Assuming Juan Smith out, I would go Schalla, Potties, Flo, Brussow, and Alberts at 8 , with Danie Rossouw as extra 7/8 cover, and remembering Schalla, Potties and Flo can cover all three positions and Alberts can play 7 as well.

Remember, it is going to be trench war in the rain, so you want mongrel and good hands, because to beat the Anzacs you’re probably going to have to defend against a high-speed counterattacking and wider game, while your own attack will be based on a slower structured game and some kicking. You will have to limit errors and defend like Trojans, which is why Spies is not an option. For me the jury is still out on Brussow a little, because he hasn’t played much so I’m picking him on reputation. But that’s just me.

Think about it. You have two ageing superstar locks and a 9 that are almost national treasures that have to be nursed until post WC. You inherit ageing loosies in Pedri Wannenburg, Danie Rossouw, Wikus van Heerden and such.

You have Gurthro who needs to be nursed due to his brittle hands/arms. You have a kicking metronome in Morne Steyn who isn’t always so flash in the decisionmaking stakes. You have an 8 who, whilst being some physical specimen has flattered to deceive and can’t claim that his defense or handling skills are on par with international standards. So what to do?

1. You shed two loosies(PW and WvH) that are getting long in the tooth and retread the biggest of them (DR) into a more permanent Mr Physical role to carry ball specificallyas cover for your locks, who are now slower accross the park and tend to spend less time in the rucks and mauls than is ideal. Your succession plan allows you to recruit two young turk locks in FvdM and Juandre Kruger. Between the lot and Gurthro, Gary Botha and Werner Kruger and Spies and Wynand Olivier you have your physicality component and ball carrying sorted.

2. You entrench FdP at pivot as general and mentor to Morne Steyn to take care of decisionmaking, and bring in the next young turk in Francois Hougard.

3. Still you haven’t ventured too far from traditional Bulls rugby and the players mentioned, who can do the thing for you if only they can get to the breakdown on time and keep up with play.

4. Solution. You recruit standout number 8′s, because as loosies go their hands are usually the best, they defend well, theycarry well, are back of the line-out options and they like mixing it up. Also, they usually are the faster loosies and have at least abit of vision. So you take Steggies and because of his low centre of gravity you make him a 6. You take Potties and because of his vision and strong defense and high workrate you make him 7, not to carry and fetch, but to shore up defense and generally put himself about the field to put pressure on opponents. And obviously, you expect him to steal the odd ball and bring the odd bit of magic that can turn games for you. Plus you have 4 other 8′s in Gerrit-Jan v Velze, CJ Stander and Arno Botha, as well as Jonno Ross all waiting in the wings and preparing themselves for their time.

5. This allows your ageing locks to do less running around from ruck to ruck, so they last better because their physical workload is restricted to those carries and cleans they van make and their set phase play.

So that’s the plan, or seems to have been.

What happens? You drop the ball in your first year and end midtable, but you look and learn. The next two years you bring home the bacon. Not bad. No, I think with Ludeke it is not a matter of persisting only, but that he has a plan that has worked for him, a team that has delivered for him and have earned his loyalty, and a nucleus of young but experienced turks waiting in the wings to take over the mantle and carry him forward. I can live with that.

And often in such situations where something works for you, it becomes very difficult to change. Cudos to him for backing his horse. If recent form is any indication it is a stayer, and the S15 is no sprint, so who knows, maybe he knows something we don’t.

Some very good posts above… imo the most important aspect of loose-forwards is selecting the correct balance… not what one perceives each trio ‘should’ include (eg a fetcher an uncompromising blind-sider an elusive powerful speedster… or any mix of the above)…

The Stormer’s are a case in point of finding the correct balance despite being quite an unconventional mix on top of their obvious physicality… and the results have followed within their game-plan…

Neither Schalk nor Flo are outright fetchers… but both do pilfer ball when in the tackle-zone… none of the trio are speedsters… but Schalk’s hands are now on par with many centres… Vermeulen still runs too upright… however he’s the only RSA forward that leg-drives in the tackle…

Every negative out-weighed with a positive… and the results speak for themselves this season and last.

Bulls just seem to lack that balance (yet Ludeke persists)… and methinks it’s the same for the Boks of late…

I suspect that at some point this year Potties also tried this and carried more often than the situation dictated was necessary for HIM to carry, but reverted to his own game when he saw the folly of that approach. I note that his game has its old balance back, which got him noticed in 2009 and 2010.

Just my view.

Very interesting view, lots of room for thinking and debate, well put !!

Good rugby post !

I have done a lot of thinking about the modern game and I come back to the same question every time.

Why does McCaw enjoy the longevity in the game that he does? He is not the world’s best fetcher, or carrier, or defender, or line-out option, or distributor or linkman, whatever. No, he is none of that, because he is not a specialist.

But what he does so well is to do what the situation in front of him requires, and intuitively so. He doesn’t have to think, he simply acts, and then I got to realizing something else. That is exactly what Potties does.

Yes Brussow is a better fetcher and Alberts a better carrier and Juan Smith may be a better line-out option and Schalla might be a better tackler and Spies might be faster and Kanko might have a better step, but he still does all those things very well- in fact better than most, and more importantly he does all of them combined at a higher level than anyone else, and he can do them instinctively as and when required. He is the closest thing we have to McCaw. Add in his workrate and I know what I see in him- the best darn generalist we have playing the game in this country.

Problem is in SA we like to put players in boxes. Maybe I’ve made the same mistake, seeing him as a tackler who can mix it up a bit.

Maybe we , I included, underestimate his ability to read the game, and maybe it is not just the number of tackles, but when and where they are made relative to play that is important. He does seem to pull off many of those high value tackles which, if not made, inevitably lead to tries.

Maybe Jake White had a point about fetchers. I am asking myself why the Boks seem to ultimately lose games where we deploy a dedicated fetcher, although the latter comes out smelling of roses in spite thereof, while we win those where we play Schalla and Smith together.

I wonder if that might not be an interesting analysis that one of the stats boffins can make.

Are we not so spoilt for choice amongst the specialists we have in the S15 that we discount the true value of a generalist, and thus get our knickers in a knot when we play against a team that has at least one really good high workrate generalist. like the Saders.

Are we not polarizing our play and becoming even more stereotype than what we realize? For some or other reason the Boks can only attack to the right with their backline. Ever wondered why? And is it a co-incidence then that the Stormers and Boks centres are the same guys, and the Stormers seem to display the same affliction? And no, I’m not saying the problem is with the centres. The problem is, Scalla doesn’t fetch or compete the ball anymore, he stands out in the backline more often than not and he plays off 6, so there is no good, quick ball coming available when play occurs on the righthand side of the field to attack with. Even their own ball is slow to become available.

I’m saying the problem lies with the loosies and how they dovetail.

Bud first and foremost you are the one who chose to take me on in such a vehement fashion, writing a post that long and dissecting every point while using hyperboles at will. Im just responding to that post.

Never saw du plessis play but Teichman and Brooke were favourites of mine.But that was 11-13yrs ago.The game and its pace & physicality and requirements has changed a fair bit especially loosies. So to use the same standards especially regarding size is debatable. But i get your point

Courting Brussow i never spoke about but most unions in SA knocked on his door when he was rumoured to be close to end of contract at free State. Its not about not being happy with what Sharks have,its always striving to BETTER the dynamic. Brussow is the best pure openside flank in the country. Even Bulls expressed some interest but werent willing to spend that type of money. Even with Lionel Mapoe a few months ago they did the same even with up & coming talent in their ranks in Hougaard/Helberg and Van den heever & Ndungane in mix. Its all about making team BETTER and expanding quality of team.

Not personally attacking you or Potgieter.Far from that,Im disputing and debating some of the reasons presented.

No tears expected from my side in terms of bulls country regarding non call for their man.

jail time is inevitable for you.

I have conceded that Potties will probably not make the cut because PdV has other options. Truth be told, if he were to get playing time there, I, like many others on this site believe that Potties will be a classic 8 in the mold of Morne du Plessis and Gary Teichmann, both of whom were childhood heroes of mine. Need I remind you that he is not smaller or shorter than the great Zinzan Brooke, so for what it is worth, I don’t really subscribe to the size conundrum either. But alas he, in the interests of the team dynamic at the Bulls, has to play behind Spies who is the Bok incumbent. Cudos to Potties that he is willing and able to.

Have you ever stopped to think that it would be quite easy for the guy to put on the extra weight to close the gap between him, and the other heavies, and for the Bulls to assist him via their physio in doing so if they felt they needed that? But then he would just be another one of the heavies, one of many.

Instead, he has opted to be his own man and compete with the best at the highest level, which is something worth appreciating instead of the continuous slating he is subjected to from provincially blinkered bloggers on this site.

I have had occassion to meet the odd coach and international player in my time and each and every one only has the highest regard for this guy and his game, and in fact most are in fact envious of the Bulls, but that’s their problem. Funny that three of those are currently coaching S15 teams in SA. Makes one think.

And all this talk about Brussow on his way to the Sharks, or them courting him, confirms what I have already known for a long time. Even the Sharks themselves aren’t happy with what they have at the moment, and what message does that send to the incumbents there, because Brussow and his ilk will sure as hell not be prepared to warm the bench when he rocks up there. It sure as hell has nothing to do with depth, that’s for sure.

My point being? There are far too many facets to looseforward play to run to the book for black and white support of an argument when the entire game is grey.

It is all about combinations gelling with the coaches vision to put the cups in the trophy cabinet. The Bulls have three to back up their argument. How many does your team have? With that I am not saying they have it all figured, no not all all, but they, and their combinations of resources within their team, are doing something right, don’t you think?

So I reckon it would be fair to say that there won’t be too many tears shed in Pretoria if our magic man doesn’t get that phonecall either.

But yes, he could still make it.

Point one:

The Bok gameplan is not completely based on the Bulls blueprint and even so it doesnt give precedent that Pottie’s should be chosen or the whole team should have a Bulls feel about it.The Saders teams of the past have been successful in Superrugby but theyve never completely been an AB team and never has a AB loose trio been completely Sader-like.Especially in the earlier yrs where Saders were all too dominant under Deans-6.Thorn 7.McCaw 8.Tuiali’i…..That hardly made Ab’s chose them in unisen And the assertion that 90% of that bulk he give away is all speculation so lets stay away from making open ended statements as fact.

Point 2.

Looking at the Bok dynamic that is being proposed,the are mostly specialist and in Bulls he mostly makes up for Spies’s shortcomings especially on the tackle and cleaning front.That isnt the same dynamic as the Boks where with a loose trio of possibly Brussow/Juan/Alberts there is no such shortfall.All fulfill their roles and the balance is much better than Bulls.Add to that the athleticism if Sharks frontrow especially Bismark and Beast in comparison to Guthro/Greylin & Botha,its almost chalk and cheese.So no Potgieter doesnt fit there in my opinion.And with Burger on the bench even more so.

Point 3

The assertion that Potgieter is same quality of lineout exponent as Juan Smith who is the best in the world inat blindside role and has superior length,size & experiemce to Potgieter is a fable as best even the most ardent of bull fans may differ there.And Alberts has played lock at Superrugby level and CC so he is a viable lineout option.was used there for Boks in EOYT quite well when he came on.

Point 4

I did concur that Potgieter does have an higher workrate than Alberts and a lot of the other loosies.But to use the word “dwarf s”is a hyperbole with little merit especially when you see that Alberts has the second highest tackle rate in entire Super 15 tournament.With Whiteley on other SA loosie in equation,where is your beloved Potgieter?? And Potgieter never stops runs behind the advantage line as he isnt as impact-full in the collision point especially around fringe areas where for a FLANK its in handbook its one of his primary roles.Wider channel tackling is mostly done on scrambling defense & loosies all come into this situation most notably the 8.

Point 5

Linkman.Never said he isnt one just stated he isnt the standard.In my view Kankowski is the best in the country in that role and has the real and athleticism that Potgieter doesnt and allows him to flourish there.Also it depends what role your 8 going to play and with the slower pitches down under especially around WC time the ball carrying-over the advantage line 8 is more suitable for such.Which potgieter isnt and Alberts is. Also the Ozzies and AB’s will employ such eg: Palu & read equally adept in those qualities. And qouting one example out of the DOZENS where Alberts has excelled is quite juvenile and is only an subset of the entire package.

Point 6

Potgieter does have a great pair of hands and fairly accurate in contact thus not losing ball there.But neither does Alberts nor Smith nor Brussow.Kanko has improved greatly there this season.Rossouw has a problem there at times but he covers 4/5/7/8 at international level where its invaluable thus trumps a lot of the players in squad valuation selection.And Im sure Potgieter is a great leader but he isnt in leadership role in Boks as he still cant cement even a squad place and there are enough leaders in team with more than enough caps and captains in extended squad. yes he is a nice bloke,but thats not a prerequisite to selection.

Point 7

As for being isolated by Saders and Stormers-the Sharks limited gameplan played it part in that.Add to that Alberts was immense vs Stormers last yr in kingsPark and vs saders he was one of the shining lights in performance at Twickers. How about Potgieter in many of the subpar performances by Bulls? namely Highlanders where he was outplayed by Soakai an unknown or vs Force where without Pocock they were dominated by diluted Brown.Or was completely outplayed by Flo as well vs Stormers???

We shall indeed see next weekend.Will be watching the loose fwd battle with interest.