Twickers result is irrelevant
24 Nov 2010
JON CARDINELLI writes that backing experimental selections at Twickenham would have been better than sending the first-stringers out to avenge wounded pride.
The Boks broke a 10-year losing streak in Dublin, a victory that was important in the World Cup context. They picked up more psychological points in Cardiff the very next week. It wasn’t pretty, but the Bok had struck two big blows before a defining 2011 season.
Then Scotland brought them to earth. Many people lamented the end of a Grand Slam opportunity when in the greater scheme of things, the Grand Slam should never have been as important as building towards the World Cup.
Last Saturday’s game was a waste with Peter de Villiers neglecting to back more fringe players in a starting capacity. Nothing was learned in terms of how the second-stringers could handle the starting responsibilities. Those lessons would have been worth the risk of defeat.
But De Villiers blew that opportunity, and failed in his own personal ambition to stay on course for a career-saving Grand Slam. He’s blown another opportunity ahead of this Saturday, picking his strongest side yet again, as a win against England could be what keeps him in the job.
If the Boks beat England, they will head back to South Africa with a scorecard that reads three Test wins from four. It may be considered a pass in the results department, but when it comes to developing new and exciting talent before a World Cup year, the head coach and the selectors have failed.
Lwazi Mvovo has been rushed into the Bok starting side due to Bryan Habana’s tour-ending injury, and wouldn’t be starting if Habana was fit. Pat Lambie has been limited to three second-half cameos on this tour, while Francois Hougaard has also been used erratically.
Willem Alberts has produced two powerful bench performances that suggest he may be South Africa’s new super-sub in 2011, but he deserved a start in the Scotland fixture. Lions flyhalf Elton Jantjies has done nothing but carry tackle bags, and would have been better served conditioning for an important Super Rugby tournament.
That the Boks would embark on a Grand Slam tour a year before the World Cup is a bungle at administrative level. No team should be expected to send full-strength squads to the north after a full year of rugby, especially just 11 months before the all-important tournament. This should be a time for testing new combinations and blooding new players.
Somehow this tour has become more about results and preserving De Villiers’s job rather than developing and strengthening new combinations. De Villiers missed another chance to try something different when he named his match 22 on Tuesday. He listed conditions as an explanation, but why bring the other players to the northern hemisphere if you’re not going to trust them to deal with the weather? Sending them on in difficult conditions midway through the second half doesn’t help their development or the synergy of the team, and it’s this kind of mismanagement and lack of common sense that’s characterised a disappointing tour.
Lambie should have been entrusted with a starting opportunity from the outset. If the Boks were really adamant about picking up the psychological points against World Cup opponents Ireland and Wales, then you could understand the decision to stick with Morne Steyn at No 10 as well as several other safe selections. But there was no sense in sending the seniors out against Scotland.
There’s even less reason to send them out against England. The Poms are hitting some form, and there’s a good chance a full-strength Bok side could come short yet again. A loss at Twickenham for the Boks’ first-choice team would render the tour a failure, as nothing new would have been learned, and two big defeats would have been suffered. But if De Villiers backed more youngsters in this final fixture and they performed (or alternatively, fared poorly) then he would know what he had in those players.
If there’s an argument that it’s unfair to ask players like Lambie and Jantjies to play now, it calls into question why De Villiers selected them to tour in the first place. Most of the fringe players will get a chance against the Barbarians on 4 December, but this fixture cannot be used to gauge a player’s aptitude for Test rugby.
449 Comments
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24 Nov 2010, 05:21 am
result not important dragons..
you guys are even sounding like the poms now,. how the mighty have fallen..
24 Nov 2010, 05:37 am
‘Experimental selections’???
In 2009 it has been rare for the buffoon to select the same 9/10 and 12/13 combo for more than one test!
24 Nov 2010, 05:39 am
@money_man(money_man) :
2010!
24 Nov 2010, 05:50 am
Hey Jon, Keo (hell, even Ryan!!)
Please start up a cricket thread again…the season’s in full swing and there’s plenty to talk about, from Brittle Smiffy to the pathetic pedestrian ploddings of Kallis and Prince last night. And even the Ashes.
Kallis is a great, but he sure plays for his averages – why ele would he poke around and frustrate the living bejesus out of us when quick runs, a declaration before stumps on day four and two new-ball bursts seem to offer the only (and very distant) prospect of forcing a result.
As for Prince, he is understandably under pressure to keep his spot, so fought to retain his wicket at all cost, to hell with the team. Than goodness for Hashim, Alviro and AB, who all did their best to push the pace, sacrificed their wickets in pursuit of quick runs.
Unfortunately, the cancer of South African sport – conservatism – was again evident once they departed last night in the UAE.
Amla for captain, bye bye Boucher, JP Duminy for has-been Prince.
Bring on the flat track bully Indians!
24 Nov 2010, 05:54 am
whats the point of blooding new players in a team with no plan. they will just look bad and lose confidence.
24 Nov 2010, 05:56 am
The old Bokke would be turning in their graves reading the shite these guys write about results being irrelevant, shame on you Jon on a weekly basis you cheapen the Bokke jersey.
24 Nov 2010, 05:59 am
PDV is trying to save his job. Why would he risk blooding new players. So please tell me this SARU is he does fail with his the strongest team and he failed to test young players what then?
24 Nov 2010, 06:06 am
Its scary to think what psychological impact it must have on younger players if the senior (first choice) players cant even beat Scotland. How confident are they going to be to playing under PDV? What impact does that have on their self belief?
24 Nov 2010, 06:10 am
All a bit late. Experimental or first 15…makes no difference if the game plan and the coach are defunct.
Same old tired outdated kick and chase and running into tacklers..as predictable as yesterday’s menu.
24 Nov 2010, 06:17 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA) :
Agreed 120% mate!!
24 Nov 2010, 06:19 am
if the boks are going to play a possession game then it has to be a slow and forwards dominated game because i dont think they have the players and skills to run the ball from their 22 for 80 minutes
build it in phases and line up drop goals if necessary this has become a must win game, 3/4 is better than 2/4 and will count the scotland game as a mistake.
24 Nov 2010, 06:29 am
PDivvy, forget conspiracies, incompetent referees, the third force and alien abductions, you now have the perfect excuse for another hammering on Saturday:
London – With the Springboks having struggled in Edinburgh’s rain, the bad news is that they may well have to deal with snow during Saturday’s Test against England at Twickenham.
24 Nov 2010, 06:31 am
How do you “make ” news if there are no news…..
must be a bummer….
24 Nov 2010, 06:32 am
@Jeez(Jeez) : If P-Divvy had taken a bunch of youngsters and left all the Experienced guys, who’ve played too much rugby back home to recover and gone out and said that the tour was being used as an opportunity for fringe and new players to show whether they are ready for test rugby and demand selection for the world cup, he would of had his job safe despite the results. If an inexperienced 2nd-3rd string go down against one or 2 good international teams so be it, but the chances are you will find a few stars and know who isn’t ready yet/ever. Then come back with a bigger and better squad to chose from and your super stars are fresh and ready to go for a long season of massive importance. The media would of forgiven him and the provinces could of lifted the pressure off him during the super 15 season. He has no idea!
24 Nov 2010, 06:34 am
yip i see it’s gonna snow… now with the poms in the “white” jumpers it would be fine…
but us in the green jumpers won’t know where they are to tackle them!
cause we ain’t gonna have the ball cause we will kick it to them…
24 Nov 2010, 06:56 am
@Joe Maher(Joe Maher) : Joe, do yourself a favour, forget about the Proteas until you read that Boucher, Kallis and Biff have retired, it will save you plenty of hair in the long run, cricket used to be my first choice sport, but this era has killed it for me and it will take many years for me to sit through one of their games again.
24 Nov 2010, 07:01 am
@MacToogie(MacToogie) :
Morning Toogie!
Mine was quite the opposite! Used to be a huge Rugby fan, but this era killed it for me. Would rather watch cricket now – when PdV chosen kids are no longer, I may change my mind.
24 Nov 2010, 07:11 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots) : Hey Billy Goat
Hows things old man?
yeah its pretty tough for us Saffas right now, but for me right now its like the weather and petrol prices, there F all you can do about it so i just ignore it and let it do its thing and hopefully it all just settles down.
24 Nov 2010, 07:26 am
hell Mitch’s Lions would have thumped the jocks in the cold and wet … so maak al die Leeus Bokke and get rid of the clowns, has-beens and prima donnas.
24 Nov 2010, 07:33 am
You have to feel for most of the Bok supporters who have no control over the destiny of their team & are forced to take whatever is dished up by their incompetent administrators & coach.
Without outside pressure, SARU will not change, but will go from bad to worse as it is simply an extension of government policy.
Make a difference by voting with your feet & not attending test matches. This will be tantamount to letting rip with both barrels because by also hurting the opposition (by your non attendance) you will immediately bring international pressure to bear on SARU to mend their ways. The government doesn’t mind upsetting the local yokels but they love to be admired by the world community.
Give it a go, you have nothing to lose.
24 Nov 2010, 07:40 am
AT this rate, in 3 or 4 years from now we might be watching springbok rugby on sabc 3….
24 Nov 2010, 07:43 am
@Inevitable(Inevitable) : you over estimate us Bok supporters, we will whinge and moan but we cant organise a pissup in a brewery let alone a mass action in protest, South Africans have a nature of “let someone else do it”
24 Nov 2010, 07:46 am
“his own personal ambition to stay on course for a career-saving Grand Slam.”
Too many personal ambitions in that Bok team!
Why didnt Victor stayed behind in Cougaria? Resting wouldve done him good!
24 Nov 2010, 07:49 am
@MacToogie(MacToogie) : call the afriforum hahahaha
24 Nov 2010, 07:54 am
@Transformation(Transformation) : let someone else call em
24 Nov 2010, 08:01 am
The Southern Kings will play Auto & General Lions (February 11)……..
24 Nov 2010, 08:07 am
@Joe Maher(Joe Maher) : We no longer cover cricket on keo.co.za.
24 Nov 2010, 08:08 am
“No team should be expected to send full-strength squads to the north after a full year of rugby”
More nonsense, is this not what the All Blacks did this year? Furthermore they will win their 3rd Grand Slam in the last 6-7 years.
24 Nov 2010, 08:09 am
Result against England irrelevant? What a load of rubbish!!! A win against England at Twickenham is always a high point of players and supporters alike. Can’t believe you white people are writing this ****!!!
24 Nov 2010, 08:14 am
@Zinto(Zinto) :
We have taken them 8 straight at Twickers and every time its been a great result and a great feeling to stuff the Poms.
24 Nov 2010, 08:16 am
@Zinto(Zinto) : now why you gotta go there?? its like saying why are you black guys womanizers? i am quite sure that 99.99999999% of white Bok supporters think that the result IS relevant and quite important actually, dont make it a racial issue just because of one idiotic white journalist, it will just highlight how ignorant you are.
24 Nov 2010, 08:20 am
@MacToogie(MacToogie) :
You put that bet on yet about the Ab’s choking next year?
24 Nov 2010, 08:25 am
a jouno surely has a difficult call to make.
does he tell it as it is (to the bok coach and players) and take the risk of never being invited to a media release….
or does he toe the line….
i heard Bob Skinstad say … naw… i’m not sure PdV should be fired “at this stage”….. (after ranting for 5 min regarding our style of play)…. now that’s what i call “covering your wickets”
24 Nov 2010, 08:26 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA) : waiting for a taker, no one wants to take it, you keen?
24 Nov 2010, 08:29 am
And we can also read a little deeper into this… A result is very important to our supporters where winning is really the only option(been a long year.)Probably for the management and coaching staff,s job security etc it would be quite irrelevant…
24 Nov 2010, 08:33 am
@MacToogie(MacToogie) :
I never bet against Black in recent times you would have lost 86% of the time.
24 Nov 2010, 08:34 am
Staal
Skinner talks a big game
24 Nov 2010, 08:34 am
You’ll find someone.
24 Nov 2010, 08:37 am
@gunther(gunther) :
Do you think the Poms will clean your boys up this weekend?
24 Nov 2010, 08:43 am
China
I’m not sure.
Weather looks like rain and maybe snow.
Looks like it will be an arm wrestle.
We should shade them up front but who knows?
24 Nov 2010, 08:45 am
@MacToogie(MacToogie) :
Thankfully then we wont have whiney so called supporters like yourself around good to hear.
24 Nov 2010, 08:45 am
Oh, so Jon reckons it was a blunder to send the Proteas on a Grand Slam tour the year before the WC, and to boot, we should not play our first choice players.
Bull Dust, the AB’s are on a Grand Slam tour and lo and behold, they are playing their first choice players – also after a full year of rugby.
Nah, this business of fatigue and loss of form is only really a problem when you are losing and is compouned by the fact that players have to perform above expectations to compensate for the lack of coaching and meaningful structure.
24 Nov 2010, 08:51 am
Winning breeds confidence … England were the losing finalists in the last world cup when nobody gave them a chance. Continuing to get victories over them will be a psychological advantage if we meet them in the play-off stages of the WC.
24 Nov 2010, 08:53 am
“Elton Jantjies has done nothing but carry tackle bags, and would have been better served conditioning for an important Super Rugby tournament.”
In your opinion. Junior players often say it was trips like these that created their hunger for the green and gold.
24 Nov 2010, 08:57 am
Jantjies must stay away from snorre. Let Mitchell and Carlos take care of him…..till we have another coach.
24 Nov 2010, 08:57 am
@Bok fan(Bok fan) : Agreed. Introducinh him to the Bok set-up now, familiarising him with the structures will ensure a relative smooth transition to the team should he be selected some time next year.
24 Nov 2010, 09:01 am
November 2010
27 Italy v Fiji Modena 16:00
27 England v South Africa Twickenham 16:30
27 Scotland v Samoa Edinburgh 16:30
27 Wales v New Zealand Cardiff 19:15
27 France v Australia Paris 21:45
28 Ireland v Argentina Dublin 16:30
December 2010
4 Barbarians v South Africa Twickenham 16:30
Great. Back to back rugga, and we can watch the Aussies too.
24 Nov 2010, 09:04 am
Obviously its relevant you idiots. A win over England will build nice confidence within the team and give us a psychological edge over England if we meet them next year in the World Cup.
24 Nov 2010, 09:05 am
REF’S FOR THIS WEEKEND
England vs South Africa at Twickenham, London
Referee: George Clancy (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Peter Fitzgibbon (Ireland), Simon Mcdowell (Ireland)
Television match official: Iain Ramage (Scotland)
Scotland vs Samoa at Pittodrie Stadium, Aberdeen
Referee: Steve Walsh (Australia)
Assistant referees: Marius Jonker (South Africa), Cobus Wessels (South Africa)
Television match official: Tony Redmond (Ireland)
Italy vs Fiji at Stadio Braglia, Modena
Referee: Dave Pearson (England)
Assistant referees: Christophe Berdos (France), James Jones (Wales)
Television match official: Graham Hughes (England)
Wales vs New Zealand at Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: Alan Lewis (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Jonathan Kaplan (South Africa), David Changleng (Scotland)
Television match official: Giulio De Santis (Italy)
France vs Australia at Stade de France, Paris
Referee: Brice Lawrence (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Wayne Barnes (England), Carlo Damasco (Italy)
Television match official: Hugh Watkins (Wales)
Ireland vs Argentina at Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Mark Lawrence (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Nigel Owens (Wales), Stuart Terheege (England)
Television match official: Daniel Gillet (France)
24 Nov 2010, 09:05 am
GEORGE CLANCY it is then.
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