‘Wait until we use our cheque books’
1 Mar 2011
SIMON BORCHARDT talks to Robert Gumede about investing in the Lions, transformation, and the players he’d like to bring to Joburg.
Why did you decide to invest in rugby?
I followed the Bulls’ Super 14 matches at Orlando Stadium while I was in France last year, and was amazed to see how white supporters were embraced by the black people of Soweto. The last time whites had been in the township they were in Casspirs and now they were drinking in shebeens! It invoked the spirit of Mandela and I decided it should not be a one-off.
Why the Lions?
If I was only concerned about the business side of things – in other words, making as much money as possible – I would have invested in a strong team like the Bulls, Western Province or Sharks. But as an entrepreneur, the Lions appealed to me because they are the sleeping giants of South African rugby. They haven’t won a major trophy since 1999 and lost all 13 of their matches in last year’s Super 14, but that didn’t matter to me. In fact, I approached the union [about an investment deal] after the Lions had lost 32-0 to WP in the Currie Cup.
Are you a rugby fan?
Yes. I was one of the few blacks who attended the 1995 World Cup final at Ellis Park, and I watched all of the Boks’ matches at the 2007 World Cup. My son, Simphiwe, played for the St John’s College 1st XV and he’s a big Lions fan who’s very knowledgeable about the game.
You and another local businessman, Ivor Ichikowitz, have a 49.9% stake in the Golden Lions Rugby Union. How much power does that give you?
It doesn’t matter whether you own 1% or 49.9% as long as you put things on the table that make business sense. The board will make decisions that benefit the business.
Should private investors be allowed to own more than 49.9% of a provincial rugby union?
I’m not going to answer that with a straight yes or no. What I will say is that until we have professional teams that are partly or wholly owned by businessmen, we will continue to lose players to European clubs.
Did you approach Ivor to get involved with the Lions?
No, he invited himself. When he heard about my vision for the union, he wanted to be a part of it. We were already childhood friends and business partners, so it made sense for us to get involved together with the Lions.
How much money have you two invested?
That’s confidential. But what I will say is that we have only used our credit cards so far. Wait until we start using our cheque books.
What role did you play in the MTN sponsorship deal [believed to be worth R20 million a year for three years]?
I spoke to MTN before I approached the Lions and sold them my vision. MTN understands sport and brand building, and is the perfect partner for the Lions.
What do you want to achieve with the Lions?
We want the team to start winning again, which will generate money that can be pumped into the amateur side of the game. We want to attract world-class players to the union while developing the young talent we have. I am a businessman and I want the Lions to be run as a business – a successful operation will help us to retain and attract players, black and white.
Will you be one of those owners who gets involved in team issues, like selection?
No, I won’t interfere with the rugby side of things. I am a businessman who has hundreds of managers running my businesses, and I support them. Why would I do things differently now? The Lions have one of the best coaches in the world [John Mitchell] and we have to entrust him with the responsibility of running the team according to the mandate we’ve given him. It’s up to the coach to identify the players he needs, and once we know who they are, we will go out and buy them. John understands that we want to transform the game without lowering standards, and that black players must be selected on merit.
You’ve spoken a lot about transformation recently. What do you hope to achieve?
People think of soccer as a black game, yet nine PSL [Premier Soccer League] clubs are owned by whites, the CEO of the PSL is white and most of the executive committee is white. The point I’m trying to make is that soccer has moved on and colour doesn’t matter anymore; it’s a game for blacks and whites. Rugby is still seen as a white game and I’d like to help change that. I want us to get young black kids who would normally only be interested in soccer, to be attracted to the beautiful game of rugby.
How do you plan to produce more homegrown players at the Lions?
We’ve hired [former Bulls junior coach] Nico Serfontein to run a proper business-managed Lions academy. We aim to develop rugby in black and white schools and ensure that players are not lost in the system. Soweto primary schools should be playing in schools leagues and we need to make that happen.
How important will Soweto Rugby Club be in terms of producing black players for the Lions?
Very important, but our mandate is to develop rugby in the entire Lions region. We also want to unearth talent in townships like Alexandra, Tembisa, KwaThema and Thokoza, and establish development rugby teams. But all 24 clubs in the Lions region are important to us.
Crowds for Lions matches have been dismal in recent years. How do you plan to get more bums on seats?
People support a winning team so winning matches will help, but there’s more to it than that. The days of a man leaving his family at 9am, going to the pub before the game, returning to the pub after the game, and then getting home in the early hours of the morning are over. Wives don’t let their husbands do that anymore. We want to attract families to Ellis Park by providing ‘sport-entertainment’. Fans will be entertained before and after matches, not just for 80 minutes. The Lions must become a lifestyle brand. We want our traditional white supporters to return and we want to attract new fans, especially blacks who have not supported the sport in the past.
Why do so few black Africans attend rugby matches in South Africa?
Saru and its provincial unions have never targeted black fans, they have just paid lip service. We need to go out to black communities and teach them the rules of the game. How can you watch a rugby match if you don’t know what’s going on? There also aren’t enough professional black rugby players in this country for black fans to look up to. Another problem is that season tickets have always been targeted at the traditional white supporter base, and that has to change.
Would you like to see the Lions move from Ellis Park to Soccer City?
If it makes business sense, why not? At the moment, fans aren’t coming to Ellis Park because of the perceived crime situation and the lack of parking. Fifa said Soccer City is the best stadium in the world. Whites would feel safer attending matches there, and it would appeal to the black market, especially in Soweto. But the decision to move will ultimately be based upon business principles and what’s in the best interests of the Lions’ stakeholders and supporters, not emotion.
Which rugby players would you most like to bring to Joburg?
Frans Steyn [who’s at Racing Métro], France’s Thierry Dusautoir – who was born in the Ivory Coast – and New Zealand’s Ma’a Nonu and Richard Kahui.
– This article first appeared in the March issue of SA Rugby magazine.
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35 Comments
1 Mar 2011, 10:19 am
heehah
1 Mar 2011, 10:32 am
He’d be wasting his money on Nonu. If he’s confident of signing just about anyone by opening his cheque book then why not rather Yannick Jauzion? Has much more variety to his game then Nonu (who missed the last World Cup because… well… he is a one-trick pony).
1 Mar 2011, 10:49 am
wow….exciting times…lions could so easily have been 2 wins from 2 games….cruel game rugby….but i see better things ahead…starting with a lions win fri nite
1 Mar 2011, 11:31 am
They need to be careful of the “money solves all problems” to running sports teams. I hope it goes well for them,as it’s good for SA rugby, but they mustn’t get caught in a bottomless pit of money-spending.
1 Mar 2011, 11:32 am
Loved this article.
1 Mar 2011, 11:33 am
@grant10(grant10)-3: YEs it will be great if they can knock the Blues over. “wait till we use our cheque books” scary statement.
1 Mar 2011, 11:34 am
@BlackShark(BlackShark)-4: Edit: “money solves all problems” approach to running sports teams…
1 Mar 2011, 11:35 am
They have great structures in place so they can readily buy players. Nico Serfontein and Mitchell are essential to this Lions revival. It will be great if they can bring back overseas Boks such as Steyn, Pienaar, Big Joe and others.
1 Mar 2011, 11:49 am
blablabla
wait until we use our chequebooks…
how about we wait until you win a game…
1 Mar 2011, 11:52 am
@iori Yagami(iori Yagami)-8: Agreed. Bringing back SA players would be more beneficial to them than buying foreigners.
1 Mar 2011, 12:03 pm
well said mr gumede and i wish you all the best!
i must say, after watching this weekends matches, that sa rugby is in rude health at present.
now lets see the lions knock over some kiwi and aussie sides!
1 Mar 2011, 12:31 pm
There has been many Pro’s and Con’s leveled at Robert Gumede since him investing in the Lions, but following having read this article I am suitably impressed with his vision for the future.
He comes across as a very astute and level headed individual.
All bodes well for the Lions if he ‘keeps to his word’ – Good luck!
1 Mar 2011, 12:37 pm
Before we look at guys like Nonu and Kahui, perhaps we could lure the likes of Joe van Niekerk, Brian Mujati and Schalk Britz back to Jozi.
1 Mar 2011, 12:45 pm
What worries me is the Cheetahs. Free State/Griquas are a very rich source of talent but lose players becasue a lack of funds. If the ycould retain their players the ywould compete with the best.
If they lose Super 15 status what then. Would rugby in this region collapse and what would be the consequences?
1 Mar 2011, 13:03 pm
Lekka Article , Robert Gumede just gained a lot of respect , hope its not just lip service. Time will tell but already I find myself supporting the Lions as my second team , almost to the point where I wanted them to beat my beloved Stormers
1 Mar 2011, 13:12 pm
this is good, infact great!
this is what you call change in the right direction. even if they fail, im sure the systems in place will strong enough to continue existence.
1 Mar 2011, 13:22 pm
Sounds like a really smart guy. Good vision, good business sense, and unlike Boudejellal at Toulon, sounds like he is confident enough in the systems at the Lions to let the coaches etc do their job and not always be interfering.
1 Mar 2011, 13:54 pm
@Beeno(Beeno)-14:
Yeah the Cheetahs probably needed this more than the Lions , true.
1 Mar 2011, 14:15 pm
Nice read – good one!
1 Mar 2011, 14:40 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-13: why do you want mujati? look what he did to you guys when he left the stormers
1 Mar 2011, 14:41 pm
There has nothing really happened so far to prevent Mr Gumade from ‘using his check book’?
Another defeat this weekend against the ‘Blues’ and the 2011 playoffs are out of reach, it’s hardly a business driven strategy?
More question marks pop up than a Franchise business strategy and management
1 Mar 2011, 15:32 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-5: I too loved this article, and I cannot wait for that cheque book to come out.
We need a good tight lock, a good backup TH prop and LH prop can never have enough of those, a world class inside centre like say Frans Steyn or Sonny Bill, a good backup outside centre like say the dragon Kahui. Hell why not Thierry Dusautoir or Parisse to come in and help out when Strauss and Minnie are away on Bok duty … man o man
1 Mar 2011, 16:32 pm
Wait until we start using our cheque books.
Am quite nifty with the cheque book myself
1 Mar 2011, 16:33 pm
@Seven(Seven)-20: He’s improved tremendously in the Premiership for Northampton – regarded as one of the best tightheads in the competition. And we could use a solid tighthead.
1 Mar 2011, 16:39 pm
Mr. Gumede take out your cheque book and buy Naas Botha as the Lions kicking coach, that should be top of your list.
1 Mar 2011, 16:41 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-23: and candles too
1 Mar 2011, 17:51 pm
Nice sentiments. His son went to St Johns and supports the Lions, I reckon there was a bit of spoiling his son here too. But if it makes good business sense then why not. Unfortunately often the teams with the bucks get the best players, a la Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool. But what he says about bringing families to the games is a good vision, but there are large security problems. More and more I think its time for Ellis park to go and for a Lions rugby ground to be built closer to the suburbs. If you put it in the middle of SOWETO then you will lose the white supporter base over time. There is a strong case to build this stadium on the fringes somewhere of SOWETO and the Southern Suburbs, with excellent access to a freeway. If its built in the North, then its too far for SOWETO fans to travel. Ellis parks environs needs residential upgrading, a development where the ground is now….could be the catalyst for this.
1 Mar 2011, 18:12 pm
afrikaanse gesegde – “een swaeltjie maak nie ‘n somer nie” -
1 Mar 2011, 18:15 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-24: have seen the games, the saints have a very good front row…
however loyalty and committment to your union always pays off in the end…mujati the zim rebel however seems to fall short.
2 Mar 2011, 01:51 am
@Seven(Seven)-29: Loyalty is an often overused word in professional sport.
Teams throw it around when they want to give a player less than he is worth, and players use it when they want to receive more than they are worth.
It doesn’t even have to refer to money. Perhaps he just never felt he truly fitted in with the culture at the Lions?
2 Mar 2011, 07:14 am
I am stoked to see the Lions back in contention. Turn the old school unions on their heads.
I do like the idea of an all african side, great marketing to get zimbos, kenyans, Iv’s etc to watch the game. But to have an all black team might not go down to well with the traditional support, you know the guys that fill the seats.
Good to see a foreig coach shaking up our domkopf verkrampde coaches
2 Mar 2011, 11:23 am
I applaud you Mr. Gumede – for once someone is doing instead of talking. I have said for years that we need to run Rugby like businesses and let stakeholders own the clubs. Look at the English Soccer NH players abilities and chances for national selection.
I would also look into Africa at some of those big guys in Congo, Nigeria and Ivory Coast. 100kg monsters that run like Bolt.
2 Mar 2011, 11:24 am
@Jake_White(Jake_White)-32: Oops. half my comments got wiped out.
2 Mar 2011, 11:25 am
@Jake_White(Jake_White)-33: That would be SARU’s doing.
2 Mar 2011, 11:29 am
@DonutDunning(DonutDunning)-30: I think you’re right there. The culture at the Lions was very exclusive and segregated for too long. Too many similar reports for it to be one-off incidents. I don’t think Mujati felt at home. But things have changed now, with a black man controlling the purse strings and a Kiwi calling the shots. It’s a cosmopolitan vibe up there now, so I think Brian should return and be the tighhead anchor for Gumede’s vision
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