Saru changes policy on Maori
3 Dec 2010
Saru has reversed its policy on the New Zealand Maori meaning fixtures between the Springboks and the Maori could take place in future.
Earlier this year, Saru president Regan Hoskins issued a formal apology to Maori players who were excluded from South African tours during apartheid. A number of Maori players became victims of the racist ideology of South Africa’s former government and were denied an opportunity to represent the All Blacks in South Africa.
This apology came after speculation of a Springboks vs NZ Maori match to mark the latter’s centenary. The match was originally scheduled as part of the Springbok warm-ups ahead of the 2009 British & Irish Lions tour but called off when Saru deemed the Maori a team selected along racial lines which conflicts with the South African constitution.
While the 2009 and 2010 opportunities have passed, there will be an opportunity for a match-up in the near future.
‘Saru held its last General Council meeting for the year on Friday in Newlands. The Council agreed to adopt the policy pertaining to the New Zealand Maori, which now paves the way for matches between South African teams and the Maoris,’ a statement read.
‘South Africa will play against any team which has the official blessing of its national governing body,’ added Hoskins.
Other outcomes of this meeting saw Gary Meyer of the KwaZulu-Natal Rugby Union elected as an Executive Council member. He replaces Francois Davids who resigned earlier this year.
Saru CEO Jurie Roux was also elected to accompany Hoskins as the Saru representatives to the IRB, while Dawie Groenewald is the new Saru representative to the Confederation of African Rugby.
243 Comments
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3 Dec 2010, 13:34 pm
Policy-shifting dragons!
3 Dec 2010, 13:36 pm
Not playing against the Maori when we have a push for transformation (Transie?) in SA rugby is silly.
3 Dec 2010, 13:42 pm
yawn
3 Dec 2010, 13:44 pm
Wow
schucks
thanks SO much, SARU.
How nice of them.
Its a real privilege
For the SARU.
3 Dec 2010, 13:59 pm
Hmmmmm. This opens the door very wide…
3 Dec 2010, 14:17 pm
Minority against minority.
3 Dec 2010, 14:35 pm
@Black Panther : yawn
who was breaking down whose door for an invite Fanny Pack?
3 Dec 2010, 14:43 pm
@BlackShark : you called?
3 Dec 2010, 15:09 pm
“Gary Meyer of the KwaZulu-Natal Rugby Union”
Not more Sharks, please!
3 Dec 2010, 15:53 pm
@THEBokFan : @7
No need to panic. We’re already in the countdown to SARU changing their mind
Again.
3 Dec 2010, 15:54 pm
@Transformation : There’s a lot of transformation-related stuff here. You views, please!
3 Dec 2010, 15:56 pm
@BlackShark : what exactly, talk to me, don’t be afraid
3 Dec 2010, 16:26 pm
@Transformation : SARU wouldn’t let the Boks play against a team full of d@rkies! The more things change, the more they stay the same
3 Dec 2010, 16:29 pm
@BlackShark : Yes, wait for it…
3 Dec 2010, 22:44 pm
@BlackShark : 13 what you missed is that the SARU constitution prohibited the Boks to play teams that are selected based on race. Technically, the Maori team is picked on the basis of race. The NZRFU is cool with this now SARU have relaxed their OWN constitution, if the home union sanctions the Maori team then the Boks will accept the challenge. It ain’t that hard to understand..
3 Dec 2010, 23:08 pm
it was such a silly decision in the first place.
too much angst in this country about race issues.
just wish saru and the government would relax a little and follow the lead of the rest of the world.
race should no longer be an issue in any decision.
4 Dec 2010, 00:26 am
So, this has to mean that SARU has no objection in principle to a team which is racially-exclusive?
That, in principle, opens the door to a whites-only team from SA.
(No, you can’t object to it on principled grounds now that NZ Maori is given the nod. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.)
4 Dec 2010, 01:39 am
as long as it’s not white south africans being racist it’s all good. Why is it a surprise that Hoskins changed his mind? They never stand their ground anyway. He’s got no morals – no fibre and will sell himself for anything. So bring on the All Black All Blacks – what a joke.
4 Dec 2010, 02:16 am
@Transformation : I get it. Just a bit of mischief-making…
4 Dec 2010, 02:40 am
Within its own country – the NZ Maori team has always been a fly in the ointment of the politically correct, and the bane of a multi-cultural society. Never fails to draw the ire around rugby camp-fires, and is certainly a throwback to colonial patronisation.
Over the years it has fielded lily white, blond haired players, even once a red-head, but is now generally accepted as an invitation team that hunts for international scalps.
Also performs an excellent role in testing the form of possible ABs. .
4 Dec 2010, 04:38 am
I would have thought that a team selected on racial grounds was a thing of the past? Or does this only apply to other shades of colour?
4 Dec 2010, 07:10 am
@BlackShark : i figured you up to somethimg like that…tackler, forget about a slegs blankes team boyyo and stay the **** out of saffa affairs u relinquished ur affiliation years ago. stofile & saru were the first to apologise to the maori for their exclusion even BEFORE their own rugby union did.
in our country we won’t select teams based on race for obvious reasons but if the free people of new zealand want allow scum like you to live amongst them or theyre cool with a team of only maori cats
then it’s their prerogative.
4 Dec 2010, 07:12 am
Well, this opens the door to the white minority in SA to field a “traditional” whites-only team again, in the tradition of the pre-1981 Springboks.
4 Dec 2010, 07:20 am
@TheTackler : keep looking for imaginary “open doors”. u’re just an ‘imi’in new zealand, behave urself. hahahaha
4 Dec 2010, 07:27 am
@Bludeks : Definitely not a thing of the past – still alive and kicking. Only applies to those who can trace a droplet of Maori bloodline. To point out the hypocrisy of the selection method would instantly deem the harbinger a racist.
Oh so true (sign)
To some people – it is not whether things are correct or not, but to feel grieved permanently as if society owes them.
Often when the pendulum in society swings to make a correction, it over compensates, and swings too far.
4 Dec 2010, 07:48 am
@TheTackler : 23:
No it doesn’t Tackles. If the Bok team were predominately black you could argue for a whites only team, but as things stand there’s enough whiteys in the Bok team to not warrant representation in another team.
4 Dec 2010, 09:09 am
@Transformation : I thought that was interesting, Transie, that SA apologised to the Maori before the Kiwis did. I remember reading about all the foot-dragging before they eventually did. Classy.
4 Dec 2010, 09:11 am
@TheTackler : One day IF the Bok team is mostly black, someone may entertain that idea. But like it’s been said, the Bok team is mostly white so you don’t have a leg to stand on.
4 Dec 2010, 09:21 am
@BlackShark : The AB team doesn’t have to be predominantly white in order to justify having a NZ Maori team. In fact, even if the ABs are predominantly brown, the NZ Maori operate as if nothing is different — the racial composition of the non-racial national team is irrelevant.
This is, after all, a matter of solid principle, not one of changing expediencies.
Either the principle of racially-selected teams is 100% acceptable, or it is 100% unacceptable.
Until now, post-unity SARU has ruled it to be 100% unacceptable. Teams HAD to be non-racial. On principle.
Now it’s changed. So, one assumes, it’s now 100% acceptable to have teams which are racially-selected, like NZ Maori. And, by logical extension, local teams which are 100% SA European/white, or 100% African, or 100% coloured etc.
4 Dec 2010, 10:19 am
@TheTackler : @ 29
since when is ‘white’ = a ‘race’ ?
since when is ‘coloured’ = a ‘race’ ?
isnt ‘Africa’ made up of lots of different peoples from different tribes and cultures that dont regard themselves as being 1 and the same ?
Why dont SA select a Xhosa XV ? a Zulu XV ?
I have played against ‘Auckland Samoa’. No problems. Tongans also have regional team in Auckland & Wellington. Pacific teams also exist in LAX (I can verify they hold amazing parties in an isolated shed in the burbs). Aus recently celebrated their ethnic peoples with a game of rugby league – to a Sold Out stadium.
Why is it that Safas regard themselves as the World Experts on Race and then apply policies relevant to their own history, on to others that are completely irrelevant ? You assume we drop everything when Safas talk on race, listen and act accordingly. We dont.
4 Dec 2010, 11:10 am
Whites and coloureds (and Asians and Polynesians and Africans Indians and Eskimoes and.. etc etc) have ALWAYS been races.
Let’s not split hairs here.
4 Dec 2010, 11:30 am
@TheTackler :
utter cr@p
does a 1 white NZer regard himself as the same ‘race’ as a white Afrikaaner ?
does a brown Polynesian regard himself as the same ‘race’ as a brown Pakistani ?
does a yellow *** regard himself as the same ‘race’ as a Chinese ?
does a black African regard himself as the same ‘race’ as an Aborigine ?
Youre talking skin-colour, Tickler. Tell me what other Nation on this Earth uses the word ‘coloured’ ?
4 Dec 2010, 11:30 am
*** = J a p.
4 Dec 2010, 12:29 pm
@Black Panther : Well said, sir. Our obsession with the South African, apartheid construct of race drives me to drink. Our so-called Coloureds, for example, are simply considered black in other countries. In fact, Coloured is a serious slur in the US, for example.
People like Tackler need to have their brainwashing undone.
4 Dec 2010, 12:44 pm
@Black Panther : Yes, a white New Zealander is indeed of exactly the same race as a white Afrikaner. Nobody could tell them apart if they came walking down the street side by side.
A black African is a black, whether he’s from SA Angola or Ghana.
To answer your question re: “coloured” — Americans used the word “coloured” in the 1930s-1960s after dropping the 19th century term “n.egro”. Then, in the 70s they moved to “black”, and then to “African-American” in the late-80s.
But, in SA, coloured people are a distinctly different mixed mulatto race from an admixture of African blacks, San Bushmen, Khoi hottentots and Javanese Indonesians, and there are several million of them — far more than Maori (who are also currently a mixed race)
A Polynesian is a distincly different brown race to a brown Pakistani or Indian (who are of the same race). And a Polynesian from Tahiti, Samoa, Tonga or NZ is different from a Fijian who is Melanesian.
Colours are merely used for convenience, not to split hairs. But separate, easily-identifiable races do exist, even in very admixtured forms.
It doesn’t matter what name you call them. You know who they are. They know who they are. And rules are built around their existence both in politics and also in rugby.
These rules are the polar opposite of “non-racial”.
More’s the pity. ALL rugby ought to be totally non-racial.
4 Dec 2010, 12:50 pm
Tackler is not brainwashed he is simply pointing out the logical assumptions that can be made from this decision, ergo: it is acceptable in SARU’s mind to select teams along racial lines.
Those of you who argue that white and black are not races then merely highlight that, what is called ‘transformation’ is actually discrimination based on the colour of someone’s skin.
Which makes no sense either because I know some Italians and Lebs that are darker than many black people.
I don’t care if NZ is happy to select along racial lines, it is not acceptable in South Africa. Why should we get over ourselves when other countries such as Germany are still sensitve over siies such as Nazism 60 years later. Would Israel like a Palestinian rugby team to play them, or represent them as a minority. Don’t think it’s going to happen.
My point: whether it goes ahead or not the team is a racist selection and SARU apparently doesn’t like racism, except quotas, and then although extremely African, best isn’t black enough because he isn’t South African enough. WTF?
4 Dec 2010, 12:53 pm
Races aren’t a SA construct. They’re a universal construct and this construct enjoys depressingly huge vigour in NZ, where Maori regard themselves as “aboriginal” even though they only settled here 1000 years ago. Australian aboriginals settled there in Oz 40000 years ago, before continental drift shaped the earth we now inhabit. Same with African and European aboriginal populations. Maori are merely first settlers, but settlers nevertheless.
And, in the modern age, being in a place longer doesn’t bestow any special privileges or human rights on you. If a Maori from NZ moves to Australia or Italy and acquires naturalised citizenship after 5 years, that Maori immigrant enjoys every last human right that any native born Australian or Italian does. Not a jot extra. As indeed it ought to be in a non-racial nation. Settling first or last makes no difference.
4 Dec 2010, 13:00 pm
I’d like to invite all my Jewish and Palestinian friends to a Pork Braai at the Wailing Wall next month.
What? You say I am being insensitive to the current relations between groups in Israel?
So what, I don’t understand that, being South African.
4 Dec 2010, 13:10 pm
I suppose that Maori, having 60 percent DNA from Asia (about Taiwan region) would give rights to the Maori rugby team playing in the pan-Asian tournament and admittance to the Asian Five Nation competition. mmmmmm this just more weird.
4 Dec 2010, 13:11 pm
@TheTackler : Are you still trying create a box for yourself. Maybe we should talk about breeding lines rather than race.. Very narrow breeding lines require high levels of inbreeding and in this respect people with a narrow breeding line are termed as Homozygostic whereas people with broad breeding line are called Heterozygostic..
The question you should be raising is what level of inbreeding exists within your family, community or society. Now if you can confirm that you have a narrow breeding line and you wish to preserve it… go and have a chat with your best looking first cousin or sister and tell her about your need to protect the breeding line. Hopefully she will identify with your cause and take one for the family and volk
4 Dec 2010, 13:12 pm
Tickler
you’re talking cr@p.
Your theory above should replace the word ‘race’ with the word ‘colour’. Yours is merely the SA Model of Yesteryear that conveniently lumped Afrikaaners and BritIsh whites together and granted them privileges excluded to others, despite them being racially and culturally different peoples. Still are in many ways, going by the jousts around here.
It is, however, fair to acknowledge that you are considerably more qualified to talk on this subject – being a Safa – than you are about Maoritanga and the Haka. Logic would usually apply that states you shouldn’t confuse the two.
4 Dec 2010, 13:18 pm
@youknowwho : I’m not sure of the point of that post. Are you suggesting the Maori are interbred? Which they are not it seems, there is no 100% Maori person left. So are you then admitting that any form of selection along ‘breeding lines’ is also as false as doing it according to race?
In essence there is no pure bred anything, never was. Should we then do it along class lines… but then some Blacks would be whites and some whites would be black.
Income? Same issue. ‘Culture’ – NOW THEN, there we go, we can discriminate using ‘CULTURE’.
I don’t like the taste of Pakeha so I can’t be Maori.
I don’t like Maas so I can’t be black.
I do like German cars so I could be a Malema.
I am educated so I can’t be a Malema.
4 Dec 2010, 13:21 pm
@Black Panther : BP I think the issue here is not that Kiwis find a Maori team cool, it’s that South Africa, SARU, in our current climate are willing to openly accept even the idea of ‘race’ or whatever it’s called to be a valid way to select a team.
See what I mean? It’s like not understanding why Hindu’s worship cows but leaving them be. It doesn’t mean I would love cows walking all over my streets though.
It’s ‘insensitive’ at this time.
4 Dec 2010, 13:34 pm
GYGT2
thanks for a few isolated words of sanity. And, if you read betw the lines of all my posts here, is exactly what I was saying.
4 Dec 2010, 13:35 pm
@goyougoodthing2 : The point of my post is to evoke a response from a dumbass like yourself and tackler… but to clear things up, I was contesting the notion of race.
We have various constructs beyond breeding lines and as you have noted, culture, income levels, intelligence etc…the nurture elements which we use to discriminate with..
Now breeding lines do affect mental and physical health.. The more Heterozygostic you are, the less genetic defects you carry forward…
WRT the moari, breeding lines have been diluted as you have pointed out but this does not in anyway need to affect Maori Culture which can be adopted by any person.
4 Dec 2010, 13:39 pm
GYGT2
….insofar as it’s a SA situation. And that in SA, it would regarded as ‘insensitive’. In SA.
4 Dec 2010, 13:49 pm
Tickler
btw – can I tell a Afrikaaner male from a White Kiwi male ?
Yes, but only most times.
Can I tell whether a white Safa male is Afrikaaner or Saltie ?
Yes, but only after 2mins of conversation.
4 Dec 2010, 14:09 pm
you call this snotty potty faced Pomeranian prick sane, you gotta have rocks in your head?
The ultimate self confessed racists on this planet are these Pomeranian whitearsed prats that think they somehow ordained with higher class Pomeranian educated levels of intelligence than races of darker hues than them
This GYGTHGfckdup2 is the ultimate example of a racist twat up his own infatuated whiteyarsed A.Hole, him and this other two bit twattyfaced inbred Pomeranian poefta Tackler are like 2 absolute poefta pakeha peas in a pod, stick those Pomeranian outright pakeha racists together and boil them in a pot, then chew their bones and spit them out again, thats about all such indoctrinated soppy white trash is good for.
for these fuckups to contest they are not in the slightest racist when all they ever do is compare one race with another extolling their own soppy whitearsed poefta race as superior shows exactly how f’ng deluded and consequentially racist hypocritical these fucked up ignoramuses actually are.
Either they see race or they don’t see it. if they are constantly comparing races and racist policies then their minds and brains are so infatuated with their own fucked up race to the extent that they are continually seeking opportunities to exalt their own fucked up breeding above another’s. And such is their outright poefta bred hypocrisy, blatant as clear as daylight every syllable they utter is encased in racism, whether you or they see it matters little, what matters is that it is recognized for what it is, outright white inbred superiority complexed racism to the absolute outright degree.
4 Dec 2010, 14:13 pm
@Black Panther : Sorry, it’s not possible. You’re lying.
4 Dec 2010, 14:20 pm
Tackler
if a retired couple walked down the street towards you, she wearing large hair, manicured and brash; he in white chinos and a yellow shirt with a Panama hat and a large gemstone ring on his chubby finger. They’re talking loudly but you can’t hear the accent yet – where are they from
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