The danger of derbies
1 Mar 2011
RYAN VREDE believes the brutal physicality of the South African Super Rugby derbies have the potential to seriously undermine the Springboks’ World Cup campaign.
With the expanded Super Rugby tournament in its infancy, that appears to be a premature assertion. But you would have to present a convincing argument to alter my position, shaped by watching the controlled violence played out in Johannesburg, Bloemfontein, Cape Town and Durban in the past fortnight.
South African derbies have featured more ruck cleans and counter rucks than in the Australian equivalent. Furthermore, South African derbies totalled 26 more tackles than their Australian counterparts and 241 more than the all-Kiwi contests (that figure is significantly higher because of the cancelled Crusaders-Hurricanes match).
However, those statistics fail to reflect the brutality of the collisions in South African derbies. I don’t have access to technology that could accurately measure force at point of contact, so my view relies on the experience of watching derbies live and from South African players in interviews consistently confirming that the physicality of matches against Australasian teams pales in comparison to those against their countrymen.
The Saffa player has always been driven by the primal urge to pummel his brother into submission. The Australasian teams don’t share that mentality, preferring to strike with the rapier rather than establish their dominance by wielding the bludgeon.
What’s more, South African players, particularly forwards, are bigger, stronger and faster than they have been at any point in the country’s history and so possess a greater capacity to inflict serious injury.
It is no surprise that with the forward-orientated approach that characterises most South African derbies a string of talented forwards have already been injured, with varying degrees of seriousness.
Bulls’ hooker Gary Botha injured his collarbone in the opener against the Lions and will be out for another fortnight. Schalk Burger of the Stormers is expected to miss between two to three matches with a knee injury sustained against the Lions. Bulls lock Bakkies Botha is doubtful for their match against the Highlanders as he is being treated for serious bruising to his foot.
However, the most significant injury is that of Cheetahs and Springbok blindside flank Juan Smith, who tore his Achilles tendon on Friday against the Bulls and faces a lay-off of between six and nine months, almost surely ruling him out of the World Cup. Smith, with the intense physicality of South African derbies, won’t be the last marquee Springbok to suffer this fate.
There are still 16 derbies to play in the next four months. Ominously the physicality will only increase the fitter the players get and the closer we get to the play-offs.
When the South African Rugby Union agreed to an expanded tournament they told us it was what locals wanted. Thousands of empty seats at those derbies thus far tell a different story. It speaks of the administrators’ greed and their lack of concern for the well-being of their prime assets.
In signing on for an expanded tournament they showed no appreciation for superior physicality of South African derbies when compared to those contested between Australasian teams. It was a shortsighted decision that has the potential to seriously undermine the Springboks’ World Cup defence.
COMPARISONS BETWEEN THE COLLISIONS IN DERBIES
SA derbies tackle stats – 1054 tackles made @ an average of 132 per game
Lions v Bulls – 70/203
Cheetahs v Bulls – 169/142
Sharks v Cheetahs – 56/110
Stormers v Lions – 152/152
Aussie derbies tackle stats – 1028 tackles made @ an average of 128 per game
Rebels v Tahs – 138/119
Rebels v Brumbies – 214/73
Tahs v Reds – 156/120
Reds v Force – 112/96
NZ derbies tackle stats – 816 tackles made @ an average of 136 per game
Landers v Chiefs – 147/184
Blues v Crusaders – 82/118
Canes v Highlanders – 121/164
SA derbies ruck cleans (own ball and counter rucking)
Lions v Bulls – 261 and 43/ 129 and 104
Cheetahs v Bulls – 251 and 103/ 271 and 69
Sharks v Cheetahs – 184 and 23/ 93 and 78
Stormers v Lions – 218 and 76/ 259 and 64
Aussie derbies ruck cleans (own ball and counter rucking)
Rebels v Tahs – 194 and 53/ 178 and 55
Rebels v Brumbies – 107 and 97/ 315 and 45
Tahs v Reds – 166 and 72/ 263 and 70
Reds v Force – 157 and 60/ 158 and 55
Kiwi derbies ruck cleans (own ball and counter rucking)
Landers v Chiefs – 313 and 108/ 201 and 116
Blues v Crusaders – 193 and 57/ 156 and 65
Canes v Highlanders – 236 and 77/ 217 and 108
Follow SA Rugby mag on Twitter
360 Comments
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Show All
1 Mar 2011, 09:41 am
Good article Ryan.
1 Mar 2011, 10:03 am
Having watch Maties vs NMU last night in Stellenbosch in very windy conditions, I agree completely.
A very physical encounter (in part as it was difficult to pass in the strong winds) with both teams seemingly focussing on crashing through tackles (that old South African problem). The other varsity cup games that I saw painted a similiar picture, which just illistrates that the problem is through layers of age ranges and competition. Yes, there have been some good play makers and creative play (in the backline), but it seems that when things get tough, it is crash and burn!
1 Mar 2011, 10:07 am
Although this is a view that a lot of us share, I wish there was a way to quantify the difference between SA derbies and overseas derbies. To be fair, I don’t think the tackle stats is the most appropriate evidence to support this.
Are the Newtons of force really greater when Bakkies tackles Schalk than when Thorne tackles Mealamu?
Do the Kiwis pull out of the tackle a bit at the last moment to soften the blow or does the SA player get a 10% boost in energy just before he makes the hit?
It is undeniable that our derbies APPEAR more violent and brutal. I am almost certain that they are indeed.
But I cannot explain it based on facts.
1 Mar 2011, 10:17 am
the stupidity of this new format will be exposed when they start playing the return games.
1 Mar 2011, 10:22 am
how can juan be counted as a casualty of derbies when he tore his achilles without anyone touching him?
phil waugh out injured(bicept), james horwill out injured(ankle), rod davies potentially out(fractured cheekbone), ed quirk potentially out(broken ribs)
1 Mar 2011, 10:34 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-5:
Agreed. I thought listing the injured players was a bit of a stretch, given that those injuries were a combination of freak occurences, guys returning from injury prematurely and the normal wear and tear of rugby.
1 Mar 2011, 10:35 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-3: I get the feeling that there is just that extra bit of animosity in local derbies, more so than in Australasia. Almost as if every game between local sides is a grudge match for some or other reason.
Thing is, if the “back and forth” on this site is anything to go by, I’m not at all surprised.
1 Mar 2011, 10:37 am
So basically what this article leads to is that we must wait and see as the dust settles and pick our National team from whomever is left standing?
I think we need to put a stronger emphasis on player management this year, as injuries are no doubt influenced by fatigue and wear and tear.
Never been more important than now.
1 Mar 2011, 10:44 am
I thought that the Tahs v. Reds game on Saturday looked the most brutal.
Yip, the NH is laughing it’s ar$e off at this format.
1 Mar 2011, 10:45 am
i’m going to forward this article to tony johnson on the re<union show and ask if he can discuss it at length with his panel. i'm interested to hear what the kiwis think of this so-called less intense nature of their derbies.
1 Mar 2011, 10:51 am
Actually from these stat NZ derbies are the hardest. They make more tackles and hit more rucks. Then us, then Aus. What’s the big fuss?
This is a highly arrogant article. It just ignores the NZ derbies, who are also known to smash each other! If these stats show anything, its that Aus has it the easiest.
1 Mar 2011, 10:53 am
@seamus(seamus)-9: me too, considering the reds came out with horwill, peter hynes, davies and quirke carrying niggles and likely to miss the brumbies match.
1 Mar 2011, 11:00 am
“I don’t have access to technology that could accurately measure force at point of contact”
Everything about that statement is just daft, Ryan. Of bloody course you don’t have access to such technology. But would you believe it, neither does anyone else. I’m not shitting you. No one has such a measuring device. Accurate or not. You are, in fact, operating on a level playing field with rugby writers the world over. Let that set you free.
1 Mar 2011, 11:00 am
Kiwis and Aussie are trained from childhood to run for the gaps and/or try to create these gaps, and they will tend to offload to a player thought to be in a better gap-slicing position rather than just to always hog the ball, run crash-bash and hope that the defence falls away.
1 Mar 2011, 11:00 am
what a joke this article is. And Smith was carrying an injury into the game. Why did Drotske risk his best player?
Ryan write an article about the mismanagement of players and the lack of quality coaches in SA rugby (sorry general statement…there are exceptions) and not this drivel.
1 Mar 2011, 11:00 am
How about doing some real reporting and commenting on attendance figures? Lets look at the Sharks games to start, did more people turn up to watch the Blues?
1 Mar 2011, 11:01 am
It still begs the question:
Why can the Bulls beat the Chiefs by 60 points in a final, but they scrape through against teams like the Lions and Cheetahs, who in turn get hammered by 40 points by those very same Chiefs or Blues or Crusaders.
And I just used the Chiefs as a random example, because it represents a general trend.
No matter how the Cheetahs lift themselves, why can’t the Bulls just pretend they’re facing the Chiefs, and do what they usually do against teams of that level of ability – which is clobber them?
1 Mar 2011, 11:04 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-16: but that was not a “derby”
1 Mar 2011, 11:04 am
I agree, the numbers don’t mean much. I think the difference lies with the intent. There is a difference between targeting a ruck with the intent of providing quick ball or preventing a turnover, and the intention of causing physical harm to an opposition player. Unfortunately the latter is more evident in local derbies.
1 Mar 2011, 11:04 am
Verde catch a wake up my boy … look at the kiwi stats they tackle more and counter ruck more on average than any other conference and you call them soft.
Also their polynesian backs are bigger, stronger and faster than backs from any other conference and when they hit they hit hard … just ask Burger and he will tell you how he cries when they hit him.
1 Mar 2011, 11:05 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-13:
Hehehe!
I love how Ryan has developed this recent trend to debate something – with himself!
Like:
“In hindsight I might have erred when I said blablabla earlier this year. In my own defense, when I said it, gobledykook abracadabra factors had to be considered, whereas now, nincampoop gibberish has come to light.
So while I was right before, there is a valid case to be made that I am more right now. And this is because while I don’t have a magical, force-measuring device, I do need to fill some column space, and having a debate with myself is a great way to do just that.”
1 Mar 2011, 11:10 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-21: Ha ha, exactly.
And the constant reference to mysterious inside sources (and technology, existing or not) is meant to lend an aura of credibility. Like, “well, if there were such an impact measuring device, I’m sure we’d be reading about it here first, because he’s clearly on top of such things”.
1 Mar 2011, 11:11 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-18: Exactly, I would like to see, as the season progresses average attendance figures for local derbies compared with touring sides for each country. I don’t buy this derby popularity thing, not in SA anyway.
So to spell it out for you genius Cheetahs vs Blues which had more attendance?
1 Mar 2011, 11:12 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-21: hehehe just like the time he wrote “olivier’s time is now” and a couple of weeks later he was bashing meisiekind left right & centre!
1 Mar 2011, 11:15 am
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-23: well the Tahs?Reds game was so empty they gave away tickets to school kids, something fishy about Sanzar’s reasoning…i blame Andy Marinos!
1 Mar 2011, 11:16 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-24: well Vrede changes hid mind ad often as he changes his underpant, once weekly.
1 Mar 2011, 11:16 am
“I don’t have access to technology that could accurately measure force at point of contact, ”
I, on the other hand, have access to such technology.
1 Mar 2011, 11:17 am
We are the most unfit and lackadaisical and out-of-shape conference.
1 Mar 2011, 11:18 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-21:
Howzit baby.
1 Mar 2011, 11:19 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-22:
I told you already. Ryan is a Wikileaks insider.
1 Mar 2011, 11:20 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-29:
Hello Dawn.
1 Mar 2011, 11:20 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-8: True.
I think there was talk of Pdv and his team being in contact with the franchises and them having a gentlemen’s agreement to rest players and manage them correctly, but the truth is, he really has no control.
1 Mar 2011, 11:21 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-25: Reds got bashed and bruised in that match. They are carrying a lot of injuries.
1 Mar 2011, 11:22 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-31:
How are you today.
1 Mar 2011, 11:30 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-31: @Dawn(Dawn)-34:
Do I detect a Piet Koornhof/Marcelle thing going on here?
1 Mar 2011, 11:33 am
I must admit, Olivier, Matfield, Du Preez, Morne Steyn and Gurthro, Potgieter and Spies all look half asleep at the moment.
In contrast, vd Heever, Kirchner, Rossouw and vd Merwe look switched on big time.
Seems to me the pre-season was a bit too lackadaisical for some of the big stars, while some other guys are hungrier for rugby.
I also wonder to what extent guys are trying to save themselves for the World Cup, avoiding unnecessary risks. To me that is absolutely the wrong mindset, but Spies and co. look like they’re just going through the motions right now.
P*ssing me off big time.
1 Mar 2011, 11:34 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-34:
So so.
1 Mar 2011, 11:34 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-35:
sies.
I’ve just remembered a particularly nast Piet Koornhof joke
1 Mar 2011, 11:37 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-36:
I think the big players had a slow pre season.
they will improve as time goes on.
if we can get past next weekend then we will be in a great position.
the highlanders will be a much tougher proposition than the last two.
although altitude and the jet lag should do for them in the last 30
1 Mar 2011, 11:37 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-36: Tac for themit could be that the WC is the most important and getting into the team. Maybe they are simply focussing on their main proirity. At the end of the day, you should be smiling. Two away wins, are two away wins, and the Bulls have their 8 points.
1 Mar 2011, 11:38 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-35:
Magtag
Can’t you find a better comparison.
I like Tac. Hy vattie kukkie.
Am all for a bit of cultural exchange.
1 Mar 2011, 11:38 am
@Pinky Kekana kills Beemer buys Merc(gunther)-38: Do share.
1 Mar 2011, 11:38 am
@Pinky Kekana kills Beemer buys Merc(gunther)-39:
While Victor is hobnobbing with business men at Mont Blanc, or attending Virgin Active sponsor awards, the Lions players are doing fitness training, running bleep tests.
Some guys need to refocus on the rugby, I reckon.
1 Mar 2011, 11:39 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-37:
How so?
1 Mar 2011, 11:39 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-36: you think so? hell I think that Ludeke is to blame for the poor pre preparation, lucky for him it is 2 from 2 but it could easily have been 0 from 2.
1 Mar 2011, 11:39 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-41: I like him 2, he’s a Bulls supporter after all.
1 Mar 2011, 11:42 am
@Pinky Kekana kills Beemer buys Merc(gunther)-39:
Trust me, Bulls are only just getting started. One or two minor tweaks and they’ll be back to their best. The fact that they have come away with 8 points is unbelievable considering how shlte they have been.
First and foremost, they have to do something about their loosies, especially with Thompson looming for the Landers.
Pottie and Steggman looking very weak. Play Rossouw at 8 or 7.
1 Mar 2011, 11:42 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-44:
Too busy to focus on the rugby as much as I’d like. And when I do make time for rugby, the Bulls look like they don’t want to be there.
Some serious uitkukking needed at Loftus, I reckon. Guys look lazy.
1 Mar 2011, 11:44 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-46:
Besides. We think alike.
We both said “lackadaisical”
1 Mar 2011, 11:44 am
@Tacitus(Tacitus)-36: Francois Hougaard is going to be hungry for rugby when he returns from injury….we can expect barnstorming performances from him.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.