EP’s fresh start
23 Sep 2010
EP Kings director of rugby Alan Solomons talks to GRANT BALL about transformation, keeping players in the province, and getting ready for Super Rugby.
What has the move from Ireland to Port Elizabeth been like?
I’ve found myself coming full circle. I was born in Uitenhage and went to school at Grey PE. There’s a bunch of good people at EP, from the CEO Anele Pamba to president Cheeky Watson. Good people make a huge difference in a move like this. I still do the odd bit of consulting for the IRB, but it’s not a big thing.
How difficult was it luring back players who were earning big salaries overseas?
That’s the fantastic thing about guys like Darron Nell and Rory Duncan. They appreciate what we’re doing here. They want to be here at the start of the journey and they know there’s light at the end of the tunnel. For Darron, I think the whole experience of playing in a British & Irish Lions game made a big difference to him. He was here for 10 days for that game, and he could see he was a part of something good. In that regard it wasn’t difficult getting back guys who are from the region. In terms of general recruitment, we really need a Super Rugby franchise, because other good players with no previous links to the area want to play at that level. But that will be resolved, and we’ve been guaranteed Super Rugby entry in 2013 by Saru. As far as I’m concerned, we’ve been given unequivocal backing from the top. It’s got to happen now.
What’s your response to people who say the Kings’ Super Rugby inclusion won’t be a boost for transformation?
Against Boland we had four players of colour in the starting team, but Mpho Mbiyozo was still injured and for the first time this season, less than a third of the side was black. But that’s not what this team’s about. There’s no numbers game and everyone is picked on merit. There’s a relaxed atmosphere at training and guys speak English, Afrikaans and Xhosa. The black guys feel at home more than they do anywhere else. I’ve selected a leadership group of six players, and of those, only De Wet Barry isn’t from the Eastern Cape. We’ve also got Tiger Mangweni, Mzwandile Stick, Darron, Rory, and Mpho. De Wet’s committed himself to the region, proof of which is him learning to speak Xhosa. When we played the Valke the following week, we had six players of colour in the starting team and two on the bench. That isn’t an issue for us, and it shouldn’t be for the pessimists.
Will you be able to get black players to return to the Eastern Cape?
I’d love it if every black player who’s been developed in this region came back, because they get lost at some of the other unions. Without a Super Rugby franchise in the Eastern Cape they’ve had no aspirational pathway. It’s going to be tough, but we’ve started a process. You can see from all the players’ body language how happy they are to be back home. My motto is to bring them home and keep them home. They want to be part of something special.
How do you think Mbiyozo will make the transition from sevens back to the 15-a-side game?
I coached Mpho at UCT [University of Cape Town] in 2005 when they were part of a relegation scrap, and he was exceptional. I couldn’t understand why he hadn’t got any opportunities with WP and the Stormers. We saw when he played for the Kings against the Lions last year – he hadn’t played 15s for a while and he was adjudged Man of the Match. I don’t think he’ll battle with the adjustment. He’ll be back by the end of August after keyhole surgery on his shoulder which he injured while playing sevens.
What’s been the key to EP’s best Currie Cup campaign in years [they are top of the First Division log]?
It’s difficult to comment on the past few years as I wasn’t here, but hard work has been vital. Everyone here has been prepared to do it – from the administration, to the coaching staff, to the players. We’ve tried new things with the players, and they’ve been happy to embrace change. We made things difficult for ourselves against the Griffons but got the result, and the win against Boland away from home was a big victory for us. Winning breeds confidence.
What was the thinking behind bringing backline coach David Maidza from the Border Bulldogs?
David worked with us against the Lions and I was very impressed. When we approached him, he could see a bright future. He’s a first-class coach and an outstanding guy. He’s looking to develop himself as a coach and we want to give him opportunities to travel. We’ve made a tentative approach to the Western Force for him to go there for two or three weeks in December to work with Richard Graham, who will be their coach once John Mitchell leaves. Rich is a brilliant skills and backs coach, and all coaches should want to up-skill themselves, which is what David wants to do. He is highly intelligent, articulate and he’s got a good manner with the players.
Why did EP change its name to the EP Kings this season?
Cheeky and Anele were behind the thinking and know more about the reasoning, but I think it’s great. Everything about the team is new; we’re moving into the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium on 1 September, and wanted a fresh start. The Mighty Elephants belonged to the Boet Erasmus and things are changing with the Kings. This is a new beginning.
How do you plan to incorporate Border and SWD into the Kings franchise?
I don’t see it as a problem. When I coached the Stormers, we easily negotiated bringing in Boland and SWD. You always have an anchor union, which EP are here, and it makes sense as PE is the biggest city [compared to George and East London] and we have the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium. With the Stormers, we had camps in George so that SWD felt part of the franchise, and we also played warm-ups against Boland and SWD.
How does your job as director of rugby branch into other areas?
We’re doing our best with the professional team, but it’s also about under-pinning that with high-performance teams. We’ve started working with the schools, age-group sides and universities in the region, which never happened in the past as there essentially hasn’t been any professional rugby here, and therefore none of the professional structures. We’re also taking a road trip to the top 27 schools in the region with guys like [former Bok centre] Danie Gerber and [ex-Bok prop] Robbie Kempson.
How long will it take to stop the excessive loss of players to other unions?
It will take two or three years to arrest the haemorrhaging. We’ve made inroads already and we’ll make academy signings this year. It’s all part of a process.
Some argue that even though the Cheetahs have a Super Rugby franchise they still loseplayers. Why will the Kings be any different?
It’s very simple. The Cheetahs lose players every year because for some or other reason they don’t perform at Super Rugby level. They aren’t as wealthy as the other unions and their players get poached, and therefore they’re unable to compete. But we’ll have the financial wherewithal that the Cheetahs don’t have and we’ll make a mark in Super Rugby. The consequence is that the players will stay.
How important is it to gain promotion to the Currie Cup Premier Division next season?
That’s the ideal scenario. Like everyone in the First Division, we’re looking to move up. We want to play a higher level of rugby. If we play in the Currie Cup Premier Division in 2011 it will facilitate our entry into Super Rugby two years later. But we’ve only played a few games and aren’t even halfway through the season, so it’s early days. Our ambition is to get to the Premier Division. At times we might go sideways or a little backwards, but ultimately we’re moving forward. People in the region have seen what’s happening and interest is rising. We must also remember that we had the most representative rugby crowd for the Kings’ match against the Lions last year, which shows the interest and hunger for sport across all racial groups. Although not every South African has links with the Eastern Cape, we should all be working together to support the union, not criticise it.
Is EP going to set up a rugby academy?
Our ideal model is to have players coming from high school to the academy while studying at varsity in PE, playing for EP U19, and also NMMU [Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University] in the Varsity Cup and the local league. NMMU will model themselves on our structures, and our academy players will be based at the stadium, along with all the senior players. The university and academy will play a central role in the development of the franchise.
How worrying is NMMU’s last-place position in the Varsity Cup?
We’ve got to tackle the problem of NMMU. We had our first meeting with their staff at the start of the season and have rekindled our involvement with them. We want them to be a success, not like the recent past. We’re determined to make them powerful, which they have to be for the sake of the province. NMMU have to be a
pathway for players to the senior team; they must have the same approach as the professional side.
– This article first appeared in the September issue of SA Rugby magazine
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289 Comments
23 Sep 2010, 10:19 am
EP
23 Sep 2010, 10:26 am
Darem min ABSA’s in die baai
23 Sep 2010, 10:30 am
ep have had more fresh starts than Lindsay Lohan.
23 Sep 2010, 10:32 am
LOLOL
23 Sep 2010, 10:33 am
2 downfalls for EP was A Coetzee & Quinten Davids
23 Sep 2010, 10:34 am
Solly, care to explain one of your players Paul Perez and why a player deported from NZ (had his VISA revoked) and accused of beating his girlfriend/partner is doing at the Kings given your pretty tales above?
Surprised you did not ask him Grant?
23 Sep 2010, 10:35 am
Perez = Gibbs … must say Perez is a great player.
23 Sep 2010, 10:38 am
@ABSA: So Gibbs is a great player?
23 Sep 2010, 10:39 am
WAS a great player. for a season or 3 ..like habana
23 Sep 2010, 10:43 am
on the subject of cricket, its a disgrace that Loots Bosman is in the SA T20 team and Davey Jacobs is not. Shocking!!
23 Sep 2010, 10:58 am
Comrade Loots Bosman was the first player to hit a T20 hundred in SA maybe even Internationally! Show Respect
23 Sep 2010, 11:04 am
yes Solly, why did you import that Polynesian thug. Are you that desperate to gain access to the CC premier division to import ccriminals wanted by Interpol.
23 Sep 2010, 11:05 am
and he is useless now.
23 Sep 2010, 11:07 am
Redlion, ek sal ook worry as ek jy is. Volgende jaar mag die lions net sukkel teen die kings
23 Sep 2010, 11:11 am
@Pissant: don’t know where that fits in but yeah, you have your reasons..
Deported Taranaki rugby winger Paul Perez
has found himself a new home in South
Africa after picking up a contract with
Eastern Province.
The 24-year-old arrived in the republic last
week, three days before he was asked to
play for Eastern Province against Border in
the first division – the tier below the Currie
Cup competition.
The opportunity comes just weeks after he
had a lucrative contract with French club
Toulon ripped up after he failed to get a
visa in time to make their pre-season
training.
Eastern Province are top of the first division
after six rounds and Perez made an
immediate impression with the home fans,
scoring a try in the third minute in Eastern
Province’s 49-6 win over Border.
Speaking to South Africa’s Weekend Post
newspaper, the former Samoa sevens rep
said he was determined to help his side
reclaim their Currie Cup status.
“I could not have wished for a better start. I
was delighted with the way things turned
out with that early try in the corner,” he
said.
Perez is determined to make a success of
his new life in South Africa after a brush
with the law in New Zealand earlier this
year, involving an assault charge that
resulted in him being deported back to
Samoa.
“That is all behind me and I am
concentrating on the future. I don’t even
want to talk about it,” he said.
“I just want to move forward and get on
with my life.”
Perez said he had settled in well and his
team-mates had even started teaching him
Afrikaans.
“Paul has not been with us for long, but he
has settled in really well. He is clearly a team
player and that aspect of his game has
already manifested itself,” Eastern Province
Kings marketing and publicity officer Sakki
Gqeba said.
“Paul can become a big star with EP,” Gqeba
predicted.
Perez said his impression was that rugby in
South Africa was much more physical than
in New Zealand.
23 Sep 2010, 11:18 am
15 Transumfana: I thought EP was only for Xhosa’s plus a few token mlungus…
23 Sep 2010, 11:19 am
Perhaps this will help…
JJ Harmse
So let me tell you something about Paul Perez. You know, the Samoan who is playing for the EP Kings in the Currie Cup First Division? Yes, that guy on the wing, who has scored three tries thus far in their First Division campaign in 2010.
Is he the same guy who was expelled from New Zealand, had his visa revoked and had to return to Samoa, despite a provincial contract (= working permit) with Taranaki, you may ask?
Is he the same guy, who according to the Taranaki Daily News of December 2, 2009, “had been sent to Auckland by his rugby union mentors for anti-violence counselling before the incidents on May 29 and 31”? After assaulting his female partner?
The player, who according to the same newspaper, ‘was in further trouble when he was stopped by police for driving without a licence on October 10, 2009)’?
I don’t know for a fact, but I believe he is, as the EP Herald reported it a couple of weeks back.
Now look, I have nothing against Perez, and as a matter of fact, I have never met him. Looking at his record and what I am writing here, I actually pray that I never do!
The thing is, how on earth did he end up at the Kings?
They are supposed to be the new flavour of rugby, with a lot of exciting things happening. The answer to all that has been neglected in the past.
There is a fantastic stadium, a team on the up, with genuine rugby people like Alan Solomons as head coach and De Wet Barry as captain running the comeback ship and, remember, the great freedom fighter, Cheeky Watson as president.
We were bombarded, week in and week out, by those in the know, that the Southern Kings had to have Super Rugby right now. Immediately.
Not necessarily because they deserved it on rugby grounds, but because a former SA Rugby boss (Brian van Rooyen) tried to relieve the political pressures of his job with a cheap alternative.
His successor, Oregan Hoskins, and the good people of the SA Rugby board, who are only too aware of the importance of corporate governance after Van Rooyen’s financial debacles, tried to stand by the promises made, only to be confronted by the economic realities of the region.
As you read this, the proposed partners of the Kings are in dire straits.
SWD are under administration and Border are in court all the time it seems, so much so that a court order some time this week will determine which of the clubs in that union will travel to Stellenbosch as their legitimate club champion in order to participate in the national club championships.
In all of this, the EP Mighty Elephants, no EP Elephants, no EP Kings stood proud in their principles and morals.
Their claims on inclusion into the bigger brotherhood of the rugby family (and profit) was fuelled by a genuine expectation that SA Rugby would deliver on their promise, and more importantly, that they can rejuvenate the ‘crib of black (African) rugby’, to the advantage of South African rugby as a whole.
How many times have they not issued press statements, demanding clarity on SARU’s stance on their (Kings) expectations? How many times have you and I not read about the unlimited resources of black talent locked up and shackled by SARU’s reluctance to give the Eastern Cape Super Rugby?
As we say in Afrikaans, ‘slaan my om met ‘n veertjie’, with regards to Perez.
I am the last one to pass judgment on a rugby player, but on what moral grounds have the EP Kings contracted Perez?
He was deported from New Zealand for domestic violence issues and had to return to Samoa. He has played for Samoa at international Sevens level, so is not eligible for any other country.
Does he look like a good role model for South African kids? Does he look like someone you could justify a work permit for, knowing that he could be keeping a young, black rugby player out of a contract?
I don’t think so.
It is a horrific thought that Perez is depriving a black kid, a son of the EP soil (whoever he might be), a chance to perform on a bigger stage.
I find it sad that the Kings, who are claiming moral high ground with the politicians and the greater rugby fraternity, are paying money to someone with such a dodgy record and by doing so, are depriving one (or 10) of those players they are supposed to nurture, of the opportunity to earn a living and to represent their country.
On that point, let me tell you about the Kings hooker, Antonio Halangahu. I think he used to captain Randwick club in Sydney…
23 Sep 2010, 11:20 am
I hear Paris Hilton was licked out of Japan a couple of days ago….I wonder if the EP are looking for an extra hooker??
23 Sep 2010, 11:22 am
eish licked = kicked. Freudian slip of the highest order there…
23 Sep 2010, 11:23 am
18 Pissedant: Unlock the “talent” in EP, hire a Samoan delinquent…
23 Sep 2010, 11:25 am
20: Stormerstoy: Yeah if that was a freudian slip, sorry for you… licking Paris Hilton under any circumstances is not advisable…
23 Sep 2010, 11:25 am
HG,
I have really lost patience with these guys – in the Solly article yesterday that business man that pleaded with SA Rugby to give the Franchise to a business consortium is something long overdue.
23 Sep 2010, 11:29 am
23. It is long past farce… Giving it to a business consortium is one thing but why not take a first simple step and hire a competent administrator… even from outside rugby…
23 Sep 2010, 11:30 am
Which is why I say go the business consortium route, administrators in rugby have proven themselves time and time again to be cut from the same cloth.
23 Sep 2010, 11:31 am
sheesh you guys amaze me … eerste se julle as OP in CC Premier of Super 15 wil speel, moet hulle dit verdien, noudat hulle klomp spelers gekoop het en wen (1ste op die log) nou kla almal oor daar te min swart spelers is en dat wen nie saak maak nie, maar eerder transformasie.
23 Sep 2010, 11:31 am
@Heavens Game: I Know! Major health hazard.
23 Sep 2010, 11:34 am
#9
are you still angry for Gibbs after he took Minky from Greame.
23 Sep 2010, 11:35 am
adi, that was a k@k story anyway. Gibbs even said so himself. Mind you, most guys probably had her anyway. Gibbs is just too ugly with his sproete and stuff
23 Sep 2010, 11:36 am
25. Pa – Look, although Van Zyl from the Sharks does have his wobblies, he is proof they do exist and can function in the right environment…
It seems though that competent aministrators in Sa are a rare breed… but as you have pointed out in the past, it is the amateur, committee based system that often prevents powerful proactive adminstrators from being appointed…
23 Sep 2010, 11:36 am
let me get this straight, it’s acceptable for some here that rassie & ac imported matt to’omua from the brumbies to play in the currie cup and deprive conrad hoffman a spot in the wp starting line up. Is it because hoffman is not a ‘son of the soil’?
And now hoffman has upped and left to the sharks
who was kak naqelevuki keeping out of the stormers/wp team?
Who was juan martin hernandez keeping out of the sharks currie cup team?
And the kak andy goode?
Ffs, is transformation of rugby the burden of only ep?
Sure the people in this union are actually vocal about their commitment to transformation, is that now a whip that they should be bliksemed with?
f*ck jj harmse!
23 Sep 2010, 11:39 am
spot on transformation!
23 Sep 2010, 11:40 am
31 Transumfana: look twatstick you chasing shadows here… WP has been able to sustain itself as a Union and it does not position itself as the Union best place to “Unlock the massive talent base” of the Eastern Cape… If you position yourself like that it looks silly selecting a Samoan scallywag….
23 Sep 2010, 11:41 am
I struggle to remember anyone happy with WP’s imports…
Secondly, they themselves painted them with that brush on transformation, taking the moral high ground on the issue, playing political games.
If you proclaim yourself to be something, don’t cowar away when you are judged on it.
23 Sep 2010, 11:43 am
hhhaaa hhhhhaa transie
you have had your fair share to say about some of those selections.
The boots on the the other foot now.
Geniet.
23 Sep 2010, 11:45 am
I’m withn Pissant on this one, EP played the Transformation card as one of the chief reasons that they should be given the franchise. All the talent in the Eastern Cape and all that…..
The chickens coming home to roost??
Having said all this, if the get promoted for next year, they’ll have 2 years in the top division to continue to “develop” players (read: buy or convince enough established stars to come to PE) in time for the Super Rugby debut.
23 Sep 2010, 11:47 am
31 Transumfana: Goode was a farkup by most accounts – Dolf went dilly, not in buyng for the 10 position but in choosing the wrong player… However the Sharks unlike the EP learn from their mistakes – top of the CC log is a long way from wherever the fark EP are…
Hernandez is a marquee player and the Sharks have a successful tradition of selecting these players and being desirable as a destination for elite players from around the world – they all generally add to the Sharks (Mentors, Play or Marketing) in many ways rather than detracting….
Wake up fool…
23 Sep 2010, 11:49 am
@Heavens Game
That the best Mr T impression you could come up with??
23 Sep 2010, 11:50 am
at Gunther, Pissant: how many black kids was naqelevuki keeping out?
Is that fair judgement?
Who critisized chris jack being at wp? Are wp not committed to transformation?
Hehehe some of the judgemental hypocrites we have here astounding
like steve biko said ‘black man, you are on you own’ and don’t get me wrong, alan solomons is black
23 Sep 2010, 11:54 am
38: Stormerstoy: Yeah and Mr. T is needed for Transumf – he’s being contrary because he thinks this is an mlungu thing trying to keep the EP down… He is trying to point out imaginary duplicity where there is none…
He is a fool… a hlanya…
23 Sep 2010, 11:54 am
Go EP….
Lekker to see Solomons and Cheeky getting that region up to speed….great for SA Rugby.
23 Sep 2010, 11:55 am
Get L Watson back there as well…..add Mujati into the mix too…..
Love it…
23 Sep 2010, 11:57 am
42… yeah, mujati is from Transkei via mashonaland… fool
23 Sep 2010, 11:59 am
Paul Perez….. wtf???
Sounds too much like Dirk Diggler to me
23 Sep 2010, 11:59 am
HG…..you sommer gooi klippe without warning…..
prat
23 Sep 2010, 12:00 pm
Perhaps you are not reading what I said, if you paint yourself with a certain brush, don’t be surprised if you are going to be judged on it.
This region, as I mentioned to boredom in the past, have enough clout to make it on rugby reasons alone.
They, like most administrators however seem to be stuck on transformation, even promoting their cause solely based on this many times.
At one point you then have to ask why?
The answer is pretty obvious though, it seems if you want to be on the gravy train you have to be drinking from the same cup and play the same political games.
Problem I have with that, is once you go that route, you forget what you are supposed to do and what you are supposed to serve (being rugby) altogether.
My support for this region and their inclusion is pretty well known, but I am getting pretty tired of the games everyone is starting to play.
Enough of this kak though, got better things to do than to rehash old debates and arguments.
23 Sep 2010, 12:01 pm
Hierdie gedagte dat die EasternCape kamstag so vol talent is is
n pot stront!! Kyk ‘n bietjie hoe k@k vaar die OosKaap se clubspanne!!
23 Sep 2010, 12:01 pm
what is fundamentally wrong with contracting halangahu & perez (okay perez seems to be a bit of a nutjob)?
23 Sep 2010, 12:02 pm
@black man you are on your own…
that’s exactly right.
people were happy to criticise them. now the boot is on the other foot and you don’t like it?
should ep not be criticised where others have been?
time for a media tribunal.
I’m afraid black man you are on your own on this one
23 Sep 2010, 12:03 pm
EP should go after that Goosen laaitie
23 Sep 2010, 12:05 pm
Grantie Budgieforum CEO
Luke won’t be coming to the kings for a while.
he has had a falling out with pops.
23 Sep 2010, 12:06 pm
@Might
That’s right, because with all the major unions looking to get their hands on him he’s going to go to PE??
23 Sep 2010, 12:11 pm
pity …..Luke would have been an ideal captain there…..and of course could then also captain boks once the fat boys club hit the road.
23 Sep 2010, 12:12 pm
i wonder who will captain boks on eoyt…..i heard as many as 13 players may be left at home…
23 Sep 2010, 12:19 pm
@g10. Boks sending a 2nd XV up here then? people will be calling for the return of the senior players in no time.
23 Sep 2010, 12:20 pm
tenminste f0k die Warriors almal op … EP!!! (gisteraand net save gespeel om semi’s te maak)
23 Sep 2010, 12:23 pm
Wit seuntjie vra vir sy swart ma: Mamma, hoekom is ek wit en jy is swart?
Mamma antwoord: My kind, ek was so wild in my jong dae, jy kan bly wees jy blaf nie!!!!!!!!!
23 Sep 2010, 12:27 pm
shut up you inbred cracker trailer park speed freak.
23 Sep 2010, 12:28 pm
@gunther: criticism is one thing and i have no problem with that, but prejudiced criticism is bullsh*t! Not once when i questioned andy goode or naqelevuki’s drafting by wp & sharks did the race of the player disadvantaged come into play, not once!
Now all of a sudden some ‘sons of the soil’ are exclusively deprived @ EP, please.
Every union affiliated with Saru has the responsibility to transform the game! Never mind that it has to take outside factors to nudge uncle toms like oregan hoskins into prattling on…
Anele Pamba has very tight links with Absa, i’ll have you know that
23 Sep 2010, 12:30 pm
Big Hit
Very good arcticle on Superrugby site in this regard….
I dont know how to cut n paste…..but a very insightful read
23 Sep 2010, 12:35 pm
absolutely.
but as pissant has commented the kings have positioned themselves as the posterboys of transformation.
anyway take race aside…lets just pretend its possible in sa.
ep has bags of talent no?
what are they doing with this joker?
same story as the fijian. and yes many people in the press etc wondered what he was doing there keeping someobdy like gio aplon (a transformational tick shall we put it) out of the side.
anyway if they change their mind I’m sure Anele Pamba knows someone at the home office who can get his work permit pulled.
23 Sep 2010, 12:37 pm
I realy like to keep an open mind about the Kings, but im afraid its not quite going to work out the way they want it to.
I agree that they will do well for transformation, but thats where it ends. They will be a transformation factory for the bigger unions, the Sharks, Bulls and WP wil be waiting for the kings to produce young talented black players, and they will snatch them away, with big cheques and an oppertunity to play for a top union. And no young player, black or white will turn down such an offer as it also gives them a better chance to be spotted to play for the Boks. So the Kings will be never get going and build a team that can compete at Super rugby level.
Look at the Lions\Cheetahs\cats, they have been part of super rugby since the start, and never realy managed to compete, a good example of how they have struggled over the years, is the Lions 2010 super14 campaign, losing all their matches, and they have been part of super rugby for over 10-15 years and still they dont compete.
So explain to me how will a union like EP hold on to their best players and compete at super rugby. Even by the time 2013 super rugby come, they will not be ready.Imagine the Kings playing the Bulls or Crusaders in super rugby, they will realy hurt them as they will have cricket scores knocked against them.
Use them as a matter of a transformation setup, as that they will do that well, but trying to compete in the best and toughest rugby tournament in the world. no way, its not happening!
23 Sep 2010, 12:38 pm
grant: next time i’m in cape town – which is soon – remind me to teach u how to cut ‘n paste
as gunther said i’m the ‘lionel messi’ of cut ‘n paste hahahahaha 
23 Sep 2010, 12:42 pm
We’ll see how many ‘ethnic blacks’ not the Malay hybrid the Kings bring into the 22, being in the ‘cradle of black rugby’.
23 Sep 2010, 12:42 pm
sharkie10: don’t be myopic, before this season which other union had lost all their super rugby games in a season, and who was their coach?
23 Sep 2010, 12:48 pm
its true transie you are an artist with that mouse.
a mouse dj.
23 Sep 2010, 13:10 pm
Contracting a foreign prop or hooker is one thing, because they’d hardly be keeping a son of the soil out. But a blêkwing? In the cultural home of the blêkwing? Surely that’ll get you summonsed to The Hague. The hills of the Eastern Cape are literally crawling with out of work blêkwings, and they pick a Polynesian rattail. Kohmpela is going to fckingplutz.
23 Sep 2010, 13:14 pm
ja transie
the blonde showed me twice….then gave up on me….fark i am not very good on this laptop…
all i do is keo and e mails !
23 Sep 2010, 13:25 pm
@grant10(grant10)-59: just read it, think they’re mad taking Jean De Villiers, he could do with the rest.
23 Sep 2010, 13:42 pm
@grant10(grant10)-67: the blonde seemed like someone with loads of patience
23 Sep 2010, 13:47 pm
64. Transformation(Transformation) the Bulls
23 Sep 2010, 13:55 pm
the comments here reflect SA society. Quite sad really. All the best to the EP Kings. Their only downside was that it took them so long to establish professional structures…….now lets see them grow.
And by the way remember a few weeks back how so many people were saying how poor the Lions were (even Keo himself)……see what good admin and a decent coach can do?
23 Sep 2010, 13:57 pm
@grant10(grant10)-67:
You call Just_Rugby ‘the blonde’?
23 Sep 2010, 14:00 pm
look jr isn’t a natural blonde…
just ever since he read breakfast at tiffany’s
23 Sep 2010, 14:01 pm
@XV(XV)-71: don’t worry, todd clever was not keeping jonathan mokuena out of the team. You see the lions are not ‘posterboys for transformation’ so anything goes with them, they can deprive ‘sons of the soil’ game time and it’s ok
.
So where’s clever now and where is mokuena?
23 Sep 2010, 14:02 pm
@gunther(gunther)-74: Eish… I think that went right over the Budgieforum’s heads… bloody funny!
23 Sep 2010, 14:06 pm
HG
yes they are not well read.
eish.
23 Sep 2010, 14:08 pm
no transie the lions are not posterboys for transformation.
the kings are.
ask solly.
23 Sep 2010, 14:24 pm
@gunther(gunther)-77: yes, f*cking beautiful duplicity
23 Sep 2010, 14:40 pm
@gunther(gunther)-78:
did the lions ever lay claim to be the engine room of transformation?
or only now that they are thinking of moving to FNB stadium?
23 Sep 2010, 14:53 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-74: I am on your side mate! Real transformation needs to begin in the mind. Its not about colour.
23 Sep 2010, 15:08 pm
@XV(XV)-81:
oops looks like a bit of friendly fire there.
blue on blue as we used to say in the stahn.
23 Sep 2010, 15:09 pm
@gunther(gunther)-79: they are signatories to the SARU transformation charter!
23 Sep 2010, 15:12 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-83:
surely they are all signatories?
but are they posterboys?
23 Sep 2010, 15:13 pm
@gunther(gunther)-79: this is exactly the type of hypocrisy i’m talking about, every union should be taken to task about transformation, not only those that are percieved to be ‘posterboys’! Every union!
23 Sep 2010, 15:16 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-85:
absolutely.
but the kings should be leading the charge no?
23 Sep 2010, 15:27 pm
@gunther(gunther)-85: they bloody are gunther, are you mad?
23 Sep 2010, 15:30 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-87:
good then they don’t need an imported backline player do they?
you are going to have to calm down on the kings my chum.
imagine when they start playing the super 15.
you are going to have a cardiac event.
23 Sep 2010, 15:32 pm
@gunther(gunther)-85: what you and pissant missed in the first place is that transformation is not ONLY about player numbers & colour! If the Kings are run by ‘businessmen’ like pissant & dumile are suggesting, then that will be TRANSFORMATION as it will mean they’be broken off the mould that has been used and is seemingly outdated!
Every bloody union should be striving to be posterboys of transformation!
23 Sep 2010, 15:35 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-88: And you seem to miss the point that the EP Kings can’t, for one minute, stop crowing about their transformation pedigree and plans. And then they go and import a ladybasher from Polyfuckingnesia. To play wing. In the spiritual home of the blêkwing. That, my transformer friend, is a little rich.
23 Sep 2010, 15:50 pm
This site is fcked. Does no one care anymore?
23 Sep 2010, 15:53 pm
@katman(katman)-89: indeed the site moer toe!
Keo’s weekly newsletter will return next
week Friday 30th September.
Have a great long weekend!
23 Sep 2010, 15:58 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-89:
run by businessmen?
then that will indeed be transformation?
what next municipalities run by managers?
where will this transformation end?
23 Sep 2010, 16:02 pm
@katman(katman)-89:when Alan Solomons talks, next time read with comprehension Puss-in Boots! ‘At times we might go sideways or a little backwards, but ultimately we’re
moving forward.’ quit being judgemental, it’s unbecoming!
23 Sep 2010, 16:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-93: Oh, so if you interject rubbish like that into whatever you’re saying, no one can hold you to your bullshit claims?
23 Sep 2010, 16:05 pm
@gunther(gunther)-92: did you not read what pissant said? You’re agreeing with him blindly hehehe
wouldn’t be suprised 
23 Sep 2010, 16:08 pm
“Mr Jackie Selebi, the court finds you guilty on all charges.”
“Objection, your honour. I clearly stated, on record, that I occasionally go sideways, or even backwards.”
“Oh, you did? Why did no one mention this to me? Bailiff, release this man.”
23 Sep 2010, 16:09 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-93: Come now Transie, you like the Kings, we get it. This does not entitle them to a free ride though. They are not exempt from criticism of any kind. This is Keo, there are no holy cows. You should know that by now. Being judgemental is what we are here for!
23 Sep 2010, 16:10 pm
@katman(katman)-96:
23 Sep 2010, 16:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-96:
you miss the point unsuprisingly…
and then take the low road…
23 Sep 2010, 16:14 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-97: hehehe just fending off these pretentious buggers
23 Sep 2010, 16:17 pm
What the Keengs will prove is that 15 quotas do not make a rugby team..
23 Sep 2010, 16:19 pm
@gunther(gunther)-99: is that you being precious?
23 Sep 2010, 16:25 pm
transie
so if the lions only field one black player but are transformed in that they are run by businessmen thats fine?
the kings are transformed in that they are run by businessmen (I’m using the word loosely where cheeky is concerned) and their lineout calls are in xhosa?
okay. at least everybody knows what it’s all about.
actually my maid’s name is maevis.
23 Sep 2010, 16:27 pm
@gunther(gunther)-103: They’re all about transformation there in the NM Bay. If all goes well, they’ll transform their Polynesian to donner okes too.
23 Sep 2010, 16:30 pm
@katman(katman)-105:
polynesian wing?
what next an italian groundsman?
this transformation business is confusing.
it means different things in conveniently different situations.
no wonder it is slow to catch on.
23 Sep 2010, 16:32 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-102: so what are you going to say when the EP Kings only field 2 black wingers and not the promised 70% black team in next years Currie Cup?
23 Sep 2010, 16:34 pm
@RedLion is born again(RL)-106: or was it 50%, 60%, 80% black … I do not remember.
Help me.
23 Sep 2010, 16:35 pm
@gunther(gunther)-105: And they’ll sell Falafels and Sangria at the stadium. But the winners of the food tender will be transformed, connected and blêklikeme.
23 Sep 2010, 16:38 pm
@katman(katman)-109:
I can tell you are untransformed in your thinking…
I order you to go on a political re-education course.
How does two weeks at Club Med in Cuba sound?
23 Sep 2010, 16:38 pm
@gunther(gunther)-103: mavis is not an ethnic name, ask he what her real name is
23 Sep 2010, 16:40 pm
@gunther(gunther)-109: As long as I can use my regular travel agent. We have a sweet deal going where everyone benefits *wink*. It’s called Transformed Travel.
23 Sep 2010, 16:40 pm
@gunther(gunther)-103: What Transie is alluding to isnt the tangible. The businessmen, Xhosa-speaking, etc. Its a shift in mindset which brings about real transformation. You are looking for a tick box exercise 9kinda like a BBBEE scorecard). Xhosa-speaking. check. Businessmen? check. Politically connected? check. There you go Level 1 BBBEE status! Transie is talking about rewiring your brain, the very way you think.
23 Sep 2010, 16:41 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-111:
she says Mavis is her white man’s name when she fills out her UIF.
Her african name that she uses for her social grant is Mangolitchiguava
23 Sep 2010, 16:46 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-113:
a nebulous concept no.
open to abuse? who decides when one is transformed?
when you agree with them or not.
sorry but this sort of thing makes my bullshit detector quiver like an ice skaters nipples.
If my brain were rewired and I still hired a polynesian wing.
I would ask the black mechanic for my money back.
23 Sep 2010, 16:49 pm
fark me i have laughed a lot today.
Katman and Gunther…..great stuff….you okes should charge an entrance fee.
23 Sep 2010, 16:54 pm
the conundrum is…… when is something transformed enough?
when will epru reach full transformation?
has the pe general hospital transformed enough yet?
let’s say it is now at the standard of the average ghana govt hospital….is this the correct level?
or should it strive harder and achieve the lagos level?
or perhaps with continued effort we can celebrate a congo level?
these are the things the management of ep kings have to ponder.
23 Sep 2010, 16:54 pm
@gunther(gunther)-114: I would suggest to the big unions to tell ABSA to fck off then, as their thinking is wired for transformation, even though their starting 15 isn’t. And which is more important?
23 Sep 2010, 16:55 pm
@charo(charo)-116: Hola, charo. How goes it an all?
23 Sep 2010, 17:02 pm
charo…..you are so seriously ,inherently, stubbornly, full of racist attitude…..dammit mate…..you have no idea how pi ssed off i get when i see kak comments like that….
Fark it!
23 Sep 2010, 17:04 pm
@katman(katman)-118:
still jiving with the ankles….
and jiving with the hips…..
….and taking the money off the other expats on the golf course
23 Sep 2010, 17:06 pm
@grant10(grant10)-119:
ever been to a govt hospital in sa?
or ghana?
or lagos?
try it…….
might open your eyes
23 Sep 2010, 17:06 pm
@charo(charo)-120: With a solid short game, I hope, and not with knives and threats.
23 Sep 2010, 17:07 pm
Must run. Cheers all. Go Lions.
>^..^<
23 Sep 2010, 17:08 pm
@charo(charo)-121: not the point Charo.
But leave it…..better things to do….
outta here
23 Sep 2010, 17:15 pm
@charo(charo)-116: you are the worst case scenario, there’s not even a point to attempt to reason with you…with your 1st comment of the day you equate transformation to falling standards or mediocrity
23 Sep 2010, 17:19 pm
@grant10(grant10)-119: leave him grant he is senile, no point talking to the cretin
23 Sep 2010, 17:25 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-125:
i am sure there are many good examples of it transie…..
lots of guys got wealthy on it.
unfortunately the average joe scraping together a living and needing public services is getting the rough end of the carrot.
of course, okes fannying about in clifton and camps bay don’t really need to worry about it.
23 Sep 2010, 17:27 pm
Cheers katters…
23 Sep 2010, 17:29 pm
The rough end of icarrot?
Sounds unpleasant to me.
23 Sep 2010, 17:29 pm
@charo(charo)-127: fark you charo…..your sick racism is in no way appeased because of where i live ffs…..
thank fark you okes out of power….bloody nazi mentality man! Sickens me.
23 Sep 2010, 17:34 pm
@grant10(grant10)-130:
mind the blood pressure grantie 8)
23 Sep 2010, 17:38 pm
@grant10(grant10)-130: relax man, it’s holiday time already…
Like i said, no need to get workd over this cretin…
Urban Dictionary
cretin
(charo)
A Person that is: brainless, stupid, child-
like, and full of pointless information that
makes no sense and appeals only to other
cretins. They can be found in abundance
in every single populated internet forum,
where they race to post as many mind-
numbing messages as possible in a single
session. In addition, they seemingly
interbreed with other cretins, ensuring
that their cretinous genes continue long
after they end up dead meaning the
Internet will never be rid of their kind.
More’s the pity.
charo and his friends like to post
messages on forums about how cool it is
to kick cats down stairs and throw banana
skins at hungry tramps. Clearly they are
cretins and should be eradicated from
existence.
23 Sep 2010, 17:41 pm
@charo(charo)-127: yes, yes there are ou toppie, what’s your handicap?
23 Sep 2010, 17:43 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-132:
“childlike, and full of pointless information”
“they race to post as many mind-
numbing messages as possible in a single
session.”
a tad rich coming from the umfaan?
23 Sep 2010, 17:44 pm
charo is chairman of the cretin club.
23 Sep 2010, 17:46 pm
@grant10(grant10)-130:
so boet…….
thinking about the underdog makes one a “nazi”?
seems the cbla have more important social matters to attend to then.
like name dropping restaurants on a rugby blog and all those freedom fighting efforts walking the dog on the beach.
8)
23 Sep 2010, 17:50 pm
@charo(charo)-136: charo…..you can throw all the smoke and mirrows you like….you know what you are….
outta here
23 Sep 2010, 17:56 pm
@grant10(grant10)-135: more like lifetime president, those ghanaians are too docile that’s why he likes them & punts them every chance he gets, they curtsy when he shows up…
HG is the secretary-general!
23 Sep 2010, 18:09 pm
@grant10(grant10)-137:
as opposed to a sarong-over-speedo wearing, lotus flower in hair tree hugging neo-revolutioary sprouting forth liberation chants from the clifton pad?
no poor farker in a shack can hear you anyway.
8)
23 Sep 2010, 18:42 pm
G10@137 Transie@138
I trust you guys see the obvious link staring you in the face from the exposed list below:
charo…fern…..rman…..sl…hg…?…?….?
That clearly is not the complete list but the point is palpably made.
23 Sep 2010, 18:49 pm
@ET(ET)-140: noted.
23 Sep 2010, 18:49 pm
@ET(ET)-140:
ahhh lab-mopper…
you put me in exalted company…
i am grateful
23 Sep 2010, 19:01 pm
@143
You are correct you are in exalted company with a fern and a potato peeler and a self-proclaimed janitor etc.
23 Sep 2010, 20:46 pm
@ET(ET)-141: Ja, decent unpretentious chaps on that list… No tendertrepeneurs, point five victims and patronising lilly liberals there… In short, real good okes…
23 Sep 2010, 20:50 pm
@charo(charo)-143: Lab-mopper? No chance… More like the cross-eyed bobbejan you see in those experiment lab documentaries about brain transplants…
23 Sep 2010, 21:10 pm
Grant
Jissus maar jy dink darem regtag die son skyn uit jou gat uit!!! Maak asof die ****** blog aan jou behoort, sleg moer!! Noudat Pietman, GBS en daai lot gefockof het nou dink jy jy is die dik piel hier op Keo. Ek wil kots elke keer as ek net jou nic sien!!
23 Sep 2010, 21:38 pm
@PapSak(papsak1)-146: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yoh Papsak i haven’t laughed like this in a while
you are crazy for this one 
G10 i’m sorry mate this guy has it in for you, he is crazy!
23 Sep 2010, 22:22 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-145:
hmmm maybe you are right.
probably explains the grade 7 level of forced dickensian english to poor bugger tries to use
23 Sep 2010, 22:23 pm
@charo(charo)-148:
to = the
bloody agents 8)
23 Sep 2010, 22:28 pm
@charo(charo)-149: he’s had a “hard” life… one or two electrode were left behind after the skullcap was stitched up…
its like those stories about chaps waking up from an op speaking a totally new language…
ET woke up not so long ago – so its not perfect…
23 Sep 2010, 22:46 pm
@charo(charo)-150: I see you stirred up a budgiesmuggler shitstorm…
hope all is good your side…
bed time for me…
23 Sep 2010, 22:55 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-151:
yes, me too.
just need to finish this superb tot of bowmore islay 12 year old single malt.
nothing better than a west coast peaty scotch.
old budgiesmuggler has a real difficulty in discerning between reality and pseudo liberalism.
must be that fresh atlantic air
23 Sep 2010, 22:57 pm
@charo(charo)-153: Nice one… cheers
23 Sep 2010, 23:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-153:
maybe tomorrow……?
been fun
24 Sep 2010, 05:45 am
Mpho is one of those unlucky players who is good enough to wear the Bok Jersey, like Killain or Alberts, who will given any bok chances as the agents and richer unions apply pressure to play their princesses.
Its clear from the last few years that the best players are not getting selected. Mpho could have easily been selected as our fetcher. Bloody shame and disgrace.
This could work and they should create a good player development structure and good brand. But I think AA will breed mediocrity as they will get given extra chances than deserved and create a Rose franchise they will get klapped every year.
There are great rugby schools in this region and it will be a shame watching the kids go elsewhere as they cannot get selected becasse of a transformation team. Racism is racism not matter how pretty the name is.
24 Sep 2010, 06:19 am
Blo ody hell, grant10 you need to change your nappy boet, you cry more than my baby sister…….
24 Sep 2010, 06:51 am
Hope they will have progressed to the A section of the CC when joining Superrugby. Will be interesting to see the make up of the team over the years.
24 Sep 2010, 07:19 am
Yo, Grant10
Could you you be any more judgmental
The guys have summed you up, a cry baby of note
Go ahead now, f me as much as you like
24 Sep 2010, 07:32 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-155: the last part of your message betrays your ignorance KR, don’t get sucked into the the numbers obsession! EP wants to keep all it’s players here, from Dewalt to Bjorn Basson, transformation & excellence are not inimical entities, f*ck what you been deluded to understand!
24 Sep 2010, 07:57 am
If Cheeky is so serious about transformation, why not appoint David Maidza as head coach?
24 Sep 2010, 08:02 am
@JL1(JL1)-160: oh, goodness, what is transformation JL1?
24 Sep 2010, 08:23 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-161: You tell me, because Border got transformed, transformed into rubbish, SWD got transformed kin to rubbish, EP was once a very strong union with a club champion year on year, but alas they also got transformed into a pile of dirt
So enlighten me and tell me what is transformation?
24 Sep 2010, 08:31 am
@JL1(JL1)-162: hahaha i see, when @ sea, suspend all reason and let foolishness kick in. Are the Valke a transformed team?
24 Sep 2010, 08:36 am
Why will EP not lose players like FS does … ummmm for the same reason there is a lot more cars heading to the coast over Xmas as opposed to Bloemfontein.
It’s just a better place.
24 Sep 2010, 08:56 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-156: Good point… Some good players, no matter what their shade, always lose out… it is the f.up with Sa rugby: talent ID and retention…
24 Sep 2010, 09:11 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-163: So Valke is the best you could mention, at least they not bankrupt
24 Sep 2010, 09:21 am
@JL1(JL1)-166: Read the article, listen to the responses … they are positive, not claiming anything they aren’t, understand the challenges and for the first time in a long time it looks llike the eastern cape has a bit of direction. It’s good for the region and the game in SA.
being a doomsday prophet isn’t going to make your team any better or more superior than they really are. EC has made big strides in closing the gap, whoever you support – are they maintaining that advantage they already had?
24 Sep 2010, 09:29 am
@JL1(JL1)-166: are the Lions a transformed team? They were certainly kak in super rugby this year.
For 5 years from ’98 – ’02 , the Blue Bulls were the kakkest team in super rugby, finishing last or second last in all those years. Was their mediocrity attached to transformation?
There’s no point talking to you, you’re clueless.
24 Sep 2010, 09:34 am
The last person to lead the FS to a trophy was Rory Duncan wasn’t it? An EP boy who came back to his roots.
24 Sep 2010, 09:36 am
i am looking forward to a strong EP.
used to love these battlers when domkrag was still around.
but if they keep punting the transformation issue and bringing in polynesian wife beating mercs then i will laugh, yes laugh, when they are given enormous hidings by the real power unions of sa rugby.
but we all know its just smoke and mirrors really, keeps the masses quiet.
24 Sep 2010, 09:39 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-170: at least they haven’t brought rubbish like andy goode to our country
24 Sep 2010, 09:44 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-171: ag, old andy was a nice oke transformation.
he was just not very good at rugby.
but at least he isnt a wife beater. where are all the incredibleks that we have been told about?
24 Sep 2010, 09:47 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-173: incredibleks – FarkLOL!!!!!!! Bwaaaaaaaaaaa….
24 Sep 2010, 09:50 am
you know?
the dozens, if not hundreds, of incredibly talented blek players that are being robbed of chances by racist white coaches.
just like solly.
or is solly cool because he is dancing the “transformation jig”?
haha, us whites are so clever, always finding a way to bamboozle the rest. look at mike sutclffe!
24 Sep 2010, 10:00 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-175: Ja, the Politburo still has no idea that Sutcliffe is actually just another subversive counter-revolutionary blaady agent… Bamboozling, bullsh.itting and manipulating is easy with transformation and B(insert a B or few)EE… a puppetmaster’s charter…
24 Sep 2010, 10:01 am
ffs don’t question the notion of “transformation” in the ec.
you will get called silly names by umfaan….
and labelled a fascist nazi by the budgiesmuggler
24 Sep 2010, 10:02 am
I see the ANC have decided that the expression service delivery needs to be relooked at because it encourages complacency and makes people feel like the state owes them something.
Social grants also need to be looked at because they encourage a culture if dependency.
Thirdly informal settlements are being looked at again. People are irritated that recipients of houses are selling them or renting them out and going back to informal settlements.
Joh this ANC is soundingore and more like a bunch of cynical moaning mhlungus.
24 Sep 2010, 10:09 am
haha HG, he is one of the smartest (if slimiest) whiteys around.
the oke has fleeced MILLIONS from under the nose of the anc. hell, if we all decided to do the “sutcliffe shuffle” we whiteys would STILL be leading the pack in terms of salaries.
disclaimer: i am merely pointing out inconsistencies in the system so dont get all woolly liberal with me please lefties
haha, charo mate, i was also drinking bowmore last night. from one of the bottles i brought back from Islay. also went to lagavulin and laphroaig and have some stock staring at me right now.
life is good.
24 Sep 2010, 10:14 am
What’s going on here
24 Sep 2010, 10:16 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-179:
talking about west coast single malts.
rugby is boring at the moment.
24 Sep 2010, 10:16 am
@gunther(gunther)-178: Have you not thought that the “third force” has finally subverted the anc and that the father of the nation is now a “Breetish” puppet used to perpetuate racist cliches against the majority…
24 Sep 2010, 10:16 am
so “service delivery” can become “bonsela for voting correctly”
social grants are too expensive. not enough left in the kitty for the familia. they have to go with cap in hand to the gupta gang and thats just not in the spirit of the 1948-1949 zulu transformation charter (see: all mahindi go home!).
looking at informal settlements is far better than touching them. sies! those things are dirty.
maybe if the zikhulise cleaning companies of this world (thats right, anc again folks) didnt build houses that fell down when it rains people wouldnt up and move back to a cardboard box.
meanwhile the soweto houses built in the 60′s soldier on.
but i digress. lets have more black players in the cc please, situation critical people!
24 Sep 2010, 10:18 am
@JL1(JL1)-160: why should cheeky appoint david, so that the likes of you can call him a quota coach? Hahaha not a chance. In one breath you want people to acquire skills and earn their way up the ladder in the same breath you want them fast-tracked into positions so that you can wail that they don’t make the cut
24 Sep 2010, 10:19 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-168: Kak, not mismanaged financially
We will see, transform as much as you like young Malema, transform as much as you like
24 Sep 2010, 10:20 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-180: ag, i am being cynical Dawnie.
nothing much really.
in other news, a club team from that greatest of provinces (KZN) named College Rovers (hate the fukkers but today we are all RO…ugh….eeeeeeeeeh…..sorry, cant do it) are playing maties in the finals.
look out for koos haarhof at flank. a relation of the rangers (by marriage).
i hope maties get a carrot.
24 Sep 2010, 10:22 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-182: question is who has got his arm up the president then?
24 Sep 2010, 10:24 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-185:
Chill … haven’t read all the the posts!
Just chiming in.
24 Sep 2010, 10:27 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-178:
Jinne
You white people got all the whiskey.
Here I have to budget carefully for the Grouse.
24 Sep 2010, 10:30 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-187: Ja but you see this is a complex and obscure series of puppet mastery worthy of any B(Insert another B or few)BE scorecard…
The father of the nation’s real puppet master is….
JuliusMalema…. who can be revealed to be the star of Leon Schusters new Movie : Venda in my Kitchen…
Starring Leon Schuster…
You see JuliusMalema is actually Leon Schuster and everything is one moe.rse publicity exercise for the new blockbuster…
24 Sep 2010, 10:34 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-190: The publicity slogan for the Blockbuster is:
If you cant take the Heat, stay out of the Keetchen… Emigrate you bastaards….!!!
24 Sep 2010, 10:45 am
i see Keos KKK elite Wit Wolwe in full swing this morning.
Puffing out there chests and shouting out the odds from far off shores…..
So superfulous to the countrys needs…..spat out by the new saffas….but still clinging to there delusional sense of importance. All the while the country moves on …..and is better off without the racists…who offer nothing more than hysterical rantings and criticisms…..never solutions or alternatives…..
The rest of us Saffas are enjoying the prospects of Heritage day…..the sea is blue….the sand is white…..the braai will be enjoyed with fellow saffas….so will the cold Windhoek lager.
And the enjoyment is magnified in the knowledge that the racists are far ,far away….spreading here cynicism and anti new SA poison…..but with every day that passes becoming less and less important in the greater scheme of things…..
Viva Freedom
Viva democracy
viva the new SA
and thank the angels we rid of the filth.
24 Sep 2010, 10:47 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-189:
24 Sep 2010, 10:48 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-168: You are a thick gravy train conductor, surely it must a,ways be best person for any job
Transformation did not help the Bulls, a good solid coach and structures did, the same as what they are now trying in EP, and Border because transformation failed, dismally
So now the best person for the job must go and fix what transformation fkd up
Show me success after transformation, please, go google and paste like you always do
You must a thicko believing everything on the net and in newspapers
24 Sep 2010, 10:55 am
Freedom is a murder total of 20000 per year
Freedom is the highest number of rapes in the world
Democracy is having no water, lights and services
Democracy is one doctor 100 000 patients
Viva to access to all the above, viva
24 Sep 2010, 10:59 am
@grant10(grant10)-192: but i’m here huckleberry.
its now racist to point out things you dont agree with?
helen zille must top your list then.
no one mentioned that any failures are due to race, rather they are due to incompetence and greed. these are not racial traits, they are human traits.
we simply blame it on the current mob, same as the old mob. you simply suck the k n o b of whoever is in charge.
but what about you soul
is it cold
is it straight from the mould
and ready to be sold?
(with thanks to Jack Johnson)
24 Sep 2010, 11:00 am
taking joy by highlighting the negatives….
ran awy so not here to assist with solutions
rather sit far away and break down all the good
point out how much better it was under nazi apartheid.
long for the ‘old days’
long for baasskap…
stay where you are….we dont need or want you okes back….
24 Sep 2010, 11:01 am
outta here
i feel like i need a shower after being too close to cyber nazis…..
yuch!!!
24 Sep 2010, 11:05 am
@grant10(grant10)-197:
Someone has to take orders from someone:
Transumfaan always takes orders from Budgiesmuggler…
Oregan Hoskens takes orders from Fatty von Zeuner…
Baasmanskap very much alive in azania, just the new baas speaks the language of inclusion…
24 Sep 2010, 11:08 am
@grant10(grant10)-196: No one is running away, but it seems some like to hide in their little beach enclave, living in a bubble, hey
24 Sep 2010, 11:18 am
It would be a safer bet putting money on a new franchise winning a Super title over the Lions or the Cheetahs. Even with everything supposedly in place and sponsorship aplenty, they still get their backsides handed to them week in and week out.
24 Sep 2010, 11:23 am
haha, i love that whole “ran away” thing.
its evidence of a very small mind and narrow outlook. just like the attempted labelling “nazis, apartheid” etc etc.
these are emotional outbursts and are actually a calculated attempt to shut down debate.
the long list of those who ran away: most recently, Luke Watson.
24 Sep 2010, 11:26 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-201: Grant10 should see his hero now, packing on the pounds now after that Heathrow injection
Maybe send him the same diet tips he used to vomit about John Smit
24 Sep 2010, 11:27 am
@JL1(JL1)-193: haha don’t lose it now buddy, just showing you that nobody has monopoly on mediocrity – between reynecke, de klerk, loffie eloff, hans coetzee, jake white & muir – they managed to reduce a once proud GLRU to kak in super rugby.
chew on that sh*t boy
24 Sep 2010, 11:38 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-203: So then we do not need transformation but rather the best person for the job
Not jobs for being one of the boys or jobs for being well tanned, or are you trying to get a transformation job?
24 Sep 2010, 11:50 am
@JL1(JL1)-193: hey dimwit, you can stay a pleb over there in england, we don’t need you mate
we’ve got guys here committed to Transformation! And we will overcome 
read & weep 
Jurie Roux, the South African Rugby
Union’s new CEO, does not plan on
wasting time when it comes to changing
people’s perception of what ‘true’
transformation is.
Roux, who will assume the operational
leadership of the organisation on October 1,
was officially introduced to the media in
Cape Town on Monday; having, on Friday,
been announced as the CEO designate.
The current Chairman of Stellenbosch made
it clear that he would “take guidance” from the Executive Council on the immediate
direction, but one of his first jobs would be
to complete the amalgamation of SARU and
SA Rugby (Pty) Ltd.
However, as always, transformation
featured prominently at Monday’s briefing;
where the 39-year-old showed off the skill
that has made him one of the most dynamic
administrators in South Africa.
Roux – who turns 40 soon – wasted no time
in tackling the perception that
transformation was just about numbers on
the field.
He also dismissed the notion that
transformation was an issue that could be
forced at the top-end of the game, saying it
works only “from the bottom up”.
“People always harp on about
transformation,” Roux said, adding:
“When
they come to transformation they get [stuck
on] to one thing and that is the number of
players other than the colour of white that
is on the field. – JL1 he is talking aout YOU
“That is not the only thing. You need to
transform people’s minds.
“That is probably one of the best things we
have done at Stellenbosch and that is to
transform people’s minds.”
Roux, in his guise as a Stellenbosch rugby
administrator and the Varsity Cup Board
Chairman, used the Maties’ victorious
Varsity Cup team as an example of “true
transformation”.
“At Stellenbosch there is no such thing as a
quota or anything like that. In the Varsity
Cup competition we never fielded anything
less that seven non-white players in the
matchday 22.
“In fact, we played eight non-white players
in the [2010] Final – each and every player
was on the field on merit. Somewhere we
are doing something right in terms of that
[transformation].”
Roux believes the key to the success of
Stellenbosch is that they started in the areas
where development was needed.
“We have this great thing run by Russel
Carelse, we call it the Maties Mitchell’s Plain
Academy. [We have] 127 schools
throughout Mitchell’s Plain, Khayelitsha,
Langa playing in our Academy.
“And, typical of Stellenbosch, other than
winning the Varsity Cup, we don’t put that
on the billboards everywhere… we just do
that.
“[You may ask] what are we getting? We
are reaping the fruits of the players coming
through to Stellenbosch to study. But not
only that, we are changing lives.
That
player, most probably, would never have
studied at Stellenbosch and would never
have been seen and that is how you do it.
“You’ve got to start from the bottom up…
You’ve got to have people who believe in
what they are doing and that really want to
do it.”
He also hit out at the ‘traditional’ hit-’n-run transformation clinics that are hung on
billboards, but achieve no real success in the
long term.
“If they have no passion and they run what
I call the ‘coke-’n-hotdog shows’, then you
might as well leave it,” declared Roux.
“What that means is that you get a
previously disadvantaged player out for an
hour on Saturday, he gets a hotdog, a T-
Shirt and a coke and now you think you’ve
changed their lives.
“You have done nothing other than to
expose him to an hour’s rugby.
“You need to start from the roots up and
that is how you transform.”
He added that the system used to transform
Stellenbosch could be used to the benefit of
other clubs, universities and – eventually -
filter itself through to provincial and
national level.
“I would just be stupid if I did not use all the
skills and abilities I have gained over the
last 16 years,” he said, when asked about
transformation at provincial, Super 14 and
Springbok level – where the numbers game
is still very important in some quarters.
“If I’ve got something from Stellenbosch,
yes, if I’ve got something from anybody
else I would try to use that where it is to the
benefit of the company [SARU] and where it
adds value… I have no doubt about that.
“I think I do have additional skills [obtained]
through the processes that we had to go
through at Stellenbosch. I had awesome
mentors – some people who are very
committed to not only transforming
Stellenbosch, but transforming whatever we
do at Stellenbosch, be that rugby or
anything else.
“There are a lot of competent people and I
will use what I’ve learnt from them.”
Crucially, however, Roux added: “It was
never me that transformed Stellenbosch,
Stellenbosch transformed itself.
“I will try and use some of that in
everything I do at SARU.”
24 Sep 2010, 11:58 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-206: Define “Transformation”…
24 Sep 2010, 11:59 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-205: Old hat story, read his in depth interview a couple of weeks ago
Actually t u r d, I never mentioned anything about number of players, Roux seems to be the best man for the job and rightly so,
Transformation by appointing someone like PDV was a” hotdog and coke”show especially if you then admit to it
Look at his focus, “merit” and that will give you a clue that you are not in his plans, so there goes your job out the window that you thought you will get
24 Sep 2010, 12:01 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-206: that’s the question i asked JL1 here this morning already!!!!
24 Sep 2010, 12:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-209: and I am asking you… or are you too shitscared of the state of your own bamboozlement…
24 Sep 2010, 12:08 pm
@JL1(JL1)-207: do you think i want a job at SARU? You’re not the sharpest tool in the shed neh?
24 Sep 2010, 12:19 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-209: hahaha why should i indulge a cretin like you?
where are your gatgabbas rangerman & charo, the cretin club? hahahaha
24 Sep 2010, 12:24 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-212: you wont be indulging me, my boy, rather pretend it is re-education… However I doubt it is definable as demonstrated by your reticence obfuscated with attempted insults… typical: I’ve seen it all before – it makes me smile that you are so predictable…
24 Sep 2010, 12:26 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-205:
so……”transformation” is not about numbers on the field?
then he goes on to boast that they had a minimum of 7 poc per game?
umfaan, you seem to be the expert on this “transformation” thing in rugby.
explain to us mlungus what is required for a franchise to be “transformed”
24 Sep 2010, 12:38 pm
@charo(charo)-214: eish, the hypocrisy is staring him in the face like a Zulu on the Stoep…
24 Sep 2010, 13:20 pm
215. TRANSFORMATION(TRANSFORMATION)
: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
September 24th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-212: for
every action there’s a similar & equal
reaction, ridicule will be met by ridicule
from me too
@charo(charo)-213: you and heavens game
are just cretins & are close to croaking age,
no need to bother with the meaning of
transformation.
24 Sep 2010, 13:21 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-210: You seem very thicker than other days, gravy train jobs, seems you are looking for one
24 Sep 2010, 13:29 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-215: So tell me then what transformation means
24 Sep 2010, 14:16 pm
@JL1(JL1)-218: i asked you the question this morning already and i am yet to get an answer? Are you admitting to be ill-equipped to articulate what it is?
24 Sep 2010, 14:38 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-218: Very immature, old chap
Now run along and go herd the live stock
24 Sep 2010, 14:47 pm
@JL1(JL1)-220: now you want to talk about maturity hahaha after playing ignorant the whole morning now u think u can claim the moral high ground? How rich
24 Sep 2010, 15:33 pm
Alan Solomons the **** head is back
24 Sep 2010, 15:37 pm
@JL1(JL1)-217:
f.u.c.k transformation
Anyone banking with ABSA need to change banks
24 Sep 2010, 17:30 pm
Grant 10 and who ever, Charo wasnt being racist about the hospitals. We picked some one of the road the other day, took them to Edendale and it was totally revolting and scarey so we took them to Greys and they told us this person (who we had only seen a few times on our dirt track) must go to Raisthorp.
My hub freaked at them, told them to catch a f&*^%* wakeup and clean up a bit and stop drinking tea and help the woman and blahblahblah and we just left.
Cape Town has better govt hospitals than most of South Africa you just dont see it liveing in reasonable safe clean Cape Town.
24 Sep 2010, 17:55 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-224: how are the hospitals related to what alan solomons said in the interview? Charo is f*cking pessimist putting the boot in that’s all, no excuses.
24 Sep 2010, 18:00 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-224: No he was not, you just can’t handle the truth, you cannot face up to it
24 Sep 2010, 18:41 pm
@JL1(JL1)-226: the truth about what sonny boy?
24 Sep 2010, 19:32 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-226: Must I draw little pictures for you?
24 Sep 2010, 21:33 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-223:
my analogy with govt hospitals was meant to question the concept of transformation in rugby franchises (which had become the point of discussion).
i could have used a number of other examples….home affairs, justice department, education department etc etc.
we have been told that ec rugby is “transformed” – what does that mean??
this is my point.
unfortunately guys like g10 react without thinking – everything is amandla etc but they don’t question the true position the country is in.
transie?….well he takes it personally…which he shouldn’t.
i don’t lump him in with the lazy nouveau govt employees who , frankly, don’t seem to give a sh1 t about their jobs
24 Sep 2010, 22:00 pm
@JL1(JL1)-220:
What an arrogant post.
Further still, that last sentence is a sickly prejudiced comment to make and you would probably want us to believe it is not at all insensitive, let alone in the extreme?
You do not know the man’s genuine occupation and value system so you are actually making a pathetic, sickly comment about a group of human beings created, like you, in the image of your god. That’s how much respect you have for your god.
24 Sep 2010, 22:17 pm
@ET(ET)-230: ag shut up you sanctimonious pr at.
what a pain in the *** you must be to be around louis fakaran.
24 Sep 2010, 22:19 pm
@ET(ET)-229: His occupation does not matter, but his insults do, why not refer to his post, oh, I forgot you two share a pie hole
Why have a go at me.What does it matter to you at all?
Go back and suck your wine and butcher people
24 Sep 2010, 22:23 pm
Yes you have been farakanised already that’s why you have forgotten it is, in your culture, actually a r s e and not a s s which is really you, the DONKEY.
You bigots really need to dekaffeinate, what with you all revealing here today on this thread your sick value system. You are all in need of a new human value system.
24 Sep 2010, 22:27 pm
@ET(ET)-233: ag, take your americanised english and shove it.
you are not a south african, you are simply a rodent. your type are ubiqitous unfortunately. if it was up to me you would be spayed.
mpongolo.
24 Sep 2010, 22:30 pm
@JL1(JL1)-232:
How far off the truth you deviate, but that is to be expected from one who thru’ his milk and honey experiences had to, on a daily basis, lie and lie and lie to maintain that favoured, preferential but base culture to maintain your supposed top dog status.
Your mental sickness does unfortunately matter to me for I am involved with mankind even the pathologic ones like you.
As for that last sentence it just shows how BASE you have to become to gain some good feel about your value on this earth.
24 Sep 2010, 22:30 pm
@ET(ET)-233: and you fukwit, you take your skills out of south africa but presume you are better than everyone in or out of south africa.
windgat.
24 Sep 2010, 22:30 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-230:
don’t forget et is the chief mon key in the lab.
this mon key has already had the lobotomy….
the detesticulation process….
the probe up the jack…..
the rest of the mon kees are in awe of et…
he is da man (or was .. before the denutting)
24 Sep 2010, 22:33 pm
@ET(ET)-235: you were fed the silver spoon by apartheid south africa allowing you to trade the skills you were given by the nat govt and now you sit overseas and pontificate about a land that couldnt give a sh it if you never return.
i bet it burns your A S S.
24 Sep 2010, 22:34 pm
233.
Like JL1 your lives has been such a gross lie that you have nothing worthy and truthful to offer but more falsehoods and more lies to screen you from the disgusts of yourselves.
Life must be pretty empty and meaningless for the likes of you.
24 Sep 2010, 22:34 pm
@ET(ET)-232: As I said before, you are a G10 buddy but all day he curses Saffas from running away from SA
I wonder why he is like this?
24 Sep 2010, 22:39 pm
@charo(charo)-237:
shame.
i was a bit unfair when i called the coconut et an mpongolo.
he wouldnt understand the isiZulu word for a DONKEY because he has never made time for an ethnic african language.
how pathetic he is. he probably gains great traction with the yankee pseudo intellectuals he deals with when he talks kuk about sa but when he talks to saffas he sounds pathetically out of touch.
24 Sep 2010, 22:42 pm
@ET(ET)-239: haha, you add fokkol to south africa.
you make most saffa ashamed in fact.
why dont you just stay away for good.
24 Sep 2010, 22:43 pm
@ET(ET)-238: Too much vino, old chap… Or do you take prescription drugs?
24 Sep 2010, 22:43 pm
Sick, base , worthless, crude, uncivilised comments devoid of any truths coming now in triplets from the former supposedly
‘civilised’?
Genuine PACK of WOLVES MENTALITY.
What has happened to your LOGIC, RATIONALITY, TRUTH and those good christain ethics? Traded it all in for gutter attitudes it seems. That’s what happens when the milk turns sour and the honey runs out.
I will leave the BASENESS, CRUDENESS within you to devour you more, among yourselves. I do understand your anger emanating from no longer really being in control of all you had not so long ago.
24 Sep 2010, 22:48 pm
It seems you children have not taken to heart that little nursery school rhyme sticks and stones more especially if it is all lies.
Still all so puerile in the supposed adult to senile men in you.
How you would, to a man, like to be in my so sophisticated, educated and academic scenario but you do NOT have that intellect unfortunately
24 Sep 2010, 22:50 pm
sorry et.
you may think i am being harsh but i am not.
you talk kuk and try to use language to disguise your lack of original thought but it is apparent that you have an axe to grind based on your unfortunate experiences under apartheid whilst gaining the education you are so proud of today.
me? i think you are as worthwhile is a discussion as tits on a goose.
you are a relic of an era that will soon only bean entry in a textbook but that era defines you, owns your thoughts and decides your every reaction.
so i am not being harsh, i simply find you pathtic, like a stray dog.
24 Sep 2010, 22:50 pm
@ET(ET)-238:
your pseudo-intellectual attempt at “upper-class” english is so friggen blatent it is cringeworthy.
do yourself a favour and revert to your “flats” or “ebayi” version……it would be so much easier for us to follow.
24 Sep 2010, 22:51 pm
Oh for farks sake, lighten up….its Friday.
You lot have had a public holiday today too!!
Perhaps that is the problem!!
Braai Day…..Hehehhheeh Sorry Heritage Day!!
24 Sep 2010, 22:53 pm
@charo(charo)-246: What Ho Charo, Tally Ho and all that!!
Top Hole old boy…..
24 Sep 2010, 22:57 pm
@ET(ET)-245:
seriously man, do you consider yourself fluent in the english language?
because i do not.
24 Sep 2010, 22:59 pm
@JL1(JL1)-243:
Not a drop of wine yet but I will have some come supper time.
And to correct you further, I generally do the prescribing and not the taking of presciptions and whether you want to believe it or not I do not take a single medication because my health is superb. My wife struggles to get me even to take an 80mg. aspirin. That all comes from excellent genes and beneficial execise like swimming a mile a day whenever possible.
But I do know your post is a meek and mild face-saving but worthless effort.
24 Sep 2010, 23:01 pm
@carol(carol)-248:
hi cotswolds lady 8)
good evening had by all?
24 Sep 2010, 23:03 pm
ok, i am off.
et
stay well but ffs, open your mind.
tjorts.
24 Sep 2010, 23:11 pm
@charo(charo)-251: A funny old way to pass an evening….
Blogging here is not for the faint hearted!!
24 Sep 2010, 23:14 pm
How confused and contradictory the fool/s is/are.
I am lambasted for supposedly taking ” my skills” out of the country and using “upper-class english” but later questioned about the fluency ” in the english language?
Good grief make up your ****** minds morons.
If you want to insult then just insult and do that adequately without giving any positives.
I know I have given an outlet for this hidden, diseased,latent venom as I have afterall exposed the bigotry that you thought you were so successfully hiding for such a long time.
Anyhow while hatred consumes and devours what little respect you think you still have I will leave you to grapple in the guters of the maudlin sentimentalists you are.
I know you think the good days are gone forever.
24 Sep 2010, 23:21 pm
@carol(carol)-253:
yes, odd bunch we are… 8)
have just been passing the time waiting for the golf to start.
on now, so i bid thee farewell fair maiden.
last bit of advice…
avoid et…
the guy will bore you to death.
cheers
24 Sep 2010, 23:30 pm
@charo(charo)-255: Enjoy the golf, don’t worry about ET, he finds me trivial, we did have had some nice chats once!!!
Things change!
24 Sep 2010, 23:45 pm
@ET(ET)-250: You are full of it, pathetic, your holier than thou attitude
25 Sep 2010, 00:04 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-205:
The more the transformation, the more the ship falls apart. Transformation is nothing more than racism. When the pot is empty what then hey trannie? Go begging elsewhere?
25 Sep 2010, 00:42 am
@whatever(whatever)-259: as if ships have never sink before the advent of transformation. As if mediocrity is the sole preserve of all things transformed.
The saru ceo-designate tackled the subject of transformation in his first few media briefings and hit out at the verkrampte, but yet the dogs are still yapping
because their aim is not to truly understand but to ridicule. Lives ruled by fear – in this case a fear of loss of undeserved privilege – fuel all these attempts a ridicule.
How many times has Maties won the varsity cup? Has their ship fallen? Jurie Roux says they’re a transformed set up, is he lying?
25 Sep 2010, 00:44 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-260: *sunk*
25 Sep 2010, 02:34 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-259:
Don’t care……..transformation is choosing one above another based on colour……thats racism. Too many people buy into that BS. Two wrongs don’t make a right!!
25 Sep 2010, 07:02 am
@whatever(whatever)-262: you ‘don’t care’? Then you can cry until kingdom come then!
“People always harp on about transformation,” Roux said, adding:
“When
they come to transformation they get
[stuck
on] to one thing and that is the number of
players other than the colour of white that
is on the field.
“That is not the only thing. You need to
transform people’s minds.
“That is probably one of the best things we
have done at Stellenbosch and that is to
transform people ’s minds.”
Roux, in his guise as a Stellenbosch rugby
administrator and the Varsity Cup Board
Chairman, used the Maties ’ victorious
Varsity Cup team as an example of“true
transformation”.
“At Stellenbosch there is no such thing as a
quota or anything like that. In the Varsity
Cup competition we never fielded anything
less that seven non-white players in the
matchday 22.
“In fact, we played eight non-white
players
in the [2010] Final – each and every player
was on the field on merit. Somewhere we
are doing something right in terms of that
[transformation].”
25 Sep 2010, 12:09 pm
@whatever(whatever)-261: Thats the point, whatever. Its not. That’s what Transie is getting at. Find here an article by Prof. Pierre de Vos on what transformation is, I agree largely with him. It is written from a judicial perspective but you get the idea:
What do we talk about when we talk about “transformation”?
Jul 27th, 2009 by Pierre De Vos.
Humans – despite our intellect and capacity for feeling and abstract thought – have a tendency to talk and think in slogans. Life is complex and time is of the essence, so only the most vigorous (and tiresome) intellectuals (no, I am not thinking of Xolela Mangcu) always make an effort to interrogate the terminology they deploy every day when they try to make themselves understood. This is not always such a bad thing because often most of us have a common understanding of what these slogans mean and use them to make our lives easier.
But sometimes the same slogan can mean wildly different things to different people, which allows people to think that they really agree with one another when in reality they are worlds apart. Slogans which attempt to encapsulate a laudable goal but ultimately have a fuzzy meaning can also be used by unscrupulous people to achieve nefarious ends. One such a slogan – much in the news lately – is “transformation”.
Most of us constitutionalists, for example, think that “transformation” is a good thing. Like motherhood and apple pie, only fringe elements will dare to suggest that transformation in and of itself is problematic. Although the term is not used in the Constitution, academics and judges of our Constitutional Court have often stated that ours is a transformative Constitution and have emphasised the ethical and political necessity of such transformation. But, as it turns out, we do not share a common understanding of what this term might mean.
Justice Malala’s column this morning in The Times in which he deals with the talk of “transformation” of the judiciary and the new appointments to the Judicial Services Commission (JSC) gets to the heart of the matter:
Both the JSC and the judiciary are likely to be filled with some of the most conservative, gender-insensitive, undemocratic and intolerant individuals in society — essentially people not cut from the cloth of the ANC’s own fabric. That reality will derive from the fallacy that because someone is black, and ticks the space in the “transformation” box, then they hold progressive views.
The truth is that not all black advocates are fit to be judges. There are blacks all over the country and in the judiciary who do not embrace the non-racial, non-sexist, democratic values enshrined in the Constitution. There are potential judges who would very easily turn against our progressive laws on abortion and homophobia, for example. Being black does not mean an advocate or judge upholds the values enshrined in our Constitution.
Blacks are not a special people. We laugh and we cry, we oppress and are oppressed. We are human. Among us blacks there are some of the most conservative people and perspectives one can find. Not all black people are progressive….. There was a chilling moment last week when Senior Counsel Torquil Paterson appeared before the JSC in Cape Town. Ntsebeza, according to the Sapa report, asked Paterson how his (Paterson’s) potential appointment as a judge on the Eastern Cape bench could possibly further transformation, because he was white.
“Ntsebeza insisted, until the advocate conceded, that ‘the demographics would not be enhanced by appointing more white judges’. “‘That’s all I wanted you to say,’ said Ntsebeza.”
Now, I don’t know who Paterson is. However, if Paterson is excluded only on the basis that he will not “enhance the demographics”, then there is a problem here. Worse, if a black candidate is appointed merely because he or she enhances the demographics, then we are truly in trouble.
This is the danger. We fail to ask ourselves what “transformation” truly means, and make black faces the only measure of how far we have transformed.
I could not agree more. We need to ask ourselves, what do we talk about when we talk about transformation? As this is a question now hotly contested in the legal field, I will focus on “transformation” in the legal arena. There seems to be at least three (but probably many more) different answers to this question.
First, there is the view espoused by individuals like Dumisa Ntsebeza, which seems to view “transformation” as a demand for the transfer of political, legal and economic power from one racial elite to another, a view based on a kind of race essentialism. This group of individuals bristles at the injustice and indignity of a legal profession and system that is still largely dominated by white individuals and the supposedly superior values of the white minority culture.
Noting – correctly – the economic and cultural marginalisation of black lawyers and the kind of snooty arrogance of some white lawyers, and believing that one’s race determines who one is, what one thinks and how one will act, this group sees “transformation” purely as a “numbers game”. Black lawyers must replace white lawyers in leadership positions at all levels of the profession and in the judiciary to effect “transformation”. For this group “transformation” is really about a transfer of power from a white elite to a black elite within the existing system, so the better for the black elite to share in the spoils that rich whites now selfishly try to keep for themselves.
A second (to my mind, better) view, espoused by Malala and many constitutionalists, is that “transformation” is really about the achievement of a society that embraces the progressive values enshrined in our Constitution. While racial and gender representation in the legal profession and the judiciary is important, the most important goal of transformation is to create a system which respects diversity and the human dignity of all – regardless of their race, ***, gender or sexual orientation.
Race is just a construct and does not tell us with certainty who a person is, what he or she will think, or how he or she will act. Unlike the first group, this second group casts a critical eye on the social relations entrenched in our society and see patriarchy, sexism, homophobia and a lack of respect for difference and feels that “transformation” must fundamentally address the deeply oppressive traditional value system (ironically shared by many white and black patriarchal elites) and must help move us into the light of a modern, progressive state.
But there is also a third view, I think, which attempts to marry aspects of the two previously discussed views of “transformation”. On the one hand this view rejects the race essentialism and the naked and self-serving power politics of the “race transformationists”, while acknowledging that “transformation” is also about economic power and the structural inequality built into our free market, elite-dominated, system of government. Race does not tell us everything about who a person is, what he or she might think or how he or she will act, but how and where one fits into the system will tell one much about the life chances of that person. And, of course, given our history most of the people at the bottom are poor and black.
According to this view, the system as a whole needs to be transformed. While this requires a jettisoning of the patriarchal, sexist and homophobic values so deeply entrenched in our society, it also requires a fundamental change in the way we are governed and our society is structured. The system that rewards (black and white) insiders in government and in private business (where CEO’s and senior managers block pay raises for their workers while raking in obscene salaries and bonuses) help to create and keep in check an underclass and fundamentally retards the life chances of those who are not lucky enough to have been born in privilege or to have acquired the trappings of wealth through political connections and old-boys networks.
In this system, many South Africans – no matter how talented, intelligent or even wise – will never get the opportunity to study law, let alone open a practice at the bar and get appointed to the High Court.
“Transformation”, for this group, will only be meaningful if it addresses the fundamental unfairness of the system which irrevocably and tragically precludes a poor, black, rural girl-child (to use one example) from accessing the same life chances as the children of Tokyo Sexwale, Zwelenzima Vavi, one of the Oppenheimer clan or Judge President John Hlophe. Whether the law, the Constitution and the judiciary (regardless of its racial or gender composition) is a stumbling block to this third kind of “transformation” – well – I am still making up my mind about that.
What do YOU talk about when you talk about “transformation”.
25 Sep 2010, 12:54 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-263:
good post and quite thought provoking.
the concept is still unclear in my mind though.
one thing is clear – i will criticise the current regime for poor governance just as vigorously as i criticised the previous regime
25 Sep 2010, 14:41 pm
@charo(charo)-265: you are well within your rights to criticise the current government, in fact we need more people being critical of the incompetence anywhere in our society!
But unfairly equating transformation to the government’s incompetence and attempting to solely identify it by that incompetence is mischiveous and highly ignorant! Just because you fail to grasp what transformation is doesn’t give you the right to disparage it willy-nilly.
25 Sep 2010, 14:43 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-264: top post, quite enjoyed it.
25 Sep 2010, 17:30 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-264:
A very enlightening and highly revealing article which will not be accepted by the most of the former franchised(read favoured) lot and those of them who do accept it will do so with varying degrees of reservation, all of this because the one thing they truly worship i.e. the faces on the money bills, is severely threatened to the extent that, especially those ‘middle-classers’ feel they have or are losing control of that(and that in itself shows their collective stupidity).
Also negative to this former favoured lot is the fact that this enlightened ‘Afrikaner’ intellectual placates those who are dishonest among them as being “unscrupulous” and having “nefarious” intentions and attitudes and that to them is too DAMNING and increases the already unacceptable pain of GUILT 10 fold.
They will NOT accept the positive ideas(and there are many) of the article.
In reality this says(amongst other things)that for the small high point of the triangle to be drawn closer to the wide-based low point it will have to be done at the loss of that small high point. This spells out FEAR to these delinquents hence the baseness and depravity and sreams of their shouts when they argue in their non-South African manner.
25 Sep 2010, 17:46 pm
@-265</
" the concept is still unclear in my mind though "
You say what we all, who are forward thinking, know already and that is that you lack the cortical capacity to grapple with social ideas honestly because of inherent selfishness which fuels your fears of the controls you have lost.
Stay in "darkest" Africa at your own peril but you long for the better standards of S.Africa however much you decry that and the changes being forged for equality.
Also " ….criticise the previous regime"?
What a sick joke. What even MILD protests did you engage in prior to 1994? I bet you did not even whisper "Amandla" in your toilet let alone your bathroom? How many bouts of 90 or 180 days of detentions did you have to endure while your like the other up to 87% voted in those racist Nats. and ALL other choices whilst lapping up as much milk and honey in the process of so doing.
Don't bother to reply because it is likely just to be more of the same. LIES, LIES, LIES.
Rot on in "darkest" Africa you dishonest imbecile.
25 Sep 2010, 21:45 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-253:
What a paranoid phony you are. But again the wisdom in me dictates to my better understanding of pathetics like you that all this blubber and bluster of the 3 blind rats stems from fear of the unknown and fear of loss of erstwhile total control and fear of FEAR itself.
For your sanity you should really go back to your homeland, Scotland, unfortuunately for them.
25 Sep 2010, 21:55 pm
Enter the “no one is worthy because I am so educated and full of myself” twat
25 Sep 2010, 22:08 pm
@JL1(JL1)-258:
I can, and have earned the right to, accept a “holier than thou attitude ” and would that that is not a bad thing to be accused off. It is far better than to exhibit a total lack of sensitivity, an attitude of a prejudiced oaf or the bigotry of a hypocrite as you do.
You clearly lack the wisdom to do anything else but to show your naked racist attitudes to people who for 342 years were denied the simplest basic opportunities of life that you were not denied even when you left the shores of your homeland.
25 Sep 2010, 22:13 pm
@ET(ET)-271: Did I speak or refer to you?
Back into your butchers hole, I say
25 Sep 2010, 22:16 pm
@JL1(JL1)-271:
Certainly, relative to you and your other blind bigoted-but- revealed-and-exposed-for-all-the-world-to-see rats.
25 Sep 2010, 22:20 pm
@JL1(JL1)-273:
Crudeness and rank bad depravity due to a lack of ideas and total lack of comprehension and thus rationality.
Do you even realise that your original comment I referred to stupidly says that all people who are not white are only good for herd boys? Just accept your STUPIDITY.
25 Sep 2010, 22:20 pm
@ET(ET)-273: Your OCD seem to be getter the better of yourself, grab another bottle if vino, Dr Alco
25 Sep 2010, 22:26 pm
@JL1(JL1)-273:
Do you know and accept that your anger and haterd really stems directly from your wanting to truly be back in sunny South Africa as you realise that you cannot cope with the big world out there?
My advice to you see a psychologist or simpler still go back to a changed S. Africa and just accept that it has forever changed and you can do absolutely nothing meaningful about it.
Oh and stop drinking as it does not remove the problem that exists for you.
25 Sep 2010, 22:29 pm
@JL1(JL1)-276:
You will never even truly comprehend the simple word of moderation and how I can monotonously apply it to life.
This is so one-sided to the extent of creating great boredom. It is no different than taking candy from a baby.
Bye now depraved one.
25 Sep 2010, 22:48 pm
@JL1(JL1)-271:
Yes I know and understand that is how you feel(not being worthy) when even in your pack of wolves gangs and mentality you still cannot get the better of me to shut me up.
More importantly though do you understand why that happens?
Simply it is easy for me and very difficult for the pack because I base my responses on the TRUTH whereas the pack has for historical reasons beenforced to resort to distortions, half-truths and toal outright lies in their attempts to discredited anything and anyone bent on the truth.
25 Sep 2010, 22:51 pm
@ET(ET)-276: You are a fake, a pathetic imbecile telling me to go to SA
Your type should not be trusted
Sitting in the USA telling all and sundry what to do, why don’t you go back
25 Sep 2010, 23:06 pm
All that Prof. Pierre De Vos is really saying(for the benefit of Cab) is that when you speak of equality in a society where a small % of people have been grossly favoured for 342 years and a bigger % have been denied those favours in that time you have to take away from the favoured and give that to the non-favoured to bring the 2 groups closer together(that is what AA simply is). Simple arithmetic really.
Only when that process is totally complete can we truly speak of equality for all. The same process really applies to the concept of merit selection also.
But ironically Blacks are not even asking for that hard-to- accept(by the formerly favoured) demand. All they(Blacks) are saying is accept that there is a need for the prerviously favoured and the previously non-favoured to move closer together on the graph of life and show some effort to that end.
More importantly stop squealing like ruptured pigs when you are treated like pariahs after you clearly indicate by word and DEED that you are not willing to accept that demand for a movement towards equality and merit.
25 Sep 2010, 23:07 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
From a discredited and depraved poster. How RICH?
25 Sep 2010, 23:08 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
Purely for your sanity.
25 Sep 2010, 23:08 pm
@ET(ET)-283:
I am going back soon.
25 Sep 2010, 23:14 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
Just accept that your original comment to Transie was in bad taste, thus insensitive to millions of innocent, humble people.
That’s not your leg or arm or even left testicle asked for.
25 Sep 2010, 23:17 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
Has your alcohol got total control of your faculties now to the point you do not know right from wrong?
25 Sep 2010, 23:52 pm
@ET(ET)-285:
sorry to say but you are nothing but a boring, nothing individual
26 Sep 2010, 00:07 am
i was reminded of what transormation means again today.
played golf at the premier club in ghana this afternoon.
the same place that top government and business individuals choose to be members of.
the mens toilets had no lights and didn’t flush.
and stunk to high heaven.
and this was acceptable???????
only in africa… as they say
26 Sep 2010, 00:09 am
@charo(charo)-287:
what a racist post you illiterate umlungu!!
27 Sep 2010, 14:58 pm
-287: -289:
If this below:
[ 285. ET(ET) :
September 25th, 2010 at 11:14 pm
@JL1(JL1)-280:
Just accept that your original comment to Transie was in bad taste, thus insensitive to millions of innocent, humble people.
That’s not your leg or arm or even left testicle asked for. ]
CLOSE QUOTE
is a racist post, then you have not only lost your faculties but I doubt you ever had any meaningful facuties at ALL stupid.
Where again have you been forced to eek out a living again now that the milk has turned SOUR and the honey turned BITTER?
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