Pulling no punches
13 Dec 2010
RYAN VREDE chats to Saracens boss Brendan Venter about clashing with authority, how rugby is dying as a spectacle and why being Springbok coach isn’t worth it.
Last season was bittersweet for you – making the Premiership final but missing the game [which Saracens lost] through a touchline suspension for an incident at Leicester where you were found guilty of ‘provoking the crowd’. What are your thoughts when you reflect now? Would you have done anything differently relating to that incident?
I couldn’t have done anything differently. I was seated in an area where I couldn’t see the bottom left-hand 22m area, and was right in the centre of the Leicester fans. It was ludicrous to expect me to effectively instruct my team in those circumstances. I understand and appreciate passionate support, but some Leicester fans were swearing at me and the abuse got worse when I constantly had to stand up to see the entire field. So I just stayed standing. It was an act of defiance, I wasn’t going to take that sort of abuse, but it was also necessitated by poor planning from Leicester. If they ever put me there again, I’ll stand again. Some of the things I was accused of saying to them was pure fabrication, though, but the disciplinary panel seemed pretty convinced given the length of the ban [10 weeks].
You were also accused of pushing a female Leicester supporter as you exited the area. People made a moral judgement on that, even before they heard the counter-argument. The charge was later dismissed, but, as a man who prides himself on his moral standing, what effect did that have?
It was devastating. It was a complete lie. The judge threw that charge out. It was akin to bumping into somebody at a busy mall and then getting a lawyer’s letter a couple of days later being accused of physical abuse. I couldn’t even remember the incident; the lady’s husband who was right behind her had no recollection of it, and, most importantly, the lady in question couldn’t understand the fuss. It was clearly a bid to tarnish my reputation. Thankfully the judge saw it for what it was.
He did, but you also angered him by eating a biscuit while he was delivering the verdict, which he later said had a telling influence on the length of your suspension.
That was a massive misunderstanding. I was eating the biscuit at recess and was suddenly called in to hear the verdict. I’ve since had coffee with the judge and we’ve shared our views on the case. He accepted that he may have overreacted on the biscuit issue and apologised for even hearing the charge brought against me for pushing that woman.
The latest in what is now becoming an impressive collection of misconduct charges saw you fined nearly R100 000 for comments relating to referee Christophe Berdos’s performance in a European Cup game in October. You criticised his management of the breakdown, saying: ‘They should have had three more yellow cards and we should have had 16 other penalties. Last year we won 10 games in a row by kicking everything. Maybe we should start kicking everything again. Rugby’s going to die if it continues to be refereed like that.’
When I offer an opinion, it’s backed by facts. Referees are struggling to apply the breakdown interpretations uniformly, but we’re not allowed to highlight those shortcomings. It’s the rule, but that rule is wrong and outdated. How does a party who contributes one-third to a game of rugby escape criticism if he adversely affects the contest? I’ll always be truthful in my assessment of a result. In late October we lost unexpectedly against Exeter and I admitted we were poor. If you reflect on all my post-match assessments you’ll find that truth and facts always guide my view.
Can you elaborate on your concerns around the breakdown and its effect on the future of the game?
I think the new IRB regulations in their entirety are spot on and well thought out, not just the ones relating to the new breakdown law interpretations. But specifically on the breakdown, it’s obviously critical to the shape of the game. The IRB wants a spectacle and referees are central to the implementation of that vision. There needs to be greater consistency in how that facet of play is managed, otherwise we’ll be back in the dark age of rugby where teams just kicked everything.
There has been a spike in the number of tries scored in the Super 14 and Tri-Nations, and the ball-in-play time has increased in 2010, yet there is not as discernible an improvement in those areas in the Six Nations and European club competition. Why is this?
I’ve seen this question answered many times and it always relates to the conditions we play in, but that’s not the entire issue. Part of the problem is that the southern hemisphere teams and referees have been playing under the new interpretations for longer. I don’t, however, think parts of Europe have embraced the breakdown interpretations as well as the IRB may have hoped. For example, by the end of October there had been 20 drop goals in the Premiership. In France there were 154. You kick drop goals when the ruck recycle is slow and that tells me everything I need to know about the application of the breakdown interpretations in those countries.
Let’s talk about your standing at Saracens. You seem to elicit a massive amount of appreciation and commitment from your players. Why do you think that is?
You earn your respect as a coach first, and then you solidify those relationships by showing that there is a truly caring man behind that character. I am intensely involved in the players’ lives outside of rugby. When their kids are sick they bring them to see me [Venter is a medical doctor]. When they are having relationship issues, we discuss those and I offer what advice I can. You can’t divorce the man and the player. They are a package and need to be approached as such. At Saracens we’ve got the philosophy that there’s more to life than rugby. That’s why we had no hesitation in releasing Wikus van Heerden from his contract when he said his wife was homesick. Players need to be happy. That, I think, has been central to our success.
Justin Marshall referred to you as the José Mourinho of rugby, saying: ‘I think Mourinho is a good comparison because he too is very strong-minded, outspoken, determined to succeed and so passionate about the game. But, most importantly, like Mourinho, Brendan can back it up with results and performances.’ What do you make of that comparison?
It’s flattering but flawed. Mourinho has built his reputation on winning major titles. I’m not at that level yet.
Saracens have a decidedly South African core, most of whom are excelling. Why is it that players like Schalk Brits, Brad Barritt and Ernst Joubert, who are all regarded as competent but not superstars in South Africa, do so well in Europe? Is it an indictment on the standard of the competitions?
No, not at all. South Africans don’t realise what immense talent they have. The guys you mention are all excellent, but unfortunately they are playing in an era when there are some exceptional players ahead of them in the Springbok ranks. Brits was competing for a place against John Smit, a great hooker and captain. Barritt was up against Jean de Villiers, who is the best inside centre on the planet at present, and Joubert was trying to push past Pierre Spies, again among the finest No 8s in world rugby. Another reason for their prominence in Europe is that, in South Africa, talent is disposable because of the wealth of that resource. In Europe that’s not the case and we have to invest in what we have and work hard on improving players, which then reflects in their performance. Here there’s no Deon Stegmann or Francois Louw to replace Heinrich Brüssow, or Duane Vermeulen pushing to oust Spies. My time in Europe has given me a greater appreciation for what we have back home.
Derick Hougaard is one of your players who has shown massive improvement in his all-round play. He looks a more refined player.
Absolutely. He runs the ball beautifully now and is purposeful and effective in taking it to the gain line. He’s only 27 and I think that South Africans will see a vastly improved and more potent player if and when he returns to play there.
What are your impressions of the Springboks less than a year out from the World Cup?
I think their struggles were rooted in the absence of key players, the most notable being Fourie du Preez, Heinrich Brüssow, Frans Steyn and Bakkies Botha. Any side would struggle without that quartet. Certainly there was some tactical naivety and I think some of the coach’s comments in the media heaped pressure on his players in a negative way. If they address those issues I can see them making a strong title defence.
Springbok coach Peter de Villiers, like you, is a man who speaks his mind. Yet you note that some of his comments adversely affected his team. Why is this?
It is one thing to have an opinion and another to have an informed opinion. I try and reserve my opinions to matters relating to rugby because that’s my area of expertise and those opinions are carefully formed and guided by research, trends and so on. I don’t think that has always been the case with Peter.
The Springbok job is likely to become available after the 2011 World Cup. Would you find that challenge appealing?
No, not at all. When I was younger I did. It was an ego thing. But I’ve gotten over my ego and myself. I think Allister Coetzee is the right man for the job. He’s been in the Springbok set-up and proven his ability in Super Rugby. Other strong candidates would be Rassie Erasmus and Heyneke Meyer. I’m having fun at Saracens and believe in what we’re trying to achieve. The Springbok job is not for me – the incessant pressure, often unrealistic expectations – no, good luck to whoever gets it. It’s too engulfing of your whole life. Here [at Saracens], you have the best part of coaching: brilliant friends and a brilliant job. The Springboks … it’s too destructive. The moment the stakes become that high, I don’t think it’s worth it.
– This article first appeared in the December issue of SA Rugby magazine.
62 Comments
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13 Dec 2010, 11:05 am
WTF!! Dragons
13 Dec 2010, 11:16 am
Agree with Alistair Coetzee for Bok coach.
Good answers to all the questions.
13 Dec 2010, 11:21 am
pretty solid reflective responses
13 Dec 2010, 11:23 am
‘Ryan Vrede interviews Brendan Venter……’
Im too scared to even read it.
13 Dec 2010, 11:26 am
@Eish :
Me 2 mate
13 Dec 2010, 11:28 am
You might not like Brendon, but any guy who is willing to risk himself for speaking his truth, gets my respect.
13 Dec 2010, 11:31 am
Hmmm… Ryan. Either that is your best interview yet, or you had a lot of help from KEO.
But, a good article. Too bad the article was published before this weekend’s post-match interview.
13 Dec 2010, 11:33 am
I’ve lost a lot of respect for Brendan a few years ago, but his conduct the last few months restored that. You had a lot of pressure coming from the media, governing bodies and even opposition team fans. False accusations etc.
Your defiance definitely showed the world we don’t stand back for them!
13 Dec 2010, 11:42 am
Decent article. Good to see that there are still people willing to speak their mind in this day and age.
13 Dec 2010, 11:47 am
Airline cuts All Black g_ay kiss scene
2010-12-13 10:00:03
A New Zealand airline said Monday it was cutting an in-flight safety video showing an All Black player refusing to kiss a male flight attendant after complaints it could spur g_ay suicides.
The airline said it had agreed to remove a scene from the video featuring All Black centre Richard Kahui politely turning down a request to give g_ay flight attendant Will Coxhead a peck on the cheek.
“The move comes after complaints from members of the g_ay and lezbian community in the past week,” Air NZ said in a statement.
The flag carrier said a university professor, whom it did not name, had raised concerns the homosexual rejection could lead to g_ay male suicides.
The light-hearted video called “Crazy About Rugby” shows All Blacks running through safety procedures for passengers boarding Air NZ flights.
The offending scene had All Black pin-up Kahui posing for photographs with female flight attendants then shaking his head, holding up his hands and refusing to pucker up when Coxhead points to his cheek hoping for a kiss.
The airline’s operations and safety manager David Morgan said it had not anticipated the scene being viewed as distasteful or causing concern.
“We have opted on the side of caution and are changing out the scene,” he said.
Coxhead, a real-life flight attendant with the airline, said he was “absolutely gutted” at the complaints over a scene he described as a bit of fun.
“I’m proud to be g_ay, proud to be an Air NZ and extremely proud of my role in the safety video,” he said.
“Obviously there are some people in the g_ay community that can be a little precious and need to lighten up.”
13 Dec 2010, 11:52 am
Jean de Villiers the best inside centre on the planet?
That’s a joke. He’s a one-dimensional crash-basher — no swerve, no pass, no eye for a gap, no sudden burst of speed.
He’s The Wet Barry’s other brother.
13 Dec 2010, 12:05 pm
atleast Ryan asking the Questions takes out the risk of Ryan answering the Questions and us having to read it.
Good answers to the Questions. From Venter. As I previously said, this man has his head on his shoulders and is doing a really great job at Sarries. I bet the players love him. He will one day be Bok coach, if the Bokke are lucky. He was a hardnosed b@sturd of a player and he’s a determined and knowledgeable coach.
He also embarrassed himself in that Interview, really very childish. And he was right to be fined previously for his churlish behaviour towards the crowd last season.
Perhaps Mr Venter needs to turn the promise of success in to the success of his promise.
13 Dec 2010, 12:14 pm
Aah Tackles, I disagree. He has all of the above and then some, but you won’t see that will you? And with “The Wet” at inside centre, Marius Joubert at outside scored 3 tries against The AB’s. Somebody must have passed him the ball!
13 Dec 2010, 12:20 pm
Perhaps this is an opportunity to focus on something that has caused problems with so many coaches and players over the past few years. How can the refs be made accountable for their performances? Yes, there are reviews etc but they are basically done by people looking at protecting the ref as opposed to being totally unbiased and with the intent of improving the situation. Many of the laws are far to ambiguous and allow for ‘personal interpretation’ on the field. I have seen games being easily manipulated (not really at international level) by refs and this is where we are heading for problems. Any ref will tell you that at any given ruck there are a myriad of law that can be blown for or against any side. Consistency in this situation is the key and so often the bane of the professional coach. A team can work hard all week at practice and suddenly have to change tactics due to the interpretations of a pedantic ref.
Solution: There should be a report given by every team on the performance of a ref. A standard document that is issued to every player. Whilst you will always get comments being affected by the result of a game there will be a some form of consistency at the end of a season or after a few games that will highlight strengths and weaknesses of a ref.
13 Dec 2010, 12:24 pm
@Transformation : @10
Will Coxhead – quite appropriate. i wonder he’s called Willy by his friends.
13 Dec 2010, 12:27 pm
@the peanut gallery : LMFAO, i hadnt even thought about the chappies name.
you sick ba stard!
13 Dec 2010, 12:42 pm
@Loki : Those two crash-bashers played 69 tests between them. Barry got a grand total of only 3 tries (against Canada and Samoa) in his 39 test career and Joubert got 6 out of 30 tests.
That’s a dreadful strike rate for test midfielders, even if it is much better than the joke-of-the-century, Wynand “One-Try” Olivier.
13 Dec 2010, 13:05 pm
Nice article. Not as relevant post this weekend, as the controversey around his initial no comments and then the “rain man” performance of the weekend will overshadow the other stuff.
13 Dec 2010, 13:29 pm
@TheTackler :
Stats are so intersting……
24 years of RWC and only one home win, minus the Springboks taking part.
A bit of a joke don’t you think?
13 Dec 2010, 14:18 pm
@jondood : and next yr they won’t win it either
13 Dec 2010, 14:24 pm
“It is one thing to have an opinion and another to have an informed opinion”
Priceless comment Brendan!
13 Dec 2010, 14:33 pm
London – Brendan Venter’s bizarre post-match interview following Saracens’ Heineken Cup defeat to Racing Metro was reportedly inspired by the film – Mike Bassett: England Manager.
According to the ESPNscrum website, the outspoken South African, who was fined by European Rugby Cup officials earlier this season for criticising a referee, ended his self-imposed media ban in the wake of his side’s 24-21 defeat at Vicarage Road with a hilarious performance in front of the Sky Sports cameras.
In the 2001 film, England football coach Dave Dodds is interviewed by the press and does nothing more than repeat the questions put to him. The Daily Mirror reports that Venter watched the film on a recent away trip to Gloucester and subsequently chose to use it as the model for his apparent protest against the €25,000 fine handed down to him after he aired what he considered an “honest” opinion following his team’s loss to Leinster in October.
The newspaper quotes the exchange from the film that stars Ricky Tomlinson as Mike Bassett and Bradley Walsh as his coach Dave Dodds:
Reporter: The team looks in pretty good shape?
Dave Dodds: Good shape, yeah. Yeah, good shape. Good team. Looking very good. Couldn’t be better.
Reporter: Having said that we’re not actually playing very well at the moment?
Dave Dodds: No, no. Terrible, terrible. Terrible shape, terrible team, looking very bad.
Reporter: Then again the omens do look very good for England?
Dave Dodds: Looking good, very good.
13 Dec 2010, 14:41 pm
@CaptainQuirk : so venter is a copy cat just like keo & his wanabee colleagues….90% of the time they copy stuff from other sites to post it here
13 Dec 2010, 14:52 pm
“It is one thing to have an opinion and another to have an informed opinion. I try and reserve my opinions to matters relating to rugby because that’s my area of expertise and those opinions are carefully formed and guided by research, trends and so on. I don’t think that has always been the case with Peter.” – Very diplomatic, Mr. Venter.
You’re basically saying that Dippy Divvy is an uninformed prat in the nicest possible way…
Good on ya!
13 Dec 2010, 14:56 pm
@Heavens Game : basically.
13 Dec 2010, 15:01 pm
@stormersboy : Venter “basically” says 2 things:
- He tries and reserves his opinions to rugby matters, unlike Dippy, who seems to have a bit of a hallucinogenic messiah compex…
- And the opinions he does offer (on rugby) are quided by research, trends etc. Unlike Dippy who does not seem to offer anything on rugby that is in any way linked to reality…
Yup, Venter “basically” says all that needs to be said…
13 Dec 2010, 15:02 pm
@Heavens Game : Basically, yes basically.
13 Dec 2010, 15:04 pm
@Eish : . It is basic… except for SARU, who don’t seem to see how basic it is, basically…
13 Dec 2010, 15:12 pm
@Heavens Game : 28/ Essentially…
13 Dec 2010, 15:15 pm
@stormersboy : Essentially, it is all basic… Like Dippy’s knowledge and ability to coach/manage the Boks, basic… essentially.
13 Dec 2010, 15:17 pm
Yes, essentially, basically, yes…..f..k, what was the question again???
13 Dec 2010, 15:18 pm
I see the Grey College thread was pulled. 3rd force at play?
13 Dec 2010, 15:30 pm
Venter would have been a great SS Oberst.
13 Dec 2010, 16:42 pm
I hear Venter… These pommes are expert antagonists. I still have not got my head around it.. They look for any reason to moan or accuse you.. Venter needs to just remain affloat. It is worse when you are in the public eye..
13 Dec 2010, 18:59 pm
Rugby would be richer if we had more coaches that earn the right to speak directly, and then do so with courage and intelligence.
13 Dec 2010, 19:33 pm
@funkyzoo :
13 Dec 2010, 20:17 pm
@jondood :
Any New Zealander will tell you that RWC’s don’t count. It’s the Tri-nations and EOYT’s that make up the numbers…
13 Dec 2010, 20:32 pm
@funkyzoo :
Spot on.
13 Dec 2010, 21:33 pm
PreDawn @ 37
“any NZer” ?
Strange. I can’t think of ONE NZer who would say that. In fact Fitzy recently confirmed as much when he said “every match matters” for the ABs and that maintaining No1 status “remains more important than anything else”.
But to somehow interpret that as saying “RWCs don’t matter” is taken a bit toooo much license. RWCs are, by definition, included in ‘every match’.
Tell me this. If the magic Genie offered you 1 of these 2 wishes, which would you take in future:-
‘Between RWCs, 50% wins, no more than 1 trophy, 30% wins vs main rival, no Grand Slams and turning up & RWCs with 1 in 24 chance of success of winning’
or
‘Between RWCs, 85% wins, 2/3 trophies, 70+% against your main rivals, 2/3 Grand Slams and turning up to RWCs with 1 in 24 chances of winning’
?
13 Dec 2010, 21:43 pm
@Great White Shark : absolutely right. They’d be just going through the motions at home next year, marking time for the next Tri-Nations and focusing on being perfect hosts. Kind of like a practise cession for the real thing I’d suspect.
13 Dec 2010, 21:47 pm
No , thats incorrect, the rugby world cup matters more than anything to New Zealanders.I for one arn’t too aggrieved over our WC record .At the end of the day,we’ve one a WC ,I know it was during the time when planet Earth hated South Africa and you weren’t allowed outside to play but that’s what you get for believing your ‘supreme beings’.Anyway, nothing will stop us from winning the 2011 WC,I won’t divulge to much information , all I’m saying is the Boks better bring there own chefs
13 Dec 2010, 21:50 pm
Bokke Baiter
have you been introduced to Tackler yet ?
I think he might pop in to say a quick hello.
13 Dec 2010, 22:00 pm
Keep the dream alive.
It’s like Bakkies Botha charging at you…you know you’re about to end up screaming and there’s nothing you can do…best to just roll over and let another Northern Hemisphere team beat you to third place…
13 Dec 2010, 22:07 pm
@bokke baiter : Bokkie dear. You obviously know squat about biltong mate. Doesn’t need cooking or Suzi to digest. A few cans of Castle and a penknife is all that’s required. Sorry to disappoint. Besides it lacks originality.
13 Dec 2010, 22:36 pm
I’m sorry ‘TASSIES’ you ‘ ve lost me there,if your referring to my post about South Africans being intellectually inferior to new Zealanders on the rugby field, due to there obsession with eating dryed and bar be cued meat, then you could be a good example…… What are you having for dinner tonight
13 Dec 2010, 23:28 pm
Brendan Venter you legend………..the Sky interview was classic……..you beat those old far ts at their own game….classic pi ss pull
Those who thought it was childish clearly are too doff to get it!
13 Dec 2010, 23:31 pm
@bokke baiter :
Probably a rare kiwi on a skewer………
13 Dec 2010, 23:33 pm
“all I’m saying is the Boks better bring there own chefs”
A threat and a whinge in one sentence…….absolute gem there popps……
14 Dec 2010, 00:49 am
“…there own chefs?”
It’s “their”, not “there”.
So there.
14 Dec 2010, 03:15 am
#49: (Move that closing inverted comma in line 1 to the left of the question mark.)
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