EP’s fresh start
23 Sep 2010
EP Kings director of rugby Alan Solomons talks to GRANT BALL about transformation, keeping players in the province, and getting ready for Super Rugby.
What has the move from Ireland to Port Elizabeth been like?
I’ve found myself coming full circle. I was born in Uitenhage and went to school at Grey PE. There’s a bunch of good people at EP, from the CEO Anele Pamba to president Cheeky Watson. Good people make a huge difference in a move like this. I still do the odd bit of consulting for the IRB, but it’s not a big thing.
How difficult was it luring back players who were earning big salaries overseas?
That’s the fantastic thing about guys like Darron Nell and Rory Duncan. They appreciate what we’re doing here. They want to be here at the start of the journey and they know there’s light at the end of the tunnel. For Darron, I think the whole experience of playing in a British & Irish Lions game made a big difference to him. He was here for 10 days for that game, and he could see he was a part of something good. In that regard it wasn’t difficult getting back guys who are from the region. In terms of general recruitment, we really need a Super Rugby franchise, because other good players with no previous links to the area want to play at that level. But that will be resolved, and we’ve been guaranteed Super Rugby entry in 2013 by Saru. As far as I’m concerned, we’ve been given unequivocal backing from the top. It’s got to happen now.
What’s your response to people who say the Kings’ Super Rugby inclusion won’t be a boost for transformation?
Against Boland we had four players of colour in the starting team, but Mpho Mbiyozo was still injured and for the first time this season, less than a third of the side was black. But that’s not what this team’s about. There’s no numbers game and everyone is picked on merit. There’s a relaxed atmosphere at training and guys speak English, Afrikaans and Xhosa. The black guys feel at home more than they do anywhere else. I’ve selected a leadership group of six players, and of those, only De Wet Barry isn’t from the Eastern Cape. We’ve also got Tiger Mangweni, Mzwandile Stick, Darron, Rory, and Mpho. De Wet’s committed himself to the region, proof of which is him learning to speak Xhosa. When we played the Valke the following week, we had six players of colour in the starting team and two on the bench. That isn’t an issue for us, and it shouldn’t be for the pessimists.
Will you be able to get black players to return to the Eastern Cape?
I’d love it if every black player who’s been developed in this region came back, because they get lost at some of the other unions. Without a Super Rugby franchise in the Eastern Cape they’ve had no aspirational pathway. It’s going to be tough, but we’ve started a process. You can see from all the players’ body language how happy they are to be back home. My motto is to bring them home and keep them home. They want to be part of something special.
How do you think Mbiyozo will make the transition from sevens back to the 15-a-side game?
I coached Mpho at UCT [University of Cape Town] in 2005 when they were part of a relegation scrap, and he was exceptional. I couldn’t understand why he hadn’t got any opportunities with WP and the Stormers. We saw when he played for the Kings against the Lions last year – he hadn’t played 15s for a while and he was adjudged Man of the Match. I don’t think he’ll battle with the adjustment. He’ll be back by the end of August after keyhole surgery on his shoulder which he injured while playing sevens.
What’s been the key to EP’s best Currie Cup campaign in years [they are top of the First Division log]?
It’s difficult to comment on the past few years as I wasn’t here, but hard work has been vital. Everyone here has been prepared to do it – from the administration, to the coaching staff, to the players. We’ve tried new things with the players, and they’ve been happy to embrace change. We made things difficult for ourselves against the Griffons but got the result, and the win against Boland away from home was a big victory for us. Winning breeds confidence.
What was the thinking behind bringing backline coach David Maidza from the Border Bulldogs?
David worked with us against the Lions and I was very impressed. When we approached him, he could see a bright future. He’s a first-class coach and an outstanding guy. He’s looking to develop himself as a coach and we want to give him opportunities to travel. We’ve made a tentative approach to the Western Force for him to go there for two or three weeks in December to work with Richard Graham, who will be their coach once John Mitchell leaves. Rich is a brilliant skills and backs coach, and all coaches should want to up-skill themselves, which is what David wants to do. He is highly intelligent, articulate and he’s got a good manner with the players.
Why did EP change its name to the EP Kings this season?
Cheeky and Anele were behind the thinking and know more about the reasoning, but I think it’s great. Everything about the team is new; we’re moving into the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium on 1 September, and wanted a fresh start. The Mighty Elephants belonged to the Boet Erasmus and things are changing with the Kings. This is a new beginning.
How do you plan to incorporate Border and SWD into the Kings franchise?
I don’t see it as a problem. When I coached the Stormers, we easily negotiated bringing in Boland and SWD. You always have an anchor union, which EP are here, and it makes sense as PE is the biggest city [compared to George and East London] and we have the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium. With the Stormers, we had camps in George so that SWD felt part of the franchise, and we also played warm-ups against Boland and SWD.
How does your job as director of rugby branch into other areas?
We’re doing our best with the professional team, but it’s also about under-pinning that with high-performance teams. We’ve started working with the schools, age-group sides and universities in the region, which never happened in the past as there essentially hasn’t been any professional rugby here, and therefore none of the professional structures. We’re also taking a road trip to the top 27 schools in the region with guys like [former Bok centre] Danie Gerber and [ex-Bok prop] Robbie Kempson.
How long will it take to stop the excessive loss of players to other unions?
It will take two or three years to arrest the haemorrhaging. We’ve made inroads already and we’ll make academy signings this year. It’s all part of a process.
Some argue that even though the Cheetahs have a Super Rugby franchise they still loseplayers. Why will the Kings be any different?
It’s very simple. The Cheetahs lose players every year because for some or other reason they don’t perform at Super Rugby level. They aren’t as wealthy as the other unions and their players get poached, and therefore they’re unable to compete. But we’ll have the financial wherewithal that the Cheetahs don’t have and we’ll make a mark in Super Rugby. The consequence is that the players will stay.
How important is it to gain promotion to the Currie Cup Premier Division next season?
That’s the ideal scenario. Like everyone in the First Division, we’re looking to move up. We want to play a higher level of rugby. If we play in the Currie Cup Premier Division in 2011 it will facilitate our entry into Super Rugby two years later. But we’ve only played a few games and aren’t even halfway through the season, so it’s early days. Our ambition is to get to the Premier Division. At times we might go sideways or a little backwards, but ultimately we’re moving forward. People in the region have seen what’s happening and interest is rising. We must also remember that we had the most representative rugby crowd for the Kings’ match against the Lions last year, which shows the interest and hunger for sport across all racial groups. Although not every South African has links with the Eastern Cape, we should all be working together to support the union, not criticise it.
Is EP going to set up a rugby academy?
Our ideal model is to have players coming from high school to the academy while studying at varsity in PE, playing for EP U19, and also NMMU [Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University] in the Varsity Cup and the local league. NMMU will model themselves on our structures, and our academy players will be based at the stadium, along with all the senior players. The university and academy will play a central role in the development of the franchise.
How worrying is NMMU’s last-place position in the Varsity Cup?
We’ve got to tackle the problem of NMMU. We had our first meeting with their staff at the start of the season and have rekindled our involvement with them. We want them to be a success, not like the recent past. We’re determined to make them powerful, which they have to be for the sake of the province. NMMU have to be a
pathway for players to the senior team; they must have the same approach as the professional side.
– This article first appeared in the September issue of SA Rugby magazine
Click here to subscribe to print edition
Click here to subscribe to digital edition
289 Comments
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 [6] Show All
24 Sep 2010, 23:01 pm
@carol(carol)-248:
hi cotswolds lady 8)
good evening had by all?
24 Sep 2010, 23:03 pm
ok, i am off.
et
stay well but ffs, open your mind.
tjorts.
24 Sep 2010, 23:11 pm
@charo(charo)-251: A funny old way to pass an evening….
Blogging here is not for the faint hearted!!
24 Sep 2010, 23:14 pm
How confused and contradictory the fool/s is/are.
I am lambasted for supposedly taking ” my skills” out of the country and using “upper-class english” but later questioned about the fluency ” in the english language?
Good grief make up your ****** minds morons.
If you want to insult then just insult and do that adequately without giving any positives.
I know I have given an outlet for this hidden, diseased,latent venom as I have afterall exposed the bigotry that you thought you were so successfully hiding for such a long time.
Anyhow while hatred consumes and devours what little respect you think you still have I will leave you to grapple in the guters of the maudlin sentimentalists you are.
I know you think the good days are gone forever.
24 Sep 2010, 23:21 pm
@carol(carol)-253:
yes, odd bunch we are… 8)
have just been passing the time waiting for the golf to start.
on now, so i bid thee farewell fair maiden.
last bit of advice…
avoid et…
the guy will bore you to death.
cheers
24 Sep 2010, 23:30 pm
@charo(charo)-255: Enjoy the golf, don’t worry about ET, he finds me trivial, we did have had some nice chats once!!!
Things change!
24 Sep 2010, 23:45 pm
@ET(ET)-250: You are full of it, pathetic, your holier than thou attitude
25 Sep 2010, 00:04 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-205:
The more the transformation, the more the ship falls apart. Transformation is nothing more than racism. When the pot is empty what then hey trannie? Go begging elsewhere?
25 Sep 2010, 00:42 am
@whatever(whatever)-259: as if ships have never sink before the advent of transformation. As if mediocrity is the sole preserve of all things transformed.
The saru ceo-designate tackled the subject of transformation in his first few media briefings and hit out at the verkrampte, but yet the dogs are still yapping
because their aim is not to truly understand but to ridicule. Lives ruled by fear – in this case a fear of loss of undeserved privilege – fuel all these attempts a ridicule.
How many times has Maties won the varsity cup? Has their ship fallen? Jurie Roux says they’re a transformed set up, is he lying?
25 Sep 2010, 00:44 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-260: *sunk*
25 Sep 2010, 02:34 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-259:
Don’t care……..transformation is choosing one above another based on colour……thats racism. Too many people buy into that BS. Two wrongs don’t make a right!!
25 Sep 2010, 07:02 am
@whatever(whatever)-262: you ‘don’t care’? Then you can cry until kingdom come then!
“People always harp on about transformation,” Roux said, adding:
“When
they come to transformation they get
[stuck
on] to one thing and that is the number of
players other than the colour of white that
is on the field.
“That is not the only thing. You need to
transform people’s minds.
“That is probably one of the best things we
have done at Stellenbosch and that is to
transform people ’s minds.”
Roux, in his guise as a Stellenbosch rugby
administrator and the Varsity Cup Board
Chairman, used the Maties ’ victorious
Varsity Cup team as an example of“true
transformation”.
“At Stellenbosch there is no such thing as a
quota or anything like that. In the Varsity
Cup competition we never fielded anything
less that seven non-white players in the
matchday 22.
“In fact, we played eight non-white
players
in the [2010] Final – each and every player
was on the field on merit. Somewhere we
are doing something right in terms of that
[transformation].”
25 Sep 2010, 12:09 pm
@whatever(whatever)-261: Thats the point, whatever. Its not. That’s what Transie is getting at. Find here an article by Prof. Pierre de Vos on what transformation is, I agree largely with him. It is written from a judicial perspective but you get the idea:
What do we talk about when we talk about “transformation”?
Jul 27th, 2009 by Pierre De Vos.
Humans – despite our intellect and capacity for feeling and abstract thought – have a tendency to talk and think in slogans. Life is complex and time is of the essence, so only the most vigorous (and tiresome) intellectuals (no, I am not thinking of Xolela Mangcu) always make an effort to interrogate the terminology they deploy every day when they try to make themselves understood. This is not always such a bad thing because often most of us have a common understanding of what these slogans mean and use them to make our lives easier.
But sometimes the same slogan can mean wildly different things to different people, which allows people to think that they really agree with one another when in reality they are worlds apart. Slogans which attempt to encapsulate a laudable goal but ultimately have a fuzzy meaning can also be used by unscrupulous people to achieve nefarious ends. One such a slogan – much in the news lately – is “transformation”.
Most of us constitutionalists, for example, think that “transformation” is a good thing. Like motherhood and apple pie, only fringe elements will dare to suggest that transformation in and of itself is problematic. Although the term is not used in the Constitution, academics and judges of our Constitutional Court have often stated that ours is a transformative Constitution and have emphasised the ethical and political necessity of such transformation. But, as it turns out, we do not share a common understanding of what this term might mean.
Justice Malala’s column this morning in The Times in which he deals with the talk of “transformation” of the judiciary and the new appointments to the Judicial Services Commission (JSC) gets to the heart of the matter:
Both the JSC and the judiciary are likely to be filled with some of the most conservative, gender-insensitive, undemocratic and intolerant individuals in society — essentially people not cut from the cloth of the ANC’s own fabric. That reality will derive from the fallacy that because someone is black, and ticks the space in the “transformation” box, then they hold progressive views.
The truth is that not all black advocates are fit to be judges. There are blacks all over the country and in the judiciary who do not embrace the non-racial, non-sexist, democratic values enshrined in the Constitution. There are potential judges who would very easily turn against our progressive laws on abortion and homophobia, for example. Being black does not mean an advocate or judge upholds the values enshrined in our Constitution.
Blacks are not a special people. We laugh and we cry, we oppress and are oppressed. We are human. Among us blacks there are some of the most conservative people and perspectives one can find. Not all black people are progressive….. There was a chilling moment last week when Senior Counsel Torquil Paterson appeared before the JSC in Cape Town. Ntsebeza, according to the Sapa report, asked Paterson how his (Paterson’s) potential appointment as a judge on the Eastern Cape bench could possibly further transformation, because he was white.
“Ntsebeza insisted, until the advocate conceded, that ‘the demographics would not be enhanced by appointing more white judges’. “‘That’s all I wanted you to say,’ said Ntsebeza.”
Now, I don’t know who Paterson is. However, if Paterson is excluded only on the basis that he will not “enhance the demographics”, then there is a problem here. Worse, if a black candidate is appointed merely because he or she enhances the demographics, then we are truly in trouble.
This is the danger. We fail to ask ourselves what “transformation” truly means, and make black faces the only measure of how far we have transformed.
I could not agree more. We need to ask ourselves, what do we talk about when we talk about transformation? As this is a question now hotly contested in the legal field, I will focus on “transformation” in the legal arena. There seems to be at least three (but probably many more) different answers to this question.
First, there is the view espoused by individuals like Dumisa Ntsebeza, which seems to view “transformation” as a demand for the transfer of political, legal and economic power from one racial elite to another, a view based on a kind of race essentialism. This group of individuals bristles at the injustice and indignity of a legal profession and system that is still largely dominated by white individuals and the supposedly superior values of the white minority culture.
Noting – correctly – the economic and cultural marginalisation of black lawyers and the kind of snooty arrogance of some white lawyers, and believing that one’s race determines who one is, what one thinks and how one will act, this group sees “transformation” purely as a “numbers game”. Black lawyers must replace white lawyers in leadership positions at all levels of the profession and in the judiciary to effect “transformation”. For this group “transformation” is really about a transfer of power from a white elite to a black elite within the existing system, so the better for the black elite to share in the spoils that rich whites now selfishly try to keep for themselves.
A second (to my mind, better) view, espoused by Malala and many constitutionalists, is that “transformation” is really about the achievement of a society that embraces the progressive values enshrined in our Constitution. While racial and gender representation in the legal profession and the judiciary is important, the most important goal of transformation is to create a system which respects diversity and the human dignity of all – regardless of their race, ***, gender or sexual orientation.
Race is just a construct and does not tell us with certainty who a person is, what he or she will think, or how he or she will act. Unlike the first group, this second group casts a critical eye on the social relations entrenched in our society and see patriarchy, sexism, homophobia and a lack of respect for difference and feels that “transformation” must fundamentally address the deeply oppressive traditional value system (ironically shared by many white and black patriarchal elites) and must help move us into the light of a modern, progressive state.
But there is also a third view, I think, which attempts to marry aspects of the two previously discussed views of “transformation”. On the one hand this view rejects the race essentialism and the naked and self-serving power politics of the “race transformationists”, while acknowledging that “transformation” is also about economic power and the structural inequality built into our free market, elite-dominated, system of government. Race does not tell us everything about who a person is, what he or she might think or how he or she will act, but how and where one fits into the system will tell one much about the life chances of that person. And, of course, given our history most of the people at the bottom are poor and black.
According to this view, the system as a whole needs to be transformed. While this requires a jettisoning of the patriarchal, sexist and homophobic values so deeply entrenched in our society, it also requires a fundamental change in the way we are governed and our society is structured. The system that rewards (black and white) insiders in government and in private business (where CEO’s and senior managers block pay raises for their workers while raking in obscene salaries and bonuses) help to create and keep in check an underclass and fundamentally retards the life chances of those who are not lucky enough to have been born in privilege or to have acquired the trappings of wealth through political connections and old-boys networks.
In this system, many South Africans – no matter how talented, intelligent or even wise – will never get the opportunity to study law, let alone open a practice at the bar and get appointed to the High Court.
“Transformation”, for this group, will only be meaningful if it addresses the fundamental unfairness of the system which irrevocably and tragically precludes a poor, black, rural girl-child (to use one example) from accessing the same life chances as the children of Tokyo Sexwale, Zwelenzima Vavi, one of the Oppenheimer clan or Judge President John Hlophe. Whether the law, the Constitution and the judiciary (regardless of its racial or gender composition) is a stumbling block to this third kind of “transformation” – well – I am still making up my mind about that.
What do YOU talk about when you talk about “transformation”.
25 Sep 2010, 12:54 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-263:
good post and quite thought provoking.
the concept is still unclear in my mind though.
one thing is clear – i will criticise the current regime for poor governance just as vigorously as i criticised the previous regime
25 Sep 2010, 14:41 pm
@charo(charo)-265: you are well within your rights to criticise the current government, in fact we need more people being critical of the incompetence anywhere in our society!
But unfairly equating transformation to the government’s incompetence and attempting to solely identify it by that incompetence is mischiveous and highly ignorant! Just because you fail to grasp what transformation is doesn’t give you the right to disparage it willy-nilly.
25 Sep 2010, 14:43 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-264: top post, quite enjoyed it.
25 Sep 2010, 17:30 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-264:
A very enlightening and highly revealing article which will not be accepted by the most of the former franchised(read favoured) lot and those of them who do accept it will do so with varying degrees of reservation, all of this because the one thing they truly worship i.e. the faces on the money bills, is severely threatened to the extent that, especially those ‘middle-classers’ feel they have or are losing control of that(and that in itself shows their collective stupidity).
Also negative to this former favoured lot is the fact that this enlightened ‘Afrikaner’ intellectual placates those who are dishonest among them as being “unscrupulous” and having “nefarious” intentions and attitudes and that to them is too DAMNING and increases the already unacceptable pain of GUILT 10 fold.
They will NOT accept the positive ideas(and there are many) of the article.
In reality this says(amongst other things)that for the small high point of the triangle to be drawn closer to the wide-based low point it will have to be done at the loss of that small high point. This spells out FEAR to these delinquents hence the baseness and depravity and sreams of their shouts when they argue in their non-South African manner.
25 Sep 2010, 17:46 pm
@-265</
" the concept is still unclear in my mind though "
You say what we all, who are forward thinking, know already and that is that you lack the cortical capacity to grapple with social ideas honestly because of inherent selfishness which fuels your fears of the controls you have lost.
Stay in "darkest" Africa at your own peril but you long for the better standards of S.Africa however much you decry that and the changes being forged for equality.
Also " ….criticise the previous regime"?
What a sick joke. What even MILD protests did you engage in prior to 1994? I bet you did not even whisper "Amandla" in your toilet let alone your bathroom? How many bouts of 90 or 180 days of detentions did you have to endure while your like the other up to 87% voted in those racist Nats. and ALL other choices whilst lapping up as much milk and honey in the process of so doing.
Don't bother to reply because it is likely just to be more of the same. LIES, LIES, LIES.
Rot on in "darkest" Africa you dishonest imbecile.
25 Sep 2010, 21:45 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-253:
What a paranoid phony you are. But again the wisdom in me dictates to my better understanding of pathetics like you that all this blubber and bluster of the 3 blind rats stems from fear of the unknown and fear of loss of erstwhile total control and fear of FEAR itself.
For your sanity you should really go back to your homeland, Scotland, unfortuunately for them.
25 Sep 2010, 21:55 pm
Enter the “no one is worthy because I am so educated and full of myself” twat
25 Sep 2010, 22:08 pm
@JL1(JL1)-258:
I can, and have earned the right to, accept a “holier than thou attitude ” and would that that is not a bad thing to be accused off. It is far better than to exhibit a total lack of sensitivity, an attitude of a prejudiced oaf or the bigotry of a hypocrite as you do.
You clearly lack the wisdom to do anything else but to show your naked racist attitudes to people who for 342 years were denied the simplest basic opportunities of life that you were not denied even when you left the shores of your homeland.
25 Sep 2010, 22:13 pm
@ET(ET)-271: Did I speak or refer to you?
Back into your butchers hole, I say
25 Sep 2010, 22:16 pm
@JL1(JL1)-271:
Certainly, relative to you and your other blind bigoted-but- revealed-and-exposed-for-all-the-world-to-see rats.
25 Sep 2010, 22:20 pm
@JL1(JL1)-273:
Crudeness and rank bad depravity due to a lack of ideas and total lack of comprehension and thus rationality.
Do you even realise that your original comment I referred to stupidly says that all people who are not white are only good for herd boys? Just accept your STUPIDITY.
25 Sep 2010, 22:20 pm
@ET(ET)-273: Your OCD seem to be getter the better of yourself, grab another bottle if vino, Dr Alco
25 Sep 2010, 22:26 pm
@JL1(JL1)-273:
Do you know and accept that your anger and haterd really stems directly from your wanting to truly be back in sunny South Africa as you realise that you cannot cope with the big world out there?
My advice to you see a psychologist or simpler still go back to a changed S. Africa and just accept that it has forever changed and you can do absolutely nothing meaningful about it.
Oh and stop drinking as it does not remove the problem that exists for you.
25 Sep 2010, 22:29 pm
@JL1(JL1)-276:
You will never even truly comprehend the simple word of moderation and how I can monotonously apply it to life.
This is so one-sided to the extent of creating great boredom. It is no different than taking candy from a baby.
Bye now depraved one.
25 Sep 2010, 22:48 pm
@JL1(JL1)-271:
Yes I know and understand that is how you feel(not being worthy) when even in your pack of wolves gangs and mentality you still cannot get the better of me to shut me up.
More importantly though do you understand why that happens?
Simply it is easy for me and very difficult for the pack because I base my responses on the TRUTH whereas the pack has for historical reasons beenforced to resort to distortions, half-truths and toal outright lies in their attempts to discredited anything and anyone bent on the truth.
25 Sep 2010, 22:51 pm
@ET(ET)-276: You are a fake, a pathetic imbecile telling me to go to SA
Your type should not be trusted
Sitting in the USA telling all and sundry what to do, why don’t you go back
25 Sep 2010, 23:06 pm
All that Prof. Pierre De Vos is really saying(for the benefit of Cab) is that when you speak of equality in a society where a small % of people have been grossly favoured for 342 years and a bigger % have been denied those favours in that time you have to take away from the favoured and give that to the non-favoured to bring the 2 groups closer together(that is what AA simply is). Simple arithmetic really.
Only when that process is totally complete can we truly speak of equality for all. The same process really applies to the concept of merit selection also.
But ironically Blacks are not even asking for that hard-to- accept(by the formerly favoured) demand. All they(Blacks) are saying is accept that there is a need for the prerviously favoured and the previously non-favoured to move closer together on the graph of life and show some effort to that end.
More importantly stop squealing like ruptured pigs when you are treated like pariahs after you clearly indicate by word and DEED that you are not willing to accept that demand for a movement towards equality and merit.
25 Sep 2010, 23:07 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
From a discredited and depraved poster. How RICH?
25 Sep 2010, 23:08 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
Purely for your sanity.
25 Sep 2010, 23:08 pm
@ET(ET)-283:
I am going back soon.
25 Sep 2010, 23:14 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
Just accept that your original comment to Transie was in bad taste, thus insensitive to millions of innocent, humble people.
That’s not your leg or arm or even left testicle asked for.
25 Sep 2010, 23:17 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
Has your alcohol got total control of your faculties now to the point you do not know right from wrong?
25 Sep 2010, 23:52 pm
@ET(ET)-285:
sorry to say but you are nothing but a boring, nothing individual
26 Sep 2010, 00:07 am
i was reminded of what transormation means again today.
played golf at the premier club in ghana this afternoon.
the same place that top government and business individuals choose to be members of.
the mens toilets had no lights and didn’t flush.
and stunk to high heaven.
and this was acceptable???????
only in africa… as they say
26 Sep 2010, 00:09 am
@charo(charo)-287:
what a racist post you illiterate umlungu!!
27 Sep 2010, 14:58 pm
-287: -289:
If this below:
[ 285. ET(ET) :
September 25th, 2010 at 11:14 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
Just accept that your original comment to Transie was in bad taste, thus insensitive to millions of innocent, humble people.
That’s not your leg or arm or even left testicle asked for. ]
CLOSE QUOTE
is a racist post, then you have not only lost your faculties but I doubt you ever had any meaningful facuties at ALL stupid.
Where again have you been forced to eek out a living again now that the milk has turned SOUR and the honey turned BITTER?
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 [6] Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.