Boks floored by failure to adapt
19 Jul 2010
The Boks should know there are no finite laws at the breakdown except for the laws perceived by the matchday referee, says JON CARDINELLI.
After Saturday’s defeat in Wellington, Peter de Villiers said the Boks would need to cheat if they were going to keep up with the All Blacks’ questionable tactics. Captain John Smit had a go at opposite number, Richie McCaw, after the All Blacks No 7 infringed regularly in the Cake Tin Test. The pair were in an agreement that referee Alain Rolland could have punished the Kiwis to a greater degree.
De Villiers and Smit have short memories. Last June, the Boks were accused of illegal tactics. Ball-stealing specialist Heinrich Brussow was vilified by British & Irish Lions coach Ian McGeechan for his tendency to ride the tackle or position himself on the wrong side of the ruck. And if I remember correctly, Brussow was hailed by his coaches and team-mates as a key player in not only that series, but in the subsequent Tri-Nations triumph as well.
According to the laws, which favoured defensive sides in 2009, McGeechan was in the wrong. Brussow’s technique and ability to push the envelope played into South Africa’s favour. The bottom line is that Brussow and his team-mates adapted better to the change in laws, and the same could be said of McCaw and the All Blacks in the 2010 Tri-Nations.
McCaw is always pushing the boundaries, but he only pushes as far as the referee will allow. In the modern game, teams prepare for the referee, and need to pick up his management style in the opening quarter and adapt accordingly. While the Bulls and Stormers adapted well in the Super 14, the Boks are behind the All Blacks in this respect.
Most referees have relaxed their stance on the new law interpretations at the breakdown. In the earlier stages of the Super 14, officials were merciless in their application of a law that prescribes forward momentum for the attacking team. Towards the end of that tournament and in the last two months of Test rugby, referees are no longer as strict on the defending team.
It’s something Eddie Jones predicted when the laws were first introduced. Jones told this website he expected good defending teams to adapt, but he also expected referees to relax their application of the law as the Sanzar tournament wore on.
It hasn’t helped South Africa’s cause to have two northern hemisphere referees in their first two Tri-Nations Tests, as Alan Lewis and Alain Rolland aren’t exactly clued up on the new interpretations. Lewis battled to keep up with the flow of play and missed a host of infringements in the first Test, while Rolland allowed the All Blacks to slow the ball in the second match in Wellington.
A good side, however, would have adapted to the referee’s style in the opening quarter, and this is where the Boks fell short. They committed too few players at the breakdown which allowed the likes of McCaw to get their mitts on the ball.
It’s not something that’s limited to the Tri-Nations, as John Mitchell admitted after the Lions 32-0 defeat to WP last Saturday. Province were lucky to get away with holding onto the ball-carrier, and in some instances competing on the deck for longer than is normally permitted. The Lions lost a lot of possession, as WP began to dominate as the match wore on.
Mitchell lamented his side’s failure to adapt to the referee’s management style rather than lament a poor refereeing performance. In a complicated sport where the application of complicated laws is subjective, you need to be able to adapt, and the sooner the Boks accept this fact, the better.
98 Comments
19 Jul 2010, 10:37 am
enter the dragon
19 Jul 2010, 10:48 am
JC I do agree on your general message of adapting I do not agree on your reasoning so much.
Brussow played well within the laws, his execution was simply just better than his counterparts.
The recent rumblings are about playing outside of the prescribed laws (not releasing tackler, not rolling away, going off feet).
Or it not being applied consistently and in some way they have a reason to be unhappy.
Bakkies got yellow carded for his first ruck infringement in test one, McCaw got more than one ‘official warning’ for same offenses and yet nothing happened.
So there is inconsistency and that is the main gripe.
However failure to manage the situation and the referee is a major concern for me and I will say again, the headspace the players seem to be finding themselves in is not a good one.
Two SA teams dominated this area in the Super 14 and more or less the same players struggle not 2 months post that time or competition.
I am not liking the general attitude of the players, and how they are managed or manage themselves.
This to me comes back to the leadership in the team – both player(s) and coach(es).
Mentally pitching up for a game and having the right attitude can be a 50 point turn-around in the game of rugby without having to make wholesale changes (Aus in DBN and Aus in JHB in 2007 springs to mind).
We have to ask however why these players that has dominated in Super rugby, are seemingly failing to pitch up mentally all of a sudden…
19 Jul 2010, 10:49 am
All I have to say is you must be retarded to insist with Ricky SLow Poke Pie January at no 9 when you have “The Tiger Woods” of rugby in Ruaan Pienaar who should be the obvious successor to FDP.. Not to mention guys like Hougaard and even Kockotte all about 50% more efficent that Pia January in both deliver service & attacking the fringes. Ruan Pienaar is 20x timese more likely to spot a gap and score or break gain line, and his service is 50+x better that of Pie Januaries.. His time is up, simple as pie.. John Smit is also in big question he needs a rest and then we can see if he’s still up to it.
I don’t want to make excuses boks were out played but dam watching that BS Yellow card again was like a ******* re-accruing nightmare!
19 Jul 2010, 10:49 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-2:
Sorry Aus in DBN and Aus in JHB in 2008, not 2007.
19 Jul 2010, 10:54 am
Not only “adapting” but simply PLAYING — look at how easily a greenhorn like Israel Dagg waltzed past six so-called “defenders” to score — he just shrugged off their so-called “tackles”. Look at how easily Mils “Supposedly Over the Hill” Muliaina carved through an army of opponents, making 20 metres with ease. Or how …
They SMOKED the Boks in doing the basics. At dazzling speed. With accuracy. Playing proper, inventive and improvised-and-varied RUNNING rugby which proved to be utterly unstoppable. And a bloody thrill to watch.
The best team in the world. By far.
19 Jul 2010, 10:55 am
I love how ‘cheating’ becomes ‘adapting to the referee’….when King McCheat does it…..um actually it’s called a ‘professional foul’
Diving off your feet at every single ruck is not interpreting anything, it’s blatantly breaking the laws.
19 Jul 2010, 10:57 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-5: Their backline made us look like schoolgirls…we have D**k Muir and his poisonous ideas about heads-up rugby to thank for that
19 Jul 2010, 10:59 am
I maintain that the both the Bulls and Stormers on their own would have been more competitive against this All Black team than the Boks have been.
The Boks just look like a poorly selected, poorly coached team. It’s as simple as that.
19 Jul 2010, 11:00 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-5: Running rugby won’t win a team a WC tacks, true story.
19 Jul 2010, 11:03 am
I believe the All Blacks are getting ahead of themselves, overrating their ability based on decent performances against a disgracefully performing Bok team.
19 Jul 2010, 11:04 am
What bad coaching can do to brilliant team…
19 Jul 2010, 11:05 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-8: I agree. The team simply isn’t gelling in the crucial areas at the moment. Combos all wrong, but some of the players also look out on their feet. It’s been a long season for Vic, Flo and a few others. We need to rest some, drop others.
The problem with the whole semantics of clever play vs cheating is that the victor usually holds the high ground, unless it’s dirty play like Bakkies or Schalk last year. We simply sound like sore losers when we moan like we’ve been doing the last few weeks.
The fact is that home ground advantage frequently results in a more favourable reffing bias, and we just made it worse by coming across as a wounded bear with a headache. Too easy.
19 Jul 2010, 11:06 am
This team should do better, although I don’t see the changes as permanent – some players just need a wake up call right now.
15 – Z Kirchner
14 – G Aplon
13 – J Fourie
12 – J de Jongh
11 – B Habana
10 – M Steyn
9 – R Pienaar
8 – R Kankowski
7 – D Rossouw
6 – S Burger
5 – V Matfield (c)
4 – A Bekker
3 – BJ Botha
2 – C Ralepelle
1 – G Steenkamp
16 – B Mtawarira
17 – J Smit
18 – F van der Merwe
19 – P Spies
20 – F Louw
21 – F Hougaard
22 – B James
19 Jul 2010, 11:07 am
If this was a Stormers loss the Keo scribes would be ranting about the ref!!!!
Honestly, its not about the rules, its about the consistency at which they are applied. What I was worried about was Victor saying that maybe they should have videos on the refs. OF COURSE you should, as I have said refs remain the most important factor in a rugby game, screw weather or home advantage, rugby is the only game that changes depending on the ref and the game. Consistency between refs and matches is never there, but a ref MUST show consistency in 1 particular match. I don’t believe Roland was consistent in any form, other than in allowing the NZ 1st player to dive over the tackle situation and lie on the floor there.
19 Jul 2010, 11:08 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-12:
In my view it speaks to greater frustrations that are boiling over.
At the Bulls, Victor could suck it up, and go back to the team vowing to come back with a vengeance – and do so in confidence.
At the Boks, he has less control and is at the mercy of whatever embarrassment the collective coaching team (whoever it consists of) dreams up next.
19 Jul 2010, 11:08 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-12:
We are getting small things wrong yes.
External factors does have an influence but all that changes with the team first, and then factors like referees.
Two yellow cards in the both tests within the first 15 minutes conceding 10 points on each occassion is simply suicide for a touring team.
19 Jul 2010, 11:09 am
Common guys Henry was in the refs pant the hole week before the game! Calling him “The Best Ref in the World” etc etc…
Im not wining about the boks, they lost on their own lack of game plan and poor selection of specific key areas..
What im saying is if only our coach could be more tactful and instead of always whine like a little ***** and complain about refs maybe he could try sleep with a few and secure some hom advantage? Least he could do…..
:0 
Ag im sure Snor will win us the World cup! … ha ha ha ye….
19 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
I’d pick Allistair Coetzee over Snor, in terms of professionalism, consistency, and strategic awareneness.
And I never thought I’d say that a couple of years ago.
19 Jul 2010, 11:11 am
3 changes need to be made:
1st Ricky out for Ruan.
2nd JdV out for Aplon/Hougaard (He’s suspended now, so looks good)
3rd Spies out for Kanko
The 1st 2 are pretty obvious, the 3rd less so. Spies looks like he is carrying an injury or something and although I normally don’t rate Kanko as highly he showed some real hunger when he came on. Spies needs a wake up call after 2 sub-standard showings.
19 Jul 2010, 11:15 am
JC, I agree with you regarding the fact that the Boks haven’t adapted this year and is thus being found wanted. But, I do not agree that it because of the breakdown area.
John Smit and PdV did bemoan the refree. Their frustration is not out and out about the way he handled the tackle area, but that he did not give McCaw the yellow card he deserved! McCaw got penalised four times in the red zone for the same offense – killing/slowing down the ball. Of those four penalties the got an “official” warning on the 2nd and 3rd penalty. The fourth penalty he didn’t even get a talking to.
Now, NO team can adapt to a referee that allows a team to constantly get away with murder. McCaw stopped four try scoring oppertunities on the blacks goal line. Was given two “official” warnings, yest continued to do it.
This is bad refeeing. Nothing the Boks could’vr done about that.
Not adapting their game plan, thinking regarding team selection, etc. Yes, here is where the Boks are found wanting big time.
19 Jul 2010, 11:15 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-16: Two #4 locks yellow-carded for dirty play inside the first 5 minutes in consecutive tests 7 days apart? Wow, that is very impressive consistency!
And some people are still whining about “inconsistency”? Do they want a metronome out there rather than a referee?
19 Jul 2010, 11:18 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-16: It’s a killer, yes.
I still think we lost to a better team, but you can’t help but wonder what would have happened if McCaw had been rightfully yellowed. There would have been one less tackler and maybe we would have made some headway (like they did when we were 14 mmen)
19 Jul 2010, 11:18 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-21:
It is pretty consistent, but not the consistency I want.
19 Jul 2010, 11:18 am
FINAFAN – I would rather bring in Gary Botha at 2, he played very well in the S14. But yes J Smit needs to be rested from now on, similar to how Jake White would rest Os!! Also Matfield is well overdue a long rest. Jaque Fourie has also played alot of rugby, so as Morne Steyn. Maybe PDV shold play Butch this saturday with RP and give Steynt he day off. Also JDV at 12 and let Aplon have a run at wing
PISSANT – This is very reminiscent of the brain **** season the Boks had in 2006, a year before the RWC, better now then next year. I worry though that PDV is able to put the killer instinct into the Boks as Eddie Jones did!!
19 Jul 2010, 11:19 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-19:
Agree 200%
Snor & his selection team must all F O A D if he/they do not make these OBVIOUS changes..
19 Jul 2010, 11:20 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-22:
I do too.
But the game cannot be analysed on if’s and but’s.
Two yellows in the first 15 minutes of each test effectively killed this as a contest.
More concerning for me is how this team reacted to it…
19 Jul 2010, 11:20 am
@fsjakes(fsjakes)-20: Spot on.
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-21: Its rugby not soccer, a yellow card for that vicious “kick” was pathetic.
19 Jul 2010, 11:21 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-24:
I mentioned elsewhere how similar this is to 2006…
This now is where PDV’s metal will be tested.
Now comes the tough calls on who to play, who to rest and following, and sticking to a plan…
Some of these calls has to comes agianst some of his most senior players too and he then has to deal with their response to this which is going to be very tough.
19 Jul 2010, 11:22 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-21: Botha was yellowed for slowing down the ball…consistency the week after?
@Atreides(Atreides)-22: playing with 14 makes a difference but if Fourie knew how/when to pass I’m pretty sure the Boks would’ve finished another two tries (definitely would’ve got one of them)
19 Jul 2010, 11:24 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-9: The idea of running rugby is a falacy. If you do not go onto the field with the mentality of scoring points, you may as well stay at home.
The AB’s are masters of identifying opportunities when they arise. The better your tight phases, ruck technique and general skills, the more such opportunities will arise.
Anyone who runs onto the field thinking they are just going to throw the ball around and score from anywhere will definitely see their arses. The AB’s did it last year and it did not work. But this year, they are dominating in all facets of the game and they are creating opportunities.
I am worried – very worried. The AB’s have evolved and we have stagnated.
19 Jul 2010, 11:24 am
the team looks poorly prepared top to bottom.
where are our Goliaths from the super 14?
unfortunately the Bakkies incident will effect us for the rest of the season withregards to us get anything 50/50.
the reffing has been downright biased but our mental fortitude has been alarmingly bad.
when we do perform so badly inevitably I start questioning our fitness and fatigue situation.
It looks like we will take a nasty beating in brisbane.
19 Jul 2010, 11:25 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-26: Exactly true. I’ll say it again, the sooner muir is removed form that team the better…remember how we were defending a year or 2 ago? Compare it to now….and then compare it to the Lions defensive record in the S14
19 Jul 2010, 11:25 am
The refereeing is a problem when the ref isnt from SA. The S14 had nearly all SA refs for most games. The Aus and NZ teams had good and bad refs so learned to deal with different refs. I do not think Aus and NZ will complain if they get all NH refs. They will learn more this way and SA could get smart and learn too.
19 Jul 2010, 11:26 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-29: WO and Habs are also pretty averse to passing…
19 Jul 2010, 11:28 am
@GI POT(GI POT)-30: The AB’s played last year like the Lions did this year. Remember all the articles lamenting the way the AB’s just tried to run it from everywhere? “Heads-up” rugby at it’s ugly worst….. and that was the AB’s who are traditionally more adept at quick thinking on the field. Our guys need structure, bottom line
19 Jul 2010, 11:32 am
who’s the ref in brisbane
19 Jul 2010, 11:33 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-29: Fourie’s distribution was diabolical. But he did not have inside backs straightening the line on attack.
Anyways, no excuses. One of his worst showings in the green jumper.
19 Jul 2010, 11:34 am
Some positives:
Lineout dominance is back
Kirchner growing nicely into role
Pienaar clearly ups the tempo
Louw stronger performance
Penalty count greatly reduced
I believe the 2 yellow cards greatly influenced this game, 1sty the one Danie got cost us 10 points and 2ndly McCaw’s 2nd warning was right on their line and came at a time when the score was 21 – 10.
19 Jul 2010, 11:34 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-34: Fourie is even more averse
and when he does he makes it fwd
Bladdy hell
I was really disappointing with him on saturday
19 Jul 2010, 11:37 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-36:
Was supposed to be Bryce Lawrence but he is injured, replaced by Clancy from Ireland.
19 Jul 2010, 11:37 am
our lineout is one dimensional all of a sudden?
I watched 2004 on espn classic yesterday and our lineout ball was always quickly out to the backs now the kiwis just get ready for the maul.
why the hell would we not mix it up?
the kiwis defense maul tactics are also very debatable.
there is a huge difference between driving through the middle and crabbing around the side and grabbing on to the player at the back whilst “detaching” from the maul but inevitably disrupting the maul at the same time.
19 Jul 2010, 11:37 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-38: i’ve been impressed with Kirschners improved performances
he’s not Steyn but he’s definitely one of the positives shining through
makes one realise how all the talk abt Meisiekind not performing because of the pack,Januarie , grass being too green is all nonsense
its like all the excuses that were being made when JS was playing tighthead last year
sometimes the problem is simple
19 Jul 2010, 11:37 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-31: You are spot on: this team is poorly prepared; mentally, physically, tactically and psychologically
I would not say that refs are biased. Bias, to me, means that they go out there with a preconceived and conscious mentality of favouring the one team over the other.
I will say that the refs are inconsistent – both in the way they apply laws collectively, and individually within the game.
There are many subconscious factors that play on a ref’s mind, and, having reffed a couple of games myself, I know that it is easier to see when an opponent infringes when you are well drilled in your techniques at the breakdown and in the tight phases.
The less structure, the harder it is to see infringements. We are not well structured in our cleanouts, the maul and the ruck and that is why the AB’s get away with murder.
All of the above just proves your point that this team is under prepared
19 Jul 2010, 11:38 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-40:
George Clancy that is, not Tom…
Mind you the calls these days does seem like a mystery.
19 Jul 2010, 11:38 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-9:
Correct and proof of that was the RWC 2007. Two teams that didnt know where the try line was.
Didnt Aussie win the two RWCs with an all round balanced team.
I believe NZ have a good balanced team. We can defend as well as attack.Interesting times i must say
19 Jul 2010, 11:38 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-40:
another irish twat then….guess we can expect a 4+try whipping.
19 Jul 2010, 11:39 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-40: clancy???
19 Jul 2010, 11:39 am
@GI POT(GI POT)-43:
if a ref goes onto the field to keep a closer eye on the one team because of what happened the previous week….it is preconcieved and therefor bias.
nothing to talk about withregards to this aspect.
19 Jul 2010, 11:40 am
@Papoose(papaown)-47:
Yeah well you know as much about him as I do…
19 Jul 2010, 11:40 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-35: The sad reality is that the AB’s have 30 odd players who are used to their damn good structure and we have a plod in Muir who is breaking down ours. What a diabolical, brainless situation
19 Jul 2010, 11:41 am
PISSANT – I missed both game, was in the Costa Brava on Hols, how was Monre Steyn’s play? Is he the man to take the Boks to RWC2011? He as also played a heck of lot of rugby since the Lions tour!!
19 Jul 2010, 11:41 am
What do you guys think – should we consider returning to an outright rush-defense system?
The All Blacks looked vulnerable on the few occasions we executed it in the second half as we managed to shut down their space.
I feel that, on the drift defense, we are just allowing their inside backs an extra split second to make a distribution decision, and they are also well prepared for the collision with our defense (catching us off guard on our wrong shoulders).
19 Jul 2010, 11:43 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-51:
Nothing bad but nothing spectacular.
Very few opportunities to stamp his authority but would still not pick anyone ahead of him at 10.
19 Jul 2010, 11:43 am
@Papoose(papaown)-39: All of our senior guys were invisible on saturday!!
19 Jul 2010, 11:43 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-31: You right there brig, and the scary thing is i reckon PDivvy’s arrogance will stop him from admitting that he might need some help
19 Jul 2010, 11:43 am
South Afica are a team with over 700 test caps, we should have the experience to adapt play on the day according to the way the ref blows it.
John Smit, did not question or put any doubt in the ref’s mind about certain dubious decisions. The coaching staff also could have got a message out onto the field which evidently they did not do.
But, the bigger problem to me is our players just look tired and over played. If our key players do not get any decent rest soon they will all suffer from burn out and we will have a disastrous World Cup next year.
We also have to select our best players who are currently in form. Januarie is our weak link I don’t care what any body says!
19 Jul 2010, 11:44 am
@Atreides(Atreides)-7:
don’t forget de Villiers! He’s ideas are even worse!!
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-5:
Well, it’s easy to beat a defence that is poorly aligned and disorganized, whilst on the back foot. Nothing too spectacular.
19 Jul 2010, 11:46 am
@iceman(iceman)-56: I have a simple question for the Boks:
How hungry are they for 2010 success?
I think they are foucusing too much about 2011 already.
19 Jul 2010, 11:47 am
@willievz(willievz)-58:
I assure you there is no planning or foresight in this era of Boks.
19 Jul 2010, 11:57 am
@iceman(iceman)-56: 700 caps mean close to nothing when several of these “highly-capped” players regularly come off the bench with only 5 minutes left in the game to earn yet another “test cap”. A record ought to be kept of “test minutes” played.
19 Jul 2010, 12:01 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-59: based on what… another non-existent analysis
19 Jul 2010, 12:01 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-49:
19 Jul 2010, 12:02 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-57: Its “his” not “he’s”. What you effectively wrote is: “He is ideas are even worse”. Makes no sense.
19 Jul 2010, 12:02 pm
@Atreides(Atreides)-54: true
they were ALL disappointing
19 Jul 2010, 12:07 pm
PissAnt – Then i am afraid this is our Bok brainfart season. Us fans are just going to have to grin and bear this season!!
19 Jul 2010, 12:10 pm
S14 form can be very deceptive – its more about home ground advantage.
Bulls and Stormers played most of their big matches at home or in SA and predictably topped the log.
The odd loss on the road to a team like the Reds didn’t hurt their final positions.
Only one team in 15 years has won S14 away if I recall correctly.
The composition of the S14 final was never going to have great bearing on 3N given Bokke had to play 2 away in NZ.
I think SA might have been reading too much of their own press.
19 Jul 2010, 12:10 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-59: i agree with the article in theory, but its difficult when the ref says hands out its a ruck to one team and 3 phases later immediately blows for a penalty against the other.
I dont think the ab’s have changed their tactics that much either, especially at tackle time where tackler does not immediately release the tackled player, hence our slower ball. This is compounded by the fact that they have greater numbers at rucktime.
19 Jul 2010, 12:12 pm
@willievz(willievz)-58: Im willing to lose some ground this year for the sake of next year’s RWC, maybe the Boks CANT be the dominating force we want them to be, maybe they can be the team that wins when it counts, at the RWC
19 Jul 2010, 12:13 pm
@Qrest(Qrest)-66: Agreed. In addition, both teams also started their quest for glory on home soil. They took valuable momentum with them when they ventured across the Indian Ocean.
19 Jul 2010, 12:14 pm
@Qrest(Qrest)-66: stormers and bulls both played 5 games in australasia, each winning 4
19 Jul 2010, 12:17 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-68: That seems to be the sentiment of most supporters. But my question in turn to them would be – why do we need to sacrifice 2010 for 2011?
The two objectives are not mutually exclusive.
In fact, winning this years 3N should have been a top priority. I assume that the bulk of this squad will be rested during the 2011 3N, so this was their last opportunity to hunt down a Kiwi scalp on their turf before the global event kicked off.
19 Jul 2010, 12:17 pm
while it doesnt come as a surprise when the boks dont perform against the blacks for calls for coaching heads to be rolled
i think we should take a cue from wot Graham Henry did
Last year, every1 was calling for his head as well
that was sad
he re-grouped and came back. the way the Keoites were carrying on abt that last years All Blacks being a weak team we should have pummeled ..COME ON
Since when do you hear of a WEAK All Blacks team? this same team has thumped us with better tactics
19 Jul 2010, 12:18 pm
@mamma_lou(mamma_lou)-70: Bulls won 3. Lost against Blues and Reds.
19 Jul 2010, 12:19 pm
the thing is tactically we were found wanting. WAY wanting and we need to crucify the coaching stuff for tht…including Piet Snor
If we dont, they wont learn
All those though saying tht they are out of they’re depth and all that..PLEASE. THIS SAME COACHING STAFF HUMILIATED THE aLL bLACKS LAST YEAR AND they’re counterparts WERENT FIRED.
So lets calm the F.cuk down
Can anyone answer this though…whats been the fundamental change in startegy from the All Blacks 2009 and All Blacks 2010?
19 Jul 2010, 12:20 pm
@willievz(willievz)-69: you guys are trying to undermine what these 2 teams have done this year and i cannot agree with you guys, you seem to forget how difficult it is to win overseas, both the Bulls and stormers are much better prepared than the Boks are right now, so it would be wrong to try and devalue the achievements of 2 very good teams just because the Boks aren’t doing as well in the 3N, the gist of this article is basically why cant the Bok coaches get the same out of the players as the S14 coaches do
19 Jul 2010, 12:25 pm
@willievz(willievz)-52: Old story again. The rush defense will only be a secure option if we have an 8 that covers behind the backline- one with a high workrate and work ethic and sound defensive organization and vision. We have the right guy there but he is sitting on the bench.
19 Jul 2010, 12:26 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-73: yeah sorry 3 not 4 for both
19 Jul 2010, 12:27 pm
@willievz(willievz)-58:
No team likes to loose, especially the manner in which the Boks have just lost the last two games!
I reckon they must be really hurting deep inside.
I believe they would have loved to have won back to back Tri-Nations for the first time but they just look too tired and flat!
It also does not help when we are selecting third and fourth choice players.
When Heindrich Brussouw, Bismarck Du Plessis, Juan Smith, Fourie Du Preez and Franscois Steyn make their return I also think we should see a big improvement in the team.
I would also like to see a few other players like Gerhard van der Heever, Deon Stegman, Peter Grant, Meyer Bosman, Jano Vermaak, Joe Pietersen and Duanne Vermeulem added to the squad to add some new blood but also to see how the go at test level before the W.C. next year.
19 Jul 2010, 12:28 pm
@willievz(willievz)-52: This has become our little pet subject.
I am a very big supporter of the rush defense, or at least a variation on the theme. The following are my reasons:
a. Tackles are made behind their advantage line which means their forwards have to turn around to join rucks and ours are on the front foot automatically
b. It takes away much of the decision makers’ time and space.
c. It is easier to make direction adjustments to counter the opponent’s attempted side steps or scissor movements in their backline when you are on the front foot.
d. Don’t ask me why, but it is much easier to read the opponents’ attacking movements when you are on the front foot.
What the rush defense will demand of us:
a. A scrumhalf and openside flank to cover the space behind the defensive line
b. A no 8 who reads the game and can position himself to receive kicks into space.
c. Tremendous trust in among team mates and confidence in the system.
I saw a couple of occasions on Saturday where Wynand Olivier was employing the drift defense and Mossie and Steyn rushed up, leaving a huge hole for Nonu to attack. Olivier tackled him most of the time, but only after the former had crossed the advantage line and the ensuing ruck gave them quick ball from which to attack.
I think the team is caught between two systems. My conclusion is that there is not agreement regarding the system that should be used.
The rush defense will work for us if we have a deadly defender at no 7, a fast and intelligent no 9, and a naturally talented no 8 who has the strength to carry the ball up should he be found isolated after fielding a kick. We have none of the above
19 Jul 2010, 12:32 pm
@willievz(willievz)-71: i just dont think the Boks have the mental strength to go into any tournament as the favorites, thats why i say we might just be expecting too much from them, they will win when it counts. Lets not talk like we are out of the 3N running, we lost 2 away games, granted to win the 3N you must pick up points away but it doesnt mean we are out of it just yet.
19 Jul 2010, 12:33 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-75: My issue is not with the losses, it is how we lost and how we reacted to critical decisions situations on the field.
Usually, one can sense the mood in the camp by reading the media and keeping your ear on the ground.
In hindsight, I think the Bok management clearly forgot how difficult it is to win away from home.
One could sense their and the players’ easygoing approach in the pre-tournament buildup via media statements and the selection policies in the June tests. Those same comments got reiterated on this very site by supporters.
Goodness, there were even talks about resting certain players in the home leg after we return from Australia!!
The team certainly had their humble pied served to them and their were no kiwifruit for dessert. Currently I observe a frustrated and unmotivated bunch of players.
They’ve fallen off their horses, and while it is certainly time to get back up, maybe they should reconsider the horse.
19 Jul 2010, 12:36 pm
@Papoose(papaown)-74: they’ve basically stopped us from playing by disrupting our lineout, slowing our ruck ball, put our scrum under pressure. Their attack came mostly from turnover. So in a nutshell they are doing to us this year what we did to them last year
19 Jul 2010, 12:38 pm
The springboks were poor in every aspect , defence was poor. As soon as ruan piennaar came on the whole game changed if it wasnt for the poor defence and the ref being very lenient to the all blacks during that period I think we were better than them, When Piennaar came on. Everyone says we look tired the all blacks would look tired if janurie was there scrummie, all he does is kick the effing possesion away and takes so long on attack that there defence can line up and tackle the c**p out of us.
As soon as Pienaar came on we crossed the advantage line for the first time.
I honestly think Januarie is the cancer that needs to be cut.
19 Jul 2010, 12:39 pm
@catleya(catleya)-76: Granted, but the nr8 is not currently performing that role in a drift defense!
Granted the opposition does not cleverly use chips and grubbers, a nr8 can arguably get away with fewer sweeping under the rush defense.
19 Jul 2010, 12:45 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-79: Yes, excellent analysis there.
The primary way that rushing up will tweak our defense is in the way the opensider needs to defend. Under the rush-defense, the opensider do not need to hunt down the nr10 as viciously, allowing both him and the nr8 to cover the defensive line behind the backline.
Louw gave Carter too much space in these tests as he is not the quickest opensider. This was even more complicated by Louw’s unwillingness to perform the first tackle as he is scavenging deck ball that results from his peers’ tackles.
19 Jul 2010, 12:46 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-60:
I totally agree with you there are certain players who get handed test caps week after week who don’t deserve it! It’s a joke!
But still there are some very experienced players in the Springbok team who should by now know what to do if the ref is not blowing the game that they are accustomed to.
Play the rules to what you see on the day!
19 Jul 2010, 12:47 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-80: Yep.
A complacent mindset is the classic Achilles heel of South African sport.
19 Jul 2010, 13:00 pm
@Finfan(Finfan)-13:
I agree 100% with your 9 – 15. This will inject some serious pace into the Bok backline which was badly needed against the AB’s
19 Jul 2010, 13:10 pm
@willievz(willievz)-85: I think all three our loose forwards were very confused – not necessarily with what their respective roles will be, but on how to play under a defensive system that they are not familiar with.
19 Jul 2010, 13:35 pm
15 Kirschner
14 Aplon
13 Fourie
12 JDJ
11 Habanna
10 Steyn
9 Pienaar
8 Kanko
7 Potties
6 Schalk
5 Vic
4 Danie
3 CJ
2 Chilli
1 JS
16 BJ
17 Gurthro
18 Flip
19 Flo
20 January
21 WO
22 Hougaard
19 Jul 2010, 13:54 pm
divvy, deek and GG….
the origin of species
19 Jul 2010, 14:57 pm
@GI POT(GI POT)-79: We have Dewald Potgieter on the bench. There is no deadlier defensive flanker, no more naturally gifted visionary 8 and no harder grafter than him in SA, yet we for some or other reason persist in ignoring him.
And to anyone who questions his abilities due to his size I simply say this. He has consistently been picked at every agegroup level, u/19 SA, Bulls S14 and CC, Emerging Boks and Boks level by different sets of selectors in recognition of the effectivity of his play. They can’t all be wrong. He has played against every individual he is bound to come up against at S14 level and has consistently out-performed them. Are we waiting for him to go stale due to lack of gametime like they did to Kanko before we play him as last resort? His heart is huge.
19 Jul 2010, 15:04 pm
Playing with 14 on the field makes it a lot harder on the rest of the team, but it is NOT impossible to win with 14 on the field! It makes things harder yes, but if the rest of the team is poor the dont hold your breath. No matter what is said, the boks are not in the best form right now. The All blacks are in better form .
It is like golf , you play with the swing you bring , if your swing is **** , then instead of blaming everything else learn to play with what is going on at once. You dont win a game a day later after everything has been analysed . You do that before the game! Make sure you are fully prepared, for everything including the referee . If you know the ref is focused is slowing the ball down , then dont go there are the first 3 penalties.
Boks are slow to adapt, simple really, get more brains and less brawn on the field, the brawn has already cost you two games so far…
19 Jul 2010, 16:32 pm
JC you are so right in writing: They committed too few players at the breakdown which allowed the likes of McCaw to get their mitts on the ball.
19 Jul 2010, 18:05 pm
Jonck #94; shades of 2008! GI Pot, sure a rush defence is ok but it doesn’t work that well if your opponents can run from deep and build up pace (don’t try it if you keep kicking the ball to them). Then your man cannot miss his opponent otherwise, as you say, unless you have a bullet flank, you’re in trouble.
These are the details of a game plan that shows weakness in the coaching staff (stand up Mr Muir), lack of appreciation of player fatigue and attributes and finally just a lack of coaching.
AB’s the opposite. Drilled to run back the kicks, support the ball carrier, attack tackle ball and finally to win over the refs and citing officals.
19 Jul 2010, 19:43 pm
Yes contrasting styles. AB’s prepared to play TOTAL RUGBY, Bok’s still lost in a time warp that is TOTAL THUGBY.
19 Jul 2010, 22:08 pm
What pissed me off was seeing teh bok defenders jumping OVER the tackled player to get to their position in teh defensive line, instead of grabbing the ball as the tackled player hit the ground. Like competing of rth eball at a a tackle was beneath them. Clearly they believe that it is still possible to “stonewall” the attack with a good defensive line in the face of quick ball to the other side. This is a COMPLETELY WRONG assumption. You will never get aligned defnsively when the other side are getting quick ball. It would be better to have teh closest player get himself in a positon to grab the ball ASAP before the AB cleaners get there. If they just step over thetackled player, they allow the tackled player to push ball back for IMMEDIATE ball, or to pass up to following players. that should NEVER be allowed.
21 Jul 2010, 22:52 pm
From Sportsbet: There is a special place in Hell reserved for referees and, boy, will they be toasted red by the time Satan has finished with them. In the meantime, punters do [earn] their money in cold blood.
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