Boks won’t make Aussies’ mistakes
18 Jul 2011
MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day column, says the Springboks have always known what it takes to beat Samoa.
Australia on Sunday showed Samoa very little respect – and paid the price. The Springboks won’t make the same mistake at this year’s World Cup when the play the Samoans at the North Harbour Stadium in Albany.
South Africa’s approach will not have been influenced by Samoa’s first win against the Wallabies yesterday.
The Springboks have always shown the Samoans the utmost respect, and it is because the Samoans physically can match the Boks. Historically, though, the Islanders have managed an intensity that lasts only half the game and when the conditioning of a player isn’t good enough, neither is his focus or discipline.
The Boks have always known to prepare for a first half mugging from the Samoans with the knowledge that the second half will be a different game. The Samoans, to use a boxing analogy, have always boxed themselves out against the equally tough Boks.
The immediate reaction to Samoa’s win in Sydney on the social network services and among the media was rather predictable.
‘Let this serve as a World Cup wake up call for the Boks … Samoa won’t be easy … the Boks can take nothing for granted … and … and … and …’
There is no need for a South African wake-up call because Samoa, on the merits of the side that started against the post Super Rugby mix and match selection the Wallabies put together, were comfortably the equal of the hosts player for player.
There were more first-team regulars not playing than what started for Australia against Samoa – and don’t ignore this fact because of the romance of the Samoan win.
Samoa’s best played on Sunday. The history makers – as they will forever be known in Samoan rugby – either play Super Rugby or they play in Europe’s premier competitions. You only had to follow their end-of-year European tour to know they will not be easy beats at the World Cup. For those in need of a reminder the Samoans were within a few minutes of knocking over Ireland in Dublin and England beat them by 10 at Twickenham.
Every Bok who has ever played against the Samoans knows that the 50-point average score does not do justice to the aches and pains associated with the occasion.
Every match against the Samoans is a physical confrontation from which there isn’t an escape. Genetically their blokes have the edge, but when comes to will, strength of mind and strategic and tactical approach, the Boks have been the masters.
The Boks average 50 points a Test against Samoa, but in the last World Cup the first 40 minutes against the Samoans in Paris was probably the toughest the Boks played in the tournament.
The Boks led 9-7 at half time and Bok coach at the time Jake White admitted to not knowing what to do in the opening 30 minutes, such was the Samoan presence in any contact situation.
White said the first half physicality was something his team had not encountered against anyone and all that he hoped was that the Islanders would not be able to sustain it. They didn’t and the Boks won 59-7. The 2007 World Cup Samoan coach (the All Blacks great flanker) Michael Jones lambasted his squad’s lack of conditioning.
He said for Samoa to evolve as a team the players needed to be more professional about their day-to-day approach to rugby as profession. Jones specifically was referring to the sub-standard individual match conditioning when compared with the likes of South Africa.
He also said the team needed to play together more between World Cups and that it did not serve Samoa’s ambitions as a rugby nation that the only time they could field their best team was every four years at the World Cup.
The situation has improved. The core of the side that beat Australia on Sunday played Super Rugby this year and the others are influential players in Europe. Most of them also toured together last November.
I did not think Samoa would win in Sydney because I never have a belief in their ability to last 80 minutes against any of the top five. I also did not think the Wallabies would be so poor, but one can’t ignore the significance of the Reds first Super Rugby triumph and the impact it would have had on Australian preparations.
Mentally those Reds players were still in transit from Super Rugby to the Tri-Nations, and the others who were not involved in the Super Rugby final win played the first 30 minutes as if it was a contact training session with predetermined moves.
The Boks, against Samoa, have never made the mistake of not taking points, of not playing with structure and of not matching them at the breakdown. Give the Bok players the credit they deserve when it comes to knowing what is required to beat Samoa.
See the Samoan win yesterday for what it was … their best on a good day making rugby history against Australia’s second best on a bad day.
110 Comments
18 Jul 2011, 11:18 am
Respectful Dragons
18 Jul 2011, 11:31 am
I all honesty….
from what i have seen from the Boks and franchises in the last 12 months……
we’re gonna get klapped this year…
hell i hope i am wrong… again!
18 Jul 2011, 11:32 am
i = in
18 Jul 2011, 11:38 am
staal – If the Boks can play like they did against England, on the last game of the EOYT last year, then we should get to the semis. The Boks played very well v England, played to their strengths and their potential and it was a great result!!
18 Jul 2011, 11:39 am
If memory serves me correct, the Boks actually led 21-7 at half-time in 2007 against Samoa, and led 9-7 after 30 minutes. But point taken, they had a rough first half against the islanders.
18 Jul 2011, 11:40 am
I hope that Keo also remembers that this a home game for the Samoans – should be fun ….. It might suit the Boks however to only qualify 2 nd in their group – avoid the Abs till the final ?
18 Jul 2011, 11:42 am
Hey England managed to get to the final this way ?????
18 Jul 2011, 11:49 am
@stew(stew)-6: Good thinking Stew…hehe.
If Boks do finish 2nd in our pool then we may just get the dream final.
Heck how they seed teams so many years before a wc is just crazy. If Boks make it to the semi will be sad to see ABs or Boks out after that. Wanted to see a Bok/AB final.
18 Jul 2011, 11:54 am
I dunno hey, I was very impressed with Samoa, they played to their strengths but also showed an intelligence to their game I haven’t seen before. It’s an injustice to the Samoans to suggest that they would or could not have beaten the Wallabies “A” team on Sunday. I think their pack would have dominated the Ozzie “A” pack in much the same way. Congratulations to them, they seem to have grown as a team.
18 Jul 2011, 12:01 pm
And if memory serves, Samoa got a perfectly good try disallowed just before halftime in 07.
18 Jul 2011, 12:04 pm
@stew(stew)-7:
ja but France could beat ABs in the pool game and then they come second in their group too.
18 Jul 2011, 12:05 pm
@Puma(Puma)-8: Well we should of seen the dream final in 2007 – but hey we let you down …… Would of been awesome to see the Boks v ABs on neutral soil.
18 Jul 2011, 12:06 pm
@munkiboi(munkiboi)-11: Hey hey hey – we dont mention those frog eating scoundrels !!!!
18 Jul 2011, 12:13 pm
I’m not so sure Keo has it right here. I thought Samoa looked good for a full 80 and capable of beating any side on a given day. They are top 3 in the 7′s for the last 2 years. I think they are going to be tough to beat in the WC. I have never like their approach because physical is one thing but deliberately trying too decapitate someone is another. This attitude has cost them in cards and penalties so it has never worked. Perhaps they have matured .. it looks that way.
18 Jul 2011, 12:30 pm
More Keo twad… all the talk of respect this and respect that is bollocks!
The Aussies wanted a game to experiment with the green-horns, guys with little to no caps, players returning from injury and generally the fringe-players… this is exactly what playing an Islander team is for… this time it didn’t pay off the Samoans re-write the history books and the Aussie coaching staff get a reality check with regards to where certain players are at…
Dis-respect would be sending a ‘B’ team to play against the No1 and No2 side in the world!
18 Jul 2011, 12:34 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-15: Read your own papers. Articles in Sydney Morning Herald, The Australian and Courier Mail all slate Deans for disrespecting Samoa. And that before you get to the comments of Horan, Campese and other ex players.
18 Jul 2011, 12:36 pm
Finally an Islander team brimming with international experience acquired from a multitude of comps, has been coached with aptitude and put in a 85min 22 man performance.
In saying that… they’re still a very long way from beating a top 3 side playing their best 22.
Perhaps a knock-out could just be the next stepping stone for this team (a-la Fiji vs Wales 2007)…
18 Jul 2011, 12:37 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-17: ‘ an Islander team brimming with international experience acquired from a multitude of comps, has been coached with aptitude and put in a 85min 22 man performance’
Doesn’t that describe NZ?
18 Jul 2011, 12:37 pm
@gecko(gecko)-16:
You might be your opinions from the media… I make my own!
Go and ask any Samoan whether they feel disrespected or that the record-making win was devalued!
18 Jul 2011, 12:43 pm
@gecko(gecko)-18:
New Zealand does not have a single player that isn’t a NZ citizen and only a handful not born in the country or having naturalised as youngsters with their folks… so what are you on about?
The entire reason Samoa is looking better this year is due to the like of the Tuilagi’s that have been brought through Leicester and France or the Pisi’s and Mapasua’s who have had their games taken to levels not achievable within Samoa courtesy of NZ and their Super Rugby franchises and the list goes on…
18 Jul 2011, 12:44 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-19: Bryce
But aren’t you devaluing the Samoan win with your comment in 15?
I agree the Samoans must be happy, and I watched the game with great joy, and a sense of trepidation. But I can’t see Oz putting forward a pack that where they will be any more physical – and that is where they got done. Of course, I know Oz can be hammered up front, but still win with style, like vs France in November last week. But two weeks prior to that – their pack got done against England and they lost the game.
Once again, I must stress that Oz has such wonderful backs they can win any game. But this past weekend just showed again what they lack up front.
18 Jul 2011, 12:46 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-20: That comment about NZ was menat tongue in cheek – the ‘Islander team’ bit. Seems you haven’t got your sense of humour back since yesterday’s loss.
18 Jul 2011, 12:56 pm
@gecko(gecko)-22:
I support the Boks first in rugby…
But I get you mate
18 Jul 2011, 12:56 pm
As far as I know South Africa is the only country ever to field a player without a work permit let alone residence or citizenship.
18 Jul 2011, 12:57 pm
I think the Boks will go into their first clash the fresher of the two outfits.
The Wallabies’ players played more Super rugby games and experienced the brutality of the Samoans in contact.
The Wallabies will also be desperate to perform, which might lead to overeagerness on attack and plenty of mistakes.
Write the Boks off at your own peril, I think they will win on Saturday.
18 Jul 2011, 13:11 pm
@Griqua_warrior(willievz)-25:
50% of that 22 are not first choice Wallabies and only Ione from the Reds was played…
18 Jul 2011, 13:11 pm
@refugee(refugee)-24:
good grief! what a statement. where’s your evidence?
18 Jul 2011, 13:13 pm
@Griqua_warrior(willievz)-25:
i’m going down to the bookies later today…
18 Jul 2011, 13:15 pm
“Samoa’s best played on Sunday.”
Really Keo, really … Manu Samoa had at least 5 first team players missing, talk about not showing respect to them, tsk tsk!
18 Jul 2011, 13:16 pm
Since Robbie Deans started his tenure as Wallaby coach, I still do not understand his coaching approach and strategy with the Wallabies, at the Crusaders it was clear he was developing Wayne Smith’s plan.
After yesterday’s game against Samoa, Samoa has put forward an argument that the old days of using Samoa as a sounding board for coaches from the established unions to try out their theories has come to an end. Disrespect the Samoans and they’ll sting you!
18 Jul 2011, 13:17 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-26:
The yellow side that will run out on Saturday played more Super 15 than the green side.
I genuinely sense another upset here.
18 Jul 2011, 13:34 pm
Still cant get over the fact how stupid Nick Koster is! He cost the stormers that semi against the crusaders and now he cost them the weekends game. all that he can do is run, no vision at all. He makes Schalk look very smart indeed.
18 Jul 2011, 13:35 pm
There’s no question that the Wallabies will be competitive at the Trinations and the WC but it seems that at times their preparations for big and small tests are not that great. This should be a worry seeing that they are going into a knock-out tournament.
18 Jul 2011, 13:43 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-15: dont you mean 1 and 3 sides…
18 Jul 2011, 13:43 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-32: At schoolboy level he was a fantastic 8th man for Bishops but with his pace and level of ball skills Koster should move to centre at this level. He just does not look comfortable upfront and I think he wants to express his skills moreso where he has space. Perhaps the continual physical exchanges that can be incredibly frustrating for someone of his talent level will push him into a shell. Bishops play the type of rugby where everyone in the team is looking to either create space or run into it whilst moving the ball at speed with superlative skill.
18 Jul 2011, 13:44 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-15:
Oz dropped to no 3 today…
18 Jul 2011, 13:49 pm
Isn’t that a reasonable summation of South Africa’s use of the two Zimbo props? How did they acquire citizenship through which process? Wasn’t The Beast given citizenship after he had become a Springbok?
18 Jul 2011, 13:50 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-33: Good point.
18 Jul 2011, 13:50 pm
@Oxy moron(cjgrove)-36: There’s nothing much between 2 and 3. It’s anyone’s game on Saturday.
18 Jul 2011, 13:53 pm
@stew(stew)-6:
It presents a bigger conundrum than even that, Stew’ed.
Should the Boks lose to any 1 of Samoa or Fiji or Wales, it raises the immediate risk of all those teams splitting results and then the 2 x Qualifying spots coming down to points-differential. At which stage its a bit of a lottery, especially if your gameplan is based around kick’n'chase whilst the other teams are built on attack.
18 Jul 2011, 13:54 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-38: When Nick Mallet signed up Koster with WP Rugby when he was still at Bishops, Mallet’s view was that he’d place and develop Koster at centre, and thought Koster would be an encouraging proposition for WP, Stormers, and possibly one day the Springboks. I’m not sure what happened to that plan.
18 Jul 2011, 13:54 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-32:
i think the hype created around him has made him too self-concious of everyone watching him and the expectations for delivery. he’s in his shell a bit it seems. its a shame but its not the first time and he’s not the first player to have this happen to him. hope he gets over it.
18 Jul 2011, 13:55 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-15:
on 2 different occassions
18 Jul 2011, 14:01 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-35: True. I think with experience he will become more accustomed to the 8th man role. His vision will improve and his decision making will also improve. Schalk’s decision making is very good at the moment.
18 Jul 2011, 14:03 pm
@refugee-37 Clyde Rathbone first played for Australia while still on an SA passport . He did have residence but not sure if he was an Aus citizen when he first played for Aus.
18 Jul 2011, 14:06 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-41: Probably went when Mallet left. @he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-42: Hopefully in the currie cup he can develop a bit and come out of his shell.
18 Jul 2011, 14:11 pm
@superba(superba)-45: The list is endless. Rawlinson played for NZ but doesn’t have citizenship. Half the England team aren’t British citizens. In fact, up and till last year Manu Tuilagi nearly got deported from the UK, now in the England squad
telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/8438444/Leicester-powerhouse-Manu-Tuilagi-beat-deportation-threat-so-Leinsters-Brian-ODriscoll-holds-no-fear.html
18 Jul 2011, 14:11 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-44: I’d love to see him having more space consistently maybe at 13 with Juan De Jong at 12. The one glimpse of brilliance that I saw of Koster was at the first game between the Crusaders and Stormers, where Koster got the ball in space and was one on one with the Tom Marshall, the Crusaders full black, and gave him a potentially ankle breaking sidestep at full speed, Marshall did not smell him.
18 Jul 2011, 14:13 pm
The “the Samoans can only play for 40 minutes” line is a popular one – hell, the Aussie FoxSports boys used it in the days leading up to the game. And, in the past, it was true.
But now, these Samoan boys are professional athletes – most of them are playing Super 15 and Heineken Cup, etc. Even the ones that aren’t are probably playing semi-Pro in NZ’s ITM Cup (aka NPC).
They are just as “conditioned” now as most of their opponents. The real problem is their lack of time together, and perhaps, because there’s only 180k of them all told, a lack of absolute top-class right across the park.
In my opinion, they’ll scare quite a few teams badly (and beat them), but will also run into the same “lack of (top-class) depth” that the likes of Australia also do. They are very susceptible to injuries to key players.
And for good ol’ Stephen Jones & Co, the Samoans probably owe NZ rugby training systems a nod for their performance level – it’s not one-way rape and pillage of Island resources as they usually pontificate!
18 Jul 2011, 14:15 pm
@refugee(refugee)-37:
Both Brian Mujati and Tendai Mtawarira fulfilled all the eligibility criteria as set out by the International Rugby Board in order to qualify to play for the Springboks.
The issue of citizenship only arose in June 2010 when the sports ministry sent a letter to SARU saying Mtawarira was no longer eligible to play since only South African citizens are allowed to play for South African national teams in terms of South African legislation.
There was nothing underhanded about it.
18 Jul 2011, 14:18 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-46: I agree in time he’ll develop at 8th man no question but his type of game will make it very difficult for him to fit into the Bok set up, if he has ambitions for higher honours. Kankowski is a victim of a myopic Bok forward play approach, and there are some similarities between Koster and Kankowski. Perhaps more importantly, Koster finds it difficult to cross the advantage line in the forward exchanges, I think he lacks that hard edge that Vermeulen, Read etc have.
18 Jul 2011, 14:20 pm
@gecko(gecko)-18:
how does “from a multitude of comps” in any way describe the ABs ?
meanwhile Ruan Pienaar, Frans Steyn, Johann Muller, and many others, are registered with clubs from ‘a multitude of countries’ and thats not counting the ones also wheeled in on EOYTs….
18 Jul 2011, 14:21 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-52: BP – if you read further down, you will note I mentioned it was tongue in cheek. In theory, all New Zealanders are Pacific Islanders.
18 Jul 2011, 14:26 pm
@gecko(gecko)-53:
And a gecko does have a long and gifted tongue.
8)
18 Jul 2011, 14:27 pm
@cane(cane)-54: stop speaking with my wife
18 Jul 2011, 14:30 pm
@gecko(gecko)-53:
I note that you qualified it WRT ‘the Islander team’ bit, only.
New Zealand is in the Pacific but they are not regarded as a Pasifika nation. Neither do the uninformed seem to know to make the distinction between Polynesian peoples (Samoa, Tonga, Cooks, Easter Island) and those that are Melanesian (Fiji, Solomons, New Caledonia, Vanuatu, PNG).
18 Jul 2011, 14:33 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-56: Ag BP, I’m so sorry I didn’t cut the bit when doing the old copy and paste. Lighten up. Btw, no need to qualify Polynesian and Melanesian to me, my ex-Maori girlfriend did that 15 years ago. And it wasn’t mentioned in the piece.
18 Jul 2011, 14:40 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-56:
Easy distinction between Polynesians and Micronesians. BP.
Polynesians may have passed the ”Old SA Regime”, pencil test.
Micro’s would have a 100% failure rate.
8)
18 Jul 2011, 14:45 pm
@gecko(gecko)-57:
ex maori?
what is she now?
has she converted?
18 Jul 2011, 14:54 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-56:
Polynesians-look like large brown Asian folk with broad noses and big facial features
Melanasians-look distinctly darker in skin tone,features more african/ne groid like.aka: Fijians..look like Blackplotation movie stars really.Lol
Thats my layman distinction(aesthetically)
18 Jul 2011, 14:55 pm
@Gunther is looking to the future with hope in his heart.(gunther)-59: you can either choose to be maori or not, it’s a metamorphic process 8)
18 Jul 2011, 14:56 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-60: “look like Blackplotation movie stars really.Lol” bwahahahahahahaha you said it! richard roundtree
18 Jul 2011, 14:57 pm
@gecko(gecko)-57:
an ex-Maori
does that make her Polynesian or Melanesian ?
maybe it means she merely comes from a ‘multitude of’ peoples.
18 Jul 2011, 14:59 pm
@cane(cane)-58:
Melanesians, old boy. I didnt even get on to the Micro’s (Kiribatis etc) !
18 Jul 2011, 15:01 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-62:
I think you’ll find that is correctly referred to as:-
‘blaxploitation’
but I digress.
18 Jul 2011, 15:02 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-60:
big facial features?
hmmm.
I think the main differences lie in the canoes.
Maori canoes seem to have a canon and some sort of anti-theft system.
de facto new xealand navy.
the fijian canoes are for fishing.
the samoan canoes are for transporting rugby players to world cups so that they can injure south africans in the group stages.
18 Jul 2011, 15:02 pm
@Gunther is looking to the future with hope in his heart.(gunther)-59: haha – my mistake. My Maori ex-girlfriend. Although, I have to say she has the same hair colour as Paul Tito – who I see often around my hometown and always surprised with his shock of red hair and his Maori linage.
18 Jul 2011, 15:03 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-65: yes, keep digressing…
18 Jul 2011, 15:03 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-56: how the heck can keewees not be pacifikas? Polynesians, Micronesians and Melanesians, what’s the diff? When it comes to poaching the big two islands plunder all ‘nesians
18 Jul 2011, 15:06 pm
@RL(RL)-69:
Keep it simple, coconuts!
18 Jul 2011, 15:07 pm
@Gunther is looking to the future with hope in his heart.(gunther)-66: bwhahahahahahaha “you can’t go to war and mount a canon on a canoe” – peter de villiers
18 Jul 2011, 15:20 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-68: What’s your view Robbie Deans, personally for the last couple of years I’ve not known what his doing? Puffy, is clear on his approach, the three wisemen are always setting the standard, and no one can argue with them. What the hell is Australia up to? This question is not merely because they lost on saturday, they’ve let a few go, England when they toured Australia, and England then were not fancy at all.
18 Jul 2011, 15:21 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-68:
Its easy to make simple mistakes when youre not cut’n'pasting others I suppose. Im just trying to help you lift your standards, Transie, like any good coach would.
18 Jul 2011, 15:23 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-51:
Interesting post. Players such as Brits, Kankowski and Koster do not seem to be so powerful in contact as their more abrasive peers, hence they are often overlooked when it comes to test rugby.
I think this view is shortsighted and very unfair on these type of players. Getting over the advantage line should never be a one man show. You cross the advantage line most effectively when you have support readily available on both shoulders.
One blogger (I can’t remember who) once pointed to me that Kiwi teams almost always fall over the ruck once they collide, making it very difficult for the opposition to counterruck. However, since then I have noticed that they do not go about this in illegal fashion – the support players merely help push the carrier in contact. In short, they go into the contact situation creating a mini-maul if you like, and push defensive lines back a yard or two in doing so. Very, very smart.
Players such as Brits et al look like they go backwards in some contact points simply because they do not have the support on their shoulders – the support struggle to read his carry because he does things on instinct.
These type of players should not be used as primary ball carriers around the fringes anyways, it is not their role. Their role is a linking one, and carrying the ball when there is more space.
And remember, linking players also need support players, hence the need for different attacking groups of players around the ruck who anticipate the next point of contact and organising themselves accordingly.
And we lack in this regard – we do not group our players efficiently enough on the attacking ruck ball.
18 Jul 2011, 15:24 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-73: if you kept your eyes peeled properly you’d realise that Mshini wrote “blackploitation” not me…try keep up
18 Jul 2011, 15:32 pm
@RL(RL)-69:
Lets ignore then, for a just a minute, who is ‘poaching’ more from whom.
In the AB lineup from TriN, only Jerome Kaino and Mils Muliaina of the Samoan-lineage were not born in NZ, but received their entire education there.
In the Manu Samoa match-22 vs Wallabies
Paul Williams, George Pisi, Seilala Mapusua, Alesana Tuilagi, Tusi Pisi, Kahn Fotuali’i, George Stowers, Daniel Leo, Kane Thompson, 2 Mahonri Schwalger (c) Ti’i Paulo, Census Johnston, Filipo Lavea Levi, Brenton Helleur and James So’oialo.
are all, in part or in whole, ‘Kiwis’ having been born there or educated in NZ.
18 Jul 2011, 15:35 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-75:
*deep sigh*
exactly, youve now been reduced to cut’n'posting from the blog, and cant even get that right.
18 Jul 2011, 15:41 pm
@gecko(gecko)-67:
a maori ginger?
sweet lord.
wait a minute are you talking about Tahupotiki O’Toole?
18 Jul 2011, 15:42 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-77: *yawn*
18 Jul 2011, 15:43 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-79:
~chortle~
18 Jul 2011, 15:49 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-61:
a metamorphic process hey?
my cousin moishe wanted to marry a maori girl.
fine looking sheila she is.
the rabbi insisted she get her tattoos lasered before she was allowed in the shul.
sadly it all ended in tears as she was unable to give up baby back spare ribs
18 Jul 2011, 15:50 pm
@Gunther is looking to the future with hope in his heart.(gunther)-78: Indeed. Paul Tito now plays in Cardiff – see him around quite often.
18 Jul 2011, 15:55 pm
@gecko(gecko)-82:
paul tito is a funny guy.
I once wathced him get hammered on an open tab in cape town after a game.
he kept shouting “free piss… free piss”…
they don’t make rugby players like that anymore.
18 Jul 2011, 15:55 pm
@Griqua_warrior(willievz)-74: Interesting perspective, the AB loose trio are very cohesive in their play, and also their roles are interchangeable at times depending on the situation and who’s available. Jerome Kaino is a convincing ball carrier, who exceeds the gain almost always, and you are quite right McCaw and Read are effective supporters at the contact point by the time the heavies arrive, the base has been set. The Crusaders have been instrumental in how their treat a defensive ruck, they go through it maintaining their feet and create an opportunity for the counter-ruck and this process disrupts clean ball and slows any idea of quick ball. To effect this strategy body positioning becomes key, one has to be low enough to go through but have enough height to support one’s own weight. South Africa has always been beset by poor technical skills coaching, this ensures that certain elements of play don’t get due attention, thus the gameplan historically has a specific set of deficiencies that at the top level are challenging to conceal. Therefore, this ties into your position of there being a lack of support players at the contact, hence SA rugby relies on powerful forwards who have the potential to attack the gain line alone.
18 Jul 2011, 16:07 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-72: initially i lauded him for breaking the “power” cliques that were there and setting up the structure of the team as HE wanted it – unlike our pdv who succumbed to manipulation by senior players & s_ex tapes. he has benefitted a lot from what mckenzie has done at the reds in terms of mentoring the genia-cooper partnership and other players who were on the fringe – ioane – but now seem to be kicking on.
he’s been allowed to slide with poor results, mostly because of his reputation and the belief by aussies that “dingo knows what he is doing”. imo a 55% win ratio is UNACCEPTABLE i don’t care if you’re “building” for the world cup or not.
if his name wasn’t Deans and wasn’t riding on the success achieved while with the Crusaders, he’d be jobless or at least o’neill would’ve fired him.
18 Jul 2011, 16:13 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-84: Have a look at the Kiwi backline players in contact. They always have support going in contact (and straight-running support which ensure that they do not enter from the side).
Their 13 often takes the ball into contact on the skip pass from first phase, with the 12 used as a dummy. Being the dummy running a straight line, this means that he is automatically positioned next to the 13 who attacks the inside shoulder of his opposite number, and can support the ruck efficiently. The ruck is also supported by the closest wing or the fullback if he joined the line.
This means that their whole loose trio is available for carry and support on the second phase.
Compare this to the Bok team who more often collides with defenses using its 12. Here at least one of the back rowers gets sucked into the early ruck (usually the opensider) which means he is not available on the next phase as a continuity or support player.
Nothing wrong with our approach, but as you rightly mentioned our 12 often attack the gain line alone, and in the absence of support players we will always struggle to get quick and clean recycles.
18 Jul 2011, 16:18 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-76:
‘Kiwis’ having been born there or educated in NZ.’
Not born and educated? … or educated is code for poached
18 Jul 2011, 16:29 pm
@RL(RL)-87: surely if Mils got to NZ a5 age 6, nobody could tell he if he would be an All Black at that age…
18 Jul 2011, 16:39 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-88: his daddy knew, all daddy’s know
18 Jul 2011, 16:47 pm
@RL(RL)-89: like Enver Rose hey?
18 Jul 2011, 16:52 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-90:
no, like bernie habana
18 Jul 2011, 16:55 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-85: Deans comes across when he talks as the master of strategy, and he can somehow coach something special into a player or group of players, and bring a unit together to effect a result. I just have not seen a development of the team from year to year. Let’s juxtapose this to the Reds, McKenzie has demonstrated that for a team to judge where they are from the year, is squared on results, the Reds have the exact same problem that Wallabies have a lack of player depth, an inadequate tight five compared to SA and NZ but through superior tactical coaching, they are a team that tunes their gameplan specifically to a specified opponent. Teams that have a strong winning culture impose their game on you as they have the fire-power upfront to tame you, their backs merely provide an accent to their play. My faith in Deans has over the years waned and I think Steve Tew and friends were spot on to not pick him for the AB job.
18 Jul 2011, 16:56 pm
@Griqua_warrior(willievz)-86: Fully agree with you mate.
18 Jul 2011, 16:57 pm
RL
no, “educated” means just like you think it should be. Or, as opposed to “not even educated” there like Mujati or Beast. Or like half the England team.
18 Jul 2011, 17:02 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-92: quite right, results should be the name of the game, see father ted helped himself by maintaining a healthy win ratio going into the ’07 RWC, that swayed the NZRU to give him a 2nd bite @ the cherry i reckon.
18 Jul 2011, 17:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-95:
wonder if he’ll try that same lame old stunt this time if ab’s go according to script and lose the big one? or will he do the honourable thing and blame himself or his players? and not compile greatest (non)hits ‘looking back in hindsight’ videos blaming forward passes.
18 Jul 2011, 17:16 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-95: Deans did not help himself by arriving at the NZRU offices with himself only to make a presentation on how he’d mentor the Blacks. Whilst Ted brought inclusive of himself three international coaches who are the best in their respective fields. Deans should have known he did not stand a chance, then when he gets to Aus he brings in Jim Williams, who has done very little with the forwards, you can’t compare Jim to Steve Hansen, not whilst the living are alive.
18 Jul 2011, 17:19 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-97: hehehe
isn’t tew an old cantab?
18 Jul 2011, 17:20 pm
@he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-96: wayne smith has already signed to be asst coach at the chiefs, so even if they lose, i don’t see the trio, sticking together for another crack.
18 Jul 2011, 17:24 pm
@he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-96: Ted’s only able replacement is Steve Hansen, Wayne Smith has already signed up with the Chiefs. There’s talk that if the ABs don’t win the Cup, then Ian Forster, formerly of the Chiefs, will become coach, that’s downright scary! Forster is awful with forwards, Wayne Smith speaks highly of him on attack play, so Forster would have to have a very strong forwards’ and defensive coach because the Chiefs, leak tries as a matter of course. Fortunately Deans is still under contract with the Wallabies, and the Welsh coach has also extended his contract. Todd Blackadder needs a few more years at the Crusaders.
18 Jul 2011, 17:25 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-98: Tew looks after number one, and his bet on the three wisemen was dead-on. Remember Ted has throughout his career been the Teflon Don!
18 Jul 2011, 17:26 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-99:
ok. i think i read an article recently about hansen wanting the job post world cup, irrespective of results he said in the interview.
18 Jul 2011, 17:33 pm
@he’s not the messiah. he’s a very naughty boy!(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-102: It’ll be difficult for Hansen to make an argument for the top spot if they don’t win. He, Ted, and Wayne got a second chance, and guaranteed a win, he’s presentation to the NZRU after another failed campaign will have to be exquisite and laced with a brown very heavy envelope for him to get the job.
18 Jul 2011, 17:41 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-103:
yeah, its either hansen or smith who said so recently in an interview. but sure, there would be a process and i would be amazed if any of them got it if they lost. but then who replaces them and who would their assistants be? there doen’t seem to be any stand out characters apart from blackadder but he’s got a poor super record do far.
18 Jul 2011, 17:45 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-100:
Boof Hansen will get the nod, but only if they win, and only as a stop-gap measure. He certainly doesnt inspire as a Head Coach, and only just gets the nod as a fwds-coach; noticeable, however, that it was Lord Ted who fixed the lineout in 2010, and after he had fixed the Pack/scrum upon inheriting a rabble from Mitch & Dingo in 2004.
The AB Future is the next wave of tyros incl Jamie Joseph and Todd Blackadder. Dave Rennies reign at The Tron will add to the mix altho he’s in danger of any success being attributed to W.Smith.
Hammer Hammett has hardly covered himself in glory this season but his shift to Welly was a signal that NZRU are backing their young coaches.
18 Jul 2011, 17:56 pm
Nice one Keo, I loved this match and result, but it has to be seen in context.
18 Jul 2011, 18:16 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-105: Hansen may get a couple of years at the helm, my preference would have been Wayne Smith or Ted stays on for two years after the Cup. Todd needs another 4-5 years minimum at Super level, Hammett cannot be considered, he needs to establish a culture at the Hurricanes first, then we will see how he’s fared. I think the most likely candidates 4 years from the end of the World Cup will be Joseph, Todd, Gatland, Deans, or Rennie, my preference is that they build a team of top notch coaches, rather than the Deans autocracy with the Wallabies. I think Ted has been a better coach because of Wayne and Hansen. However, Wayne Smith did say he’d look at the AB job in the future, so Deans had better become a team player at some point.
18 Jul 2011, 22:13 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-4: Boks oplayed kak against england last year. you a fool boy. we were as blunt as anything i had seen from straeuli era! it was also the same rtipe that was seen in the tri nations… the worst tri nations in history. noting changed. only enland were very weak up front which is unusual for them.
19 Jul 2011, 04:49 am
Hasen will get the inside run for the coaches job after the world cup he has made it known he wants the job then again this is going to be hypothetical if they don’t come up with the required result at the World Cup at present their not much too pick from no use speculating on names that are taken up positions with other country’s they made their commit to those unions unless those union are unhappy with their performance then just maybe they might look at their S.V.(hypothetical) after all this job has more power then the leader in opposition of the New Zealand parliament
19 Jul 2011, 07:24 am
Keo should note that the Wallaby selection to play the Springboks includes 7 of those who started against Samoa and 4 of their bench players. He might want to consider the validity of his last line.
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