Bok back-row blunders continue
11 Aug 2010
JON CARDINELLI says the axing of Francois Louw is a sure sign the Springbok selectors learned nothing from the Australasian beatings.
Louw’s been selected for Saturday’s Currie Cup clash between WP and the Bulls. WP coach Allister Coetzee said he would play the Boks who don’t make the final 24-man squad, and Louw’s selection suggests the flanker isn’t being considered for the 21 August Test against the All Blacks.
Dewald Potgieter will also return to the Bulls, which leaves loose forwards Schalk Burger, Ryan Kankowski, Juan Smith, and Pierre Spies in contention for the Soweto fixture. Burger, Smith and Spies will start, and while they’ve been such a formidable combination in the past, it’s clear the current breakdown laws demand the inclusion of somebody who plays to the ball.
Heinrich Brüssow was the top fetcher in the world in 2009, besting prominent breakdown bandits like Richie McCaw and George Smith. After Brüssow’s season-ending injury in early 2010, Louw was identified as the alternative. He made a great start in the preliminaries but then battled behind a losing tight five in the two defeats to New Zealand.
Surprisingly, the Bok selectors opted to replace Louw with Kankowski for the final tour match against Australia. Predictably, the Boks were completely outclassed by a Wallabies back row that boasted a better balance, and more importantly, a specialist fetcher in David Pocock.
The Bok selectors who explained Kankowski’s inclusion as one that would speed up their game were exposed. You cannot hope to put speed on the ball (or deny the opposition a quick ruck recycle) if you don’t have a breakdown specialist. Louw should have played in Brisbane, and he’s a must if the Boks want to combat McCaw and Pocock in the coming three Tests.
Burger and Smith are no slouches on the deck, but their ball-poaching strengths cannot match those of the best fetchers. A trio of Burger, Smith and Spies is geared for ball carrying which is fine as long as the Boks are on the attack, and on the Highveld it will work to some extent. But consider how well the All Blacks and Wallabies retained possession in the Tests against the Boks, and you will realise why a ball-stealer is so vital.
You would hope there’s been some mistake and that Louw will return to the Bok squad next week, but then why would you release him to play in a grinding forward-oriented clash against the Bulls? He will be needed at some point this year and in 2011, as even when Brüssow is fit, the Boks need two fetchers in their squad.
The decision to retain Kankowski is perplexing, as like Wynand Oliver and Zane Kirchner he’s yet to make the step up at Test level. The Bok selectors are blowing an opportunity to start Louw, Smith and Burger as a combination. They’re refusing to try something new. They’d rather favour a tried and tested, but ultimately limited, trio. That may work to a degree, but it won’t win matches.
And if they believe that combination can win matches, where is the planning beyond the Tri-Nations, a tournament that South Africa can no longer win? They need to give Louw opportunities now and experiment with a new No 8 in Burger. Kankowski is not good enough and Spies’s defensive game is lacking.
The Bok management should try something new on this home leg. Playing the same old combinations will ensure they get even less out of this Tri-Nations tournament than they already have.
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281 Comments
11 Aug 2010, 14:26 pm
no balance dragons
11 Aug 2010, 14:31 pm
This just sounds like one long rant, Cardinelli.
Your WP weren’t picked and now you’re throwing your toys out the cot.
Truth is, Louw is not Brussouw’s replacement. They are completely different players. Stegman is the closest to Brussouw we’ve got.
Most likely, the selectors are taking a long term view with the World Cup in mind. They know Brussouw will be their guy, and Louw won’t be in the mix. Unless he proves himself further in provincial rugby over the next year, perhaps.
The long term view – barring injury – is most probably that Spies, Smith, Burger and Brussouw will be the 4 loose forwards in the World Cup opening game match 22.
With maybe Potgieter leading the midweek team, and hoping to make it into the mix should one of the top 4 get injured before the final.
I may not agree with Burger being there, but that seems like the way the coaches are going.
11 Aug 2010, 14:36 pm
It might not be such a bad idea to retain your most successful combo. The team is in a slump right now so playing a settled combination might bring some stability to the team. Where if you try out new players you might further disrupt the team. Its going to be a tough game but the Boks will come through it stronger.
11 Aug 2010, 14:37 pm
I don’t see the point in sticking to what is tried and tested as @Tacitus(Tacitus)-2 says. We have lost the tri-nations no need to stick to old ways try new things, bring in players that could maybe change things.
The coaches are not looking towards the WC, they are just being conservative.
11 Aug 2010, 14:37 pm
Now you ranting about bull players missing in the Bok team.
11 Aug 2010, 14:39 pm
Look at how the Sharks played this weekend against the Lions. The Lions sure are not the ABs or Wallabies but, with ball in hand it makes for attractive rugby.
Fetcher or no fetcher, replacing Burden with a fatboy means you are never going forward.
Boks have no chance and now they are looking to WP for defence, it seems that the kick and chase is going to be employed again…
So shocking it’s not even funny.
11 Aug 2010, 14:40 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-2: I totally agree with you. Burger and Brussouw to switch when we play NZ or Aus. We just need those 4 loosies at the WC. Burger can cover all positions (6,7,8) and Danie can cover 7 & 8.
11 Aug 2010, 14:43 pm
JC,
” …Louw was identified as the alternative. He made a great start in the preliminaries but then battled behind a losing tight five in the two defeats to New Zealand.”
Just yesterday you posted an article on how Spies was “surplus” and should be axed.
Why didn’t you mention that he too was playing behind a “losing tight 5″ and entire scrum effort?
11 Aug 2010, 14:45 pm
Come on Tacitus, this is not about provincialism but about finding balance. Despite his bench-press tats and amazing potential your bulletjie Spies has been nowhere this Tri-Nations. Kankowski has also been average in his limited opportunities. Smith is back and barring concussion a good option to bring in. But with Buirger and Smith we need a fetcher of some sort because when we try playing the Australasian sides without one we get dominated at the breakdown, end of story.
I agree Flo is not quite like Brussouw and Stegmann as a fetcher, but he is close, plus he offers more than Stegmann (lineout, ball-carrying and he gives away fewer penalties). I reckon Stegmann is good but has hearing problems as he never listens to the ref’s warnings.
If this story is accurate, then the selectors have screwed up again.
11 Aug 2010, 14:47 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-8:
We know why.
11 Aug 2010, 14:48 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-10:
No, I don’t. Can somebody please explain it to me.
11 Aug 2010, 14:52 pm
I say rather play the settled combinations and go for three home wins. This will boost morale within the camp and bring the team out of the slump. Why will PDV place his job on the line by trying out new players? He can try out new players on the EOYT where the pressure is not so intense.
11 Aug 2010, 14:53 pm
Everyone is biased when it comes to there own team. That is something we just have to live with.
11 Aug 2010, 14:53 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-10:
Because Cardinelli is punting his favourites, just like everyone else on this site.
11 Aug 2010, 14:53 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-11:
No 14 was meant as a repy to you.
11 Aug 2010, 14:55 pm
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-12: By using the same players I think you are going to get a hiding, which is what Div and Smit deserve, so play the same od same old. Don’t develop new players and never look to the form books.
11 Aug 2010, 14:55 pm
@Reserve Naartjie(Reserve Naartjie)-9:
First of all, in case you don’t know Bulls rugby and haven’t watched this years S14, Stegmann made the squad as an 8th man and was used as a lineout option more than once in this years S14.
Secondly, haven’t you had enough of the “Stegmann’s a walking penalty” mantra already?
Tell me how is he a liability? Flou gave away more penalties. Did you know that?
And “WP_” is gonna jump on me now-now, so let me make clear that Stegmann played fewer minutes- but he had far more breakdown stats than Flou and that’s where the penalties were being conceded.
Stegmann’s most penalties in a match were 5 (by Joubert under whom we lost our only 2 games AND ironically enough whom the journos here cant stop complaining about- just to prove my point).
Flou most pens in a match were 4.
How is Stegmann then any worse?
The fact is, if you take all the stats into account, Stegmann was LESS of a liability than Flou.
Get off it already, will ya?
11 Aug 2010, 14:56 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-14:
Aren’t the writers supposed to be above reproach?
11 Aug 2010, 14:59 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-17:
I’m a little tired of repeating that. But it should make it clear that when it comes to penalties conceded, Flou actually screwed up more than Stegmann and those on the bandwagon simply aren’t aware of the stats, don’t know rugby and merrily and blindly follow along with what is dished up to them by any biased and overreacting sports writer.
11 Aug 2010, 15:01 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-17: I think if Flou didn’t have a stand named after his family he wouldn’t be in the team. Did you know the rugby genius Hoskins didn’t know who his grand-daddy is?
11 Aug 2010, 15:02 pm
Yawn, this is the same ol cr.ap from Keo and Keolings – the same unfounded rumours, speculation and emotional criticism…
Funny about the suggestion of Burger at 8 (a failure in his forays there for the Boks).
But nevermind as all have heard “There is nothing new under the sun” with this theatre of bull.****…
It is boring now.
11 Aug 2010, 15:13 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-21: That was the old Burger. The new passing, linking Burger might just do well at 8 now. He seems to be quicker also now than previously.
11 Aug 2010, 15:13 pm
simply unbelievable …..incrdibly stupid and naive…..the 3 stooges enhance there reputation daily.
No matter how you slice and dice Kanko, Spis, J Smith and Burger it comes up the same…..
A disaster.
Watch gents…..we going down ….and this time it may get uglier!
11 Aug 2010, 15:14 pm
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-22: LOL
11 Aug 2010, 15:14 pm
I have no doubt given 3 weeks and a decent coach i would select a team that would moer this Fat Boys Club so stukkend it wont even be funny.
11 Aug 2010, 15:14 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-24: You must be Whackhead Simpson
11 Aug 2010, 15:15 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-20:
Doesn’t surprize me.
But rather I think if Flou wasn’t a popular (for non-rugby reasons as well as rugby) WP Player, he wouldn’t be in the team.
Imagine if Flou played for the Lions? huh?
Alberts-style.
In which category is Flou better than Brussow or Stegmann? Ball carrying? Is that it? Is that why he wears 7 and not 6? Kak man.
Stegmann is better. period.
11 Aug 2010, 15:16 pm
mc caw and pocock must think its an early xmas…..
Henry and Deans are loving the circus….and they get paid for watching!
11 Aug 2010, 15:16 pm
@grant10(grant10)-23:
Heheheh…
11 Aug 2010, 15:16 pm
@grant10(grant10)-25: “Real” imagination required for who you would select:
1 to 15 from Weepee and a Captain from Bath…
Farking yawn out loud (YOL)…
11 Aug 2010, 15:17 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-27: steggmann is injured…..ffs.
Should have gone for 6F Louw
7 schalk
8 Dewalt.
Kiwis would have kakked themselves…..now they having a laugh…..
11 Aug 2010, 15:18 pm
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-29: put it in your saver….then we talk 3 weeks later when you work up the balls….
11 Aug 2010, 15:19 pm
we just dont learn….farken incredible….
outta here
11 Aug 2010, 15:19 pm
what a wonderful article.
something for everyone to b i tch about LMAO!
11 Aug 2010, 15:20 pm
Well I rest my case.
Potgieter – great and should have been in the squad
Louw – best fetcher at present.
The mind boggles.
Then they keep Olivier and Kirschner the two – one dimensional players. Oh well didn’t we expect it.
11 Aug 2010, 15:20 pm
@grant10(grant10)-23: Home ground advantage must count for something? I think the Boks would have studied the tapes of the New Zealand games and realised that they must m o e r the AB’s out of the breakdown if the Ref is not going to do anything. They must bring back rucking!! Then you see how quickly Richie will roll away! The cheating b a s t a r d!!!
11 Aug 2010, 15:20 pm
best they play kanko instead of that cowardly Spies….
FFS man!
11 Aug 2010, 15:22 pm
@grant10(grant10)-31:
Yes, I know!
I was just trying to help the fruit out.
11 Aug 2010, 15:23 pm
@grant10(grant10)-32:
Newsflash, Einstein.
Team selection is largely irrelevent under this coaching trio. The likely result is a loss, whoever they choose. It is just a question of by how much and whose careers are most damaged by it.
I can already see you trying to claim credit for “predicting a Bok thrashing”.
Really, you need to lift your game.
11 Aug 2010, 15:24 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-34:
They keep ‘em coming thick and fast here on Keo.
11 Aug 2010, 15:24 pm
First let me say to ALL you high and mighty Bulls – lets see what happens on Newlands this weekend. For a team that buy every player to looks like they have talent I will not start talking about your players. Its not – you have purely borrowed other provinces players.
Secondly – I have no problem with Flo back with Province, I have seen that if you want to screw up a players form then send him to SNOR.
11 Aug 2010, 15:26 pm
According to every rugby website incl this one, Flo is bracketed with Koster as ‘WP still awaiting news on his availability’. So, is he playing or not?
11 Aug 2010, 15:26 pm
@grant10(grant10)-31:
Actually, considering the situation, I would have gone with
8 Spies
7 Flou
6 Burger
11 Aug 2010, 15:27 pm
@oranjewurm(oranjewurm)-41:
Sh*t! It’s not our fault that they want to come play for us!
11 Aug 2010, 15:27 pm
Francois Louw is bracketed with Koster!
That means if Louw is picked for the Boks, then Koster will play, surely.
JC you’re a tool
11 Aug 2010, 15:30 pm
I woulda had:
6 Francois Louw
7 Juan Smith
8 Schalk Burger
19 Spies (To rampage through the oppo in the last 20 when they are tired and he is fresh!)
11 Aug 2010, 15:35 pm
i’d go with
Davon Raubenheimer
Lobberts
Ash Johnston
with January nr 9 & Elton Jantjies @ 10
11 Aug 2010, 15:35 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-35: Kirshner is in the Bulls team so he is also dropped.
11 Aug 2010, 15:37 pm
In case I forgot why it’s been so nice having WP on the bottom for so long is what a bunch of w@ankers they are when on top.
11 Aug 2010, 15:40 pm
Terrible Conclusions drawn in this article.
If anything, this last 2 weeks points to a Juan Smith, Burger Kanko starting line up.
JC, not your best, clearly a Flouw fan.
Should have dropped Spies and played Flouw, my personal opinion.
11 Aug 2010, 15:40 pm
JC you are very slow: This is the real situation
“WP coach Allister Coetzee, has already accepted backline stars Juan de Jongh and Gio Aplon will not be released by the Boks for their important Absa Currie Cup match against the Blue Bulls, but he has named Francois Louw in the side for in Saturday’s ‘North – South’ clash at Newlands.
It is very likely the Bok selectors will inform the provinces on Friday and Coetzee has listed the name of Nick Koster alongside Louw’s in the event of the latter being required for national team duty.”
@Airwell(Airwell)-48: Thank the Lord
11 Aug 2010, 15:40 pm
this continues by far to be the most stupid mistake the sa selectors keep on making. before we discovered brusouw, we kept on losing tests, nz/aus simply kept on taking the ball from our loosies like candy from a baby, ecpecially mcaw. schalk burger is and will never be a classical fetcher in the mold of brussouw or mcaw.
when brussouw burst onto the scene we started to dominate as we were not only a more complete team, but we had a weapon in our arsenal that we never had before. games are won on the ground as simple as that, if you do not have the ball how the hell can you score tries, someone please tell me this..??
why, why ,why.. this is soooooooooo stupid. ball carrying is not all that rugby is about you first have to make sure you can hold onto the pill, before you can bust tackles at will, move over the advantage line, gain momentum and then score tries. continuity guys. get steggman, or potties in if flo is for some reason not good enough..?
juan smit in a hardman but he too very one dimensional in this regard,and this unbalanced back row will be shown up to be as idiotic as the ones who selected them. to the selectors, please stop mocking our rugby, i am starting to think you are also being bought by some nz/aus conspiracy pushers, being paid to throw the games… well this i know is far fethced but what the hell man, some common sense….!! jeesh..!
11 Aug 2010, 15:44 pm
@geroom_sexwater(geroom_sexwater)-47:
Radical!
I’d go with:
6 – A confirmed, Bona Fide, Eye Gouger.
7 – A Rumoured Eye Gouger.
8 – A Potential exponent of the facial massage.
11 Aug 2010, 15:44 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-48: That is hte best news so far today :0
11 Aug 2010, 15:45 pm
@malema vs verwoerd(malema vs verwoerd)-52: great post
11 Aug 2010, 15:49 pm
@grant10(grant10)-55: It is not a great post. It will only be a great post if it is confirmed Flo won’t be picked.
@Panzer Chief(cane)-53:
I’d go with
6 a world cup winner
7 flo from WP
8 the gouging world cup winner
bench: the steriod user
Still, 2 world cup winners. AB haven’t had two world cup winner in their loose trio since Zinny & Jones last played.
11 Aug 2010, 15:50 pm
Cane .. you’d pick Brad Thorn @ 6 & Luaki @ 7 for the Boks?
11 Aug 2010, 15:52 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-53: And Kiwis woul always pick:
6. A tokoloshe
7. A half tokoloshe
8. A rumoured tokoloshe
Hmmm, Hobbits and gollums for the Middle Earth backline…
11 Aug 2010, 15:52 pm
@WP_(WP_)-46:
20 minutes for an impact is overrated. How many ball carries do you think he’ll get in 20 minutes?
If Pocock and McCaw are still operating at capacity at that stage, then it’ll be even less.
Burger played one game against bloody USA in an emergency. Where does this fascination with Burger the 8th man come from?
Can you imagine Burger having to fall back like an 8? Or accelerate like SPies from the scrum? Or kick?
Ja, me neither.
11 Aug 2010, 15:52 pm
My team for the current squad:
15 Frans Steyn
14 JP Pietersen
13 Juan de Jongh
12 Jean de Villers
11 Bryan Habana
10 Morne Steyn
9 Francois Hougaard
8 Schalk Burger
7 Juan Smith
6 Francois Louw
5 Victor Matfield
4 Danie Rossouw
3 BJ Botha
2 John Smit (c) (Possibility of moving him to 1 when Bismarck is back to full match fitness)
1 Gurthro Steenkamp
16 Bismark du Plessis
17 Beast Mtawarira
18 Flip van der Merwe (would keep an eye on Juandre Kruger for the future)
19 Pierre Spies (Impact)
20 Ricky Januarie (Because we have too)
21 Butch James
22 Gio Aplon
11 Aug 2010, 15:53 pm
@gecko(gecko)-56: NZ haven’t any world cup winners mate, without SA you can hardly call 1987 a World Cup
11 Aug 2010, 15:54 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-19: Um, no, not when you compare penalties conceded against minutes played. Flo comes out way ahead. Stegman looks better if you compare penalties per game, but as you know, he didn’t play nearly as much as FLO this season.
11 Aug 2010, 15:57 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-59: He was a brilliant cricketer and has brilliant hands. Could easily be an 8.
Well to be honest mate Spies has made bugger all impact in the last 3 tests for the full 80 so why not unleash him for shorter bursts to get him back to form (cant help but try wht difference will it make, the Tri Nations is gone. He can be put back at 8 later)
Spies is turning more and more into a Highveld bully. Doesnt do the hard yakker away from home like Burger ans Juan do.
If you hadnt realised, the world cup next year is in NZ, not at Loftus…
11 Aug 2010, 16:02 pm
What i dont understand is why Schalk Brits does not even get a mention – (european player of the year) and we mess with fatty and chilli – Brits will give us another dimension even if just an impact player. Politics and all that cr@p aside watson is still a better fetcher than Stegman or flou and would have been the option at 8 while Spies would be a perfect impact player with speed and power later in the game. Could rotate
Spies/Watson
Brusow/Schalk
Juan/Flou
11 Aug 2010, 16:05 pm
The difference between a good S14 player and an international player I believe will always be seen in the way in which they play their first international game. Now i was really looking forward to Louw and Kirchener for instance stepping up to the plate but compare the impact in their first internationals versus say the impact that Brussouw and Steyn or even Aplon had. This is not detracting from Louw’s abilities at all but the genuine internationals step up to the plate even in a losing side. I will however concede that his first international was away from home and that he was probably badly affected by jet-lag.
Other players who have not made the step up are Kanko and WO and whether that is also down to coaching or style of play, I don’t know.
11 Aug 2010, 16:06 pm
By the way this ones for Rangerman; Chelsea 1 Man Utd (Glory Glory) 3
11 Aug 2010, 16:06 pm
SA had a magnificent 3N last year.
MAGNIFICENT.
Irrefutable FACT.
But the World turns.
Veterans become The Aged.
What was once progress, becomes dated.
So far this year, they (The Springboks) have been disappointing.
FACT.
Unless something changes.
Next year looks ……………..well………… not good.
Time to bring in “New Blood” Okes.
11 Aug 2010, 16:07 pm
@Divz(Divz)-64: Because his line-out stats were in the bottom half of the Guinness Premier League.
11 Aug 2010, 16:08 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-62:
SB, that’s exactly what I said. But,
I also said Stegmann has far more BD stats were the penalties were conceded. If you correct for penalties concede off the ball (there are numerous), then Stegmann was still way more economical in “penalties per breakdown”.
Anyone who says that’s bull doesn’t understand the lengths these flanks go to to push the envelope. So My case stands- Flou is more of a penalty risk than Stegmann and/or is simply not as efficient at the breakdown.
11 Aug 2010, 16:10 pm
@WP_(WP_)-63:
I would rather have an inexperienced Vermeulen (at test level anyway, and he should’ve been an EBok last year and part of the squad make-up this year. I’ve never rated Kanko, next on the list is Alberts if he can improve his fitness)
11 Aug 2010, 16:13 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-69: Ah. Ok, but then again (and yes I’m being argumentative, I’m not as anti Stegman as I sometimes seem) this assumes the value purely from a breakdown perspective. Ignoring the other roles that FLO had to perform perhaps?
On the whole the Stormers had the best defensive record of the comp, and conceded the fewesty penalties and yellow cards of the tournament, so that also says something doesn’t it?
11 Aug 2010, 16:18 pm
I think we need to pick Smit as fetcher, that opens up the whole front row for merit selections
11 Aug 2010, 16:18 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-65:
For loosies to excel,
the tight 5 must be doing their job.
Either holding their own,
or dominating the opposing Team.
For backs to excel,
it certainly helps if the 8 forwards are doing their bit.
Louw and Kirchner, are having a somewhat less than ideal intro to International rugby.
11 Aug 2010, 16:20 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-71:
Yes, but Flou isn’t the Stormers, you see?
And also Flou did wear 7 on his back- he didn’t really fulfil the openside setpiece duties of a 6. And Burger relied on Flou for the BD “benadering”. So the only “full package” left is Brussow/Steggies.
11 Aug 2010, 16:22 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-72:
I think that could really work- he could support his immense weight with the necessary both hands, and then snap up the ball with his big mouth.
11 Aug 2010, 16:24 pm
BRING BACK LUKE!
11 Aug 2010, 16:26 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-76:
Yeah, to remind us of how bad things really could be…
11 Aug 2010, 16:30 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-77: Brussouw injured, Stegmann injured, Burger playing like a 7, Flo not selected(?) – Watson suddenly seems an OK option. Saw him turn over a lot of ball for Bath.
11 Aug 2010, 16:31 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-73: yeah agreed but I’m not even talking about excelling. Even in a match where a side is being totally dominated players of international calibre when given the chance they manage to step up to the plate. They have an unshakeable belief in their own ability and you may only catch glimpses of it in a first international but its there.
11 Aug 2010, 16:31 pm
This 3N is boring………..
And you know why!
It’s because YOUR Team SUCKS.
Now,
You Okes are SA, The Springboks, The World Champs.
Current 3N Title holders.
Holders of the Mandela Hub-Cap and the Freedom Trophy.
Get
your
shiit
together.
……………………………….cause cane is bored.
11 Aug 2010, 16:33 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-77: haha
F louw is just to slow for open side @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-74: i thin you are right ,open side flank is now such a vital position -and unfortunately i think that an opensider has to be quick ,fairly athletic and powerfull -and about 6,2 -stegman ,botes ,brussow and even other louw are ideal
11 Aug 2010, 16:35 pm
He, he, as far as I’m concerned the Boks could play a human mole in the back row and he’d never steal a ball away from Oz or NZ. All he’d do would be to concede penalties to well-primed trigger happy refs. I hope I’m wrong and that Paddy O’ Bumchum let’s us have chance now that NZ have won the TN.
11 Aug 2010, 16:35 pm
why is that face mugging bonehead neanderthal still in my team? Burger if you want to play as a fetcher then play as a fetcher or just piss off.
11 Aug 2010, 16:35 pm
@gecko(gecko)-78:
it seems not to be the same over there in the NH. Look what Flou did to France when they came over hereb in June.
11 Aug 2010, 16:37 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-77:
The Luke Watson Saga,
was a tragedy for All.
Do you think he doesn’t feel the pain.
11 Aug 2010, 16:39 pm
@baw(maxed)-81:
Brus/Steg aren’t even 6 foot tall. That’s good since the low centre of grabity helps them sstay on their feet as they steal the ball. They are compact and powerfully built and squat all day long. So that’s what I prefer.
11 Aug 2010, 16:39 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-80: The 3N is a boring 2 bit TV tournament… It has no heritage and definitely does suck. SA woul be better off going it alone, synchronising with NH test scheduling, and longer tours annually midyear (3 tests and 4 midweek games) with a tour to the antipodes every 2 years… Also regular games against a strong Pumas side with all players available due to NH synchronicity…
The kissing cousins can stick to their beloved bledisloe and can bring in Japan…
Geographically and schedule wise it makes sense. It will also preserve the status of the CC which will be pressured by this S15 aberration.
Also the Boks can get out of the 3way gangbang where one keeps giving and two keep taking…
11 Aug 2010, 16:39 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-75: Make the ball from chocolate or pork pies and Smit would grab it
11 Aug 2010, 16:40 pm
not sure why the coaches are persisting with spies. also surely its far too big a gamble to push juan smit straight into a test match vs the ABs without at least a CC game or two.
11 Aug 2010, 16:41 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-85:
I’m told sticking your finger down your oesophagus has that affect.
11 Aug 2010, 16:42 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-88:
JA, but then he won’t pass it
11 Aug 2010, 16:42 pm
and so PE will be hosting a 3N match next year at the expense of either the WP or the FS … it is nice to see the minnow unions denying the other small stadium unions some vital income. From next year onwards it will be soccer city every year and 2 others, oh it is true.
11 Aug 2010, 16:42 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-79:
Some grow into their role,
and some are born to it.
give them time Bananarama.
or:-
BRING BACK LUKE!
8)
11 Aug 2010, 16:44 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-86: yep its realy ashame the stegman hasnt been given a chance becuase just his workrate is realy great …tackle tackle tackle ! and he fetches ,i would just worry about his technique in fetching ,for my money i would rather have stegman in a bok jersey then his blonde mate on the other side of the scrum
11 Aug 2010, 16:45 pm
Funny my selection would have been 6. Flo 7. Potgieter 8. Schalk with Juan on the bench; with Brussow and Stegman injured
Yip they’ve learnt nothing
11 Aug 2010, 16:47 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-80: We just need to get a fetcher, then we can actually compete with you guys. Until then Im just going to sit and moan at the ref
11 Aug 2010, 16:50 pm
@RedLion is born again(RL)-92: I hear you and think the same.
11 Aug 2010, 16:51 pm
@baw(maxed)-94:
(Just between you and me- that would mean an entire back row of Bulls, kinda like they’re punting the entire Stromers back row now). Of course this has great benefit in the fluidity and communications of the combo. But politically?)
What’s wrong with his technique? Fooled the trigger-happy Craig Joubert when it mattered most- and what was the end-result? Fantastic. You don’t have to worry about it, our opponents do.
11 Aug 2010, 16:52 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-90:
Would your personal conversations pass the same kind of scrutiny as those passed on Lukes?
I can assure you Tyrant……………….. Mine would not.
And judging but the comments on here,
many of those that condemn Luke, would not pass such scrutiny either.
11 Aug 2010, 16:53 pm
@baw(maxed)-94:
Oh, I misread! “rather Stegmann then his blonde mate” OK, gotcha. I agree 100%
Potties can’t feature with Stegmann, Burger and Brussow and Juan there.
11 Aug 2010, 16:54 pm
Bring back Jerry Collins – a truly rare specimen… an honourable Kiwi.
11 Aug 2010, 16:54 pm
@Panzer Chief(cane)-99:
Mine usually consist of grunts an clicks. So I don’t mind.
11 Aug 2010, 16:56 pm
Great article JC but Louw is not the answer as back up to Brussow, either Stegman or maybe the other Louw
11 Aug 2010, 16:57 pm
Agile *** tyrant
Stegmann is very overrated. I agree Vermeulen deserves to be in the bok mix, he is much better than kankow
11 Aug 2010, 17:01 pm
@WP_(WP_)-104: We dont really have a backup to Brussow as we’ve seen this year unfortunately. I think Stegmann is the next best thing but def not in Brussow’s league
11 Aug 2010, 17:07 pm
Ag Cardinelle, jy praat jou gewone blerrie twak al weer. Hoeveel keer moet ek jou se Kankowski het nog nie eers n behoorlike kans gehad om te speel nie, so hou op met jou persoonlike vendetta deur te se hy kan dit nie maak nie. Wynand het 32 games gekry, ja, vrek, die ou is poateties, skryf gemors oor hom. Maar selfs Flouw het al meer speelkans gehad as Kanko, so dis nie regtig regverdig om te se die ou het nie die skietgoed as ons hom nog nie eers n kans gegee het nie.
Jitte Cardinelli, imagine as Keo jou na jou eerste 4 artikels gepos het omdat die soortgelyk was aan die twak wat jy hier kwyt raak, jy sal mos ook nie dink dis regverdig nie. Maar ja, jy fantiseer seker oor n Flouw Burger threesome, so ons vergewe jou dat jy so aanhou om te push vir sy insluiting. En boonop, hoekom huil jy ook Kanko se insluiting, hy is n agste man. Jy kla oor n flank wat nie daar is nie, en dan se jy dis omdat hulle n agsteman gekies het. As jy Flouw in die begin span wil sien, kerm en kla dan oor hoekom Burger en Smith gekies word.
Jou daaglikse gesanik raak nou net te veel.
11 Aug 2010, 17:08 pm
@WP_(WP_)-104: lees jy ook maar sommer my comments aan Cardinelli. Sanik ook oor n agsteman wat gekies is, maar eintlik moet julle kla dat daar n ander flank in die plek van julle loverboy is.
11 Aug 2010, 17:15 pm
@WP_(WP_)-104:
If that’s the case then Brussow is overrated.
If it’s just my opinion vs your opinion- what of it?
As you know, I firmly believe Stegmann is better than Brussow.
What happened to these two Grey boys?
Look- after highschool the Bulls wanted Stegmann and away he went. Brussow debuted in the S14 a year earlier than Steggies as the Cheetahs had less competition for him there. (2007)
In 2008, Stegmann debuts in the nightmare Bulls year- but is still nominated as Bulls forward of the year.
2009 comes around and Stegmann really leads Brussow but misses a third of the S14 with an unfortunate ban.
But Brussow Bok-debuted in 2008 for 5 minutes, and was then the only choice to backk Burger when the latter got a ban too.
then 2010, Stegmann has another great season, (and he is on his way for another Bulls forward of the year nomination BTW), but what happens? The Stormers actually make the finals and now they’re the cats whiskers and Flou gets chosen ahead of Stegmann- not to mention every uninformed tom d ick and harry jumping on the bandwagon claiming Stegmann is a liability, having a good deal of hatred for the bulls in anyway.
So where does that leave us? In this situation with the Boks out of sorts. Now Steggies got injured in a nothing CC match.
Your opinoin is that Flou is better than Steggies, mine is that Stegmann>Brussow>Flou.
Any questions?
11 Aug 2010, 17:23 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-108: What was that middle bit again…?
11 Aug 2010, 17:25 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-108:
Ok, to summarize (in case a misquotes comes);
Stegmann was good enough to take Brussow’s place in every year since 2008.
But as you can see, every year there was a different issue.
(I forgot to mention that Stegmann also tore an ankle ligament in the S14 final against the CHiefs at Loftus in the process stealing a ball- that also helped cut him out of the June Bok picture for sure. His most recent injury – tearing his hammy whilst securing a T/O ball/penalty also put him out of contenton for the meanwhile, when it seems we could’ve really used him.
See? Everytime something pops up. I Stegmann stayed at eh Cheetahs and Brusswo went to the Bulls, it would be Stegmann that everybody would be calling for at the Boks)
11 Aug 2010, 17:27 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-109:
BUT! Don’t despair! post 110 is just for you!
11 Aug 2010, 17:29 pm
Be back in a bit…
11 Aug 2010, 17:29 pm
The problems with the Boks:
No Watson
No Rose
11 Aug 2010, 17:31 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-111: Have you seen “A Fish Called Wanda”?
So to summarise your summation:
Laste year Brussouw was picked for the Boks. This year he was injured and Flo was picked.
Stegman….lets see… oh yes. Still playing CC. Or not as the case may be at the moment?
11 Aug 2010, 17:38 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-114:
Ja I did see that…
I that stuttering twit that can’t get the job done, aren’t I? *Sigh* Just trying to help.
11 Aug 2010, 17:40 pm
Where is Grant10?
I heard a bird tweet that John Smit might call it a day after his 100th cap, don’t know if the bird tweeted earlier and I missed it, if it did I’m sorry for the old gossip.
11 Aug 2010, 17:42 pm
@JA-JA(JA-JA)-116:
How’s that?
11 Aug 2010, 17:47 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-117: I just heard a rumour today that he might retire after the Soccer City game..it could be a load of BS.
11 Aug 2010, 17:48 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-117: If it’s true Grant10 is going to be over the moon.
11 Aug 2010, 17:48 pm
@JA-JA(JA-JA)-118:
Now,now. Speedos are not all machine-washable you know.Please give Grant some consideration…
11 Aug 2010, 17:50 pm
@JA-JA(JA-JA)-119:
He probably hasn’t posted yet, seeing as his keyboard shorted out with all the drooling…
11 Aug 2010, 17:50 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-115: No, the Kevin Cline character, the bungling dimwitted villian Otto always said that after people gave him a long story. I think his attention span was somewhat limited. I always say that after a long post. Not that I’m immune to long posts myself, but like everyone else on this site, I’m also not immune to hypocrisy.
PS it’s not that I was particularly bored by your posts, it’s just my social innapropriateness disorder (as my wife diagnosed it) coming out.
11 Aug 2010, 17:51 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-120: Would be weird not seeing him there, if it happens think Matfield going to lead the Boks to the WC.
11 Aug 2010, 17:52 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-122:
Oooo, I don’t think I have that one yet- trade?
11 Aug 2010, 17:54 pm
@JA-JA(JA-JA)-123:
Matties is a year older isn’t he?
I honestly thought Smitty was just gonna hold out till the BIL and retire after a marvellous 2009- but then he didn’t.
I still think Smit is the second best hooker in SA (when fit).
11 Aug 2010, 17:56 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-125: Yes agree when fit, as said before by a few people here, he needs rest and the right training program and only start playing again next season.
11 Aug 2010, 17:57 pm
Wagagagagaga! JC throws a rant because one of his hyped up WP boys might not be picked. The same Louw that got found out badly on tour? Subbed soon after halftime on debut and utterley average in the next match. We have better loosies and he’s surplus to requirement.
11 Aug 2010, 18:00 pm
@King Shaka(zulu shark)-127:
Ja, but Flo is such a cool name. Just feel it roll off your tongue… “Flllloooooooooo…”
11 Aug 2010, 18:01 pm
Right! This is getting rather silly!
Time for something completely different.
11 Aug 2010, 18:02 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-124: What you got to trade? OCD I already have, and Stegman envy i don’t want thanks. I already have Pieter Louw envy. Although, and let me be clear on this, not, I repeat NOT Pieter Louw HAIR ENVY….
11 Aug 2010, 18:05 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-129: Monty Python?
11 Aug 2010, 18:07 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-130:
lololololololol
ADD?
11 Aug 2010, 18:07 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-130:
PhD?
11 Aug 2010, 18:08 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-131:
…and the Boks brainstrust circus.
11 Aug 2010, 18:10 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-130:
Skoppies might be able to interest you in MPD…
11 Aug 2010, 18:13 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-135: LOL yes thanks but I struggle to multitask at the best of times.@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-133: In? I’m a bit “studied out” but I thought that Social Inappropriateness comes automatically with a PHD.
11 Aug 2010, 18:14 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-134: Who would be your nomination for “Upper Class Twit of the Year”?
11 Aug 2010, 18:14 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-136:
In? In the ground dude.
11 Aug 2010, 18:15 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-137:
On this site?
11 Aug 2010, 18:15 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-137:
Pretentious BOD…
11 Aug 2010, 18:25 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-140: LOL. sure why not. I was more on the Shaun langenhoven train, but he’s not very upper class so I guess he doesn’t count..
11 Aug 2010, 18:31 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-141:
No, shame man. I really felt bad after I saw his profile photo- like when negotiators show hostage takers pathetic pictures of their victim’s family etc.
11 Aug 2010, 18:34 pm
I’m out, talking c rap all day has made me hungry.
11 Aug 2010, 18:35 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-143:
But then again, I’d happily take a dump on a JC thread anyday…
11 Aug 2010, 19:12 pm
@JA-JA(JA-JA)-118: seriosly?
About a year overdue.
Will be cool to be able to choose on merit again
11 Aug 2010, 19:21 pm
‘it’s clear the current breakdown laws demand the inclusion of somebody who plays to the ball.’
and how exactly did Louw’s selection on the Bok tour assist with this?
11 Aug 2010, 19:25 pm
Also JC, Burger isn’t a number 8, he’s played there at test level before without a great deal of success. SA don’t currently have a fetcher that can compete with McCaw and Pocock, imo the best bet is to drop pick 3 grafters in the backrow, Smith, Burger and Potgieter (maybe Alberts).
11 Aug 2010, 19:25 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-147: * drop Spies (not up to it)
11 Aug 2010, 19:29 pm
Keo fire up a new thread there simply entitled Poaching Sharks Exposed
Yes that is right Mapoe was ordered to retun to that one horse town, Bloemfontein as the standard SARPA player’s contract that Mapoe signed with his own hand is solid … the same contract that all my Lions are now on.
oh it is true.
11 Aug 2010, 19:31 pm
Okay general question…
How does one rate an opensider (as being better than the next)?
What does one look for?
11 Aug 2010, 19:32 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-150:
Damn 150…
Okay general question…
How does one rate an opensider (as being better than the next)?
What does one look for?
11 Aug 2010, 19:33 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-150: well under NH refs in the 3N, currently you’d have to say it’s the ability to cheat without getting caught
11 Aug 2010, 19:36 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-152:
Or make your opensider captain!!!
Schalk almost had no penalties against him in the S14 either!!!
11 Aug 2010, 20:12 pm
Oh pants.
Howcome Helium de Villiers and some others can’t see what is so blatantly obvious?
When I were a wee lad I saw the AB’s in Durbs and the wings threw the ball at the linout. Various other countries tried that for a while but it proved not to be the best method. And NO-ONE has done that for probably 35 years.
So why are we the only country in the world not to play a fetcher at no.7? Grr, we can’t even get the numbers right with Schalk playing open-side with a 6 on his back.
BRING IN A REAL 7!!
That’s all.
11 Aug 2010, 20:18 pm
@DontThinkJustWonder(DontThinkJustWonder)-154: yes
its frustrating.
11 Aug 2010, 20:29 pm
I’m not too sure about some of the names mentioned here! And i’m not too sure of the last two paragraphs are a whinge
More opensiders queue behind magical mccaw
Rob Penney
OPINION: Watching the All Blacks beat
Australia on Saturday, it was hard not to
reflect yet again on what a fantastic player
Richie McCaw is.
But it also got me thinking about some of
our other openside flankers in New Zealand.
Three or four years ago I would’ve said that
we were a bit thin in that area but now
there’s a depth of sevens coming through
that is really exciting. If you want like-for-
like with Richie, in terms of robustness
around the breakdown, then George
Whitelock is as good as anyone. If the All
Blacks selectors want a big physical man to
do a big physical job, then George will do
that.
If they’re looking for something different,
say a player who’s a wee bit more wide-
ranging but still effective around the
breakdown, then Adam Thomson has been
tried and has done a good job there.
Then you’ve got someone like Tanerau
Latimer, who’s probably more of a fetcher
and has a good linking game, but is
probably less confrontational around the
fringes. Then there’s Daniel Braid, who’s
come back and is still finding his feet, and
Onosa’i Auva’a who’s got some physicality
about him but is maybe less accurate.
People might accuse me of bias but, aside
from George, we’ve got a couple of other
kids in our group who deserve a mention
too.
There’s Matt Todd, who I think is just a
magician, and while he’s playing at six for
us at the moment he’ll be an amazing
opensider in time. The other one is Brendon
O’Connor, who was a New Zealand under-20
player a year or so ago.
So if Richie was ever to get injured, the next
person in there might not be the star that
he is but I think there’s enough experience
and ability in that All Blacks group now to
compensate for that.
While I’m on the subject of guys who have
the skills to be a part of the All Blacks, I have
to mention Wyatt Crockett, who seems to be
one of those players that people have the
wrong impression of. When we played
Manawatu last Thursday night he was a
dominant part of a strong scrum and yet he
was penalised a few times. To me, that’s
down to pre-conception.
You look at the pictures and you think how
does a scrummager that’s fairly
demolishing his opposite get penalised? It
can only come back to reputation.
* Rob Penney is the coach of the
Canterbury ITM Cup team.
11 Aug 2010, 20:37 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-153:
Incorrect (if you believe Stegmann is a liability), he had only 2 less than Stegmann I believe.
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-151:
-Toughness;
-fearlessness;
-speed-quick to the breakdown and the ability to anticipate where the next one will occur, and quick breakaway from the scrum and react from defence to support;
-fitness (one of the fittest guys in the team generally);
-balance- good core strength;
-a feel for the ref and ablity to adapt;
-good technique in securing the ball for possesion or penalties;
-showing the ability to absorb pressure (some guys just lose it) and operate under it and push the offside line/ scrumbind/develop a knack for handling the ball on the ground or holding on just long enough;
-good cleaning/clearing technique and ball placement;
-a team player- there are no glory boys here;
-responsiveness (reaction time);
-explosiveness;
-in certain cases one could take the flank’s build into account;
-all round ability to communicate to the ref constantly, clearly and manipulatively;
-fighting spirit (which is difficult to measure anyway).
Those are general things to look at, but it’s entirely down to the coaches discretion.
11 Aug 2010, 20:39 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-157:
Tackle technique too- guys got to tackle everything that moves- assignment number one.
11 Aug 2010, 20:50 pm
What on earth is thepoint of arguing about whether Stegmann is better than Flo or not regarding the Soweto match? He isn’t available, that’s it.
Flo was the original easy choice because of his successful partnership with Schalk in the S14. His lack of success was due more to the ABs cleaning him out as they committed more men to the rucks, than on any lack of ability.
The problem now is, that the 4 loosies likely to be in the 22 is an attempt to replicate Jakes success, but if anything happens to Juan, we’re back to the same guys that got creamed by the Wobblies.
11 Aug 2010, 21:10 pm
It’s a right royal f’up allround, I dunno what the they see in Kanko and spies on present form – we also need to get our tight 5 back with some clout and engine, mayfield and smit are not that engine at present, kevin mealamu is a monster in the tightloose, god only knows why those clots dropped him in the first place.
11 Aug 2010, 21:20 pm
@DontThinkJustWonder(DontThinkJustWonder)-154:
‘So why are we the only country in the world not to play a fetcher at no.7?’
you’re not,
Argentina – Leguizamon
England – Moody
Ireland – Wallace
Italy – Bergamasco
SA – Burger
the teams that use fetchers, to my knowledge:
Australia – David Pocock
New Zealand – Suarez McCheat
Wales – Martyn Williams
I think France play a left/right system with Dusatoir and either Ouedrago/Bonnaire/Nyanga. Fiji have Qera who is something of a hybrid.
11 Aug 2010, 21:21 pm
I’m just praying for Barnesey, whose not afraid to ping his royal cheatiness Richie the 3rd
11 Aug 2010, 21:22 pm
@cab(cab)-160:
Hore is a stronger scrummager, that’s all. Kevin was always brought on as an impact player off the bench.
11 Aug 2010, 21:22 pm
I’m just praying for Barnesey, whose unafraid to ping his royal cheatiness Richie the 3rd
11 Aug 2010, 21:25 pm
@David(David)-163: Hore is a better thrower I think too, or at least that was the conventional wisdom prior to the 3N. Hore is good at getting in amongst the maul, but NZ have dealt well with it in his absence.
11 Aug 2010, 21:27 pm
To those wussie complaining negativists – I suspect these Boks and PdV will have the last laugh here…
Then Keo will really be interesting if those “Old”, “slow”, “skill less” Boks and that “stupid”, “clownlike”, “incompetent” coaching team do manage to win the last 3 games of the 3N…
But one supposes there are no similar credibility issues with many commentors and journo’s on this site…
11 Aug 2010, 21:28 pm
I see I’m also managing to duplicate me dribble -great the truth needs to be told, about the greatest cheat to ever play the game.
David, sorry was getting on the old soap box fir a wee hark forth – u reckon hore is better come scrumtine, I thought they picked him for his turnover rate, which was huge. He is a great player, it’s just dem AB tight 5 unit look mean again when he returns
11 Aug 2010, 21:35 pm
Sorry when mealamu returns, yeah think they initially got rid of him on the premise of his throwing, meanwhile mayfield was taking their jumpers to the cleaners – never been a jumper like matfield – my ball is my ball and your ball is my ball – problem is he can’t do much else, should pick him at 8 apart from lineout otherwise he’s got the speed and tackling – contributes absolutely naught to the tight
11 Aug 2010, 21:38 pm
@cab(cab)-167:
You’re right about Hores turnovers. The ABs have great choices at 2.
11 Aug 2010, 22:25 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-161: Excellent observation – no doubt should induce a goldfish like reaction (blurb, blurb) from many “fetcher” enthusiasts who hanker after all things antipodean, but it won’t…
…Eyes Wide Shut
11 Aug 2010, 22:28 pm
We always knew they would field a Burger-Smith-Spies trio for Soccer City.
No surprise there.
Expect the Boks to have less than 45% ball, yet again.
11 Aug 2010, 22:31 pm
@willievz(willievz)-171: The problem is compounded by the fact that our hooker is not known for his foraging either.
In the absence of a mobile hooker, you need two deck players, preferrably at 6 and 8.
If you play a mobile hooker, you can get away with one deck player.
11 Aug 2010, 22:32 pm
Francois Louw was weighed and found wanting.
11 Aug 2010, 22:32 pm
@willievz(willievz)-171: You will find that the Boks, contrary to conventional wisdom and rules of thumb, tend to win the majority of their games with less than 50% possession. Its the nature of the optimal Bok beast…
11 Aug 2010, 22:48 pm
Bafanax2 seem 2 have turned the corner now its the time for the Bokke.
11 Aug 2010, 22:48 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-170: I would take the teams with fetchers to beat everyone else.
So your argument is at best spurious, at worst null & void.
11 Aug 2010, 22:49 pm
@willievz(willievz)-171: And the territory stat will be worse.
11 Aug 2010, 22:52 pm
anyone still maintaining fetchers are superfulous have size issues….probably linked to the size of there wieners….
For years we were bliksemed by Mc Caw///waugh….g smith….
Along comes Brussow and whoopsie bloody daisy Boks win again.
No brussow and we back down the loo….
Cmon….doesent take a clever oke to see we being done at the breakdow….6 bloody love
11 Aug 2010, 22:54 pm
should have gone with
8 dewalt potgieter
6 louw
7 schalk
without any doubt.
Hope boks play at least F louw…..now that dewalt deemed surplus
11 Aug 2010, 22:54 pm
@grant10(grant10)-178: The fact in cold relief is this:
Our S14 teams are coached differently to the Springbok team.
The Bulls & Stormers win, the Boks are down 3-zip.
It’s not only the fetcher issue (which is an issue) but much larger concerns.
11 Aug 2010, 22:55 pm
spies….j smith amnd Schalk…..
what a load of bollocks.
No difference there to the trio that got done in Brisbane by pocock
11 Aug 2010, 22:57 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-180: for sure…agree.
I chatted to a mate earlier….said i truly believe boks can win in 2011…..
but it will take Regime change….and Plod will need to walk…..
It wont be pretty
11 Aug 2010, 22:58 pm
It’s like watching a train smash in slow motion.
11 Aug 2010, 22:59 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-183: ja
its bloody painful…..
11 Aug 2010, 23:00 pm
@grant10(grant10)-179: Some guys were suggesting this last night:
6. Flo
7. Juan
8. Burger
Spies off the bench.
I thought that was quite interesting. The men would be strong in the tackle and in the ensuing tackle & maul clean out. Protecting Flo and the ball.
My biggest concern with Schalk at 8 is not his “brains” – I think he is a great rugby player, I just don’t know about his hands in the scrum, especially a scrum going backwards or fragmenting.
11 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
the 3 stooges are blundering from poor selections to poor strategy to poor discipline…..its almost laughable….if it wasnt so sad!
11 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-183: Can we just tie the 3 Stooges to the tracks.
Do the same thing, expect a different result. Dof.
11 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-176: When, between World Cups. I suppose your argument depends on winning priorities… But hey history and a style of play means nothing, hence “null & void”… Whatafarkinglaugh…
11 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
I know I am coming to this a bit late…
Why is Kankowski being dismissed so out of hand. He was about 20% better than Spies in the last match, even though he played flank.
Kankowski is more of a classic 8th man at the moment. His linking play is better, he seems to be in the right places more often, he only lacks the grunt, but that could come from the flanks and a more athletic lock (ours are great but in need of a bit of rest). I think he is more in the mould of a Teichman, rather than a Straulei.
WIth Smith playing 7 (burger sub) and F Louw or even Potgieter, we could start to get some balance.
11 Aug 2010, 23:03 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-185: ja
i would never play schalk at 8.
i know willie punts that as well….and he knows his stuff, but not for me. I have watched schalk for years….he aint no 8…..
11 Aug 2010, 23:05 pm
@The Bill(The Bill)-189: agree mate.
Kanko far better than spies.
If we have to have a show pony….i would go with kanko before spies.
Spies has been a disgrace….an absolute passenger….with plod the 2 worst bloody boks on tour
11 Aug 2010, 23:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-188: Boet. Winning the World Cup in 2007 does not make me feel any better when I get fkd up in 2010. Losing is losing, show me a good loser and I will show you a loser.
11 Aug 2010, 23:07 pm
mALLET….PLEASE COME HOME MATE…
11 Aug 2010, 23:07 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-174: It just shows you how dominant we can be if we had better ball retention skills on offense!
The key issue, of course, is quality of possession.
In the absence of a fetcher, you are almost always going to have less than 50& possession. A fetcher does not guarantee more possession (as you rightly pointed out), but it does ensure better quality possession on your offense and slower ruck ball for the opposition offense.
The way things stand for Soccer City, the ABs are more likely to obtain and retain quality possession, and we won’t be able to stop the wave.
11 Aug 2010, 23:09 pm
WATERSHED YEAR…..
2010….I STILL SEE MAJOR CHANGES…..SOMMER SOON AS WELL….
tHE BEGINNING OF THE END FOR THE fAT bOYS cLUB.
mATTER OF TIME….MAYBE JUST A FEW SHORT WEEKS.
Sorry caps
11 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-185: Soda, controlling the ball at the back of the scrum is Burger’s only true disadvantage.
And to be fair, Spies is damn good at that.
11 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
Schalk played 8 against the Yanks at RWC 2007 and was kak. Butchered at least one pushover try.
11 Aug 2010, 23:11 pm
@grant10(grant10)-191: Yup. With the greatest respect, I heard you the first time, all the times in between & now the last time. I know you are no fan of Spies, Smit & coaches.
I am concerned that we have sooo many good loose forwards at the moment, but missing the key ingredient of a fetcher – with Brussow out.
One thing I will say, with everyone expressing so many different opinions it is not an easy call for the coaches.
11 Aug 2010, 23:12 pm
@willievz(willievz)-196: Ja. I agree. Spies had to perform behind a back-pedaling pack for so long he became an expert.
11 Aug 2010, 23:13 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-177: I am an advocate of the school that claims territory is more important than possession.
Only just though.
11 Aug 2010, 23:14 pm
@grant10(grant10)-195: Grant by all means call out John Smit and Pierre Spies – but a perpetual insult just makes you seem hysterical.
Plod this, Plod that, fat this fat that. I just think you demean yourself rather than add some criticism to the table.
IMHO.
11 Aug 2010, 23:15 pm
@willievz(willievz)-200: Chicek or the egg.
But I would rather play in the other guys half personally.
11 Aug 2010, 23:15 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-197: I suppose you weren’t the adjudicator that handed him his MOTM accolade.
11 Aug 2010, 23:15 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-192: You will only give yourself a heart attack. When the top 3 sides play each year, you are bound to lose a few each year or over the duration of a few years we will win some & lose some.
If you take life too seriously, it will kill you!
11 Aug 2010, 23:17 pm
@The Bill(The Bill)-198:Last year when Brussow was carving up all and sundry i said the most nb person in sa rugby is Steggmann. I constantly called for his inclusion in bok squad…..as he was and is the closest thing we have to brussow.
For me one of those 2 needs to be on the park at all times…..
But these 3 stooges are so confused….its simply ludicrous.
They have contracted themselves into a pickle and now are 13 months out and diont know there arse from there elbows.
Never have i been as frustrated and the moer in with a bok set up as i am today.
Circus….and thats being kind.
11 Aug 2010, 23:17 pm
@willievz(willievz)-200: I think you will find the Ozzie & AB games will show that to be wrong. This only works when you have limited players who cannot play with the ball. It is not something to celebrate, but something we should work on.
11 Aug 2010, 23:18 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-192: And if the Boks win the remaining 3 3N?
Nevertheless I doubt that winning this years 3N was the ultimate goal for the Boks…
You can’t win everything all of the time with the same players – impossible, even if tactics / strategy are optimal. So priorities are important. A bok coach is appointed with the prime obj. of winning the WC with a minimum Win % (not 100%). I suspect NH Grandslam this year is the priority for this team. That makes sense whether you or other rather emotional supporters like it or not. I agree with this – let the Kiwis win and be favourites – put them on a pedestal….
The shrewd observer will know that all things being equal this Bok setup is second to none…
So all the prissy blind negativists can take these “voids” and shove it up their “nulls”…
11 Aug 2010, 23:19 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-202: Your endowments at disposal should play a part here.
We have a good lineout and a weak counterattack.
So yes, play in their half.
11 Aug 2010, 23:19 pm
@willievz(willievz)-203: I was waiting for that. I still think he was kak.
11 Aug 2010, 23:19 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-202: Chicken. Or may be that is a Chechen Chicken. Chicek. We will take on Nando’s.
Or maybe it’s one of those girls who look great from far but not from close – “hey look at that chic…ek”.
11 Aug 2010, 23:19 pm
@The Bill(The Bill)-206: Absolutely, see post 208.
11 Aug 2010, 23:20 pm
@The Bill(The Bill)-204: Sergeant Stone. I agree. But paying this years bills(haha) with checks from 2007 will make you bankrupt.
11 Aug 2010, 23:21 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-201: hysterical?
Good heavens….
The oke is fat….unfit and a liability…..
never knew facts made anyone ‘hysterical’
11 Aug 2010, 23:22 pm
@grant10(grant10)-205: Can’t say I disagree, but I don’t think Stegman is close to Brussow.
Unfortunately we don’t seem to have a decent 2nd fetcher – in the whole country. To be fair as a sharks fan, I haven’t watched Stegman that closely.
One thing I will say, I was always thought Deysel was quite a good in a fetcher role – although not employed as one, he is quite good on the deck.
For now, PDV should focus on finding some more of these players.
11 Aug 2010, 23:24 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-207: Bud. I was vilified on Keo for saying rest all the big guns against the Italians, etc.
We haven’t tried anything new at all. Niks Null Nought. For our sins we took a carrot up the nought.
For fear of turning in to another repetitive Keo blogger: Don’t expect different results by doing the same thing over and over. The Boks are coached differently to the S14 franchises who win and the Boks lose – draw your own conclusions.
11 Aug 2010, 23:25 pm
anyway
outta here let me get some rest….i have no doubt tomorrow will see the Circus once again in full swing.
Wait till they drop Guthro for Plod….then you will see farken hysterical.
11 Aug 2010, 23:25 pm
@willievz(willievz)-208: Ag boet beating us is easy – match us physically, keep the ball, run us off our feet. Bob’s your auntie.
11 Aug 2010, 23:25 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-209: Well you will find that most Saffas agree with you, and disagree with me.
I have been crying out for him at nr8 in 2006 already, and although I am not advocating this as fiercely as back then, I still think there is merit in trying him out there, especially as his career is starting to hug the twilight zone.
Maybe I am squeezing blood out of a stone.
11 Aug 2010, 23:26 pm
ok I reckon this little GPS tracking system that shows Johnny boy tracking up the touch line arm in arm with gabba PdV signifies one thing IM not so humble Opinion. I reckon blue eyed Johnny is about to chuck in the towel all things being equal.
Din’t be categorically surprised if come next Sunday morning and a declaration is made that Our Man John has donned the bok tracksuit as ‘convenor of coaches’ or ‘special envoy to hooking strategical consultancy’ or something along those auspicious lines.
Also Spies and Kanko should be out the loop. Should be Pottie, Smith, Burger in that order with Louw and Spies off bench 5/2 split.
11 Aug 2010, 23:27 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-217: Yes, and moer the tighthead early in the game.
Classic yarpie poison.
It is utterly frustrating to see us struggling as I don’t think either the ABs or the Wallabies are good teams. I honestly don’t.
11 Aug 2010, 23:28 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-207:
The Boks are expected to win the home leg games – the fact that they play the game against the AB’s at altitude will be a levelling factor as the AB’s will not be able to play their fast pace game.
Unfortunately the wc will be played in NZ – so I will read nothing in a win at Joeys but have seen enough during the last month to make me doubt whether this bok team has a realistic chance to win two wc’s in a row.
11 Aug 2010, 23:29 pm
@grant10(grant10)-213: G10, I think you will find being hysetrical about the facts (opinion) still makes you hysterical.
I look at this blog once every 2 or 3 days, & I am now fully aware of your contempt for your new axis of evil…
It is being said, without malice by many people on this blog, perhaps you should reflect on this and perhaps consider that there is some truth to what people are saying.
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-212: Fair enough, but we haven’t accrued any interest since 2007, so we are now looking for new investment…
11 Aug 2010, 23:30 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-217:
Hey Joe,
Are you still ok, and battling on here at keo?
How are you doing at the moment.
And… I am listening to “Band of Horses” as I am typing.
“Weed Party” to be specific
11 Aug 2010, 23:32 pm
@willievz(willievz)-218: I think Schalk is a great blindside flank. Let him think he’s a fetcher – it doesn’t matter. He doesn’t play like one. But I think we need someone a little more polished at 8. I like Vermeulen – or maybe even van Niekerk.
11 Aug 2010, 23:34 pm
@willievz(willievz)-220: Can’t agree with you on the All Blacks. Just lovely to watch if you’re a neutral, all polish and power and grace.
Mils is phenomenal at the moment, making a real stake to be a AB all time great.
Their coaching is terrific, and yes at this level guile is an asset, no matter how much we bleat about “cheating”.
We need to get our sh it together.
11 Aug 2010, 23:35 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-219: Dream on. It would be great if Smit decided to pack it in now, but I can’t see it happening. He’ll be in New Zealand next year. If he gets in shape, that won’t be a bad thing. If he deosn’t but continues to start Tests, we’re screwed.
11 Aug 2010, 23:35 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-221: aye
11 Aug 2010, 23:37 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-225: I do think we’re making them look good though. These are the exact same players the Stormers klapped.
11 Aug 2010, 23:39 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-223: Hello Robbie. I have been out of action until the last few days or so. Working bleddy hard.
Hardly listening to any new music.
Went to see Band Of Horses live with my wife & daughter – they were maginficent. Also saw Guster (terrific), Avett Brothers (excellent) and Weezer (surprisingly very good).
Can’t tell you anymore. Other than it’s very bleddy hot!
Nice to “see” you bud.
11 Aug 2010, 23:41 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-224: I don’t get it, Vermulen outplayed EVERY 8′th man in S14, has the same lineout ability as Juan. Is NOT slow – the guy can play flank for goodness sake, and supports his locks fantastically at 8 in the scrum.
We select poorly on emotion.
11 Aug 2010, 23:42 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-228: aye. I can’t argue that we are making them look good, I just look at the scoreboard.
11 Aug 2010, 23:43 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-226: Frankly I think our issues are much deeper than John Smit at 2.
11 Aug 2010, 23:48 pm
you be surprised that a Burger 8, Smith 7, Potgieter 6, trio could work way better than a Spies at 8 scenario. I’m convinced its the way to go under current parameters and also drop Januarie and M. Steyn out of halfback rather play Frans at 10 than Morne. Its the way to go, try it and you see the big difference.
Gurthro/Beast
Bismark/Chili
BJ
Roussow/Vd Merwe
Matfield
Potgieter
Smith/Louw
Burger/Spies
Hougaard
F. Steyn
Habana
JdV
JdJ
JPP/ Aplon
M. Steyn / Kirchner
11 Aug 2010, 23:51 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-232: As I said previously, the coaches are clearly out of their depth. They took the worst forwards coach, the worst backs coach and a coach who was the right colour and handed them the reins of the Boks – what could possibly go wrong?
Smit has been a great captain but the return to prop and bulking up at his age seems to have been a step too far. Give him his 100th cap and then tell him not to play again until he has met several clearly defined fitness and weight targets. If he can’t get in shape in time for the RWC, don’t pick him.
Anyway, I need to sleep. Cheers.
11 Aug 2010, 23:52 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-233: I can’t believe you of all people are punting F Steyn at 10. Has the whole world gone mad?
11 Aug 2010, 23:53 pm
K Bye
11 Aug 2010, 23:53 pm
Smit sets the tone of the team with Smit playing under par the entire team follows suit.
Select a hungry no nonsense captain that can lead and command respect from the front or go down as the pretenders that fluked a WC against Argentina Fiji and England
11 Aug 2010, 23:56 pm
@skopskiet(yliad)-233: Assuming no injuries, players rested, select internationales etc:
15. Joe Pietersen
14. Gio Aplon
13. Fourie
12. Francois Steyn
11. Habana
10. Morne
9. FdP
8. Vermulen
7. Smith
6. Brussow
5. Matfield
4. Rossouw
3.Werner Kruger
2. Gary Botha
1. Guthro Steenkamp
16. CJ
17. Bismark
18. Bekker
19. Burger
20. Hougaardt
21. Pienaar
22. Juan De Jongh.
12 Aug 2010, 00:07 am
I’m talking now next week with players selected in this squad not hyperthetical team with players out the loop, that would be my 22 there and I switch M. Steyn out of FH where he’s a one dimensional premedidated type player who brings zero to the game, WO too.
Switch half backs both of them and 6 and 8 too and you see a marked improvement, and drop Smit right out the equation use a mobile 2.
,
Then you see Bok’s cook with some gas again.
12 Aug 2010, 00:07 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-237:
stuck record, worse than G10!
12 Aug 2010, 00:10 am
take a flying leap whatever its the truth schmuckadilly suck it up any which way you wanna those are the facts dumb doos
12 Aug 2010, 00:15 am
and I’d never pick Gary Botha in a month of Sunday’s I’d pick Chili before him.
Hookers to go ahead
Bismark
Liebenberg
Chili
Burden
Fourie
Brits
Strauss
12 Aug 2010, 00:31 am
anyone who plays F Steyn at 10 is clueless and should not even comment on rugby even on a blog for idiots………..
12 Aug 2010, 00:45 am
your WC winning hero attached to his Aussie mentor played him through 80 long minutes of Baabaa mayhem cause they wanted to prove a point to PdV that he was the bees knees of fly halves in 08
Well now the kid has settled at 12 in France and played through his entire school career at 10, and to all intents and purposes would bring about 100% more spark to the game than the predictabke kick n chase nothing doing garbage that Morne Steyn’s been dishing up the last 3 outings and the 2 Eoyt games before that.
So if its anyone that got no clue about how rugby should be played and commenting and portraying their idiocy on rugby blogs its these fools that continue with same old same old expecting miraculous differing results.
12 Aug 2010, 00:47 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-233: Steyn can’t pass a ball in either direction.
12 Aug 2010, 01:08 am
which Steyn can’t pass either direction, seems they both struck with the same malady so I rather go with the one with balls enough to attack the gain line and set something up for the others, the one currently in the saddle is so tentative on the back foot that he’s either hoofing it into the heavens on a hail Mary wish and a prayer or else he’s telegraphing his pass to the centre who’s getting oppo man and ball on the nose similtaneously.
F. Steyn is a selfish prima donna but he got enough go forward to create something if he charges the gain line and sets up phase two. M. Steyn is just a ine dimensional deep pocket predictability that AB’s and Aussies seen coming a long time aready down the track. Time to start doing something different or else its same ild same old add infinitum as we disintegrate down the one track mind road of predictabke mediocrity.
12 Aug 2010, 01:32 am
More proof that the coaches dont have a bloody clue. Were in for a 3-0 beating at home too. Mark my words. Pieter wees maar hardkoppig jou d005. Jy gaan nog les op se. Lekker dom.
12 Aug 2010, 01:35 am
@grant10(grant10)-205: well said Grant – agree fully from heroes to zero in less than a year. Wheres that come from.
12 Aug 2010, 01:46 am
in and out chaps
rugby is all about pressure, pressure, pressure.
be it offensive as in a good kick and chase game
or in defence as in a rush system
or in lineouts or scrums
last season the boks played a pressure game, gave the all blacks no time or space.
and simply took them apart.
this year there has been zero pressure.
mils has had time and space to counter attack.
there has been no closing down of the opposition
not enough competing on all black line out.
we have to back to pressurizing the other team.
otherwise we will continue to see our collective asses
cheers
12 Aug 2010, 01:47 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-244:
Exactly……..after trying him there they realised the failure……..you then go pick him in that position knowing full well he is not a 10……..doos logic!
12 Aug 2010, 02:14 am
@whatever(whatever)-250:
12 Aug 2010, 03:44 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-251:
12 Aug 2010, 05:07 am
@skopskiet(yliad)-246: Frans Steyn tries to crash-bash, but seldom eve gets as far as the gain line and he invariably dies with the ball. He’s utterly one-dimensional and predictable. He’s a good #15 though. Fido the Dog can do a better job at #10.
12 Aug 2010, 05:07 am
eve? Pick “ever” or “even”.
12 Aug 2010, 05:28 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-87:
Do that and the standard of Bok rugby will end up much the same as NH nations.
12 Aug 2010, 05:45 am
Frans has no side step? Mils can step and accelerate to full pace in a flash. His mindset is to run into space on attack even it’s on the other side of the field, he works hard at it. I cant imagine Frans Steyn doing that, he’d kick the ball way better though but there’d be a lineout or stop in play and the AB’s will re-group??
12 Aug 2010, 06:06 am
What’s with the constant Kanko bashing on Keo?
He had a fantastic game in Brisey. One of the few boks that did in fact. The fact that we were without a fetcher is not Kankos fault. He is not a fetcher. So why was he “graded” as one?
The imbalance in the back 3 is not Kankos fault either. It is a coaching blunder. So why is the selection blunder permanently squared on his shoulders? It makes no bloody sense whatsoever.
Grade him for what he is, a carrier, not a fetcher. And He is a terrific carrier.
I agree management should try something new on the home leg. And they should absolutely include a fetcher or two. But blaming a player is not the answer. And to regard him as not having “made the step up at test level” is nothing short of ridiculous.
He was an SA Rugby player of the year nominee 2008.
He was a Sasol Player of the year nominee 2008.
You don’t get that without having “stepped up”.
12 Aug 2010, 06:25 am
@rugbypedia(rugbypedia)-257:
Well said Bud, totally agree, selections remain just that, selections by the coach. JDv on the wing was another stupid selection by, well dare we say it, a coach who is clueless!
12 Aug 2010, 07:02 am
Good systems make mediocre players good and good players great. We have many good players, but our current head coaches systems suck, and we are struggling agains the AB’s that do have good systems. EG The systems in use at WP obviously are very good, as they hardly missed a beat without their Boks.
If we had a coach that had good systems (or any sort of systems at all) then we could rest the best players and use them only for the biggest games, and use many of our good players in smaller games like EOYT and June internationals.
Instead, now we must use the best players all the time to play good rugby, but cannot even seem to make the step up to great rugby against the AB’s. Because our systems are letting us down.
I seriously think that PdV is just not good enough. The evidence is starting to show that he lucked into his playing strategy last year, and his luck has run out.
12 Aug 2010, 07:11 am
The Springbok team will be these guys once Bismarck and others return:
1. Steenkamp\Smit
2. Bismark
3. Smit\BJ
4. Bakkies
5. Victor
6. Brussouw
7. Smith
8. Spies
9. Pienaar
10. Morne
11. Habana
12. Wynand
13. Jaques
14. JP
15. Frans
This is really wrong. A better team could be picked from the players that are left out.
12 Aug 2010, 07:57 am
Just in case this has been done before, I apologise, but don’t have time to read all the threads. It seems the real problem with the Boks back row is the lack of a quality fetcher. There is plenty of talent at blindside and 8, but without the correct balance in the back row it doesn’t really work so well for South Africa. So who to play? HB was amazing last year and made a massive difference to the way the team performed and one would assume he will go straight back into the team when fit again, but you never know with the current management. In the mean time its Schalk, but I don’t really believe he can play the role effectively any more and needs to change position for his and the boks sake. Flow is a bit like a Schalk, but not as good yet and I feel his physique doesn’t really lend itself to stealing ball at the break down pretty tall, high centre of gravity, therefore easier to get shoved off the ball. The rest of his game is pretty good, but its the turnovers the boks need, not another ball carrier or line out option. Stegman would of been a great player to check out as I think he is a player who makes a lot of turnovers, like Brussow, he has the perfect shape, stocky, low centre of gravity and incredibly strong for his size. Unfortunately he’s injured. Has Keegan Daniel ever played openside? He is on fire at the moment in the CC although playing a totally different style of game to the one required. Perhaps he should work on trying to play the fetching role more, although “glamour” players don’t often like to do the dirty work and I get the feeling he’d rather hang back and get the ball in hand. Shame, because he’d probably achieve more if he made this sacrifice.
Probably best to stick with Flow or Schalk for now, but in the future someone else has to play 6 for the Boks is they want to compete effectively at the breakdown against the stronger teams.
12 Aug 2010, 07:57 am
Ah yes, just had to peep in to see wee gwanty10 having a hissy fit and snotty licking nz ring piece; again. I see JW is going to be appointed Head of Coaches by SNAFU to overse all national and Bok coaching.
Just to get your temperatures up.
12 Aug 2010, 08:00 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-108: If your overrated favourite was indeed as good as Brussow, he would have been pick by the Boks by now.
Last year, Brussow vastly outperformed him in the S14, and this year Louw outperformed him. Deal with it. The bok selectors agree.
Dont waste anyone’s time with feeble excuses…
12 Aug 2010, 09:15 am
nie so seker daarvan nie……
12 Aug 2010, 09:22 am
It’s not all about the players build. He needs to be smart as well. Look at McCaw.
12 Aug 2010, 10:11 am
@Auntie Mavis(Auntie Mavis)-255: Why?
12 Aug 2010, 10:20 am
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-261:
I think Keegan Daniel was always considered an opensider by the Sharks.
12 Aug 2010, 10:43 am
The desicion to (if it goes ahead) to play Spies, Smith and Burger is moronic.
Burger is seriously overrated. He contribute as little as Kankowski in the trinations and in fact offered less. At least Kankowski is very dangerous with ball in hand. Spies had been horribly exposed. Behind a dominant pack get go forward ball he is very dangerous. Behing a losing pack, ****. We cannot grantee a dominant pack. All things being equal he is, on balance, a substandard international level loosie. Incredibly strong in one area weak in the others. Smith, well hope he is fit. But if he is on form he is a better choice for blindside than anyone else. As for Burger at openside. McCaw and Poccock will crucify him. Finished and klaar. A better balance would be Smith or at, a push Burger, Louw and Kankowski. If we really thing the tight five will be under pressure go for Smith, Louw and a Vermeulen or Alberts.
12 Aug 2010, 11:33 am
They are trying to mimic the AB backrow in shape and size but alas not ability
No fetcher no chance
12 Aug 2010, 11:38 am
Should have played 2 fetchers to force the abs out of the defensive line and back into the ruck
Got Muir written over this
12 Aug 2010, 14:04 pm
@WP_(WP_)-263:
Is that your professional opinion?
I remember that game clearly. I would say that that is “feeble” of you.
Now let’s say that Brussow did, EVEN IF he did, what about this year’s S14? What about the CC matches?
And then you show more bias than me by saying Flou outperformed Stegmann in the S14 final?!?!?!
Flou didn’t even make any S14 final team of the week (except yours)- it was Burger and Stegmann.
I mentioned the reasons- each year that made it that much difficult to get selected. The Bok loose trio is an exclusive club, you know that. And Brussow made his S14 and CC debut a full year earlier than Stegmann.
And where do you get off saying that the Bok selectors agree???
You don’t even agree with the selections by the Bok selectors and are vastly upset that Flou may be facing the axe.
So how does tha count for anything? HUH?
Chiliboy shouldn’t be there, so shouldn’t Ricky, Kirchner (in a way), Smit (at the moment), Kanko etc.
So how do you say that the Bok selectors are the be all and end all of a player’s status?
What’s the difference between you and I? -Our “favourites” as you put it?
Well recently Stegmann met Flou in the S14 final and the 2009 CC semi final.
What happened?
Ja, exactly.
12 Aug 2010, 14:06 pm
Thank god Francois Louw was axed
JC praat k@k al weer
12 Aug 2010, 15:43 pm
It would be very sad if we fall back to the JW days when we regularly played without a fetcher. In the 2007 WC when we played England in the 1st round and Wickus vH played we hammered the poms. When Burger came back for the final we nearly lost against them.
Brussouw was instrumental in the resurgence of the Boks last year. We need a fetcher. Flo is the only match fit fetcher we currently have who had a good S14. He should play.
We need a strong no8 who can pick up the ball at the back of the scrum and go forward. Case in point: CC semi final 2009, Last scrum of the game with the Bulls scrum struggling. Spies picks up, Schalk comes in with everything he has to tackle man and ball. End result: Schalk flat on his back, Spies advances a few metres, Bulls recycle the ball and keeps posession until the final whistle blows.
Kanko to me has not shown that he is physical enough. If we had a dominant scrum he might have been an option. There are other candidates like Vermeulen who are strong enough but lack speed. Spies has speed. He might have gone through a slump but he will be back.
That leaves the no 7 jersey and there I will choose Juan Smith ahead of Schalk anytime.
12 Aug 2010, 16:17 pm
@Cyperus(Cyperus)-268:
Did you even watch the 3N?? Schalk was the best forward, followed by Gurthro. Had it not been for their defensive efforts we probably would’ve had half centuries notched up around us in all the games
12 Aug 2010, 16:26 pm
I don’t think Juan is 100% match fit to play an 80 min 3N test match yet.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again…Spies is a great S14 and CC player, but he doesn’t have all the needed skills an 8th man should in order to be considered amongst the world’s best. As for the Bok team, he doesn’t fit the mould of player we require right now. That being a hardman like Alberts/Vermeulen
12 Aug 2010, 23:04 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-266:
My reply was to a rant about shutting NZ and Aus out by SAf and playing exclusively against NH sides.
If SAf played all their competition rugby against NH sides the standard of Bok rugby would descend to the level of their opponents.
This always is assuming the NH sides would not mind travelling to SA to play them.
12 Aug 2010, 23:17 pm
@Auntie Mavis(Auntie Mavis)-276: South Africa could go it alone and not descend to the level of its 3N “partners” – backbiting, underhandedness and duplicity. The Boks should forge their own way and leave the kissing cousins well alone.
3N going from home and away to best of 3, S14 to S15 and SA’s travel disadvantage does not add up to anything of benefit to the Boks anyway – to the extent that the S15 aberration is going to seriously threaten the CC. Actually its a farkup to stay in a lopsided “partnership” with 2 teams in a different time zone – it would be better to synchronise with NH.
The Boks were strong before 3N and they will remain strong without it… In fact they have a lot to gain without it. They can visit the antipodes every 2 years for a longer tour… (Bang goes Australian rugby, and bang goes the cash to NZ)…
Basically a big middle finger to the kissing cousins will do Bok rugby very nicely, thankyou very much…
12 Aug 2010, 23:18 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-277: It should be bang goes Australian domestic rugby – the purpose of the S15 anyway…
12 Aug 2010, 23:23 pm
@Auntie Mavis(Auntie Mavis)-276: Regular games against a couple of NH sides after the 6N ends would be perfect. A big tour of 1 nation – 3 games and 3 midweek against clubs with a couple of once-off tests against another will do all the nations involved very nicely money-wise and rugby wise. It will also add more meaning to a return match at home mid year…
12 Aug 2010, 23:53 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-207: Hahah mate thats some wishful thinking. As an international world champ team you have only one objective. Win! everything. I dont think they decided to just let this one slide with a long term view on the grand slam. Lol. Really man.
They dont know what theyre doing and theyll lose at least another 2 on home soil – mark my words.
15 Aug 2010, 06:48 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-279:
You are suffering delusions of adequacy.
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