours to me in my face. Thats what irritates me of you! Dont worry…if the evolutionary theory is correct, you will be human in a couple of million years. Then you will be called a boer as well.
Untill then, eat your pap en tik, rape your children etc…. I really couldn’t care less!
16 Jul 2010, 10:51 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-150: Agreed he wasnt the one that cost us the match as the rest of the team were clueless. But the 2 players I mentioned have the ability to turn tests and turn them quickly
16 Jul 2010, 10:54 am
@katman(katman)-161:
Has he ever!! He’s kicking the old ladies arse. Eleven under now…
16 Jul 2010, 10:54 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-162: What low-class background do you come from? Seriously, this is nothing but common white trash behaviour. Your family must be proud.
16 Jul 2010, 10:55 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-162:
Ban him
16 Jul 2010, 10:55 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-164: Are you following it online, or on telly?
16 Jul 2010, 10:55 am
We are going to win but it will be close and will happen when the super subs come on!
The Abs ambushed us but not again!
16 Jul 2010, 10:55 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-132: give us an equivalent run down of the previous springbok coaches CV, please!
16 Jul 2010, 10:57 am
Fokkit man daardie is lae-klas gedrag.
16 Jul 2010, 10:57 am
@JR – The Real Make The Circle Bigger(JayDaFiveOh)-156:
If you dont want to watch the game…. then dont… I personally dont care what you do on Saturday morning
16 Jul 2010, 10:57 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-169:
I’ll give you one after the Tri-Nations sweetie.
16 Jul 2010, 10:58 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-123:
Jeez Dawn what is your problem? I’ve not seen this entire thread but why you climbing into this oke? Because he’s criticising Januarie? He also criticises Morne in case you haven’t noticed. I agree with him. Januarie is way way off his best and should be benched. Does that make me a racist? I’d much rather seen Juan De Jongh there than Timotei but PdV obviously has no faith in his young players. So if you dare criticise a coloured or black player you’re suddenly a racist. Come on now this is getting pretty pathetic now.
16 Jul 2010, 10:58 am
@katman(katman)-167:
DSTV and BBC. Like their coverage.
16 Jul 2010, 10:59 am
This team needs more physicality.
Frans Steyn in place of Kirchner.
Juan De Jongh in place of Meisiekind.
Dewald Potgieter in place of Flouw (hurts me as a Stormer to say so, but Dewald’s better).
Beast in place of Gurthro.
Good move bringing back CJ. He’s been our best tight-head for several years now.
Chilliboy is not good enough to be on the bench. And as for Butch – seriously, WTF???
16 Jul 2010, 11:00 am
@Tisme(Tisme)-171: And personally I don’t give a cr@p about what you think so why don’t you just fck off.
16 Jul 2010, 11:00 am
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-155: I believe that Os gave the guys a bit of a going over because they fell asleep in the game. It has happened before – Brisbane 49-0.
We will be up for it big time this weekend, but I am concerned about the structures in the team that has disappeared all of a sudden. I just hope and pray we can find them and stick to them. We need JDV at 12 and soon.
If we do not find the structures, it will be like the Boks under Strauli – competitive for 20 mins with great passion, but then they fall apart because of a lack of structure
16 Jul 2010, 11:01 am
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-155:
Loving statistics as I do I always love it when prediction time comes around.
Last week wherever I read the majority of people predicted a Bok win, this includes normal blogger commenting like us and also so-called experts on rugby news sites.
One week later, with basically the same teams up against each other again barring two changes each side the majority of people now predict quite the opposite…
Fascinating no?
What has changed in a week?
The teams did not? (Not by much)
So why the massive shift in expectation?
Do we now suddenly believe a team well capable of beating the other a week ago are simply not good enough anymore – because of one result?
It suggests to me (like all bookies know) that predictions are mostly done emotionally and not rationally. (which is why the ******** make money).
From a completely rational point of view I predicted a Bok loss last weekend for a number of reasons, mainly because of the preperation going into the test but also around issues such as the intensity I felt both teams will take into the match.
For those same rational reasons, I am predicting a Bok win this weekend.
Of course any prediction can go wrong and I am fully aware of that, but the odds of us winning the test this weekend is a lot more favourable in my view than what it was last weekend where most expected us to win!!!
16 Jul 2010, 11:01 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-174: My employers won’t take kindly to me spending a couple of days in front of the telly. I need a handy, inconspicuous online score updater (like Cricinfo’s mini-feed).
16 Jul 2010, 11:02 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-157:
No not really cluthing (sic) at anything. Stating my case clearly.
The controvery around the scrummie position is all the talk in the media..not just with me.
His conditioning and skills over the past season has been a bone of contention on every media forum in the country for months and there is reason for that.
16 Jul 2010, 11:02 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-169:
Oh I thought for a sec you meant win-loss ratio.
Should I start with Kitch? By the way have you read that man’s biology?. Made me cry.
16 Jul 2010, 11:02 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-157:
Welcome to the logic of Saffa Rugby!!!
16 Jul 2010, 11:04 am
@katman(katman)-179:
I have the advantage of being a student… No employers.
16 Jul 2010, 11:04 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-168:
You on the bundy again Kev, don’t like your chances. The conditions will be the complete opposite of Loftus soggy, windy, wet etc Morne will fold as he did up north last year, the Bokke have no general to command their backline which is very ordinary.
16 Jul 2010, 11:04 am
Oh and on the Januarie issue: sure he’s not playing at his best, but there’s still no alternative. Kockott is a liability. Pretorius and Vermaak are good, but not good enough to be thrown in at this level yet. Duvenhage is nowhere near ready.
We’d better start looking, because FdP is already in slow decline and isn’t going to be around forever. Maybe Hougaard is the long-term solution.
Or maybe the Tiger Woods of Rugby will finally settle on one position. But you know what, if you lack BMT at flyhalf, you’re gonna lack it at scrumhalf as well.
16 Jul 2010, 11:04 am
@JR – The Real Make The Circle Bigger(JayDaFiveOh)-176:
my my a classy one you are!
My point is that if you are not interested in Bok rugby and wont watch the game the week-end then just dont… no need to tell us that are still interested in the game, we are thats why we read and blog here
So why dont you put your actions where your mouth is and leave now…. go now…. bye bye…. toodles….
aaaah thought so!
16 Jul 2010, 11:05 am
Louis ry wipplank.
16 Jul 2010, 11:07 am
@UnbeataBULL(UnbeataBULL)-162:
Read properly
I didn’t start it
Predawn did.
16 Jul 2010, 11:07 am
I didn’t think Hansen was cocky after last week. He was happy. Of course he was. He finally got his own back after being taught a lesson three times in a row last year.
Expect this new guy Francois Louw to suffer again. He’s not the goods. The new interpretations of the breakdown would not exactly favour Brussow, but like McCaw I expect he will adapt because he has the class to do so. Boks need Brussow back.
16 Jul 2010, 11:09 am
@The Old Enemy(BoksSecondBest)-189:
Amen.
16 Jul 2010, 11:09 am
PissAnt I agree mate maybe not bonus point with this team but a win
16 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
But he’s injured so no point dreaming. I’d settle for JDV at 12 and Aplon at wing.
16 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-178:
Did you just describe Grant10′s general approach to rugby analysis?
If so, you got it spot on.
16 Jul 2010, 11:13 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-193:
Hehe…
16 Jul 2010, 11:13 am
NZINCHINA u have to back ur team! don’t touch the bundies mate soon as I am on the piss u gotta call the coppers
16 Jul 2010, 11:14 am
Only thing that scares me is that my predictions last week and this week is exactly the same as what Keo’s was/is…
16 Jul 2010, 11:14 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-178:
I thought we’d lose by more to be honest. I fear for us this week. Could get ugly.
16 Jul 2010, 11:15 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-195:
LOL fair enough, yip you do thats why we are all on this site, the game will be much closer but the conditions will suit the Ab’s more than the Bokke.
16 Jul 2010, 11:16 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-192:
Aplon has slotted in well at the 15 man game. He’s so fast he doesn’t need to worry about being tackled.
de Villiers is needed in the midfield sooner rather than later.
16 Jul 2010, 11:16 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-146: I never said that Bulls supporters are racist. They will, however stand up for themselves when they’re insulted, like the boere was. This is not a racial thing. Its one person, with no braincells, trying to stir **** with racial remarks.
16 Jul 2010, 11:17 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-196:
Ja, that IS worrying. But look even Keo cannot be wrong all the time.
16 Jul 2010, 11:17 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-174: Hopefully another SA major winner. Yes i know it’s too soon but i just don;t see Ernie or Goose giving us another one any time soon.
Make us proud boytjie!
16 Jul 2010, 11:18 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-197:
I will repeat what I said to Tac sometime during the Super 14 about the Bulls.
Even great teams will lose a game every now and then, it is simply in the nature of things and rugby, the difference however is that great teams never lose the same way twice.
This Bok team is too good and too experienced to be as utterly kak as they were a week ago.
Again, does not guarrantee a win but I cannot see them lose the same way twice.
If they do, I will start to seriously question my own belief in the systems and players currently there for the first time since 2003.
16 Jul 2010, 11:18 am
NZINCHINA I disagree we are usually better at our conservative game plans, unfortunately
16 Jul 2010, 11:19 am
If we dominate the collission we will win.
If we don’t, we won’t.
16 Jul 2010, 11:19 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-201:
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then I suppose!
16 Jul 2010, 11:19 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-205:
Yup, quite simple really.
16 Jul 2010, 11:21 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-202:
I don’t know. Goose has lost his mojo, but a steady round from Ernie will put him right into contention. I quite fancy him to come good in the weather over the weekend.
16 Jul 2010, 11:24 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-203:
Fair point. I’d question the D i c k, Gold and de Villers combo more than anything else. Both our assistant coaches are proven failures as well so there is need for a considerable shake-up.
16 Jul 2010, 11:25 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-203:
I agree with your overall point. And I also feel we will win this weekend, which will totally turn the Tri Nations picture on its head, as WE will then be in the dominant position, having won away from home.
But I do feel there are signficant deficiencies that have gotten worse rather than improved since last year.
1. John Smit is even worse than he was last year. He should not be there.
2. January is a major problem at no.9. Sorry, but we just cannot get away from that. I repeat my statement that we have about 3 scrumhalves in SA better than the best All Black scrummie. And yet, the second best All Black scrummie is playing on Saturday, but he will STILL be better than the guy we have running out at number 9. That is just a ridiculous situation.
2. We need to sort out our loose forward combination by adding a true fetcher into the mix. If that means Schalk Burger has to drop to the bench, then so be it. But he is not a true no.6. Most likely, it will means Burger moving to no.7 and a fetcher moving into the no.6 position. At the moment, Stegman seems to be the only guy fitting the bill, with Brussouw not available.
3. We need a stronger bench that can actually have a positive impact in the second half. And here I mean the forwards replacemetns in particular. And the hooker replacement in double particular.
Those are the 3 most crucial areas that require immediate attention. Do that, and we can win this Tri Nations trophy for a second year running.
16 Jul 2010, 11:26 am
As our rugby continues to decline how do we stand a chance. We prepare to be taught another lesson in Wellington.
16 Jul 2010, 11:28 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-203:
Good point but lets not forget the 09′ Tri nations was the only period where the Bokke have dominated completely against NZ for a very long time so this is not new territory to be honest last year has put huge expectation on this side to beat NZ everytime they play them history tells us thats just not going to happen. All the comments have been on here about how the Bokke are too good to be beaten twicwe etc etc but the facts remain NZ has dominated the Bokke for so long so it is not more likely they will bounce back and win?
16 Jul 2010, 11:32 am
Wellington Whodunnit
Springbok preparations for the second test against the All Blacks in Wellington have taken a turn for the worse due to a series of midnight raids on the fridge in the team room.
Padlocks are usually placed on the fridge overnight in an effort (according to bok management) to prevent revenge food poisoning attacks by radical kiwi fundamentalists. Peter de Villiers described what he regarded as a very real threat-
“look before we left the Department of Imternational Co-operation warned us that radical al Qaeda cells were operating in New Zealand and that the boks would present a significant target. I mean obviously the boys love their food, just look at them.”
However inside sources who refuse to be named tell a different story. They claim that the break ins are the work of a shadowy cabal of bok senior players known as the Fat Boys Club.
Little is known of this clubs activities apart from their love of late night snacking and their ability to coach the boks in their spare time.
Bok wardrobe and makeup artist D idk “Tracy” Muir strongly rejected these claims saying “that’s nonsense. The guys are gutted I mean Rilki had a half eaten gatsby in there that means the world to him. He’d been saving it for a special occasion. Guthro has lost some mocha cupcakes that his wife had made and Cj’s ouma’s legendary koeksisters have disappeared.”
When approached for comment on the alleged Fat Boys Club bok skipper “little” John Smit could only manage a discreet burp. De Villiers rushed to his defence by saying that the skipper had held his team together during this testing time remarking wisely that ” you can look a gift horse in the mouth but you can’t male him drink water”.
Investigations continue and several boks have been looking visibly gaunt during the week. One thing is for sure, the boys in green have a mountain to climb as they look to get their campaign back on track. Fresh supplies have been couriered from home but will only reach the boks after the crucial Wellington encounter.
16 Jul 2010, 11:35 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-210:
1. I have been calling for John Smit to be sent on an extensive rest and rehabilitation program if we are serious to have him make it and captain the World Cup Boks next year.
2. Contrary to popular belief I have never been a Januarie fan, the only reason I can live with his selection is of course the absence of FDP firstly, and secondly for the fact that no scrummy has shown anything special in the Super 14 to suggest we have anything better at test level. Januarie got the call because of his experience at this level – and I said earlier in the week given his performances which were not hondkak (media blew this out of proportion) in the first 4 tests of the year I believe it is time for PDV to give another guy a shot to compete for the vacant #2 scrummy spot because in 4 tests Januarie did not make this his own. I am however in serious doubt if Ruan is this man (the most likely replacement) as I believe he is no-where near where he should be mentally for this game.
3. We are all on about the massive void FDP left in the team, but let me tell you another player as important that is not there at the moment is Juan. You know my theories on the specialist fetcher role and I still stick by it. For now Louw is not doing to badly but I agree the balance is not quite right.
4. I have never seen a Bok bench selected to have an impact on the game – we always talk about splits between forwards and backs but I would love to one day see us talking about splits on the bench with regards to positions on the bench selected for cover (possible injuries in key positions) and IMPACT players.
16 Jul 2010, 11:36 am
@gunther(gunther)-213:
HA HA HA. Don’t diss koeksisters you *******.
16 Jul 2010, 11:38 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-214:
Spot on, but Juan needs a few games before he’ll be physicaaly ready.
16 Jul 2010, 11:38 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-181: his what? Biology!!!!!!
no, don’t worry about kitch, give us the immediate former coach, start around 1997, what was he doing?
16 Jul 2010, 11:38 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-212:
The margins between the teams are so small, and yes that is why we call it predictions and not fact.
To expect a win is to belief there is a dominance of one team over the other and that is simply not the case anymore. It was for a long time, no-one will argue that but not anymore.
SA caught up in Super rugby and test rugby and both teams and countries are pretty equal where one bounce of the ball, or one call can decide a test match.
And this is what I love about test rugby, now it becomes a battle of the top two inches of the human anatomy and not the gap in levels of skills or talent between the teams.
16 Jul 2010, 11:39 am
The reliance on Smit is exacerbated by the fact that the reserve hooker cannot even make the Bulls bench.
So we have a double whammy on that front.
MAJOR weakness.
16 Jul 2010, 11:41 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-217:
**** all. You know and I know you have a point, but that doesn’t make PDV any better than he is.
16 Jul 2010, 11:42 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-219:
The coaching staff is making a massive mistake in Smit if it is to be believed that he is a hooker exclusively now again and they expect him to regain his conditioning for that through matches.
I regard this as pretty average man-management.
16 Jul 2010, 11:42 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-217:
Fine, biography. Multi-tasking male here, jeesh.
16 Jul 2010, 11:43 am
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-222:
Too much sport.
16 Jul 2010, 11:47 am
@gunther(gunther)-213:
i can’t
believe it
on the
other
hand
i can
who
was the
thief
then
ricki
or john
16 Jul 2010, 11:48 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-221:
Unlike the number 9 situation, we have hookers experienced and good enough to take his place currently while he is off on an extensive re-conditioning program.
16 Jul 2010, 11:59 am
@gunther(gunther)-213: No use flogging a dead horse in the case of Ricky and John. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. The trio would be complete were Humpty Dumbty Frans Steyn there. All we need is a big *** guy and they would be the Teletubbies
16 Jul 2010, 12:00 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-210: I agree with your points, with the exception of Steggman. I don;t see him offering any more than FLO, but I do agree that the combination in the loose forwards is wrong.
Some of the confusion come in in that Schalk wears 6 but does more of a 7′s job, and vica versa. I like Potgieter as a 7, with Flo at 6, which is a truer reflection of his role. I think Potgieter would compliment FLO better, who is a better bet as a fetcher IMO.
I re-iterate my views on Pierre. Great athlete but needs to get his hand more dirty. He’s not excused the rough stuff just because he is good at other things (which he is). He’s a forward and they all have to get stuck in.
16 Jul 2010, 12:01 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-225: Any tips on where to get hold of those “good and experienced hookers” you are talking about?
16 Jul 2010, 12:01 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-226: *** = g a y
16 Jul 2010, 12:02 pm
Have to say I don’t think it’s feasable to employ a game plan that is so heavily reliant on one player. Asking for trouble.
16 Jul 2010, 12:02 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-228:
Getting hold of them as you believe we don’t have any currently?
16 Jul 2010, 12:02 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-228: Kings Cross
16 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-227: Flo and Burger were awesome in the S14 as a combo. Could it be that they had an 8 that is a physical monster who played with them? I fail to see how numbers on a player’s back can confuse them? Surely they do not have to be reminded about the no on their back to know what they have to do. I know they say that forwards are dumb, but surely….?
16 Jul 2010, 12:05 pm
@RedMan(RedMan)-232: Divulge
16 Jul 2010, 12:08 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-230: What I have been saying for a long time. On a hiding to nothing if you ask me
16 Jul 2010, 12:10 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-227:
I followed the debate around Pierre yesterday with interest.
I have stated my views on this in the past as-well.
Fact is, an 8th man in my view needs to be a combination, or have a combination of skills of an athlete as a backline player, combined with the mongrel of a 6 and 7 loosie.
Those two points (amongst some other points which I am not going to care to mention now) are the most essential.
Pierre is an exceptional athlete, but currently lacks in the other department a bit (the grunt loosies bit).
Other 8′s in SA with the exception of Kanko leans more towards the grunt bit but are not close to the athleticism of Pierre.
So it is a call of balance and what you prefer in your team at any specific time and the style you employ.
The positive thing for Pierre is that the carthorses out there (nothing wrong with being a carthorse and I am not using it in a derogatory term) is that you cannot coach a carthorse to become an athlete, but you can coach an athlete the skills of a carthorse – the only thing Pierre needs to do is make the mental shift and then find a balance in his play dependent on the situation he plays in.
It is for that reason I will persist with him but if at times I need the hard grunt buggers then it will be a horses for courses selection of course.
Between Kanko and Pierre being similar, Pierre is simply the better athlete at the moment.
16 Jul 2010, 12:11 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-236:
It is also for that reason I will only consider one real option for 8th man with the eye on the World Cup.
Joe van Niekerk who in my view, is the most balanced wrt my post above.
16 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-227:
I agree with most of your post.
However, in my mind there is a fundamental difference between Francois Louw on the one hand, and the likes of Brussouw and Stegman – and even Potgieter – on the other.
Brussouw and Stegman’s speciality is to tackle the player, and then get up as quickly as possible, show the daylight thingy, and immediately contest for the ball. In other words, they serve both a defensive purpose, and a turnover role.
Louw, on the other hand, seems to wait just off the tackle point for someone ELSE to make the tackle, and then he darts in and steals the ball because he is on his feet while the tackled player is on the ground.
Major difference. in a Bok team where Smit is never in a position to make the tackle and where you have an eigthman that is not suited primarily to a defensive role, Flo is a luxury.
Guys like Spies now DO make more tackles, to fill the gap – as was evidenced by the stats from Saturday’s game where Spies made more tackles than Louw – but that removes their effectiveness in their primary roles. And it STILL did not allow Louw to make a SINGLE TURNOVER in the entire game.
So in this context, I would prefer a Stegman, Potgieter and of course Brussouw, who is a breakdown specialist who also does the hard work, and don’t just swoop into the tackle area after the tackle has been made to try and snatch the ball.
Anyway, that’s my analysis of the situation.
16 Jul 2010, 12:15 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-233: Yes they did, and i’m not referring to them being confused, but rather people who watch them. They judge the performance based on their pre-conceived ideas of what the number means to the job. A 6 must be a fetcher, a 7 a runner and grafter etc. I really rate Pierre but was very critical of him yesterday on the threads for the very reason you mention now. If we are to keep him then he needs to get more stuck in and then Flo can do what he does best.
Many of the Pierre fan brigade regard him so highly and think his so-called running skills are so valuable to the team that the rest of the loose forwards must all be subordinated into serving his amazing strengths.
I put it that the fetcher’s role is more important, as the turnover ball has the greatest potential to lead to scoring opportunities as defences have not got the time to organise effectively as they would in a set defensive phase of play. Most top team defenses are very good at shutting down the oppositions’ attacks most of the time. Turnover ball is a different story however. And we know that FLO is very good at turning over ball.
16 Jul 2010, 12:15 pm
which scrumhalf in the country can match the so-called mercurial kicking game of fourie du preez, when you’re done with that search, tell me how many times did ricky kick last saturday?
How many times did his opposite numbers kick? Are the all blacks scrumhalfs tasked to kick as well as dan carter or is carter the man to direct the all black game?
I think Morne has been living comfortably for too long basking under fdp’s kicking prowess, now it’s time he stepped up to be counted.
16 Jul 2010, 12:20 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-239:
FLO is good at turn overs but there is a point to consider in Tac’s post in how he does it. He is not necessarily the deck player Brussouw or Stegmann is and for the Stormers this year it actually did not matter because of the workrate and tackle counts of Schalk and Duane.
It is about the balance and I have to agree the balance in the Boks is not quite right.
The question now remains, how do you fix this?
Drop FLO for a deck scavenger or drop Spies for a more forward orientated number 8?
This decision will influence a number of other things too so it is not just about the two players but very much what type of game you play.
Dropping and selecting players is not always about rating one above the other, it is more to do with the combinations you have, the game you want to play and how they compliment one another’s game.
16 Jul 2010, 12:21 pm
Bookies heavily in favour of an All Black win tomorrow. Great odds on the Boks though for those who think they can take it!
Having looked at the weather report for Wellington it looks as though we could well be playing in the rain tomorrow too – something to consider.
16 Jul 2010, 12:26 pm
Transie
Rikki kicked 4 times and it was four times too many.
Morne needs to assume more control and rikki needs to give him more of the ball.
16 Jul 2010, 12:29 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-238: Ok fair points, yes the technique is different, and both types worked well this year for their respective teams because they had players who complimented their strengths.
The thing with Stegman that worries me is that his approach of “daylight” is prone to giving away more penalties, and is evidenced by the penalty count of both players when divided by the amount of minutes that each played. Last year it was definately the better tactic, this year i’m not so sure. In my opinion the reason it worked for the Bulls this year (and it did, there’s no arguing that) is that the rest of the Bulls tight five were very much physically present in the game, dominating even. I just don’t think that you will get that in an international game as much.
Anyway, I must say that i’ve been very critical of Pierre, but would still select him, but work hard with him this week to get him mentally ready for the weekend so that he is more commited to the rough stuff. It doesn’t just come down to tackles made, it’s the off the ball work in the rucks and tackle situation that is important as well.
16 Jul 2010, 12:31 pm
remove quota players and out of form players in the springbok team!!!
sa team for tomorrow should be:
1.steenkamp
2.liebenberg/botha-drop quota ralepelle and out of form smit
3.cj
4.rossouw-much better than botha anyway
5.matfield captain
6.burger
7.louw
8.spies
9.pienaar-get rid of ricky he benches for the stormers-quota
10.steyn
11.habana
12.de villiers
13.fourie
14.hougaard/aplon
15.kirchner but get f steyn back
16 Jul 2010, 12:32 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-241: I agree completely with what you said and yes, it’s always about combos, I’ve said this mant times in the past, in fact even advocating Danie at 8, whom i felt was very effective when schalk and juan played, as he complimented them really well.
I’m not disagreeing with much of what Tacitus is saying either, it’s a horses for courses approach, but as i’ve said and explained above, i think the deck player is not as effective in international rugby this year as he was in the past.
16 Jul 2010, 12:35 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-239: Sorry, I was being facetious – tired of all the serious debates I got involved in. Regarding Spies – we all know it is just a mental thing that he has to overcome in order to be a great 8. I believe he can do it and he will do it on Saturday.
I am a little concerned about Flo. He needs to up his tackle rate and he needs to be more physical in the tackle. In his defense, he did not turn over ball in the last test because Alan Lewis was very lenient as far as the tackled player having to leave the ball is concerned. This nullified turn-overs on both sides. I cannot recall McCaw making one turnover, but I may be wrong.
While I am on that subject, our most devastating runners when we get turnover ball are JDV and Mossie. They have to be brought together as a combo – we lose so much on attack and defense with any other combination
16 Jul 2010, 12:35 pm
Louis Oosthuizen shoots another great round of 5 under par 67 to go with his 7 under par 65 of yesterday for a 3 shot lead. And apparently there’s k@k weather coming in this afternoon. Lekker lekker.
16 Jul 2010, 12:35 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-246:
To that I do agree, their technique does not allow them to be and they are more of a risk to the type of scavenger role FLO plays.
Also, touching on my comment on the selection of the bench there is something to be said for the absolute devastation a player like Pierre can cause coming off the bench as an impact player.
Unfortunately supporters and the media still attach too much glory to a starting XV player and the players on the bench which is seen as 2nd best which is not the case anymore.
16 Jul 2010, 12:38 pm
Ag let me just get post 250 out of the way, I ******* hate going back a page to read a comment.
16 Jul 2010, 12:38 pm
@dieBok(dieBok)-245: Agree with your team entirely, but not with your allusions to quotas. John Smit or Chili has to play because they are the only two hookers we have there.
Why do you want to drop two fat boys in Smit and Ricky, but bring in another one in Frans Steyn? Ag nee, sies man
16 Jul 2010, 12:38 pm
The ruck laws have changed, and with it there had to be a change in the way one approaches the game and tactics used.
The Bulls and Stormers adapted well and look where it got them.
PdeV and his 2 coaches are once again slow on the uptake, and this year the luck he had last year with injuries and suspensions is not there.
16 Jul 2010, 12:42 pm
@Paws(Paws)-252: Oh contraire mon sieur, I think we are very lucky with the suspension of Bakkies Botha…very lucky indeed.
16 Jul 2010, 12:44 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-253:
On that, try and read the piece Peter Bills wrote on the Bakkies saga.
I generally detest his columns but I believe he was pretty spot on with this one.
16 Jul 2010, 12:44 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-247: yes, I also noticed that on Saturday. He took a real NH approach on the tackle.
As I’ve said before I do rate Pierre and FLO both and both played badly on Saturday. I’m backing them both to do better this weekend…
On the JDV and Mossie front I’m in total agreement. I suspect PDV is just trying to fair to WO, and at the same time sending a suble message to players who go overseas that their position is by no means guaranteed when they return…
16 Jul 2010, 12:46 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-250:
Thanks for getting rid of 250. I was actually about to post a reply, and rather clicked refresh again in the hope that someone would have posted comment 250. Which you did.
Anyway, I just think we need to look at our strengths – things that set us apart from the competition in various positions – and then build our team and our strategy around those exceptional strengths, rather than just trying to be average all around.
And in my view our exceptional strengths are, to name a few:
The best line out dominator in the world in Matfield;
The best breakdown specialist in Heinrich Brussouw;
Probably the greatest all round no 7 in the world, in Juan Smith;
The best attacking no.8 in the world, in Pierre Spies (yes, he is far from the best in other areas)
The best tactical scrumhalf in the world in Fourie du Preez
The most consistent tactical and goal kicking flyhalf of the last year and a half in world rugby.
So you take that, and then you build your team and your strategy around maximising these competitive advantages. Every team in the world can have a Lawrence Daglaglio type 8thman if they want. But no one else has a Pierre Spies.
Anyway, with the right combos, we can dominate in those key areas and with plenty of other good players to support them, we can be world beaters – like we were last year.
16 Jul 2010, 12:48 pm
Many optimistic bloggers according to the polls – Boks by 15+?
Is dit die brannas wat praat vanoggend?
No but in all seriousness, I also think the Boks can pull it off. We looked solid on attack in the opening exchanges of both halves, especially around the fringes and barging up with our forwards.
One of the problems was that we did not accelerate the momentum of our fringe plays and distributed a resulting slow ruck ball to the backline. It was almost as if we tried to stay upright in the tackle on second and third phases to start a mauling movement instead of creating a ruck.
This strategy could bear fruit but we need to spice up our attack and distribute quicker ruck ball wide more often depending on how many of their defenders we can vacuum into the maul. We also need to attack the blindside a bit more and bring Habana and De Villiers into play who can link up with a supporting loosie.
If we manage to protect our ball a bit better we are definitely in with a shout. The boys will be desperate to prove their metal.
16 Jul 2010, 12:51 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-256: Sure but as you and i have said many times, if you dominate the tight five, the rest falls into place so much easier.
But I agree with you on FDP, Vic, Juan and Morne. I need to be re-convinced on Heinrich, as I feel we don’t know how he will return from a very bad injury, or if he’ll be able to adapt to the new interpretaions (and until we see him play we won;t know for sure), but I’m hoping that it’ll be business as usual for him.
16 Jul 2010, 12:51 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-256:
I agree with everything apart from Brussow for the only reason that I am yet to see him play under the new interpretations so I guess I will reserve my judgment on that.
The only real concern I have with all this, and where I have patience in testing other, new combinations is that I don’t want to be totally screwed when we lose someone like FDP and Juan as we did now.
A week ago I said Bok rugby is currently in a good place in my view, and I still maintain that, I just hope PDV and everyone else do not panic with one or two losses now and lose perspective of what we are trying to do.
For that I am suggesting, and hoping that in his mind, PDV knows exactly who his best team is and who he wants to take to the RWC next year and is currently only busy sorting out contingencies if there is a crisis or injury.
16 Jul 2010, 12:52 pm
@willievz(willievz)-257: Yeah we’re good enough to take it, we just have to play the way we can. It’s clear the guys didn’t do themselves justice last week, hence all the frustration.
16 Jul 2010, 12:54 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-259: PDV knows his best 15, of that I am sure.
I doubt that he knows his best 22 though.
16 Jul 2010, 12:54 pm
@katman(katman)-248:
I hope that Irish guy wins it.
16 Jul 2010, 12:54 pm
Pissant
Agreed peter bills grates my balls.
16 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-262: Who, Rory McIlroy?
16 Jul 2010, 13:02 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-256:
What was your prediction before last weeks game?
16 Jul 2010, 13:02 pm
Anycase folks it has been fun, but I am off – good luck to all the teams tomorrow.
16 Jul 2010, 13:07 pm
Oh how this site has changed since last week.
16 Jul 2010, 13:11 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-265:
I didn’t make a prediction.
Personally, I was uncomfortable with the over the top enthusiasm displayed by the journos. I thought we would win, but narrowly.
I think this current Bok 22 is good, but not great. And I think the current All Black team is average at best.
Given that we are playing away, that should even things out to a 50/50 situation.
If we had Du Preez, Bismark on the bench, Juan Smith and Brussouw – I would pick us to win and do so with confidence.
If we had Heyneke Meyer as coach, I would do so with even more confidence.
Now, my prediction for tomorrow is that it can go either way.
16 Jul 2010, 13:13 pm
Everyone always thinks that a fetcher is only there to make turn overs and steals but his most important role is actually securing possession.
Brussouw is in a league of his own and one of the only players to out class Mccaw in test rugby. Anyone that thinks the new laws will mean that we can play without Brussouw at the World Cup is delusional.
16 Jul 2010, 13:19 pm
BOKS 22
AB’s 18
16 Jul 2010, 13:19 pm
My Dream World Cup 15
1. Beast
2. Smit (C)
3.
4. Danie (Bakkies will need to prove his discipline if he wants in)
5. Victor
6. Brussouw
7. Juan
8. Schalk (Needs to play no.8 in the Super 15 with Vermuleun at 7)
9. Fourie
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. F Steyn
13. Fourie
14. JPP
15.
2 key positions that need to be filled which is a major concern. (Sorry just dont like the idea of F Steyn at fullback in a world Cup although if we cant find someone then Jean at 12 and Steyn at 15 but would prefer not to)
16 Jul 2010, 13:23 pm
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-271: Dude that is basically the 2007 World Cup team! (Brussow instead of Wikus).
16 Jul 2010, 13:29 pm
In the cyclops world in which some New Zealand rugby followers dwell, the All Blacks will repeat their vast Eden Park-winning margin tomorrow.
For those with greater peripheral vision, this looms as a much tougher contest than a week ago.
Why? There are a multitude of reasons. Last Saturday was a hell of a beating – a 20-point thumping, though it was well short of the record 52-16 walloping they delivered in Pretoria in 2003.
The All Blacks will do well to play or be allowed to play to the standards they showed in this start to the Tri-Nations. The Tri-Nations champions, who include the core of the Bulls side which won the Super 14 crown this season and others who annexed the last World Cup, are not a dud team.
They had a dud game in Auckland, losing 32-12, while the All Blacks were in a zone to which they would love to return on a more regular basis.
The Boks lost their way, they looked bereft without the tactical leadership of halfback Fourie du Preez and, while he will not reappear tomorrow at the Cake Tin, it would be foolish to think the Springbok fire will not.
They looked a shade out of kilter at Eden Park, perhaps as a result of arriving late for the test, perhaps with some complacent hangover from the Super 14.
And while they were dealing with those issues, the All Blacks were crisp, they were intense, a half-a-metre quicker to each piece of play than the Boks.
So what will the old enemy do tomorrow? They should have held a prayer meeting and thanked their Almighty that they have a chance to redeem themselves, instead of accompanying Bakkies Botha on his return trip of shame.
Like all good teams they will face each other, ask where they can each improve and demand more.
Men such as captain John Smit and Victor Matfield are closing in on 100 tests, fellow forwards CJ van der Linde, Schalk Burger and Danie Rossouw have each clambered over the half-century mark. In the backs, Jean de Villiers, Jaque Fourie and Bryan Habana have also busted that tally, with halfback Ricky Januarie closing in, too.
Stacks of experience, though some may be a little weary or one-dimensional, such as Burger.
It is the spine of the side where the test will come, the 8-9-10 axis which has proved such a concern for other sides trying to crack the big-time consistently. Pierre Spies is a dynamic athlete with the ball, but not quite so effective when he is forced into repeated sets in the defensive line. His work-rate does not match that of one of the rising men in New Zealand rugby, Kieran Read.
Januarie is a combative, serviceable halfback. He stacks up strongly against Piri Weepu or Jimmy Cowan. But he is no Fourie du Preez, the hub of the Bulls’ and Boks’ strategy for so long. The absence of du Preez’s kicking and defensive impact is most noticeable.
Outside, there is Morne Steyn, a metronomic place-kicker and punter when he has time and opportunity. At Eden Park his possession was restricted, the All Blacks forced him to hurry his work and he was put off.
Springbok coach Peter de Villiers, his assistants, Smit and the senior players have a significant job to repair the damage from Eden Park.
That should not surprise De Villiers, who predicted this year: “We have to show improvements from 2009. We have to evolve, too, because what worked for us last year will not work in 2010. That’s a certainty.”
If his words had the air of pre-season window-dressing, they took on a new hue after last week.
Habana thought the Boks had to improve by about 40 per cent if they were to cut it with the All Blacks. Hyperbole perhaps, but the tourists have to improve everywhere.
They should have known they could not bully the All Blacks, they had to find more subtle ways of breaking down the defences than trying to smash through them.
Variety would be a start, but then that has not been a regular Springbok companion down the years. Instead, they will arrive at the Cake Tin tomorrow night with more heat, more steel, more determination.
They will back themselves, they have not had their confidence punctured. Dented, yes – but not broken. And they know they can save this mini-tour of Australasia with a result tomorrow.
They can achieve that with suffocating pressure, but the All Blacks have shown how quickly they can respond and punish mistakes. They want a double result just as badly which makes this test even more intriguing than the Eden Park encounter.
By Wynne Gray | Email Wynne
16 Jul 2010, 13:31 pm
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-272: If only Wikus had more game time in 07, he was playing a brilliant fetching role and had a blinder in the opening game against England, Fourie could seriously run riot with such quality ball.
I was praying White would play Wikus in the semi and final or at least have brought Wikus on sooner in the final. Had Wikus had more game time in the final, we would have scored 2 tries at the end for sure. He did 2 turnovers in five minutes
16 Jul 2010, 13:33 pm
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-274: JA I totally agree – I felt for Wikus, he worked so hard and “deserved” some more game time.
But we dont see all the stats and know what the coaches know.
At least Wikus is back in SA (if only to suffer for the Lions again).
He is another unsung hero
16 Jul 2010, 13:34 pm
@Harder-Faster(Harder-Faster)-270: From your keyboard to god’s ears china!
16 Jul 2010, 13:38 pm
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-275: Je I dont know, Jake just cant see the value in a fetcher which has always been my gripe with him and now Pdv. Jake even said last year that he wouldnt have played Brussouw! Seriously what the F
16 Jul 2010, 13:43 pm
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-277: hahaha I know, I thought the same when Jake was quoted with that.
But then we know Jake never valued “fetchers” for SA.
At least Wikus is big enough to also be a ball-carrier, like Flouw.
I cant comment cos I wouldnt presume to know a 10th of what Jake or PDiv know about rugby…
But Brussow saved our @rses against the Lions
16 Jul 2010, 13:44 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-268:
“Average at beat”
Lets face it, you could be one of the journalists on here that you say are so poor
16 Jul 2010, 13:46 pm
@THEBokFan(bokfan1)-278: and the tri nations
16 Jul 2010, 13:48 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-268:
@chch(chch)-279: I agree with Tac. Its like in 2002/3 if the Boks happened to beat NZ or Aus, you know it was a massive collective effort by an average Bok team.
The ABs got the collective effort right last Saturday, but they are not a better team than the Boks.
Scary thing is, the Boks have been woken up (thanks ABs) and will get their collective effort up and running again tomorrow…
16 Jul 2010, 13:50 pm
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-280: Yeah – altho there I woudld say it was thanks to ANOTHER player that was not actually picked, but fortuitously got into the team – Morne Steyn.
But of course, Brussow had to win the ball for Morne to kick it
16 Jul 2010, 13:54 pm
@chch(chch)-279:
Err.. I hope that typo between the quotations marks isn’t what you are referring to, because then I would suggest you brush up on your reading skills. I may make typing errors when I type too fast, but that was not one of them.
As for my view of the All Black team, well, it is my honest view.
I rate the All Blacks as our toughest international adversaries, but this All Black team doesn’t have much more than Mccaw and Carter.
It is not a shadow of Fitzpatrick’s team. It is probably on a par with Taine Randell’s team.
16 Jul 2010, 14:16 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-268:
“……………..And I think the current All Black team is average at best.”
Tictactoe,
Richie’s little band of over achievers,
thumped Your Lot by 20 points.
Do You know how many times Your Lot,
have beaten Ours by 20.
I’ll give you a clue……………it’s less than 1.
16 Jul 2010, 14:19 pm
Oosthuizen leading the Open ! Never made the cut and now he’s the man theyre all chasing. Tricky conditions today too.
Love the Open !
16 Jul 2010, 14:23 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-285: Man it would be great if he won, if not him then Daly can have it
16 Jul 2010, 14:30 pm
@Bok fan(Bok fan)-286:
I’d like Daly to win as well.
What greatness could he have achieved,
if he had not wasted his best years.
16 Jul 2010, 14:32 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-287:
We all like Daly because he appeals to our Inner-slob.
Nah, Im rootin and tootin for McIlroy, what a player.
16 Jul 2010, 14:36 pm
@gunther(gunther)-263:
truth hurts huh ?
16 Jul 2010, 14:42 pm
@willievz(willievz)-257: Ek stem – die ouens het nogal goed gelyk vir kort tydperke. Dis nou mooi geanalieseer en hopelik sien ons n bietjie baie meer “spice” van die ouens more
16 Jul 2010, 14:43 pm
Olivier, Januarie and Kirchner are weak links in this team
De Villiers and Fourie are regarded as the best centre partnership in rugby so why are they constantly broke apart by PDV last year it was Jacobs now its Olivier. They both have around 50 test tries total between them. Olivier has 1 test try against the mighty Italy, even Jacobs boasts more than he does.Putting the best centre in the world on the wing is pointless as the Boks dont give their wingers the ball, look at Habana he should have about 50 test tries by now but he doesnt as he never recieves the ball so again why put JDV on the wing as he simply wont get the ball and if thats the case then why cant Olivier go on the wing?
Januarie is no Du Preez as we all know but i guess there is no one else
Kirchner is no Steyn and never will be so again why is he getting in ahead of him i even rate Jantjes higher than him
It is these three weak links that will lose the Boks the game tomorrow
16 Jul 2010, 14:50 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-241: The hooker selection should be a key factor in deciding on the loose trio makeup.
16 Jul 2010, 14:50 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-287: Daly had all the talent in the world
16 Jul 2010, 14:55 pm
DQuinn
“best centre combination” says whom – Safas ?! Keo ? KKK ?
believe what you like but you were much closer to the answer when Ques’ing why Habana isn’t already siting on 50+ tries. Fourie couldn’t pass a urine sample, he’s a natural 12. JdV is a fine link player and excellent hands, but I”d almost consider swapping them around. But Fourie @ 12 and de Jongh @ 13 could be tasty. Habana meanwhile will have to feed on meagre rations of intercepts and spilled garryowens – a modern day rugby Greek-tragedy
16 Jul 2010, 15:11 pm
Black pant
His recent article on bakkies was a fair one.
Overall he still grates my balls.
What is he?
A saffa?
A kiwi?
A pom?
16 Jul 2010, 15:14 pm
The Boks are gonna get SMASHED again with the same team
Its a wonder we have won the world cup twice with such
mentally backward coaches
Kitch for me was the only great coach we have ever had
How the hell do you beat the all blacks with the same team that got murdered by 21 points a week ago????????????
BOKS will lose bank on it
16 Jul 2010, 15:17 pm
Young Gun
He’s a Pom. Writes as an independent for the Independent (UK) and gets picked up by NZ Herald. He just write a damning article in today’s spread about cost-of-living in NZ (high) so he’s not afraid to call a spade a farken spade. But I reckon he’s generally fair. Even if he is a pasty lily-livered hanky-hatted Pomgolion.
16 Jul 2010, 15:56 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-283:
Surely Tacticus it is too early to say what this current All Blacks team is.
You’re earlier suggestion that Juan Smith is the best all round 7 in the game is silly. It is one thing to dislike McCaw, but given his record to suggest he isn’t as good as Juan Smith lacks a bit for credibility.
Would be interested in your thoughts on Spies please. When if ever will we all get to see him living up to his press in tri nations rugby? He is beginning to look more and more like a flat track bully, capable of impressive sprints against lesser opponents in Super 14 etc, but fundamentally not a test number 8.
16 Jul 2010, 15:57 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-294:
I would say by looking at their strike rate against the top teams that they are the best, how many tries have they scored against NZ,AUS? countless. i do agree That fourie at 12 may be better option though as De Villiers pass is very good. I also agree Habana in recent years has been reduced to a spectators position with the Boks lack of ambition in attack.
Ive said it before as well as good as the first 2/3rds of last year were there were signs that the Boks were capable of poor performances too. how many games did the Boks leak lots of tries that they shouldnt have that made a number of the scores a lot closer than they should have been.
16 Jul 2010, 16:12 pm
Put Zane Kirchner back in the Simpsons!
16 Jul 2010, 16:18 pm
If you, on purpose, beyond belief, psychotically, utterly incomprehensibly LEAVE OUT Frans Steyn for The Simpson, then you have got to be a kak coach. Jake White created these Boks and the Snor could of ridden the wave of his success for as long as he wanted….but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Ricky April, “Simpson Kirchner”, Ralapelle and all the other rascist selections have stuffed up a squad that truly is the greatest ever Springboks.
I think we need to flour bomb the tests here in South Africa with big NO RASCISM banners outside the stadia for the world to see the disgrace that is South African rugby.
Get over the colour thing your rascists and let the best play the best, for sake of human rights.
16 Jul 2010, 16:41 pm
@The Old Enemy(BoksSecondBest)-298:
Dont forget that a SA-7 equates to a NZ-6, therefore a blindside. Juan is an excellent player, no doubt. Kaino had a thumping Test at EP but still a bit inconsistent; the 1 thing you can say about J.Smith is that his quality is high in most matches. But Kaino can match/better any man on his day, he’s technically better than Burger without the out’n'out reckless self-disregard which is Burgers strength.
Ignore any jibes here about McCaw. He’s been called everything from a ‘has-been’ to a ‘cheat-Suarez’ here for years. Of course, theyd have him in their team in a flash, who wouldnt.
16 Jul 2010, 16:43 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-302:
Lose the Crowded House at the games please.
SO 1980′s.
16 Jul 2010, 16:56 pm
@dquinn25(dquinn25)-299:
I rate Fourie as a player but, simply, not as a top 13. Yes, I know he scores tries from that position and that JdV does from 12 too (mostly because he’s so offside that intercepts fall in to his lap). But this does not necessarily make them a ‘great combination’. For that, you need complimentary skills so they can not only shine themselves, but that the team around them can too. For me, a top 13 should be judged on how many tries his 11, 14 and 15 are scoring, how many men he is drawing to put them away and how clever he is at coaxing more defenders to create holes for others. Whilst JdV is a selfless player, a great team man, Fourie is a selfish farker who loves the individual glory of scoring tries above all else. Yes, great, he has scored some sensational ones too. But how many times have we seen him drawing 2-3 defenders before slipping away a clever pass to his outsides ? Very few. And all the more criminal given the awesome pack that Boks have had for 2-3 seasons, how much front foot ball that would result in carving any team up. Hence why Boks have only won matches by 10pts or less when they completely dominated opposition up front, thereby leaving the gate open for inferior teams to sniff a chance.
But if Dear Jacques “still thinks he’s the Best”, then thats nice for him and his boot sponsors. But I happen to think Habana is THE best in his position and the fella sure aint got many chances to prove it. If he had a classic centre like Conrad Smith feeding him, by far a better 13 (albeit by no means the perfect example), then Habana would be scoring tries for fun and the Boks would be hammering opposition, not teasing them.
Fourie – a very good 13. But, potentially, a great 12 who would get over the advantage line with his strength and thereby creating momentum and space for his outsides to capitalise on. He would also make an excellent winger given how greedy and narcisstic he is.
16 Jul 2010, 16:59 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-303:
Hear Hear, Peaches !!!!!
in fact, lets lose ALL music at rugby matches – cant stand it. Im there to be entertained by on-field action, I dont need any reminders thru the tannoy thanks.
btw – it may not be Crowded House but repeated replays of Slice of Heaven by Dave Dobbyn, Peaches. Great song, in the privacy of my own lounge or sizzling sausies on the barby.
16 Jul 2010, 17:36 pm
@Luster Johannsen(Luster Johannsen)-301:
But this selection policy offers plenty of entertainment and great hilarious moments!
If you watched Brad Thorn manhandled that creep Januarie like a gogo stuck to his neck, or how the Boks maul was driven back last 8 minutes (twice) where Chilicoy suddenly ejected upward unintentionally while Steenkamp was stampeded, that was priceless!
Best part is the after game interview with the Village drunk though
Look at the lighter aspect of the quota reality
16 Jul 2010, 17:53 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-304:
I agree Fourie is ball greedy, the only time i can think of JDV being ball greedy was when they played England in 2006 and he went for the line himself instead of passing off to ndungane which would have sealed the game at 25-6 instead England won 23-21. Olivier is not an international standard player that is my main gripe his strike rate is terrible he and Willemse are two players that should never have amassed the caps they have. De jongh should be there in his place at least. And why isnt Aplon on the wing with DV back at centre it just doesnt make sense.As for the critics of Aplons size how many tries did Paulse score for the Boks? again countless. Dean Hall was a pretty big guy and he was useless yet everyone thought he was f–king wonderful because he weighed more than the magical 100kgs
16 Jul 2010, 18:58 pm
Snotklap No.2 on the cards and the bigger the better, smack the dreaming dreary eyed daydreamers right from out their neanderthal stone age comfort zone.
16 Jul 2010, 19:55 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-304:
You’ve just stated what I’ve been saying about Fourie for quite a while, which is why I rate BOD as the pre-eminent 13 in world rugby. He creates space for those around him through his running lines, both on and off the ball.
16 Jul 2010, 20:27 pm
Been watching the Cheetahs/Griquas game. I reckon Juan Smith has a good two months to go before we can even think of looking at him. He is about as physical as the ladies in a beauty paegent during the evening gown routine. There the wife has actually helped me find the right words. He does well, the little that he does. The only plays he has been involved in has been standing off and the ball coming to him from his own players or the opposition, and he has slapped two balls down in the lineout. We will be bringing him back at our peril in the Tri nations home leg. He needs another five six CC games at least.
16 Jul 2010, 20:43 pm
And then these clowns commentating reckon he has carried the ball up nine times. FFS, If he gained 5 meters in those nine carries it’s is a lot. That’s our problem in SA. Wishful thinking of the worst kind by those that should know better and then a bunch of gullibles grab at the straws proferred. In fact, I’m gonna srick my neck out and say Juan won’t be back without some kind allowances from the coaching staff. His fire is all but gone. Sorry, but that is the reality of it. Dice it any way you like.
16 Jul 2010, 20:44 pm
srick=stick
16 Jul 2010, 20:48 pm
@David(David)-309:
Aye, he’s an absolute joy to watch isnt he. My favourite 13 of the modern era, and the best post-Buncey. Better skill set for a 13 than Bunce altho Frank could probably have slotted in to the pack too given he was an absolute mongrel.
I think Kahui has it all – superb hands, speed, size, mongrel – just doesnt have the luck with injuries unfort. Shows how much luck can say in the career of a player because they all need a solid run of matches to prove their worth at Test level.
BOD is a genius and the benchmark. Mortlock before him was awesome too, but he’s also had his day.
16 Jul 2010, 21:04 pm
So of the 809 votes lodged on Keos poll, 65% believe that the Boks will win and the vast majority of those believe by a comfortable margin 8-15+.
Which means that its all doom’n'gloom suicidal **** in the aftermath of defeat – or as Keo might say “a Nation in mourning” – but 24hrs out from kickoff the meds have finally kicked in with prozac winning the day along with the Boks.
psychologists would have a field day.
16 Jul 2010, 21:05 pm
is ‘c r a p’ REALLY a word worth monitoring ?!
16 Jul 2010, 21:10 pm
@catleya(catleya)-310:
Saw him last week against W.P. also and he was as pow(d)er-puff as Johnson’s Baby Powder.
Life’s events have happened (which he wishes did not) whilst he was busy with rugby business.
He obviously has a different and better perspective about where rugby, at his age, fits into the scheme of things.
Clearly his desire has to be less and that explains his powder puff performance. The ravages of life and TIME does that to/for a human being.
16 Jul 2010, 21:21 pm
@ET(ET)-316: Look . the man was a great servant to the Boks, but anyone with a keen eye cannot but agree with you. And then I hear Toks on Afrikaans commentry saying that he is back to his brilliant best, and is echoed on English by Andy Capp and Bros. He is clearly being talked up by these wankers. I’m afraid it is a bridge too far, and try and push him or rush him back even at 50% and he will just break down.
16 Jul 2010, 21:32 pm
@catleya(catleya)-311: my thing is smit gets outplayed by mealamu 10-0, nobody talks about it because captain fantastic absolved everyone when he uttered the words “we just didn’t show up”!
Those words stopped every analyst from going into detail as to what was wrong with the team and as to which players played kak…
16 Jul 2010, 21:41 pm
@catleya(catleya)-317:
I have said since May 2008 that for most , if not all, of the “2007 WC seniors” the 2011 WC is a bridge too far.
At best I could not question their collective desire(cranial/cerebral thing) to win, for the 2009 BL tour, as they ALL had a point to prove but beyond 2009 my knowledge of physiology saw huge holes in those who argued for and were carrying them on a wave of blinding emotion to the 2011 WC in N.Z. nontheless(how many teams consistently beat the ABs at home?).
And now is it too late to rebuild around some acceptable, decent experience?
16 Jul 2010, 21:48 pm
Hilarious
so ‘c r a p’ is word considered too outrageous for the contributors of a rugby blog
but
@catleya(catleya)-317:
wankers is just fine and dandy
16 Jul 2010, 21:51 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-314: BP you should know by now, not to take those polls too seriously boet. Or are you raising it merely to engage some fun?
16 Jul 2010, 21:57 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-318: never had an off day Transie? Get real boet. I’d line up behind those that propose that he take a break and get himself properly conditioned. I think that’s pretty obvious. But to denigrate the man to the point of disrespect is disingenuous in my very humble opinion. And I think that is exactly what you are doing. It reflects on your poorly.
16 Jul 2010, 22:01 pm
@Luster Johannsen(Luster Johannsen)-301: “Rascist”? Badly misspelt. Only use one S.
16 Jul 2010, 22:05 pm
The Old Boys Club are looking out for one another. I’d love to see us play old fashioned trials before the end of the year, but that is wishfull thinking, and you will see Juan will be picked for the first home Trinations game in his current form. Barring our props the rest of the forwards have already been filled in in ballpoint pen on the team sheet. They are untouchable.
16 Jul 2010, 22:08 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-323: Tackles one realizes it irritates you to the point of distraction but do you not have anything better to do. Frankly I couldn’t be bothered to check my spelling, since it is a complete waste of time in this environment. Perhaps you should look around for a life better suited to higher learning.
16 Jul 2010, 22:09 pm
@catleya(catleya)-324: do you not think there is a ‘trial’ going on here? JdV on the wing being a case in point.
16 Jul 2010, 22:11 pm
with respect to Cat and Tackles, this place is like a bloody morgue. Anyone would think it was a friday night and there were better things to do.
16 Jul 2010, 22:14 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-321:
its a point of interest, worth noting. It seems like people here say one thing and think another. Either that or people have just been ‘covering their bases’ all week by all this surreptitious negative nonsense but believe that somehow they can will their team to victory via some insignificant means of a poll.
Im almost offended that you would think I was merely mischief-making. What kind of Kiwi do you think I am ?
16 Jul 2010, 22:16 pm
I’ll be avoiding the first sign of madness then. cheers to myself.
16 Jul 2010, 22:17 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-322: let it reflect how ever you want it to, my point is it absolved everyone! The WHOLE team had an off day, is that it?
Spies had an off day, morne had an off day etc…but let’s get on ricky & kirchner’s gat because ricky can’t kick like fdp and kirchner was solid without being incisive? Is that how it works?
16 Jul 2010, 22:18 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-329: Tassies -Hi…..I will hold my hand up and tell you I have put AB’s to win!! Although it sticks in my throat!
16 Jul 2010, 22:23 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-327:
Them were the days. Drink the companys’ fridge dry, hit the town full of verve and swerve, knock back a few unrecognisable but strangely erotically-named shots of liquid evil, hit on some poor unsuspecting wench with your best line of self-humouring wit, suddenly remember to answer the desperate pleas of a raging hunger by raiding the nearest burger joint before waking up with a filthy schteaming hungdog what seems like minutes later.
Ah yes. Until nuptial vows came along and wrestled the beast from the jaws of single bliss…aaaaaaaaAAAGH !
16 Jul 2010, 22:24 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-328: BP what do you take me for boet? I trust you more than my own Saffa brother. Not too many folk in my immediate sphere of influence give the Boks a hope’s whisker tomorrow morning. We’ll be making an effort to watch the game over a hearty breakfast be sure. But some of us are realists. AB’s by 10 or thereabouts. This is not a Boks side I’d go to the last battle with. Too many holes. Back three not a unit. Januarie a liability. Fat Cappie(with the greatest respect). Trial centre pairing. JdV on right wing. Average FB. and we can go on. Naa. Your boys’ll take this one methinks.
16 Jul 2010, 22:28 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-332: hahahaha that’s so crazy sounds like something i did two weeks ago
16 Jul 2010, 22:34 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-330: look Transie lets get this out in the open. ALL your posts take on a ‘colour’ excuse the pun of racial persecution. Yes, there are those who play that game but the vast majority couldn’t give a s.h.i.t about the colour. To make my point, I used to support Ricky’s selection because it was warranted. I’ve changed my opinion. He’s now c.r.a.p and a liability because he simply slows down ball to the backline. He’s also unfit. Its pretty bloody obvious. Kirchner is solid if unspectacular. I don’t have a problem with his selection but I wish he’d do something extraordinary and his line kicking needs serious attention. There are 2/3 WHITE players in the side which are just as suspect. So it’s pretty much quits. Gets over this need to protect your kin and deal with everyone on the same merit. I’d like to believe that I do.
16 Jul 2010, 22:38 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-332: could not(said with absolute conviction) describe it better myself, after the hundredth attempt and serial editing, with help from Andrew Lloyd.
16 Jul 2010, 22:41 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-335: i’m not protecting any kin, i’m just asking at what point is there responsibility from all the players? On the same saturday of the test francois louw (note he is WHITE!!!!!) was given a rating of 3 and the rest of the “old boys” were given 6. how does that fu.cken work?
16 Jul 2010, 22:43 pm
@carol(carol)-331: hullo Carol. Last time we ‘spoke’ could be measured in months. Glad to see you’re in good spirit. All is forgiven. I have the AB’s to take it by 10. For no other reason than, I believe it. How’s the sunshine? You really don’t want to be down here at this time. Trust me.
16 Jul 2010, 22:46 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-337: made no sense whatsoever. How they can rate him a 3 god alone knows. The whole team rated 3 in my opinion. The forward pack really didn’t arrive. Louw was a kid amongst men and really couldn’t be expected to take a lead when his seniors were being hammered. So I absolutely agree on that point.
16 Jul 2010, 22:50 pm
Im really starting to fall for this guy – why is it always the props ?! I hope he can back up tomorrow what looked like an early coming-of-age at Eden Park, what a snotting he gave run-out-of-Steemkamp; this from todays NZ Herald:-
“Schoolmates who laughed at Owen Franks’ physique at Christchurch Boys High must be thinking very differently now. They will certainly want to refine their opinions if they meet at a school reunion.
Franks always wanted to be a footy player and preferably a prop. He was not really interested in school work but his frame refused to budge for his sport.
He was only 75kg in the fifth form, when he first tried out for the 1st XV. Franks missed selection and recalled he was taunted about his failure. He made it the next season and in his final year slapped on enough weight to bend the scales at 105kg – and any schoolmate who smirked at his sporting aims. “They used to laugh at me at lunchtime as I ate boiled potatoes and chicken and stuff like that, trying to put on weight,” Franks recalled.
“They thought I was a bit crazy but then they started to see why I did it. They started to accept me a bit more.”
Franks is now 22 and 119kg of refined power, who squats 250kg and cleans 150kg on the bar at the gym he and All Blacks brother Ben operate in Christchurch.
“I do pretty basic stuff.” he said. “I don’t get sucked into too much of the new-age training like Swiss balls and that stuff. Bench press, squat, power cleans, that’s my sort of thing. I’ve been doing a bit of yoga lately, I’ve found that helps get rid of tightness.”
Franks said he was a uninterested high school student. “You know how teachers say, ‘Don’t put all your eggs in one basket’ – well that’s what I did,” he recalled.
“Being from a working-class background, I always think I had the work ethic to be a footy player and I hope it pays off.”
16 Jul 2010, 22:50 pm
last saturday’s forwards pack rating IMO:
Guthro
16 Jul 2010, 22:54 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-304: You’re right: Fourie would be a great wing. It’s a wonder the coaches can’t see it. JDV was a pretty awesome wing a few years back when he was forced to play there. Hopefully he can rediscover that this weekend. I also hope the kick and chase talk is a ruse. Januarie + kick + chase = happiness for you. And let’s be honest: neither of us want that. I’m sure you prefer being miserable.
16 Jul 2010, 22:56 pm
I’ll try to finish:
Guthro 4 nothing spectacular and was part of the stuff going backwards
John 2 part of the above and blew the lineouts at his own admittance
Jannie 3 part of the above and contributed little else
Matfield 4 part of the above but at least attempted to defend
Bakkies 1 just a liability
Schalk 5 did just enough but to be fair was part of a disjointed mob
Flo 4 what did one expect from him
Spies 2 not a starter. Not a No 8. Impact player only
Average 3
That’s my opinion. I hope they up their game tomorrow by 100% to a six and they’ll only lose by 10.
16 Jul 2010, 23:08 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-339: now that we have the race issue sorted out….how are you boet?
16 Jul 2010, 23:19 pm
AB’s must just smack Bok’s straight back into next week so that all this juxtaposition about sweet f’all can get put straight back into perspective.
These twats still think John Smit is going to carry them through to WC glory the sooner he is put out his dumb deluded overweight misery the better for everybody concerned.
Concern yourself with Januarie or Kirchner or Steenkamp or whoever while the real kernel of the cancer rests at the captains table.
Real areas to worry about are Smit, Du Plessis, Spies, Steyn, Olivier, JdV and they’re all white, so where to next should be your real serious concern.
16 Jul 2010, 23:38 pm
What’s going on here then ? South Sea Pom’s invading Keo ? Welcome, what … the Aussie sites sick of you carrying on like you invented the planet ? The shameless McBlack propaganda and promotion above is class. Tails up lads ? Does living on the edge of the planet do this to you all or are kiwi’s naturally a genetic hoard of social spastics ? All the pseudo rugby wisdom here counts for nought I’m afraid in what is nothing more than the big wrestling era of rugby union. I’m more concerned about the sneaky video feed editing antics the tattoo and canoe bumboys have brought into rugby union. It’s possible that a film crew could so dramatically record/edit a game that rugby becomes a video game. And hell, if it wasn’t for our star evil sensations like Botha and co, New Zealand would be getting the lions share of global rugby headlines and not us. Who’s winning eh ? 2007 France all over again in 2011. I’m going Boks to flip flop around till taking another Webby in billboard for Anglo-Irish culture, NEW-cheating rentboys-ZEALAND !
16 Jul 2010, 23:48 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-342:
Have you been bodysnatched again ?!
somebody give the corpse a wee kick and see if Mr Angry is still in there somewhere.
I cant pick this one. Boks have now got the attitude-advantage and ABs have to overcome the immature-confidence mindset. The opening line of this Preview just does my t*ts in “The Springboks will be better in Wellington but 21 points better is a tough ask” – its ridiculous, this match will kick off at 0-0, Im even willing to put money on that. But dont tell my wife tho.
16 Jul 2010, 23:54 pm
@trophymaster(trophymaster)-346:
Haere mai haere mai haere mai,
E kore e ea i te kupu taku aroha m?u.
16 Jul 2010, 23:55 pm
@trophymaster(trophymaster)-346:
Its the Game they play in Heaven, you know.
17 Jul 2010, 00:00 am
Trophymaster
Nothing like a saffa who can’t handle losing, still bitter about last week huh?
Would you rather they don’t show too many replays, ala burger in the lions series so as mot to incriminate the dirty, thuggish cheating neanderthals ?
Doooooos!!!
17 Jul 2010, 00:02 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-350:
double espresso this morning was it ?
17 Jul 2010, 00:07 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-347: I think most of us expect the ABs to win again, though I’m quite willing to be wrong
Either way, I can’t wait.
The great thing is that even if the ABS win it isn’t over. You have to win your home games in the 3N to have any chance.
17 Jul 2010, 00:07 am
BP. Nope. It’s called cancelled flight due to a cracked window and a rescheduled flight two days later. WTF? So miss the party and will not be going home at all.
Plus, trophymaster is that window licking bloke I mentioned the other day
17 Jul 2010, 00:11 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-353:
that was a great image, 1 of your better ones.
This twit reads a bit like HG to me, someone who ‘protesteth too much’.
bummer about the 21st, the family get-togethers are the ones we never want to miss when living overseas.
17 Jul 2010, 00:14 am
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-352:
Yep, some moron here was posting “its all over” within minutes of the result from EP. And noone has even played the Wallabies yet. Whether they threaten for the title or not this season, Im certain they wont go winless.
17 Jul 2010, 00:16 am
Funny you mention HG
Bloke has disappeared quicker then a line of cocaine on P3s dresser when he hears his mum arrive home
His continued absence is a great indication of the “man”
17 Jul 2010, 00:18 am
@Black Panther 348 – Gaan kak in die mielies jou nat naai … isixhosa, faka pakati ndontso, tsvebe
17 Jul 2010, 00:19 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-356:
aii, beware of ‘new’ bloggers surfacing out of nowhere in the leadup to Tests after a spanking……seen the TrophyMasterDebater before this week ?!
17 Jul 2010, 00:26 am
BP Yeah I know.
Now he’s so tough he has to insult in a foreign tongue. Bwahaha
Mummy and daddy must be supervising his computer time.
I do feel for all the decent Saffas on this blog, when idiots like trophymaster and KKK are representative of SA. It’s a poor image.
17 Jul 2010, 00:40 am
McBlack PantySniffer: Your village … yeah ? Old Texans were bad enough but these new kiwi ‘Texans’ ? wtf ? So … ok happy girls … We know you won, well done … What next ? Sing I’m a happy Kiwi ? 1.8 million of you in Oz and all ?
17 Jul 2010, 00:40 am
“not” supervising.
Farkin blogging by phone.
17 Jul 2010, 00:53 am
@poppa – 361 … get a free tattoo and a canoe … Go ! Anywhere ! McBlack.com.nz anywhere .nz
17 Jul 2010, 00:55 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-350: i’m out partying with rosso, but don’t u call us names dooos!
17 Jul 2010, 00:57 am
Transformation SPretprius but he is too blonde hair blue eyes for you and some
17 Jul 2010, 01:13 am
Have you ever met a Kiwi without a tattoo, no ? What’s the story ? Does the dole hand them out … Tattoo’s and canoes !? Every Kiwi, I tell you … Tattoo – canoe
17 Jul 2010, 01:25 am
Trans
You’re out partying and you took the time to blog?
Gees, whose the doos :wink.
17 Jul 2010, 01:38 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-366: she’s dancing and i’m sitting down watching, so i can flip my smartphone & see what you kiwis are on about…is that far-fetched for you?
17 Jul 2010, 01:43 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-364: he has the same kicking game as fdp? Hhhmm?
17 Jul 2010, 01:50 am
least Rossoneiri knows where her priorities lie unlike old transie here who can’t keep his beady eye off of keo, keep your eyes peeled on your lady less she goes waltzing off with somebody else while you on da blog she’s dancing the night away care and fancy free.
17 Jul 2010, 01:50 am
Trans
Yeah it is. It says a lot when you cane relax while out with good music and pretty sights that you worry about what some kiwis are saying on the other side of the world.
Just seems strange to me, perhaps if you get out there and bust a few moves you might get lucky?
17 Jul 2010, 02:14 am
Just bought my tix for EOYT matches vs Eng/Ire/Scot – incl opening match at new Landowne Road.
~tingles~
Kia kaha GO BLACK !
17 Jul 2010, 02:37 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-369: i don’t dance i just pull up my pants & do the rock-away & lean back, lean back…skop when do
YOU sleep? we’re coming through to cape town again soon, let’s share a beer or friut juice if you don’t imbibe, deal?
@poppa69(poppa69)-370: quit being a d!ckhead
i’m just sayin wassup…
17 Jul 2010, 03:16 am
Hey Poppa are the Kiwi Rugby blogs this much fun?
Tranny watch the games Sp has very god chip kick and good long kicking game too
17 Jul 2010, 03:30 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-373: i watched the griquas this evening man, nothing of the sort was on display! He has talent & potential but nothing of what you’re raving on about…in your mind do you think sarel is ready for test match rugby?
17 Jul 2010, 03:34 am
There is only one way to find out tranny like WO who clearly can’t take the step up!
He was great during S14 series
17 Jul 2010, 04:02 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-371:
Man o man I think the saffa bloggers must be mainly female, its that time of the month, they’re all in sync and all suffering PMT..POST MATCH TENSION !!. Cranky old lot when their confidence has taken a slapping.
Anyhow, to one and all__ good luck, lets just hope that this is a good clean game of fantastic rugby!!
17 Jul 2010, 04:10 am
Yes Fannytail let’s hope there is not a lot of cheating shirt pulling in this game
17 Jul 2010, 04:32 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-377: Actually mr rack, Cowan should have been yellow carded for that as well if he was caught, or the appropriate penalty metted out but being headbutted while laying face down is not in the IRB book of rules, even though Bakkies likes to think he’s a bit of an ‘enforcer’ he’s a moron who has bought alot of criticism on his national team and has not helped elevate the stature of rugby at all.
Believe it or not even the other Kiwis I was watching the game with weren’t happy with what he( Cowan) did.
Good argument for two refs, one in each half and working diagonally opposite.
NZ has had its share of ‘thugs’ as well, but the game has really started to clean up its act in the last decade or so and we don’t want the image going backwards.
Enjoy the game and hope you have a better outing than last week.
17 Jul 2010, 04:37 am
fantail he played smart rugby and bakkkes did not.
All teams bend the law just some are better at it!
Let’s hope the boks put up a better show this time
17 Jul 2010, 04:44 am
This article is a lot of nonsense.
Here’s the summary of last weeks game: “Springboks missed 32 tackles”. Read that again. More than three times the AB tackle miss stat. That’s the headline and the core of the whole narrative.
Of course there is color there about why they missed those tackles. And of course there are other things too (lineouts comes to mind, as does breakdown softness, as does poor option taking on attack). But the key question is very simple: Irrespective of personnel, game plan, AB genius etc if the Boks keep 15 men on the field for 80 minutes, get their tackle stats into the normal range, and improve nothing else from last week, they are likely to win this game.
It’s not a stretch to assume that they will do that. The only question is whether the ABs can up their game to win against a Bok defense that gets back to doing its job. Good luck with that. Mils running through three tackles looks like a hero; were he stopped at the first defender he would look like a bad option-taker.
The Boks made a good team look great last week. My bet says that they will make a good team look average in the second test.
And please stop talking about bl.oo.dy selections. Any rational line-up from this Bok squad is technically capable of executing the defensive plan (notwithstanding the glaring absence of a thinking #9). The personnel are good enough; whether they are organized and motivated is the only question.
The Boks have the ability to get up off he mat and deliver the knock-out punch. The question is whether they have the character to do so. If not then it’s time to roll the credits on a successful Bok era.
Crunch time.
17 Jul 2010, 05:10 am
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-380:
“But the key question is very simple: Irrespective of personnel, game plan, AB genius etc if the Boks keep 15 men on the field for 80 minutes, get their tackle stats into the normal range, and improve nothing else from last week, they are likely to win this game.”
Totally correct and totally possible. Will it happen, we wont know till the final whistle, but if they don’t what are the key possibilities to them losing two on the trot?
Can they reduce their miss tackle count in the face of fast and determined counter attacks and quick ball?
Is five days enough to improve their overall fitness by about 25%? Is the same length of time sufficient to re-think and implement new game plan beyond what they have effectively been playing for the last couple of seasons?
Will it be enough time to address line out and scrum issues?
Is long enough to recover from the actual game last week and front an even more eager team this week who really want to put the boks away?
We’ll know in about 6 hours.
17 Jul 2010, 05:40 am
@captain fantail(captain fantail)-381:
None of lineout, scrum, or fitness worry me in the slightest. They are all good enough at a fundamental level. The ABs are good in those dimensions but only an idiot would suggest that the ABs have any substantial advantage in any of those areas. If both teams are firing on all cylinders then the Boks are in good shape there.
The game plan topic is a little more interesting. The problem with the game plan discussion is that you have to take a view on whether last week the AB game plan was so fabulous that a great defensive team is made to look stupid, or whether a very poor defensive effort made a certain game plan look brilliant. Of course there is a bit of both.
Additionally, as relates to game plan, the defensive team (Boks) gets to make more adjustments and be less surprised for the second encounter.
I am convinced that a defensive step-up on the Bok side will have all the AB supporters revisiting their theories about game plans.
It has become de rigueur for losers to come off the field saying that they did not execute the basics. I am pretty sure it’s Richie’s turn to sing that song. When he does the question in our minds should be how the Boks stopped them from doing so.
17 Jul 2010, 06:02 am
@captain fantail(captain fantail)-378:
I wouldnt even bother with any good sportsmanship there, its effort wasted. Every single post involves ‘Kiwis/McCaw cheating’, always has had. Leave the choirboy in peace so he can continue to hit the high notes while he still can.
17 Jul 2010, 06:04 am
@funkyzoo(funkyzoo)-382: Funnily enough your idea about an average display making a average team look good is exactly how I’ve been viewing the Boks 3N victory last year. The side of the coin that shows the Boks have never put 20 on the AB’s even when at some of their lowest points, so that argument swings both ways and I would say favours the AB’s ascendancy in light of the points victory.
I too am also convinced a step up by the Boks will have a different out come and we saw shades of them threatening last week. Thankfully for us the defensive skills of the AB’s were up to the task.
I dont think the Boks will win tonight, if they were too it would be a game that will go down in history as the greatest revival ever, but I see the AB’s are probably more primed with the knowledge of ‘how’ and will be more calculating in execution. They are only going to go from strength to strength from here and I think it will be the Boks who will unfortunately be playing catch up for some time to come.
17 Jul 2010, 06:05 am
feeling bullish this morning. GO BOKKE!
17 Jul 2010, 07:04 am
Lets not forget that despite the ABs clear domination in the 1stH in Auckland, and that boosted on the back of Bakkies-idiocy, that the 2ndH score was still only NZ 12 SA 9.
I dont believe the Boks have to ‘come back from 20pts’ at all, like this article suggests – they will be considerably stronger today, the attitude will be spot on and this Test can go either way. Both teams have glaring weaknesses to counter-balance World class strengths so it all comes down to which team can exploit the opposition holes to their best ability.
All to play for.
17 Jul 2010, 07:27 am
Interesting snippet in the leadup to todays big game (nb – Thorn has only had the 1 suspension):-
“Last weekend Springboks lock Bakkies Botha was suspended for nine weeks for headbutting Jimmy Cowan during the All Blacks’ 32-12 win at Eden Park, an act that has ended his Tri-Nations.
Thorn notes he usually only crosses paths with Botha “three or four” times in a match but admits there is a part of him that wishes the Bulls second rower was playing in tonight’s test at Westpac Stadium.
“He’s a really good guy. When you have an opponent that you respect and is at the top of his game, you want to play against him.
“He’s a good footballer mate, and often the focus is on the things he does but he is a big man and quite an athlete. People don’t realise he has got good speed and some real attributes.”
Off the field Thorn and Botha often seek each other out to discuss topics outside of rugby, such as their family life: “He loves a laugh and a bit of banter and so do I. And he’s got three children and I have four. So I am one up on him,” Thorn joked. “He’s a Christian and so am I. There are some similarities there.
“He is doing his stuff and I am doing mine. There are a lot of good guys among the Africans. I find them really good guys to talk to.”
While Thorn has been determined to rub out the ill-discipline aspects from his game, he is reluctant to judge Botha, a player with a reputation for making his share of trips to the judiciary, the latest for his headbutt on Cowan.
After the Auckland test, the two locks met briefly before Botha fronted the judiciary the following day and was sent back to South Africa. “I just wished him well. I just shook his hands as a player. Obviously that was in the judiciary hands. It is tough. You do things in the moment and sometimes you regret them. But, they are done, and there you go.”
17 Jul 2010, 07:44 am
I wonder how much that jet lag factor played a role last week
Players received sleeping pills as they arrived and slept everyday as long as they wanted
This was a method that was being tested to counter jet lag.
John Smit overslept when he was supposed to be at a press conference and the journos even asked him why is he so sleepy
17 Jul 2010, 07:47 am
@captain fantail(captain fantail)-381: I think they looked lethargic because of all the sleep
17 Jul 2010, 08:05 am
@JL1(JL1)-388:
That was by no means the Boks first trip to Down under/NZ, if any signs of lethargy detected, it must be an indication of the Boks’ management skills collectively, if you suspect they have any, that is.
Common wisdom is that flying Friday night is the minimum since you lose effectively one day flying EAST, effectively that left only 3.5 days to recover from the flight and getting ready for the Test Saturday, I would say from my travelling experience you need 4 days just to shake off the jet lag: 2 hours per day.
17 Jul 2010, 08:07 am
It’s sure South Africa will suffer the traditional wrath of New Zealand television induced citings and New Zealands famous shamelessly onesided systematic yellow and red card abuse today. If I was a Bok spindoctor I’d court the contraversy and cement NZ’s lopsided hosting nature to their detriment ahead of the RWC. The citing statistics and yellow and red card count already looks oppressive so escalate it lads ! We know what Kiwiland represents – an atavistic graveyard of bias. Re-inforce it today lads and lets send the right signals to the world ahead of RWC. Why bother traveling all the way to the edge of the earth ? Why watch it at odd hours … Hit them where it hurts – their pockets ! 2 yellows, 1 red and a citing for the Boks and McBlacks by 20 is what we need.
17 Jul 2010, 08:11 am
@JL1(JL1)-388:
the thing about sleep patterns is the best thing to do is wake up every day at the same time. if you are tired go to bed earlier – NEVER SLEEP IN. every time you oversleep or change your wake time (even by waking earlier than normal) you throw out your circadian rhythym.
what the boks did was pretty much the worst thing to adapt to a new time zone in my opinion.
17 Jul 2010, 08:14 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-390: Yep,the management has said that they are trying new methods to counter jet lag, seems it did not work
17 Jul 2010, 08:24 am
@JL1(JL1)-393: sounds plausible to me JL. Now lets hope that was the case and the boys are actually up for a Test match against those miserable Kiwis today.
17 Jul 2010, 08:29 am
@JL1(JL1)-388:
Apparently, the Bulls adopt the approach of arriving over in Aus/NZ the Monday or Tues before their first S14 match.
Guess who has the influence in this Bok team?
17 Jul 2010, 08:39 am
I am pretty much convinced the Boks will be coming off the field with drooping heads and shoulders again. If they don’t I’ll be the first to admit I know F-all about rugby. If I am right, IMHO the remedy will be to aim to prepare the following team going forward for the WC to rectify some of the glaring positional imbalances.
1. Gurthro
2. John Smit
3. Werner Kruger
4. Danie R
5. Victor M
6. Brussow
7. Juan Smith (if he comes back into some form)
8. Dewald Potgieter
9. FdP
10. Morne Steyn
11. Habana
12. WO
13. J de Jongh
14. P.Spies
15. Mossie
16. Bismarck
17. Beast
18. CJ
19. Langbek
20. Schalk Burger
21. Francois Hougard
22. Butch James
23. Gary Botha
24. BJ
25. F vd Merwe
26. Stegmann
27. Jano Vermaak
28. JP Pietersen
29. Zane Kirchner
30. G Aplon
17 Jul 2010, 08:41 am
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-395: Yep,I heard about that same as the sleep issue
17 Jul 2010, 09:02 am
Truth is @catleya(catleya)-396: Truth is , the politicos won’t like it but that’s tough ****. We don’t have any other contenders and until we do, I cannot see why we should sacrifice wins for the sake of political correctness. Chilli is simply not big and strong enough, especially when we need to use BJ in conjunction with him. BJ more than holds his own with other hookers, so it tells us where the problem lies, but if the magic minimum quota is 7, then so be it.
Mossie started his career at fullback and I personally think that with a little bit of work on his out of hand kicking he will be devastating joining the line from 15. WO will be ideal to launch him. I have left out Jean dV because he has not convinced since his return and is injury prone- not the kind of player you can build plays around, but if WO has to go, Jean dV will have to slot in. Juan de Jongh is a natural at 13.
Spies at 14 allows you to use him on the loop as decoy for Mossie or vice versa and you lose none of his strengths.
Potties at 8 compliments and completes a great loose trio if Juan regains form. If not, my man will be Duanne Vermeulen at 7 to retain the same style, size and balance, and only after him would I consider Deysel or Alberts as options. Schalk I will retain as an out and out impact player/reserve off the bench.
17 Jul 2010, 11:58 am
Paul the octopus says the 2011 Webby is STILL the Boks … a red and a citing for SA would’ve been handy … New Zealand eh ?
18 Jul 2010, 06:40 am
Are the Boks going to win the World Cup??????
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.