PdV ‘rewards form’
19 Jul 2011
The Springboks have named four uncapped players in their match 22 to face Australia in Sydney .
There are debuts for props Werner Kruger and Dean Greyling, as well as flank Ashley Johnson, who all start, while scrumhalf Charl McLeod could get his first cap off the bench.
Openside flank Heinrich Brüssow has failed to recover sufficiently from injury to be considered, but Johann Muller has, and starts in the second row. CJ van der Linde, who Springbok coach last week said was a serious injury concern, plays off the wood.
The versatile Danie Rossouw is deployed at blindside flank in a back row that features Johnson and Bulls fetcher Deon Stegmann. In the back division Ruan Pienaar and Morné Steyn run on as the halfback pair, with Wynand Olivier and Juan de Jongh in midfield.
The back three features players with pace to burn in the form of Gio Aplon, Bjorn Basson and Lwazi Mvovo.
Springbok coach Peter de Villiers said: ‘The new caps had outstanding Super Rugby seasons and this is an exciting opportunity for them. They have been rewarded for their form and now it’s up to them. We have got some new combinations, but there is a lot of potential in this side and the players are hungry for this chance.’
The inexperience of the pack is a concern, in particular the two rookie props. However, captain John Smit expressed his utmost confidence in them.
‘They’ll be nervous and I’m pretty sure Australia will want to have a crack at them as well up front,’ he said. “I’m sure they’ll understand that but the boys have stepped up every week in Super 15 so I can’t see it being any different in a Test match.’
The players in the squad to miss out on selections are: Brüssow, Elton Jantjies, Ryan Kankowski, Odwa Ndungane, Coenie Oosthuizen and Adriaan Strauss.
South Africa: 15 Gio Aplon, 14 Bjorn Basson, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Wynand Olivier, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Ashley Johnson, 7 Danie Rossouw, 6 Deon Stegmann, 5 Johann Muller, 4 Flip van der Merwe, 3 Werner Kruger, 2 John Smit (c), 1 Dean Greyling.
Subs: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 CJ van der Linde, 18 Alistair Hargreaves, 19 Jean Deysel, 20 Charl McLeod, 21 Adi Jacobs, 22 Pat Lambie.
540 Comments
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19 Jul 2011, 16:45 pm
@charo(charo)-393:
those poodles mustn’t flaunt themselves.
speaking of beautiful phrases I see Pink Floyd Shivambu said the league was “utterly disgusted” by Chamber of Mines chief executive Bheki Sibiya’s “ventilations and rantings”.
19 Jul 2011, 16:47 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-385:
Yet again you like others compare Daniel to Stegman… apples with oranges…
Compare Daniel with Johnson… same role played… for the most part specifically defence (where AJ was the worst loose-forward in the competion, in fact the 4th worst player overall) Daniel shaded him… except line-breaks and tries which is where AJ was noticed by so many…
19 Jul 2011, 16:47 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-398: @Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-398: admit it that you boy is ****.if moody’s had to rate him they would have given him junk status similar to what they have just did to the irish economy.
19 Jul 2011, 16:50 pm
http://www.rugbystats.com.au/rugby/super15/player-stats.html?refresh=1311086846242
All the ARU S15 stats (up to semi’s) summarised and complied in conjunction with the SMH…
I have plenty more in-depth individual stats too if you want them…
19 Jul 2011, 16:52 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-399:
15th and there were 13 ties, so….
Daniel played more than Stegmann.
And pifering is not the main job of “fetchers”.
A direct pilfer or t/o is nice. But there are many cases where they simply won’t be recorded because of the nature of rucks.
Or even this:
Watch the Bulls-Highlanders game, the stats do not record this:
The loose ball was scrapped by Adam Thomson, and Stegmann arrived there a few splitseconds later and bent Thomson over and reached around to Thomson’s backside and slapped the ball back towards the Bulls side. After the game no t/o was giving to Stegmann for this. Because it was considered a knockon.
There are many more incidences where a flank will greatly aid in a t/o or initiate one, but these are a very difficult area of the game to score. Plain attendance at the ruck not so hard, but what goes on down theree can be.
But there you have it.
19 Jul 2011, 16:53 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-377:
Ok fair enough.Daniel isnt a true opensider-should be compared to Potgieter who falls into the same category.not a true opensider, no a true blindside.somewhere in the middle,difference is Daniel seems to have more of X-factor when it comes to ball in hand(linebreaks,off loads).Stegman doesnt fall in this category as he is a true opensider
Now regarding Smith/Waugh-in the mif 2000′s around 2005-07/8′ especially there was a time Waugh seemed to surpass Smith in workrate leading to the more skilled Smith to move to 8 then later bench which I never understood.As busy as Waugh was he was nowhere as effective as Smith who tended to pick his moments very well for effectiveness,seemed to get turnover at crucial moments of games, slow game down at crucial times with little penalty count against him.
Your acccurary comment I guess you are alluding to Frans Louw-who personally I dont see as the answer as blindside but rate them in same region with Stegmann.Now in slowing the ball down-does Stegmann really effect this very well? Because I have watched Bulls games where he hasnt listen to ref repeatedly.He tends to do it in the red zone/inside own half at well especially around 10 and 22m area.Now i could be mistaken by i see this more from him than the other flankers,it may indeed be due to his higher workrate but he does seem NOT to pick his moments well enough at times.
Now my efficiency standpoint alludes to him being able to pick his moment especially at crucial periods in a game to effect turnovers (much like Matfield in his prime concerning lineouts) instead of just rabidly contesting EVERY single breakdown rendering him ineffective at times and tend to seem to e giveing away penalties because also refs play into that way of thought.
19 Jul 2011, 16:54 pm
Whatever happened to Harry the Beachwalker, Sheriff et al
19 Jul 2011, 16:55 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-402:
No mate, they are vying for one position in one team, and they compared him for the job above Stegmann, so I’m just helping, contributing to the debate. See?
It is not apples and oranges.
19 Jul 2011, 16:55 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-396: where was stegmann? mr vanish
19 Jul 2011, 16:56 pm
@topaz(topaz)-403:
Wow super comment. Refer to post #320.
19 Jul 2011, 16:58 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-364: Isn’t it strange that you put a response first rather than the comment made?, is it just sheer coincidence that has no reflection on your state of mind?.
Besides my comment wouldn’t have been made of Cardinelli and co. made sure that relics like Hondo don’t spew forth their garbage on this forum.
19 Jul 2011, 16:59 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-399: i thought Daniels played less minutes than Steggies but Agile here quoted some stats, maybe he can TELL us where he got the “minutes played” by Daniels amd you can too Money_Man.
19 Jul 2011, 17:00 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-411: yea, a self-regulating forum is certainly better than someone issuing arbitary bans
19 Jul 2011, 17:00 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-406:
I’ve only read the 1st paragraph will return to it now, but just this:
“Daniel seems to have more of X-factor when it comes to ball in hand(linebreaks,off loads).Stegman doesnt fall in this category as he is a true opensider”
Like I said at 377, Daniel holds off and gets into position to run in space. Stegmann had slightly less than half the carries, gets his balls in a lot of traffic, but he had a gailine % of 79 vs daniel’s 69.
He is a very capable carrier, only he is under instruction to play a role of a real opensider at the Bulls, and last time I checked, that’s what the Boks wanted since they have plenty of top class ball carriers in other positions…
19 Jul 2011, 17:04 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-402:
Ashley Johnson also more effective at collision points,largely cleaning,support tackler and around the fringes he is more destructive on defense. The teckle efficiency or lack there of by AJ was also attributed to his form in the first 8 rounds of S15 where he wasnt up to scratch.After moving him to 7 and Raubenheimer to 8 and interchanging them according to situation his efficiency improved greatly in that regard.It a bit like the situation with Alberts who was smoking hot in everything till round 9 game vs Bulls where he was poor from then on till end of competition but you dont hear anyone lambasting Alberts and questioning his pedigree.
Would like to see stats from midpoint round 8 till end of S15 on both Johnson and Alberts.
19 Jul 2011, 17:06 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-406:
….and now for the rest:
“Now in slowing the ball down-does Stegmann really effect this very well? Because I have watched Bulls games where he hasnt listen to ref repeatedly.He tends to do it in the red zone/inside own half at well especially around 10 and 22m area.Now i could be mistaken by i see this more from him than the other flankers,it may indeed be due to his higher workrate but he does seem NOT to pick his moments well enough at times.”
Firstly, you have avoid the issue of Steggies vs Daniel in the numbers so far,
Secondly Juan Smith praised Stegmann’s ability to slow ball down last year in the Bok tests.
Lastly, the fact remains the penalty rate per b/d is still lower than that of Louw etc. He is not a penalty liabilty and there is nothing to worry about. He can play differently under unstruction and is a very capable carrier.
What about all the things that Steggies has illegally gotten away with for the last few years? That is great rugby, you can’t deny it, and that is what these guys get paid to get away with.
19 Jul 2011, 17:09 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-411:
….just what?
Emphasis on the “KID” in your nickname, isn’t that right Xhosakid?
19 Jul 2011, 17:13 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-414:
fair enough but that is why they cant truly be compared seeing the roles they are employed in.It like comparing Stegmann and Potgieter who are in same team and perform 2 different roles.
Stegmann’s effectiveness as a carrier is irrelevant due to the fact as you have acknowledged as much that he is employed mostly as a breakdown specialist which Keegan doesnt. Because if that is the case then we can also argue that Keegan isnt employed in true openside role but if given the role looking at his current breakdown ratio efficiency he “could be more effective” if he was employed that way.That means he would be at more rucks and workrate would be comparible to that of Stegmann who has double the rucks attended yet less than HALF the ball recieved as carrier(like Daniel who has more carries). Thn we would be operating in hypotheticals which is useless.
19 Jul 2011, 17:15 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-416: if Stegmann is the great player you believe he is, this should become all apparent in the next few weeks… and if this is the case, i’m sure people here will acknowledge this. i don’t think you’ll convince anyone with stats…
19 Jul 2011, 17:16 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-412:
You thought Daniel played less minutes than Steggies?
Well, I suppose you can’t be blamed, that would be the first guess when you see how much less work Daniel did than Steggies. Daniel played 1140 minutes, Steggies 1070 minutes, apparently.
So what do want to say about it? Some more tired “Vanishing” chirps?
19 Jul 2011, 17:18 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-419:
I agree with you, defintely.
Except with this statement: “and if this is the case, i’m sure people here will acknowledge this.”
Most won’t acknowledge this, they don’t care, they don’t have a reason for the things they’ve been saying all along, so why would they reverse themselves?
Here and there a guy will. The hatred or jealousy or whatever motivates these bloggers won’t go away.
19 Jul 2011, 17:20 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-416:
“Lastly, the fact remains the penalty rate per b/d is still lower than that of Louw etc. He is not a penalty liabilty and there is nothing to worry about. He can play differently under unstruction and is a very capable carrier.”
the above statement is still looking at hypotheticals..(employed by instructions etc) which is subjective thus baseless.Useless.
I did not see anything that involved Smith and praising of Stegmann so thats news to me.
What has he gotten away with?
19 Jul 2011, 17:24 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-422:
What has he gotten away with above the average loosie in competition? What are Stegmann’s stats compared to Wickus van Heerden in 2007 who operated within bulls strategy and seemed to get more recognition that Stegmann??? Honestly because now you are making it as if its a personal vendetta vs Stegmann and thats a stretch towards ludicrous
19 Jul 2011, 17:26 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-419: habana had the best stats of all the saffa wingers in the s15 and we all know what the majority of the bloggers think of him.birdie man just never will get it that stats alone is not enough for the keo crowd.deon ‘junk status’stegmann will need to improve immensely to change current thinking of him.
19 Jul 2011, 17:27 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-419:
no he wont acknowledge that point because he will say that Stegmann is to an extent an a handicap as he is playing with a “B team” and its not fair regarding his abilities. He alluded to such earlier in the week.
19 Jul 2011, 17:27 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-418:
No.
The comparison is NOT invalid since they are the closest in their roles in their respective unions and they are being compared here by others in vying for one job/role in one team, the Boks.
You cannot say in this instance that “Oh, ok, the oppsite is true, Keegan hit less than half the rucks of Steggies, because he was under instruction and he may be capable of matching Steggies work rate here if they wanted him to”….
The point is he didn’t. So now we will never know for this seaosn will we. Last year it was exactly the same. So now what?
Nice to say that he can hanlde it, what he hasn’t demonstrated it whether by his own “volition”, or instruction. He just hasn’t.
Stegmann’s carrynig efficiency is not irrelevant. Why do you say this? Because he is semi-confined to ruck duty? Nonsense. Watch the Bulls vs Crusaders 2009 semi-fianl: the Bulls were trailing by 20 points and they won that game. The two comeback tries were both sparks by strong Stegmann runs, and don’t tell me it isn’t so, because the game is available for everyone to see.
At close quarters, the ease with which Steggies has show that he can bash over the advantage line is a major luxury to the team. It is not irrelevant.
19 Jul 2011, 17:28 pm
rewarding form…. tell that to Jano Vermaak and Sarel Pretorius
19 Jul 2011, 17:31 pm
thank heavens we have Stegmann!
19 Jul 2011, 17:31 pm
OMG this is one k@K team!
19 Jul 2011, 17:32 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-422:
OK firstly refer to post 426, then
1) It’s not a baseless hypothetical. Saying a player that has FAR FEWER b/d stats like Daniel can be adapted to play like Stegmann is NOT the same as saying Stegmann can run the ball more with a higher g/l % AND speed.
This is not the same at all. Why can’t you see this?
2) Re Smith’s praise of Stegmann, well sorry you missed the interviews:
http://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/rugby/article761495.ece/Stegmanns-big-fast-forward
19 Jul 2011, 17:33 pm
@bangkok-bok(bangkok-bok)-429:
…Remember to cut along the artery NOT across…
19 Jul 2011, 17:33 pm
where are the rugby kenners around?
i want to know 1 thing..
can Jacque Fourie play 12…?
19 Jul 2011, 17:38 pm
i can already see agile blaming the rest of the pack for steggies disappearance act come this saturday.
19 Jul 2011, 17:38 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-402: DUDE, WHAT are u saying!
AJ was the best loosie in last 7 games of S15!
dont just talk trash bra. He, Messam and Fritz Lee propelled me to the top of the standings in our fantasy league so dont talk blasphemy hear mate
19 Jul 2011, 17:39 pm
@bangkok-bok(bangkok-bok)-429: This is a cool team
19 Jul 2011, 17:39 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-431: Is it just me or are you also feeling the pain of this team? FORM??? He picked on FORM??? It is clear why he chose these plonkers. Oh plz oz THUMP this joke of a team,- it cuts me to say that but oh i want them to get snot-clapped!
19 Jul 2011, 17:41 pm
@shooter(shooter)-435: Do you REALLY think this is a good team? ***** bells!
19 Jul 2011, 17:41 pm
@topaz(topaz)-433:
Well the pack isn’t ideal and this is against the Wallabies and All Blacks’ A-teams, and this is also away at the Oval where we always get poor results, and this is the first couple of tests where team practice time is less than at the end…..
But now that Stegmann has fully recovered from a major injury and he’s fit, it won’t be neccesay to make those comments.
Back home, Brussow will get to play among more A-team players, this is a nice advantage to judge form.
19 Jul 2011, 17:44 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-415: its as if the comments here are coming from all the ppl that would’ve finished way below me in fantasy
what good is their opinion if they couldnt see that there were certain players that 2nd half of S15 they dominated. not enough though to then end up top of the list ALA liam Messam!
AJ was best performing loosie in 2nd half os S15 and outplayed crusaders loosies, bulls loosies TWICE and sharks loosies
19 Jul 2011, 17:44 pm
@bangkok-bok(bangkok-bok)-436:
Some selections are not so great, but we are missing 23 players. Actually 24 if you count Brussow is also still missing.
Yes, the odds are against us, but we can still win. There may be positive things to take from these matches.
19 Jul 2011, 17:47 pm
@bangkok-bok(bangkok-bok)-437: this is the best team available considering those that have been left at home
personally i would have had Super Sarel on bench
dropped Meisiekind and dropped Adi Jacobs
dunno wtf Jacobs is doing there
19 Jul 2011, 17:48 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-426:
The same argument can be used with Keegan who has taken more ball and carried more than double Stegmann with still a high effeicency ratio of 69%.
No you cant use specific roles to compare when it suits your agenda which you are doing with Keegan Daniel.I am discussing opensiders with you and did not compare Daniels and disputed your comparisons due to differing roles. The Sharks play effectively with no real openside and no one is employed in that manner through their own “volition” or not. The turnover mechanism used by team is mostly based on physicality at collision points and counterrucking(which was prevailent last yr and with day light rule has led to increase in turnover achieve in this manner than the past trend when turnover were more on opensider) added with Bismark du Plessis ability on the ground. If you watch Keegan he isnt in the least a quintessential example of a opensider.So again i dispute that comparison.And you were the one disputing Daniel’s supposed superior ball carrying prowess sue to the fact that you said he wasnt confined to ruck duty-he stand off more looking for ball to carry as he is employed that way in Sharks strategy.Now when i do the same with the ruck attendance stat and turnover in relation to Daniels to Stegmann who dont want to acknowledge it.
Compare linebreaks,broken tackles,large runs of substantial meters in run game between the 2 just like you would compare ruck attendance and accuracy/penalties sat breakdown.facets apply to to category.
Burrowing over advantage line from fringes is very different from carrying from midfield to set up or running as option 1 off scrumhalf towards fist pillar to breach advantage line.Very different.
19 Jul 2011, 17:48 pm
@shooter(shooter)-427: according to the stats, pretorius missed the most tackles in super rugby.now, we can’t have an open door policy for the boks opponents.
19 Jul 2011, 17:51 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-440: Meisiekind? Muller? Basson to leak tries. Dinosaurus Danie? Plod? Morne Steyn with the B team- yeah burn him out some more. No chaps, this is one sorry-arse team of plonkers led by the biggest plonker of them all!
19 Jul 2011, 17:51 pm
what is nice. is that after WC we will have plenty of new players having had exposure to international rugby. maybe, we will be a new force in the non WC years coming after.
i just have a feeling, and my feeling is real.
Victor and FdP and and Bakkies and the other 18 guys are all plotting our way, somewhere next to a swimming pool, to a WC win in 2011.
19 Jul 2011, 17:52 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-440: i think it will be tougher than we think
i dont think the problem’s will be from Oz forwards as much as from the backline.
ppl dont realise just how much Genia and Cooper kick to keep pressure on the opposition … and its NOT aimless up and unders but alot of variation.
that way if the ball does come back to them they attack from strength
its almost text book rugby but with more Oz razzle dazzle
I mean…Coopah, Ioane, O’Conner, KURTLEY Beale…. TOO Sick!
19 Jul 2011, 17:53 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-438: we will just have to agree to disagree on this one,but i can promise you one thing that on saturday i will support steggies and the boks no matter what.with that i conclude my comments on steggies.
19 Jul 2011, 17:55 pm
@charo(charo)-393: http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts BWahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
19 Jul 2011, 17:56 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-442: 100% correct
19 Jul 2011, 18:02 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-430</a
1.) why is it not the same?Keegan has FAR FEWER rucks attended and more ball carried-there is a correlation between the 2 which affects the numbers and accuracy ratios etc (whats daniel's turnover stats and penalty ratio in the rucks attended?) and if he was employed in that role exclusively why wouldnt that improve his chances? And that includes slowing the ball down more effectively.Why is it not the same as ball carrying stat regarding Stegmann? Why cant you see that?
Fair enough on Smith story-will check it out.Not an indictment on me as I dont read ever anecdote around. And still have seen any publications acknowledging Stegmann as primary threat to strategy from oposition coaches though
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