Twin triumph
15 Jul 2011
RYAN VREDE chats to Robert and Sias Ebersohn about life, loyalty and the Springboks.
Sias is 35 seconds older. Is that reflected in the dynamic between the two of you?
Robert: Sias would tell you it is, and that he is older but most of the time you’d never say it. He’s not really responsible, although he is growing up now.
Sias: What?! I’m far more responsible than he is. The reason Robert could never be a flyhalf is that he just wouldn’t be able to deal with all that responsibility. You only need to spend a short time with us to know I’m the older of the two. He has no respect for his elders.
Do you share a close bond in the way that’s expected of twins?
Robert: No. Certainly we have a strong friendship, but we don’t spend all our time together. We have very different personalities and hobbies. Sias is far more outgoing and enjoys spending time hunting, fishing or tending to his cows on our family’s smallholding [just outside Bloemfontein]. We have a quiet understanding. Nothing will come between us, but we never give off that vibe.
Sias: He’s my best friend, but not in the way that you’ve become used to best friends being. I think our parents’ divorce strengthened that bond. We were 11 or 12 and we only had each other. We couldn’t speak openly to our parents about what was happening. It was painful for both of us, but the good that emerged was that we strengthened our relationship.
Are you competitive with each other?
Robert: Look, we support each other in our careers, but off the field it can get a bit heated. I’m the king on the PlayStation.
Sias: But I’m the owner of the PlayStation, so I determine when he’s played enough, which is usually when he gets on a bit of a roll.
What are your earliest rugby memories?
Sias: My dad [former Western Province and Free State midfielder Tiaan Ebersohn] took us to Free State and Springbok matches in Bloemfontein. I’ll never forget that time because it stirred the dream to play in front of big crowds. We also spent a lot of time watching my dad play club rugby, so we were always surrounded by the game.
Robert: Ja, we grew up in a rugby culture that only deepened when we were sent to Grey Bloem. In primary school after practice we’d often train again with my dad at his club, Collegians. On match days they’d order two Cokes for us and two cases of beer for themselves and we’d be part of the celebrations and banter in the change room after the match. We even showered with the team! So we’ve been immersed in the game from an early age.
Why has Grey Bloem been the dominant force in South African schools rugby for years?
Robert: That’s tough because there has to be more to it than good players, right? I think it has a lot to do with the pressure associated with the legacy of excellence at the school. For example, when I play for the Cheetahs I feel like I’m playing for the next win. When I played for Grey I always felt I was playing with the expectation of 150 years of success. You don’t want to be the team that is remembered for not meeting expectations, so you push yourself and your team-mates to ensure you don’t fail.
Sias: I’ve never known a Grey team to want to simply do well in a season. The challenge for us was to go unbeaten. That’s what we’d define as success. That plays a big part in Grey’s dominance.
Robert, you played sevens for two seasons after finishing school. How did that benefit you?
Robert: I believe it will add at least three years to my career. If I’d gone straight into Currie Cup or Super Rugby there’s no doubt as a 19-year-old who is significantly smaller than most of his opponents, I would have been susceptible to serious injury, particularly since I’d probably have played without a break because we don’t have the player resources the bigger unions do. Sevens allowed me to get used to mismatches of that variety, and also to develop ways to maximise my strengths to counter what I lack in size.
South African coaches seem to be losing their fascination with big backline players and we’ve seen the emergence of gifted diminutive men like Pat Lambie, Juan de Jongh, Gio Aplon and yourselves. Your thoughts?
Robert: We accepted at an early age that we weren’t going to get as big as some of the backs at senior level. Our parents are of average height, so we had a genetic ceiling. We’ve had to focus a lot more on improving our core skills and rugby intelligence, especially in contact, to make up for
what we lack.
Sias: Thankfully we’ve worked with some good coaches who’ve taught us how to get around our physical limitations. When we were with the SA U20s [Bulls defence coach] John McFarland worked with us on being smarter in contact, on building momentum into the tackle situation, and ball retention and presentation. That has stood us in good stead now.
Have you ever been tempted to bulk up using steroids?
Robert: Never. Our parents weren’t even keen for us to use normal protein shakes or supplements. We were always taught that a solid work ethic is key to your success. That said, I understand the pressure some schoolboys are under to get an edge. I’ve seen parents who put so much pressure on them to get a professional contract that you see why they would turn to performance enhancers. I’m not condoning it, but it’s a reality.
It was noticeable that the Cheetahs’ form graph curved steadily upwards when Sias started playing regularly at pivot.
Robert: He’s had to refine his game to make it at Super Rugby level, but I’ve always believed he had the ability to. I think his personality suits the Cheetahs. My mother always said that I think first then do, where Sias does first then thinks about the consequences of his actions. We needed that free spirit at flyhalf and it’s paid dividends. I love playing with him. He knows me so well and that in turn has benefits for the team.
Sias: I’ve had to be patient, and it was frustrating to see Robert get his chance before me. But the coaches at the Cheetahs felt my kicking game wasn’t up to scratch so I spent time working with [former Springbok flyhalf] Louis Koen in Cape Town and [Cheetahs backline coach] Hawies Fourie. Now I feel like I’ve got a rounded game without any obvious weaknesses. In retrospect I’m thankful the Cheetahs coaches didn’t throw me into Super Rugby while I had those flaws. I could easily have bombed and then been discarded. We’ve seen that happen to too many talented players in South Africa. I’m still not expressing myself as fully as I’d like. My strengths are my running game and my distribution – I think I have a better pass than most flyhalves in Super Rugby – and when I’m more confident I can use those strengths to create space and time for those on my outside.
Why did you guys stay loyal to the Cheetahs despite better offers [Robert was coveted by the Sharks and Bulls, while the Sharks and Force were after Sias]?
Robert: Sias and I want to be seen as a package, in the same way Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis have branded themselves. If we move it would have to be as a flyhalf-centre package. The Cheetahs offered us that opportunity and we are still young, so it made sense to stay. Sure, we thought about the fact that we could have won the Currie Cup with the Sharks [in 2010], but the Cheetahs are moving in the right direction and that is comforting.
Sias: It wasn’t a simple decision to stay. I wasn’t playing regularly at the time and the Force offered me the chance to do so. But time is on our side and if we are playing good rugby we’ll always be in demand. So the decision to stay isn’t detrimental to our careers.
Your contracts with the Cheetahs expire after the Currie Cup. Is it a foregone conclusion that you will re-sign or are you contemplating other offers?
Robert: We haven’t been offered new deals as yet, but neither have we decided that we will definitely stay. I’m not one of those players who’ll commit to a union for life. I haven’t even played 50 matches for the Cheetahs yet, so I don’t share an unbreakable connection with them. Our goal is to play for the Springboks and if we believe we can make that step up while playing for the Cheetahs then we’ll stay. Our immediate future is probably in Bloemfontein, but if in a couple of years we’re still playing well but still struggling to break into the Bok side then we’ll have to make a move. [Stormers centre] Juan de Jongh already has an edge on me because he has had the benefit of working with Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie every day, getting advice from them and stealing with his eyes. For the most part I’ve had to teach myself or learn from them by watching or playing against them. I don’t have their ears every day at training and in match situations. With no disrespect intended to the players and coaching staff at the Cheetahs, they’ve been good to me, but being surrounded by players who could take my game to the next level and make me look good is appealing.
– This article first appeared in the July issue of SA Rugby magazine. The August issue will be on sale from Wednesday, 27 July.
92 Comments
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15 Jul 2011, 06:54 am
learn to tackle dragons…
15 Jul 2011, 07:06 am
no mention of the “calming influence” that is corne uys? these boys are ungrateful.
15 Jul 2011, 07:13 am
Good luck to them. Talented for sure.
15 Jul 2011, 07:41 am
I guess I’m old fashioned, but I much prefer players like Morne Steyn, Fourie du Preez and Victor Matfield who have openly stated that they will not consider playing for any other SA union than the Bulls. Jean de Villiers and Schalk Burger probably also fall into this category, for the Stormers.
This open admission of ‘I’m just waiting for the union that can give me the best opportunity and I’m gone’ is simply too, well, opportunistic for my taste.
15 Jul 2011, 07:56 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-4: I absilutely agree. Loyalty is key, and the main reason for the Bulls success over the years. Once you become a Journeyman, your career is over. Brent Russell, Gaffie du Toit, almost the entire Sharks team since 1991 are prime examples. All did well, but never reached the hights that they should have. It will be a shame to see these 2 bright youngsters fall in the same trap.
15 Jul 2011, 08:14 am
Tough to be that patriotic when you play for the Cheetahs.
Not because its the Cheetahs but because, as a rugby player, your income potential has a shelf life.
There are only one or two players in the Cheetahs side who earn comparable salaries to those of the bigger unions. Juan Smith is probably one.
Tough one though. I do think being that loyal to a larger, more cash flush, succesful union is a bit easier.
15 Jul 2011, 08:16 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-4: Sorry, I don’t agree. Are you still working for the same company you started your career off in? The fact is you moved to organisations who offered you more growth potential, better oppurtunities, and generally has/had the same vision as you. The likes of Morne, Fourie, and Victor were lucky enough to have all of the above afforded to them by the Bulls, and in turn became Springboks through their franchises. Rugby is a professional sport, and with a lifespan of 10 years these boys better take every oppurtunity they can get
15 Jul 2011, 08:18 am
I rate Sias big time……watch that oke beat all the pretenders to the 10 jersey post WC…
15 Jul 2011, 08:22 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-4: what the he*l are you guys on about? Below is all the justification you need and why the meisiekinds of the world PALE in comparison to the JdJ’s and Sadie’s of this world!
“Juan de Jongh already has an edge on me because he has had the benefit of working with Jean de Villiers and Jaque Fourie every day, getting advice from them and stealing with his eyes. “
15 Jul 2011, 08:22 am
Interesting that they don’t consider themselves to have loyalties to the Cheetahs, considering that is where they received their first shot at playing professional rugby and considering the Cheetahs have likely invested a lot of time and money into their development. They would not likely have received the same opportunities at any of the bigger unions, and can be grateful that they get game time, unlike de Jongh, for example.
There are also a lot of talented youngsters who disappear in the academies of bigger unions, and never go on to fulfilling their school boy talent as their first team opportunities are blocked.
They have obviously been tweeting James O’Connor to get advice on how to “brand” themselves, and also on the importance of having players around them that help them to look good.
15 Jul 2011, 08:26 am
@Papoose(papaown)-9: Shame those centres can’t win a trophy for the Stormers.
15 Jul 2011, 08:26 am
Loyalty is nicely Utopian but I like the frankness of these guys. They only have so much time to achieve the most they can – both financially and experience wise, so they need to keep an open, realistic mind about what and where they play to ensure they achieve the most they can.
Take Willem Alberts for example – I remember seeing him playing for the Lions and thinking “Now there is player”, but he never featured in any Springbok mentions. 1 Season at the Sharks and BAM – Springbok….
Loyalty is nice to see but it will sometimes only take you so far, especially in such a “competitive” market.
15 Jul 2011, 08:31 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-4: Dont forget Danie Rossouw.
15 Jul 2011, 08:32 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-11: Got World Cup medals though
15 Jul 2011, 08:36 am
who cares what Tacitus prefers, let these boys’ careers flourish without being encumbered by archaic, narrow-minded ideas of what should constitute a rugby player’s career in south africa.
15 Jul 2011, 08:51 am
I think they are two level-headed and extremely talented players. I would be saddened if they ever leave my beloved Cheetahs, but I think they have something very special to offer the Springboks in a few seasons time. If that takes playing for someone else, so be it. But hopefully they will still be in the Cheetahs’ camp and that it will offer them everything they need to become the best in their positions.
15 Jul 2011, 08:59 am
I also like Sias passing ability….
Similar to the way Lionel Cronje passes….must be a Bloem thing..
15 Jul 2011, 09:04 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-15: I agree with you here.
You don’t own players.
It’s a pity that the Free State cannot engender more loyalty than is typically shown, but that has probably got more to do with the changed economic landscape of SA than anything else. As one of the 4 Capitals under the old consitution, they were guaranteed a certain place, but things have changed. Economics rule these days.
15 Jul 2011, 09:07 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-18: some people are just duplicitous and self-serving by nature, one week they’re openly praying & hoping sadie signs with the bulls and the next they’re sneering at other young players with the same aspirations to develop & succeed in the game of rugby
15 Jul 2011, 09:11 am
@scar(scar)-16:
honestly, i don’t think the cheetahs will ever be in a position to offer the bulk of their squads everything they need to become the best in their positions.
i dont blame the players, i blame the big heads running the union.
15 Jul 2011, 09:14 am
I think Sias was managed well. He was not thrown in the deep end of from the start. He progressed through the the age groups before he was introduced to S15. Some players can hit the big stage and perform and some needs to go through this progress. I agree with G10….. he is the one to watch with all these talented youngsters running around.
15 Jul 2011, 09:16 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-19: Yes I had noticed that
15 Jul 2011, 09:33 am
I also rate Sias, if he can work on his defence then he will defn be bok contender in few seasons. Flyhalves that is left footed generally look more classy and better prospect ala Carter, wilkinson and giteau.
15 Jul 2011, 09:37 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-4: Victor did not show that loyalty to Griquas
15 Jul 2011, 09:41 am
@ Tac, that word loyalty again! How did loyalty treat Johan Roets, how many test did he play? If he moved to the Wp or sharks to play more of running game then maybe he could have been a seasoned bok
15 Jul 2011, 09:47 am
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-24: Nor Bakkies to the falcons. Nor Brian to the Lions (or Bulls). Nor Francois to the WP…..
etc etc etc.
15 Jul 2011, 10:00 am
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-24:
@RugbyGuru_0_(RugbyGuru_0_)-25:
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-26:
in the land of the tic the one-eyed tac is king…
15 Jul 2011, 10:01 am
Quite enjoyed the honesty of the lads in this interview.
Nice one Ryan.
I hope you are going to publish Clinton V’s article on the Pampas…
15 Jul 2011, 10:03 am
he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha), Hehe! Don’t forget the can of whoopass! Hehe
15 Jul 2011, 10:08 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-26: bjorn basson to the cheetahs…
15 Jul 2011, 10:23 am
Both these lads are very talented and have bright futures ahead of them. Sadly the Cheetahs do struggle to match the cheque book franchises and one hopes that for a change they manage to hold on to their talent.
15 Jul 2011, 10:26 am
@ Stormerboy, Zane kirchner to griquas, reyneke to lions, jaque fourie to lions, vermeulen to cheetahs, liebenberg to cheetahs, bosman to cheetash, botes to pumas, danillier to bulls, benjamin to lions, murray to sharks, mapoe to cheetahs, Jlp to bulls and then to cheetahs, bees to cheetahs, Brock to griquas, sadie to wp. Engelbrecht to wp etc etc etc, this Tac is very narrow minded, tunnel vision, bulls tunnel vision
15 Jul 2011, 10:28 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-18: It’s got nothing to do with loyalty as such. It’s more the provincial bias of selectors! This disease already manifests itself at school level. How many years have the boys from Grey not dominated the Craven Week (like 2011), but when the SA schools team is selected, they will be lucky to have 4 players in the team. Rugby is a pro sport, and sometimes players that get ignored need to move to get the nod!!
Besides, they didn’t say they are just waiting for an opportunity, just that they haven’t closed their minds to possibilities. I pro approach I would say!
15 Jul 2011, 10:33 am
Eish.
What is this, “Gang-up-on-Tacitus”-day?
He admitted that he’s ‘probably old-fashioned’, therefor out of touch with modern day requirements on the subject.
He also stated that he ‘prefers’ the loyalty of a Fourie, Victor, Morne (hell, he even threw in a couple of Stormer-names!), nowhere does he state that he abhors players who does not go the loyalty route.
15 Jul 2011, 10:37 am
The Cheetahs would no doubt by now have been serious contenders in Super Rugby if they had held on to their playing staff:
1. Wian du Preez / Coenie Oosthuisen
2. Tiaan Liebenberg / Adriaan Strauss
3. CJ vd Linde / WP Nel
4. Corniel v Zyl / Dawid de Villiers
5. Wilhelm Steenkamp / Flip vd Merwe
6. Heinrich Brusoouw / Kabamba Floors
7. Juan Smith / Davon Raubenheimer
8. Duane Vermeulen / Ashley Johnson
9. Michael Claasens / Sarel Pretorious
10. Ruan Pienaar / Sias Ebersohn
11. Jonghi Nokwe / Bjorn Basson
12. Andries Strauss / Meyer Bosman
13. Ronnie Cooke / Robert Ebersohn
14. Phillip Burger / Rayno Benjamin
15. Frans Steyn / Rian Viljoen
15 Jul 2011, 10:41 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-4:
Bulls history between 1997 and 2002:
1997 – finished 8th/12 (W3 D3 L5)
1998 – 11th/12 (W3 L8)
1999 – Last/12 (W1 L10)
2000 – 11th/12 (W1 D2 L8)
2001 – Last/12 (W2 L9)
2002 – Last/12 (W0 L11)
Total – P66 W10 D5 L51
If the Bulls come anywhere near a repeat of their early Super rugby form of the 6 consecutive years above watch your “loyalists” disappear like rats from a sinking ship.
15 Jul 2011, 10:44 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-34: arsecreep
15 Jul 2011, 10:44 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-36: Nope, the loyalists will remain.
Even during those times the team sheet had names like Joost van der Westhuizen, Ruben Kruger, Krynauw Otto.
15 Jul 2011, 10:45 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-37: lol.
Knew that was coming.
15 Jul 2011, 10:45 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-34: do you also prefer the “loyalty” route or you have a thought process of your own?
15 Jul 2011, 10:45 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-26: Nor quite few Bulls stars in fact! Reuben Kruger, Gurthro Steenkamp etc
15 Jul 2011, 10:46 am
@fromthecouch(fromthecouch)-35:
Not so sure…this current Cheetah outfit has a lot of potential, a lot more than most of the teams before them.
Ask yourself this – from the players they have lost in the last 5-6 years, who would really have made a big difference in the current team? Not too many I believe. They have only really lost Pienaar, Vermeulen and Bosman of note. They’ve held onto their best, namely Smith and Brussow.
Not to get involved in counterfactual arguments, but I believe that if Juan Smith and Brussow played the whole Super 15 the Cheetahs might have finished in the top 7 or 8.
The Cheetahs are (hopefully were) their own worst enemy by not giving the likes of Pretorius, Sias and Riaan Viljoen extended runs.
15 Jul 2011, 10:49 am
@fromthecouch(fromthecouch)-35: nokwe played for wp 1st & benjamin for the lions before going to sevens…
15 Jul 2011, 10:49 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-40: Its nice to see, though realistically one can not expect blind faith from players.
15 Jul 2011, 10:50 am
@Cheetah 4 Eva(Cheetah 4 Eva)-41: Technically Gurthro is from WP.
15 Jul 2011, 10:51 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-40:
You show loyalty to a union by making 17 tackles and missing 0, not by staying on their books indefinitely…
15 Jul 2011, 10:54 am
@willievz(willievz)-46: agree FULLY!
15 Jul 2011, 10:57 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-43: point I was trying to make is that all these players have played for Cheetahs recently.
15 Jul 2011, 10:58 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-47: Transie, do you or anyone else know how I can change my nic on keo
15 Jul 2011, 10:59 am
@Griqua_warrior(willievz)-49: Hehe don’t worry, it is done
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