Balance key in back row composition
3 Nov 2010
RYAN VREDE writes that Pierre Spies and Juan Smith’s selection in the loose trio necessitates the inclusion of Deon Stegmann.
Spies, consistently good in the Super 14, failed to replicate that form at Test level in 2010. However, coach Peter de Villiers remained unfailingly loyal to him and is fully expected to name him as his starting No 8 for their tour opening Test against Ireland on Saturday.
Spies, in five Tests in the northern hemisphere, has never recovered from his first – a nightmare display against Ireland in 2006. The Heathrow international arrivals hall seems to sap his power, rendering him a relative passenger. That he arrived this time with a fractured confidence after an indifferent Test season doesn’t aid his cause.
Spies is at his most potent when part of the game plan is geared towards engineering attacking opportunities in space for him. Admittedly, part of his failings can be attributed to the team’s inability to do this consistently. But Spies must (and would have given the high standard he expects of himself) take the bulk of the responsibility for his relative attacking impotency.
Equally he needs to assert himself more defensively. It continues to a personal point of frustration that none of his coaches have adequately taught him good tackle technique because a player with his upper body strength has the potential to be deployed as a defensive weapon, dominating tackle situations and whereby creating opportunities for turnovers. At present he is no more an a bulky obstruction.
Smith’s value cannot be overstated and was in full evidence upon his return to the Springboks’ back row for the home leg of the Tri-Nations. He is a banker at the gain line and defends with brutality that makes you cringe. His performance in those facets of play will be decisive to how the Springboks fare on tour.
However, balance is key in the back row, and with Spies and Smith tasked with making metres and blunting Ireland at the collisions (as well as the secondary roles as lineout jumpers), it is essential that the Springboks start with a specialist openside flank. Stegmann has the qualities that complement the aforementioned duo.
Certainly there is the legitimate concern that Stegmann is not match fit, having missed the bulk of the Currie Cup through injury. However, injuries and the perplexing omission of Francois Louw (he would have been my pick to start at No 6) means Stegmann is the only choice.
It would be a grave tactical error to deploy any of the other options – Ryan Kankowski, Keegan Daniel or Willem Alberts – there. While all three are undoubtedly gifted, none are as skilled at slowing the recycle or stealing the ball as Stegmann is. A player of this ilk has been at the heart of most defensively sound sides, allowing the line to set by ensuring that the ball emerges from the ruck slowly. In addition, teams often profit from turnovers created by these men.
Stegmann won’t offer the Springboks an additional potential metre maker with ball in hand, but they have an enough of those for him not to be a liability in this regard. Neither is he going to reverse anyone in contact, but again, there are those equipped to do so.
He has allowed Spies to play a looser role at the Bulls, South Africa’s most successful franchise, who’ve consistently deployed a specialist openside flank in the last four years (Wikus van Heerden preceded Stegmann in the role). He would now provide the same opportunities for him with the Springboks, and given that the forecast is for clear skies over the revamped Lansdowne Road, Spies could be a factor.
Balance is essential when constructing the back row, and it is an area where the Springboks’ coaching staff have consistently failed this season, following the premature axing of Louw. They cannot make that mistake again. Stegmann’s time is now.
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*Check out my lighthearted take on the Springbok squad selection and their chances against Ireland on the Telegraph’s (UK) blog – http://my.telegraph.co.uk/rugby/ryanvrede/478/peter-de-villiers-must-pick-patrick-lambie-as-springboks-full-back-but-he-wont/
291 Comments
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3 Nov 2010, 11:35 am
@Tegejo(Tegejo) : “Please explain to me why Spies looks phenomenal in the S14, playing with Steggies and Potties, but looks so ordinary in a Bok jersey playing with Schalk and Flo. against the same opposition.”
You can take “Spies” name in your statement and insert ” Wynand Olivier”, there you are, got your answer?
3 Nov 2010, 11:35 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis) : 47 I think you have it right there.
3 Nov 2010, 11:35 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : By the way, which all-round world class 8 are you referring to?
3 Nov 2010, 11:35 am
The only deficiency in Spies’s game that concerns me is his technique in the tackle. I agree he uses his arms rather than putting his shoulder into the hit. He will wrap a guy up and leg drive him back, but he will never smash a guy back with his shoulder.
This leads to the attacking player sometimes being able to shift his point of contact off-centre, allowing him to run through the outstretched arm of Spies. This is one area he seriously needs to work on.
As for his ball carrying ability – he is as powerful as Alberts, but with much more pace.
He hasn’t set the world alight this year, but the criticism has been over the top. He hasn’t been that bad.
I don’t understand the hype about Vermeulen. He is a carthorse, and is at best a hard worker who loves making contact, without necessarily making massive amounts of ground.
He won’t let the Boks down, but he won’t be anything special either. Picking him would be more to reward him for his consistent play at provincial level than identifying a potential international star of the future.
He would have less impact than Spies, and in fact, would rob us of Spies’s other attributes, primarily his pace, mobility and cover defensive speed.
3 Nov 2010, 11:36 am
@Tegejo(Tegejo) :
And that is where we differ.
I would rather prefer a player with complete or all round skills suited to his position, being strong in all aspects, than a player that is only strong in one aspect of a position.
3 Nov 2010, 11:37 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid) : What does Meisikind have to do with a discussion around picking the correct loose forward combo?
3 Nov 2010, 11:37 am
They will not **** around in Sat…they need to set the tone of the tour.
I will be surprized if Steggies gets the no.6 jersey. He might not even feature in the 22 at all.
BTW, it’s the anticipation of the roaming openside that makes him so effective. You can’t do anything if you can’t get inot position. Flou is good at pilfering, so is Bismarck, but neither can apply constant pressure like Brussow/Steggies, and slowing ht ball down, I think spectators dont appreciate their ability to test the refs…dont let their innocent looking faces fool you. (unless your name in Craig Joubert…then by all means,please.)
3 Nov 2010, 11:40 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : Lets agree to disagree. Holding thumbs that PDV has something up his sleeve, and that we give the lepricorn-sh@gging Irish a good lesson in Southern hemisphere rugby!
3 Nov 2010, 11:40 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis) : LOL did you see that classic “who me, ref? ” look that FLO gave last Saturday. Could have come right from the Fitzpatrick playbook. Butter wouldn’t have melted in his mouth.
3 Nov 2010, 11:40 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid) :
the FNG?
3 Nov 2010, 11:41 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21) : You might have to watch the game again.
WP’s ineffective attack was easily repelled by a solid sharks team defensive effort. Scrums were easily managed by the sharks. WP also had some issues at the lineout, and when they did manage to form their rolling maul, this was also countered.
The 2 incidents you mentioned are memorable, but the effective non-flashy, grafting performance of the Sharks is what should be lauded. A true team performance.
Do you remember any outstanding play by either Kanko or Daniels on saturday? I didn’t, but they were damn effective when involved in the play.
3 Nov 2010, 11:41 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus) : 54
Are you Hebrew?
They don’t have any punctuation to define exclaimation…so they just repeat something for emphasis……
3 Nov 2010, 11:42 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus) : not a bull but impressed by the balance of the stegmann, potties, spies trio. would thus put in smith @7 and alberts together with daniel on bench for an all out forward onslaught.
3 Nov 2010, 11:42 am
6 Stegman-stay disciplined my boy!
7 Smith
8 Spies
18 Alberts – covering Bakkies and Smith
19 Kankowski – covering 8
Simple.
3 Nov 2010, 11:42 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis) :
No, I just refuse to have any post of mine languish in position 50 at the bottom of a page that no one will read.
3 Nov 2010, 11:43 am
@Tegejo(Tegejo) : Sergio Parisse, Joe Van Niekerk is the closest guy in terms of 8thmen skills.
3 Nov 2010, 11:43 am
@Proud to be a Lion(Proud to be a Lion) :
Agreed.
3 Nov 2010, 11:44 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus) : Spies’s deficiencies have been well known since the first time he was picked and it has always been said that not to worry…..he will grow into the no8 position to become a real world class no8. Well I think he had enough time to ‘grow’. It aint gonna happen. And to have cover defensive speed but not making the tackles helps as much as my arse itching and i scratch my head. The bokke can’t afford to carry a pasenger at no8 anymore. But we all know snorre will always pick him. Sooooo…….
3 Nov 2010, 11:44 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy) :
shame, I got the feeling he wanted to backchat…and then he remembered that there has been talk of his attitude onfield….But it doesn’t matter if you look as insidious as a nazgul if you are so blatant in infringement
3 Nov 2010, 11:46 am
@Tegejo(Tegejo) : Was answering your question on why Spies is an average player at test level, its the same thing that happens to WO, his skills set is simply not good enough at test level. The only time Spies remotely looked the part at test level was in 2006 when he was on juice.
3 Nov 2010, 11:46 am
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed) :
Thanks for your contribution. We’ll be sure to consider it.
3 Nov 2010, 11:46 am
@John Galt(John Galt) : +1
3 Nov 2010, 11:47 am
@pompies2(pompies2) :
I strongly disagree.
Remember that the key regarding fetching is not to pinch ball, but to slow down the opposing ruck ball. The best fetchers out there hardly pinch 4 balls in a game.
Defensive teams who excel at deck play organise fetchers at specific nodes on the park given the particular phase. It helps if you have two deck players (like a hooker and an opensider) because obviously a single fetcher cannot be at every single ruck.
Of course, this is much easier to do in earlier phases – in fact, if you haven’t managed to slow down opposition ball effectively in the first 3 phases, you are in for a tough time. We can discuss this analytically if you want.
Counterrucking is not only energy inefficient if done repeatedly, but it cannot solely be a method of disrupting the breakdown. You need to mix and match it up.
Think about it this way. If you don’t play fetchers, you are effectively forced to stay up in the tackle a bit more to allow inefficient deck players to arrive at the ruck, which creates opportunities for offloads for supporting runners for your enemy. This is one of the things the ABs did so effectively against us. Of course, their ruck play was not threatened because we did not play a deck player, so they had the best of both worlds.
So yes, you are right that decisionmaking in a tackle situation is key, but you are really complicating matters for yourself if you don’t employ a hybrid approach to cover all possible scenarios.
3 Nov 2010, 11:48 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid) : None of which are available this weekend for the Boks, genius!
3 Nov 2010, 11:48 am
stegmann&brussow>>>>louw ito speed to the ball, workrate, effectiveness, tackle count, turnovers and overall complementary value in balancing a loose trio.
3 Nov 2010, 11:48 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus) : All the Spies qualities oyu mentioned has been seen at various times in various games. Have they ever come together in a a single game?
For me, Spies is not a channel 1 or channel 2 defender. He just lacks the technique to be a front-on defender. SO if you not the defender, you have to be the 1st arriving player to either slow down, or steal the ball. I don’t think he does this either.
Vermeulen might not bee the answer, but I’m yet to be convinced that Spies is based on his international performances. Thus far,I onky remember the England game where he ran them to shreds.
3 Nov 2010, 11:49 am
@Tegejo(Tegejo) :
Sweet, here is to hoping against hope we can pull it off on Saturday
3 Nov 2010, 11:49 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid) : Eish…. I’m not going to bother……
3 Nov 2010, 11:49 am
@willievz(willievz) : Good analysis.
3 Nov 2010, 11:49 am
@pompies2(pompies2) : England B!!
3 Nov 2010, 11:50 am
@John Galt(John Galt) : would put in daniel ahead of kankowski though, he adds true value from the bench, can cover 6&8, impact player & good link to turn things on in the last quarter
3 Nov 2010, 11:52 am
Divs going to keep as many combinations as possible the same.
Do you really think he’s going to switch players around a few days before we play Ireland on the opening of their new stadium?
Wont happen and correctly so.
The core of this side will without doubt be:
Jannie, Bissie and Beast
Matfield and Botha
Smith, Spies, Hougaard and M Steyn
3 Nov 2010, 11:52 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid) : talking about ‘juice’
FS flyhalf fails dope test
Hendrik Cronjé
Bloemfontein – One of South Africa’s most
promising young rugby players has been
banned for three months for the use of a
banned stimulant.
Grey College star flyhalf, Johan Goosen, was
named Craven Week Player of the Year at
the SA Rugby Awards banquet in Midrand
on Monday night.
However, earlier on Monday, Goosen
appeared before a SARU judiciary
committee and was found guilty.
Sport24 believes Goosen, this year’s Free
State Craven Week No 10, took the
stimulant unknowingly. He was tested after
a Cheetahs Under-19 match against the
Griffons.
The stimulant was initially on the list of
banned substances, before being removed,
only to be added back at a later date.
Due to this, Goosen was only banned for
three months – from November 1, 2010 to
January 31, 2011.
Goosen was not in Midrand to receive his
Player of the Year award.
3 Nov 2010, 11:55 am
@pompies2(pompies2) :
frint-on defender? hehehe so I guess he needs to scamper out of the way next time they come his way first. this is silly. Spies has demostrated that he tackles effectively when he “needs” to..as the last line of defence, he is very safe, I just think he scales and paces himself to save up for a run. Pacing is good. dont judge him too harshly. His cover work is absolutely brilliant.
3 Nov 2010, 11:57 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis) : Haha….that was so tongue in the cheek
3 Nov 2010, 11:58 am
@willievz(willievz) : I can understand why you’d disagree, but my take on it is in relation to the Boks situation.
From earlier discussions, I think we both agree on the importance momentum plays, whether attacking or defending. What I’m saying is, that an effective tackle should ideally be where the defending player manages to stay on his feet, while the attacker is tackled to the ground. I know it’s difficult, but it is a skill that can be developed. What happens after this is that the defender then immediately becomes the counter-rucker and because the attacking players have hade to change thier supporting lines to join ‘through’ the gate, thier momentum has been disrupted. This is where the next supporting defensive player has an impact on the ruck.
I also agree that this becomes more difficult as phases go on, but defensively smart players in this regard might minimize the effect. I also seem to remember us saying that the number of phases also does not give an indication of the success of the attacking side.
3 Nov 2010, 12:01 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis) : To each his own then. I challenge you to give an example, just in this year where he has really put the shoulder in or managed to steal a ball. I know they are different, but Reid, is an example of an effective defensive 8. It helps that he has played @6 in NZ before.
3 Nov 2010, 12:02 pm
On the question on why the Sharks outsmarted WP at the breakdown.
Here is my take.
WP made very poor decisions on attack regarding channels. They took the ball wide on early phases, which is not wrong per se, but they ran diagonal lines and attacked the stronger shoulders of defenders in the tackles out wide. This effectively means that the Sharks player entering the ruck had an advantage over the WP player entering the ruck.
If you play against a side with no recongised fetcher, you should run a lot straighter than what WP did over the weekend, sucking in defenders at close quarters and making greater use of channel 1.
Go and look at where the turnovers took place. In wide channels, often close to the touchline.
3 Nov 2010, 12:03 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis) : tackles effectively when he “needs” to
surely that’s not right. should every tackle not be made with the intention of being effective?
3 Nov 2010, 12:03 pm
In terms of all-round skills, in Spies the Boks have probably the most one-dimensional and predictable nr 8 of all major test playing countries.
He’s probably only better than Scotland’s 8, whoever he may be
3 Nov 2010, 12:04 pm
@pompies2(pompies2) :
?the tackler immediately becomes the counter-rucker?
Uh, no.
3 Nov 2010, 12:05 pm
@pompies2(pompies2) : “What I’m saying is, that an effective tackle should ideally be where the defending player manages to stay on his feet, while the attacker is tackled to the ground.”
It is not quite as simple Pompies.
It depends on the situation.
Sometimes it is better to stay upright in the tackle, for instance if you have no immediate support or if you are defending in a wide channel with the opposition having quick ruck ball.
If you go to ground every time, and you don’t have support on your shoulder, you will get killed by the very breakdown method you are suggesting – counterrucking.
This will happen almost every time if you play a stronger but slower tight five that will get to wider defensive channels at a later stage than their opponents.
3 Nov 2010, 12:07 pm
@willievz(willievz) : I think De Waal has alot to do with this. I don’t think province were planning to play the ball back on the angle. That would’ve been silly. What they might have been hoping for is to strike with de jongh @ terblanche, but because the sharks used the drift defence well, it meant Strauss was defending that channel. Plans obviously changed when de jongh went off, but this was wholly ineffective.
I was expecting Coetzee to make the change early in the 2nd half and pull De Waal, but this didn’t happen.
3 Nov 2010, 12:08 pm
@pompies2(pompies2) :
Yeah, I didn’t say it was “right”. It juts seems to me as though he gauges the situation at hand on the fly and adjusts his effect accordingly. Yeah, I also used to think that I was a defensive genius, just go straight for the guy with the ball…how difficult can it be?
Yeah, not so.
But re Spies, he hasn’t even missed about half as many tackles as Burger this season in the 3N for example, eventhough he attempted less. Why is that? I though old Burger was a rock? Doesn’t Burger give it his all? Every time? You see blind aggression doesn’t always help.
3 Nov 2010, 12:09 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis) : Why not? If you on the ground, you out of the game.
3 Nov 2010, 12:15 pm
@willievz(willievz) : I did acknowledge that it wasn’t easy, nor would it happen at every tackle situation. Everythin on the field happens as a result of the opposition’s actions.
I primary focus for this is the momentum building plays, and primary phase ball going to the wings doesn’t happend often, and if your scenario does occur, you’d need a pacy openside.
3 Nov 2010, 12:15 pm
@willievz(willievz) : 92
hehehe, you guys make it sound like you have a choice. Getting thumped gives you no choice whatsoever, except to go into bail-out mode and wriggle yourself into position to place the ball far as possible away from the opposition.
Everyone gets trained to stay on their feet long enough to get the offload away or ig they are slightly isolated, the opendside helps here in that he’ll hang off and wait for less support to be committed before committing huimself, or being in proximity to provide emergence support. Technique at the b/d isn’t just ramming into it like a bison, you have a spilt second to identify the quickest way of destabilizing the support, whether you hit his wrists, or gooi him with a half nelson.
3 Nov 2010, 12:16 pm
@pompies2(pompies2) : 95
say what? you’ll only roll away and join the ruck half the time…what do you mean?
3 Nov 2010, 12:25 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis) : I’m asking if your work is done once you’ve made the tackle. Is just making the tackle enough?
3 Nov 2010, 12:29 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis) :
It is all about dominating the last meter before contact, meaning you need to mentally anticipate action and then implement physical reaction.
But fair enough, sometimes you don’t have a choice.
However, you should also remember that players learn how to go to ground with the ball and how to protect and place the ball effectively.
Although, in this country, I sometimes wonder if they learn it.
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