I never said the scoreline doesnt matter, what I said is that it very rarely indicates what went on in the game. By reading the scoreline alone a signicant number of games are wrongly interpreted. That’s where I end up disagreeing with fans the most, as their opinion of what happened is greatly affected by the scoreline rather than various events that took place in the actual game. Yes, the scoreline is ultimately king, as that’s what determines the winner, but from an analysis of the game? Not good at all. A great example is the Boks 07 WC encounters with England. The 36-0 result gets praised the most, even though it was far scrappier and more error-strewn by both sides. The final was a far more accurate and disciplined display. When I tried to discuss this with fans, they were unwilling to see these things, no matter what evidence I put in front of them, because they used the scoreline to decide that the Boks played better in the pool game. What Italy did to NZ in that 09 game was very similar to what the Boks did to the 05 Nz team at Newlands. But they just couldnt convert their chances. a closer look at the actual performance will reveal that Italy were far more capable than most would ever expect. They cannot be underestimated, if they can go to NZ and play like that, then what else are they capable of? I’ve seen them tear into all the top sides, and though they have not be able to steer the result their way, they more often than most would accept have been the better side. Like the Bok game in 09, the England and Wales 6N games in 09 and all Ireland games in 07, to name but a few examples.

my logic is eskewed?? please, many better teams on the day have come up on the wrong side of the scorenoard, but not one player who has been in a magnificent losing side will admit they hammered the opposition..

the game is all about taking your opportunities, doesnt matter how commendable or dominant you were if you dont win the game..

and as for your assumption that I dont want to see Italy “that way”, you could not be more wrong…

I see I am dealing with people here that can only interpret games by scorelines rather than what happens on the pitch. Being blasted at the breakdown, thumped in the set pieces and being scythed down brutally by defenders does, to me at least, imply that a team has taken a bit of a hammering. I never said they won that game. By your reckoning the England side of 02 did not receive a hammering by the Boks, despite finishing the game with eleven injury concerns! Then you have the Boks 62 pointer against Australia in 96. It was actually much closer than the scoreline suggests. The Boks merely finishing off every opportunity that was made available to them. Your logic is eskewed. Look, I do not want to end up fighting on here, but you’re deliberately trying to drag my comment out of context. I said that Italy should not be underestimated, and I pointed to their performance in a country that is a death sentence to visiting teams as an example of how they can be a threat. Everything I stated was factual and to the point. But I suspect that this boils down to you not wanting to see Italy in that way, and if that’s the case, we may as well agree to disagree right now. I respect your opinion, but I differ.

to push a team close is commendable and shows they are improving, but it is not the same..

can you see the difference?

therefore to procaim a team has “hammered” another team without a solitary victory is idiotic?

Gary Moore RIP

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12377862

Sort of agree… though they do not lack courage.
But yes the weight of history affects their belief.
They should give NZ no respect and let the cards fall where they may.. win or lose

Hence my comparison with Italy v Ireland in Six Nations.
Yesterday will frustrate the hell out of Italy.

Ireland do not possess the courage to stand up to NZ. I’ve seen how they play against all three SH giants, and they are simply afraid of NZ. They never go all out, and even when they try it never has any real conviction. Are they capable? Yes. But without belief, it will never happen. I’ve seen far lesser Bok sides than Ireland cripple NZ, because they wanted it and believed they could do it. You hear how the NH talk about the ABs pre-game, they automatically accept defeat, on their knees at the AB shrine in awe. This is by far the biggest reason for Nz dominance over them. Until that changes, they will never win, because you will never find an All Black side that will lay down and die, or with the same limitations the Boks have at present in the coaching stakes.

Their best ever result against Ireland was in 2007, where, away from home, they totally outclassed Ireland in all facets of play, excibiting clinical back play. They went down 23-20 as they simply did not have the fitness to maintain that level of play, a real let off for Ireland.

What an idiot? Do you not remember the Italian game away in New Zealand in 2009? It took an exceedingly late blitz to break them. But then, you already knew that, as you know everything, right? Quite quick to call people an idiot in the very same post that you unveil your own idiocy. There have been numerous games that Italy have pushed top test nations to the limit, that includes England, France, Australia and South Africa.

Just why Ireland gave Italy too much respect astonishes me.
All the pre match talk from Kidney and BOD was of how Italy would inevitably beat Ireland in the Six Nations.

Question for the Kiwis on here:
While it is inevitable that Ireland will beat NZ at some stage…Have you ever heard a NZ captain admit that?
No on my watch is the mantra and should have been Ireland’s.

Kidney is becoming Eddie O Sullivan mark 2 with the silly selections of his mates at Munster who are out of form. An unbalanced backrow, rusty SH, wrong hooker… slowed Irish ball down almost as much as Romain Poite allowed Italy to do.

But really.. something needs to be done about Poite. Clearly he was reffing only one side. Italy just had to put the ball into their second row at scrum time and go nowhere before boring up or collapsing to get a penalty. The Ireland scrum did quite well and were penalized on reputation only.

very blatant example of if you only look at one sides offences … Italy went off their feet at every ruck with impunity

For the ref to write a letter to the Italian Union apologizing on how he reffed the same fixture 2 years ago is both shameful and disgraceful.

@poppa69(poppa69)-6: calm down pooper

best you stay off the drugs…

what an idiot… do you even follow rugby?????

Say what?