Bok scrum has nothing to gain
11 Jul 2011
JON CARDINELLI says the Springboks have missed an opportunity to improve their scrum by picking a host of second and third-choice forwards for the away leg of the Tri-Nations.
Dean Greyling, John Smit and Werner Kruger packed down for the first time in Friday’s training session at Ravensmead. Because of Johann Muller’s hamstring niggle, Alistair Hargreaves partnered Flip van der Merwe in the second row, while Deon Stegmann, Danie Rossouw and Ashley Johnson packed as the loose trio.
It would appear that this is the forward combination that will front Australia and the All Blacks in the first two Tri-Nations matches, and if this is the case, then there is good reason to be concerned. Not one combination has played together before, and on Friday, it showed. They battled for synergy during the session with the scrum machine, and will be hard pressed to find some collective form in the next two weeks.
Some might say that it doesn’t matter if the Boks fire at the scrum, as in a World Cup year the Tri-Nations tournament is not a priority. Indeed coach Peter de Villiers and the Bok selectors have intimated as much by picking a few players that won’t even go to the World Cup for the tour to Australasia. In doing so they’ve missed a chance to gather some momentum before the global tournament and address the flagging form of several key forwards.
At the beginning of the Super Rugby season, the Sharks’ scrum was touted as the best in South Africa. As the season progressed, the Sharks began to struggle, and not just when Smit was moved to prop.
Their best front-row combination of Beast Mtawarira, Bismarck du Plessis and Jannie du Plessis were hammered by the All Black-stacked Crusaders in the play-off match in Nelson, but it was by no means a failure in isolation. Those players, Bismarck included, had been battling prior to that fixture.
These players will play an important role in South Africa’s World Cup campaign, but they need to regain some form before going to that tournament. There will be no warm-up games as there were in 2007, and thus no opportunities to build momentum in the period between competitions.
The squad that will go to the World Cup will boast a number of experienced combinations. There are various systems and formulas they will rely on to bring them success, but at the moment, there is still a question mark over the scrum.
The inexperienced combination that travels to Australasia is unlikely to succeed at this set-piece, and even if they do, it won’t mean much in the context of the World Cup. Greyling, Kruger and CJ van der Linde won’t make the World Cup cut, and the Bok scrum will have to start from scratch when De Villiers brings back his first-choice players.
De Villiers may well recall the likes of Mtawarira and the Du Plessis brothers for the home leg of the Tri-Nations, as well as some other familiar faces in the second row and loose trio. This would allow the first-choice combination to address their shortcomings and possibly gather some form.
The worst case scenario is that we may have to wait until 11 September before we see a full-strength Bok pack in action. While Wales’ scrum may not be as feared as that of the All Blacks, they may fancy themselves against a Bok eight lacking in synergy and match practice.
It’s not a given that the Boks will make it as far as a World Cup semi-final showdown against the All Blacks, but they should be planning for the possibility. And if they make it that far, you’d like to believe that they would have an answer at scrum-time and not succumb as the Sharks did to the Crusaders three weeks ago.
116 Comments
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11 Jul 2011, 14:58 pm
@Hoops(Hoops)-99: good posts. Gary Gold wrote a great article about beating the hit, or crossing that imaginary line by getting the hit in early. It’s basically game over from there.
Those were those “moves” i was referring to in one of my posts above.
It’s far more complicated than just one front ranker being up for it or not,
11 Jul 2011, 16:17 pm
@Hoops(Hoops)-99:
Good points all, Hoops…
Again… it’s easy just to point out and jump on the ‘obvious’… well done to you and stormersbud for understanding the nuances of a mighty complicated and confusing part of rugby and articulating it so clearly…
Of course there are those who would say Toks doesn’t knows what he talks about…!! But I’d far rather listen to his input than our valkenburger friend…
and don’t stress about the typos… this aint no Spelling Bee…
11 Jul 2011, 16:30 pm
The Boks scrum will not gain cause SA Rugby dumped Os Du Randt.
11 Jul 2011, 18:05 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-98: well,a person that blames bekker’s 10cm height difference to elstadt as the reason for the stormers scrum problems should really be considerd an intellectually challenged person.
11 Jul 2011, 18:35 pm
@gunther is nazi-loving german rent-boy(Valkyrie)-104: Nope. You aren’t reading the entirelty of my posts in context, simply looking for a sound bit to try and strengthen your argument. Think about it. When you have a large disparity in height your scrum fulcrum will struggle to remain square in the hit, which is where everything happens.
I’m not suggesting that this is the only problem, of course. but it doesn’t help.
Take a front row of Gurthro, Bismark and BJ for example. This front row combo played quite a few tests last year. It wasn;t very successful if you go back and watch those tests. When they pack down, because Gurthro is quite a bit taller than the other 2, he has to stand further back in order to have his head level. So the front row isn’t square. The locks then don’t pack exactly next to each other. When you see it on the angle the front row looks massivley skew. Immediately you are at a disadvantge. If you watched any of the games live the effect would have been very noticable, if you knew what to look for. That’s why a front row of beast, bismark/JS and Jannie is actually a good fit as they work well as a combo.
The locks play a big role too. Bekker’s ability to transfer his leg power through to his scrumming partner in front of him is made harder because the guy next to him is significantly shorter than him. It affects the timing, and yes it is a negative effect.
What is crucial in scrum time is this, that your team work perfectly together as a unit. If you are scrumming against a technically strong opponant and you do not get this right, the front row will go down, or you will go backwards because they have the leverage on you.
Sometimes a front ranker does slip or miss his bind, but that is often as a result of the pressure behind him ctaching him in a bad body position, which is where the hit is vital.
The Aussies used to be past masters of this, if they didn;t get the hit they needed (they weren;t strong scrummagers so they rquired a superior hit to just hold their own) they simply slipped the bind and went down. Now that it’s a penalty offense you can’t do that.
Bekker’s size makes a difference, that is why the coaching needs to focus more on overcoming and compensating for these differences.
Now you can take my opinion or leave it, it;s all the same to me.
My original points stands, Brock is not as bad as people have made him out to be.
If you thing the whole scrum needs to be overhauled, give us some alternatives as to who we should be putting in their place, and not some unacheivabel dream list that we have no hope of realising,
Once you look at the alternatives out there, you’ll realise that there are very few, if any props that we could acquire that would make a significant difference,
It’s one of technique anoungst 8 forwards in the scrum.
That’s where the answer lies.
11 Jul 2011, 18:38 pm
sorry some of the spelling there.
11 Jul 2011, 18:42 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-105:
Why are you wasting your time with this lobotomised gibbon???
11 Jul 2011, 20:44 pm
@Gunther is looking to the future with hope in his heart.(gunther)-107: I do tend to do that, don’t I?
11 Jul 2011, 22:58 pm
Stormersboy thanks for the lesson mate
11 Jul 2011, 23:19 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-105: Im confused..
The saders have the best scrum in the comp, yet looking at Crockett in comparison to the Franks brothers there is quite a bit of size disparity? surely then their scrum shouldnt be that strong according to your theory? it appeared the same situation in the AB squad when hayman was at tighthead yet the scrum then too was very good?
or does Mike Cron know things most others dont about scrum mechanics (not to be confused with Januarie mechanics)… ?
12 Jul 2011, 00:15 am
This is such a waste of an article. Yes we know we are taking a weakened team for whatever reason, whether it be resting players or actual injuries – its been in every article over the past week.
The bok front row has been together since the Lions Series, they have had enough practice and game time over the past 2 years. To make them travel and play the away leg just to get some form together contradicts your earlier articles saying that we need to manage players with an extended super 15 in a world cup year.
A coach can never win, pick the starting bok front row in the tri-nations and he gets nailed for not resting / managing his players or not blooding new talent. Pick a second string front row for 2 tri-nations away games and the coach is lacking insight into building momemtum / missing an oppurtunity. Ridiculous.
What about usign these 2 tests to blood some players after the World Cup – is that not an idea or should we just follow England post 2003.
At the end of the day, the starting bok front row play together at the Sharks, have played 30 odd tests together and will have the home leg of the Tri Nations to get some rythym. Plus 6 weeks in NZ together before the quarters – so the article is pointless.
12 Jul 2011, 00:50 am
Well I think that this is a very strong front row actually: Dean Greyling, John Smit and Werner Kruger. I think Hargreaves is way better than Malteaser Muller all hard on the outside but soft on the inside.
The back row is good, not bad. Although I think that Oom Danie is a lock not a blind side flank and Deysel would be better there. And Keegan Daniel is better than Steggers, who is not bad though.
But overall Werner Krger should actually start at 3 for us in RWC – best tighthead we have playing inside and outside SA.
12 Jul 2011, 00:52 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-110: Crockett is a beast. I would beg to have him in my team. And both Franks boys are outstanding, and can grow beards better than any characters in Lord Of The Rings.
12 Jul 2011, 01:12 am
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-113: hey Soda, some will say Crockett drops the bind continuously or else he bores in on the hooker all the time… of course he may do that at times, but if you watch him closely before the hit his back is exceptionally straight, I think this coupled with his strength is what gives him the advantage.. IMO of course..
you think they can grow beards better than Gimli?
12 Jul 2011, 07:50 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-110: No, but you have a vaild point. Size disparity doesn’t automatically make for a weaker scrum, but it means that you have to be very used to packing next to each other in order for it to help. Having a taller loosehead (which is often the case) can help, BUT you have to work on the technique properly.
Take Gurthro in the Blue Bulls setup. He has no problems, yet struggles in the bok setup, because the combo is unfamiliar,
The problem with the WP setup is that they don’t work as a unit, and it’s there that the size differentials become a problem. Thats why I maintain that it’s more a coaching and technique problem at the Stormers than a personel problem.
The Crusaders are reaping all the work they’ve put in at the scrum. Consistant player selections, good technique, it all adds up in their case.
12 Jul 2011, 17:08 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-105:
Seriously bud…if you been in a scrum you dont want to be slipping the bind on purpose to collapse it. You would get locks wanting to get revenge on you.
I doubt anyone deliberately collapses a scrum…it is very dangerous and it sends a message to your own team mates that their safety is not important to you…or if it is coming from a coach that he is not interested in their health.
Your comment about the aussies are past masters with this is a bit silly…the body takes a hammering every time the scrum collapses.
I
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