Power and precision
11 May 2011
GAVIN RICH, writing in SA Rugby magazine, says Willem Alberts offers a lot more than physicality.
There is sometimes a tendency in South African rugby for the critics to overdo it in both directions when a new player comes on to the scene. As Nick Mallett once said, too often purple prose is wasted on praise when it is premature, and this can be more dangerous than the castigation that is a by-product of the passionate support the sport enjoys.
So it wasn’t surprising that when Willem Alberts burst on to the Springbok scene last season with two crucial tries in successive matches as a replacement, there were those who wanted to be cautious.
‘For heaven’s sake, improve your rugby knowledge, you can’t just select a guy for the starting team because he finished off two try-scoring movements,’ we said to those who were queueing up to elect the big Sharks flanker as South African rugby’s most important citizen. There was some merit in the caution, as the try against Scotland was the direct result of a poor opposition throw and all Alberts had to do was catch the ball and fall over the line.
It is true that Alberts still has it all to do as an international rugby player, and back then a healthy degree of scepticism was justified. Alberts owed his place in the Springbok match day squad to the absence of Schalk Burger, who was the target of a famous Alberts trademark thumping tackle in the Currie Cup final in Durban the week before the Boks’ departure.
Alberts may not even have been a first-choice player for the Sharks in those games were it not for the injury that ruled the impressive Jean Deysel out of the Currie Cup season and which has kept him sidelined for the past eight months.
But Alberts has followed up his end-of-year tour exploits by hitting this season running, and by round six of Super Rugby it would have been hard to name any other Sharks player – with the possible exception of Bismarck du Plessis – as the franchise’s most valuable player.
Statistics don’t tell you everything there is to know about a player, but in the loss to the Chiefs, when all about him were failing, the figures that were flashed up on the screen from Hamilton made for astounding reading – 55m covered as a ball-carrier and 17 tackles made. And that was when the game was only in its third quarter.
A studied look back at the Test against Wales, where Alberts made his international debut, will also give lie to any argument that he was fortunate to be in position to score his debut try. The reality is that the Springboks were being pounded mercilessly by the Welsh before Alberts came on to the field. It was no coincidence that there was a significant momentum shift at that point.
Alberts didn’t just feature in the try-scoring movement, he was there repeatedly as a ball-carrier, bursting seemingly from nowhere on occasions to take the pass as the Bok forward surges up-field overturned a half-time deficit and won the match.
Quiet and modest, Alberts tried to deflect attention to his team-mates after the game, and on other occasions when he was interviewed on that tour he came across as one of those humble players who doesn’t want the shouting about his exploits to reverberate across the valleys. But he did understand why he is so valuable to the Sharks.
‘The key to my game is my strength in getting over the advantage line, and getting that sort of momentum is a crucial part of the Sharks’ game plan,’ he told the media. ‘Everyone likes to carry the ball, but I’m fortunate in that my attributes make me the player who is given the role of taking the ball up. It fits into the game plan, and I’m more than happy to provide that go-forward to the team. That is my role.’
But Alberts is far more than just one of those lumbering big forwards whose only strength is his physicality. Listening to Sharks coach John Plumtree talk about him, it is possible to imagine that he is referring to a new flyhalf rather than a blindside flank, as ball-carrying ability and timing feature strongly in the Kiwi’s description of the loose forward.
‘Of course, the main reason we brought Willem to Durban was because we knew how important it was to our game plan to be able to develop momentum and go-forward,’ says Plumtree. ‘He stood out for the Lions as a physical presence, and we liked what we saw. He looked a very good ball-carrier.
‘But what impressed me the most was the skill set that he had to go along with his physical attributes. He was far more than just a freakishly big loosie; he was a provincial schools cricketer, so he has great ball skills. I felt he wasn’t reaching his potential at the Lions and I sensed that he could become a much better player with a bit of work.’
As it turned out, it wasn’t just ‘a bit of work’, it was quite a lot of work that was required, and Alberts readily admitted during the end-of-year tour that it was the work ethic of his new team-mates and the expertise of the Sharks’ conditioning staff that turned his career around and started him on the path to becoming a Springbok.
‘I didn’t realise how far behind the Lions were conditioning-wise until I moved to Durban. The Sharks’ fitness trainers Mark Steele and Jimmy Wright helped me a lot,’ he says. ‘It was also highly motivating to work with so many good players who had such a professional attitude and work ethic. Everything was positive whereas previously I had been in an environment where it was mostly negative. After that, once I had become fit, it was just about me getting an extended run so I could pick up momentum.’
Plumtree says that the need for Alberts to work hard was a big part of the discussion they had when he first met with the Sharks’ coaches to talk about a possible move.
‘He needed to understand that while we felt he had potential, he was still far from the finished product we were looking for. The problem was that before he came to us I don’t think he was even properly fit. We needed his buy-in before we would commit to him.
‘With his physical presence he has the ability to get the side across the gainline every time he touches the ball, and that makes him an amazing player to have in the team. But he needed to develop a work rate. Fortunately he delivered on his promise and worked damn hard. In Super Rugby at the moment he’s not only one of the top ball-carriers, he’s also one of the top tacklers.
‘I think that work ethic was always going to come once he moved to us because of the environment he was exposed to when he arrived. When you have other players like Bismarck du Plessis working so hard in pre-season they tend to pull the other guys along. It becomes impossible to shirk because you know if you do you will be letting your team-mates down.’
Plumtree, himself a flanker for the team that broke Natal’s Currie Cup drought back in the 1990s, is one of the foremost experts on loose-forward play in South Africa, so his opinion on what makes Alberts so effective is worth paying attention to.
‘Willem’s skill set comes from him having spent most of his early years playing flyhalf. He’ll tell you that he was a flyhalf up to about the age of 16. Those attributes that saw him play there haven’t left him.
‘But I think what is often the difference between the merely good loose forward and the great loose forward is the timing of the run on to the ball. If you are a player with good anticipation and have a natural knack for getting it right, and time your run on to the ball perfectly, then it makes you a damn difficult player for players to defend against.’
As Burger, who in many senses is the same animal when it comes to the love of physicality, discovered last October in the Currie Cup final, Alberts has something else that many of those players lauded for their skills don’t have.
‘He really likes hurting people; he puts in some massive tackles and it is great to have a player in your team with that physical edge,’ says Plumtree.
With Deysel due to return from his knee injury, it takes us back to a question that was asked before Alberts moved to Durban – why would the Sharks want a player in the Alberts mould when they already have one in Deysel? That question was partially answered by Deysel’s long absence through injury as it would probably have robbed the Sharks of any chance of winning the Currie Cup had Alberts not been on their books.
But as Plumtree explains, it was not just a case of Alberts coming to the Sharks so that he could be rotated with Deysel.
‘Jean is still struggling a bit with his knee and we aren’t expecting him back until after our first bye week [in mid-April], but when he does come back there’s nothing stopping us playing them both in the same loose trio.
‘It’s a long season and Ryan Kankowski can’t play in every game. Willem played much of his rugby for the Lions at No 8 and he likes that position. We have a nice balance to our loose forwards, with Jacques Botes and Keegan Daniel operating as the fetchers.
‘But Jean is a player who can also play in the fetcher role, he really likes attacking the ball and there could well be a role for him on the other flank in certain games.’
Regardless of where he fits in to the loose trio, or the make-up of the Sharks back row, Alberts has proved one of the most inspired buys made by the Sharks in recent years and don’t be surprised if he takes on a leadership role in the years to come.
‘He captained the Lions for a bit before he came to us and he does have natural leadership ability,’ says Plumtree. ‘We haven’t really used him in a leadership role as yet but he is one of those players who has natural onfield leading ability in that the other guys just naturally want to follow him. Bismarck is also like that, a player who sets an example that others want to follow.’
– This article first appeared in the May issue of SA Rugby magazine. The June issue will be on sale from Wednesday, 18 May.
Click here to subscribe to print edition
Click here to subscribe to digital edition
203 Comments
11 May 2011, 06:09 am
He eats Schala for breakfast in fetching, defensice tackles and passing, even a dummy and a few deft inside passes.
How it took him so long to become a bok is a testament to the Old boois club. He was already good enough when he played at the LIONs.
11 May 2011, 06:13 am
Jaun, Alberts, Brussouw and Daniels. Saying that Alberts was not so great at 8. Bye bye Spies met plesies. Needs to get his body position right and learn to bend over an pick up a ball.
11 May 2011, 07:39 am
Very good player, hope he makes the WC squad.
I don’t see PDEV moving away from Schalk, Juan and Spies as loosies.
Personally I would play, Brussow at 6, Juan at 7(or Alberts if Juan can’t mak it ) and Vermeulen at 8.
11 May 2011, 07:49 am
Would be a much better option at 8 than Spies – remember he is playin 7 because of Kanko at the Sharks – he can play 8 and will definately give go forward ball
11 May 2011, 07:50 am
Vermeulen has still a long way to go – he was completely over shadowed by Read last weekend – a good measuring stick
11 May 2011, 07:58 am
@stew(stew)-5:
Measuring based on one game is not a true yardstick, Vermuelen has been a standout the entire season, delivering each week, he has played every minute of every game, the previous one being an especially physical one against the Sharks. Read has had the benefit of plenty of rest.
Also I think “completely overshadowed” is stretching it , I was at the game and Vermuelen did a lot of very good things, defensively he was superb and carried the ball up well.
11 May 2011, 08:00 am
Whats the point of buying the mag if all the articles are posted on Keo?
11 May 2011, 08:05 am
Skulk is a Goneburger.
11 May 2011, 08:05 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-6: Do you want to measure him against average No 8 or the best in the world ? At the end of the day the Read is still a better player , but this does not mean he will not develop in the next couple of seasons …..
11 May 2011, 08:10 am
Horses for courses.
WC will be played in ‘slow’ conditions.
No Spies and Kanko. Please PDV !
Lets pray J Smith fit….if so take the following five loosies imo
Brussow
juan Smith
W Alberts
Schalk Burger
Vermeulen
Bobs your aunt.
Kiwis will sit up and take notice.
Play Plod and Spies in big games its all over rover …goodnite nurse ….6 love…6 love
11 May 2011, 08:12 am
“Willem played much of his rugby for the Lions at No 8 and he likes that position.”
So Plum with Deysel back Kanko can warm the bench for now because he is not really firing like we know he can. Also PDV read this and send Spies to catch and tackle school. Alberts will do the biz for you.
11 May 2011, 08:14 am
@grant10(grant10)-10: i reckon Burger must not go. youknowme Flo is streets ahead of him. Brussow and Flo should be chosen for openside flank.
11 May 2011, 08:28 am
@SHARKattack(mabu)-12: very , very good point….my five only had the 1 opensider, well called….yes…F Louw will give that five chosen more balance…..good call
11 May 2011, 08:33 am
Burger will go, he will go as a utilty loose forward back up, being able to cover all 3 positions, unfortunately Vermuelen will be the one to lose out !!
11 May 2011, 08:34 am
An integral part of The Sharks. He has surprising speed for a big lad and his workrate is exactly what you would expect for a forward. Deysel and Alberts should keep the Bools combo of Bakkies and Spies busy next weekend.
I’d be interested to see if Bakkies gives him any flack in the loose. Clash of the giants.
11 May 2011, 08:34 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-14:
Having said that, as I stated earlier I am convinced PDEV will go with Burger, Juan and Spies, unfortunately !!!
11 May 2011, 08:37 am
Its all about combinations – if PDivvy has half a brain ( much debated) he must try out different combinations during the Tri Nations ….. debating combinations on paper is useless
11 May 2011, 08:40 am
Quite a choice on the loose forward front.
Alberts is one of the guys I would take though.
I fear when it comes down to combos and style of play, it becomes an Ablets vs Vermeulen choice, given that they play (mostly) similar roles in a team.
If Juan is fit then one will definitely stay at home.
11 May 2011, 08:42 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-14: I am afraid you will be right there
11 May 2011, 08:47 am
@At least Os will still wear green (but no gold)(stormersboy)-18: yes….I agree
11 May 2011, 08:48 am
Alberts is a great player, and in SA we are blessed with big athletic loosies!!
Ideal!
Brussow is the man at 6
Juan (if fit) 7 added lineout option
Alberts 8
Schalk can cover all three
Josh Strauss also useful in lineouts can play 7 & 8
Vermeulen 7 & 8
Deysel
Daniles
11 May 2011, 08:51 am
in reterospect….and if i was selector.
Brussow…F Louw
J SMITH / Schalk……Alberts
Vermeulen
With Steggmann on standby if any injuries to either F Louw or Brussow.
And Dewalt Potgieter on standby for any injuries to the blindside flanks.
And kanko on standby for 8 th man.
Spies can go do tv ads for the duration of the WC
11 May 2011, 08:52 am
@Cheetah 4 Eva(Cheetah 4 Eva)-21: that starting loose trio of yours is also my starting trio
11 May 2011, 08:54 am
a bok starting pack of
8 alberts
7 j smith
6 brussow
5 matfield
4 Bekker / bakkies
3 jannie
2 bissy
1 beast
will not be bullied by any team…
11 May 2011, 08:56 am
when choosing a squad of 30….it is customary to choose 5 loosies ….3 hookers and 3 scrummies….
Its damn hard to do ….try it !
There are going to be huge tears….
Some great players are going to be watching the WC from the comfort of there lounges at home
11 May 2011, 09:00 am
6. Ratel
7. Juan
8. Alberts
Springbok loosies. Full Stop.
If Juan not available
6. Ratel
7. Rossouw
8. Alberts
11 May 2011, 09:02 am
@grant10(grant10)-24: Good pack. I am coming round to the thinking of Bekker at 4… with Matfield at 5. Why the hell not.
11 May 2011, 09:07 am
@grant10(grant10)-25: which is why its going Danie Rossouw is definitely going again. he covers lock and can play all positions in the back three of the scrum. so, i think Schalks only bet would be Juan not recovering.
otherwise this dude does not deserve to be there.
11 May 2011, 09:08 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-27: bloody good pack…..kiwis will sit up and take notice. I am always wary of players out of position, but Bekker has made a concerted effort to tighten up.
The advantage we have over the kiwis is our lineouts, that is why J Smith is so crucial to our campaign imo. We need to exploit the kiwis there, as we did in 2009….
Bekker, Matfield, Juan , Alberts will be a very competetive lineout.
I would play bakkies against the Islanders , together with players like Butch, etc….horses for courses…..F Louw , Vermeulen….use against the Islanders….
Against Wales and from the quarters I would use the above pack…Bakkies from bench
11 May 2011, 09:11 am
excuse the elongated post i’m on my mobile…
Brian Mujati
About two weeks ago, I checked my twitter
account and I had all these mentions from
people congratulating me on my
“nomination”. My first impression was:
‘Okay, here we go, another twitter prank is
on and this time I’m the victim’.
So I started weighing up the likely culprits in
the back of my head. If there’s one thing I
learnt since coming to Northampton it’s this:
always expect the abuse. Seriously, all 40 or
so of the boys in this team live for intricate
pranks such as this.
After a cheeky ‘self Google’, I eventually
discovered that this was actually a real
award for player of the year … And I was
actually nominated. Naturally, I had to
assume there was some sort of angle they
were trying to push here.
But, then again, this isn’t South Africa.
Phrases like ‘quota selection’ or BEE don’t
really exist here. This was a real award and
all the other nominees are really good
players (in my eyes at least,) and somehow
I had snuck in, straight through the back
door!
I spent a few minutes trying to weigh up
how I felt about the whole thing. After
much thought, I had to conclude that I
didn’t really feel anything. I wasn’t happy
or sad; I wasn’t excited; I was just the same.
I thought about all the other nominees for a
moment and wondered how they felt. You
have to assume they were all probably
quietly happy with themselves. I wasn’t.
You see, once upon a time I played in a
team full of superstars; it was called the
Stormers. When I arrived in Cape Town, I
made the mistake of assuming that just
because I played with these lads I was one
of them. The prop equivalent of a Luke
Watson, a Jean de Villiers, a Conrad Jantjies
or an Andries Bekker … Haha.
Considering
the trouble Rassie Erasmus went through to
get me into that team, I had to assume that I
was the sh*t too…
Haha… looking back and typing these
stories is hilarious for me. It’s funny
because it’s true. Well, that’s not entirely
accurate … the only thing which is true is
that I actually seriously thought that. Oh the
bliss of ignorance!
It was just an unfortunate period in my life
when delusion had once again defeated
reality. They say assumption is the mother
of all… you know the rest.
Even though
there were good patches here and there,
some cheering and, of course, some booing,
I was eventually brought back down to
earth with a loud bang that almost killed me.
I soon coined my own saying (comedic
patent pending…):”What doesn’t kill you,
sometimes makes you wish it had”
Melodramatic bullsh*t and jokes aside, I’ve
come to a few conclusions. I’m not in the
same league as any of the guys I’ve been
nominated with. The nomination is really
an acknowledgement of the forward pack
that the Saints coaching staff have put
together.
Having my name said in the same
breath as any of these guys is humbling
enough. The dinner is tonight and I don’t
even own a black tux. Finding one in my
size at such short notice is going to be a
ballache!
Funny things have been happening in my
life in recent times. Finally, a bit of good
news my way. As I said earlier, the
nomination was enough. I’m not going to
waste a moment holding my breath. Brian
Mujati … who would’ve thought.
11 May 2011, 09:11 am
The key remains the game plan and who the FH to carry it out will be !!!!
11 May 2011, 09:14 am
@SHARKattack(mabu)-28: ja…i think Danie will be 1 of the 4 locks….Flippie will miss out….as will Hargreaves.
The locks will be …imo….bakkies…bekker….danie….victor
11 May 2011, 09:15 am
@grant10(grant10)-25: True
11 May 2011, 09:16 am
I’d be amazed if Schalk isn’t named in the WC squad. He’s one of the first names they write down. And it’s not like he’s done anything this year to change that view.
He’s been consistantly good this year. Many will say not good enough to play for the boks, but if he was good enough last year and the year before, then he’s good enough now. Nothing has changed in terms of his standard of play, and to be fair to the guy, he has played some blinders this year.
Opinion will vary as to his Bok contribution, but he is very highly rated by the Bok management, and at the end of the day that’s what counts.
11 May 2011, 09:17 am
@grant10(grant10)-29: that said, the kiwis to ok us to the cleaners last year at the lineout…brad thorn & tom donnelly ably assisted by sam whitelock out-thought matfield, bakkies & rossouw
11 May 2011, 09:18 am
PDv may throw a curve ball and pick a guy like Elstadt who had had a fantastic year so far and can cover 7 as well, like Danie.
Just a thought. IMO he;s shone brighter than Flip this year, who admittedly hasn’t had nearly the same amount of game time.
11 May 2011, 09:18 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-30: jeepers….i wonder what Mujati is alluding to Transie…..I would love to have that oke back in SA….does he have an axe to grind with Stormers and SA rugby?
I dont really know the background here
11 May 2011, 09:19 am
@grant10(grant10)-32: Correct. We have some great depth at lock. Loosies? 5 you say? Brussouw, Burger, Smith(if fit), Alberts, Vermeulen. Scrummies Du Preez, Pienaar, Hougaard.
11 May 2011, 09:19 am
Alberts had Bok written all over him 3 years ago already.
Just glad to see a guy who showed the potential living up to it.
No substitute for hard work.
11 May 2011, 09:20 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-31: I hope Butch and Grant….Ruan can make squad as utility back for the 5…2 split in bigger games imo
M Steyn can also go do an ad or 2 with Spies
11 May 2011, 09:23 am
@At least Os will still wear green (but no gold)(stormersboy)-34: Schalk is a trooper.
11 May 2011, 09:23 am
@At least Os will still wear green (but no gold)(stormersboy)-34: true….he will be there..
11 May 2011, 09:24 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-35: yip….for me Bekker is a must ….
11 May 2011, 09:25 am
Loosies playing well this year:
Schalk (yes)
Alberts
Kanko
Brussow
Flo
Duanne
Keegan
Extras
Pierre
Juan
Most likely in PDV mind: (IMO)
Juan
Schalk
Pierre
Heinrich
Willem
Kanko
The rest may be deserving, but are likely to be unlucky.
11 May 2011, 09:25 am
@grant10(grant10)-29: I dont think Flo and Vermeulen should be there. Serious. My opinion though. I get your thinking about horses for courses but there are better horses for that course.
But Bekker could be the next step in lineout evolution… An enforcer/lineout specialist hybrid… Why not… With the players you mention the Boks could have an unbeatable lineout.
Bakkies… Have lost faith in that guy… Not all his fault, but I reckon he has a rep with the refs now. Other teams will target him too… and I suspect quite successfully… Better to take him out of the equation all together…
@justrugby(justrugby)-31: Yeah, you are right.
11 May 2011, 09:25 am
@grant10(grant10)-40:
Agree !!! But I think PDEV will take Morne, Grant to lose out !!! again unfortunately !
11 May 2011, 09:25 am
@At least Os will still wear green (but no gold)(stormersboy)-36: That will be a big pick. Not sure if he is ready for international rugby. Maybe next year.
11 May 2011, 09:26 am
still fascinated with the Mujati thing….transie whats the story there?
11 May 2011, 09:27 am
@grant10(grant10)-40: Butch and Grant…? You are now talking twak… We will see by the end of Super rugby…
11 May 2011, 09:28 am
@grant10(grant10)-40: What about Lambie? It will be a tough pick for the flyhalf berth. With M.Steyn, Butch, Grant, Lambie all possible candidates.
11 May 2011, 09:29 am
Don’t know really, past few weeks he’s looked pretty ordinary….no better or worse than any number of other loosies.
I see him competing with Danie Roussow as a bok squad member because there is the possibility he can cover lock. However, he hardly ever plays lock so quite risky.
Basically, just goes to show that a backrowers performance is very much dependent on what his front 5 is doing for him.
A bit of a concern that he can’t last the full 80 at full tilt.
11 May 2011, 09:30 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-39: Interesting he talks highly about the conditioning at the Sharks…
I wonder if there is a problem at the Cheetahs wrt this… Considering the seemingly constant injuries to their loosies…
Now if Ratel came to the Sharks imagine, like Alberts has, how much better a player he could become
11 May 2011, 09:31 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-45: problem is the 2 nd string team to say play the islanders have to be physical and abrasive.
No use going up against Samoa and Fiji with softies.
Remember plod will probably lead the 2 nd stringers….so we already a man down….throw in a softie like spies, kanko and we looking for trouble.
Physical haardebaarde may be the best option….vermeulen and F Louw fit that desription.
11 May 2011, 09:31 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-39: The man is a hard worker. Some years back I saw him at the gym with some other Lions players. He was working his a$$ off in that gym while the other oaks was ******** around on the circuit checking out the woman. I even had to do some spot work with the guy because some of his team mates were “too busy”. Also a very humble and decent man.
11 May 2011, 09:32 am
imo Butch and Morne will be the FH’s with Ruan a back up. (not my choice though)
11 May 2011, 09:33 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-51: Another loosie that no-one, at least on Keo, seems to talk about is Potgieter… An intelligent player… Would far prefer him being selected than many of the glamour boys that keep getting mentioned.
11 May 2011, 09:34 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-50: I am having serious reservations about Lambie….and I am a fan….but against Stormers and Brumbies I was dissapointed….he didnt do enough imo.
Butch…
Grant
and we all know who PDV wants at 10…..Ruan Pienaar
11 May 2011, 09:35 am
@grant10(grant10)-37: i think he does, the treatment he received from the media with that whole story of his dad “invading” a farm in zim and all that, “quota selections” and maybe the treatment by stormers team who made him aware he wasn’t the shiznit
11 May 2011, 09:36 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-56:
True, if he can nail down a bok squad spot I fancy him as a possible candidate to lead the boks post WC.
He seems to have the iq and likeable personality that I would say is mandatory to be bok captain these days. also, through s14, he will know all the refs, which sounds ridululous but also is very important these days.
11 May 2011, 09:36 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-52: Brussouw needs to come to the Stormers!
11 May 2011, 09:37 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-56: I agree 100%….Dewalt Potgieters problem is he is such a natural 8 imo but having to make way for the biggest show pony in SA rugby currently does him no good.
Dewalt would be a bloody brilliant 8 man…..
Class act….regretfully not in his natural position
11 May 2011, 09:38 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-52:
Yip, Mark Steele, great strength and conditioning coach.
Has done wonders at the Sharks.
11 May 2011, 09:38 am
@grant10(grant10)-53: Vermeulen and Flo… real v’kmaarvoort players… Nothing else… No outstanding technique…
Would rather use Rossouw and Schalk if you want to use that type of thinking … Even Steggman…
11 May 2011, 09:38 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-58: very sad to hear that….very sad….what a pity.
11 May 2011, 09:39 am
Just saw the new Bulls CC jerseys. Very nice. Puma and not Gilbert anymore..
11 May 2011, 09:40 am
a squad of 30 will make for an interesting selection process for the WC teams. balance between backs and forwards will be crucial.
11 May 2011, 09:40 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-58:
come on transie, sure, there is a greater emphasis on scrumming in the uk but generally all a prop does do over there is jog from one scrum to the next.
Would you say CJ is a better player now for instance?
Who was SA’s player of the year last season. Wasn’t Aplon in an award somewhere? Very much doubt he’d slot in somewhere on the uk mudpatches.
Very poor form if his own teammates at wp were bagging him though. That’s rank ameteur.
11 May 2011, 09:41 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-59: Yeah, you’re right. He does seem to have leadership material… Will he take over from Matfield at the Bulls, I wonder?
11 May 2011, 09:41 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-56:
Problem with Pottie is that he is too small to be a Alberts, Rosoouw type 7 and not quick enough to be a Daniel type 6. Also doesnt have the fetching qualities of a Brussouw, flo or Stegmann.
Would like to see him at 8 instead of Spies at the Bulls though. Could be very effecticve for them there.
11 May 2011, 09:41 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-63: Flo is a very intelligent player imo….stormers will struggle to replace him.
Vermeulen has been knocking at the door for 2 seasons now….
Rossow and schalk in the slow conditions would work, but Rossow would be needed at lock in a 2 nd string team…
11 May 2011, 09:42 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-59: He is a very good player but the queue at loose forward for the Boks is packed full it will be tough for him to get a place.
11 May 2011, 09:43 am
@grant10(grant10)-61:
errm, isn’t there a saying that you are only as good as your last or even next game?
The show pony was pretty good against the chiefs, especially as Potgieter was out injured for that one.
I fancy the Bulls for 40+ points this weekend.
11 May 2011, 09:43 am
@grant10(grant10)-70: Stormers must replace him with Brussouw!!! And Replace Ricky with Sarel Pretorius. Stormers can make Brussouw the most paid player in S.A.
11 May 2011, 09:43 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-69: agree John….that Dewalt should be at 8…no doubts imo
11 May 2011, 09:44 am
Vermuelen will just be another addition to the fatboy/plod club. Thanks but no thanks.
11 May 2011, 09:44 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-68:
I think he will
11 May 2011, 09:45 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-39:
True.Had to lose a fair bit of excess weight and up his workrate/fitness.
Now he is reaping the reward.
Easily the best ball carrier in world rugby at present.
The one-two punch-Deysel & Alberts is an awesome weapon for the Sharks.Include Beast & Bismark its damn near unstoppable. Pity there is no variation by Plum gameplan & of course no midfield cut/thrust thus making it all obsolete.
With a better midfield Sharks would be championship contenders…They gave the outside backs.and decent halfbacks who can do the job.
MIDFIELD….how I miss Andries Strauss right about now..(never thought i’d say that)
11 May 2011, 09:45 am
@Hop Hop Spinnekop(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-65: Puma making moves in Rugby. You have a link?
11 May 2011, 09:45 am
@grant10(grant10)-24:
Pretty good choices. Intimidating lineup.
11 May 2011, 09:46 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-72: spies just lacks the ingredients to be a real factor in the slow conditions imo…..work rate is poor, tackles like a lady, and hands let him down too often…
no thanks
11 May 2011, 09:47 am
Flow has deft touches that contribute in a mactch immensely, and is perhaps the most streetwise loosie in the country.
11 May 2011, 09:47 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-73: according to that Sharks Lover a deal is already in place with sharks…for brussow that is
11 May 2011, 09:48 am
@grant10(grant10)-61: Yup, SA’s equivalent of Reade
11 May 2011, 09:48 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-52: this would mean there’s something wrong with conditioning at the sharks with jean deysel constantly being injured too.
11 May 2011, 09:48 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-78: Gimme one sec. I’ll upload.
11 May 2011, 09:49 am
The problem with looseforward selection is that you have to back class longterm, especially in SA where every season you have a new bok calibre looseforward making an appearance. Yes, sure, on occassions some non boks are outperforming the actual bok backrowers.
There are 3 very young looseforwards playing in the bulls vodacom side.Very highly rated,all junior internationals. Van Velze looks the business in particular.
the question is, when do you start to back a new generation longterm.?
Selecting a new 25/26 year old looseforward who has never featured before is very much short term thinking in my opinion.
11 May 2011, 09:49 am
@grant10(grant10)-57:
Another season of Super Rugby before he realises his potential. The kid needs time to adapt and stay in one position.
Plum must not move him around like he has done with many other great talents in past seasons.
11 May 2011, 09:51 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-69: So what you’re saying is that he is an all rounder… I see him as a good link man…
Talking about Alberts, the guy has the 2nd highest tackle count in the entire S15 so far… (1 off the top). The only other Saffa in the top 10 is Whitely…
11 May 2011, 09:52 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-84:
Food for thought. One wonders if they take time to understand why a player keeps picking up certain injuries and working specifically on strengthening that area.
This is where the Aussies are good.
11 May 2011, 09:53 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-87: I wonder how that hand injury is affecting Lambie…..he has not looked to hit the advantage line for 2 games in a row now….maybe it is still ‘ eina’ ?
11 May 2011, 09:53 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-78: Here you go.
Bulls CC jersey.
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?4a2a1d9d32.jpg
11 May 2011, 09:53 am
@grant10(grant10)-70: 2nd string? I tell you what, if the Boks go playing a 2nd string against Samoa and Fiji in New Zealand then they are in for a big shock.
11 May 2011, 09:54 am
things to do
cheers …till later
outta here
11 May 2011, 09:54 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-77: i miss Barrit and Murray.
11 May 2011, 09:55 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-69:
but why are you comparing Potgieter to Albert or Daniels?
Potgieter has been good enough to pick up 2 supertrophys in a backrow combo that nobody rates? I very much doubt the sharks will win it this year, I thought they had a chance at the beginning of the season but not sure now.
The question is, are daniels and alberts dynamic and intelligent enough to be a Potgieter in my opinion?
11 May 2011, 09:57 am
@grant10(grant10)-74:
Problem with Dewalt is that he is undersized. he has no outstanding characteristics to his game barring “leadership” weve been hearing for years. The isnt a bruising ball carrier,isnt a superbly skilled link man,isnt a real breakdown pilferer, not a out and out lineout exponent,not a real athlete neither. He a diluted version of Schalk Burger without the size/physicality. He does a lot of things pretty well but not outstanding in any or combination of any.He has a huge workrate as he gets around but thats a bit of a luxury when impact isnt outright.
Good player just dont think he commands a Bok place even in a 30 man squad.
and at 8,Kanko-Vermuelen are better players there.Add Willem Alberts who can cover 8.Where does he fit in? Dont think he is good enough/physical enough to play 7(blindside)-much like Adam Thompson for NZ. At 6-Brussow,Flo,Daniel are better suited.
So where does he fit in?
11 May 2011, 09:57 am
@Hop Hop Spinnekop(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-91: nice jersey, pitty about the colours, Lol.
11 May 2011, 09:57 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-67: have you been watching Mujati @ Northhampton this season?
11 May 2011, 09:59 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-45: The enforcer/lineout allrounder is not that new a concept.
I can already think of guys like Dan Vickerman (at his peak), Paul O’Connell and back to Martin Johnson, that all filled that role.
To be honest, it’s only really when I started discussing with SA fans that the concept of 4 being the mandatory ‘enforcer’ and 5 being the lineout leader, in that order, ever came up.
11 May 2011, 10:01 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-73:
jeez, the stormers are buying more than the sharks these days with nought to show for it.
who exactly came through the “structures” at newlands.anybody at all.
I still maintain that one of the bulls secrets of recent years has been the number of players who were schooled in pretoria, near surrounds and even affies,just across the road from loftus. Almost a worship like respect for the jumper.
Am sure wp would be that much stronger if more players from bosch,wynberg,bishops and sacs ended up in the stripes.Regrettably, the junior power of rugby in the cape comes from paarl and stellies.
11 May 2011, 10:02 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-95: Daniel is certainly dynamic… and Alberts is a beast with a good few skills that are not really appreciated due to his power attributes…
But Potgieter is another type of player all together. We saw glimpses of how good he can be at International level in last years tests. He is the glue to put things together and does much unappreciated work around the park… The type of player you really miss when he isn’t in the side…
11 May 2011, 10:03 am
@grant10(grant10)-90:
It crossed my mind that in pure desperation Plum brought the kid back way too early.
In saying that Lambie did pull off tackles but I think he wasn’t ready for that game. Plum is putting too much emphasis on Lambie being the ‘wonderkid’ and he needs to concentrate more on that leaky midfield.
My opinion is The Sharks give High Reece his early retirement and bring in my old classmate Sean Everitt to assist in the coaching. He’s doing something special with The Sharks second stringers.
11 May 2011, 10:03 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-77: you miss leya mbongolo s’bali?
hehehe kunzima ngempela masekunjalo
11 May 2011, 10:03 am
@SHARKattack(mabu)-97: I like that jersey. Now MTN must just remove that yellow block around their logo on that Lions jersey and it will also look a lot better.
11 May 2011, 10:04 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-96:
think you are doing what most opponents do vs him, sell him short and underrate him. Alas, the backrow of steggman,spies and potgieter keep bringing home the bacon the past few seasons? How on earth does that keep happining?
@Transformation(Transformation)-98:
addmittedly not, I’d rather spend the evening sawing off my willie with a spoon or watching the Lions.
11 May 2011, 10:04 am
@DonutDunning(DonutDunning)-99: Yeah you are right… But it does take a while for us yarpies and our “rugby principles”… (referencing PdV slaying SBW
)
11 May 2011, 10:05 am
“As Nick Mallett once said, too often purple prose is wasted on praise when it is premature, and this can be more dangerous than the castigation that is a by-product of the passionate support the sport enjoys.”
Lovely!
11 May 2011, 10:07 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-96:
Pretty much exaclty my thoughts in post 69.
Whats your take on the loosies that the Sharks will prob field in 2 weeks. 8 Alberts, 7 Deysel, 6 Botes.
You dont think its a little limited? I think Botes is over, hasnt done anything special for 2 seasons now.
I also worry about Alberts and Deysel playing together. Great ball carriers but if they are matched physically, they have little else to fall back on. Especially Deysel.
Adi needs to play at 13, and man I wish we had Strauss back at 12.
11 May 2011, 10:07 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-100:
You would think the strong schools like Glenwood and Michaelhouse could produce more than just the odd talent like JP Pietersen and Murray.
The Sharks so called scouts spend too much time outside the province looking to poach.
11 May 2011, 10:07 am
Please dont even think any of the Invisible Blesbools loose forwards will be in the team. I would take Danie as cover but the other 3, 1 invisible man, 2 penalty king and 3 the upright man or crying kuun no way.
I think a ot of saffa player should do a stint in Europe. Help them get their bigheads deflated somewhat and learn some new skills many of our players don get.
11 May 2011, 10:08 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-67: Peter Bills: Brian Mujati deserves World Cup chance
If ability alone were the deciding factor in the South African rugby squad for the Rugby World Cup this year, then a player most South Africans have forgotten would comfortably win a place.
Brian Mujati played for the Lions and Stormers before departing for the UK to join English Premiership club Northampton in 2009. He’d won 12 caps for the ‘Boks, admittedly ten of them as a substitute. He was seen as a decent prop, with the ability to handle the ball in broken play.
But Mujati is one of those players who needed to step out of his comfort zone. By leaving seductive Cape Town and going to England, he did just that. And the effect has been stunning.
Today, Mujati has become an integral part of the best front row in English rugby. Together with loose head prop Soane Tonga’uiha and England Test hooker Dylan Hartley, Mujati has formed a lethal combination of scrummaging power and high class technique.
In the recent Leicester v Northampton match, a meeting of first and second in the Premiership table, Mujati helped destroy a much heralded Leicester scrum on more than one occasion. His power scrummaging had the Leicester pack buckling, his strength forcing Leicester’s Argentine loose head Marcos Ayerza skywards.
Argentinian props are not used to such treatment but it didn’t come as a great surprise to Mujati’s boss, Northampton Director of Rugby Jim Mallinder.
Explaining the club’s decision to award Mujati an extended contract which will keep him at the club for at least another two years, Mallinder paid the South African a handsome compliment. “Brian has shown he has what it takes to compete at the top end of the Premiership.
“He has improved a lot as a player over the last year and his performances reflect the work he has put in off the field. But he is still a young man and we believe he has his best years in front of him.”
South Africa have not been as richly blessed for powerful tight heads in recent years as some might have expected. It is true Jannie du Plessis made a favourable impression last year and looks set for the World Cup. But the experiment of moving captain John Smit across from hooker to tight head prop reflected the Springboks’ deficiencies in that department.
BJ Botha, now with Ulster, was seen as an efficient tight head, but hardly lethal. Indeed, the ‘Boks have not had one of those for quite some time.
But selecting Mujati as a member of the squad would enormously enhance the Springboks’ scrummaging power at this year’s World Cup. And as the ‘Boks showed against England at Twickenham last November, that area remains crucial even in a modern game where faster, more open play is hugely encouraged by the new law interpretations.
At 26, Mujati has made such progress that he looks technically equipped now to make much more of a success at Test level than he ever managed before. And as Jim Mallinder says, he will almost certainly get better.
But the 1.81m, 118kgs prop has already made some very eminent British scrummaging judges sit up and take notice. It’s a shame the Springboks will almost certainly ignore the evidence before their eyes.
I find that hard to understand. Sure, De Villiers has said he wants to pick only players who are playing their domestic rugby in South Africa. But that policy is already flawed: he has chosen Frans Steyn as full-back, even though the ex-Sharks man is at Racing Metro, the Paris club.
And under an ANC Government in South Africa which is constantly grumbling at the lack of true integration in South African Test rugby sides – i.e. the limited number of black players in the Springbok team – here is one who fully stands up to scrutiny as to whether he is good enough.
You would hope for Brian Mujati’s sake that his excellence and his considerable efforts since he arrived in the UK would be recognised by his own national selectors this year. But I’m sure he isn’t holding his breath in anticipation.
11 May 2011, 10:09 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-109:
yip, if newlands was in paarls or dorp street stellenbosch. WP would be a different kettle of fish altogether.
11 May 2011, 10:10 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-109: Murray… Westville Boy… JPP originally from Witbank I think, believe it or not.
11 May 2011, 10:10 am
@Hop Hop Spinnekop(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-85: Thanks.@grant10(grant10)-82: Damn pity.
11 May 2011, 10:12 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-113: JPP Originally from Stellenbosch moved to Witbank during High school.
11 May 2011, 10:12 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-109: did JpP go to glenwood?
11 May 2011, 10:12 am
@KevinRack(KevinRack)-110:
going to be humble pie when the bulls fold your boys in a couple of weeks.
11 May 2011, 10:12 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-113:
I thought Murray was Headboy at Glenwood no?
11 May 2011, 10:13 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-116: No.
11 May 2011, 10:15 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-111: Yeah but you don’t realise that the English press are doing the hype thing with Northampton similar to the Cape based press with the Stormers… The similarities are also astounding, Northampton have won farkall too…
They haven’t won the Heineken Cup yet… Heck they haven’t even won the Premiership yet either.
Mujati has done okay… Nothing more.
11 May 2011, 10:15 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-119: i’m kinda confused by Great White Shark’s post, so both Murray & JpP didn’t got to either Glenwood or Michaelhouse
11 May 2011, 10:16 am
@Hop Hop Spinnekop(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-104: Really? I think the yellow block and yellow numbers sort of give them a championship feel….like gold numbers.
11 May 2011, 10:16 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-120: did Mujati not displace Euan Murray in that frontrow?
11 May 2011, 10:16 am
Westville. Yup you’re right.
Jeez where are our other homegrown players….
11 May 2011, 10:17 am
next thing you know Brock Harris will be Transie’s favorite as bok prop.
If THat happens…..I’ll just go and top myself!
11 May 2011, 10:18 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-115: Yup, born there… But all he knew about rugger was taught to him on the highveld… He was then refined and made into a great player in Durbs.
11 May 2011, 10:18 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-118: No.
11 May 2011, 10:18 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-121:
I’m definitely one of the 90% that knows faaarkall about rugby…;-)
11 May 2011, 10:20 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-107: Mallet sounds suspiciously like a keo headline writer.
11 May 2011, 10:20 am
Stormers team:
15. Conrad Jantjes 14. Gio Aplon 13. Jaque Fourie 12. Jean De Villiers 11. Bryan Habana 10. Peter Grant 9. Ricky Januarie 8. Duane Vermeulen 7. Francois Louw 6. Schalk Burger (C) 5. Andries Bekker 4. Rynhardt Elstadt 3. Brok Harris 2. Deon Fourie 1. Wicus Blaauw
Reserves: 16. Tiaan Liebenberg 17. Steven Kitshoff 18. De Kock Steenkamp 19. Anton Van Zyl 20. Dewaldt Duvenage 21. Lionel Cronje 22. Juan De Jongh
CJ out injured, Januarie and Duvenhage rotated.
11 May 2011, 10:22 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-123: Murray was once good… but he is long downhill… Newcastle player now.
But if you want to lap up the English press then go ahead… They believe Schalk Brits should be the Bok hooker too….
11 May 2011, 10:23 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-122: The numbers look good but the block around the logo is a no no.
11 May 2011, 10:27 am
If Divvy has any sense at all, he’ll start with Alberts – either at 7 or 8. And if Smith is fit, then it must be Alberts at 8. Currently I reckon it’s a toss up between Flo and Brussow at 6. Let’s see how the rest of the S15 pans out.
11 May 2011, 10:27 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-124: England, Australia, Ireland…
11 May 2011, 10:27 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-120: you mean like this article on Willem Alberts when the Sharks haven’t won the Super Rugby comp?
i get it
11 May 2011, 10:28 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-130: Elstadt to possibly make an appearance on flank this weekend. Interesting.
11 May 2011, 10:29 am
@Hop Hop Spinnekop(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-132: Agreed.
11 May 2011, 10:30 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-135: Sharks won a CC with Alberts, Alberts has played excellently for the Boks already… Very different.
It aint working…
11 May 2011, 10:30 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-124: you don’t have them, only Lambie & maybe Hargreaves, otherwise you’re poaching other high schools
11 May 2011, 10:31 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-134:
Fully.
11 May 2011, 10:31 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-138: ask Bryce_in _Oz, currie cup is kak
11 May 2011, 10:31 am
Bekker needs a rest on this tour. probably against the Brumbies or Rebels.
11 May 2011, 10:31 am
stormers bench has no looseforward cover….
Okay…Elstaht can shift across if neccessary.
anxiety attack abated a bit!
11 May 2011, 10:33 am
would Mujati be interested in playing for boks ?
11 May 2011, 10:33 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-125: Brok the Rock is soft as baby doo doo…the only loosehead Brok chows is Smit.
11 May 2011, 10:35 am
This debate about poaching is getting old. Rugby is becoming professional now, teams can buy who ever they want.
11 May 2011, 10:36 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-141: Jeez you acting like a little mamparra in a playground shouting piepieyakho to anyone who wants to listen…
Outtahere for now…
11 May 2011, 10:37 am
@grant10(grant10)-143: Means Koster is still injured. Stormers loosies also need rest, will be great if Elstadt shifts there during 2nd half.
11 May 2011, 10:38 am
Is Steven Kitshoff the Ginger Ninja?
11 May 2011, 10:39 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-146: Great White Shark brought it up, i don’t know maybe to brag about the quality in their schools when in fact he should be lamenting the paucity of talent…
11 May 2011, 10:39 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-131: ha ha…Brits as Boks hooker, the pom press overhype a lot of shite especially if they think mujati deserves a Bok spot fk that. mujati must head back to his stolen farm or stay up north.
11 May 2011, 10:40 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-147: no that’s what you do here everyday
11 May 2011, 10:40 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-148: koster and cj will be ok for blues game apparently.
Ruan Pienaar may also be vailable for Blues game if loan deal comes off and Leinster beat Ulster on Fri nite….
Some serious rotation will have to take place as well….
vermeulen….f louw…bekker …all need a rest….
cant see it happening in games against Blues either….
maybe in aussie
11 May 2011, 10:44 am
@grant10(grant10)-153: Thats good news. yip said the same thing, major rotation against Brumbies and Rebels. Blues game is vital.
11 May 2011, 10:44 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-150:
Are you twisting my post? I asked where KZN rugby talent is.
11 May 2011, 10:57 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-150: Thats a futile exercise….everyone knows WP has the best school talent
11 May 2011, 11:10 am
I guess the Tri nations squads will give us a fairly good idea of which way his thinking is leaning,
Alberts will be in the mix for sure, not nescessarilt to start, but likely off the bench.
Pierre’s form for the reamainder of the season will be crucial too, PDV is looking for an excuse to pick him.
11 May 2011, 11:13 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-155:
11 May 2011, 11:15 am
Alberts must be in the run on side for the Boks, either at 7 or 8. Stubborn selections for WC could cost us the title. Old out of form players should be dropped from the team and there are quite a few of them. Experience is good but why not have a mix.
11 May 2011, 11:15 am
@At least Os will still wear green (but no gold)(stormersboy)-157: Pierre had an outstanding EOYT – getting MOM against Ireland…pdv won’t drop him
11 May 2011, 11:20 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-160: Agreed. He is a big favourite of PDV.
11 May 2011, 11:27 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-160: That’s pretty much what I was trying to say.
Schalk is likewise a favourite and will in all likelyhood play too.
11 May 2011, 11:39 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-160: As a Bulls fan i would love to see Spies dropped from the Bulls and Boks, he is not a loose forward, maybe the Bulls need to try him at center to try use his strength and size to break the line at pace rather than what he does now.
11 May 2011, 11:54 am
Power and Precision?
Are we talking loose forwards or DIY tools?
11 May 2011, 11:56 am
Either way, barring injury or a freak yachting accident, Spies and Burger will be going to the World Cup.
11 May 2011, 11:59 am
@gunther is pretending not to be married to Sheryl Cwele but is enjoying the free drugs(gunther)-165: Both can be arranged.
11 May 2011, 12:01 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-163: but you cannot discount the great performances he had on the eoyt…
11 May 2011, 12:02 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-166:
let me guess.
concrete rugby boots at the bottom of Bruma lake?
you are so joburg.
11 May 2011, 12:06 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-96: Ask yourself this.
Potgieter consistently keeps Danie Rossouw, whom everybody rates as an Alberts type ball-carrier *** line-out option loosie, out of the Bulls starting line-up and has done so for 3 seasons. Why, is all I ask?
Remember this. Heynecke Meyer has long been on record as a guy who rates size highly, and Ludeke has the same view as a disciple of Meyer’s. Now again I ask, why is Potties consistently regarded by these two as number one choice?
Consider that the Boks, according to you okes have a gameplan based squarely on the Bulls gameplan and if Potties is the Bulls number one having won the Supercomp two out of 3 years, why is he slated on this site. He is the same length as Alberts, and yes he does give away 12 kg’s agains Alberts, but I respectfully contend that 90 percent of that is flab, whilst Potties probably has the lowest bodyfat percentage of any forward in SA.
Consider that the Bulls have a Victor Matfield and Bakkies and Guthro and Spies and Danieand Flip as Supersubs and use them as ball-carriers, and can’t even do justice to the ball-carrying of these guys possession-wise most games, it surely makes sense not to try and force Potties into that mold as well, but to use him in other roles where they have shortcomings. Does it not then stand to reason that the boks might have those same shortcomings in their game seeing as it is the same gameplan and mostly the same players being employed? Makes you think doesn’t it..
For your info Pottie’s is equal to Juan Smith come line-out time any day and is used as such by the Bulls, whilst guys like Flo, Alberts and Daniel hardly feature in that role, (and when used are no more than 50:50 options), which is vital to Bok rugby as it is the best line out ball to attack from.
Workrate wise the guy dwarfs Alberts, who tends to play in stops and starts and disappears at critical times, defensively he out-does him insofar as he maintains the same tacklecount but out widerin midfield were the lethal runners lurk whereas Alberts makes his tackles around the fringes when the opposition pick and drive and thus carriers have very little momentum, and he does not have to cover so much ground.
I also beg to differ with your opinion about Potties as linkman. In fact he is the consumate linkman, and his option-taking is perfect for the most. Need I remind anyone about Alberts’s brainfart when he opted to selfishly not pass with two open teammates on his outside early season?
And another thing I have picked up is that Potties just does not lose a ball in contact. He has better hands than most Bok backs. Couple this with his leadership qualities and team man approach and I say we could do a lot worse than having this guy in the 30 man WC squad. And where would you hope to meet a more humble and down to earth guy?
Look at how easy Alberts was worked out and isolated by the Saders and the Stormers, and the same happened to the Stormers loosies versus the Saders.
I for one can’t wait for next weekend when the Bulls front the Sharks. I think we will receive some answers then.
11 May 2011, 12:09 pm
@gunther is pretending not to be married to Sheryl Cwele but is enjoying the free drugs(gunther)-168: Does that cesspit still exist? Haven’t they filled it for health reasons, like they did with the Randburg “Waterfront”?
Anyway, I’m not sure which technique I’ll be using. My usual crew are laying low after the Kebble mess. Apparently Bad Brad is in the Delaying & Inconveniencing business. Might give him a call.
11 May 2011, 12:14 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-169: Dewald, is that you?
Actually I’ve long rated the guy. Way above his overrated team mate Steggman IMO.
Just don’t see a place for him in a very restricted tour group.
he’s certainly good enough to go, but I don’t think he will.
11 May 2011, 12:23 pm
@gunther is pretending not to be married to Sheryl Cwele but is enjoying the free drugs(gunther)-164: another attention seeking nick?you need psychological help urgently.maybe this will help in the interim.
Attention Seeking BehaviorsProtect yourself from the bad behaviors of others.
Published on May 12, 2010 by Barton Goldsmith, Ph.D. in Emotional Fitness
When a child is not able to get attention from his or her primary caretakers, he or she will do what kids do and act out by saying or doing something that creates some drama. Children do this because negative attention is still attention. We expect this because children are trying to figure out how to do life, and part of their job is to push the boundaries and our buttons.
What we don’t expect, and what becomes a big problem in relationships, is when adults act out in this manner.
Ask yourself why you need all the attention. There may be some insecurity or self-esteem issues going on for you. This does not mean that you are bad, broken, or evil; it means that there may be a little hole in your soul and you need to spend some time patching it.
The good news is that you can help yourself to heal, but first you have to acknowledge the need.
11 May 2011, 12:25 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-167: One swallow does not a summer make, there have been too many no shows by him on the field for my liking, he’s a wing convert, so he doesnt hit any rucks, he doesnt drive over any balls and he never steal any balls, all he does is wait to test the line from a standing start and he’s not that good at it
11 May 2011, 12:26 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-170:
Really I thought he was still in Murders and Executions.
11 May 2011, 12:28 pm
No player will be MOTM in every game. Sometimes they are off song. Overall, Alberts is the best 7 we have in the country. I’d also pick him at 8 if the choice was between him and Spies.
11 May 2011, 12:29 pm
@gunther is pretending not to be married to Sheryl Cwele but is enjoying the free drugs(gunther)-174: With a sideline in Mine access control…
11 May 2011, 12:33 pm
@Tecumseh(Tecumseh)-172:
I have no idea what you are talking about.
11 May 2011, 12:35 pm
@At least Os will still wear green (but no gold)(stormersboy)-171: Wish I was. Wouldn’t say no to that paycheck, I reckon But seriously, the guy deserves to be there on merit, but as you say probably won’t go. His biggest drawback is probably that 12 other Bulls will and P de V has other options in his position. Sad, because he would probably be a shoe in anywhere else.
11 May 2011, 12:44 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-178: Thing is, and I agree with you, but there are others like Duanne, FLO, even Kanko maybe who won’t make the side.
So it’s not like he’s the only one.
We are just gifted in that dept at the moment.
11 May 2011, 12:46 pm
@At least Os will still wear green (but no gold)(stormersboy)-171: Actually we are wrong. Truth is, all he has to do to go is overshadow Alberts and Deysel in two weeks time. Now I guess everybody will agree that if he does that and repeats it in a few weeks time, and he can manage to walz pass the Stormers and Cheetahs loosies as well he has every right to expect a phonecall.
11 May 2011, 12:48 pm
@At least Os will still wear green (but no gold)(stormersboy)-179:
I think part of the bulls problem this year is their lack of ball carriers.
Juandre Kruger and Danie Roussouw should have featured more prominently.
steggers potgieter and spies just doesn’t give you enough go forward.
11 May 2011, 12:54 pm
@gunther believes *** with your sister is a bulls tradition and is very nice(gunther)-168: you need to get a life buddy… other than keo.co.za
11 May 2011, 13:01 pm
Yes, 181, I guess, like Danie did against the Chiefs. No extra go forward, no physical contribution in the rolling mauls. Go look see, he was a passenger, and he actually seemed a little out of his depth, to the extent that I was disappointed in him, being one of my big heroes.
11 May 2011, 13:03 pm
@Tecumseh(Tecumseh)-182: I take it you disagree about the poodle thing then.
11 May 2011, 13:04 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-169:
Point one:
The Bok gameplan is not completely based on the Bulls blueprint and even so it doesnt give precedent that Pottie’s should be chosen or the whole team should have a Bulls feel about it.The Saders teams of the past have been successful in Superrugby but theyve never completely been an AB team and never has a AB loose trio been completely Sader-like.Especially in the earlier yrs where Saders were all too dominant under Deans-6.Thorn 7.McCaw 8.Tuiali’i…..That hardly made Ab’s chose them in unisen And the assertion that 90% of that bulk he give away is all speculation so lets stay away from making open ended statements as fact.
Point 2.
Looking at the Bok dynamic that is being proposed,the are mostly specialist and in Bulls he mostly makes up for Spies’s shortcomings especially on the tackle and cleaning front.That isnt the same dynamic as the Boks where with a loose trio of possibly Brussow/Juan/Alberts there is no such shortfall.All fulfill their roles and the balance is much better than Bulls.Add to that the athleticism if Sharks frontrow especially Bismark and Beast in comparison to Guthro/Greylin & Botha,its almost chalk and cheese.So no Potgieter doesnt fit there in my opinion.And with Burger on the bench even more so.
Point 3
The assertion that Potgieter is same quality of lineout exponent as Juan Smith who is the best in the world inat blindside role and has superior length,size & experiemce to Potgieter is a fable as best even the most ardent of bull fans may differ there.And Alberts has played lock at Superrugby level and CC so he is a viable lineout option.was used there for Boks in EOYT quite well when he came on.
Point 4
I did concur that Potgieter does have an higher workrate than Alberts and a lot of the other loosies.But to use the word “dwarf s”is a hyperbole with little merit especially when you see that Alberts has the second highest tackle rate in entire Super 15 tournament.With Whiteley on other SA loosie in equation,where is your beloved Potgieter?? And Potgieter never stops runs behind the advantage line as he isnt as impact-full in the collision point especially around fringe areas where for a FLANK its in handbook its one of his primary roles.Wider channel tackling is mostly done on scrambling defense & loosies all come into this situation most notably the 8.
Point 5
Linkman.Never said he isnt one just stated he isnt the standard.In my view Kankowski is the best in the country in that role and has the real and athleticism that Potgieter doesnt and allows him to flourish there.Also it depends what role your 8 going to play and with the slower pitches down under especially around WC time the ball carrying-over the advantage line 8 is more suitable for such.Which potgieter isnt and Alberts is. Also the Ozzies and AB’s will employ such eg: Palu & read equally adept in those qualities. And qouting one example out of the DOZENS where Alberts has excelled is quite juvenile and is only an subset of the entire package.
Point 6
Potgieter does have a great pair of hands and fairly accurate in contact thus not losing ball there.But neither does Alberts nor Smith nor Brussow.Kanko has improved greatly there this season.Rossouw has a problem there at times but he covers 4/5/7/8 at international level where its invaluable thus trumps a lot of the players in squad valuation selection.And Im sure Potgieter is a great leader but he isnt in leadership role in Boks as he still cant cement even a squad place and there are enough leaders in team with more than enough caps and captains in extended squad. yes he is a nice bloke,but thats not a prerequisite to selection.
Point 7
As for being isolated by Saders and Stormers-the Sharks limited gameplan played it part in that.Add to that Alberts was immense vs Stormers last yr in kingsPark and vs saders he was one of the shining lights in performance at Twickers. How about Potgieter in many of the subpar performances by Bulls? namely Highlanders where he was outplayed by Soakai an unknown or vs Force where without Pocock they were dominated by diluted Brown.Or was completely outplayed by Flo as well vs Stormers???
We shall indeed see next weekend.Will be watching the loose fwd battle with interest.
11 May 2011, 13:11 pm
@MacToogie(MacToogie)-173: I agree. If he was a tad quicker off the mark,could step, had hands and could tackle, he would have been a perfect 13, but then that is true about every other current rufby player in SA. Such a waste.
11 May 2011, 13:24 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-180: Well I’ve always said let’s pick the team in August not March, but I’m pretty sure that there are only a handful of spots that have not yet been allocated.
But yes, he could still make it.
11 May 2011, 14:03 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-169: You see, this is why I don’t visit this site so often. Your entire post is a bloody hyperbole! I have never denied the merits of Alberts and cannot for the life of me understand why you deem it necessary to take me on about what I have said to the almost rabid extent that you do.
I have conceded that Potties will probably not make the cut because PdV has other options. Truth be told, if he were to get playing time there, I, like many others on this site believe that Potties will be a classic 8 in the mold of Morne du Plessis and Gary Teichmann, both of whom were childhood heroes of mine. Need I remind you that he is not smaller or shorter than the great Zinzan Brooke, so for what it is worth, I don’t really subscribe to the size conundrum either. But alas he, in the interests of the team dynamic at the Bulls, has to play behind Spies who is the Bok incumbent. Cudos to Potties that he is willing and able to.
Have you ever stopped to think that it would be quite easy for the guy to put on the extra weight to close the gap between him, and the other heavies, and for the Bulls to assist him via their physio in doing so if they felt they needed that? But then he would just be another one of the heavies, one of many.
Instead, he has opted to be his own man and compete with the best at the highest level, which is something worth appreciating instead of the continuous slating he is subjected to from provincially blinkered bloggers on this site.
I have had occassion to meet the odd coach and international player in my time and each and every one only has the highest regard for this guy and his game, and in fact most are in fact envious of the Bulls, but that’s their problem. Funny that three of those are currently coaching S15 teams in SA. Makes one think.
And all this talk about Brussow on his way to the Sharks, or them courting him, confirms what I have already known for a long time. Even the Sharks themselves aren’t happy with what they have at the moment, and what message does that send to the incumbents there, because Brussow and his ilk will sure as hell not be prepared to warm the bench when he rocks up there. It sure as hell has nothing to do with depth, that’s for sure.
My point being? There are far too many facets to looseforward play to run to the book for black and white support of an argument when the entire game is grey.
It is all about combinations gelling with the coaches vision to put the cups in the trophy cabinet. The Bulls have three to back up their argument. How many does your team have? With that I am not saying they have it all figured, no not all all, but they, and their combinations of resources within their team, are doing something right, don’t you think?
So I reckon it would be fair to say that there won’t be too many tears shed in Pretoria if our magic man doesn’t get that phonecall either.
11 May 2011, 14:06 pm
@Tecumseh(Tecumseh)-182:
jail time is inevitable for you.
11 May 2011, 14:36 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-169: you make some incredibly good points….I agree with a helleva lot you say.
11 May 2011, 14:45 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-188: potties at 8 would be a huge bonus for bulls……and open up options for boks
11 May 2011, 15:29 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-188:
Bud first and foremost you are the one who chose to take me on in such a vehement fashion, writing a post that long and dissecting every point while using hyperboles at will. Im just responding to that post.
Never saw du plessis play but Teichman and Brooke were favourites of mine.But that was 11-13yrs ago.The game and its pace & physicality and requirements has changed a fair bit especially loosies. So to use the same standards especially regarding size is debatable. But i get your point
Courting Brussow i never spoke about but most unions in SA knocked on his door when he was rumoured to be close to end of contract at free State. Its not about not being happy with what Sharks have,its always striving to BETTER the dynamic. Brussow is the best pure openside flank in the country. Even Bulls expressed some interest but werent willing to spend that type of money. Even with Lionel Mapoe a few months ago they did the same even with up & coming talent in their ranks in Hougaard/Helberg and Van den heever & Ndungane in mix. Its all about making team BETTER and expanding quality of team.
Not personally attacking you or Potgieter.Far from that,Im disputing and debating some of the reasons presented.
No tears expected from my side in terms of bulls country regarding non call for their man.
11 May 2011, 20:06 pm
@grant10(grant10)-191: Thanks for the words of support. Nice to know I’m not the only voice of reason out there. I also agree with some of what Mshiniwami said above, but not in the way he would expect.
I have done a lot of thinking about the modern game and I come back to the same question every time.
Why does McCaw enjoy the longevity in the game that he does? He is not the world’s best fetcher, or carrier, or defender, or line-out option, or distributor or linkman, whatever. No, he is none of that, because he is not a specialist.
But what he does so well is to do what the situation in front of him requires, and intuitively so. He doesn’t have to think, he simply acts, and then I got to realizing something else. That is exactly what Potties does.
Yes Brussow is a better fetcher and Alberts a better carrier and Juan Smith may be a better line-out option and Schalla might be a better tackler and Spies might be faster and Kanko might have a better step, but he still does all those things very well- in fact better than most, and more importantly he does all of them combined at a higher level than anyone else, and he can do them instinctively as and when required. He is the closest thing we have to McCaw. Add in his workrate and I know what I see in him- the best darn generalist we have playing the game in this country.
Problem is in SA we like to put players in boxes. Maybe I’ve made the same mistake, seeing him as a tackler who can mix it up a bit.
Maybe we , I included, underestimate his ability to read the game, and maybe it is not just the number of tackles, but when and where they are made relative to play that is important. He does seem to pull off many of those high value tackles which, if not made, inevitably lead to tries.
Maybe Jake White had a point about fetchers. I am asking myself why the Boks seem to ultimately lose games where we deploy a dedicated fetcher, although the latter comes out smelling of roses in spite thereof, while we win those where we play Schalla and Smith together.
I wonder if that might not be an interesting analysis that one of the stats boffins can make.
Are we not so spoilt for choice amongst the specialists we have in the S15 that we discount the true value of a generalist, and thus get our knickers in a knot when we play against a team that has at least one really good high workrate generalist. like the Saders.
Are we not polarizing our play and becoming even more stereotype than what we realize? For some or other reason the Boks can only attack to the right with their backline. Ever wondered why? And is it a co-incidence then that the Stormers and Boks centres are the same guys, and the Stormers seem to display the same affliction? And no, I’m not saying the problem is with the centres. The problem is, Scalla doesn’t fetch or compete the ball anymore, he stands out in the backline more often than not and he plays off 6, so there is no good, quick ball coming available when play occurs on the righthand side of the field to attack with. Even their own ball is slow to become available.
I’m saying the problem lies with the loosies and how they dovetail.
11 May 2011, 20:20 pm
@grant10(grant10)-191: I agree about Potties at 8 Funny thing is the Bulls have currently got 4 SA Schools 8′s on their books and they are all in a bottleneck behind Spies, who is struggling. Crazy.
11 May 2011, 20:51 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-193:
Very interesting view, lots of room for thinking and debate, well put !!
Good rugby post !
11 May 2011, 21:13 pm
@Ogre(Ogre)-193: Bloody good post! Yup, the pigeonholing is a problem…
11 May 2011, 21:37 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-195: Don’t get me wrong here. I’m not knocking Schalla, I’m just saying often players get suckered by circumstance, like selection pressure, into trying to fix something that aint broke. It’s not that he can’t, it’s just that he doesn’t fetch when it’s on anymore. He has put a lot of focus into trying to carry and defend, which he obviously feels are his stronger suites where he can compete with someone like Alberts, whom he sees as a threat, especially after the CC final last year, but to do that something had to give, so he played to the ball far less to buy some extra time and get into position to carry quickly.
I suspect that at some point this year Potties also tried this and carried more often than the situation dictated was necessary for HIM to carry, but reverted to his own game when he saw the folly of that approach. I note that his game has its old balance back, which got him noticed in 2009 and 2010.
Just my view.
11 May 2011, 21:46 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-196: Think about it. Come WC time it will be raining almost every day down under. You know what that means.
12 May 2011, 04:19 am
@Ogre(Ogre)-198:
Some very good posts above… imo the most important aspect of loose-forwards is selecting the correct balance… not what one perceives each trio ‘should’ include (eg a fetcher an uncompromising blind-sider an elusive powerful speedster… or any mix of the above)…
The Stormer’s are a case in point of finding the correct balance despite being quite an unconventional mix on top of their obvious physicality… and the results have followed within their game-plan…
Neither Schalk nor Flo are outright fetchers… but both do pilfer ball when in the tackle-zone… none of the trio are speedsters… but Schalk’s hands are now on par with many centres… Vermeulen still runs too upright… however he’s the only RSA forward that leg-drives in the tackle…
Every negative out-weighed with a positive… and the results speak for themselves this season and last.
Bulls just seem to lack that balance (yet Ludeke persists)… and methinks it’s the same for the Boks of late…
12 May 2011, 04:52 am
Interesting, I never realised he was an ex-flyhalf. That explains some of those chips he puts in when he’s broken into space.
12 May 2011, 08:27 am
@Ogre(Ogre)-169: Interesting. It will surely be a tough pick for the loosies for the WC.
12 May 2011, 08:53 am
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-199: Have some sympathy for Ludeke. He has inherited an ageing team of stars from HM which he has had to draw the best out of whilst he puts his own succession plans and structures in place to carry him into and secure his future at the Bulls. It helped that there are great similarities in their thinking processes and that there is a strong leadership core in the team which he could draw on, and no-one will deny that results wise he has done a pretty good job of it.
Think about it. You have two ageing superstar locks and a 9 that are almost national treasures that have to be nursed until post WC. You inherit ageing loosies in Pedri Wannenburg, Danie Rossouw, Wikus van Heerden and such.
You have Gurthro who needs to be nursed due to his brittle hands/arms. You have a kicking metronome in Morne Steyn who isn’t always so flash in the decisionmaking stakes. You have an 8 who, whilst being some physical specimen has flattered to deceive and can’t claim that his defense or handling skills are on par with international standards. So what to do?
1. You shed two loosies(PW and WvH) that are getting long in the tooth and retread the biggest of them (DR) into a more permanent Mr Physical role to carry ball specificallyas cover for your locks, who are now slower accross the park and tend to spend less time in the rucks and mauls than is ideal. Your succession plan allows you to recruit two young turk locks in FvdM and Juandre Kruger. Between the lot and Gurthro, Gary Botha and Werner Kruger and Spies and Wynand Olivier you have your physicality component and ball carrying sorted.
2. You entrench FdP at pivot as general and mentor to Morne Steyn to take care of decisionmaking, and bring in the next young turk in Francois Hougard.
3. Still you haven’t ventured too far from traditional Bulls rugby and the players mentioned, who can do the thing for you if only they can get to the breakdown on time and keep up with play.
4. Solution. You recruit standout number 8′s, because as loosies go their hands are usually the best, they defend well, theycarry well, are back of the line-out options and they like mixing it up. Also, they usually are the faster loosies and have at least abit of vision. So you take Steggies and because of his low centre of gravity you make him a 6. You take Potties and because of his vision and strong defense and high workrate you make him 7, not to carry and fetch, but to shore up defense and generally put himself about the field to put pressure on opponents. And obviously, you expect him to steal the odd ball and bring the odd bit of magic that can turn games for you. Plus you have 4 other 8′s in Gerrit-Jan v Velze, CJ Stander and Arno Botha, as well as Jonno Ross all waiting in the wings and preparing themselves for their time.
5. This allows your ageing locks to do less running around from ruck to ruck, so they last better because their physical workload is restricted to those carries and cleans they van make and their set phase play.
So that’s the plan, or seems to have been.
What happens? You drop the ball in your first year and end midtable, but you look and learn. The next two years you bring home the bacon. Not bad. No, I think with Ludeke it is not a matter of persisting only, but that he has a plan that has worked for him, a team that has delivered for him and have earned his loyalty, and a nucleus of young but experienced turks waiting in the wings to take over the mantle and carry him forward. I can live with that.
And often in such situations where something works for you, it becomes very difficult to change. Cudos to him for backing his horse. If recent form is any indication it is a stayer, and the S15 is no sprint, so who knows, maybe he knows something we don’t.
12 May 2011, 09:24 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-201: Yes, there are probably as many as 15 contenders, each with his specific merits and de-merits, vieing for five or six squad spots. In the end it is about how the coach wants to play the conditions, and there really isn’t a right and a wrong choice. He has to stand and fall by who he picks.
Assuming Juan Smith out, I would go Schalla, Potties, Flo, Brussow, and Alberts at 8 , with Danie Rossouw as extra 7/8 cover, and remembering Schalla, Potties and Flo can cover all three positions and Alberts can play 7 as well.
Remember, it is going to be trench war in the rain, so you want mongrel and good hands, because to beat the Anzacs you’re probably going to have to defend against a high-speed counterattacking and wider game, while your own attack will be based on a slower structured game and some kicking. You will have to limit errors and defend like Trojans, which is why Spies is not an option. For me the jury is still out on Brussow a little, because he hasn’t played much so I’m picking him on reputation. But that’s just me.
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.