623 Comments

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• 1.seabiscuit:
  17 Aug 2011, 06:04 am

  Agreed!!!!!….. Dont mess around this dragon SA rugby!!!!

• 2.OCO:
  17 Aug 2011, 06:13 am

  Well said Keo.
  5:2 split on the bench at the RWC with Lambie and Houghard as replacement backs.
  We won’t win the RWC so we should use the matches to give experience to at least some of the future Boks.

• 3.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 06:23 am

  Keep him at 15. Clearly his best position where he can step in as an optional first-receiver, rather then being relied upon there. Also safe under the high ball, can kick, and runs well from the back – we don’t have many good all-round fullbacks in SA.

  A back-up 10 & 15 at this World Cup, but his future is at the back competing with Frans Steyn for the Springbok 15 jersey.

• 4.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 06:26 am

  @OCO(OCO)-2:

  Not the time to give up is it?

  Can’t see the positives in throwing a World Cup in order to give future players just a few extra games?

  Springboks can still do it. I think they’ll surprise us.

• 5.RL:
  17 Aug 2011, 06:53 am

  I am afraid that Lambie will just have to accept that he will not see much game time at 10 or at 15. Plums plan is to play him at 12 next season, he has already signed up Viljoen to replace the average Ludik, the frog owns Lambie at 10, which leaves Plum with the opportunity to fix the Bosman mistake.

  This will leave Elton in pole position to claim the Bok 10 jersey, after finishing his second super campaign.

• 6.TheTackler:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:13 am

  Compare Lambie with James O’Connor who — at the same age — is already a seasoned test veteran with dozens of proper caps — not 10 minute cameos at the dying end of a test.

• 7.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:20 am

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-6:

  To be fair, very different sort of players.

  Also Australia don’t have near the depth that we have so have to make the best of the players they’ve got.

  O’Connor is a freak and has huge confidence. Not so sure Lambie would’ve coped making his Super rugby debut at the age of 17 for example?

• 8.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:22 am

  @RL(RL)-5:

  Let’s hope that’s not the case. Bosman has been a big failure but not sure Lambie has the physical attributes to be playing at 12. While we all complain about Jean de Villiers and Wynand Olivier being battering rams – at the very least you need a 12 who can do just that, not always, but at least have that ability.

  Worst thing the Sharks ever did was cast aside Andries Strauss. Very very underrated.

• 9.Staal:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:29 am

  Good morning all.

  Let’s hope for the best – cause he’s been shifted around like music chairs…

• 10.BULLET:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:30 am

  I suggest that once he helps us win the RWC, we change him from position to position for a few years, then let him leave the country to go play 2nd division rugby somewhere, get fat, lazy and come back with a poor attitude. I mean surely that’s how you best manage talent?

• 11.stew:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:35 am

  @BULLET(BULLET)-10: Its the Sharks influence and IMO Muir – he nearly ruined the careers of Steyn and Pienaar with his constant moving around – this utility idea must go

• 12.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:35 am

  If we’re going to blame anyone, it should be John Plumtree. Moves him around far too much.

  But Lambie also needs to put his foot down. These guys need to get over the ‘what’s best for the team’.

  If a player is looked after, then the team will benefit. At the moment Lambie isn’t being looked after.

• 13.bryce_in_oz:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:36 am

  The entire ‘brains-trust’ starting with SARU and their head-coaching team need to be educated in how to both ‘invest-in’ and ‘manage’ youngsters coming through the ranks without putting unneeded pressure on them by throwing into the deep -end…

  In Peter De Villiers tenure there have been over 50 youngsters (yes over 50) ‘blooded’ in some form and exposed to international rugby whether that be caps for the Boks, Bok ‘B’ side, Emerging Boks, mid-week teams or at the very least at Bok training camps…

  How has this translated… well it simply hasn’t when one looks at the farce that was the ‘B’ team recently…

  In four years none of the above exposure has been managed correctly, done under the Bok ‘master-plan’ and with everyone on the same page… whether they make the step-up or not…

  Dumb c@nts all round in RSA rugby!

• 14.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:38 am

  @stew(stew)-11:

  He pretty much drove them out of South Africa. Pienaar left because he knew he’d get a chance to stay at scrumhalf if he moved to Ulster. I mean they were playing Rory Kockott ahead of him at the Sharks!!! What a joke.

  Francois Steyn same thing. Only changes in the Sharks team every week was to do with where Frans would be playing.

• 15.Big Hit:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:39 am

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-6: O’Connor had a good number of flop performances too, it turns out the only safe position in which to play him is on the wing.

  Lambie gaining experience in different positions at a young age will be good for his development and understanding of the game. He has plenty of time to specialise.

• 16.BULLET:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:41 am

  I am anmopuncing my joke 15 based on the last 3 weeks conditioning and performances
  1- F Steyn (has the size)
  2- F Steyn (must have the softest butt in rugby currently)
  3- Smit (PDV currently demonstrating what a force smit is at 3)
  4- Bakkies for 17 mins, then replaced by Spies for his tight play
  5- Hargreaves for his physical ability to stamp his authority on a test.
  6- Russouw- who needs a fetcher when we have a player who carries and catches this well.
  7- Stegman- relying on the first the worst, second the best breakdown approach.
  8- undecided
  9- bissy as he does enjpy loitering at the back of the ruck, and showed his value by pop passing to fdp under pressure to force a charge down instead of taking it up and freeing up some backs in the ruck.
  10- matfield. We’ve seen more of him trying to play 10 than 5. Got to be the tallest 10 in world rugby.
  11- Jannie Du plessis (nothing against him, just employing our new attack and defense system)
  12- Russouw (was a great centre to matfield v the aussies)
  13- waynand olivier to complete the bulls 10,12,13 axis.
  14 – beast, another product of our new defence system shown on saturday.
  15- M steyn… Need I say more.

  I have played Russouw and F Steyn in 2 positions cause I felt that their contribution was so telling last saturday, they equalled 2 men!

• 17.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:45 am

  @BULLET(BULLET)-16:

  Swap Rossouw and Matfield. Then we’d have a 10 who plays flat, and can hold onto the ball with one hand like Quade Cooper.

• 18.BULLET:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:47 am

  Hendrik,
  In the boks, we coach our players to pass back 10m or so. This flat approach is outdated. When you’re only going to kick or take crashball, its best to do it 20m behind your forward pack, cause for them to turn and run backwards is very uplifting!

• 19.iceman:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:48 am

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-6:

  One should never compare this sort of thing in players as all players develop and mature at different rates, normally players you take longer to develop have longer careers because their bodies are given more chance to fully develop before and hence can handle the rigours of rugby better.

• 20.we have it on good authority that on september 11, a legend will rise...:
  17 Aug 2011, 07:49 am

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-6:
  to be fair though, a wing and a pivot when compared is really chalk and cheese.

• 21.we have it on good authority that on september 11, a legend will rise...:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:00 am

  anyway, whoever said they were not goin gto invest in lambie as a possible future fh. granted of course he’ll have to fight for his place.

• 22.Champs 95 07 and Beyond:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:04 am

  If we have to have a 5/2 split I guess Lambie and Hougaard can cover all the positions in the backline. After this WC Lambie should only be played at 10 and not moved. I believe the Lions have our future 15, just cant think of his name right now but showed pretty well in Super Rugby at the age of 20. If Frans Steyn manages to turn that fat into muscle the No 12 jersey is calling.

• 23.we have it on good authority that on september 11, a legend will rise...:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:10 am

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-17:
  on a serious note though, i think thats where daniel should play or perhaps better still at 12.

• 24.RL:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:11 am

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-6: O’Connor has something Lambie does not possess … pace.

• 25.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:12 am

  @Champs 95 07 and Beyond(Champs 95 07 and Beyond)-22:

  Jaco Taute? Not so sure. Good player but a Springbok?

  Frans Steyn is still a ‘youngster’. He is our future at 15. Him and Lambie Even with his extra weight he still wasn’t half bad on Saturday. Let’s see what he can do before we throw him aside.

• 26.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:14 am

  @we have it on good authority that on september 11, a legend will rise…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-23:

  How much better off we’d be if we could clone Heinrich Brussow. Only genuine openside in South Africa at the moment.

• 27.garth:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:16 am

  @BULLET(BULLET)-16: You should put PDV as your coach and JS as your captain, that’s the biggest joke of them all… just a pity it’s true.

• 28.Dwis:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:22 am

  To be fair to plum, lambie was his first choice FH all year but picked him at 15 for the bulls game to counter their kicking game. And it proved to be a stroke of genius. Against wp on friday he was picked at 12 for his defence and got a masterclass from fred. Fred is only here for the cc and lambie will play 10 all year again.

• 29.we have it on good authority that on september 11, a legend will rise...:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:22 am

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-26:
  i will admit he gave me hot flushes at times on saturday.

• 30.RL:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:23 am

  @BULLET(BULLET)-18: Elton is the best distributer around, he hits the gain line with pace, often resulting in line breaks. His passing and offloading to players is kiwi like.

  He is a specialist 10, coaches know not to stuff him around like some utility players out there.

• 31.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:24 am

  @Dwis(Dwis)-28:

  Ah wrong. Fred is here next year for Super rugby season as well. And there is talk of extending his stay.

• 32.Champs 95 07 and Beyond:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:24 am

  @ 25.hendrikp: Frans at 12 and captain of backline. his experience for the next 4 years is crucial. Bulls, Sharks, WP need to contract him and get him out of Europe. Future Possible Backline:
  9- Sarel ( going to gain valuable experience playing for Waratahs)
  10- Lambie (get Naas and Percy to coach kicking and tactical kicking)
  12- Frans
  13- DeJongh/ Sadie
  11- Mvovo
  14 – Basson
  15 – Taute

  I can only go on what I have seen in Super Rugby. Dont get to see much SA rugby. I truely hope there are youngsters coming through.

• 33.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:27 am

  @RL(RL)-30:

  We’re stuffed at 10 for the moment. Jantjies a talented player but his boot will never win us games. Also not much of a defender. Maybe Super 15 is his ceiling?

  I like the idea of Johan Goosen. But that’s still a few years off.

• 34.Sasuke:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:28 am

  Tough case. How long has Michalak signed for? 2-3 years? Frenchie will clog up the flyhalf channel for the most of those 2-3 years. I would like to see JPP maybe moved to fullback, he will be great there. Lambie can fill in for the weak link Bosman at 12.

• 35.Champs 95 07 and Beyond:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:29 am

  Oh yes keep and eye out for a young guy named JP du Plessis an awesome winger. He has spent the last couple of years here in Sydney. He has played for a rugby league side here called the Roosters/ Sydney City. And has now switched back to Union. Scored 3 tries for Manly. He is returning back to South Africa I believe with a contract to WP(?) He has played junior rugby for SA

• 36.justrugby:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:30 am

  Skop has often spoken about rugby being a young man’s game , after giving this comment some extended thought I have conclude that he is spot on !!!
  Any player over the age of 27 who has played test rugby I believe is on the decline. (obviously there is the exception).

  If you think about it, a player at 27 has probably played top rugby for a period of 12 years, here I am including top school boy rugby, from u16 level, u21, Vodacom, CC ,S15 and test rugby, year in , year out. The legs and body as a whole have been pounded every week over this period, there is no way a player at 27 with this amount of rugby behind him is as fast , as explosive, as strong as a player of say 23, or 24. (remember at 27 the average test player would have had their share of serious injuries)

  Now I look at the current Bok side and see our backline with Butch at over 30, Jean at over 30, Jacque at 28, Habs also approaching 30. Now it’s not just age that concerns me it’s age plus the amount of rugby these guys have played over the years, it’s the combination of the two that is the concern

  If you look at our pack, JS, VM, Bakkies, Danie , all over 30 and all played a high level and continual rugby for years. How many more explosive jumps has Vic got left in him, how many more rucks can Bakkies hit with same intensity of maybe 2 /3 years ago, Danies pace has been on the decline for some time.

  Now compare these players to players who are in their prime at say 24/25 ??

  We ask why our backline looks so redundant ? when they are up against the Coopers, Mitchells, Genias, Sonny Bills , Guliford, etc etc, our guys based on age and wear and tear simply are not fast or explosive enough anymore to really compete with these young, fast, skilled and “hungry” players .

  Now all our players I have spoken about are all great players and have been for some time but they are in decline, we have got the best out of them, their best is not still to come , it has already been given!!!

  If I was the next coach I would look at players younger than 28, those over 27 unless the exception, I am afraid we have already got the best out of them.

  You will find more and more players making debuts at test level at between 20-22 and bowing out at about 28, if nations want to remain competitive and be consistently successful I think that’s the way to go, irrespective of how successful a player has been. !!!

  The Lambies, Sadies, Hougardts,Kosters,Brussow, Elstads etc, etc need to be playing test rugby consistently sooner rather than later, if not we might just miss their best years at the expense of players who have already given their best !!

  It has become a young man’s game, just the way it is !!

• 37.Sasuke:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:32 am

  @Champs 95 07 and Beyond(Champs 95 07 and Beyond)-32: Frans needs to settle now. I agree he is more suited to 12. He has monster defence and can take pressure off his flyhalf by taking some kicks.

• 38.RL:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:33 am

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-33: his defense is on par with Lambie’s. He like Lambie and Sias are on the small side but they can tackle.

• 39.Sasuke:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:34 am

  @Champs 95 07 and Beyond(Champs 95 07 and Beyond)-35: When is he returning? He played for the Rebels in S15 right?

• 40.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:35 am

  @Champs 95 07 and Beyond(Champs 95 07 and Beyond)-32:

  Sarel, no way. He can’t tackle to save his life, and despite the amount of tries he scored he didn’t do the basics very well. He should rather be playing 7′s. Not even in the top 5 in SA.

  Lambie I just think is a fullback. Where he’s gone best. I think we should rather look after the player then look at what’s best for the Springboks. If we do what’s best for our players then things will come right at test level.

  Basson and Mvovo? JP Pietersen is still young. Sithole is potentially a better winger then Mvovo. Basson missed the 2nd most tackles in the Super 15 after Pretorius. When the game is 50% defense I think you at least need someone who can tackle.

  Juan de Jongh is the future at 12. Moves the ball around a bit, can play the bash it up sort of game and is a strong defender in the most attacked channel in rugby.

  And Jaco Taute is a good player, but no international.

  Better off looking at:
  9 Ruan Pienaar / Francois Hougaard
  10 Someone from Morne Steyn / Sias Ebersohn / Elton Jantjies / Peter Grant
  11 ?? Not sure, but definitely not Mvovo or Basson. I’d go Jaque Fourie.
  12 Juan de Jongh
  13 Johann Sadie
  14 JP Pietersen / Gio Aplon
  15 Francois Steyn / Pat Lambie

  How can you expect to compete when you have the two players who missed way more tackles then anyone else in the Super 15?

• 41.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:37 am

  @Champs 95 07 and Beyond(Champs 95 07 and Beyond)-35:

  Not sure what’s happening with him. Saw the Rebels let him go and thought Jake White might snap him up but that didn’t happen. And he hasn’t signed for any SA side yet.

• 42.grant10:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:38 am

  @RL(RL)-30: you are spot on….that Elton is looking damn good…

• 43.grant10:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:41 am

  @justrugby(justrugby)-36: 100%%%%%%%

• 44.Champs 95 07 and Beyond:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:42 am

  @ 39.Sasuke: In the press here it says he is on his way. Played his last game for Manly. Not sure if he played for Rebels possibly one or two games. The ex Saffa and league player Saffie played for Rebels

• 45.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:42 am

  @justrugby(justrugby)-36:

  Can’t agree with you at all. Some terrific players are on the wrong side of 20.

  Often it’s more to do with opposition targeting them, as well as people getting so used to them doing certain things they take it for granted.

  NFL athletes have their best years when they start hitting 30. They put up with as much if not more bruising then rugby players?

• 46.grant10:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:42 am

  @Sasuke(Sasuke)-37: i also see Frans as a 12

• 47.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:43 am

  @Champs 95 07 and Beyond(Champs 95 07 and Beyond)-44:

  Only played 3 odd minutes versus the Hurricanes. They released him after signing Beale and O’Connor.

• 48.hendrikp:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:47 am

  People complain about Jean de Villiers not passing the ball, and now want to play Francois Steyn at 12?

  Lest we forget we didn’t score any tries versus England in the World Cup final 2007 when we had Steyn at 12.

  Can’t see the point in replacing one player with someone who plays the exact same style, and hasn’t got the same sort of experience there.

• 49.Desmond_Tiete:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:47 am

  obviously Elton will look good in a “Vodacom Cup Standard” – Currie Cup! Hell even WP “B” are looking good! … Elton had a shocking Super Rugby Tourny and he must be judged on that! he is no Lambie! – Its like comparing Fourie Dup with January!

• 50.Champs 95 07 and Beyond:
  17 Aug 2011, 08:47 am

  @ 40.hendrikp: Pienaar is another Slap Chip. Slow and boring!!!! Agree with Hougaard versatile. Yes I forgot about the Ebersohn brothers. Thought JP Pieterson was much older but if under 26 he is future for next 4 years.

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