Twickers result is irrelevant
24 Nov 2010
JON CARDINELLI writes that backing experimental selections at Twickenham would have been better than sending the first-stringers out to avenge wounded pride.
The Boks broke a 10-year losing streak in Dublin, a victory that was important in the World Cup context. They picked up more psychological points in Cardiff the very next week. It wasn’t pretty, but the Bok had struck two big blows before a defining 2011 season.
Then Scotland brought them to earth. Many people lamented the end of a Grand Slam opportunity when in the greater scheme of things, the Grand Slam should never have been as important as building towards the World Cup.
Last Saturday’s game was a waste with Peter de Villiers neglecting to back more fringe players in a starting capacity. Nothing was learned in terms of how the second-stringers could handle the starting responsibilities. Those lessons would have been worth the risk of defeat.
But De Villiers blew that opportunity, and failed in his own personal ambition to stay on course for a career-saving Grand Slam. He’s blown another opportunity ahead of this Saturday, picking his strongest side yet again, as a win against England could be what keeps him in the job.
If the Boks beat England, they will head back to South Africa with a scorecard that reads three Test wins from four. It may be considered a pass in the results department, but when it comes to developing new and exciting talent before a World Cup year, the head coach and the selectors have failed.
Lwazi Mvovo has been rushed into the Bok starting side due to Bryan Habana’s tour-ending injury, and wouldn’t be starting if Habana was fit. Pat Lambie has been limited to three second-half cameos on this tour, while Francois Hougaard has also been used erratically.
Willem Alberts has produced two powerful bench performances that suggest he may be South Africa’s new super-sub in 2011, but he deserved a start in the Scotland fixture. Lions flyhalf Elton Jantjies has done nothing but carry tackle bags, and would have been better served conditioning for an important Super Rugby tournament.
That the Boks would embark on a Grand Slam tour a year before the World Cup is a bungle at administrative level. No team should be expected to send full-strength squads to the north after a full year of rugby, especially just 11 months before the all-important tournament. This should be a time for testing new combinations and blooding new players.
Somehow this tour has become more about results and preserving De Villiers’s job rather than developing and strengthening new combinations. De Villiers missed another chance to try something different when he named his match 22 on Tuesday. He listed conditions as an explanation, but why bring the other players to the northern hemisphere if you’re not going to trust them to deal with the weather? Sending them on in difficult conditions midway through the second half doesn’t help their development or the synergy of the team, and it’s this kind of mismanagement and lack of common sense that’s characterised a disappointing tour.
Lambie should have been entrusted with a starting opportunity from the outset. If the Boks were really adamant about picking up the psychological points against World Cup opponents Ireland and Wales, then you could understand the decision to stick with Morne Steyn at No 10 as well as several other safe selections. But there was no sense in sending the seniors out against Scotland.
There’s even less reason to send them out against England. The Poms are hitting some form, and there’s a good chance a full-strength Bok side could come short yet again. A loss at Twickenham for the Boks’ first-choice team would render the tour a failure, as nothing new would have been learned, and two big defeats would have been suffered. But if De Villiers backed more youngsters in this final fixture and they performed (or alternatively, fared poorly) then he would know what he had in those players.
If there’s an argument that it’s unfair to ask players like Lambie and Jantjies to play now, it calls into question why De Villiers selected them to tour in the first place. Most of the fringe players will get a chance against the Barbarians on 4 December, but this fixture cannot be used to gauge a player’s aptitude for Test rugby.
449 Comments
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24 Nov 2010, 09:06 am
the Grand Slam should never have been as important as building towards the World Cup.
But we are building towards the World Cup by getting the edge over Wales and Ireland.
24 Nov 2010, 09:07 am
Not even going to bother reading the article.
Since when is any test ever irrelevant?
24 Nov 2010, 09:07 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri) : So Stuart the Diek got nothing, mmmmmmmm?
24 Nov 2010, 09:09 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : Since these journos acting like You magazine scribes
I see Gant Ball joined 365 and his articles are looking better already
Test matches are there to be won, we just do not get it right often enough
24 Nov 2010, 09:11 am
@JL1(JL1) : He is getting a time out.
24 Nov 2010, 09:14 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : True
24 Nov 2010, 09:15 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri) : Lets see if Steve can make a hatrick of stuff ups – one to go.
24 Nov 2010, 09:15 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : @JL1(JL1) : Im willing to bet a pretty penny that had an ‘experimental’ team been selected the JC wouldve been in full cry lambasting PDV and the Bok setup. Keywords would have been: “cheapening the jersey”, “winning is a habit, so is losing”, “Lost opportunity to gain edge over possible play-off opponent”.
24 Nov 2010, 09:15 am
The BaaBaa’s game is irrelevant……but these fools will probably showcase it like a WC final.
24 Nov 2010, 09:16 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami) : Building towards a WC should never be a goal. Playing good/excellent rugby no matter what combinations are available should be the goal and the results including the WC will follow. I agree that there are some preparation issues with regard to a WC in that the nature of the tournament calls for a different approach sometimes but developing your players to play good rugby should always be the prime goal. Unfortunately this becomes difficult for a national coach when each province/franchise has a different style of play. As a supporter though I’m tired of all the lows in between WC’s.
24 Nov 2010, 09:16 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah) : No matter what PDV does these vultures will always be circling.
24 Nov 2010, 09:19 am
The articles articles produced by JC remind me of the questions can you swim? Can you walk? Can you talk? Can you sing etc.?.
Yes! Well let me see you do it all simultaneously.
You don’t have suffficient players in you side to achieve all your goals.
24 Nov 2010, 09:20 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA) : or you could have won 5 times in a row
24 Nov 2010, 09:23 am
@bananaboy(bananaboy) : I agree with some of your points. In the year before a World Cup you need build towards the World Cup. I Agree with playing good rugby should be the goal. This always happens to S.A a year before the World Cup and then World Cup year our cycle starts again. The 2nd and 4th year of the respective coach/team are always the best. Jake 2005/2007, Pdv 2009/2011??
24 Nov 2010, 09:25 am
PDV has added good players to his squad over the 4 years now he just needs to bring them altogether and get them singing from the same page.
24 Nov 2010, 09:46 am
JC,
Too much energy is wasted on deliberating PdV’s suitability for the job, of his failures and that of on his assistants, suggest we drop it because its an exercise in futility.
Analysing the Village fool’s deficiencies do not serve any purpose, the guy was not appointed for his rugby coaching experience and capabilities, thus his employers will not dismiss him on the pretext of sub par performance.
Enough said
24 Nov 2010, 10:05 am
Simon #27 We do have more than two brain cells and noted that. Joe was asking you to bring it back.
24 Nov 2010, 10:05 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri) : Do you have the stats on SA games with Stuart **** reffing?
24 Nov 2010, 10:06 am
PA @ 52
Since the RWC started (unfortunately)
24 Nov 2010, 10:07 am
What a S H I T article.
No test is irrelevant.
EVERY test has to be WON. Bok supporters expect nothing less.
If you are winning your tests, good chance you will win the games in the RWC. Winning culture.
Plus, what benefit will fringe players add at the RWC?
24 Nov 2010, 10:08 am
@Bok fan(Bok fan) : 68 something like 2 wins out of 12
and the 2 wins are Portugal and Wales…
something like that.
Very abnormal set of results given the Boks’ average win ratio…
24 Nov 2010, 10:11 am
B’Boy @ 60
AB supporters don’t have too many lows between WC’s
24 Nov 2010, 10:14 am
If you have genuine depth, your B team might not rack up quite as many points as your A team, but they shouldn’t be so bad that they actually LOSE a test against a second-tier opponent.
But losing ANY test is unacceptable.
24 Nov 2010, 10:17 am
That the Boks would embark on a Grand Slam tour a year before the World Cup is a bungle at administrative level. No team should be expected to send full-strength squads to the north after a full year of rugby, especially just 11 months before the all-important tournament. This should be a time for testing new combinations and blooding new players.
Fail! The Kiwi’s are doing it, the wallabies are doing it, hell look at all the southern hemisphere teams touring up north right now. If they did not get sent they would have had how many games in the green and gold since their last one, excluding the EOYT before the RWC?
I think it was just before the end of the CC that the boks last played. That makes it the last game played by the boks :
Saturday 04 September 2010
South Africa 39 – 41 Australia
So from september till their next game without this EOTY, would have been when? How many months? Then we will hear once they laeve the RWC next year , they only had what 2 games? To pratice as a team for the RWC, they had no chance to blood young players. All they had was S15 rugby and no chance to play against the teams from the north. Sorry but your argument fails.
They must be on tour! They need hard games, they need to loose and often. That way they can try and fix what they have broken. Can you imagine how their kick-and-fail tactics would have left more than just egg on their faces at the RWC?
What do I know and care anyway. The RWC will be in NZ for the next four years! Even on the supersport website 75% of the people agree the boks are going to get hammered this weekend. Everybody can see it, everyone except Krusty.
24 Nov 2010, 10:19 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon) : this is all pretext to an axing.
the Test is “irrelevant” in that even if de Villiers wins it, it shouldn’t count in his favour when the Tour is reviewed and an assessment is made whether de villiers continues coaching the side.
24 Nov 2010, 10:20 am
This debate reads remarkably similar to the one that raged in the years prior to and right up to RWC07.
Jake White was a disaster and his very late decision to bring in Eddie Jones as an advisor was confirmation he was out of ideas to turn the team around.
We know SA won the cup, but what does that tell us? Surely not that Eddie Jones toughened the team up. Good grief SA nearly lost to Tonga and took down an England team in the final that was even more woeful than the Bok’s in their lead up form.
To me it means that form and luck on the day during the knock out stage is the only important factor in winning the RWC.
24 Nov 2010, 10:24 am
@Transformation(Transformation) : Spot on. These writers really think we’re as stupid as they are. I bet England won’t celebrate any less if they win and neither will the Boks. At the end of the day, those pleayers pulling on the Bok jersey want to do well, for themselves, for the team and for the country.
Last week’s game would have stung them and it will always be with them. They now need to utilize their natural ability to right the wrongs.
24 Nov 2010, 10:24 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon) :
“If you are winning your tests, good chance you will win the games in the RWC. Winning culture.”
How has that worked out for the All Blacks?
24 Nov 2010, 10:24 am
@Drlector(Drlector) : top post, you’ve exposed the daftness of jc’s thinking!
24 Nov 2010, 10:29 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami) :
Ireland and Wales wont be that disheartened over their losses to us. We were poor. And they know that. Lay down a good performance is far more of threat than limply winning by the skin of your backside. We are not seen as contenders, and that was well before this tour.
24 Nov 2010, 10:35 am
@Brads(Brads) :
You are a typically thick South African. Maybe your one of those kids that managed to squeeze past the 34% requirement at school? It shows. Jake had a very successful 2004 and 2005, he had a poor TNs in 2006 when 12 players were dropping like flies. He experimented on the tour whilst resting players, and went on to have a successful 2007. All Eddie Jones did was work on the motion of the ball, if you know what that is. Our test v Tonga was the result of completely new XV taking the field, where players like Pretorius, Pienaar and Olivier bombed. and Fiji had one of the greatest performances on their history, playing to a much higher level than NZ or AUS, or any other QF team. so you are wrong their as well. Luck? LOL. That is the favourite word of those who cannot come up with any in-depth assessment of our WC win but want to sling mud at it, so vague terms get used, and then the lies and twisting of facts get done to blur the truth of what happened before 2007. No Jake basher has ever mentioned the political interference and pressure in Jake’s last years. But that’s a little to inconvenient for everyone to acknowledge.
24 Nov 2010, 10:41 am
@Brads(Brads) : you have just been instulted by your ‘intellectual superior’, bow down since you knowledge is inferior LMAO
24 Nov 2010, 10:42 am
@pompies2(pompies2) :
Natural ability isn’t enough, we’ve seen that already throughout the last three years. You need real work being done off the field, we neec better preparation, management and real tactical nous from our coaches. Until we have this, we will not be successful.
24 Nov 2010, 10:43 am
There is only one thing to be said for this test. Pride.
The boks always come out fighting when they have their backs to the wall.
Remember the last trinations game vs Aus in 2008?
24 Nov 2010, 10:44 am
” No team should be expected to send full-strength squads to the north after a full year of rugby, especially just 11 months before the all-important tournament. This should be a time for testing new combinations and blooding new players.”
I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS NOW AND I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT P DIVVY SELLECTED A FULL STRENGTH SIDE FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL REASONS. HE PUT HIMSELF FIRST BEFORE THE WORLD CUP, BEFORE HIS COUNTRY. SICK I TELL YOU.
24 Nov 2010, 10:44 am
@gunther(gunther) :
Hope you do.
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong) :
Throw some HKD at it this time history is on your side.
24 Nov 2010, 10:46 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler) :
You are correct.
New guys need to be slowly blooded into the test environment.
These days a team consists of a squad of players, any one of whom may have to front up to replace a recognised first choice player.
A full strength first team needed to be taken on this EOYT, along with other players who were snapping at their heals.
Losing any match is unacceptable.
24 Nov 2010, 10:46 am
@Alucard(Alucard) :
What was successful about 05?
24 Nov 2010, 10:46 am
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck) :
True, pride is at stake, and we may yet beat England. But relying on pride and backs-to-the-wall stuff will not threaten anyone and will not get consistent or important results. I remember the dark days under Viljoen and Straeuli, every week we’d hear talk of the wounded Bok being a dangerous animal, and that we were playing for pride. Did anyone REALLY take us seriously? Of course not, and but for the odd win, we were totally humiliated.
24 Nov 2010, 10:49 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA) :
Isn’t thumping Australia in three tests good enough for you? How about beating the best AB side yet? Being within seconds of winning the TNs again? Extending our unbeaten home record to two years, a record to this day? Winning our first home series against france since the 70s? Jeez boet, you take no prisoners, lol.
24 Nov 2010, 10:50 am
@Alucard(Alucard) : Look, it’s a long way back up to the top, and it’s seems even longer after the highs of last year and this year’s S14.
But I bet this team can pull it off.
The problem is the coach….es.
24 Nov 2010, 10:50 am
@JohnX(John_Psycho) : 78
NZ are a ‘special case’. They choke under the weight of pressure.
SA, like Australia, know how to do well at RWC’s.
24 Nov 2010, 10:52 am
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck) :
That’s true. Fair enough point.
24 Nov 2010, 10:53 am
but since when is a result irrelevant
where do these writers get their inspiration for such titles
WOW
24 Nov 2010, 10:53 am
@Alucard(Alucard) : I hope you don’t mind me using the AB’s as an example.
What tactical nous have the AB coaches shown? What they have successfully done is harmonising all individuals strengths into a team context. And even this isn’t as difficult as it seems. There are merely feeding off what you can call their national rugby identity, whereby all teams follow a similar playing style. Contrast this to SA, where there appears to be 3 or 4 very different styles of play, so amalgamating all these differing playing styles and harnessing player strengths into a team collective is a bit more complex.
While saying this, I’m not naive enough to deny that PDV’s got it wrong at times, but simplifying international coaching shows a lack of appreciation for what it entails, especially in SA.
24 Nov 2010, 10:53 am
@Brads(Brads) : hey 34% jake was very successful in 2004 winning 69% of his games that year and improved on that in 2005 with a 66% average and was hammpered by injuries in 2006 to a 41% win ratio! it wasn’t his fault that he had to take this team to australia and get clobbered 49-0
Springboks: 15 Percy Montgomery, 14 Akona Ndungane, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Wynard Olivier, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Jaco van der Westhuyzen, 9 Ricky Januarie; 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Juan Smith, 6 Joe van Niekerk, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Danie Rossouw, 3 CJ van der Linde, 2 John Smit (captain), 1 Os du Randt.
Replacements: 16 Danie Coetzee, 17 Eddie Andrews, 18 Albert van den Berg, 19 Jacques Cronje, 20 Fourie du Preez, 21 Meyer Bosman, 22 Breyton Paulse.
24 Nov 2010, 10:55 am
@Alucard(Alucard) :
Thought you were referring to the Tri nations, 05′ was a very good year then when you look back for the Bokke compared to this year.
24 Nov 2010, 10:58 am
@Alucard(Alucard) :
Well there Dullard.
What on earth makes you think I am SA.
I made a statement based on what I am reading now and what was stamped out on keyboards by Bok supporters back in 2006 and 2007.
That said, winning 3 out of 10 3N matches in 2006 and 2007 was to me a little more than just depressing.
24 Nov 2010, 10:58 am
What utter nonsense – time and again teams have proved that results in the build-up to a RWC are irrelevant – England, South Africa, France and New Zealand all did so in 2007 (for example). Shouldn’t we simply be aiming to win every test we play, regardless of who we pick? We need a core of established players and as and when, we should introduce one or two new caps in to the Test arena.
We’ve got an average coaching structure for one of the proudest rugby nations in history and as a result, we play to a dire game-plan. We’ve never really had any succession plans for John Smit or that numbskull of a coach we’ve currently got. Can you imagine him being the CEO of a small company even?! He’d have been fired after his first press conference but we persist with him. It’s a shambles, as ever, at the top of Bok rugby and when we do win, it’s mostly inspite of our coaches and administrators, not because of them.
24 Nov 2010, 10:58 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon) :
Yip not good, but fortunately everybody still knows who the best team on the planet is.
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