249 Comments

• 1.Schweinsteiger:
  8 Jul 2011, 07:06 am

  Butch dragons!

• 2.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 07:36 am

  should be morne, butch and then lambie, or morne, lambie and then butch.

• 3.Number 8:
  8 Jul 2011, 07:42 am

  Anybody but Morne!

• 4.NZINCHINA:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:05 am

  From memory Butch has played the Ab’s 10 or 12 times and won twice but apparently we fear him, your need a tighthead not a has been 10.

• 5.TheTackler:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:11 am

  Butch is only a journeyman. No brilliance, no variation and no drop goal ability. His hallmark is card-gathering illegal tackling.

• 6.Dawn:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:13 am

  Another despatch from the back office cupboard at KEO headquarters.

• 7.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:14 am

  PDV has made 100 % the correct choice. M Steyn is the most 1 dimensional in the pocket skop en jag artist ever and will do nothing but further blunt a Bok backline that regressed so badly in 2010.

  As soon as the heat is on M Steyn falls further back into the pocket and poses no threat ball in hand. Fact is that M Steyn has a very poor tactical boot, Butch far superior in this regard.

  As long as we have the comfort of a F Steyn to take the longer kicks I am very content .

  And also note….Plod is a massive advocate of Butch at 10 ….just by the way!

• 8.Dawn:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:17 am

  Reyhan is getting fat from all the gatsbies

• 9.pakslae:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:21 am

  @Number 8(Number 8)-3:
  Agree, let’s just hope those knees last till after the World Cup. He’s the best option we currently have at flyhalf. We can build with Lambie and Elton after the World Cup.
  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-5:
  I’m sure the All Blacks will try and bait him like they always do with him and the likes Bakkies, knowing they always get the rub of the green from the match officials.

• 10.Jorrie_Habana:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:23 am

  Stop stirring prawn

• 11.Transformation:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:24 am

  FatBoys Club in the building….

• 12.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:26 am

  @Number 8(Number 8)-3:
  you’d think the bulls aren’t the super rugby champs 3 years out of the last 4 & a half?…

• 13.pakslae:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:30 am

  @NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-4:
  You should know better by now that in a World Cup history and records count for nothing.

• 14.TheTackler:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:34 am

  6. Peter de Villiers

  The southern hemisphere international rugby season hasn’t kicked off yet, but Springboks coach Peter deVilliers sure has. He is a favourite of rugby journalists the world over for his penchant for talking utter bollocks. This time he targeted Sonny Bill Williams, describing Williams’ offloading skills as “nonsense” and a bad example for young players. De Villiers was in the stands as Williams sucked in two tacklers and offloaded the ball to Robbie Fruean to score against the Stormers in their Super Rugby semi-final. Do you want pepper with that foot Peter?

  (from “10 Best moments of the 2011 S15″ — Dominion Post, NZ)

• 15.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:35 am

  @NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-4:
  its called player development, they’re giving him time haha…seriously though, i think its really just the coaching staffs ‘no-injury’ rotation plan for the top boks. they dont want morne worn down so are using butch instead for the dog work. they’ll give morne 1 or 2 outings perhaps & then run him at the wc.

• 16.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:37 am

  @NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-4:
  having said that, i think butch’s is also on the injured list? so there goes half my theory.

• 17.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:40 am

  @grant10(grant10)-7:
  how deep in the pocket was he in the 2009 trinations and the lions series?
  perhaps deep enough to score most of the points that won the tournament and the series?…

• 18.pakslae:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:43 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-17:
  What did Morne do in 2010?

• 19.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:44 am

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-14:
  peper poot hahaha

• 20.Dawn:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:46 am

  @Jorrie_Habana(WO_to_kill_Sir_Elton)-10:

  Aaaaggh jinne man for goodness sake come up with something better than prawn!!!!

  It’s getting boring now!

• 21.Dawn:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:46 am

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-14:

  So?

  S’ nothing we haven’t seen before?

  Anything else to offer re PdeV?

• 22.Dawn:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:47 am

  Magtag the quality of the insults on this website really sucks.

• 23.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:48 am

  @pakslae(pakslae)-18:
  he had to sidestep his forward packs ‘go back’ ball…
  and to tell the truth he did it a lot better than butch ever could have.

• 24.Dawn:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:50 am

  PdeV is not the only one who talks utter bollocks

  Lotsa people do.

• 25.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:51 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-17: he kicked a great penalty in the last minute, after coming on in 2 nd test against B Lions.

  He played the 2 nd half against B LIons in 1 st test and made a great test saving tackle.

  He is fine when Bulls are rampaging forward, as they often do, except for 2011 when he again was , at best , mediocre.

  He chokes away frm SA, all of sudden he kicks poorly. And tactically, except for the up and under, I have neber rated his tactical boot, he may kick far but ineviatbly it is straight down the opposition throat. Butch is a far more complete player….

• 26.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:51 am

  @pakslae(pakslae)-18: What did any of the Boks do in 2010?

• 27.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:53 am

  @Taahirah(Taahirah)-26: with plod and spies in the bok pack we will replicate 2010 form.

• 28.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 08:56 am

  @Taahirah(Taahirah)-26:
  my point exactly.
  they worked on their ‘go back ball’ game plan.

• 29.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:00 am

  James is the best and most complete flyhalf available to SA, however his current 83% goal-kicking stats cannot be relied upon in big test matches.

  I don’t think SA would lose a great deal by playing a Steyn/James combination at 10/12, they would certainly gain some width to their attack

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-5: if you really believe that then you either don’t watch or don’t understand flyhalf play

• 30.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:02 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-29: oh, and Butch is the one player who can wipe SBW clean out, u can’t offload if you’re destroyed in contact.

• 31.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:05 am

  Just because Ryan says it’s so doesn’t make it so. Morne may be being given game time because Butch can’t play, simple as that.

  Fact is, the team hasn’t even been announced yet.

  Ryan’s jumping the gun here.

• 32.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:10 am

  M Steyn is going for 1 reason only….

  Butch is the main man.

• 33.pakslae:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:10 am

  The Springboks played their best rugby, since ’98, after the World Cup. Their game was heavily based on physical dominance up front and the accurate tactical boot of F du Preez. Our set-piece play and defense was probably the best in the business and again I will mention that F du Preez was critical in this game plan. You only have to look at what happened in 2010 when he was injured. Our game was never based around a flyhalf.
  Now we’re seeing that the ABs and the Ozzies are getting parity in their line-outs against us, which they once feared. And they shading us in the scrums and tight exchanges. These signs are worrying ahead of the World Cup.

• 34.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:13 am

  @grant10(grant10)-25:
  and whose a_s_s did he have to save coming off the bench? the same a_s_s that couldnt do it even though the bok scrum was good & there was lots of go forward.
  he wasn’t choking away from home in 2009.
  the bok game plan fits in between a ‘pretty little boy with flair but doesn’t get us there’ and ‘i run very hard but kick very soft’ tactical expectation type, doesn’t it? and who fits neatly inbetween?
  a simple ‘ no frills no fuss (think tempest car hire) dead boot dropper & decent channel defender with a little pass to spare on the side’ tactical type.
  and we all know such a guy, don’t we? so lets fit the man to the plan….

• 35.Tacitus:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:16 am

  My view is this:

  They want to rest as many guys as they can. But they have to adhere to the stupid SANZAR requirements. They can’t get the medical professionals to issue false diagnosis or fabricated injury reports, so they follow a three step process:

  1. All the guys with serious injuries are automatically rested – Gurthro, Schalk etc. About 5 or 6 guys, I would say.

  2. All the guys with legitimate niggles, sore necks, calves, groins etc. can also be withdrawn with legitimate “injuries”. These are injuries they COULD have played with, if it was a World Cup final, but which could equally be classified as a legitimate injury if they wanted to rest the guys. This constitutes the remaining 15 or so players of the 21 on the injury list.

  3. This also happened to cover most of the A team. The remaining A team players who really have no injury niggles whatsoever unfortunately couldn’t be withdrawn. These include Morne Steyn and Pierre Spies. It is a case of UNFORTUNATELY, they are completely injury free.

  Divvy hasn’t changed his A team. He just couldn’t outright lie about guys with no injuries whatsoever.

• 36.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:17 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-30:
  yes, but you first have to get the wax on before you can get the wax off…
  seen sbw get his pass off after hits from harder tacklers than butch this season.

• 37.Transformation:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:18 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-30: by wipe him out you mean a high tackle with a headlock as sbw hits the deck? give us a break big hit, your sharks bias is laughable

• 38.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:20 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-31:
  ja, ryan should rather pick that gun up and go postal in the office. this info’s about the same in value as the first option.

• 39.Transformation:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:23 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-35: he has lied to us before, him and neels lebel sat at a press conference last year and said john smit is as fit as he was in 2007 and they have the gps readings to prove it!

  next thing you know we hear smit saying he was 127kg last year and now has lost the lard…bloody liars!

• 40.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:24 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-34: lets agree to disagree. M Steyn is part of the problem we have…..a 1 dimensional 10 that gets nothing out of the Boks pack. Butch brings so much more to the party, and out of hand Butch is far more astute a tactical kicker than M Steyn….

  But we wont convince each other….so I will rather leave it.

• 41.poppa69:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:24 am

  @pakslae(pakslae)-33:

  “the Springboks played their best rugby, since ’98, after the World Cup.”

  dont you mean two years after the WC, because in 2008 you guys were rubbish… proving that your WC win against fiji, argentina and Eng was also a phyrric victory…

• 42.Tacitus:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:25 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-39:

  Saw smit on Kyknet Afrikaans E-news yesterday, running around at the Cape Town practice session. He looks like a guy wearing a fat suit. He is way out of shape. Shocking.

• 43.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:27 am

  WPTID was at a ‘ do ‘ a couple of months ago with PDV and on this very site said that PDV had told them in no uncertain terms that Butch was the bok 1 number 10.

  And I say thank the angels for that.

  The sooner Boks can rid themselves of M Steyn, Plod and Spies the sooner we will be a viable force again in World Rugby.

• 44.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:30 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-35:
  thats my view also but they’ll go further and also rest the players they couldn’t create injuries for by playing the 2nd stringers in their positions.

• 45.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:31 am

  @grant10(grant10)-40: I’m not saying that Butch shouldn;t nescessarily be starting, just that I don’t think he will.

  My view on the scenario is this, and like everyone else’s, including the all knowing Ryan, it’s all speculation at this point:

  1. Is Butch injured? If he is then obviously he must recover and Morne is the obvious no 10, regardless of who is first choice. There is only 1 choice in this case.

  2. Butch isn’t injured. Then if he was 1st choice I’d be playing the guy as soon as possible. Butch has played very little rugby since coming home, with niggles and suspensions and playing at 12 and whatnot so he needs game time in the jersey against good opposition IMO if PDV is going to go with him as first choice.\

  If it’s 1, then we are no closer to the truth.

  If it’s 2, I’d then say that PDV is leaning towards Morne as first choice. I don;t think it makes sense to cotton wool him at this stage, he needs game time not rest.

  That’s how I see it.

• 46.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:31 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-42: It is now truly a massive headache for Boks…..

  Charles Mangold has been attending the Boks practices in CT and states that Plod is struggling…..

  With the lack of rugby he has had I would have thought he would have been in prime condition.

  I question the real hunger…..this is a bridge too far for Plod.

• 47.FOXTROT:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:34 am

  Well said Ryan! Butchie has what it takes against a pumped up SBW and RF hard hitting 10/12 channel, his distribution is unpredictable and brilliant and stopping and checking defence on the gain line is exactly what we need on attack! Gotta be our first choice.

• 48.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:34 am

  @grant10(grant10)-40:
  yes, your right i agree. i will disagree.
  can i just get the last chop on the plate and say ‘thats one party i dont want to go too’…butch on a dancefloor..no thanks…

• 49.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:35 am

  @poppa69(poppa69)-41: You do know a Pyrrhic victory is one gained at too great a cost, right?

  How is winning a World Cup pyrrhic in nature, seeing that it is the ultimate prize in rugby?

• 50.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:36 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-45: Mate….they are simply not prepared to send the 1 st choices on the away trip.

  If it was about game time Frans Steyn would need to be there as well.

  They are keeping the A team behind so that Nienaber and Rassie can work on that defensive system and Coetsee can do conditioning.

  It really is as simple as that. Butch is the chosen 1…..

• 51.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:38 am

  Butch 10, Lambie 15 – Stransky

  Joel Stransky believes that Butch James, not Morné Steyn, should be the Springboks’ first-choice flyhalf at the Rugby World Cup. And he thinks that Patrick Lambie can be considered as the starting fullback instead of at No10.

  The Springbok 1995 World Cup hero believes that James is able to better vary his play, while his strong defensive ability is another plus point.

  James arrived in Cape Town on Tuesday along with 48 other players for this week’s Springbok assessment camp.

  “I’m not sure right now that the Boks have an idea of who that starting flyhalf is going to be. To be fair, the way he has played, it should probably be Butch,” Stransky said.

  “I assume that that is the thinking, and they would probably leave him at home for the Tri-Nations tour coming up (the first Test is against Australia in Sydney on July 23).

  “I, right now, would go for Butch. His ability to make decisions, to play closer to the gainline, defending that channel. All of that, plus his experience, means for me that he would be the flyhalf. Butch’s kicking game has improved dramatically since the last World Cup, and even in that tournament, he kicked out of hand really well. He looks comfortable as a goal-kicker too, and looks natural. With his experience, they won’t look past him.

  “There is only one thing – whether he will stay on the field. It’s those hot-headed tackles every now and then, and he has had three or four knee reconstructions. His longevity might be an issue.”

  Stransky adds that if Lions pivot James is the No1 flyhalf, the Bulls’ Steyn and Sharks playmaker Lambie should get gametime on the Tri-Nations tour. “It will be difficult circumstances as some players won’t go on tour. We will see who puts their hand up and comes to the fore. Whether they play Morné or Pat, I think you have two great players there,” he said.

  “The other side of Lambie is that they will probably want to look at him as a fullback in the Test arena. In the last few Super Rugby games, he looked very good indeed at fullback.”

• 52.Dawn:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:40 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-42:

  “Kyknet Afrikaans E-news ”

  How many channels do you watch at once?

• 53.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:41 am

  @grant10(grant10)-50: Maybe. In Butch’s case I’d be looking for game time, Frans Steyn too.

  But ja, I guess all will be revealed in time.

  It’s a strange feeling that I have this time around (WC Year). I’m feeling oddly ambivalent about who gets chosen etc.

  Maybe I’ll “sharpen up” closer to the time.

  Maybe I’m still battered after last Saturday.

  Dunno, Just don;t get a great feeling about our current crop. Come the hour I’ll be screaming my head off like I always do. Just can’t work up a great deal of enthusiasm at this stage.

• 54.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:42 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-45:
  thats a sensible way to see it. butch needs game time and if anyone needs to be cotton wooled its morne. so whether butch really is injured is an interesting question because it means lambie will get more games then?

• 55.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:42 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-29: ‘his current 83% goal-kicking stats cannot be relied upon in big test matches. ‘ … Really BH? Those ARE his Test stats. He has kicked in 16 of the 40 Tests he’s played and that’s his return.

• 56.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:44 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-31: Butch will start at flyhalf in the Boks’ big games at the World Cup. Fact not speculation.

• 57.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:48 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-53: I share your ambivalence.

  It is a near Mission Impossible imho.

  But as you say, closer to the time the excitement will get to me !

• 58.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:48 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-56: Tough talk.

• 59.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:48 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-56: I Think it’s a bit premature to be calling a future event fact, but ja, he’s certainly one of 2 or 3 likely options for the flyhalf jersey…..

• 60.poppa69:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:49 am

  @Taahirah(Taahirah)-49: of course I know that…

  because instead of building a team capable of winning it this year, by bringing through and nurturing the talent, you are relying on the same crew who won it 4 years ago, even though they peaked two years ago and are on the downward spiral… you guys are hoping like hell F.Steyn will be just as good, that Juan Smith will return the same player he was etc… lots of gambles there…

  so that false sense of World Champs for four years is going to hurt your rugby for the next 4 years..

• 61.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:49 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-56: absolutely correcr.

  And a damn fine choice.

• 62.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:50 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-55: fair enough, but he kicked for Bath through the latter part of last season and had quite a few mares kicking at goal. Time will tell I guess.

• 63.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:50 am

  @grant10(grant10)-61: How ironic.
  Your spelling of correct isnt correct.
  

• 64.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:51 am

  naas Botha s preferred choice is Lambie…

  Stransky says Butch.

  Says a lot about M Steyn….

• 65.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:51 am

  @poppa69(poppa69)-60: Time will tell I suppose.

• 66.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:51 am

  @Taahirah(Taahirah)-63: LOL

  Freudian slip!

• 67.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:52 am

  @grant10(grant10)-64: Lambie is to Naas like the son he never had.
  Oh no, wait…

• 68.Dawn:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:52 am

  “Wellington – New Zealand police have questioned known political activists about their protest plans for this year’s Rugby World Cup, asking some whether they would alert authorities if contacted by terrorists, local media reported.

  Joe Carolan, an organiser for the Unite union which represents low-paid workers, told the New Zealand Herald “three massive lads” in uniform had visited union offices and asked about planned World Cup protests.

  Carolan said the policemen had asked “‘If any terrorists got in touch with you, would you contact us?’ And we just looked at each other. Of course we’re opposed to terrorism.”

  The Unite union is one of a number of groups planning protests during the World Cup in September and October. Carolan said the union’s protests would highlight the low wages of hotel staff and security guards.

  Meredydd Barrar, a spokesperson for the Coalition for Social Justice, said it and other protest groups were planning acts of “civil disobedience” to disrupt the tournament.

  “(We) intend to take action during the RWC to alert the world that New Zealand is not as squeaky clean as people might perceive,” Barrar told the New Zealand Herald.”

• 69.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:53 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-54: That’s the way I see it. I’ve seen bits and pieces of the “old Butch” this year, but not nearly enough to convince me that he’s still sharp enough for 80 minutes against the all Blacks.

  For me there really is only 1 critical game at the WC: The semi against the All Blacks.

  Yes I know every game is important yada yada and that Ireland aren’t going to be a walkover yada yada but the way i se it, whether we select Morne or Butch for those games won’t make a difference, unless James gets binned against Ireland and makes us play with 14 men. That could cost us for sure.

  The pool and quarters will be won or lost upfront really. The total combination becomes critical when you play the AB’s in the semis (likely). Then you cannot afford to leave anything to chance.

• 70.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:53 am

  Ryan.

  I have heard a little bird whisper that Brussow has indeed signed on the dotted line for the WP.

  Have you gents heard anything?

• 71.pakslae:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:53 am

  @poppa69(poppa69)-41:
  Yeah, 2008 we were rubbish. A lot of things happened after the World Cup with Jake White getting sacked and P de Villiers trying to play a more expansive game, which was ‘foreign’ to our senior players.
  In 2009 we reverted back to our old game plan and strenghts and we managed to white-wash the ABs and win the Lions series.
  What’s worrying me ahead of the World Cup, is that teams know how to beat us. If they dominate us up front, our game-plan is pretty much stuffed and they have a good chance of winning us. And with the one dimensional Morne at flyhalf, he can’t offer anything else besides booting it upfield.
  I don’t think Butch is that great either, but what he offers is the physical presence in that channel and he will strike more fear into the opposition and bring our centres more into play. Imagine SBW running at you all day behind a dominant AB pack. I would feel better having Butch there.

• 72.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:54 am

  @Taahirah(Taahirah)-67: LOL

  Classic

  You on fire my man!

• 73.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:55 am

  G10….

  Smit back at prop for Boks?

  Springbok captain John Smit may be cast into the role of part-time tighthead prop again when South Africa embark on their Tri-Nations tour.

  While the Tri-Nations will offer Smit a golden opportunity of giving his career as hooker momentum again, Werner Kruger is now the only fit tighthead prop of those still standing in the Bok training squad.

  It is believed there is a good chance that Kruger will be among the substitutes when the Boks open their campaign against Australia in Sydney on 23 July.

  If that is the case, the responsibility may well be Smit’s to wear the No 3 jersey.

• 74.Tacitus:
  8 Jul 2011, 09:57 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-56:

  Lucky for us then that World Cup semi-finals and finals don’t come down to penalties or drop kicks then, hey…

• 75.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:00 am

  @pakslae(pakslae)-71: spot on Pakslae.

  Butch will make opposing defences sit up and take notice…..and he will add steel to the defenceand limit the offensive choices of the opposition.

  Saders 27 nil win over Bulls ruthlessly exposed both M Steyn and WO on defence…..

  I would not want a Kiwi team running against M Steyn…….give me Butch there any day of the week.

  I would seriously also consider F Steyn at 12 for a test against Kiwis…..

  Sonny Bill may think twice with Butch and Frans in his face all day.

• 76.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:00 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-55:
  yes ryan, but both you and big hit should consider that stats don’t always paint the proper picture. who’s the leading points scorer for the 2007 wc? well, its percy montgomery with 22 conversions and 17 penalties and thats the point. butch was never the kicker for the boks if he had taken all the kicks for all the tests he played he would have had a much worse kicking stat percentage.
  now then, if butch goes to the wc as #1 then who’s the kicker?

• 77.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:02 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-59: The decision is made. It’s not premature.

• 78.Tacitus:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:02 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-76:

  It seems like Plod has a bit more influence than Matfield in team selection, if the James rumours are true.

  Maybe he just doesn’t want to carry the blame alone when we crash in the semifinals. Will be much easier to blame James’s yellow card than Smit’s fat arse.

• 79.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:04 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-73: yes….

  I heard Kanko, Spies and A Johnson have requested danger pay.

  And Ruan and Mc Cleod have been sent to counselling in preparation.

• 80.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:04 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-76: I don’t deal in hypotheticals – ie ‘..if Butch had taken..’ . I make a judgement on what he has done when entrusted with the duty. By your standard I could also argue that he would have kicked at the same or higher percentage. Make a call on the info available to you, not a ‘what if’ to support your argument.

• 81.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:06 am

  @grant10(grant10)-70: We’re chasing the story mate. Transfer season in rugby is almost as crazy as in european football. Early signs indicate Cheetahs won’t be able to match a massive offer from WP.

• 82.Tacitus:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:06 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-80:

  Available info: Montgomery was our World Clas goalkicker in 2007, Jannie de Beer in 99, Stransky in 95.

  Without Morne Steyn, we will go into the 2011 tournament with no reliable goalkicker.

  That’s the end of the campaign right there.

• 83.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:07 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-76: Butch will take the shorter kicks and Frans the longer kicks…..simple.

• 84.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:08 am

  @grant10(grant10)-75: what is your back 3 and scrum-half?

• 85.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:08 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-78: you are becomming just as pathetic as the other smit bashers??
  would you have to guts to tell him this face to face??

  You assume Smit is the selector of James, who tells you its not MAtfield? , or actually just the Book coaching staff??

  As for fat?? grow up man , name calling like a school girl because you trying hating anytyhing thats not a blue bull player

  And you try make out like ur intelligent?? nee wat typies van party swape wat niks in die lewe vermag het nie

• 86.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:09 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-81: thanks….I heard Brussow had signed on Wednesday…..but I have learned a long time ago that a deal aint a deal till the ink is dry.

• 87.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:10 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-78: Definitely a Smit inspired selection. But Matfield has made enough to still be firmly ahead on that count. Did someone say Wynand Olivier?

• 88.Tacitus:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:10 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-81:

  More available info:

  We won 2 World Cups – thanks to Stransky and Montgomery’s boots.

  We beat the British Lions once in the professional era – thanks to Morne Steyn’s boot.

  We lost to the British Lions once in the professional era – thanks to Andre Joubert’s poor boot. Jouberts general skills were irrelevent when it came down to his erratic goalkicking. Series lost.

  We won the Tri Nations twice in the last decade – thanks to Montgomery and Steyn’s deadly goalkicking.

  South Africa has only won 3 Super 14 trophies – each one with a deadly kicking flyhalf in place – first Derick Hougaard and then twice with Morne Steyn.

  The stats speak for themselves. Without a world clas specialist goalkicker/dropkick specialist we have no hope. It is just the South African style of play.

• 89.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:11 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-77: Ok so what you then should maybe have said is ” According to information available to KEO, Butch is currently the first choice flyhalf and the intention is to start him in the important games…something or other”

  On a point of journalism, you cannot state something as fact before it’s happened. Only death and taxes Ryan. Injury? Cards? Form?

  If you sometimes wonder why people give you a hard time here, this would be a good example. “Butch will start at flyhalf in the Boks’ big games at the World Cup. Fact not speculation.” is not fact. It’s actually speculation at this stage.

• 90.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:12 am

  A player like Butch gets inside the All Blacks head , if they will admit it or not i doubt it but Butch is that kind of player

• 91.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:13 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-88: On fire, Tac.

• 92.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:13 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-84: for the A team ?

  15 Frans

  14 JPP

  11 habana.

  Against the kiwis in a semi I am not so sure….

  Frans Steyn has been playing a lot of his rugby at 12…..and Kiwis pose a unique threat with SBW at 12….JDV has not really managed to combat him twice effectively this season.

  Maybe I would unleash Frans Steyn at 12 there….

• 93.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:14 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-82: Tac, come now, you know you are being irrational and your usually good analysis is being compromised by your allegiance to the Bulls. Have an early dutch cocktail (make it a double), relax and write on this subject later when you’re in a different, more rational zone. Alternatively, cancel your DSTV subscription, burn your Bok jersey and wait until October to be the first to write ‘I told you so’.

• 94.poppa69:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:14 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-90: perhaps one should tell Butch that to “get into the ABs heads” is NOT a literal statement…

• 95.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:15 am

  A lot of senior players prefer Butch at 10…..

  And PDV has never really been a M Steyn fan.

• 96.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:16 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-88: you also lost many games at the BUlls this year due to Steyns poor plaY and just kicking ball away

  amamzing how you try give Butch no credit for the 2007 win?? where he was probably the best 10 in the tourney, look at over all play ,

  I guess you only rate a kicker , rest of the game means zero??

  or is it as long as he is a blue bull???

• 97.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:16 am

  @poppa69(poppa69)-94:

• 98.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:16 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-88: James – 83% goalkicking in Tests Tac. Morne is only marginally higher. Why the pessimism? What is the basis or are you going to argue that the stats don’t reflect his aptitude in this regard?

• 99.pakslae:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:16 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-82:
  With Morne there against the ABs, penalties won’t make any difference because the game will be lost before the second half. Let’s face it, the Abs are the biggest obstacle we going to face in this World Cup. We will beat the Irish and go through to the semi’s with any flyhalf we have in the squad.

• 100.Ogre:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:16 am

  Thjis entire farce just deepens and generates its own momentum in its downward spiral like a jet fighter in a tailspin after being hit from behind by a guided missile, and its pilot is using the smoke from the smoketrail to blow up everyones a_r-s-e.

• 101.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:17 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-78:
  matfield really should sit him down for a heart to heart if thats the case. going to the world cup without a 1st choice kicker? iiiinteeeeresting…

• 102.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:17 am

  @poppa69(poppa69)-94: poppa get ur mind outa the gutter mate hehehe

  but jokes aside you know i am right

  Steyn holds no fear for you kiwi’s

• 103.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:19 am

  @grant10(grant10)-92: I think Frans Steyn is a better fit at 12 these days, he is still powerful and more creative now but seems to lack that out and out full-back pace at the moment. Who is your scrummie? and your 15 if F.Steyn plays 12?

• 104.Tacitus:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:19 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-93:

  Believe me, the “I told you so’s” will come aplenty if things transpire as you suggest.

  But rather than going ad hominem, why don’t you explain which of the points in my post no 88 you disagree with.

• 105.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:19 am

  @poppa69(poppa69)-94: LOL

• 106.whatever:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:19 am

  @poppa69(poppa69)-94:

  Same can be said of SBW and his league shoulder charges…………..never mind his brokeback mountain acting performance…………

• 107.Caper:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:20 am

  No doubt Butch James is a better all round flyhalf than the one dimensional Morne Steyn, but is there any flyhalf in the world better suited by the Boks’ type of game than Morne Steyn?

  Last year the Springboks played Bulls rugby, bombarding the opposition with up-and-unders, tactical kicking and big ball runners to set up positions for Morne Steyn to kick for some points. This game plan failed dramatically against the All Blacks and the Wallabies, but will PdV really wipe out the Springbok game plan of the past 4 years in a world cup year?

  Butch James is not the guy to chose at 10 if your game plan will stay the same. If you want to play Butch James, the Boks will have to play a more balanced game. Some kicking and some running, some bashing and some stepping.

• 108.justrugby:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:21 am

  @grant10(grant10)-95:

  Reeks of the 2007 fat boys club being extended to Butch ??

  I would personally also go with Butch, just hope he is able to stay injury free for the entire tournament ??

• 109.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:21 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-84: oops…sorry …

  scrumhalf would be FDP….then Ruan Pienaar.

  Need the tactical kickers over there i reckon

• 110.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:22 am

  my bok backline

  15 Lambie
  14 JPP
  13 Fourie
  12 F Steyn
  11 Habana (yes i would still select him)
  10 Butch
  09 Ruan

  20 Hougaard
  21 JDJ
  22 Aplon

• 111.Tacitus:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:23 am

  @Caper(Caper)-107:

  Exactly. We can TRY and play an expansive game, but we will lose. We don’t have the players for it, nor the ingrained habits or skills.

  Our only chance – and it is probably a one in three chance at that – of winning the World Cup, is to go with a kicking approach. Why are we ashamed of it?

  That’s England’s trademark game. Stick to what you are good at. We can do it, only we can do it better than England. We aren’t into the Pacific Islander type of game.

  Every SA team who has tried it has failed miserably. And changing our approach now, 2 months before the tournament is suicidal in any case.

• 112.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:23 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-96: I am with you here my man….give that oke stick …he only has blue tinted glasses….bloody plonker that he is!

• 113.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:23 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-89: Ok SB.

  ‘On a point of journalism, you cannot state something as fact before it’s happened. Only death and taxes Ryan. Injury? Cards? Form?’ – We were having an informal discussion on a blog and yet you now hold me to a standard not expected in that context. To appease you I’ll now interact with the muppets with the utmost professionalism. In which case I’ll now state – ‘Keo.co.za understands that Butch James will be the Springboks’ premier flyhalf at the World Cup’.

  Furthermore, it goes without saying that different factors could influence his selection – injury being the most obvious. Did I really have to say that? I suspect you were just being pedantic for the sake of strengthening your argument.

• 114.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:23 am

  @grant10(grant10)-109: Pienaar has been very good, a lot of motm awards last season, how was Du Preez’s form? I only saw a couple of Bulls games.

• 115.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:24 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-80:
  really ryan, really! your honestly going to suggest to us all here ‘to our faces’ that butch would have nailed all the kicks that percy ‘did’ in the 2007 wc? based on a judgment of what he has done when ‘entrusted with the duty’. really?…

• 116.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:25 am

  @grant10(grant10)-112: check my backline see what you think???? i know it might differ slightly from you , but to my mind that backline can make things happen

• 117.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:26 am

  @pakslae(pakslae)-99: farkit Pakslae….dont jinx it my man…those Irish in the wet will be helleva tough…you making me nervous boet….ooooohhh fark dont underestimate those farken irish….ever!

• 118.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:28 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-103: FDP…Ruan …

  If Steyn goes to 12 ….i would go with Aplon….

• 119.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:28 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-82:
  you’d think basic arithmetic was a simple thing. 1+1=2 and so on, but nooooo…
  there are those among us.

• 120.kaksioek:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:29 am

  Plod looks in shocking shape in the photo at the top of this page:

  http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/5255276/Springboks-boxing-clever-over-injured-stars

• 121.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:31 am

  @grant10(grant10)-118: for the extra kicker just in case i would play a safer Lambie @ 15

• 122.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:31 am

  @grant10(grant10)-83:
  and how do you accomodate both of them in the semi? 10/12? maybe…

• 123.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:31 am

  @grant10(grant10)-118: Also i think lambie is a better defender

• 124.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:32 am

  @justrugby(justrugby)-108: If Butch went down ….I would probably have to go with Lambie.

  2010 showed up M Steyn as a rather clueless skop en bid player that will nullify all the rest of the boks backs.

  He also seems to travel poorly…..would love to see his kicking % s away from SA…..bet it would make for intersting reading.

  That oke is a melktert and borewors kid….needs the home comforts.

• 125.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:32 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-122:
  sorry, i thought you meant butch and morne and not butch and frans…

• 126.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:33 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-114: Hiyas BH

• 127.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:33 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-113: That’s exactly what i was doing, but not for the reasons you suggest,

  As it turns out I’m actually a James fan, however I have yet to be convinced on (a) his sharpness, (b) his ability to remain injury free and (c) his ability to go without getting suspended in the tournament. Not like that hasn’t happened before to an SA rugby player. You know our record in front of citing boards.

  So yes, I’m being pedantic, but it’s not like you’ve never stated something as fact before only to have it come back through no fault of your own as not transpiring. And yes, you are a journalist so I hold you to a higher standard.

  All I’m saying is, choose your words better, Once posted they are here forever. Don’t let yourself get dragged down to the standard of some of the bloggers here,

• 128.John Galt:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:33 am

  I fail to see how putting Butch into a Bok side would automatically make the Boks into a running, expansive team. The Boks didnt win in 2007 by playing expansively and Butch was there at 10. His kicking out of hand is among the best SA have at the moment.

  Also, people forget the role FdP played in 2007. He will still be there to play his usual excellent kicking game which was used so efficiently in the last WC and if Butch plays anything like he did in 2007, at least our backline will have a better chance of success.

  As for goal kicking, 83% goal kicking in test matches? you cant argue with that Im afraid.

• 129.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:34 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-110: no FDP?

  I think Ruan would be a great bench player….as you then can do a 5…2 bench split …..this may be very nb if we play kiwis as we will need 2 x props on bench….and I mean proper props….not plod!

• 130.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:34 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-90:
  what? like 10 losses out of 12 in their heads?…

• 131.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:35 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-115: Are you going to suggest he wouldn’t have and if so, what would be your justification? What else do you want me to judge him on? I cant say for sure that he would have kicked those goals, but neither can you. Indeed, based on his 83% success rate, I can predict with a greater degree of certainty than you can refute, that he would have been successful.

• 132.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:35 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-111: Butch is a better tactical out of hand kicker than M Steyn….so he can replicate the skop en jag if asked to.

• 133.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:36 am

  @Taahirah(Taahirah)-91:
  its not fire, just facts…

• 134.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:37 am

  @kaksioek(kaksioek)-120: For me the only guy who actually looks in shape in that photo is Bjorn Basson. All the others looks a bit “soft”

• 135.Ryan:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:39 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-104: None of those points, Tac. But your pessimism re James’ goalkicking has no justifiable basis given that the boy has kicked at 83%, which is only marginally lower than Steyn.

• 136.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:39 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-114: Also hardly featured….so I reckon I am choosing him on historic data as opposed to current form.

  Ruan Pienaar was also superb over there by all accounts?

• 137.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:40 am

  @kaksioek(kaksioek)-120: lol it’s the illusion of the shirt design, funny tho

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-126: morning sharky, I think you’ve possibly picked the strongest backline, with the possible exception of Habana, has his form improved lately or might Basson be a better option?

• 138.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:41 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-116: I like it SL…brave and bold….

  For me its about FDP…if he is fit I would start him….Ruan is a brilliant bench option…

  I would have no problems with Lambie and or Aplon at 15, with F Steyn at 12…

• 139.Eish:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:42 am

  Peter Grant has to be the unluckiest 10 in rugby. We have the best all round 10 in he country not being given a chance.

• 140.pakslae:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:45 am

  @grant10(grant10)-117:
  Don’t worry, keo would jinx it if he said it.

• 141.Puma:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:45 am

  If this is PdV choice that Butch will be our fh for wc then well done.

  Morne kicks well and adds nothing much else. Butch offers us a whole lot more.

  So Morne will no doubt be back up fh. WHAT a damn pity they not gonna try out Lambie to start on the away leg of the Tri-Nations. Think Lambie adds more than Morne as well. Not kicking at posts but his all round game is way better.

  Would have loved to have seen Lambie playing with the backs we will have on this away tour. Just wish we had another inside centre other than Olivier. Doubt the exciting JdJ will be seeing much ball with Olivier and Morne there.

• 142.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:46 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-135: I agree with you on the conclusion that Butch doesn’t get enough credit for his goalkicking but when you look at those stats I wonder how many of those are close tange attampts and how many are from farther out?

  I watched a few Bath games this year when Butch took the closer ones and someone else the longer range kicks, which mostly have a lower success rate.

  In Morne’s case he takes them all.

  If we went for James I’d want a back up for longer kicks. Frams Steyn’s goal kicking ability is very erratic to say the least, and i’d be more inclined to only entrust him with the “Hail Mary” type of attempts.

  For me that’s the Gap. Morne is comfortable anywhere up to the half way line, and a bit beyond,

  Butch’s range ends at the 10 meter mark IMO.

  Lambie could cover that gap, his range is no problem, but then you have to play him at 15. Which isn’t a bad option, but I’d really prefer Steyn there.

• 143.Sharkie10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:46 am

  Seems like under all PdV’s stupidity, there is still some brain sells functional. There are many people that will disagree with him and prefer Morne to Butch.
  In my personal opinion, Butch is the best bet at 10. Morne obviously have the golden boot of Loftus, and there is no question about his kicking ability, i will go as far as to say that he is one of the best goal kickers in world rugby. But kicking alone will not win u the world cup.

  Many will argue that, most sides that have won a world cup and been successful at test level had a world class goal kicker, true! Larkham, Wilkinson, Merthens,Carter, Stranskey, Monty ( obviously fullback, but was our goal kicker in 2007). But the difference was all these guys were brilliant at reading a game and there attacking ability was of high quality! Something Morne lacks.

  Butch on the other hand is maybe not a world class goal kicker, but he is more than a capable kicker at goal. Some still question his aggressive defensive style, and maybe some will say he is too old and too slow, maybe that is true, but he is a more solid pivot than Morne. He has the experience, and the tactical game to go with it. He has been there, he knows what it takes to win a world cup. Morne must be on the bench, and only give Lambie a run against, maybe Namibia.

  It has been a proven combination, Du Preez and Butch play well together, and with Jean and Jaque in the centers, you have a a brilliant and experienced, 9, 10, 12 and 13 combinations. When opposition looks at a line up of the boks backs and see Morne at 10, they will probably be like ok, we cant make too many mistakes anywhere in our own half, he plays from deep so we can stop them behind the advantage line, and on attack we target his channel. When Butch is in that line up, He can kick his goals, but maybe get away with one or two penalties. then have to be careful as he takes the ball flat on the gain line creating opportunities for 12 and 13. And we do not run down his channel on attack!

  So the choice is, do you have a pivot that will kick 9/10 goals, and plays a very one dimensional game, and has a defensive weakness or are you going to take the guy who will maybe kick 8/10, gets the backs on the front foot and over the advantage line, and is solid in defense ( hoping his tackles are all legal of course)

  I Choose BUTCH.

• 144.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:47 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-142: tange = range.

• 145.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:47 am

  @Ryan(Ryan)-131:
  well then lets both agree that he WASN’T the FIRST choice kicker for the boks in 2007 wc. and, ryan, if we do agree on that then lets ask ourselves but why, oh why wasn’t he?
  more importantly, if he wasn’t the 1st choice then do think he could be the 1st choice now? and if not, then please answer the PHARKING question. who’s going to be our kicker in the semi?

• 146.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:48 am

  @Eish(Eish)-139: You’re kidding right?

• 147.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:48 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-121: Lambie and Aplon are both awesome players….Aplon does give you a left foot….

• 148.HHS:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:49 am

  @Eish(Eish)-139: Grant played himself out of that squad.

• 149.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:49 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-122: 10/ 12

  or 10 / 15

• 150.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:50 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-142:
  finally…a sensible assessment.

• 151.John Galt:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:51 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-142:
  So, an accurate goal kicker for the close ones and F Steyn for the hail Mary’s?

  I think you’ll find this is exactly what happened in the WC 2007. I think you’ll also find that Butchs range is a lot longer than Percy’s was.

• 152.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:51 am

  @John Galt(John Galt)-128: hear hear Mr Galt.

  We finally agree on something.

• 153.Puma:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:52 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-110: Good backline that. Though have to see how Ruan is playing. Have heard but not seen him play in the nh. Also we JUST may need a kicking game at some stage cause of the wet conditions in nz. Then start with FdP but only then. Cause he never really got back to where he was last year after the long lay off.

• 154.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:53 am

  @John Galt(John Galt)-151: bloody hell…

  I am starting to like you.

• 155.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:54 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-150: Thanks . Sorry about the spelling. Good thing I’m not a journalist.

• 156.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:56 am

  @Eish(Eish)-139: best all round 10 in SA ?? BwAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA yeah right , the man can kicker further then my 4 year old grandson

• 157.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:56 am

  @Puma(Puma)-141: well said Puma….you also now in my ‘ I like ‘ box.

• 158.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:58 am

  @Puma(Puma)-153: puma hiyas Brudda

  Kicking game of Ruans is as good as F Dups mate, and he been playing all year in wet conditions , Fdup has not

  Also Ruan is in better form, and has had a great year kicking at poles in wet conditions

• 159.Sharkie10:
  8 Jul 2011, 10:59 am

  Back line id go for:

  15. F.Steyn
  14. Jpp
  13. Fourie
  12.. De Villiers
  11. Aplon
  10. James
  9. Du Preez

• 160.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:01 am

  @John Galt(John Galt)-151: Yes. What about the In-between ones, i.e. as you said, the ones that aren’t “easy” or Hail Mary’s?

  It may sound like to you that I’m being overly argumentative here, but many test level panalties are taken between the half and 10 meter lines. For a kicker like Lambie, Steyn, Monty, most test level kickers this distance is not even a consideration. In Butch’s case I think you may find that Frans Steyn might be given that length of kick, and there’s the rub: His accuracy is much more inconsistant than say, Morne Steyn.

  Now I’m not saying that you base your flyhalf choice around this particular area of play, BUT I’m saying that if you pick Butch you have to think about these scenarios more than if you picked Morne.

  And yes, Butch is better than Morne in other areas, please don’t misunderstand me, this is not a punt for Morne or Butch per se, but merely abour their relative kicking prowess, and I don’t think that many would pick Butch over Morne in that dept.

• 161.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:01 am

  @grant10(grant10)-157:

• 162.Puma:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:03 am

  @grant10(grant10)-157:

• 163.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:03 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-160: good morning old bean ^5 lol

• 164.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:03 am

  @John Galt(John Galt)-151: BTW I disagree that Butch’s range is longer than Monty’s.

  You can;t back that up. All we can say is that Monty was preferred to Butch as a kicker and that Frans took some “Hail Mary” penalty ettempts.

  I’d be surprised if Steyn took a penalty attempt in his opponant’s half in WC 2007.

• 165.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:04 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-163: Hey T, howzit this morning? High 5 indeed.

• 166.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:05 am

  @John Galt(John Galt)-151:
  thats a load of ****, guy. i’m pretty sure percy did all the kicking – 22 conversions and 17 penalties. and for those of us who don’t remember percy kicked 4 penalties in the final.

• 167.Finfan:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:05 am

  Tacitus’ team: 15:
  Z Kirchner (Not the greatest, but knows and understands the kick and chase approach. In fact, it is all he knows.);
  14: B Basson (He chases Zane and Morne’s kicks quite well and sometimes even catches the ball.); 13: J Fourie (He used to live in Jo’burg which is not too far from snor city.);
  12: W Olivier (Well, a Bull is a Bull.)
  11: B Habana (He used to wear a light blue jersey and made the Bulls very proud a few times.)
  10: M Steyn (He personifies the Bok style of play: kick, kick, kick…ooops, defend, defend!)
  9: F du Preez (The best Bull forever.)
  8: P Spies (The poster on the wall is not enough, he has to see hom on TV every Saturday, poor form or not.)
  7: D Rossouw (A flexible Bull, if ever there was one: He can also play lock and even 8, but Spies is 8, so…)
  6: D Stegmann (Forget all the penalties, he is a Bull grafter of note. Thys Lourens reincarnated.)
  5 and 4: Bakkies and Vic (No arguments ever – the best lock combination in the world, especially when they are both on the field and the tough one is not asked to take a 10 minute break.)
  3: W Kruger (The only worthy 3 at the moment. And he plays for the right team.)
  2: B du Plessis (OK, Ralepelle should’ve been considered but he doesn’t speak Afrikaans and therefore gets the lineout calls mixed up.)
  1. G Steenkamp (He is a Bull and one has to play the right combinations in Tests.)

  The bench might include players outside Pretoria, as long as they are not from the Stormers, Sharks, Lions or Cheetahs.

• 168.Puma:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:06 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-158: Then we should start with Ruan. He and Butch know each others games well. Well saying that FdP played with Butch in the last wc but FdP just don’t seem the same player as he was last year or the year before. Has lost something for sure after that long lay off.

  What you think of them gonna leave Lambie on the bench in the away leg? Daft if you ask me. I would give him a start before Morne. We know well what we have in Morne. They should be looking to see what we have in Lambie.

• 169.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:06 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-137: BH BAsson’s defence is weak , that worries me ,

  If not Habs i would start Aplon or Mvovo at 11 then , and either of the 2 on the bench

• 170.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:08 am

  @Puma(Puma)-168: I agree bro , although i understand why they play Steyn , they know exactly what they have in him , it might not be the best , but it satisfies their needs

• 171.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:08 am

  @Finfan(Finfan)-167: Great team! Would replace Habana with Basson though…

• 172.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:09 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-145:

  i’m still waiting…ryan…

• 173.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:14 am

  my main worry is JDV at 12….seriously needs to step up imo….

  a bok back line of

  15 aplon / lambie
  11 habana
  12 F Steyn
  13 JF
  14 jpp
  10 butch
  9 fdp/ ruan

  Is a very decent one.

  Jake the snake spoke at length in a column in glowing reference to Aplon, raving about his left boot and the versatality and options it brings to the party.

  Now me and the snake dont always sit around the same campfire so lekker, but it is cool to have an educated left foot as well as the big ridht foot in the same backline.

  Now you start with FDP [ effective boot ] at 9

  butch at 10 [ underrated tactical right foot ]

  Frans Steyn at 12 [ booming right foot ]

  and aplon at 15 [ left foot ] and all os a sudden you have a team that will not easily be beaten when it comes to the kicking duels

• 174.Puma:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:17 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-170: I know, but we need to use these tests to see other players. Morne could be on the bench for this tour as back up. Just cause we know how he plays.

  Damn would have loved to see Lambie play with that backline. The only exception is Olivier at inside center. He hardly passes.

  Looking at the players to tour am quite excited to see how this young team goes. They could surprise many.

• 175.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:19 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-166: ja

  and Frans steyn kicked a hail mary to make it safe

• 176.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:20 am

  @Finfan(Finfan)-167: farkit

  I laughed so much I spilled my tea!

  Brilliant

• 177.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:21 am

  @Taahirah(Taahirah)-171: LOL

  Classic

  There goes my farken tea again!

• 178.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:22 am

  @John Galt(John Galt)-151:
  oh i remember, frans steyn kicked one penalty in the final. so i offer 1/2 an apology for post #166.

• 179.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:23 am

  @Puma(Puma)-174: , can agree with that bro

  would be nice to see new players making things happen, it is true , they already know what they have in Morne

• 180.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:24 am

  @grant10(grant10)-176: @grant10(grant10)-177: are you sure its tea??

• 181.Sharkie10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:25 am

  Again most predictable side from PdV…99.9% chance!

  15. F. Steyn
  14. JP. Petersen
  13. J. Fourie
  12. J. De Villiers
  11. B. Habana
  10. M. Steyn
  9. F. du Preez
  8. P. Spies
  7. J. Smith
  6. S. Burger
  5. V. Matfield
  4. B. Botha
  3. CJ van de Linde
  2. John Smit
  1. Beast.

  16. B. Du Plessis
  17. G. Steenkamp
  18. A. Bekker
  19. D. Russow
  20. Ruan Pienaar
  21. Butch James
  22. W. Olivier/ Adi/ De Jongh

• 182.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:26 am

  @Finfan(Finfan)-167:
  hahahaha very funny…even though the bulls have 3 out of the last 4 super trophies, still funny.

• 183.KWAGGA ROBERTSE:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:27 am

  Ag nee kak Ryan.

  Butch brings f-all to the table given his current form. Kicking at 83% sure but would it be possible to give us the stats of how many kicks were taken by MS an BJ?

• 184.Puma:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:27 am

  @grant10(grant10)-173: I really rate Aplon Grant. Probably my favourite Stormer player. He is fast and gets through the gaps many times not afraid to tackle any player much the same with Lambie he not afraid to tackle a player no matter what size and almost always gets first time tackles. I think with Lambie he has such safe hands under the high ball. Lambie and Basson one of the best I have seen under the high ball in years. Anyhow they both great players. Just have to weigh it up.

  My feeling Lambie is going as a utility player. Pity but then we do need players like that on the bench. Lambie can cover 10/12 and 15 equally good.

• 185.Papoose:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:28 am

  testing

• 186.Sharkie10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:31 am

  a team with no real boks experience!

  15. Ludik
  14. Van den Heever
  13. Ebersohn
  12. Doppies
  11. Mvovo
  10. Ebersohn
  9. Mcleod
  8. Vermeulen
  7. Alberts
  6. Daniels
  5. Sykes
  4. Flip
  3. Kruger
  2. Burden
  1. Oosthuizen

• 187.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:31 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-180: with milk and 2 sugars!

• 188.Puma:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:31 am

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-179: Anyhow Lambie is young and no doubt if he stays injury free could be around for the next world cup.

  He is just to damn fine a player to leave on the bench. But his time will come.

• 189.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:34 am

  @Puma(Puma)-184: Lambie should be at 10 on this away leg.

  Bench the skop en jag M Steyn…..give the youngsters a full go….

• 190.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:34 am

  @KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-183:

  you are hitting your head against a dead horse there man…
  but just for the fun ask him to bring up ms, bj and percy’s stats totals while your at it.

• 191.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:34 am

  @Papoose(papaown)-185: test passed

• 192.Puma:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:37 am

  @grant10(grant10)-189: Agree. That is exactly what I have been saying here today and yesterday. This is a great opportunity to give him a start at this level.

• 193.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:42 am

  @grant10(grant10)-189:
  like we gave ruan a ‘full go’, kind of ‘full go’?..

• 194.Taahirah:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:43 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-193: Not to mention Gaffie…

• 195.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:47 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-193:
  good move, ruin another little sharks life…(that’s a lot of funny with a bit of sarcasm)

• 196.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:49 am

  @Taahirah(Taahirah)-194:
  oh god! dont go there, some of the guys on this site are in the prime candidate for a heart attack age group.
  people could die…

• 197.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:50 am

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-193: Ruan never wanted that 10 jersey….

  I bet Lambie would love the opportunity to show his value.

• 198.Black Magic:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:52 am

  Butch James, a good choice??!!!
  Are you serious, he is a penalty giving hot head, waaaay over rated and miles out of his depth at nternational rugby. He is not half the player that Dan Carter or Quade Cooper are, and at best a fair super rugby player.
  The guy has never been, and never will be world class and if he is your number 1 choice, you are stuffed.

• 199.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:52 am

  @grant10(grant10)-197: I don’t think he had a poor game at 10 for SA, he played well, just didn’t kick at goal well.

• 200.Sharkie10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:55 am

  Butch ( experienced, good all round 10, good ball distribution, plays flat on the advantage line, creates space, kicks well out of hand and a more than capable goal kicker, defensively sound, must be first choice.)

  Steyn ( Extremely accurate goal kicker, plays from too deep, and kills the space with his one dimensional style, Kicking out of hand, not the greatest, defense is a concern, must be on the bench, as he can a close game with his kicking).

  Lambie ( Inexperienced, most talented and promising, great attacking ability, good tactical kicking game, solid in defense, goal kicking needs work. Definitely not world cup ready in the big games. Give him experience in the Tri-Nations. Definitely the future of the No. 10 jumper)

  All in all we need Butch at 10! IMO

• 201.Sharkie10:
  8 Jul 2011, 11:56 am

  Butch ( experienced, good all round 10, good ball distribution, plays flat on the advantage line, creates space, kicks well out of hand and a more than capable goal kicker, defensively sound, must be first choice.)

  Steyn ( Extremely accurate goal kicker, plays from too deep, and kills the space with his one dimensional style, Kicking out of hand, not the greatest, defense is a concern, must be on the bench, as he can a close game with his kicking).

  Lambie ( Inexperienced, most talented and promising, great attacking ability, good tactical kicking game, solid in defense, goal kicking needs work. Definitely not world cup ready in the big games. Give him experience in the Tri-Nations. Definitely the future of the No. 10 jumper) All in all we need Butch at 10! IMO

• 202.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:01 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-197:
  fair enough, i will concede the point. ruan did have a lot of baggage going into the position. just hope its not a case of ‘love meets reality and it ain’t pretty’ when he does get his opportunity.

• 203.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:02 pm

  @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-202:
  by that i mean little lambie

• 204.willievz:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:03 pm

  I can sense the Boks playing Morne Steyn at 15 come the semi finals.

  You heard it here first.

• 205.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:06 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-199: yip….got massive stage fright….

  but bottom line is he was always , at best, a reluctant 10…..

• 206.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:09 pm

  @willievz(willievz)-204: Hi Willie

  Heaven forbid!

  I am still trying to get to grips with the Schalk at 8 move….

  !!!!!!!!

• 207.Slumtown:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:10 pm

  Got to say this 2nd string team for the Tri nations is actually looking like a sharper bet than the 1st team bar a few players.

  1 Dean Greyling – damn excellent choice – that boy has got grunt deluxe and with Coenie on the bench thats a pretty dynamite loosehead combo.
  2 Ok Smit isnt the best bet but at least he is playing in his best position Chilliboy – time to haal uit en wys bud. I want to see why youre preffered above Adriaan Strauss.
  3 Werner Kruger – is Jannie dup relaly better than Werner? Good choice and maybe just shows up Jannie dup a bit.
  4 Flip – no problems there
  5 Now why you would pick Johann Muller above an excellent lock with major drive like Anton van Zyl the f knows but there you have it – dont think Johann will let us down but dont expect any jaw dropping play from him either. Hargreaves on the bench agg ja – not much to say about him either
  6 Brussouw – dang – i´m hoping this guy doesnt get injured again and start hitting some nice form – with Burger out at present its time for him to stake his claim to that 6 jersey again
  7 Danie – no problems here as long as he gets game time I´m happy – I´m keen for Danie to get the 4 spot ahead of Bakkies. he´s a more dynamic player and strong as f.
  8 Spies – well we know the score here – lets hope he gets some much needed form.
  9 Ruaan Pienaar – I would still have preferred to see Sarel in the squad and having Charl on the bench ahead of him irks me even more – but doubt wether Ruaan will let the team down. Not my favourite at 9, but he has x factor at times.
  10 M Steyn – I think Morne has improved a lot in the last weeks of the Super tournament and am eager to see how he goes going into the WC.
  11 Basson – hell yeah – this guy is dangerous on high balls and finishing – lets see if he can keep Habs on the bench . Very dynamic
  12 Wynand – again what can you say? Would farrrrrrrr prefer Lambie at 12 and Wynand on the bench
  13 Juan de Jongh – another dynamic player and looking forward to his involvement – I think jacques Fourie and Jean need a frikkin wake up call and hopefully Juan gives them one
  14 Lwazi – Jp Pietersen would have been nice but good for Lwazi to get some more game time in the Bok squad ahead of the WC – Lwazi is nice and strong and also a great finisher so I like the look of him in the backline
  15 Aplon – Aplon can seriously punish you on the counter attack – i´m not sure of his ability on the cross kicks and high balls but he is dynamic and makes it even more dangerous for the opposition to kick back at us. With Aplon, Basson, M Steyn and Juan de Jongh back there it would be a dangerous tactic so hopefully we get to play more in the oppositions territory.

  On the bench we have Ashley Johnson – who could well make a telling impact as a late sub and hopefully he can show why he should get a chance at the Cup. Odwa – agg ja – why he´s even there apart from the”experience” I dont know. He is too slow and a bit over it. Nothing wrong with him – he´s a solid player – just doesnt pose much threat. Lambie as I say gives us great cover at 10, 12 and 15 and hopefully he can be brought on to replace either Lwazi (Aplon to wing), Wynand at 12 or M Steyn at 10 with Steyn moving back to fullback and Aplon to wing in place of Lwazi. Nice combos. Also remember Ruaan can move back to 15 or slot in at 10 if needs be.

  Nice squad more or less. If Spies doesnt cut it I wouldnt mind seeing 6 Brussouw, 7 Johnson, 8 Danie – that could be quite a good combo.

• 208.Black Magic:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:13 pm

  South Africa has always produced some of the worlds best #10s, Naas Botha and the like, game breakers who oozed talent and could kick a goal from anywhere on the park, but Butch James?????!!!!!!……………………. He is not worthy.

• 209.willievz:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:22 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-206: Hi Grant,

  I would not prefer Morne at 15, but we need a reliable kicker if Butch plays 10. JDVs collisions with defense will also be more effective with Butch on his inside.

  Alternatively, I am fine with Morne at 10 but then we need De Jongh at 12 to make up for Morne’s lack of pace and deeper positioning on attack – otherwise we will just get caught behind the advantage line on first phase like we did in 2010.

  I also sense that PDV might actually go with Danie at 8 – the big, physical nr8. And I don’t have a problem with that, even though I prefer Schalk there for tactical reasons (particularly cover defense).

  I don’t want a repeat of the Boys vs Men scenario we saw in the semi-final at Newlands, and for that we need to bulk up in key areas.

• 210.BringItHomeBoks:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:28 pm

  @Slumtown(Slumtown)-207: Nice post Slummies!

  Agree with you about props – this could be a great combo

  Chiliboy played aswesome rugby this season, and finally had a good run without injury! He was playing as well, if not better, than Bissie in some games.

  How ANOTHER game for Spies will help him regain “form” (after 2 kak seasons surely “form” cant be used anymore?), I dont know

  Basson is awesome on high ball, but a bit worried about 1 on 1 defence. I could be wrong, and hope I am. Habana does not deserve to start on current form – as much as I love the guy and his games improved through the season. He was 1 of only 2/3 Stormers to show some guts and determination in that semi.

  Im OVERJOYED to see De Jongh starting, but am VERY worried that outside of WO he will never see the ball. Eveen more so with Morne at 10. But lets see…

  Loving Mvovo and Aplon at FB is his best possie.

  Go Bokke!

• 211.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:29 pm

  @willievz(willievz)-204:
  now that really is leftfield.

• 212.willievz:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:29 pm

  I am very keen to see a Morne / JDJ combination on tour.

  Please no Wynand at 12. Rather play him 13.

• 213.BringItHomeBoks:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:31 pm

  Eish Ryan – I wonder why the Boks wont grant you interviews anymore…?

  Pray you are never Bok coach who must deal with longer seasons, more games, more injuries, defend a World Cup with your OWN country’s media on your back, critisizing your every move AND a Tri Nations.

  You have no idea of the pressure Young One. To call things a “sham” and “a transparent one” (I think you meant “blatant” or “obvious” or “poorly disguised” but not “transparent”) is harsh

• 214.BringItHomeBoks:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:33 pm

  @willievz(willievz)-212: Ek stem – het presies daai amper geskryf in BringItHomeBoks(bokfan1)-210

  But lets see – if WO draws the defence in (which he can do) and manages to pass De Jongh could have some space to work with…

  WO is also a try-scoring threat in his own right….

• 215.trupisero:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:38 pm

  @BringItHomeBoks(bokfan1)-214:

  WO is also a try-scoring threat in his own right….

  Yeah farking right…

• 216.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:42 pm

  @Slumtown(Slumtown)-207:
  your kung fu’s good, guy…

• 217.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:47 pm

  @BringItHomeBoks(bokfan1)-214: @trupisero(trupisero)-215:
  ag meisiekind (sigh) you just really know how to divide other peoples opinions, don’t you…

• 218.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:52 pm

  @willievz(willievz)-209: i can certainly live with Danie Rossow at 8 given the conditions….would prefer Vermeulen but with that injury Danie or Alberts are the best options imo.

  I think the schalk at 8 move may be still born now as it is obvious schalk will not get a run there in tri nations and i am not sure he will be put there in wc games without the trial runs…

• 219.BringItHomeBoks:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:52 pm

  @trupisero(trupisero)-215: Hahaha, Im trying to be objective and positive. I am personally not a fan of WO, but he did score a few tries in S15 this year… altho he seems to go in ‘n dwaal when he puts the BOk jersey on…

• 220.CharlesM:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:55 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-218: I suppose you guys are talking about the best team – I couldn’t read the rest of the thread. Johnson was packing down at 8 this morning with Danie at flank

• 221.trupisero:
  8 Jul 2011, 12:58 pm

  WO’s stats in tests make for shocking reading. Don’t know if any other centre in world rugby has a worse strike rate.

• 222.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:00 pm

  @CharlesM(CharlesM)-220: Hi Charles….

  Yes…talking about the ‘ main team’…

  I hear Muller could not train?

  How did the boys look?

• 223.stew:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:02 pm

  @trupisero(trupisero)-221: He is **** – no discussion

• 224.stew:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:02 pm

  cr@p

• 225.CharlesM:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:07 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-222: Not too bad. Muller told me that his leg was a bit stiff. They did a long defensive session with the “A” team doing the attacking, while the other 10 available guys + Nienaber did the defence. Nienaber talked a lot but it seems that his system is starting to work. Afterwards the backs and forwards split with the forwards doing scrums for close to an hour. They rotated quite a bit and with only 2 props available, JS was given opportunities at 1 and 3 with Chilliboy and Strauss rotating at 2.

• 226.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:07 pm

  @BringItHomeBoks(bokfan1)-219:
  wynand olivier and ma’a nonu could be brothers from different mothers…

• 227.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:11 pm

  @stew(stew)-223:
  yeah, that’s an animated discussion about ‘nothing at all’, could be a monty python skit.

• 228.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:13 pm

  @CharlesM(CharlesM)-225: cool…thanks Charles…

• 229.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:19 pm

  @CharlesM(CharlesM)-225: dont mention smitty at 1 or 3?? Grant will spit his tea

• 230.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:31 pm

  @CharlesM(CharlesM)-225: On a point of correction re yesterday’s posts, Harry is Eben’s dad. correct. It gets confusing with those brothers. i used to avoid them when i could

• 231.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:34 pm

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-229: Read that. I think I can hear the “noooooooooooo!…….” from here…..

  

• 232.Sharkie10:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:35 pm

  Lets solve this 10 matter, most of us have different opinions on who should be in the starting line up.

  9. Pienaar( can also play 10)
  10. Steyn( is 10)
  11. E. Janjies ( not really a good wing but can also play 10)
  12. Butch ( can also play 10)
  13. Grant ( can also play 10)
  14. F. Steyn( can also play 10)
  15. Lambie( can also play 10)

  There we have a whole back line made up of potential pivots. Problem sorted. All can kick at goal, and all posses skills to be a good 10. Great balance of youth and experience! Hehe

• 233.youknowwho:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:35 pm

  Butch is an absolute necessity to fill the Quota of c unts in the team.. WO is overkill but I understand that with a drop in the number of blondes in the team he comes in to complete that quota but then there is also overall quota of Nazi’s and the Ruperts power card which is generall reserved for Schalk, JDV or Schalk Brits. FDP and Spies generally fall withing the Nazi quota but JR can pull his card for them too

  It is only after these selections are made can PDV concentrate on picking the best which could leave the team with a critical lack of real talent. He can however work within these parameters to get to the Semi’s with a bit of luck (Avoiding AB’s and Aussies en-route)

• 234.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:37 pm

  @President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-229: I farken did !

• 235.TheTackler:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:42 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-103: Frans NEVER passes the ball. Ever.

• 236.KWAGGA ROBERTSE:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:42 pm

  @youknowwho(youknowwho)-233: “Butch is an absolute necessity to fill the Quota of c unts in the team..” ;D

• 237.gunther is nazi-loving german rent-boy:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:50 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-234: get behind and support your national rugby captain you halfwit of a former nazi-loving sadf opressor now masquerading as a dp english-speaking liberal p ussy.

• 238.CharlesM:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:51 pm

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-230: Confront them at your own peril ! A classic about them: when you could still stand at Newlands in front of the Grand Stand, the Etzebeth brothers and “friends” were usually there as well. “Skattie” Etzebeth ( he was stabbed to death a long time ago while doing debt collection ) was trying to pick a fight: He looked at a guy and said: “Why are you looking at me like that ? ” The guy replied – “I’m not looking at you”; Skattie said: “Oh, so you are ignoring me” !! … You just could not win against them !

• 239.he's not the messiah. he's a very naughty boy!:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:51 pm

  @Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-232:
  hehehe they could take the kicking in turns.

• 240.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:58 pm

  @gunther is nazi-loving german rent-boy(Valkyrie)-237: LOL

  Jou moer man!

• 241.grant10:
  8 Jul 2011, 13:59 pm

  work to do

  outtta here

• 242.stormersboy:
  8 Jul 2011, 14:00 pm

  @CharlesM(CharlesM)-238: Yeah I grew up i the northern suburbs and they were a few years older than me but we stayed well out of their way.

  I knew many of the old goodwood families, so I was ok, but you had to be careful as you say…..

• 243.We are red:
  8 Jul 2011, 14:21 pm

  Mate this team looks average with the 21 so called injured players. As if TN doesnt mean anything in a world cup year. Are you happy to give up the mandella plate for the 5th time in the last 6 years?

• 244.Hondo:
  8 Jul 2011, 15:24 pm

  @Slumtown(Slumtown)-207:
  ” it even more dangerous for the opposition to kick back at us. With Aplon,”
  A brotherly support?
  Carter was kicking at Aplon and Habana all day long, it was a sorry farce to watch, even for the non Stormers’ supporters

• 245.Slumtown:
  8 Jul 2011, 17:12 pm

  @Hondo(Hondo)-244: well Aplon has shown himself to be a good counterattacking fullback so who knows. i wouldnt base my assumptions on one game. He does seem to have lost a bit of form of late though. Hopefully being at the Boks will sort him out. I dont think the Stormers as a union do much for players confidence.

• 246.Big Hit:
  8 Jul 2011, 22:08 pm

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-235: I’ve watched him play for Racing a number of times during the season, his distribution and willingness to distribute has improved.

• 247.Heavens Game:
  10 Jul 2011, 09:15 am

  Bok backline to win

  9 FdP
  10 James
  11 Aplon
  12 F Steyn
  13 Mossie
  14 JPP
  15 M Steyn

• 248.R.Etz:
  14 Feb 2012, 09:56 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-230 : Were do u get your information from? Skattie was never stabbed to death, he was shot. Don’t spread stories if u don’t know what happened man! (I’m a family memeber)

• 249.R.Etz:
  14 Feb 2012, 10:10 am

  The message above is ment for @CharlesM(CharlesM)-238

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