Cape heavies to stop Bulls at source
8 Jun 2011
JON CARDINELLI speaks to Stormers forwards coach Matt Proudfoot about the crucial set-phase battle and why Victor Matfield will prove difficult to contain.
The Stormers have established themselves as the new bullies of the Super Rugby playground. Only three teams have stood up to them at the collisions in 2011, and in many ways the Reds, Crusaders and Chiefs have provided the blueprint on how to beat the Cape-based side.
While it should be another bloody affair at the tackle point this Saturday, Proudfoot is expecting the Bulls to target the Stormers' set-piece before striving for gain-line dominance. If the visitors succeed in compromising the Stormers at source, they will build momentum and eventually fracture that famed defence.
'There's no doubt in my mind that the set-phase battle will determine the outcome,' Proudfoot told keo.co.za. 'There's no getting around the fact that we have to confront them at the set-piece. We can't allow them to dominate these facets of play because once they build up a head of steam, they're extremely difficult to stop.
'The Bulls have a strong pack and kicking game, and we aren't expecting them to stray from their traditional strengths. What they do, they do well, and with their formidable lineout, they may attempt to maul us in an attempt to get on the front foot.'
The battle within a battle between Victor Matfield and Andries Bekker should be worth the price of admission. Both men are celebrated for their individual abilities as well as their impeccable lineout leadership.
Proudfoot admitted that only so much analysis could be done in preparation for a side containing Matfield, the Springboks most capped and decorated player. If Bekker and company don't anticipate Matfield's movements this Saturday and the Bulls manage to dominate this set-piece, the visitors will make inroads into the Stormers' defence.
'It's going to be very hard to put pressure on Victor at the lineout. He's just so good at absorbing pressure and I'm sure he'll have a few tricks up his sleeve,' Proudfoot said. 'When the Bulls establish set-piece dominance and start to maul successfully, then they usually build on that dominance by carrying the ball a lot more and challenging at the collisions.
'At the breakdown, the defending side will try to slow down opposition ball in order to give their team more opportunity to realign for the next phase. But whether we're on attack or defence, we have to put the Bulls under pressure at the set-piece to give ourselves the best chance of winning the collisions.'
142 Comments
8 Jun 2011, 05:33 am
collision, collisions, collisions dragons…
Man up and that’s half the job done.
8 Jun 2011, 06:47 am
In response to JC’s thread: http://www.keo.co.za/2011/06/07/test-of-discipline-for-breakdown-bandits/ as I wasn’t in yesterday.
SuperSport apparently thought it was 18 penalties to Stegmann by the weekend, and not 22.
Anyway, just using Ruggastats we see the following:
By far the majority of Louw- and Stegmann’s penalties have been conceded at the breakdown (Tackles+assists+rucks). Things such as not releasing/rolling, sealing, hands in, incorrect entry, etc.
Deducting about 3 penalties off of the total of each for those not conceded at the breakdown:
Tackles made:
Stegmann: 226 (51 assists included)
96% success rate. (10 missed)
Louw: 171 (23 assists included)
91% success rate (missed 16)
Breakdown (A+D):
Stegmann: 474 (309+165)
Louw: 345 (212+133)
So penalties per total breakdown is:
Stegmann: (700/19) = a Penalty every 37 breakdowns.
Louw : (516/13)= a Penalty every 40 breakdowns.
So Stegmann isn’t the liability he is made out to be. Stegmann and Louw follow the same trend in conceding penalties at the breakdown, but Stegmann simply does much more work than Louw.
It’s fine to say “Louw conceded less penalties”, but Louw does much less work than Stegmann in the area where the vast majority of the penalties have been conceded.
I would rather have the hard worker in my team, seeing as their penalty RATES are the same per breakdown.
Has anyone complained about Coenie Oosthuizen leading the penalty count in the S15? Has SuperSport displayed his penalty count before a match? I didn’t watch every Cheetahs match, but I bet they didn’t.
Why didn’t SuperSport instead of displaying at the start of the Bulls-Tahs match that
“Stegmann has conceded 18 penalties in the Super 15?
rather say:
“Stegmann has made the most clean-outs in the Super 15 (of all players)”
or
“Stegmann is the leading South African tackler, and 3rd overall in the Super15 (Assists included)”
…Why not? Because it’s the case.
Furthermore, Stegmann has had less game time due to usually being replaced in the final quarter and rotation with Kuun. This speak volumes about the immense work load that Stegmann handles in every match. Stegmann is as important to the Bulls as Brussow is to the Springboks, and I think it is important that either one of these players should be on the field in every test match.
8 Jun 2011, 06:49 am
The Bulls have the advantage although the Stormes’ forwards as a unit is the best in the game.
Their forwards can apply pressure on Coleman who will struggle anyway with the inaccurate, slow service from Januarie
They can milk points from the absurd Stormers’ b(l)ack three by kicking behind short up and unders, will force the Stormers to allocate extra loose forward on defence something the Bulls can exploit up front, the Reds and the Chiefs did just that.
8 Jun 2011, 06:59 am
I’m not even going to apologize for bringing this up again and reminding people what they missed out on. Things such as this that JC wrote yesterday motivate me (as many times as it is said, as many times it can/should be corrected):
“Opensider Deon Stegmann has come in for a lot of criticism, and deservedly so. The Bulls’ No 6 has conceded 22 penalties, a figure that goes some way to justifying concerns that he’s battled under the breakdown law interpretations. He still makes some important turnovers, but when he gets it wrong, he costs his team territory and points……….Of the two flankers, Stegmann has struggled for consistency, and he will struggle once again if his team fails to get front-foot ball.”
Well firstly, I pointed out above that both Louw and Stegmann concede penalties at the breakdown at the SAME RATE per breakdown. So JC isn’t justified in saying what he did.
Secondly, it is tiresome to hear of “front-foot ball” in every articles as some umbrella phrase. Stegmann and Louw operate at their efficiencies regardless. This is part of an attempt, in my eyes, to get Stegmann branded as a “front-foot bully” as these writers love to do here on this blog.
Are penalties really the only issue that these people can find wrt Stegmann’s game? Well then the issue should be even more concerning to them regarding Louw. What is the real problem here? People have their favourites, and JC has a platform to defend his, whether there are better players in line for the position or not.
8 Jun 2011, 07:03 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-2:
He is the Bulls most valuable forward
Most referees rule the breakdown to unsubstantiated reputations, so they penalise Steggman often for nothing, Louw is a brash offender who challenges the referees often at the breakdown, probably inspired by McCaw’s getting away with a lot..
Kaplan refereeing favours Stegg for his refined, better technique than Louw, wait and see.
8 Jun 2011, 07:05 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-3:
“They can milk points from the absurd Stormers’ b(l)ack three by kicking behind short up and unders…”
Oh, I see what you did there, Hondo.
BLACK three is it? What is your problem? If you really are racist and proud to be so, could you please not post such remarks here and give people the ammunition to hate you (and by some shot the race you apparently represent). OK?
Furthermore, “short up and unders”? Where? When? So simply is it? Well seeing as this thread is a Proudfoot interview I hope he doesn’t read that post of yours and receive his enlightenment and amend his defensive routines, then us Bulls are really screwed.
8 Jun 2011, 07:09 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-5:
OK good, can you please stick to such posts?
And yes I know about the refs. Stegmann conceded 1 penalty this weekend and it was for not rolling away. But it’s clear to anyone in the world that Stegmann was caught in the ruck, and nowhere near the ball or preventing placement. Joubert penaliezed Stegmann anyway, because he jsut can’t ref a Bulls match withou pinging Stegmann as we have seen in the past, and this Stegmann “penalty-risk” myth all started with Craig Joubert last year as well.
8 Jun 2011, 07:10 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-6: How he hasn’t yet been banned is beyond me
8 Jun 2011, 07:21 am
Oh this KeoTV is pure gold.
8 Jun 2011, 07:24 am
@flanka(flanka)-8:
Uh, I dunno, and I don’t really want to get involved.
But just to clarify a bit, concerning the penalty rates I mentioned of Louw and Stegmann being 40 and 37 per breakdown (roughly) respectively, with the total to each player being:
Stegmann: 700
Louw: 516
obviously the penalty counts are relatively SMALL numbers.
And with Stegmann being at almost 200 breakdown MORE than Louw, adding each number will have quite an effect on the rate conceded.
In other words, if Louw actually did more work, by adding opportunities for the flanker to concede penalties as they tick in, it can be seen that his rate would most likely supercede Stegmann’s!
That’s what I’m getting at here, Stegmann is actually a damn fine breakdown player and quite neat at the breakdown for the influence he exerts on the match considering the forward pack make-up of the Bulls and their game plan! YET< they want to say the opposite of Stegmann and Jon Cardinelli and co. try to openly mock Stegmann fo rthis very thing! Why?? It doens't make any sense unless they are pushing for a favourite against common sense and it is indirectly an insult to rugby fans and readers of this blog.
8 Jun 2011, 07:26 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-10:
well, supercede=exceed really
8 Jun 2011, 07:38 am
Bakkies and FDP out for this weekend’s clash.
8 Jun 2011, 07:44 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-10: 1 out of every 10 posts of his is an informed rugby post, the rest are plain racist….so getting in a conversation with him ultimately gets anyone “involved”…..at the end of the day both stegmann and flo aren’t game influencing breakdown exponents like pockock or richie so really this game is about dominance at the collisions, consistently breaching the advantage line (something burger has been doing exceptionally well) accurate penalty kicking (coleman seems to have decent kicking shoes on him) and perhaps a moment or 2 of brilliance by aplon, basson, JDV, JF or Hougie
8 Jun 2011, 07:45 am
i agree with this Agile fellow.
Those penalty stats must not be seen in isolation.
I also subscribe to the philosophy that a traditional opensider should be on the field for 80 minutes of every Bok test match.
Currently there are three interntional world class opensiders in SA….
Brussow
Steggmenn
F Louw.
Two of them should go to WC…..
A lot depends on the make up of the WC squad, regretfully I believe PDV will only take one of them.
8 Jun 2011, 07:48 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-11:
Is your real name Deon by any chance???????
Why dont you bring in the amount of carries with ball in hand into that stats????
Cause Stegman almost never carries the ball where Flo does loads more and getting over the advantage line……time spent running Stegman into the ground will favour Stegmans stats in tackles made! Brig in the ball carry stats….lets see what was Flo doing while stegman was lying all over the ball!
8 Jun 2011, 07:49 am
@grant10(grant10)-14:
Again…stegman is not near the calibre as FLo and Brussow….because he cant carry the ball for you!
8 Jun 2011, 07:50 am
@flanka(flanka)-13:
Well I disagree, Brussow and Stegmann are in class of McCaw and Pocock.
BTW, as you spoke of gainline breaching, gainline success:
Burger: 52%
Stegmann: 78%
Of course Burger has carried almost 3 times as much, but that is his role, and brings me back to what I said at post 10. I’m just pointing out that Stegmann is a very capable ball carrier, something the haters conveniently like to forget.
8 Jun 2011, 07:53 am
@Hoops(Hoops)-16:
Well Pako, try ask me the questions in the order I have them written out for you LMAO, read post 17, I wrote it as you wrote post 16. What a coincidence?
Nope, you are a typical hater in that category. This is too good. I have more examples if you care to find out. Stegmann makes 4.3 metres per carry, Flo 5. Whoopdidoo, Stegmann gets involved in the traffic.
8 Jun 2011, 07:56 am
@Hoops(Hoops)-16:
(In case you were wondering, Flo’s is 61% in comparison to Stegman’s 78%. So must we now conclude that Stegmann can bust tackles better than Louw?)
8 Jun 2011, 07:59 am
@Hoops(Hoops)-15:
“time spent running Stegman into the ground will favour Stegmans stats in tackles made”
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Pre-coffee post? Gotta love it.
8 Jun 2011, 08:02 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-17: I don’t hate Stegmann, I just have my own opinion of him, in my words he is k a k.
8 Jun 2011, 08:04 am
@Kea-Cat(KEA)-21:
“in your words” hey?
Well you seem to have quite an impressive vocabulary…
8 Jun 2011, 08:28 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-2: I responded on that thread,. but for clarity sake I’ll repost it here:
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-204: Love the way you use the stats to support your argument, rather than illuminate it.
First is was the simple penalty count, when you thought Steggies had less than FLO. (he doesn’t)
Then it was penalties per minute played, when you thought Steggies had less. (he doesn’t)
Now it’s this convaluted formula.
Fact is fella, you cannot measure the two players objectively. The measurement will always be subjective, and come down to who wants to pick him.
Steggies isn;t a bad player, we get that, but he definately has weaknesses. We get that, you don’t.
PS we get that FLO has weaknesses too.
8 Jun 2011, 08:31 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-22: I have but when it comes to Stegmann there is only one.
8 Jun 2011, 08:32 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-10:
very strange to compare how many rucks each has attended when there is no way to identify how many they had the opportunity to attend. also is it defensive rucks, or both attacking and defensive?
also you may have noticed stormers dont commit many players to rucks compared to the bulls. can you identify what percentage of attended rucks result in an effective contribution, steal slow down etc.
i am not advocating one player over the other, only highlighting that simplistic comparisons like you have done are based on extremely flawed analysis.
quite simply, who has conceded more kickable penalties, thus costing his team ore points? who has won the most turnovers? who has scored or created the most tries?
even comparing tackle stats is misleading as it does not take into account how many tackles the team has made or how much of each game they spent on defence. i’d prefer to know what percentage of their teams tackles each has each effected.
so, stats aside it comes down to pure subjectivity. unless you’re able to make the statistical comparisons somehow meaningful.
neither would make my bok squad for world cup.
schalk brussouw juan alberts duane spies. rossouw, as 4th lock also covers back row.
my starting back row would be brussouw, smith, schalk. with danie and bekker on the bench.
8 Jun 2011, 08:32 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-23:
No I dont think you understand.
Firstly, the stats differ from SS to ruggastats by 4 penalties.
Secondly, I never brought minutes played into it.
Thirdly, what I said is really sefl-referencing and common sense. I am not taking anything out of context and using it as some sort of pseudo argument.
It isn’t my fault if people don’t have the common sense to see that.
8 Jun 2011, 08:33 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-10: PS Steggman has to hit more rucks than FLO because Spies does bugger all.
Also, you’ll notice that everyone, including the commentators talk about how few men the Stormers commit to the ruck, allowing the defensive line to be better organised.
We have 3 very good “ruck hitting” loose forwards, Duanne, Schalk and FLO. They don’t all have to be there all the time, they share the load, where Stegmann doesn’t get that benefit,
It doesn’t make him a better or worse player, just a different player playing in a different system. You cannot compare that stats as they are not “apples with apples”
You are not going to find an even basis for comparison in this case mate, the variables are just too many. If you took a step back you’d see that.
8 Jun 2011, 08:39 am
@munkiboi(munkiboi)-25:
Firstly, I outline the attacking and defensive ruck (A and D)
Secondly, ruggastats that Jon used doesn’t have pilfers, only t/o affected in the tackle.
Thirdly, there is ALWAYS more work to do in rugby.
Lastly, how many ways are there to interpret say, tackle success? Stegmann has 96% and Burger has 89%
I mean who do you think, statistically speaking, is most likely to miss their next tackle?
Or stats such as a kicker’s sucess rate. If Steyn has 78% and Grant has 61%, who would you back to kick a penlaty?
Or would you say that that is taking things out of context? The rest is their for your own discernment. Not my fault if you cant read between the lines.
8 Jun 2011, 08:40 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-26: Relax, i get your point, but see above for further clarification,.
PS you’ve been referring to penalties per minutes played for some time now. not nescessarily in your specific post above, but you’ve been talking a lot about it for sure.
Just try and see my point, you cannot compare the two, they play in different systems and have different roles. None of the Stormers loosies have a specialist role like Steggies, they all do the same things, they all take the ball up, they all hit the rucks, they all get stuck in underneath to slow the ball down, it just depends on who is on the side of the field that the tackles get made,
What I will say is that it is clear that this year, the Stormers system is much more effective than the Bulls. Last year too, as we conceded less points and tries ever in the history of the comp, and as you say, slowing the ball down and allowing your defenders to organise themselves is a major job of the opensider.
We just have 2 opensiders doing that, while you have 1.
8 Jun 2011, 08:42 am
@munkiboi(munkiboi)-25: I addressed some of the same points in my post without seeing yours. Well said, and I echo your sentiments.
8 Jun 2011, 08:45 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-27:
“PS Steggman has to hit more rucks than FLO because Spies does bugger all.”
Actually, it’s more like:
“Spies doesn’t have to hit more rucks because Stegmann does it all.”
I don’t think I am comparing apples and oranges. Even Jon compared the two. Why cant I continue in the same way? Flo wears 7, Stegmann 6. I have said before that apart rom the set pieces Flo takes over an openside role ahead of Burger. There is ALWAYS more work to be done in rugby. And yes the players are applied slightly differently, but the way the Boks hope to apply the openside if they are planning to use Brussow is the same way Stegmann is used. Just saying.
You can’t view the stats in isolation, but as I wrote to munkiboi in post28, they can help indicate which players bring what to certain facets of the game.
8 Jun 2011, 08:46 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-29:
“PS you’ve been referring to penalties per minutes played for some time now. not nescessarily in your specific post above, but you’ve been talking a lot about it for sure”
-Actually that was last year.
And for the rest see post 31.
8 Jun 2011, 08:48 am
@Kea-Cat(KEA)-24:
Ja so K A K (your choice word) he has 2 Super Rugby titles and a Currie Cup in 3 years being the first choice no.6 of most successful franchise in South Africa since his days as a 21-year-old.
8 Jun 2011, 08:49 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-32: I know it was last year. You’ve been on about the FLO vs Steggies thing for some time.
8 Jun 2011, 08:50 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-28: @stormersboy(stormersboy)-29:
I reckon you boys will just have to go outside, whip ‘em out, and measure ‘em.
That’s the only way you’ll get to settle this…
8 Jun 2011, 08:56 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-34:
yep. But…..
This all started with a debate about Stegmann’s penalty count, and apprently it isn’t out of fashion and JC brought it up in yesterday’s thread…so here is the response. Criticize JC for taking things out of context and simplifyiing matters and insulting our intelligence, NOT ME!
When it’s a case of the uninformed claiming that “Stegmann concedes too many penalties”, I CLEARLY POINT OUT in post 2 that Stegmann’s penalty RATE is the same as that of another Springbok flanker, Louw, and that the TREND is such that if Louw did as much as Stegmann at the breakdown than his would exceed Stegmann’s in all likelihood.
What is so hard to understand for you guys? This isn’t taking the stats out of context, this is the first steps in analysing them.
8 Jun 2011, 08:59 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-36:
than=then
8 Jun 2011, 09:01 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-31: All Stats do is give you raw data. It’s like comparing kicking stats. Where were the kicks taken? In front or at the edge of the field. How far back?
All stats can do over time is give you an indication of who is relatively effective vs another player in a very specific context. But this has to be seen in th broader context of team dynamic, conditions and combinations.
It is true, and i’m not saying you have no point to make whatsoever, that Stegman is the closest “twin” to heinrich Brussow that we have.
The question is whether firstly, he’ll be as effective as him in the same context, and secondly, whether this is still the way to go, tactics wise.
If you were to simply use statistics to make a decision then you would obviously say that the Bok Trio should be the Stormers Trio, the Sharks, front row should be the Bok Front row, and the Bulls second row should be the Bok second row, because as a unit they work the best together. (Hold on, aren’t we almost there already)?
We both know it’s not as simple as that. The two teams play different systems, and with varying degrees of success. the Stormers defensive system is the moste effective in Super Rugby over the last 2 years, while the Bulls offensive system was the most effective last year, with the Reds being top this year.
The biggest challenge for a Springbok selector is to choose the individuals that will best suit the 15 man purpose and style of play. And we all know that this is where the problem is.
FLO was dynamite for the boks last year in certain combinations, and less effective in others, although the team as a whole, including might Vic and others were equally poor in those games. Does that mean FLO is the answer? That’s not what I’m saying at all, but it does suggest that he’s a very good option, like 12 other loose forwards, Stegman included.
The final measurement as I’ve always said, will be mostly subjective, after all the above is taken into account. That’s why they pay them the big bucks.
8 Jun 2011, 09:01 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-36:
If Stegmann has you for him, who can be against him?
8 Jun 2011, 09:05 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-35: rather than compare ours, we should be comparing Francois and Deons.
Now that’s a stat worth talking about
8 Jun 2011, 09:05 am
Both of them give away penalties, as does Ratel, nature of the job of a fetcher, most times the refs get it wrong anyway so those penalty stats are skewed !!!
Who cares that one has given away slightly more than the other, all fine players but we alll know Ratel will be picked , if fit.
If not then anyone of Steggs or Flo will do !!!!
Move on chaps !!
8 Jun 2011, 09:06 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-38:
“All Stats do is give you raw data”
Round and round we go….
“The biggest challenge for a Springbok selector is to choose the individuals that will best suit the 15 man purpose and style of play. And we all know that this is where the problem is”
+1…and then they intend to use Brussow….and then as you and Matfield agree “Stegmann is the closest thing to Brussow”.
“FLO was dynamite for the boks last year in certain combinations…”
Actually FLO was dynamite against the minnows.
8 Jun 2011, 09:06 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-40:
8 Jun 2011, 09:08 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-41:
“anyone of Steggs or Flo will do!!!!”
Yeah, Flo will do if Stegmann isn’t available, and if Burger isn’t available.
8 Jun 2011, 09:09 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-40:
A hot topic down there in the Cape?
8 Jun 2011, 09:11 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-42: So was Victor against the minnows, and **** against the others, Thing is, you can’t say that he’s bad if the whole team was bad.
And you know my opinion of FLO. I prefer PLO as a proper opensider, i just don’t think they are close enough in styles and roles to be able to compare. That’s my point.
You can try and compare Heinrich and Deon, that would be more accurate, but you’d have to compare them both in exactly the same setting (ie both playing for the Springboks against the same teams with the same team mates), which is nigh impossible, otherwise your comparison is less valid, which is my point.
8 Jun 2011, 09:13 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-45: Not particularly but then i don’t get out as much as i used to
8 Jun 2011, 09:18 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-46:
Yes, I know, I considered that, it’s clear as daylight, the comparison is still valid and the two are vying for one position in one team. And at provincial level, the two fulfil much of the same role and are comparable. Anyway I have to remind you again that this started with the penalties that both concede and both have to compete all the same under the same rules at indiviual breakdowns. The penalties there are mostly in isolation and pretty explanatory the way I outline it using the stats and short discriptions.
8 Jun 2011, 09:24 am
The Stormers have established themselves as the new bullies of the Super Rugby playground??? I would wait to lift the trophy before you get off saying stuff like that. I suppose this is the Fox News version of a rugby blog. Biased propaganda one side bullshit lies with a dose of conflict of intrest.
The Bulls props are the bullies backed up with Daniesoraus and the invisible man Steggies.
I have my chair and my meds already primed for this game.
8 Jun 2011, 09:31 am
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/Stats-favour-Habana-over-Bjorn-20110607
“Stats favour Habana over Bjorn”
by Stephen Nell
LMAO.
I mean, what is wrong with me using stats to aid in comparing Louw and Stegmann in very constrained areas of the game as I do, when this Stephen Nell writes stuff like this and GETS PAID FOR IT!
Ok all you guys raising objections to me and my approach, go on over to Sport24 and take Stephen Nell out
.
8 Jun 2011, 09:33 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-50:
Nell is an idiot.
You really don’t want to compare yopurself to him.
8 Jun 2011, 09:33 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-10: Stegman may have been involved in 200 more rucks the Flow, but I put this down to Spies being a member of his back row. Spies has been a passenger all S15, the extra work load he’s created on his fellow flankers must be immense. Being involved in a ruck is one thing, but actually doing something at ruck time is something else. I don’t think Stegman’s reading of the play, knowing when to compete and when not to is as good as a guy like Brussow’s just yet.
8 Jun 2011, 09:41 am
the bulls backrowers all being written off again as kak.
well, I would love to know how the bulls pack actually ever get any ball.
g.botha and kruger are no match for Blaauw and Fourie apparently.
b.botha and matfield have met their match.
the backrow is not a contest at all.
everyone knows the wp backs are just so far superior.
should be a walk over for the stormers.
8 Jun 2011, 09:43 am
@gunther keeps the cape in shape(gunther)-51: Indeed he is, but stats are stats. And he makes a good point about Habana still pipping Basson as a valuable team player.
“In the 12 games that he has played, he has handled the ball 153 times (73 carries) against the 109 (53 carries) of Basson in 14 games. Habana has also gained 909 metres in territory against the 647m of Basson.”
Everyone just likes a new flavour ice cream from time to time. Habana is vanilla while Basson is Toffee-Oreo-Buttercup-Blueberry-Peanutbutter-Deluxe with boerewors sprinkles and a spicy flake. Might not still be around come summer time.
8 Jun 2011, 09:43 am
@gunther keeps the cape in shape(gunther)-51:
I’m not really. I’m simply pointing out the inconsistency around here. It’s just ironic too that Nellie is a Capie.
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-52:
Incorrect. *sigh*
Firstly, Spies has impressive work rate stats. That was mentioned in a few articles 2 weeks ago.
Secondly, The Bulls rely on their openside flank in much the same way as the NZders do.
And lastly, Stegmann is the leading player in the Super15 in ruck clean-outs. The first player to 300 on attack, the first to 100 on defense and most likely will be the first to 500 overall this coming weekend….AND YOU PUT IT DOWN TO THE FAILINGS OF HIS TEAM MATE?!?!
Wow.
“Stegmann, Spies is lazy, please go and deliver the S15′s highest work rate……OK thank you. You aren’t as good as Brussow though, because your anticipation isn’t as good as his because you get involved in too many rucks and don’t pick the right ones…“
You’ve gotta be kidding me.
8 Jun 2011, 09:43 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-48: Yawn, move on. You bore me.
Your arguement was well structured in the beginning, but although you say you’re only concerned with the penalty count, you seem to have some other agenda against flo. ”You doth protest too much”.
Whatever the stormers have been doing, they’ve been doing it better the Bulls up till now.
Stormers will probably win, although I would love to see Morne Steyn have a ripper, we need him back for the boks.
8 Jun 2011, 09:46 am
weather kak in cape town.
enjoy training stormers
8 Jun 2011, 09:47 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-54:
but all those stats prove is that habana has received the ball more than Basson.
(which we all know is the result of a racist plot by the bulls players and management)
who has scored more tries?
anyway, I’m not suggesting habana is past it.
8 Jun 2011, 09:48 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-54:
the Bulls dont spread the ball to the wings as much as the Stormers do. The Bulls actually have faith in their set pieces and are scoring more tries.
Habana: 909 metres/ 73 carries: 12 metres per carry
Basson: 647 metres/ 53 carries: 12 metres per carry
whoopdidoo.
8 Jun 2011, 09:49 am
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
8 Jun 2011, 09:51 am
@last movement(GrubdogSA)-56:
Ok. Sorry for boring you, I guess…
8 Jun 2011, 09:56 am
as for my take….
big game
coleman could get into trouble, particularly if he doesn’t nail his first few kicks.
pressure.
correct about the set piece though. The team that does their basics the best and messes up the oppositions basics…will probably win it.
8 Jun 2011, 09:58 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-28: Ag Mrs Stegman give it a break please , you worse than Tacitus when Spies was on fire.
We all agree , Stegman has strengths but also weaknesses just like FLO , they play in very different teams with different styles , Stormers dont commit much to rucks , Bulls do etc etc.
Besides stats means nothing , on current form Kade Poki is the best NZ wing according to stats if one goes by fantasy rugby , I don’t think he is in the top 6 wingers for NZ.
Just saying , stats can be misleading , how many effective rucks did Stegman hit ? Its impossible to say really
8 Jun 2011, 09:58 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-55: Who is Stegman’s competition to get to the other rucks? Spies can’t be botherd and Potgeiter maybe, Matfield no thanks I just jump in the lineout, Bakkies slow, front row slow. So its a lot easier for him to get to the rucks before the majority of his team. Compare that with Flow, he has to get there before Schalk burger, Duane Vermulen, Andries Bekker or Deon Fourie, all of whom are very fast, fit and committed. Its a far tougher job then Stegman’s. So to a statistician, Stegman looks fantastic, to a person who’s capable of understanding what goes on, on a rugby pitch, he aint all that.
8 Jun 2011, 10:05 am
@sparticus(sparticus)-63:
Sorry Agadore, I keep on having to make these posts, because I keep on having to correct you. Flo and Stegmann are vying for one spot in the same position in one team. Capiche?
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-64:
Matfield had the 3rd highest number of cleanouts last weekendand it has been consistently high for most of the S15 for a loosehead lock. try not to embarrass yourself. Just another example. Just saying.
8 Jun 2011, 10:05 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-59:
Stats stats stats , the one stat you need to worry about is
Stormers played 14 , won 11 current position 1 – 57 points
Bulls Played 14 , won 9 , current position 3 – 49 Points
With 2 games to go ! Gonna be a great game at Newlands , Bulls out for revenge but depleted a bit , Stormers looking to cement their position on top but also depleted a bit. On current form and taking into factors like travelling and home ground I would Bulls favorites by 55-45. However this is not the same Stormers team of previous years and showed plenty fighting spirit so we will see !!
All I know is that will be on the railway stand AA 100 and something come Saturday shouting my lungs out !!
8 Jun 2011, 10:08 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-65: No they not , first choices will be Broussow and Burger and if a big if PDV decides to take a 3rd he is not known to hand out caps , did Stegman play for the boks ? If not then Flo is the man , if so then jaa I agree they playing for the same spot but there is a lot of if’s in between !
8 Jun 2011, 10:09 am
i ccan’t believe anyone in their right mind will defend habana being trumped by basson in the try-scoring stakes by mentioning that habana HANDLED the ball more and has made more metres! metres going where, to the try line?
ffs habana handles the ball, runs with it, comes across a defender, kicks it the ball out of play, he throws his hands in the air making faces like what he did wa a superb piece of ingenuity and the opposition get a lineout because he kicked the ball on the full taking stormers back metres!
who gives a f*ck about handles and metres gained by a wing? habana won IRB Player of the Year in 2007 after equalling Lomu’s RWC record of TRIES not handles & metres gained!
it is a rubbish argument and inane in the most inconcievable way!
8 Jun 2011, 10:13 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-68: I don’t think Agile Tyrant actually watches the rugby matches, he just reads the stats!
8 Jun 2011, 10:13 am
@sparticus(sparticus)-66:
There you go now, you see? In the scientific community there are “Lumpers” and then there are “Splitters”. I’m a “Splitter”. And all you’ve got to say is:
“Stats stats stats , the one stat you need to worry about is
Stormers played 14 , won 11 current position 1 – 57 points
Bulls Played 14 , won 9 , current position 3 – 49 Points”
Deeply disappointed.
8 Jun 2011, 10:23 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-68:
ahem.
Indeed, exactly what I said. Habs has always been a try scoring machine.
No longer.
I think you should know there is a VERY spicey new video of Shakira’s.
There is pole-dancing involved.
8 Jun 2011, 10:28 am
@gunther keeps the cape in shape(gunther)-71:
Why do we need Shakira when we have Keohane and Vrede show
8 Jun 2011, 10:30 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-72:
check it out on uboob.
I nearly had a cardiac event.
I think the keo and vrede video is aimed at the stomrers market.
8 Jun 2011, 10:31 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-72: Our very own Spice Girls. Old Spice and Braai Spice.
8 Jun 2011, 10:42 am
Flo and steggies pretty evenly matched both have a very outside chance of being picked and if so at the end of the day they will pick the player that fits best with the rest of the loose trio. Schalk probly at 8 with Smith at 7 and Brussow at 6. then you have prob def picks Alberts, Kanko and Spies(unfortunately) then come the rest Vermeulen, Flo, Steggies etc. so really what are we talking about.
8 Jun 2011, 10:43 am
@gunther keeps the cape in shape(gunther)-71: oh yes, i’m going to check it out now!
8 Jun 2011, 10:45 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-74:
who do you think you are ?
8 Jun 2011, 10:47 am
@Divz(Divz)-75:
“so really what are we talking about.”
Well we are talking about penalties. We are also saying that there is only ever one best player for a position at any given time taking the game plan and team make-up into account. And then we concluded that Stegmann trumps FLouw as a Springbok openside flank.
8 Jun 2011, 10:53 am
@sparticus(sparticus)-67: de Villiers is very well known for handing out very easy and undeserved caps! Outside of Brussow we do not have a test worthy opensider. Schalk is no opensider. Not even test worthy himself.
8 Jun 2011, 10:53 am
For the stats boffins. Anyone have a list of the top 10 turnover players in the comp? We should be able to identify at least 6 openside flanks and 1 or 2 8/6 combo’s. If not, are we placing way too much emphasis on the ‘fetcher’, role. Are we playing a fetcher to boost our defensive play? If so, perhaps the kicking game is suited to that direction of thinking. Alternatively, playing an openside flank as a attacking support play in addition to his defensive skills, you get better player, able to adapt to the team strategy on any given day.
8 Jun 2011, 10:54 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-78: Agreed, Stegmann does trump the highly overrated Louw, but neither are test quality. I backed both to produce a lot more on their tests last year, and neither was any good.
8 Jun 2011, 11:00 am
@pompies2(pompies2)-80:
You are the first to mention “fetcher”. The built-in assumption in your post is that the fetcher should be making the most pilfers and that that is his primary function. Wrong.
@Blitzbok(Blitzbok)-81:
Well there are plenty to disagree with you. And really, Stegmann was still recovering from an initially-misdiagnosed grade 3 hamstring tear. How many times must I say that? And also, I think Stegmann had a great debut. And not only me. Anyway you don’t “rate” him, ok fine. Brussow is your no.1 candidate based on 2009′s form under 2009 interpretations. OK good for you.
8 Jun 2011, 11:01 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-78:
you cannot conclude that steggies is the best until you have made up the rest of the team especially the loose trio. Winning is about team play not individuals otherwise watson would have played for the boks a few years back. Cannot pick a team on stats will never work.
8 Jun 2011, 11:04 am
@Divz(Divz)-83:
I don’t know if you noticed, but there are already a team full of Bok-contracts. And I’m not picking a team, and I’m not picking based on stats.
I’m picking one player above another and I’m using stats to help clarify some misconceptions.
8 Jun 2011, 11:09 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-82: My post wasn’t in direct reference to the discussion, but a general consensus that an openside flank who pilfers is a non-negotiable. Why for instance, would you choose Stegmann over Flouw? Provincial allegiances aside.
8 Jun 2011, 11:11 am
MAn i do worry about player burnout forthe likes of Burger. Burger should have been rested against the Rebels the stormers knew they were going to win
8 Jun 2011, 11:16 am
@pompies2(pompies2)-85:
I get you, don’t worry. The fetcher helps maintain possession, slow opposition ball down in a couple of ways and is a top defender. He has the largest say at the breakdown and that’s why I say Stegmann above Louw, Stegmann does so much more than Louw work in these departments.
Stegmann also has a better gainline- and tackle succes rate, and has the ideal body type for openside just like Brussow, IMO. Brussow and Stegmann are the same weight and height, and have a compact build. For all the reasons I (and most) prefer Brussow above Louw, I prefer Stegmann too.
8 Jun 2011, 11:16 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-84:
You make a good argument but many disagree with you anyway at the end of the day neither will probably get picked and i dont beleive either player will make a huge difference to the bok team – so futile banging your head against the wall.
8 Jun 2011, 11:29 am
@Divz(Divz)-88:
I blog for fun. I bugger off when I feel that all I’m doing is eroding my lumbar vertebrae.
People think Burger and Brussow should make the RWC squad, but Brussow will have to demonstrate that he can handle a huge work rate and fully recover and be better than Stegmann. Currently Stegmann is better than Brussow- it doesn’t help to judge Brussow on 2009′s form. Other players haven’t been living on a plateau, you know. And even in 2009 Stegmann was better in the Super14 than Brussow up until he missed a third of the competition.
Grant10, for example, wrote that “Brussow walked on water in Sydney” when the Cheetahs beat the Tahs for the first tiem ever, but Heinz still had a low work rate, and we have seen how that the Cheetahs mean business even without him.
The bottom line is that Stegmann is in the class of Brussow and is ahead of Brussow at the moment to go to the RWC and Brussow only has the Tri Nations left to prove that he can be better than Stegmann since returning from 2 serious injuries and also now that we are under the 2010 interps and not the lenient 2009 interps Brussow became famous under.
People seem to have blow the legend of Brussow out of proportion and now Brussow is irreplaceable in the minds of many.
Well, it should be good news to hear that we have a replacement that can be as good and even better: Stegmann. But those people love misery, and company and bliss.
8 Jun 2011, 11:34 am
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-87: Valid points. I’m not sure i agree with you entirely. I think Flo is a slightly better front-on defender against bigger guys because of his size, whereas stegmann might be better in open play. While stegmann has a better gain-line success rate, flo is the better link player.
So it’s a case of who you prefer. I guess this weekends match will provide some more answers.
8 Jun 2011, 11:41 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-68: Kwenzeke ntoni eQonce kulempelavenki idlulileyo
!!!! , uzakubakhona kule weekend?
8 Jun 2011, 11:56 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-91: hehe yeah ndiyeza
8 Jun 2011, 12:09 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-90:
“front-on defender” doesn’t mean anything to me, mate.
A low centre of gravity help you wrestle an opponent. Stegmann wieghs 104 kilograms and is 1.81 metres tall. He tackles like a machine. Nodody here, no matter how much they hate Stegmann for whatever reason will tell you that Stegmann can’t tackle forwards back.
I mean look at how ferociously Brussow tackled in the BIL and 2009 Tri Nations. He’s a monster and so is Steggies.
Defending is 70% a mental thing. Look at Gio Aplon for example, and look at how poor Spies can be in the tackle. Size doesn’t enter into it when Stegmann is already 104 Kg boet. Richie McCaw is also only 104 Kgs and nobody doubts how physical the man is and that he can tackle the daylights out of any player no matter where he is encountered on the field. Sorry, but I’m not buying it. Louw bigger and better at the tackle? Nope.
8 Jun 2011, 12:16 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-93: front-on defending means an ability to limit the forward momentum of the attacking side and in an ideal scenario even causing a negative gain. I’m not disputing the fact that stegmann can defend well, it’s just that his defensive strengths really come to the fore in open play. Using Brussouw and Mccaw as yardsticks also doesn’t address the focal point of my argument. there’s not much to choose between the two. The both have strengths the other doesn’t
8 Jun 2011, 12:24 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-94:
Well, Stegmann has been breaching the gainline with more success than Louw, he has been missing fewer tackles than Louw, he has had an impact at many more breakdowns than Louw, he is faster than Louw by quite a margin. What can Louw do that he cant?
Some guy will probably think:”lineout”. Stegmann has even been a successful lineout jumper at Test level, so no.
I have respect for Louw and I do think he is test material, I just think both Brussow and Stegmann offer more than Louw in every facet of the game, besides the fact that Louw is heavier by 8 kilograms than both. But that hasn’t helped him breach the gainline more, so you gotta wonder…he is slower after all, I subscribe to the philosophy that the opensider must be faster than the blindside because he needs to zip between breakdowns. Most NH teams have this the other way around because they prefer the ball carrying flank (primary) to be faster with ball in hand.
8 Jun 2011, 12:27 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-95:
I mean Juan Smith isn’t the fastest guy around either, even Burger is faster, and it has always been this way in SA rugby. Or just look at it since the professional era and the days of Ruben Kruger. Stegmann is the modern Ruben Kruger according to Wynand Claassen and I happen to agree.
8 Jun 2011, 12:33 pm
The team is: Zane Kirchner, Gerhard van den Heever, Jaco Pretorius, Wynand Olivier, Bjorn Basson, Morné Steyn, Francois Hougaard, Pierre Spies, Dewald Potgieter, Deon Stegmann, Victor Matfield (c), Danie Rossouw, Werner Kruger, Gary Botha, Dean Greyling. Replacements: Chiliboy Ralepelle, Rossouw de Klerk, Flip van der Merwe, Derick Kuün, Dustin Jinka, Francois Brummer, Stephan Dippenaar
8 Jun 2011, 12:43 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-70: U read my whole post and all u see is that ? U have issues ! LOL
8 Jun 2011, 12:45 pm
@Blitzbok(Blitzbok)-79: Sorry , Where has PDIV handed out cheap caps ? I cannot recall many ? Also sorry for foul language but voecheck, Schalk Burger is KONING !! which I admit is ironic coming from me str to my post a few weeks ago re last of support from stormers players and management in the CC community.
8 Jun 2011, 12:48 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-97: OMG Stegman is in the TEAM !!!!! Whoopidoo!!! LOL
8 Jun 2011, 12:50 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-95: Okay seriously are you the guys agent,wife,mom or brother ? U almost make me hope he gets injured so that you can shut the *** up re Stegman !! OMG I am a huge Schalk Burger fan but even I know when enough is enough.
U make Tactius look lethargic.
8 Jun 2011, 12:51 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-96: I think I am going to reply to all your Stegman post with ” Jaa but Flo is prettier” LOL , on second though I have a life. Cheers Mrs Stegman
8 Jun 2011, 12:57 pm
stormersboy:
Agile T*t-Tyrant:
Haven’t read through all the posts… so don’t know if this has been mentioned.
Believe Agile is living up to his name and cherry-picking stats that favour his man…
The value of Louw is that he not only wins the ball on the ground… but he also carries it up strongly… something for which Steggman is not renowned.
Would be interesting to see the metres-gained stats for the two.
Point being… if you’re going to compare players… compare them on their full contributions to the match.
And with that… have to get back to work…
8 Jun 2011, 12:59 pm
@ufo(ufo)-103:
Well, at least you didn’t lie about not reading through all the posts.
8 Jun 2011, 13:00 pm
@sparticus(sparticus)-98:
That’s because your post wasn’t worth responding to…
8 Jun 2011, 13:04 pm
Ag faark you fools.
Would rather have Tearaway Daniel any day over these chromosome lacking mongrel excuses for “Fetchers”…
Ratel is peerless…
Then Daniel the next best option…
8 Jun 2011, 13:10 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-106:
A “mongrel” is somebody having a chromosome too many. Bring that mongrel Daniel to Loftus next week and let’s see what happens.
8 Jun 2011, 13:14 pm
@ufo(ufo)-103:
Spot on, ufo.
Francois Louw: 83 carries, 433 metres gained
Deon Stegmann: 51 carries, 156 metres gained
Flo averages 6 carries and 31 metres gained per match; Steggies averages 3 carries and 11 metres per match.
8 Jun 2011, 13:19 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-107: You thinking “Mongol”? Wrong. That is not the same as mongrel. No stats to support that either… Sorrry for yoooou!
8 Jun 2011, 13:20 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-108:
where did you get 51 carrier to Stegmann? It’s 36 carries.
8 Jun 2011, 13:20 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-109:
8 Jun 2011, 13:23 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-110:
Verusco ruggastats.
8 Jun 2011, 13:25 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-108: Would luv to see the stats for Daniel in terms of tackles made and completed, Turnovers gained and metres gained. I have a feeling that he will have outperformed the 2 you guys are referring to, just my impression.
8 Jun 2011, 13:26 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-108:
it’s 4.3 metres per carry to Stegmann and 5.3 to Louw. Louw carried 83 times to Stegmann’s 36. But Stegmann breached the gainline at 78% to 62. That means Louw received much of his carries in space and got good yardage out of a few. For the most, being many more attepts, he was smashed before the gainline. Stegmann focusses more on the breakdown, but when he gets a carry he more readily busts through tackles and makes a few metres.
8 Jun 2011, 13:29 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-112:
I know I’m using them too. Stegmann made 36 carries not 51 like you say.
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-113:
Actuall not Bananaboy. He is worse off than Louw.
139 tackles + 31 assists. B/d 155+74 but remember he missed 2 games due to ban and came off the bench in 2 games. tackle success 92%
8 Jun 2011, 13:33 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-113:
Although metres per carry is 8.3. to Daniel and gainline at 72% is quite good considering where he plays. But if Stegmann did less work at the breakdown, he would probably make as many metres seeing as his gainline is 78%
(Remember it takes work to reach the breakdown and then the real work starts once you get there, and these flanks often arrive there but dont commit, so that is work as well, the stats as well consider only the first 3 to arrive, and players pile in beyond that, though not nearly is that often the case. Just saying.)
8 Jun 2011, 13:37 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-113:
Also Piesangseun, Keegan Daniel has an unsightly 21 unforced and handling errors count to Stegmann’s 4. That’s a huge difference.
And people love to say Steggies costs the Bulls by conceding those few penalties. What about coughing up possession due to poor handling?? Or cocking up a building attack with poor handling and all the exhaustion that results from it to the team and the knock in spirit the other players take when seeing this happen on the field??
Keegan makes a handling error every 7 handle counts, Stegmann only every 25 Louw every 12.
8 Jun 2011, 13:38 pm
what a boring discussion.
everything that could be said had been said by post 12.
everything after that is simply “my province has a better player in his psition than your province” emotional bs when we all know the sharks have the second best option after brussow (keegan)
disclaimer: i reference the complete dominance of both the bulls and stormers backrows in last years cc as evidence to support my claim.
ho ho fecking ho.
8 Jun 2011, 13:40 pm
@ufo(ufo)-103: I don’t think the article started out as a dual between team flo and team stegmann. What I was saying is that they both have strengths which makes them suitable for a specific gameplan. A hybrid between the 2 would be a monstrous player.
While the stats shown here seem to disagree with AGT’s theory, even stats in favour of stegmann might not give an indication of who the better player is. Given the combination of what’s really available to the Boks ito players, I know who I’d choose.
8 Jun 2011, 13:43 pm
I think taute could play 6 if he wanted to
8 Jun 2011, 13:44 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-119:
Why would you want a hybrid between Louw and Steggies? A ontrous player?? You will simply end up with a slower Stegmann that knocks more, misses more tackles and gets caught behind the gainline more. At least he will be 6 centimetres taller heh?
8 Jun 2011, 13:48 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-105: And yet you did respond , are you seeing the psychotic behavioral issues here as well ?
8 Jun 2011, 13:52 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-118:
Well, as I said to “last movement”, sorry boet.
But some people find it interesting. My life’s work is boring, to me this topic isn’t so far. And as long as I feel in the mood to respond to the uninformed opinions of most of the bloggers here.
@sparticus(sparticus)-122:
I think the one “behavioral issue” here is that it took you more than two hours to get back to me on that and you still don’t realize what I did there….
8 Jun 2011, 13:54 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-123:
maybe change your lifes work then buddy.
8 Jun 2011, 14:07 pm
Steggies or Flo,
both a big no-no
…for the Boks, yoa.
8 Jun 2011, 14:10 pm
@nama1(nama1)-125:
FINALLY! An intelligent and insightful response.
8 Jun 2011, 14:12 pm
I’m outta here.
8 Jun 2011, 14:19 pm
Steggman is no different to say: Warren Brosnihan & Wayne Fyvie.
Hard worker but ultimately will not get selected above more talented,bigger,stronger more efficient,less penalty-ridden incumbents.
Same with Dewalt Potgieter who is like a poor man version of Schalk Burger adn at times a diluted Rassie Erasmus.
And if people are going to quote how many supertitles they won etc please note: Reuben Thorne, Sam Broomhall, Mose Tuia’li’i, Justin Collins, Dylan Mika, Andrew Blowers, Todd Blackadder(as a blindside) etc won multiple championship in Superrugby but that didnt make them great test loosies.
8 Jun 2011, 14:24 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-127: cheers man, good luck to your team and steggies on sat.
8 Jun 2011, 14:26 pm
@nama1(nama1)-125:
If Brussow is injured, you need Steggie: speed at the first phase of the break down by a little man is a must in today’s Test, like it or not
It means among other that you can’t play Spies or Kankowsky in the same combo with Brussow/Steggie, nontheless I am sure you penciled in already that tackles faker Johnson instead?
8 Jun 2011, 14:33 pm
@sparticus(sparticus)-99: Adi Jacobs (12, 14, 13), Jantjes, Rose (10 & 15), Newman, Odwa, Nokwe, Britz, Grant, Olivier, Bekker (pap in every test), Watson, Mujati, Reubenheimer, Johnson (Pap in 09), Carstens, Bobo, Januarie, Chavangha, Conradie, Kankowski (6, 7, 8), Butch James (12), Frans (15 & 13), Pienaar (10 and 15), Rossouw (6), Smit (1 and 3), Morne (15), Chiliboy, Adams, Maku, Jean (14), Hargreaves, Hargreaves, Deysel (utterly destroyed up North), van der Merwe (big disappointment, utterly destroyed), Louw (humiliated consecutively throughout the TNs, did well against Italy in 2nd test though, after an embarrassing first test), Basson (Did not adapt to test level at all)… I could probably find some more. In every poor selection de Villiers has ever made, he has a better option available. That’s the biggest gripe, he can not moan about not having better players available at those times. Instead it has nearly always been stubborn idiocy.
8 Jun 2011, 14:33 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-128:
“Hard worker but ultimately will not get selected above more talented,bigger,stronger more efficient,less penalty-ridden incumbents”
Saying they’re stronger, is opinion. Saying they’re bigger is fact (Louw and Burger). Saying they’re more talented and efficient is debatable. Saying that he is penalty-ridden- idiotic.
At least we’ve been debating all along. You haven’t brought anything to the discussion.
And you can’t say he won’t be selected above these, because he already has been selected above Flo and Daniel and every other loosie in the position when Burger and Brussow weren’t available. But most here prefer Brussow above Burger anyway, and Stegmann is a Brussow “clone” to many here, and IMO better than Brussow anyway, and certainly better than Brussow now, and will remain so till Brussow can demonstrate otherwise.
@rangerman(rangerman)-129:
Thanks, I think. And cheers for real.
8 Jun 2011, 14:34 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-130:
They are not little, they’re short.
8 Jun 2011, 14:37 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-130:
The “debate” was about an opensider. Ashley plays blindside/8th man.
You don’t know that?
8 Jun 2011, 14:38 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-130: in order of preferance:
at 6
Heinrich
Schalk
Deon
Keegan
at 7
Smith
Johnson
Louw
Potgieter
at 8
Danie
Willem
Pierre
Kanko
8 Jun 2011, 15:04 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-132: Brussow has put up the best performances of any opensider in SA this year. Nobody in SA is even slightly in his class. I say this as I Bull supporter, I backed Stegmmann big time last year, but he failed. As for Schalk, watching him get swatted around like a fly is disheartening. Not the defender he used to be, not by a long shot. His work rate at test level post-2007 has been questionable as well. There is no longer a place in the team for him. I’ll have Stegmann under Brussow though. That’s our best option.
8 Jun 2011, 15:33 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-108: where’d u get the metres gained stats?
8 Jun 2011, 16:08 pm
Victor Matfield is Bekker’s *** slave!
8 Jun 2011, 16:32 pm
@Pee Wee(Pee Wee)-138:
ja,ja Mr. Herman.
8 Jun 2011, 16:37 pm
Matfield is past it – has been for a while – some people just don’t know when to stop! He’s as valuable as a used sanitary towel!
8 Jun 2011, 16:42 pm
@Pee Wee(Pee Wee)-140:
Well, it depends on your point of view:
If you are marooned in the wilderness, your MOST VALUABLE ASSEST might be an old used sanitary towel. They are excellent at getting a fire started……
8 Jun 2011, 19:53 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-111: Yeah I know. But I was being 100% seriaas. (okay maybe only 98%)
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