Arrested development
25 Nov 2010
JON CARDINELLI investigates the lack of black forwards at the highest levels and whether black forwards are genetically smaller than their white counterparts.
The biggest transformation failure over the past five years has been up front. The pitiful number of black forwards to represent the Springboks testifies to the fact, as does the negligible representation at Super 14 and Currie Cup levels. Why is it that South Africa manages to produce so many black backs, but so few black forwards? With a predominantly white make-up and two black wings, it’s no wonder some jokers refer to our national side as the Seagulls rather than the Springboks.
Since the start of the 2006 Test season, 29 black (black African and coloured) players have been used by the Boks. Eighteen of those have been backline players (12 of those wingers or fullbacks) while 11 have been forwards. Subtract two from the latter because the Zimbabwean-reared Beast Mtawarira and Brian Mujati are not products of the South African system. Nine forwards remain, of which just three are currently playing at the highest level. Apart from Bandise Maku, Chiliboy Ralepelle and Gurthrö Steenkamp, six black Bok forwards have faded into obscurity.
Eddie Andrews has long since retired, although he’s still at an age where he could be contributing (33). Hanyani Shimange is Western Province’s third-choice hooker. When fit, Lawrence Sephaka plays in the Vodacom Cup, but struggles to make the Lions’ senior team. Kabamba Floors is a permanent fixture on the Cheetahs’ bench, Hilton Lobberts is languishing at Boland, and Solly Tyibilika is playing for Border in the First Division.
A spate of injuries and poor management has afflicted Ralepelle’s career, while Maku has been the victim of similar malpractice at the Bulls. Steenkamp is one of the few success stories, although one homegrown, experienced black Bok forward is not enough.
Consider the demographics of a country where black people outnumber their white counterparts by nine to one. You’d think that South Africa would be spoiled for choice in the black forward department, but as the evidence suggests, this is not the case.
We’re told by Saru that the racial make-up of the age-group teams proves that transformation is working, but so few of those black players progress. The SA U21 side that won the 2005 World Championship is a prime example. Twelve players of colour (six forwards and six backs) were in that squad. Of the forwards, Ralepelle and Lobberts (who both also represented the successful SA U19 side) went on to play for the Bulls and Boks. None of the remaining forwards are currently contracted to a ‘big-five’ union. Davon Raubenheimer (Griquas) and Martin Sithole (Pumas) are at least competing in the Premier Division, but great junior prospects like Nikolai Blignaut (Boland) and Sangoni Mxoli (EP Kings) are wasting away in First Division oblivion.
Meanwhile, a number of the white players who featured in those age-group squads are thriving. Gerhard Mostert (Sharks), Pieter Louw (WP-Stormers), Heinke van der Merwe (formerly of the Lions and Boks, and now with Leinster) and Derick Kuün (Bulls) have all had extensive exposure to Super Rugby.
Saru says that black players have received insufficient opportunities at Currie Cup and Super Rugby levels, and that coaches are to blame. Others argue that the level of the competition is significantly higher on the senior stage. This latter line of thinking follows that some black players are fast-tracked into junior teams and are unprepared for the high standards of professional rugby.
Transformation becomes an ugly issue when quotas or targets are enforced. People who persist with such thinking miss the point. Transformation is impossible without development. Pushing a player into a professional team when he’s not ready is counterproductive. Administrators and politicians should be investing their resources and energies into black player development at grassroots level instead, so that in the future these players progress through the junior ranks and earn their standing in senior teams on merit.
Developing a new generation of black forwards is a task former Bok assistant coach Gert Smal volunteered for in 2008. After the World Cup in France, Smal felt he could do some good in the rugby-rich region of the Eastern Cape. He hoped to spearhead a programme aimed at producing more black forwards.
Smal put together a proposal and sent it to Saru, but they never got back to him. After months of waiting for a reply, Smal eventually accepted a post with the Irish Rugby Union and is still working with the national team as the forwards coach today.
‘It was a pity that I never got the chance to help the Eastern Cape,’ Smal says. ‘I’ve worked with Border before and I have a good idea of the complexities and politics of the region. With my experience as a World Cup coach I could have offered a fair amount of help to the coaches and administration.
‘There needs to be a concerted effort to bring black players through, and especially black forwards. I don’t buy the argument that they don’t exist. The black forwards are there, they just need to be identified and brought through the system.
‘I can’t comment on what Saru is doing because I haven’t been in the country for a while, but there needs to be some sort of forwards academy that will help with the fast-tracking of black forwards in South Africa, and that academy needs to incorporate the help of quality coaches to ensure players progress to provincial and even national level with the necessary skills.’
Saru president Regan Hoskins and his deputy Mark Alexander refused to answer any questions on the subject when contacted by SA Rugby magazine. It appears that the president is happy to criticise Currie Cup and Super Rugby teams for their failure to field sufficient players of colour, but when it comes to telling the public about what Saru is doing to improve the situation, he isn’t so forthcoming.
However, Saru CEO Jurie Roux agreed to answer our questions via e-mail. He makes it clear that all 14 provinces need to work at developing black talent, and believes the structures are in place to provide top teams with black players. He denies knowledge of Smal’s proposal to develop black forwards in the Eastern Cape, and is non-committal in answering whether South Africa really needs a specialised black forwards academy.
‘Saru is in favour of any initiatives designed to develop and improve players,’ says Roux, ‘so long as they are appropriately managed and run and do not conflict with the interests of South African rugby as a whole.’
The Kings are set to join Super Rugby in 2013 and no doubt the region will be subject to various development initiatives in the interim. As the numbers in top-flight rugby suggest, black backline players aren’t short on opportunities, but black forwards are something of a rarity. Surely it’s in South African rugby’s interest to change that?
And what better place to start than the Eastern Cape?
‘Whatever they decide to do, there needs to be more of an effort,’ says Smal. ‘It’s something I took upon myself to do, even when I was coaching Western Province. I realised that we had a lot of talented black backs, but not many black forwards. [Former Bok lock] Quinton Davids was probably one of the rare success stories.’
Smal believes the black forwards are there, and that they need to be identified and offered the right opportunities to develop. In challenging this view, some believe that black South Africans aren’t as big as Afrikaans South Africans, and that genetically speaking, they’re never going to offer the same power and size as their white Afrikaans counterparts.
Sports scientist Dr Ross Tucker is aware of the perception. He believes that Saru needs conclusive scientific data if South African rugby is to move forward.
‘A study was conducted at Craven Week level, and it found that the black players were smaller than their white counterparts,’ says Tucker. ‘However, it was also taken into consideration how many of these players were from previously disadvantaged areas, and how that affected their diet and training. They obviously didn’t have the same access to gym equipment and supplements as the white kids.
‘The study did highlight some physical differences, but I don’t think it’s linked to genetics. There are certain population groups that are going to be more suited to a particular sport than others, and I suppose the east Africans are an example when it comes to long-distance running, but it’s a stretch to apply that theory to black South African rugby forwards.
‘There is no conclusive evidence that black South Africans are genetically smaller than white South Africans. To obtain that kind of evidence, you’d need to track players at the lower levels and ensure black and white players get the same opportunities. If the study shows that more black players hit the ceiling of their physical potential before whites, then there may be a case.
‘It’s an argument that will be dismissed as racist in this country, but it should be a matter of science. It’s worth investigating because the findings will offer conclusive evidence. It’s strange that no study has been conducted yet. Transformation is a big deal in South Africa and millions of rands have been spent on development.’
Tucker says that if it’s true that black South African players hit the ceiling of their physical potential before white players, then that must be factored into how transformation is approached at the higher levels. If it’s false then it highlights the importance of development to ensure the black players make the step up. With more quality players to choose from, South African rugby is always going to benefit.
But until there are conclusive answers, the debate will continue to rage. Transformation will remain a dirty word, the equivalent of a four-word epithet that evokes a dual sense of anger and prejudice. Unless Saru does some work to retrieve this information, they will continue to be part of the problem. South African rugby will continue to stagnate when it should be soaring.
– This article first appeared in the November issue of SA Rugby magazine.
156 Comments
25 Nov 2010, 08:52 am
Transformation will remain a dirty word, the equivalent of a four-word epithet that evokes a dual sense of anger and prejudice.
25 Nov 2010, 08:54 am
Mr Wendell Dragons?
25 Nov 2010, 08:57 am
Some of your best work JC.
Conclusion…
SA Rugby administration are a bunch of ******* bafoons.
25 Nov 2010, 09:00 am
Hmmmmmm….
25 Nov 2010, 09:02 am
I don’t want to read this. Just the heading and opening paragraph pissed me off enough for the day.
25 Nov 2010, 09:10 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri) :
It is a good article with comments from some really knowledgable individuals.
Worth a read.
25 Nov 2010, 09:10 am
JC and his Darwinian Rubbish at its best!
Its all about opportunities or the lack thereof!
25 Nov 2010, 09:12 am
saw the heading and thought it was a follow up to the bees roux drama…
25 Nov 2010, 09:13 am
Watch that Hit counter rise!
25 Nov 2010, 09:15 am
Black / White population = 9 to 1
Anybody knows what the makeup of the Black / White rugby viewing and participation at all levels is?
I would guess it is 1 to 1 at most.
25 Nov 2010, 09:15 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri) :
Ignorant much?
25 Nov 2010, 09:16 am
JC – have you thought that maybe the reason why they are not featering for a province is because they are K@k and are not up to it – but rathre focus on other aspects, like the administrators and racism and and and. I bet you some of them were there because they were black!Chilli!
No one will have an issue with any player of any colour if they are all picked on merit – stop baning this racial drum
25 Nov 2010, 09:17 am
someone needs to investigate whether Pakehas are genetically more intelligent than Maoris because the All Blacks predominatly have Pakehas at fly half.
how many maoris, samoans, fijians have ever played fly half for New Zealand, or is it another case of arrested development?
25 Nov 2010, 09:17 am
@Doomsayer(www.pollwar.co.za) :
and your point is what?
25 Nov 2010, 09:17 am
And JC!
Where is the paragraph that indicates Dutchies are on average the tallest nation on the Planet?
25 Nov 2010, 09:18 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua) :
no it’s not, it’s lack of work ethic.
and the small brains cause headaches at scrumtime.
and then with the very big willies…it can make all the other okes uncomfortable at scrumtime as well.
in fact, that is the real problem, in my opinion.
willies are too big…which leads to too much pomping(unprotected of course)…whcih leads to too many kids(poverty stricken of course)…..which leads to not enough food which leads to lots of skinny small okes
….and then you can’t be a forward really, in my opinion.
….and then if you can’t talk afrikaans, you’re fcked really, isn’t it?
25 Nov 2010, 09:18 am
@Transformation(Transformation) :
Lol – i hate these articles – all to do with race – let the best man play regardless if he is a Japanese sumu wrestler.
25 Nov 2010, 09:19 am
The Dutch are on overage the tallest nation on earth. Secondly look at the top sprinters and what colour are they?
But been tall only really counts with locks so I am not sure what they’re on about other than creating controversy and attracting trolls which as you can tell are already here.
Oppurtunity, health, player culture and newtworks are what count.
We have had many players knocking on the Bok door but the door requires the right kind of knocks.
Alberts is prime example, this dude should have been a Bok a few years back; also Giomite only at 27…let me not get onto on one of our most underrated players Killian.
But you are right SARU are kak useless…
25 Nov 2010, 09:20 am
Agree with Pissant. While only scratching the surface it notes some interesting points nonetheless.
25 Nov 2010, 09:24 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl) :
Work Ethic?
Some of these black players have to work twice as hard as the Whities – yet whities being their Craven giving right get selected no matter how lazy the filth are!
25 Nov 2010, 09:25 am
Anyone who denies the role of genetics in Sport and specifically this scenario is an idiot.
I suppose the fact that the top 3 sprinters on the planet come from a small island in the carribean is pot luck.
And the fact that some of the best long distance runners on the planet come from a village in the Kenyan highlands is pure coincedence.
Baffles me.
25 Nov 2010, 09:27 am
20. Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua) same same
******
25 Nov 2010, 09:27 am
@John Galt(John Galt) :
I don’t want to read it. YOU FARKING READ IT IF YOU LOVE IT SO MUCH.
MY CHOICE *******.
JUST FOR TODAY I DO NOT WANT TO READ ARTICLES ON RACE! IS THAT FARKING OK!
25 Nov 2010, 09:31 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri) :
Bad morning then?
25 Nov 2010, 09:32 am
What happens when you are mixed like me??
Fark half of us are confused. I have friends who think been mixed race is better than cuacasian or african, you can get the best of both worlds. Its a new nationalism amongst some!
Ha ha ha I still tell him he got the wrong halves….
25 Nov 2010, 09:33 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri) :
Calm down lilly.
Then rather go to the all black thread
25 Nov 2010, 09:35 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua) :
and some can’t even pitch up at work…like solly and lionel.
filth that they are
25 Nov 2010, 09:37 am
Attending the “right” school also has a lot to do with who makes it right to the top in SA rugby I think (and how quick a player gets there). A good example is Gurthro, he went to one of the “right” schools…
25 Nov 2010, 09:38 am
@gunther(gunther) :
I was there, when groot bek had to flap his lips!
25 Nov 2010, 09:38 am
To me the biggest problem is that there are not enough places in each of the unions to accomodate all the players, so obviously there will be big competition for a place, so maybe SARU needs to look at introducing another CC 1st division team and increasing the size of the Premier division, but giving the smaller teams more financial boosts to encourage better players, thereby putting them on a more equal footing wiht the big 5 unions with regards to competitiveness.
25 Nov 2010, 09:40 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua) :
read the article mighty.
try and use what little education you have.
25 Nov 2010, 09:41 am
28. AlphaTango(AlphaTango) yep the right schools do play a big part.
25 Nov 2010, 09:42 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri) :
you know I just want you to be happy
25 Nov 2010, 09:44 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua) : dude just relax on the race vitriol…really
25 Nov 2010, 09:45 am
@gunther(gunther) :
Thank you. I am. Going to make some rooibos tea now and get into a calm space.
25 Nov 2010, 09:48 am
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua) : Dude. He was being tongue-in-cheek. You’ve misread it, calm down.
25 Nov 2010, 09:50 am
@John Galt(John Galt) : genetics indeed. Just remember that Jamaica was only inhabited by black people 350 years ago.
25 Nov 2010, 09:51 am
“Filth”?
JC, I thought there was a zero tolerance approach to racial epithets here. WTF?
Mighty Horua and Brigadier van Zyl, why don’t the two of you get a room and either release your frustrated sexual tension or kill each other in a private race war?
25 Nov 2010, 09:51 am
@jamisz(jamisz) :
Jamaica that up?
25 Nov 2010, 09:53 am
Another lie by Keo.
Maku was mismanaged by the Bulls. Another prove of how little Keo knows about rugby.
2004: Maku played for Border as loosehead
2005: Played for Bulls U19 as loosehead.
2006: Played Bulls Vodacom as loosehead and hooker. Also played SAU21 and Emerging Boks as loosehead. Played Bulls U21 (Werner Kruger and Dean Greyling were the props. Quite nice to compare the progress these three players made since then.
2007: Played Bulls U21 and Vodacom Werner Kruger moved to the senior side and Dean Greyling played the same sides as Maku.
2008: Both Greyling and Maku made their debuts as substitutes in the super 14.
2009 Maku selected for the Springboks.
Considering that Maku changed from prop to hooker (not always the easiest move) his progress at the Bulls was not really that different to a white player with similar talent.
25 Nov 2010, 09:54 am
Do you guys reckon this whole obsession with race will disappear someday?
What will cause an end? A bok team thats 100% black?
I dont think so!
25 Nov 2010, 09:55 am
@Garry_Owen(Garry_Owen) : IDJIT!!!! Read the article.
Answer me this. How can there be merit, when there aren’t equal opportunities? The paragraph below makes refernce to it.
‘There is no conclusive evidence that black South Africans are genetically smaller than white South Africans. To obtain that kind of evidence, you’d need to track players at the lower levels and ensure black and white players get the SAME OPPORTUNITIES’
K@K article by the way JC. This topis was debated just a few weeks ago. All it does is polarzie people into a right and wrong scenario. There could’ve been a better way to address this article, given that you’ve gone to the experts for thier opinion. The balance of the article sucks.
25 Nov 2010, 09:55 am
@jamisz(jamisz) : wasn’t jamaica a plantation and hence the black population there descendents of slaves?
25 Nov 2010, 09:58 am
43. @Transformation(Transformation) : Isn’t Jamaica STILL a plantation?
25 Nov 2010, 09:59 am
@Transformation(Transformation) : slaves brought from where?
25 Nov 2010, 10:02 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl) : Very humourous! Well I take it you meant it as humour. Seems to me ther are many on this site that have small tools and big chips on their shoulders???
Of course genetics plays a part, it plays a part in every individuals life. Du’oh… Aint so difficult to work that out. As for whether some nations are better at particular things again du’oh… aint so difficult to work that out either.
The Germans are logical thinkers and how good is their rugby team? The Scandanavians have the highest standard of living in the world and how many rugby players do they produce? Get my point? Okay for those that are cranially challenged… its all about interest plus cultural background + whether you want something. Surely?
Its not an article about race, its a topical matter in SA and other nations too. The 5 nations champs (i.e. the combined island team called New Zealand and including Samoa, Tonga, Fiji and other little island which I conveniently group into another island) also have their race issues make no mistake. However these blokes have a passion for the game and it is a means to rise above poverty and play sport for a living.
Many Africans play sport for a living, and whether they choose soccer or golf or rugby! So those of you that are ranting and raving already kindly relax take your foot off the pedal and see the article for what it is.
25 Nov 2010, 10:04 am
Oh for FS. Transformation is surely about giving players opportunities to progress in rugby? The mere fact that there are so many black players coming through at age group level proves that transformation works. What else needs to be done? Does transformation mean that the unions have to take the player by the hand and lead him all the way through the system? When and where will the player learn to take responsibility for himself? Transformation may be a reality in this country, but as Malema and company are learning now, the rest of the world does not give a flying **** about the colour of your skin.
And this is just the point. NZ and AUS players are not going to play to a lower level just because we are fielding quotas in the team in the S15. Coaches know that and therefore they cannot afford to select players who are not good enough. Who is going to pay SARU’s millions for broadcasting rights when we field under strength teams just to satisfy politicians?
I cannot for one moment believe that unions will willingly and knowingly not select a brilliant black player just because he is black. They stand to lose too much. If I am wrong and it is indeed the case, why do these players not do what the white players do – go and ply their trade overseas? Could it be that there will be no-one over there to hold their little hands?
No, the problem is that players are given a free ride into provincial age group teams and then take selection for granted. They stop working hard and they fall by the wayside.
Why do people blame the unions for the fact that black players do not take responsibility? Entitlement is a *******
25 Nov 2010, 10:09 am
@jamisz(jamisz) :
slaves r us?
seriously though remember that the slaves bought form africa were the biggest and strongest to start with.
furthermore only the strongest of those managed to survive the voyage.
so however barbaric they already underwent a form of natural selection.
added to that for 350 years they were exposed to a consistently better diet than they had at home.
plus they had herb.
25 Nov 2010, 10:13 am
@wackers(wackers) :
Very nice post dude.
25 Nov 2010, 10:13 am
@gunther(gunther) : Nope. The exported ones were the runts of the litter. Weak and slow, thus they got captured. The strong, fit, fast ones stayed behind.
25 Nov 2010, 10:17 am
As of a certain day when i hear any debate about..
“them or us”…
or,
“white or black”…
or,
advantaged & disadvantaged”
i don’t comment and am not interested.
please take the blinkers/filters off…. we are all people/humans and all need help and support…
i have been involved with orphanages for the last 13 years.
i’ve set up a fund for when the kids leave the children’s home i pay for their studies, accommodation, get them work, pay them a monthly income, pay their hospital bills and support them after they’ve left the children’s home….
they are all kids and i’ve seen that some make it and some don’t… even though we tried our best to help them all…
it’s live…. and then you get politics!
25 Nov 2010, 10:17 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah) :
No pal.
simply not true.
They targeted the strongest one because they were most likely to survive the voyage and fetch the best prices on the other side.
you are wrong.
remember it was spears vs guns.
even ussain bolt would have gone down.
25 Nov 2010, 10:18 am
live=life
25 Nov 2010, 10:19 am
@Staal(Staal) :
can you help mighty out?
25 Nov 2010, 10:20 am
@gunther(gunther) : IT was tongue-in-cheek my friend. Sorry, forgot the
Farking smillies…
25 Nov 2010, 10:22 am
@Staal(Staal) : Wow! You must be loaded! Just kidding. Good to hear,you make me proud of being a Bulls supporter.
25 Nov 2010, 10:23 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah) :
sorry pal.
was I getting to into the slavery thing?
25 Nov 2010, 10:23 am
@jamisz(jamisz) : i don’t know gambia, nigeria, ghana, mauritania etc?
25 Nov 2010, 10:24 am
@Staal(Staal) :
Ja boet.
All of this is quite simple in the end.
Socially engineered structures can only point people in the right direction, not force them, and this is what SA Rugby is trying to do.
25 Nov 2010, 10:25 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah) :
staal is loaded at all times.
in case the shallow pigs mutiny.
25 Nov 2010, 10:28 am
Quinton Davids, a rare success?? C’mon man!!!
25 Nov 2010, 10:30 am
@gunther(gunther) : @ 60
hehehehe,
sometimes i can’t get a shot in cause the shallow pigs and Boerboels are fighting like mad, … don’t wanna accidentally shoot the dog!
25 Nov 2010, 10:31 am
@gunther(gunther) : Gunther not sure where you get this idea from? As far as is known the slaves that were taken from Africa where captured by force without selection – so this was random capturing of the first people encountered by slave traders.
Large proportions of those captured died on the trip over to the other side of the ocean. Also in a ships’ hold if fever or any kind of disease strikes there will be mass fatalities. The survivors therefore were often lucky (i.e. survival rates were higher on ships with calmer sailing conditions and lower / none disease).
This is largely luck. And in Nature… luck plays a large role in survival. Survival of the fittest in Darwinian terms is all about procreation and not what is commonly believed (i.e. the fittest and strongest survive).
So the paradox is that the captured slaves that survived were the lucky ones!
25 Nov 2010, 10:35 am
@Staal(Staal) :
Living the dream.
I am deadly when it comes to taking down a shallow pig.
The trackers call me Big Bwana One Shot.
Their wives call me Nhosepipe.
25 Nov 2010, 10:36 am
@wackers(wackers) : @ 63
talking of natural selection…
Cheers series:
One night at Cheers, Cliff Clavin explained the “Buffalo Theory” to his buddy, Norm.
“Well ya see, Norm, it’s like this. A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.
In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine !
That’s why you always feel smarter after a few beers.” — Cliff Clavin
25 Nov 2010, 10:38 am
@gunther(gunther) : LMAO!
25 Nov 2010, 10:41 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : Hey Pissant what seems to me to be the main problem is foresight. Its not clever at all to look at short term gains which unfortunately is the fickle beast we see in most sports. The sports teams / nations that show better success rates are those with long term plans – look at Aussie cricket as a prime example.
So perhaps the question is not so much about genetics but about intelligence – and yes (before you say it!) these two are often closely linked. So how to solve the conundrum then? Any lucid ideas?
I know my IQ drops when I hang around doffies. Or when I passionately yell at the telly cause the better team is outsmarted!!!
25 Nov 2010, 10:44 am
Why are we still being forced to see it as a black forward / white forward thing?
Why not just a South African forward, and the best man for the job cracks the nod?
Do our green South African passports classify us by race or distinguish our rights by race in any way? (should they?)
No wonder there are still so many racial chips on shoulders prevalent on this blog, the race thing is forced down peoples’ throats all the time.
South Africa is very far behind other multi racial countries I’ve visited where people mostly get on with their life not bothering about such things…
Did France make a national inquest into why their SWC winning team in 98 was mostly black when their population is mostly white? Of course not, that would have been silly.
25 Nov 2010, 10:44 am
@Staal(Staal) : Stall this has to be one of the best (or is that rare?) attempts at intelligent humour from the Yanks!
Personally I get very clever when I drink a skin-full. I think I’m taller and stronger and of course far more handsome. It’s only the next morning when the magic potion has worn off that sanity returns
25 Nov 2010, 10:48 am
@wackers(wackers) : Jip. Same here. From Richard Gere to Reverse Gear the next morning.
25 Nov 2010, 10:55 am
@wackers(wackers) :
There are a million great lucid ideas out there.
The one they are using currently though, is about a dof as it comes.
Transformation in SA is a numbers game. It is justified, argued and judged on numbers whereas the cause for the problem is never addressed.
You cannot play the transformation game as a numbers game, because then you are trying to manufacture a result not create one.
Manufacturing results of course brings short term results, but ultimately always hurts the cause itself in the long run.
The system and the way it works is ultimately to blame.
Leaders in our country and rugby are on short cycles, and they want to achieve results in these short, 4 or 8 years cycles where the problem of transforming successfully will take at least a generation.
A new guy comes in, and screws up what was done before and tries his own thing – no continuity, no goal, artificial results that will never address the real problem.
But in an age where TV dinners, just add water mentality is the norm, I suppose we are the victims of our own devices.
25 Nov 2010, 10:57 am
‘Eddie Andrews has long since retired, although he’s still at an age where he could be contributing (33). ‘
Lovely piece of journalism, considering the guy retired due to a back injury.
w w w.timeslive.co.za/sport/rugby/article365871.ece
25 Nov 2010, 11:04 am
Such Debates are contraversial. If we have to get technical then I will give you and explanation as a blackman:
The West Africans tend to be tall muscular and strong naturally. Here we are talking of Ghanians, Nigerians, Sierra Leoneans etc.
The East Africans tend to be long and tall, oh and slim. These are the Kenyans, Ethiopians, Somalians, Ugandans.
T^he Southern Africans tend to be short and stout. Particularly the Nguni tribes.. Zulu, Xhosas, Swathi etc..
Otherwise, lets not get technical. If we have to go down that root, then I believe the Afrikaaners of French descent tend to be better back line players than the Dutch or English descent players. Just look at Jacque Fourie, Fourie Dupreez, Henny La Roux, Carel Du Plessis, Jean De Villiers to name a few. They are creative like the French are in FRANCE.. They have the guile and pace.. Just a dodgey Theory..
It is all immaterial. Lets just focus on producing Top South African players.. We need the help right now, especially in rthe backline. We lack creativity and imagination.. Expect to see some moves from England this weekend. They are not the best but they will do it better than us. We need the Eddie Jones factor again. The backline moves we had in 2007 were impressive..
25 Nov 2010, 11:05 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : Yip PissAnt my take is that we should all learn from the Spanish / Portugese and buy our food fresh
and drink wine every night and sleep in the hottest part of the day.
What a pleasure to see “slow cultures” in action bru… Couple of years ago I walked 850km across northern Spain (at an average speed of about 4kms per hour) over a month. Gives you a new perspective I tell ya!
Oh and let’s not forget that Spain is numero uno in their national game of soccer!!! The best of both worlds methinks.
25 Nov 2010, 11:07 am
There are “instant” success stories, like Lwazi Mvovo, who only started playing rugby at 17.
But the focus needs to be on getting kids into rugby. Let them have the same facilities and access to coaching as the traditional rugby playing core and then watch the results in 10-15 years. That’s where the money should be invested.
Kids who play the sport and love the game will also go to stadiums, with their families, to watch them. The face of crowds in this country will also become “transformed” as a result.
Get those kids just as interested in rugby as they are in soccer and then watch the “transformation” take care of itself (rather than something that is manufactured to appease the government and bank sponsor).
Filter up, not trickle down.
25 Nov 2010, 11:10 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : The whole Gert Small-thing is really tragic and SARU’s lack of a response probably had something to do with Gert’s proposal talking about a long-term approach.
25 Nov 2010, 11:13 am
Just to add the West Africans tend to be Faster runners, of which alot of Jamaicans (Usian Bolts’ herritage), Americans, Other Carribeans descend all Slave descendants.. Plus the hard ship effected the genetic line in which the became more physically adept to hard work and hence their physiques’!! The generations and generations of cotton field pickers have made these people superior in physique.
just how Afrikaaner have immense size without necessarily being farmers but descend from farming roots.
25 Nov 2010, 11:14 am
@Tbozknows(Tbozknows) : what about the Shonas, Hutus, Tutsi, where is you “technical” analysis on them?
25 Nov 2010, 11:18 am
@Transformation(Transformation) : 78 lol
OK, so what we need then is to marry 22 local Dutchmen to some West African brides and then in 20 years we will have a “super team”.
25 Nov 2010, 11:20 am
@Tbozknows(Tbozknows) :
thats why afrikaans people are so good at kicking a rugby ball.
their legs are massively developed from kicking lazy farmworkers for generations.
in the same way that all Maevis’ children have massively developed right arms, from years of brasso work.
Maevis’ eldest son is going to be the next Ali.
Dance like a butterfly shine like a Brasso.
I already have a sponsorship deal lined up.
25 Nov 2010, 11:21 am
@Transformation(Transformation) : Good Question..
To be fair my research or lack of research is floored. This is based observation and interaction with friends etc.
I pressume that with the Shona, Hutu and other Central african tribes, they would have descended from the Buntus as they did, which originally came from Nigeria.. Hence they have some of the qualities. Shonas are fast runners, tall and look similar to the West Africans, like the Central african tribes.. You forget the Bantus spread accross Africa from Nigeria originally.
25 Nov 2010, 11:25 am
@Dumb Supporter(DumbSupporter) :
Ja well, one can never accuse SA Rugby of forward thinking can we?
25 Nov 2010, 11:26 am
By the way we all need to just stop the scrutiny, focus on one South Africa..
@gunther(gunther) : You have issues.. You had to take it to oppression.. We were having a civilised Debate…
@Transformation
(Transformation) : Good Questions..
25 Nov 2010, 11:27 am
I did some scientific research. I observed the Ghana WC players and compared them to our players. Can’t even compare ito physique
25 Nov 2010, 11:27 am
I dont even know what genetics I am made up from, how the hell it can be used in a transformation debate is beyond me.
25 Nov 2010, 11:27 am
@gunther(gunther) :
Where do you come up with this stuff???? Do you have script writers?
25 Nov 2010, 11:32 am
Muppets have the answers! Go the Gupta brothers / AB, PI talent mining route and recruit some Central Africans. These ou’s are massive, quick and most importantly, black! Even WI’s would do if they could stay off the local aaptwak.
Ploblem solved QED.
Slightly more seriously, doing things by demographics is just another leaf out the apartheid book.
25 Nov 2010, 11:36 am
@Tbozknows(Tbozknows) : don;t tell me what i “forget”, you are the one with the “technical” analysis gleened from “observing” your friends.
25 Nov 2010, 11:36 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt) : My genetics screwed me when I started playing senior rugby. At 6’2′ and 105 kg’s and a 100m time of about 12 secs (check with Tact) I was too slow to be a loosie, to short to be a lock and I passed matric so I didnt qualify to be in the frontrow
. Then I thought of becoming a ref….but got told I cant. I have 20/20 vision!!! 
25 Nov 2010, 11:43 am
@Transformation(Transformation) :
He needs to spend some time with Maevis.
25 Nov 2010, 11:48 am
@Transformation(Transformation) : As I said I am not an expert,, I read and make opinion as you do in education.. Don’t come to me with your rubbish sarcasim.. These are bits of fact mixed with observation mixed with common knowledge.. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT I AM NO RICHER OR POORER!!
25 Nov 2010, 11:52 am
Ahhh play nice guys. Tbosknows this was a little bit of light-hearded humour so no need to type uppercase / shout. Actually it makes a change to see a discussion where a bit of sanity prevails and without every 2nd comment being abusive!
I’m outa here. And all I say is “Please Boks can you make a semblance at playing sometype of game plan (any type rather than no game plan at all at all) this weekend?” Hmmm am I asking too much there?
25 Nov 2010, 11:54 am
Obviusoly someone is down on “hits” what a load of ****. Quinton davids a success! PWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA. Eddie Andrews… Pure Quota. Maku the what 3rd choice hooker after Botha and Pilleboy Ralapele ? Bolla Conradie? The wanabe George Greegan. Solly ? Hilton Lobberts another clown.
Lets have a look at some shall we. :
The Beast … Alas not from SA yet he is a worldwide hero and legend, good on him!
Brian Mujati… handfull of bok games then he left.
Wanye Julies … gifted a RWC medal just to make up the numbers there were better than him around at the time but lets not go there.
Ricky January … the first 200 kilogram scrumhalf, he did not make it because of talent and skill…
It is not just on the field though, look at Krusty, another huge success story .
The list is a long one and it can continue.. It wont change anything though.
Here is something interesting though. The prices of tickets for PSL games in SA…. Guess how much …. R40.00 Yup and the crowds are upset that after being set at R20.00 for the last EIGHT years, the price has doubled… Forgive me while I go and get very annoyed that the prices of rugby tickets for a game lets say , Province vs the Bulls also a “derby” just like Chiefs vs Pirates are horribly , horribly not the same….
25 Nov 2010, 11:57 am
@wackers(wackers) :
lfmao
no need to get all upper case….
25 Nov 2010, 11:58 am
@gunther(gunther) : i think Maveis has better physical attributes than this Tbozknows
25 Nov 2010, 11:59 am
@gunther(gunther) : LMAO 2 “upper case”
25 Nov 2010, 11:59 am
@Drlector(Drlector) :
how much do you think the average soccer fan earns?
and the average rugby fan?
supply and demmand.
go and sit in the naughty corner with TBoz
25 Nov 2010, 12:00 pm
@gunther(gunther) : Gunther I suspect we have a similar (somewhat warped) sense of humour? Right now its coffee time for me and then daily chores!
25 Nov 2010, 12:01 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) :
she would kill him in a wrestling match.
25 Nov 2010, 12:02 pm
Oh and I suspect we shall now see the emergence of a new saying / response “oi stop getting all upper case on me”
Ahhh at least I have contributed something to this blog hehehe!
25 Nov 2010, 12:04 pm
@wackers(wackers) :
go easy on the brasso.
i would send Maevis round but the wrestling is on and then its champions league highlights.
so I can’t see much happening today.
maybe a two hour chat with the family in the eastern cape.
special callmore rates.
the more Maevis calls the more Gunther pays.
25 Nov 2010, 12:09 pm
@gunther(gunther) : imagine Maevis on Methylxaminane-whatever-the-Boks-were-taking? she would moer Tbozknows AND his BantuNigerian friends that migrated to where he lives
25 Nov 2010, 12:09 pm
@wackers(wackers) : This is what happens when you come on KEO at times. Some insecure ignorant dudes start to play with satire and sarcasm and think they are more intelligent than everyone else.. Usually the Gunther’s and the Transformation who I have no idea what his back ground is..
He obviously needs to Read more befor emaking judgement.. “The Banter” is unknown to me “Maevis” sounds like a chick so I get that much.. Speaking of physiques I suspect Transformation find me attractive. Well I dont swing that way..
Thanks anyway Transformation…
25 Nov 2010, 12:12 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) :
Methylxaminane-Muti
unfortunately one of the side-effects is that you get all upper case…
25 Nov 2010, 12:13 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) :
“Transformation not so transformed..” Anyway each to their own.. Bok support division is expected from from such ignorance..
Are you tranformed because of your ***-change or opinions, I am confused??
25 Nov 2010, 12:16 pm
@gunther(gunther) : Man up Gunter!!
25 Nov 2010, 12:17 pm
@Tbozknows(Tbozknows) : you reek of an inferiority complex, calm down you coming across like uribenzi
25 Nov 2010, 12:19 pm
And this is what you get when you have rugby journos and fans trying to do social commentary… Farce and Comedy.
25 Nov 2010, 12:20 pm
@Tbozknows(Tbozknows) : 105 there you go, putrid but still attempts at being funny…try, try & try again…
25 Nov 2010, 12:21 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game) :
its always funny until somebody gets hurt
25 Nov 2010, 12:26 pm
@gunther(gunther) : 110. Ja “bru” like a meerkat killed with an axe…
Still chuckling…
25 Nov 2010, 12:27 pm
@gunther(gunther) :
Thank you for helping.
With the high prices of rugby tickets, ever wonder why the “people” at the games are not representive of the country? Simple those who dont earn the huge salary needed to buy a single ticket cant get to watch the game. If the rugby tickets prices were exactly the same as the soccer tickets prices the stadiums fans will be more representitive of the country.
Not only that but they will be full as well, have a look at the first division final game, the EP clowns against I forget who. Tickets were sold at R30 or R40 per adult for that game. 45 000 fans went to see it…. I have no idea how much the normal prices are but I am sure it is not that low.
Using your way of thinking then, that only the rich and wealthy who earn huge salaries that can afford to go and watch the rugby at the venues. Does the petrol you use to go to the venue cost more or less than the person using the HIACE E20 ? I am sure you will pay more to get to a venue. Then you want to buy something to drink and eat at the venue, PLUS your tickets…. Who makes more from one game then rugby or soccer? My guess would be Rugby.
Now have a look at this, how many of the new stadiums built for the SWC are nowbeing used at all by the rugby code? I know only of the EP clowns. now have a look this weekend at the local PSL games, see how many are at the new venues. See how many people there are and multiply that by R40.00 .. Now have a look at the sharks semi final , find out how much it was per time for that game and how many people were there, big difference in the amounts??
Then take a look at how much of that money from the sharks game could and would be put back into development at grass roots.. You cant develop the game without getting people involved, you cant create interest if people cant get to see their hero’s. Talk about taking the game to the people, it is more like taking the game away from the people.
25 Nov 2010, 12:28 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) : I was not trying to be funny. I tried to have a debate you turned belittling along side Gunther and now you are coming with a sob story about humour…. Dude lets lets appease this and move on..
25 Nov 2010, 12:36 pm
@Drlector(Drlector) :
it supply and demmand.
sure you can make the smaller games cheaper and encourage people from outside the traditional fan base to go and watch them.
but nobody is going to sell tickets to a semi or a final for the currie cup at R40 each.
its a nice idea, but it’s a pipe dream.
25 Nov 2010, 12:42 pm
“JON CARDINELLI investigates the lack of black forwards at the highest levels and whether black forwards are genetically smaller than their white counterparts.”
I just read the first sentence and it’s already funny.
25 Nov 2010, 12:54 pm
@gunther(gunther) :
http://totalfootball360.blogspot.com/2010/11/telkom-knockout-ticket-prices.html
Tickets selling fast for Telkom Knockout Final
TKO Final tickets selling fast
Posted: 2010-11-24 07:31
The tickets of the Telkom Knockout Cup final between Orlando Pirates and Kaizer Chiefs at Soccer City Stadium on December 4 are already on sale.
Within two hours of the tickets going on sale this yesterday, some 6000 tickets had already been sold, raising expectations that the match will be sold out before the end of this week.
The tickets for the TKO Final range from R40 to R60 for adults, whilst tickets for juveniles cost R10.
According to PSL spokesperson Altaaf Kazi some suite tickets are reserved for soccer fans at the FNB Stadium.
“The tickets for suites with no catering will cost R230 while tickets with catering will cost R750 per person.
“All tickets are available at Shoprite /Checkers and Compu-ticket outlets around the country,” said Kazi, adding that information regarding public transport to the stadium will be released before the end of this week.
Ernest Fakude
Yup rugby is a game for the rich, not for the fans, soccer is a game for the poor. You are right, we are wrong to believe that the poor will ever be able to see quality games and good venues for cheap prices. Then again this is football and real men, as we all know dont play football.
25 Nov 2010, 12:59 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) : What is Uribenzi?? Sounds like Shona.. I don’t understand that.. Thanks anyway mate..
25 Nov 2010, 13:00 pm
@Drlector(Drlector) :
bru
don’t try and be a martyr.
all I said is that they will never sell tickets to big knockout rugby games art R40 a shot.
nobody said its fair.
its supply and demmand.
if you don’t like it go and talk to ABSA and see if they will subsidise the tickets.
otherwise this is boring.
25 Nov 2010, 13:25 pm
Not that I am pouring water on all these lovely theories but SARU is not to blame nor are genetics. The simple and plain fact is there are not enough playing fields in townships. Kids will not play rugby on tar. But people can always blame all this on genetics. If we want this country to improve on what we have here is an idea. Put more effort on infrastructure. Not dumb arguements.
25 Nov 2010, 13:27 pm
@Tbozknows(Tbozknows) : 117. Its just Transie trying to translate Swahili…
25 Nov 2010, 13:35 pm
Not one of Gert’s brightest ideas – looking for black forwards in the Eastern Cape… He should be looking further north east in the Kingdom of the Zulu… I guarantee that SARU will find chaps that will make Bakkies seem sweet and Spies look like a Donkey…
Speed in the Eastern Cape, aggression and size in Zululand!
25 Nov 2010, 13:42 pm
Plenty of fat black men to become props and tall ones to become locks.
Problem with all young rugby players regardless of age is that one needs to make a living – get a job or study and work to get ahead, cause there are only so few pro rugby contracts available. That is when they are lost and cannot even find the time to attend a club’s practices or matches, simple as that. The best young players I’ve ever seen and I’m talking about the very best, have gone that way, especially white backline players that were denied opportunities because of quotas.
25 Nov 2010, 13:46 pm
@gunther(gunther) :
LOL!
I am not trying to be a matyr! I am trying to make a simple point. With rugby ticket prices so high, you wont get lots of blacks at the stadiums. Without being able to sell tickets you wont get money. Without money you cant invest in development.
No development means less quota players in the teams.
Why is the bulls team so strong? They have lots of card carrying fans, who can pay those prices, the more fans , the more money, the more money the more they can grow and develop or just buy players from elsewhere like Bjorn Basson.
It is a cycle, one driven and controlled by money. No money no development , lots of money lots of development. So how do you start this entire process from scratch then? It starts from SARU.. We know how gifted they are , look at Krusty..
25 Nov 2010, 13:46 pm
Very very good article Jon.
The Smal debacle reminds me of the King’s/Spear’s struggle to get recognition by SARU. It is as if they want nothing to do with the region.
Funny that…..but they’ll b i t c h and moan about transformation all day long.
25 Nov 2010, 14:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) : @ 13
You are the cut & paste King (or Queen!) so that can be your job.
Enjoy
25 Nov 2010, 14:12 pm
I AM SO VERY SORRY, but when is this BS going to end? A player should be chosen for skill NOT because of the colour of their skin. WHAT A JOKE.
Politics and Sport should NOT mix. EVER.
25 Nov 2010, 14:14 pm
@gunther(gunther) : @ 48
De best erb in de world maan!
25 Nov 2010, 14:57 pm
imo its just the nature vs nurture argument in colour (geddit?)
it may just be a little of both?
ross tucker says that a study has been done but…but….but….
are the black kids at craven week disadvantaged? i dont think its fair to use that line if many of them come from model c or private schooling.
in a far bigger population, it is inevitable that you will find outliers who will be held up as proof that black players are just as big but is that proof?
but will we all be mature enough to handle the results of a proper study? methinks not.
but i have no problem saying that black athletes seem to have the edge over white athletes and that japanese people…make great sushi? (oh ja, asians are GENERALLY shorter but culturally apply themselves to education like few other races).
25 Nov 2010, 15:01 pm
@rangerman(rangerman) :
I believed that asians had no pubic hair until I was about 18.
25 Nov 2010, 15:01 pm
@iluvafrica(iluvafrica) : when did you start having that view? #just asking?
25 Nov 2010, 15:19 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) : Round about the time it started working to his detriment. Im guessing.
25 Nov 2010, 15:28 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) : @Taahirah(Taahirah) : cmon guys.
when did the anc start agitating for a universal franchise?
how long is a piece of string?
is there anyone out there?
25 Nov 2010, 15:38 pm
@Taahirah(Taahirah) : the guy who coached France at the last RWC, bernard laporte, what is he currently doing? i think i heard he was Minister of Sport
25 Nov 2010, 15:52 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) :
Johannes Bal. Vorster and Piet Wapen Botha were not only Prime Ministers but also Ministers of GLOBAL Sport in their long lost days.
25 Nov 2010, 15:53 pm
@ET(ET) :
Thus those two m o n keys were the forerunners of combining politics and sports, forevermore.
25 Nov 2010, 15:55 pm
@ET(ET) : it’s been 15 years already, GET OVER IT!
25 Nov 2010, 16:12 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) :
Some people choose to remain ignorannt all their life by not realising that negative forces once initiated cannot not be arrested even by so-called development.
Classical examples:
exploitation
racism
and now………sports is politics and politics is sports.
Live with it as what has been the status quo for 350 years cannot be expected to be eradicated from peoples’ hearts and minds in 15 short years.
Just read the very, very ‘balanced’ comments here by the minutes to conclude that you are deluded and you are f arting against thunder.
25 Nov 2010, 16:24 pm
The reality is that many top-quality black players at age group and senior level are under so much more pressure to perform than their white counterparts that they ultimately fail to bring home the bacon.
Greater pressure to impress and to perform results in many exiting rugby altogether (think Eddie), or fading into mediocrity (think Solly).
Or, in the worst cases, they continue to be picked and to be picked on (think Chiliboy).
25 Nov 2010, 16:26 pm
What a crab article.
Why are there more white than black rugby and cricket sport journalists?
Why does Keo.co.za not feature more articles written by black bloggers?
Why are there so few whites making the national soccer side? Why are there more Afrikaans speaking players than English speaking rugby players? Why are there so many South Africans playing for other country’s national sides and that includes cricket. Why do we not develop rugby in the Indian communities?
Why are there so few black cricketers? Why do we not have more international black swimmers? Why are the not enough professional black golfers?
Why are there more world class black South African athletes than white athletes? Once you start forcing people into boxes just to satisfy politicians or to be political correct you are upsetting the natural development of sportsmen and woman. Black and white South Africans are equally talented, just let the whole process flow and the choose the best whether they are yellow or green.
Why do I keep on reading JC’s ****?
25 Nov 2010, 16:36 pm
@crowbar(crowbar) :
They were probably looking for another 1000 + thread.
I’m sure many so-called black people reading this would be offended.
25 Nov 2010, 16:44 pm
@crowbar(crowbar) : “just let the whole process flow” what does this mean? a large percentage of black people live in townships where there are no facilities for them to “flow” on, their schools are also bereft of the tools for development of their flow.
the National Basketball Association in America did not just turn Negro/black by simply letting things “flow”. facilities were provided in inner city projects for people to start playing the game, scholarships were offered and then the interest in the sport grew and more kids wanted to participate as they saw it as way out of their circumstances.
you can’t tell me Jongi Nokwe @ KwaMfundo Senior Secondary has an equal chance to make the Springboks as a Francois Steyn who is at Grey.
there would be no Wayne Parnell if he never got a bursary to Grey high…
25 Nov 2010, 16:53 pm
I should introduce JC to my big black buddy ……….
CHRIS GAYLE
Go on JC … tell him he’s small.
@Transformation(Transformation) :
What you are saying is true but there must be better ways of conveying it than JC’s theme for this stupid story.
25 Nov 2010, 17:19 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) :
How different is this sports-is-politiics-and-politics-is- sports tune you sing to the tune I sang earlier.
All those lack of sport facilities in the townships you mention is ….now wait for it …… sport is politics and politics is sports.
All I subscribe to are the FACTS not the dumb people asking or making dumb questions or comments respectively.
25 Nov 2010, 17:20 pm
@crowbar(crowbar) : “Why are the not enough professional black golfers?”
Do you not think one Tiger is enough for the world to deal with? Now you want more!!!????
25 Nov 2010, 17:20 pm
“One of last week’s stand-out performers Juan Smith on Wednesday said he, Van Niekerk and Cronje would all perform the crucial “fetcher” role. The job was last week expertly performed by Solly Tyibilika, but the new trio will do well to contain the brilliant ball stealing abilities of Wallaby George Smith.
“I suppose it’s easier when Schalk (Burger) or Solly are playing because we know that they’re the men first at the breakdown and doing the graft on the ground,” said Smith.
White may be gambling with his new-look back row and change of scrumhalf when one considers how well they worked last week. But the Bok coach is no fool and has made the changes for a reason.”
Or better yet
“” Great game – you’re dropped
July 25 2005 at 07:29AM Get IOL on your
mobile at m.iol.co.za
Next » 1 2
By Jacques van der Westhuyzen
It was the Springboks’ most compelling display this year, but coach Jake White will still make several changes to his side for this weekend’s Tri-Nations start against the Wallabies in Pretoria.
Saturday’s new combinations could not have clicked any better, with the loose-trio of Solly Tyibilika, Juan Smith and Joe van Niekerk, and the midfield pairing of Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie especially influential in the Boks’ 33-20 victory over Australia.
Added to this, rookies Enrico Januarie and Gurthro Steenkamp were also a handful for the Aussies, gaining plenty of metres and defending like Trojans, but changes there will be for the Loftus showdown.
Continues Below ?
The Boks have the edge on the Wallabies in South AfricaThe Boks have the edge on the Wallabies in South Africa – as they do over the Boks in their country – and it would seem only a very poor performance by White’s men would allow the Wallabies to steal a rare victory in the Republic.
The team that will go into battle at Loftus will have a more familiar look about them – whether they will do better than the side that ran out at Ellis Park is debatable – but still have the goods to get the Tri-Nations defence successfully off the ground. White, it seems, is still testing certain players and trying out combinations ahead of the real Test against the All Blacks Saturday week in Cape Town.
It is no secret the New Zealanders are the best team in world rugby at the moment and victory over them is what White and his players are targeting.
Maybe he’s experimenting, maybe he’s not, but White is certainly mixing and matching with a greater goal in mind. He has hammered home the point of consistency in the last 18 months, but while his squad selection remains the same, he has this year chopped and changed his starting XV, to varying success. But as White points out “that’s the beauty of keeping the same players together. They all know the calls, the running lines and what’s expected of them, no matter who comes in or who is left out.
“Some players were given time off at Ellis Park, others were deliberately left out,” said White after his side’s Ellis Park victory.
“I was happy with everyone’s performance, but there will be changes this week… I’ll pick a side to play at Loftus,” he said, hinting at the return of a number of Bulls men to the green and gold.
Pedrie Wannenburg has been added to the squad and he may form part of a new back row that will in all likelihood also include Jacques Cronjé. Fourie du Preez will also start again, as will Jaco van der Westhuyzen.
But after Saturday’s solid outing by a bunch of “new-comers” White will find it difficult to leave certain men out. He admitted as much.
“I gave some guys a chance to play at Ellis Park and they showed me they must play again,” said White.”"
Now compare what Deon Stegmann has dished up so far, to what Solly Tyibilika did, but hey!!!, why let facts get in the way of a nice k@k belief system
25 Nov 2010, 17:35 pm
@ET(ET) : 143 i was being facetious but u took me seriously…
25 Nov 2010, 18:26 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) : Off course you are right, I should have added never stop the development of rugby and any other sport for that matter in those areas, I just assumed that is the normal thing to do in any society, therefore the “normal flow process” term. Some times I forget that our society might not just be that normal, at this stage.
25 Nov 2010, 18:28 pm
@Dawn(Dawn) Well said.
25 Nov 2010, 18:31 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck) : Hey Tiger is my hero and I am worried about his form, I think he should just go back to ….basics
25 Nov 2010, 18:44 pm
No physiological reason why Zulu’s, Xhosas and the like can’t be great forwards.
As with their white compatriots they are great warriors, big and proud, hard fighters built on generations of solid nationhood.
The Coloured community tend to be smaller historically and best suited to the softer positions where they can blame the bounce of the ball if all else fails. They are by second nature fleet footed and able to slip through the smallest of gaps; which off course befits a backline practitioner. (The bigger uns tend to end up in politics or sports administration and so are lost to on-field rugby).
25 Nov 2010, 18:58 pm
@Transformation(Transformation) :
OK that’s a better fit for me.
25 Nov 2010, 19:00 pm
@Bhloo(redj) :
I see you are back from the virtual dead after finding things are not so great after all on the dark side of your moon?
25 Nov 2010, 19:01 pm
@ET(ET) :
You confusingly often blow it both ways.
25 Nov 2010, 19:11 pm
Those backline players should watch those fat slob administrators “tackle” the snacks and platters in the various president’s suites. Not to mention the fridge…….
26 Nov 2010, 07:37 am
To me it has less to do with size and more to do with mind set and up bringing!
26 Nov 2010, 17:04 pm
Wasnt Quinton Davids about 200cm and 130kgs. i also disagree with the lack of gym equipment and supplements theory, Muscle size is massively genetic weights only help so much and supplements make very little difference
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