Let’s be honest in SA rugby
25 Jul 2011
MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day column, says the Springboks’ poor showing in Sydney came as no surprise.
Often, very little makes sense about South African rugby, or indeed the South African rugby supporter.
There never seems to be any doubt among South African rugby supporters that the Springboks can beat the All Blacks in Auckland at this year’s World Cup. But there is concern the Boks may not be able to negotiate Samoa at the same tournament … a view based on Samoa’s win against a Wallabies team missing seven first-choice players.
Often nothing makes sense and the past week was no exception, with the Boks in Sydney insulted at being called a B team, despite 21 first-choice players having being assembled in Rustenburg for a two-week training camp.
And then there was a belief among so many South African rugby supporters that the bag of mixed sorts gifted a Bok jersey in Sydney would deliver more than collective mediocrity.
Even worse was the surprise among South African fans when Australia embarrassed these South African rugby players dressed as Boks.
The Springboks were always going to take a beating because in the Tri Nations not one of the three teams has enough depth to play a B team against the other’s A team — and win away from home.
It was also how SA lost that reaffirmed the view that Peter de Villiers as national coach offers nothing.
De Villiers, whether the Boks win or lose the World Cup, cannot go sooner. Worse than him having nothing technical to offer is that in four years he has learned nothing.
Senior players defend De Villiers because they say he is a great manager of players. They do this because he allows the ‘old boys’ to do whatever they want and to run the show.
De Villiers, as a rugby coach, is as embarrassing as the effort of the players in Sydney. Had it not been for the charitable substitutions of Australian coach Robbie Deans on the hour, the score-line would have been a truer reflection of an early Aussie attacking master class and a limp Bok response.
De Villiers has not had the capacity to evolve as an international coach in four years and the team that started in Sydney was never going to play more than one match as a unit.
Somehow too many remain surprised. How ignorant! How depressing!
The Boks, with the best playing at their best, can win anything. That is why there is hope for the World Cup, but there also has to be honesty about last Saturday and the coming weekend’s defeat.
Bok captain John Smit said the only B describing his team was that they were Boks. I’d add “bull” to that as well.
Honesty served the 2007 World Cup campaign. A repeat dose now would not be out of place.
De Villiers, among the coaches, stands alone in the blame because he has never empowered his two assistants, Dick Muir and Gary Gold, and for the past two years has tried to fire them. They have no input in team selections and team strategy. They are simply there for a pay cheque.
De Villiers has relied on 20 very gifted players to mask his incompetence these past four years, and mostly the players have delivered through instinct and natural ability.
Most of those players were not in Sydney, which also explains the result. The team that played against Australia had no respect for the basics of the game, had no desire to make a tackle, had no clue on attack and looked lost from the opening whistle — which would be an accurate description of De Villiers’s tenure as coach.
South African rugby fans who deal in reality and not illusions should focus more on what is going on in Rustenburg, where a real coach (Rassie Erasmus) is working with some real Bok players … ones who aren’t injured and are very capable of winning a one-off Test against anyone.
Those up north (in SA ) can also no longer defend Morne Steyn’s right to the No 10 jersey at the World Cup. Butch James offers more in the short term and Pat Lambie is the long-term solution.
Life isn’t going to be as comfortable for Bok rugby when Victor Matfield and his imposing team-mates call time on their international careers.
The 2007 World Cup winners are among the best players ever produced. With most of them gone in 2012, Bok rugby is again going to need a coach the equal of those departing players.
Forget the Sydney result. It means nothing in the context of the World Cup.
There is no need for panic, but there will always be a need in our rugby for honesty.
596 Comments
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25 Jul 2011, 22:36 pm
@cab(cab)-546: White is a low blow lowlife operator.. one his close buddies committed suicide because he was ‘discarded’ and shunted aside after Whites early acceptance by Saru.
@ET.(ET.)-548: you are the absolute archaic epitome of a slow thinker… you dunno even what a thought actually IS you ignoramus dumbfck half educated half arsed half witted imbecile self infatuated Yankee doodle dandy arselicking deluded dunce.
25 Jul 2011, 22:45 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-551:
dont think he’s a saint and dunno about the personal conjecture, but think he’s v knowledgeble on SA rugby and i was happy he was coaching the boks, he provided many good things for SA rugby imo at a time they drastically needed some stability and common sense.
25 Jul 2011, 22:49 pm
@cab(cab)-552: White and ET are same kind lowlife ingrate idiots… people who blow own trumpets loudest are most likely to get burst eardrums first.
25 Jul 2011, 22:54 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-553:
lol, but White won us a RWC which is of primary importance, it dont really matter what ET does. if you can walk the talk, go for it i say.
25 Jul 2011, 22:59 pm
PdV’s main failing is his lack of self realizable conviction.. He thought, whether rightly or wrongly, that without Smit and Matfield as his two pillars of strength propping him up he won’t cut it on the big stage and in the big league..
Perhaps he knew his own limitations better than most, after all similarly White only realized this at the very last ditch eleventh hour when it became painfully obvious to him that without the brains and more importantly the crutch of a committed and willing rugby strategist to lean on in Eddy Jones he was lost in a sea of his own limited making.
Jones pulled that team together which had no direction whatsoever through the 3N of 06 and 07 and gave it both the belief and the conviction that they had the wherewithal to take on the world. Prior to Jones contribution they were almost as woeful as we find the Bok team is now at similar junction in proceedings.
25 Jul 2011, 22:59 pm
The ” cart-a r s e s” are at it again.
A totally predictable hiding at a simple game albeit one involving the ‘nation’ and its rugby players now compared to a tragedy like some bomb blast a few days ago?
Now a cleansing or purging is called forth?
Priorities gone wild.
25 Jul 2011, 23:03 pm
And the WC did what for the people of Boiphatong or even “site 5″?
25 Jul 2011, 23:04 pm
i never believed the A team were woeful in 2007, nor do i believe the current A team are woeful. The Key was not Eddie Jones, nor will it be Rassie Erasmus, the key to the whole thing is very simply making sure our best players are all fit, rested and selected.
25 Jul 2011, 23:06 pm
@ET.(ET.)-557:
who cares?
hell u could even discover the cure to your dementia, its irrelevant.
25 Jul 2011, 23:09 pm
@cab(cab)-554: Well White talked a whole lotta sh’t just like ET does – but then he did the only thing that was left open for him to do… he got somebody more qualified and more astute than he was to put the cherry on the icing of his half baked cake… and viola, the Frenchies, Argies and Poms did the rest… and he cake walked his way into a no contest easy peasy non eventful WC crowning glory.
So what can ET actually ‘do’ ? talk sh’t out his half arsed Yankee doodle dandy feathered backside – that’s about as much as he’s good for, so in clarity of relative conditioned comparison between the schmuck ET and the other schmuck White I reckon the self infatuated schmuck White still has that tiny modicum of humility to his credit that the idiot useless self deluded self infatuated ignoramus half arsed dunce ET is still yet to find.
25 Jul 2011, 23:13 pm
1. Beast 2. Bismarck 3. CJ 4. Bakkies 5. Matfield 6. Brussow 7. Juan 8. Alberts
9. FdP 10. Morne 11. Habana 12. JdV/Frans 13. JF 14. JP 15. Frans/Aplon
16. Gurthro 17. Smit 18. Jannie 19. Danie 20. Burger 21. RP 22. Hougaard
That side can beat anyone anywhere.
25 Jul 2011, 23:14 pm
The true colours of the ‘liberals’ now being manifested with clarity?
Plus some delightful middle-leg sucking, in fact-less desperation?
Is it growing and is it of benefit?
25 Jul 2011, 23:16 pm
Not 1/100th as well as that that ran out your shorts when the cold blade was felt.
25 Jul 2011, 23:17 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-555:
Maybe it’s time for PdV to start Chilibooi against the ABs?!
Will settle few issues, so far he has come on more or less at garbage times, caused few embarrassments like on Saturday when a tackle landed him on his back with a thump, then collected plenty praises, none really quantified
Add Johnson and Elton Jantjies and we shall see
Fair enough?
25 Jul 2011, 23:19 pm
the general feeling on here is one of disbelieve. like a huuuuge hangover that i have from saturday nite, like my ears can still not comprehend, trying to equalize. …almost like, a test to forget.
nice posts cab.
et. man, you are actually slightly.
skop. drop. and skiet. what did jw really do, to make you so mad at him. o, i think i remember. it’s what he didn’t do.
so is cheecky the next bok coach?
25 Jul 2011, 23:21 pm
I am disappointed with Nama’s absent!
Sound like he is still waiting for the Party Line telex but the teleprinter at the HQ is broken?
25 Jul 2011, 23:23 pm
@shooter(shooter)-565: and i’m not really bothered. i mean wtf. in 100 years of racing. did ferrari win every season?
25 Jul 2011, 23:25 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-566: hondo, jy moet eintlik jou naam verander na net ‘hond’ toe. dit pas jou baie beter. jy is ‘n moerse pateet. besef jy dit?
25 Jul 2011, 23:27 pm
@shooter(shooter)-565:
so what did u think of saturday’s debacle?
25 Jul 2011, 23:29 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-566: moenie dink die Here het nie dalk ‘n ontmoeting met jou nie.
25 Jul 2011, 23:30 pm
@shooter(shooter)-570: en pruim daai ene mooi.
25 Jul 2011, 23:31 pm
@cab(cab)-552: what did keo’s twitter say the day jake was announced brumbies coach-elect?
something like “jake might a prick & a liar but he is a good coach”
now if keohane regards him as a doos then u know something is cooking, as you know keo was saved by jake from being hit by a car in paris before the final, now he says the dude is a first class prick
25 Jul 2011, 23:31 pm
@shooter(shooter)-567:
It took 20 years between Judi Schechter and Michael Schumacher, wasn’t it?
25 Jul 2011, 23:32 pm
there was no cold blade felt I grabbed the stupid little chicken arse skollies blade with my bare hand and the little coward realized there was no easy cell phone haul for him that day… and then they all 3 turned and ran when the game was up.
the only outright two faced La-di-da fascist here is this Yankee doodle dandy arselicking coconut scum who professes to be dyed in the red flag of Mao’s commie colors while sucking profusely up Uncle Sam’s lily white imperialists capitalist bum.
@Hondo(Hondo)-564: Not half as embarrassing as a rampaging John Smit into no mans land.. getting the ball sprawled out his feeble frolicking hand and 30 secs later the Aussie prop is over in the far corner. Or the flabby belly flop waltz he so lavishly performed in front of 100000 grand standing ovation fans at Soweto to crown his legendary status of feeble self infatuated worth when his 100th game festivities turned into an abysmal nightmare.
Yeah play Smitty again… Thorn and Nonu and the rest of the AB faithful will be absolutely licking their lips in the anticipation of the next flabby pakeha juice stew gonna be heaped up on their beckoning plate.
25 Jul 2011, 23:34 pm
@cab(cab)-569: hi Cab. i read most of the two threads here.
i didn’t watch the game as i was on the golf course for a bachelors.
from what i saw. it was like a boxing match where the one heavyweight got in a few shots to the jaw in round one and 2. a bit like Flo (bless the next champ) Simba and Fransie Botha
*I lost my concentration just now due to having to give biblical advice.
25 Jul 2011, 23:37 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-572:
ja who knows what goes on with these okes, its damn amusing actually.
you know the build-up to this thing is almost 100% identical to 4 years ago, uitgeknip, its actually uncanny. next thing pdv will save keo from a bus in auckland and they all walk down the aisle arm in arm happily everafter…
25 Jul 2011, 23:41 pm
@cab(cab)-569:
problem 1 – locks.
problem 2 – game breaker or two in the back line. it could not be aplon in a desperate cause
problem 3 – are the people there really in the right mindset. the talk it. but i don’t know
problem 4 – inexperience in general
problem overall – aussie backline
25 Jul 2011, 23:41 pm
Here’s the truth regarding Morne and Lambie. Lambie failed in his fifth consecutive test. Another loser with no future as an adequate player:
Lambie
56:00 – Restart. Aus kick into touch. Lineout on half way.
57:00 – Lambie to Deysel. Stopped dead
Boks rumble into Aus 22, Lambie nt involved with it
57:40 – Lambie receives ball in Aus 22. Crabs to the right dummies, gets taken to ground
58:02 – Lambie penalty out for lineout in Aus 22
Boks maul it from lineout, Chiliboy scores a try. Lambie not involved
62:28 – Lambie sits deep, passes to Olivier who is, again, very deep, Boks curalled and stopped losing ground in the process.
62:36 – Lambie gets in on the short side, sets up Mvovo for a tackle.
65:00 – Lambie kicks penalty into touch for lineout
66:17 – Lambie sitting very deep again, passes to Adi who is literally right next to him! Aussies swarm
all over Adi, but at least he took it to the line!
66:33 – Attempted kick into touch from ruck outside Bok 22. Beale collects.
67:55 – Lambie collects and chips, chip charged down. A real let-off as Aus knock-on with numbers
69:19 – Bok scrum. Skip-pass by Lambie to Adi deep. Aus in no real danger
70:00 – Bok scrum. Lambie very deep, another skip-pass to Adi. Knock on. Aus under no pressure
71:43 – Big burst by Aplon, gives it to Lambie who is tackled. Loses ball in contact. Turnover Aus
72:18 – Lambie inside pass to Adi. Boks don’t even gain an inch here
75:25 – Bok try. Lambie not present in any phase of play
77:03 – Lambie deep again, in Bok 22, passes to de Jongh. Aus just cural Boks into touchline
77:25 – Lambie takes it to the line, gets well wrapped up and turned over. Aus nearly through for try
78:50 – Bok scrum, Bok 22. Lambie receives it on 3rd phase. takes it to the line, thumped to the deck
nearly turned over
79:59 – Lambie to Roussouw, Roussouw well behind the gainline
————————————————————————————–
Morne Steyn
00:00 – Kick-off
01:47 – Bok scrum, garryowen with Olivier and de Jongh in pursuit
04:22 – Bok scrum, Morne takes it flat, passes to Olivier
04:44 – Morne takes it flat on the blindside, puts Mvovo through
05:15 – Morne aligns wide and flat, passes to de Jongh coming in hard and fast (got stripped)
09:27 – Restart – Puts us deep into Aus territory
09:51 – Morne tracks back, but unable to stop a certain try
12:00 – Restart – Puts us deep into Aus territory
14:07 – Bok scrum, Morne takes it flat, gives it Olivier
17:21 – Bok scrum, Morne puts it on the 10m line
18:50 – Bok penalty, Morne puts it in Australia’s half. Bok lineout
19:52 – Slightly deeper, gives it it Olivier
20:09 – Morne engages defernders, inside pass to Roussouw
24:04 – Morne takes the contact and offloads to Olivier, who gets dumped
27:04 – Morne takes it in our 22, puts it into touch inside Aus 10 line
27:45 – Bok lineout, Morne takes it flat and wide, pops it to Olivier
30:00 – Morne slots a penalty
30:03 – Morne takes it in our 22, puts it down the middle
31:51 – Morne chips it into the corner
32:51 – Blindside, Morne beats Beale, steps Elsom, draws loosehead and puts Pienaar clean through
33:00 – Morne takes it flat from ruck, passes to Johnson
36:24 – Restart
36:52 – Bok lineout, Morne takes it slightly deeper, holds and pops it to Johnson
37:36 – Morne takes it wide and deep, skip pass to de Jongh
37:55 – Takes it, runs forward, gives it to Kankowski who puts Basson through
39:29 – Morne kicks penalty into touch. Bok lineout
40:25 – Takes it mid depth, cross field kick to Mvovo
40:45 – Slots penalty for 3 points
44:45 – Restart
48:01 – Restart
48:30 – Morne regathers fumble in 22 under pressure, stands ground sets up ruck with support
51:55 – Restart
53:12 – Takes it mid-depth, cut-pass to de Jongh
53:39 – Pops it to Greyling
All those Morne critics are as thick as the *** bones that encase their brain. That’s you Keo!
25 Jul 2011, 23:42 pm
@shooter(shooter)-575:
oh right, no wonder u still got the hangover, are u saying SA was frans the white rhino botha? cos hell they were out for the count about 20 seconds into the 1st when smit made a monumentally epic charge, only to cough it up off his boeppens in midfield on a platter – and from then on the nightmare unfolded.
25 Jul 2011, 23:44 pm
@shooter(shooter)-577:
think u got it in one. hopefully better against ABs, but suppose must curb expectations.
25 Jul 2011, 23:44 pm
that guy old school also made a few good points, that we all know, but he articulated it quite well mostly. we should be playing rugby. emphasis on playing. not labouring it so much.
25 Jul 2011, 23:45 pm
@shooter(shooter)-565: klink vir my jy hou van daai blaffende bolletjie hondtjie die einaardige fake snake
ek het gn tyd vir groot bek imposter frauds – soos die fakes soos jake – en ne soos die skommel wat in die VSA hul heldheid kom blaas oor die internet asof hulle die ware Jacobs van mensregheid is, al sluk hulle die skuim uit die gatte van hul witpens imperialistiese baase
25 Jul 2011, 23:49 pm
@cab(cab)-579: ja-no, and it was my brother’s.
the buffalo soldier hit Flo simba with a shot somewhere in the 6th and Flo dropped two rounds later only. even volbrecht was asking him before the round (still two rounds later)…’you ok boy?’ gotta love boxing. Flo Simba is the real deal.
But the score was more like buffalo soldier / Tyson
25 Jul 2011, 23:55 pm
@shooter(shooter)-575: we walked into a couple sucker punches in the first round at 10 minutes into the game.. a quick one-two by Cooper and then Genia in the very next breath and the bout was all over.
Smit should have been far more wide awake to the pitfalls of trying to be a f’ng hero in round one of the 15 round match up. Should have measured the collective blows and contained the onslaught through a series of forward thrust phases before everybody trying to be a solo hero with zero backup in support.
It was all over at the 12 minute mark at 12 – 3 down and it quickly escalated to 32 – 6 or something like that. But the lesson of the exercise is not to kick possession away especially against the most talented back line in world rugby and not to barge up into defenses without adequate support and get turned over. Both lessons that PdV and Smit seem incapable of learning in all of the past 20 months of dismal one dimensional failure.
25 Jul 2011, 23:56 pm
LMAO, just as well the foreigners cant understand afr, cos 582 would make a sailour nauseas.
@shooter(shooter)-583:
lol, did u watch david hayes’ sore footsie excuse?
25 Jul 2011, 23:56 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-582: i love it when you talk foreign, haha.
well, i liked him more than straueli. well, only coenie de villiers is worse than straueli.
furthermore. he tossed around some. i just want a coach that can 70% consistently.
you say stats can distort. and it’s true. but at least we thought we had a ok team in with a chance most of the time.
apart from JvdWesthuizen on 10 what should never have happened. at least we were happy when we won. and eddy or no eddie, I give jake some credit for that. i’ve read his book and he did create systems. who knows what could have happened if he was kept for another 4 years.
i don’t really worry about the palace talk.
26 Jul 2011, 00:05 am
Cab
love the way you add your proviso about Beast & Brussow being ‘young players’ in the same breath as mentioning O.Franks’enstein who actually was younger and himself a debutant. Beast & Brussow were not debutante vs AB that series having been involved vs BIL. The AB pack also incl a rookie lock, I.Ross, which is a bit more significance to a scrums performance than any
open side flanker will ever be. You might regard this as ‘selective amnesia’.
Beast has been found out since his illegal boring-in techniques have been repeatedly penalised. Reverse turbo ever since.
26 Jul 2011, 00:06 am
ok unusual suspects. nite.
26 Jul 2011, 00:09 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-587: get ready to die saturday *****.
26 Jul 2011, 00:09 am
what?! illegal boring-in, never, AVE MARIA, DOMINO CHRISTUS.
26 Jul 2011, 00:11 am
************************************************************ 8)
>@588 Lol
26 Jul 2011, 01:05 am
435.Bludeks:
Whoever edited 435 must be the same person as banned “Black Beauty”. Furthermore they dont know the English language.
26 Jul 2011, 01:46 am
Apparently PDV said he “would be making some changes” for the next game. Really interested to see what those are.
26 Jul 2011, 01:51 am
Shooter
great to see that Safa spirit return. Cab appears to rolled over and died already, much like his preferred BS code in Latin.
26 Jul 2011, 12:40 pm
@flanka(flanka)-2: Wow, you have a short memory boet. In the last 4 years I believe the Bulls have won the Super 14 twice, one where the final was an all SA affair.
I agree fully with Keo. PDV has been an example of what is wrong with SA rugby. The greatest group of spirngboks we have ever seen in a long time has been wasted on this ‘clown’.
After the world cup we will be rebuilding and we need a builder with a plan, not the type of amateur style of coaching that is PDV. He fired Os for God knows what reason, he wants to fire Muir and Gold because of his ever growing state of paranoia, the man is clueless and was selected based on race and personal agendas from Hoskins, who could have selected a WC winning assistant coach in Alistair Coetzee instead of this ‘clown’ who has brought shame and embarrassment to SA rugby.
27 Jul 2011, 02:12 am
So lets have a bit of honesty on this site. Keo has spread the word that the ‘injured’ boks are in a two week training camp. Where does that leave us on moral and ethical grounds. While the AB’s and Wallys are generally fronting their main groups weekly for these tests the Boks are at home hiding behind a medical smoke screen. Come WC time and they defend their title- is it right or is it wrong?
My head says yeah its OK, do whatever your team needs to accomplish their goals…..my heart says this is not in the true spirit of what the Boks have represented along with their Tri Nations rivals over the years, I feel it has the shade of cheating (somehow) attached to it.
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