Twickers result is irrelevant
24 Nov 2010
JON CARDINELLI writes that backing experimental selections at Twickenham would have been better than sending the first-stringers out to avenge wounded pride.
The Boks broke a 10-year losing streak in Dublin, a victory that was important in the World Cup context. They picked up more psychological points in Cardiff the very next week. It wasn’t pretty, but the Bok had struck two big blows before a defining 2011 season.
Then Scotland brought them to earth. Many people lamented the end of a Grand Slam opportunity when in the greater scheme of things, the Grand Slam should never have been as important as building towards the World Cup.
Last Saturday’s game was a waste with Peter de Villiers neglecting to back more fringe players in a starting capacity. Nothing was learned in terms of how the second-stringers could handle the starting responsibilities. Those lessons would have been worth the risk of defeat.
But De Villiers blew that opportunity, and failed in his own personal ambition to stay on course for a career-saving Grand Slam. He’s blown another opportunity ahead of this Saturday, picking his strongest side yet again, as a win against England could be what keeps him in the job.
If the Boks beat England, they will head back to South Africa with a scorecard that reads three Test wins from four. It may be considered a pass in the results department, but when it comes to developing new and exciting talent before a World Cup year, the head coach and the selectors have failed.
Lwazi Mvovo has been rushed into the Bok starting side due to Bryan Habana’s tour-ending injury, and wouldn’t be starting if Habana was fit. Pat Lambie has been limited to three second-half cameos on this tour, while Francois Hougaard has also been used erratically.
Willem Alberts has produced two powerful bench performances that suggest he may be South Africa’s new super-sub in 2011, but he deserved a start in the Scotland fixture. Lions flyhalf Elton Jantjies has done nothing but carry tackle bags, and would have been better served conditioning for an important Super Rugby tournament.
That the Boks would embark on a Grand Slam tour a year before the World Cup is a bungle at administrative level. No team should be expected to send full-strength squads to the north after a full year of rugby, especially just 11 months before the all-important tournament. This should be a time for testing new combinations and blooding new players.
Somehow this tour has become more about results and preserving De Villiers’s job rather than developing and strengthening new combinations. De Villiers missed another chance to try something different when he named his match 22 on Tuesday. He listed conditions as an explanation, but why bring the other players to the northern hemisphere if you’re not going to trust them to deal with the weather? Sending them on in difficult conditions midway through the second half doesn’t help their development or the synergy of the team, and it’s this kind of mismanagement and lack of common sense that’s characterised a disappointing tour.
Lambie should have been entrusted with a starting opportunity from the outset. If the Boks were really adamant about picking up the psychological points against World Cup opponents Ireland and Wales, then you could understand the decision to stick with Morne Steyn at No 10 as well as several other safe selections. But there was no sense in sending the seniors out against Scotland.
There’s even less reason to send them out against England. The Poms are hitting some form, and there’s a good chance a full-strength Bok side could come short yet again. A loss at Twickenham for the Boks’ first-choice team would render the tour a failure, as nothing new would have been learned, and two big defeats would have been suffered. But if De Villiers backed more youngsters in this final fixture and they performed (or alternatively, fared poorly) then he would know what he had in those players.
If there’s an argument that it’s unfair to ask players like Lambie and Jantjies to play now, it calls into question why De Villiers selected them to tour in the first place. Most of the fringe players will get a chance against the Barbarians on 4 December, but this fixture cannot be used to gauge a player’s aptitude for Test rugby.
449 Comments
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24 Nov 2010, 13:03 pm
@adi(adi) : pdv should’ve resigned on saturday chap, not because we lost to scotland, but the way the team was clueless! even the EP Kings would’ve played better than that kak!
24 Nov 2010, 13:03 pm
@adi(adi) : 190. Apologist for incompetence… one or two results another way, include losses against Leicester and Sarries and voillez, PdV’s record is 1% better than Straeulis….
Wake the fark up!
And ps, I don’t care much for Jake the Snake, I prefer Mallet and the great Kitchie…
Btw, why don’t you compare PdV’s record with Mallet’s, both are at 38 games… Mallet has a 10% superior win %…
You won’t because you are obsessed with the fact that this “must” be a race thing… Dunce
24 Nov 2010, 13:04 pm
@adi(adi) : Your are a sad man!
Tell me something are you perhaps Adi Jacobs?
Clarify this: I heard Pdv was forced to chose Zane @ 13 against Ireland because you (Adi Jacobs) are to fat and lazy and was not able to complete training?
24 Nov 2010, 13:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game) : on the park, yes he makes the decisions. this is what pdv WANTS ‘player responsibility’…unless the have NEVER practised or been coached to play that way then i can accept Matfield not knowing what to do…
24 Nov 2010, 13:08 pm
I agree with ADI, unfortunately our nation is served to total bias rugby writers. The racist opinion of the minority is reported as fact, when in truth the facts represented in stats reveal the PDV is one the the most successful coaches of the top four rugby nations. This might just be to hard for the white minority to accept.
24 Nov 2010, 13:08 pm
@askanaz1(askanaz1) : 196. Yeah “its already written”… in the stars?? Thats the only these poor players are going to win… It aint going to be due to the genius of TrickyDicky, Goldilocked or PdV… I can tell you that! Already it seems Matfield is making all the calls, onfield and off… He has to because nobody else is… And he is farking up because there are players in the Bok squad that don’t play like the Bulls because they haven’t been together in the Bulls setup.
Wake up, ask an aryan…
24 Nov 2010, 13:09 pm
@Gunter 184.
On a sad note.
While we spend all day on here debating if Boks will turn over the Poms. The AB’s taking Wales to the woodsheds,or should P Divvy,resign or be fired.
Spare a thought for the 3 members of Blaketown RFC, a 17 year old on his first day at work.The New Zealanders,Scotsmen.Australians,and a South African. among the 29 lives lost in the Pike River mine disaster,in New Zealand. early this morning.
Such a tragic event, that puts other matters into perspective including saturdays games.
24 Nov 2010, 13:11 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game) : **** muir was the coach vs sarries and leicester.
24 Nov 2010, 13:12 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) : 204. Ja, ja. Sounds great in theory, but if a player doesn’t know better than what he knows from his Provincial setup in terms of a coherent strategy, tactics, technique then obviously that is the way he’s going to call it. He definitely ain’t getting it from the Bok 3 “wise” men. And the Captain is going to fark up – expecting JdV to be a crash ball specialist, and Pienaar to be a Fourie Du Preez, or Aplon to be a Kirchner… Its a farking mess…
24 Nov 2010, 13:12 pm
Just to play a bit of devil’s advocate…
Why is there so much talk about winning percentages and comparisons with other coaches, when a high winning percentage is clearly not the main goal?
24 Nov 2010, 13:12 pm
@geo(geo) : come on chap, yeah the media has had the knives out for pdv but there’s no excuse for the putrid performance against scotland! that is kak whether u’re black or white and it is equally embarrassing, no?!
24 Nov 2010, 13:13 pm
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami) : 208. That figures. No different to now. Pdv abdicating authority… and responsibility… All the coaches seem to have done that now… and it shows!
24 Nov 2010, 13:15 pm
@willievz(willievz) : what is the main goal?
24 Nov 2010, 13:16 pm
@PaulLondon(PaulLondon) : 207. Yeah. A tragedy! I hope all the Kiwis on this site have not lost a loved one or know of someone affected. If they have, condolences chaps.
24 Nov 2010, 13:17 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) : 213 Winning the World Cup.
24 Nov 2010, 13:19 pm
@PaulLondon(PaulLondon) :
yes indeed.
a tragedy.
24 Nov 2010, 13:19 pm
@geo(geo) : i doubt that you and adi would be so outspoken if PDV was white. You fail to look at rugby facts and see people who criticize a non white coach as racist and that is exactly the reason why PDV is still in charge, because of that sensitive mindset. If he was white he would have been fired ages ago. Please go and find somewhere else to cry about the unfair ‘white people’.
24 Nov 2010, 13:19 pm
@willievz(willievz) : 210. Ja, Willie. You up to mischief now
The percentages show trends or progress leading up to the main goal. However, these trends are downward and there is no end in sight… This market bubble has burst… The “candlestick” has exploded or burnt out…
24 Nov 2010, 13:21 pm
are geo and adi cousins?
24 Nov 2010, 13:23 pm
@gunther(gunther) : Maybe even cousins of PDV!
24 Nov 2010, 13:24 pm
RUGBY’S COACHING JOKE (Chris Rattue)
You would think that a loss to Scotland, under any circumstances, would force South Africa to have a rethink about Peter de Villiers continuing as the Springboks’ coach.
Going into this season, the Boks looked well positioned to set up a mighty dynasty. Instead, they have crumbled.
De Villiers is a political appointment in the tricky and sometimes depressing world of post-apartheid South Africa. That aside, he is the biggest coaching joke in international sport, having brought a mighty machine to a grinding halt.
And yet, come a big day in the World Cup, you still wouldn’t write off the old enemy.
24 Nov 2010, 13:26 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game) :
Unless, of course, you believe in the conspiracy that the Bok players did not pitch up in 2010 mentally and instead focus too much on the 2011 extravaganza…
24 Nov 2010, 13:26 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) : I agree it was a bad performance against Scotland, but none worse than 2002 or 2006. But under PDV we’ve beaten the French, All Blacks and Ireland away, which the two previous coaches couldn’t do, but I don’t remember any such backlash from the media, unfortunately a certain section of the rugby supporting public, which also represents a minority grouping in our country seem to enjoy riding this bandwagon. I feel common sense has given way to allow frustrations to be vented and the springbok coach is a easy target.
24 Nov 2010, 13:27 pm
@Two Eyed(Two Eyed) :
Given what Rattue wrote about the All Blacks 12 months ago, he is a joke.
You think the boys on Keo are bad?
This maniac takes the cake.
24 Nov 2010, 13:27 pm
Ok so let’s break this down into bite sized chunks.
Q: What is rugby: A: Basically a sport
Q: Who is sport most aimed at these days? A: The spectators of course.
Q: What, to the spectators (target market) of SA Rugby, is the most important? Winning the WC only or winning as many games as possible so as to install national pride in our brand, country and, of course, to entertain. A: The latter obviously.
So, how does any rugby match become irrelevant in that context?
Ridiculous.
24 Nov 2010, 13:27 pm
I am sure PDV and Muir and Gold can turn it around next year.
24 Nov 2010, 13:28 pm
I don’t really care about all these historical facts about ex coaches who will obviously never coach a Bok team again. Currently we have a serious problem with our existing structures.
The highlight of our season thus far was beating Italy twice in a row at home.
On the negative side we look like a bunch of schoolboys coached by the head cheerleader(a very ugly one). We have players taking banned substances and trying to excuse this by saying nobody checked the energy drink. Oh yes Pdivvy did try and recruit a few proper assistant coaches, but none of them want to work with him(this on its own says quite a bit). We don’t even want to get in to his media outbursts, is just to embarrassing…
Now tell me again that we have problems?
24 Nov 2010, 13:29 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy) :
does that come with a powerpoint presentation?
24 Nov 2010, 13:32 pm
@Jeez(Jeez) : refer to posting to Transformation.
24 Nov 2010, 13:32 pm
@gunther(gunther) : Yeah, and with pictures too. I sent it to Cardinelli but it got returned, marked spam.
24 Nov 2010, 13:33 pm
@geo(geo) : Drop your obsession with colour bro!
The Stats dont lie!
24 Nov 2010, 13:34 pm
iori Yagami(#226) – They have been saying that for a while.
Have you noticed, under PDV the Boks do perform between the sublime and pathetic:-
Thumped England 46-6(2008)
2 wins in NZ
1 B&ILions
1 3N
And then some big *** losses!
24 Nov 2010, 13:36 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy) :
careful.
you will get an email.
or worse still they will ban you and you will end up like skopskiet.
parents will make their children avert their eyes and cross to the other side of the street when they see you.
24 Nov 2010, 13:42 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah) : @ 198
just think of the recipes that ole Ma’ Soo Zee will no longer pass down to her grandchildren. Tragic.
All this because results are, now, “irrelevant” in SA.
24 Nov 2010, 13:42 pm
@gunther(gunther) : In all fairness, that has nothing to do with the e-mail. Rather blame the fact that he is on the s.ex pest register. Number 14 of 1376.
24 Nov 2010, 13:42 pm
ADI and GEO , you both have my sympathy, when someone falls and his only form of defense is the color of his skin it just goes to show how little South Africans have progressed since “The New South Africa” . You know you are really at the bottom of the barrel when you have to make use of skin color.
I take it you see AC as a failure because the WP lost to the Sharks in the CC final? The sharks being coached by a white man must have hurt you deeply then. I saw him and still do see him as a failure because of how Eddie changed what was AC’s in the Bok team for so long, and the changes were immediate and for all to see. CC and otherwise, he is a likealbe chap, he has a good command of both afrikaans and english.
He is the kind of person who brings new insights to the park and one who is open to new idea’s. Yet he still believes in the values of what history has taught the world, and the game of rugby. You idolise Krusty so much you have put him above the game of rugby, in an ivory tower. You see him as a great person looking down at everyone, I see him as a clown trapped in a high tower.
Please get over yourself, racism is sooo 1980′s.
24 Nov 2010, 13:43 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther) : Better!
24 Nov 2010, 13:44 pm
@gunther(gunther) : LOL yes. I must say, I’m rather curious what, in Skops largely incoherrant, but remakably consistant rantings, promted them to ban him, when he’s been the flag bearer for inappropriateness for some time now? I mean what was the so called “staw” that broke the camel’s back? Which “fuckadilly” was it?
I’ll have to change my nic to something psuedo intellectual (but not) like dracula spelled backwards or something…….
24 Nov 2010, 13:45 pm
@gunther(gunther) :
Were is Grant10? Has he been banned? Haven’t seen him on here for ages…
24 Nov 2010, 13:45 pm
WHO OH WHY!!!! ..are people always getting on the race defensive??!! The wrongs of the past should be exactly that – the past! I for one would over the moon if Allister Coetzee replaced PDiv… any replacement really!
24 Nov 2010, 13:46 pm
Two things to bear in mind with regard to Jake. Firstly, in the 4 years since the world cup, damn nearly every time a coaching position has become available, Jake has “made himself available”, whether it’s a national team or the Putsonderwater Girls u10 team, and nobody wants to employ him. A world cup winnning coach, nogal! This is because he is a kak coach.
Secondly he is also a kak person. Making it clear to his bosses that he had no intention of coaching the boks after the world cup, and whining like a little girl when they offered the job to someone else (this after “making himself available” for the England job the year before. Isn’t it embarrassing when you keep “making yourself available” for various positions and nobody is even vaguely interested?). Trying to muscle in on PdV’s position when PdV was in exactly the same boat as Jake was a few years ago is the behaviour of a ****.
“But he instilled pride and discipline back into Bok rugby!” I hear you cry. Big deal. Since Afrikaners are pretty much born with pride in the Bok jersey, and through continual childhood beatings discipline is usually not a problem either, you actually have to go quite a long way to f*ck it up (thanks, Straeuli). My grandmother could have restored pride and discipline to Bok rugby, and she’s dead! Jake may have been a milllion times better than Straeuli, but he’s just as kak a coach as PdV, which is why their coaching records at junior Bok level and senior Bok level are almost identical.
24 Nov 2010, 13:47 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : I think Grant10 is John Smits wife, she wanted him home so beetched none stop, now he is home. Where is PDiv’s wife when you need him! ( :
24 Nov 2010, 13:48 pm
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami) :
like the bloggers last week who said he “had a feeling” Snorre wil “turn it aound” vs the Scotts.
24 Nov 2010, 13:48 pm
@willievz(willievz) : 222. All I believe in is a downward trend now…
24 Nov 2010, 13:49 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah) : A few restraining orders and everyone jumps to conclusions.
24 Nov 2010, 13:50 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy) :
Ja I must agree…. ‘Stormersboy’ does have a rather *** slant to it
24 Nov 2010, 13:50 pm
The only way we will with RWC11 is if Eng give us a beating…I hate to see it as I endured 8 long hard years in London without a Bok win but a big hiding is what we need…
24 Nov 2010, 13:51 pm
i hate to break it to you, but both white and pdv have very similar coaching records, and neither are anywhere near the worst of our history, in fact, both are nearer the top.
so what are we expecting?
24 Nov 2010, 13:51 pm
@Bod(bod) :
g a y
24 Nov 2010, 13:51 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : 239 G10 has left the site. some impersonator was insulting his kids and partner and he decided enough’s enough.
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