Bok back-row blunders continue
11 Aug 2010
JON CARDINELLI says the axing of Francois Louw is a sure sign the Springbok selectors learned nothing from the Australasian beatings.
Louw’s been selected for Saturday’s Currie Cup clash between WP and the Bulls. WP coach Allister Coetzee said he would play the Boks who don’t make the final 24-man squad, and Louw’s selection suggests the flanker isn’t being considered for the 21 August Test against the All Blacks.
Dewald Potgieter will also return to the Bulls, which leaves loose forwards Schalk Burger, Ryan Kankowski, Juan Smith, and Pierre Spies in contention for the Soweto fixture. Burger, Smith and Spies will start, and while they’ve been such a formidable combination in the past, it’s clear the current breakdown laws demand the inclusion of somebody who plays to the ball.
Heinrich Brüssow was the top fetcher in the world in 2009, besting prominent breakdown bandits like Richie McCaw and George Smith. After Brüssow’s season-ending injury in early 2010, Louw was identified as the alternative. He made a great start in the preliminaries but then battled behind a losing tight five in the two defeats to New Zealand.
Surprisingly, the Bok selectors opted to replace Louw with Kankowski for the final tour match against Australia. Predictably, the Boks were completely outclassed by a Wallabies back row that boasted a better balance, and more importantly, a specialist fetcher in David Pocock.
The Bok selectors who explained Kankowski’s inclusion as one that would speed up their game were exposed. You cannot hope to put speed on the ball (or deny the opposition a quick ruck recycle) if you don’t have a breakdown specialist. Louw should have played in Brisbane, and he’s a must if the Boks want to combat McCaw and Pocock in the coming three Tests.
Burger and Smith are no slouches on the deck, but their ball-poaching strengths cannot match those of the best fetchers. A trio of Burger, Smith and Spies is geared for ball carrying which is fine as long as the Boks are on the attack, and on the Highveld it will work to some extent. But consider how well the All Blacks and Wallabies retained possession in the Tests against the Boks, and you will realise why a ball-stealer is so vital.
You would hope there’s been some mistake and that Louw will return to the Bok squad next week, but then why would you release him to play in a grinding forward-oriented clash against the Bulls? He will be needed at some point this year and in 2011, as even when Brüssow is fit, the Boks need two fetchers in their squad.
The decision to retain Kankowski is perplexing, as like Wynand Oliver and Zane Kirchner he’s yet to make the step up at Test level. The Bok selectors are blowing an opportunity to start Louw, Smith and Burger as a combination. They’re refusing to try something new. They’d rather favour a tried and tested, but ultimately limited, trio. That may work to a degree, but it won’t win matches.
And if they believe that combination can win matches, where is the planning beyond the Tri-Nations, a tournament that South Africa can no longer win? They need to give Louw opportunities now and experiment with a new No 8 in Burger. Kankowski is not good enough and Spies’s defensive game is lacking.
The Bok management should try something new on this home leg. Playing the same old combinations will ensure they get even less out of this Tri-Nations tournament than they already have.
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281 Comments
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11 Aug 2010, 19:32 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-150:
Damn 150…
Okay general question…
How does one rate an opensider (as being better than the next)?
What does one look for?
11 Aug 2010, 19:33 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-150: well under NH refs in the 3N, currently you’d have to say it’s the ability to cheat without getting caught
11 Aug 2010, 19:36 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-152:
Or make your opensider captain!!!
Schalk almost had no penalties against him in the S14 either!!!
11 Aug 2010, 20:12 pm
Oh pants.
Howcome Helium de Villiers and some others can’t see what is so blatantly obvious?
When I were a wee lad I saw the AB’s in Durbs and the wings threw the ball at the linout. Various other countries tried that for a while but it proved not to be the best method. And NO-ONE has done that for probably 35 years.
So why are we the only country in the world not to play a fetcher at no.7? Grr, we can’t even get the numbers right with Schalk playing open-side with a 6 on his back.
BRING IN A REAL 7!!
That’s all.
11 Aug 2010, 20:18 pm
@DontThinkJustWonder(DontThinkJustWonder)-154: yes
its frustrating.
11 Aug 2010, 20:29 pm
I’m not too sure about some of the names mentioned here! And i’m not too sure of the last two paragraphs are a whinge
More opensiders queue behind magical mccaw
Rob Penney
OPINION: Watching the All Blacks beat
Australia on Saturday, it was hard not to
reflect yet again on what a fantastic player
Richie McCaw is.
But it also got me thinking about some of
our other openside flankers in New Zealand.
Three or four years ago I would’ve said that
we were a bit thin in that area but now
there’s a depth of sevens coming through
that is really exciting. If you want like-for-
like with Richie, in terms of robustness
around the breakdown, then George
Whitelock is as good as anyone. If the All
Blacks selectors want a big physical man to
do a big physical job, then George will do
that.
If they’re looking for something different,
say a player who’s a wee bit more wide-
ranging but still effective around the
breakdown, then Adam Thomson has been
tried and has done a good job there.
Then you’ve got someone like Tanerau
Latimer, who’s probably more of a fetcher
and has a good linking game, but is
probably less confrontational around the
fringes. Then there’s Daniel Braid, who’s
come back and is still finding his feet, and
Onosa’i Auva’a who’s got some physicality
about him but is maybe less accurate.
People might accuse me of bias but, aside
from George, we’ve got a couple of other
kids in our group who deserve a mention
too.
There’s Matt Todd, who I think is just a
magician, and while he’s playing at six for
us at the moment he’ll be an amazing
opensider in time. The other one is Brendon
O’Connor, who was a New Zealand under-20
player a year or so ago.
So if Richie was ever to get injured, the next
person in there might not be the star that
he is but I think there’s enough experience
and ability in that All Blacks group now to
compensate for that.
While I’m on the subject of guys who have
the skills to be a part of the All Blacks, I have
to mention Wyatt Crockett, who seems to be
one of those players that people have the
wrong impression of. When we played
Manawatu last Thursday night he was a
dominant part of a strong scrum and yet he
was penalised a few times. To me, that’s
down to pre-conception.
You look at the pictures and you think how
does a scrummager that’s fairly
demolishing his opposite get penalised? It
can only come back to reputation.
* Rob Penney is the coach of the
Canterbury ITM Cup team.
11 Aug 2010, 20:37 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-153:
Incorrect (if you believe Stegmann is a liability), he had only 2 less than Stegmann I believe.
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-151:
-Toughness;
-fearlessness;
-speed-quick to the breakdown and the ability to anticipate where the next one will occur, and quick breakaway from the scrum and react from defence to support;
-fitness (one of the fittest guys in the team generally);
-balance- good core strength;
-a feel for the ref and ablity to adapt;
-good technique in securing the ball for possesion or penalties;
-showing the ability to absorb pressure (some guys just lose it) and operate under it and push the offside line/ scrumbind/develop a knack for handling the ball on the ground or holding on just long enough;
-good cleaning/clearing technique and ball placement;
-a team player- there are no glory boys here;
-responsiveness (reaction time);
-explosiveness;
-in certain cases one could take the flank’s build into account;
-all round ability to communicate to the ref constantly, clearly and manipulatively;
-fighting spirit (which is difficult to measure anyway).
Those are general things to look at, but it’s entirely down to the coaches discretion.
11 Aug 2010, 20:39 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-157:
Tackle technique too- guys got to tackle everything that moves- assignment number one.
11 Aug 2010, 20:50 pm
What on earth is thepoint of arguing about whether Stegmann is better than Flo or not regarding the Soweto match? He isn’t available, that’s it.
Flo was the original easy choice because of his successful partnership with Schalk in the S14. His lack of success was due more to the ABs cleaning him out as they committed more men to the rucks, than on any lack of ability.
The problem now is, that the 4 loosies likely to be in the 22 is an attempt to replicate Jakes success, but if anything happens to Juan, we’re back to the same guys that got creamed by the Wobblies.
11 Aug 2010, 21:10 pm
It’s a right royal f’up allround, I dunno what the they see in Kanko and spies on present form – we also need to get our tight 5 back with some clout and engine, mayfield and smit are not that engine at present, kevin mealamu is a monster in the tightloose, god only knows why those clots dropped him in the first place.
11 Aug 2010, 21:20 pm
@DontThinkJustWonder(DontThinkJustWonder)-154:
‘So why are we the only country in the world not to play a fetcher at no.7?’
you’re not,
Argentina – Leguizamon
England – Moody
Ireland – Wallace
Italy – Bergamasco
SA – Burger
the teams that use fetchers, to my knowledge:
Australia – David Pocock
New Zealand – Suarez McCheat
Wales – Martyn Williams
I think France play a left/right system with Dusatoir and either Ouedrago/Bonnaire/Nyanga. Fiji have Qera who is something of a hybrid.
11 Aug 2010, 21:21 pm
I’m just praying for Barnesey, whose not afraid to ping his royal cheatiness Richie the 3rd
11 Aug 2010, 21:22 pm
@cab(cab)-160:
Hore is a stronger scrummager, that’s all. Kevin was always brought on as an impact player off the bench.
11 Aug 2010, 21:22 pm
I’m just praying for Barnesey, whose unafraid to ping his royal cheatiness Richie the 3rd
11 Aug 2010, 21:25 pm
@David(David)-163: Hore is a better thrower I think too, or at least that was the conventional wisdom prior to the 3N. Hore is good at getting in amongst the maul, but NZ have dealt well with it in his absence.
11 Aug 2010, 21:27 pm
To those wussie complaining negativists – I suspect these Boks and PdV will have the last laugh here…
Then Keo will really be interesting if those “Old”, “slow”, “skill less” Boks and that “stupid”, “clownlike”, “incompetent” coaching team do manage to win the last 3 games of the 3N…
But one supposes there are no similar credibility issues with many commentors and journo’s on this site…
11 Aug 2010, 21:28 pm
I see I’m also managing to duplicate me dribble -great the truth needs to be told, about the greatest cheat to ever play the game.
David, sorry was getting on the old soap box fir a wee hark forth – u reckon hore is better come scrumtine, I thought they picked him for his turnover rate, which was huge. He is a great player, it’s just dem AB tight 5 unit look mean again when he returns
11 Aug 2010, 21:35 pm
Sorry when mealamu returns, yeah think they initially got rid of him on the premise of his throwing, meanwhile mayfield was taking their jumpers to the cleaners – never been a jumper like matfield – my ball is my ball and your ball is my ball – problem is he can’t do much else, should pick him at 8 apart from lineout otherwise he’s got the speed and tackling – contributes absolutely naught to the tight
11 Aug 2010, 21:38 pm
@cab(cab)-167:
You’re right about Hores turnovers. The ABs have great choices at 2.
11 Aug 2010, 22:25 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-161: Excellent observation – no doubt should induce a goldfish like reaction (blurb, blurb) from many “fetcher” enthusiasts who hanker after all things antipodean, but it won’t…
…Eyes Wide Shut
11 Aug 2010, 22:28 pm
We always knew they would field a Burger-Smith-Spies trio for Soccer City.
No surprise there.
Expect the Boks to have less than 45% ball, yet again.
11 Aug 2010, 22:31 pm
@willievz(willievz)-171: The problem is compounded by the fact that our hooker is not known for his foraging either.
In the absence of a mobile hooker, you need two deck players, preferrably at 6 and 8.
If you play a mobile hooker, you can get away with one deck player.
11 Aug 2010, 22:32 pm
Francois Louw was weighed and found wanting.
11 Aug 2010, 22:32 pm
@willievz(willievz)-171: You will find that the Boks, contrary to conventional wisdom and rules of thumb, tend to win the majority of their games with less than 50% possession. Its the nature of the optimal Bok beast…
11 Aug 2010, 22:48 pm
Bafanax2 seem 2 have turned the corner now its the time for the Bokke.
11 Aug 2010, 22:48 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-170: I would take the teams with fetchers to beat everyone else.
So your argument is at best spurious, at worst null & void.
11 Aug 2010, 22:49 pm
@willievz(willievz)-171: And the territory stat will be worse.
11 Aug 2010, 22:52 pm
anyone still maintaining fetchers are superfulous have size issues….probably linked to the size of there wieners….
For years we were bliksemed by Mc Caw///waugh….g smith….
Along comes Brussow and whoopsie bloody daisy Boks win again.
No brussow and we back down the loo….
Cmon….doesent take a clever oke to see we being done at the breakdow….6 bloody love
11 Aug 2010, 22:54 pm
should have gone with
8 dewalt potgieter
6 louw
7 schalk
without any doubt.
Hope boks play at least F louw…..now that dewalt deemed surplus
11 Aug 2010, 22:54 pm
@grant10(grant10)-178: The fact in cold relief is this:
Our S14 teams are coached differently to the Springbok team.
The Bulls & Stormers win, the Boks are down 3-zip.
It’s not only the fetcher issue (which is an issue) but much larger concerns.
11 Aug 2010, 22:55 pm
spies….j smith amnd Schalk…..
what a load of bollocks.
No difference there to the trio that got done in Brisbane by pocock
11 Aug 2010, 22:57 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-180: for sure…agree.
I chatted to a mate earlier….said i truly believe boks can win in 2011…..
but it will take Regime change….and Plod will need to walk…..
It wont be pretty
11 Aug 2010, 22:58 pm
It’s like watching a train smash in slow motion.
11 Aug 2010, 22:59 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-183: ja
its bloody painful…..
11 Aug 2010, 23:00 pm
@grant10(grant10)-179: Some guys were suggesting this last night:
6. Flo
7. Juan
8. Burger
Spies off the bench.
I thought that was quite interesting. The men would be strong in the tackle and in the ensuing tackle & maul clean out. Protecting Flo and the ball.
My biggest concern with Schalk at 8 is not his “brains” – I think he is a great rugby player, I just don’t know about his hands in the scrum, especially a scrum going backwards or fragmenting.
11 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
the 3 stooges are blundering from poor selections to poor strategy to poor discipline…..its almost laughable….if it wasnt so sad!
11 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
@kaksioek(kaksioek)-183: Can we just tie the 3 Stooges to the tracks.
Do the same thing, expect a different result. Dof.
11 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-176: When, between World Cups. I suppose your argument depends on winning priorities… But hey history and a style of play means nothing, hence “null & void”… Whatafarkinglaugh…
11 Aug 2010, 23:01 pm
I know I am coming to this a bit late…
Why is Kankowski being dismissed so out of hand. He was about 20% better than Spies in the last match, even though he played flank.
Kankowski is more of a classic 8th man at the moment. His linking play is better, he seems to be in the right places more often, he only lacks the grunt, but that could come from the flanks and a more athletic lock (ours are great but in need of a bit of rest). I think he is more in the mould of a Teichman, rather than a Straulei.
WIth Smith playing 7 (burger sub) and F Louw or even Potgieter, we could start to get some balance.
11 Aug 2010, 23:03 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-185: ja
i would never play schalk at 8.
i know willie punts that as well….and he knows his stuff, but not for me. I have watched schalk for years….he aint no 8…..
11 Aug 2010, 23:05 pm
@The Bill(The Bill)-189: agree mate.
Kanko far better than spies.
If we have to have a show pony….i would go with kanko before spies.
Spies has been a disgrace….an absolute passenger….with plod the 2 worst bloody boks on tour
11 Aug 2010, 23:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-188: Boet. Winning the World Cup in 2007 does not make me feel any better when I get fkd up in 2010. Losing is losing, show me a good loser and I will show you a loser.
11 Aug 2010, 23:07 pm
mALLET….PLEASE COME HOME MATE…
11 Aug 2010, 23:07 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-174: It just shows you how dominant we can be if we had better ball retention skills on offense!
The key issue, of course, is quality of possession.
In the absence of a fetcher, you are almost always going to have less than 50& possession. A fetcher does not guarantee more possession (as you rightly pointed out), but it does ensure better quality possession on your offense and slower ruck ball for the opposition offense.
The way things stand for Soccer City, the ABs are more likely to obtain and retain quality possession, and we won’t be able to stop the wave.
11 Aug 2010, 23:09 pm
WATERSHED YEAR…..
2010….I STILL SEE MAJOR CHANGES…..SOMMER SOON AS WELL….
tHE BEGINNING OF THE END FOR THE fAT bOYS cLUB.
mATTER OF TIME….MAYBE JUST A FEW SHORT WEEKS.
Sorry caps
11 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-185: Soda, controlling the ball at the back of the scrum is Burger’s only true disadvantage.
And to be fair, Spies is damn good at that.
11 Aug 2010, 23:10 pm
Schalk played 8 against the Yanks at RWC 2007 and was kak. Butchered at least one pushover try.
11 Aug 2010, 23:11 pm
@grant10(grant10)-191: Yup. With the greatest respect, I heard you the first time, all the times in between & now the last time. I know you are no fan of Spies, Smit & coaches.
I am concerned that we have sooo many good loose forwards at the moment, but missing the key ingredient of a fetcher – with Brussow out.
One thing I will say, with everyone expressing so many different opinions it is not an easy call for the coaches.
11 Aug 2010, 23:12 pm
@willievz(willievz)-196: Ja. I agree. Spies had to perform behind a back-pedaling pack for so long he became an expert.
11 Aug 2010, 23:13 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-177: I am an advocate of the school that claims territory is more important than possession.
Only just though.
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