449 Comments

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• 51.Sheriff:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:49 pm

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-42:

  Apartheid can never be ok: you cannot deny people to own property for generations and think it’s ok.

  Also, to deny people a decent education is also one of the worst forms of oppression.

  Hou op om verskoninkies te maak vir apartheid, dit was afstootlik.

• 52.John Galt:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:50 pm

  @John Galt(John Galt)-35:
  What I mean by saying Transform, yes, is that transformation is a reality and there is no way around it in SA. But its vital to do it at the correct level.

• 53.Transformation:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:51 pm

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-42: blah blah let’s all have convinient amnesia and ignore the fat that “preference” for non-blacks in rugby was entrenched to a structural level – ie facilities. and the people who benefitted from that system are still the GATEKEEPERS today in those unions.

  transformation is NOT apartheid in reverse! we will not sit by and HOPE that people like you somehow MIRACULOUSLY change their attitudes, fuckthat!

  you have no regard for black people, no interest in their culture, well-being let alone prosperity it would be foolhardy of any black person to hinge hopes of a better life for themselves or their progeny on your kind!

• 54.hendrikp:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:52 pm

  @mxhosa(mxhosa)-46:

  Not many black players there either. Willemse was a favourite of Jake White, who was then of course Springbok coach, and he didn’t last long. He had what, 3 tries in 20 tests or something along those lines? Odwa Ndungane was/is a better winger.

  And again Dewey Swartbooi got his oppurtunity. He played an entire season as starting 12 for the Bulls in the Super 12. Did he cut it? No. Good defender, but he struggled, a lot.

  It’s because the white players are better. You can’t develop black players at this level. It needs to start earlier.

• 55.Tacitus:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:53 pm

  @Sheriff(Sheriff)-51:

  Talk about a post going totally over your head. Read it again, chum. I’m using apartheid as the benchmark of what is immoral, not condoning it.

• 56.grant10:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:53 pm

  @Gunther(gunther)-45: LOL

• 57.BULLET:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:54 pm

  @51 – I could not agree with you more.
  Apartheid was appalling. No good comes out of oppressing a race.
  Tacitus has a point though, whats happening now is similar to reverse apartheid. We are oppressing a race for another. We just have a new name and grand for is. (Affirmitive Action, BBBEE, transformation…you name it)

  Bottom line is the following: when you select 1 over another based on race, its equally appalling.

  Somehow SA are still stuck in this mould, its just the pendulum swinging.

  Great article on IOL today written in the States stating that the current regime in SA is simply Apartheid in another colour.

• 58.hendrikp:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:57 pm

  If anything we’re in a situation now where all the black players in the squad deserve their place. Also had Ashley Johnson & Lwazi Mvovo who were fairly unlucky.

  That hasn’t been the case in the past. We’ve had to put up with Lawrence Sephaka, Eddie Andrews, Dale Santon, Hanyani Shimange, Quinton Davids, Norman Jordaan (was that his name), Gcobani Bobo, Zane Kirchner (debatable)…

  At least now we have players who can actually say they deserve to be there and haven’t been picked because of the colour of their skin. To me that’s progress.

• 59.kaksioek:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:57 pm

  In 2009, SARU said the Springboks wouldn’t play against the New Zealand Maori team because of the former’s policy of preventing its teams from competing against opposition selected along racial lines.

  And now the president of SARU is being hauled over the coals because our national team isn’t black enough!

  You couldn’t make this **** up.

• 60.rangerman:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:57 pm

  i am still waiting for branco to play regularly for a s15 province.

  man, in the land of the dwergies that guy would be king man!

  but seriously, who gives a toss about transformation really?

  its all about a smash and grab actually imo, because it is quite clear that cream, be it black or white, rises to the top like elton jantjes or jdj or gio or beast etc.

  but the playing pool of black players is simply so much smaller and therefore probability suggests that white players will continue to make up the numbers until this is not the case.

  imo nc nc nc tl tl tl tl and fu

• 61.Tacitus:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:58 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-53:

  You’re wrong on a number of fronts in that post, but you are right that you should not pin your hopes for the future on anyone else. And you’re right that better infrastructure is needed for the disadvantaged in society.

  So give them that. What’s happening to all that tax money we’re paying? Build rugbyfields at these schools, employ sports teachers, start phys ed again.

  Give these guys bursaries, get some BEE tycoons to fund black clubs.

  Get the Kings – where you are your own gatekeeper, to develop all these black superstars. If any of them are matchwinners, they will be bought up by the Bulls or the Stormers or the Sharks in no time, because those guys want every edge they can get to up their winning record.

  You should see how many coloured kids from the Western Cape Heyneke Meyer is “buying” to relocate to schools in Pretoria, because he wants them for the Bulls in 5 years time.

  Sport is about winning, nothing else. That’s what you need to realise.

• 62.Sheriff:
  25 Aug 2011, 14:59 pm

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-55:

  Do you see anyone here condoning ‘scorched earth policy’ or the ‘concentration camps’?

  You think you can get off on a technicality, not a chance.

  Stop arguing for white privilege – corrupt politicians aside; they were there then and are there now- difference is that it is reported better these days.

• 63.Transformation:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:00 pm

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-50: “It has nothing to do with how they’ve been treated or developed by the franchises. They just simply weren’t good enough”

  yes hendrik, keep believing that stuff and while you’re at it, pass the zol

  8)

• 64.Gunther:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:00 pm

  @Taahirah(Taahirah)-49:

  one slighlty used speedo.

  and a DIY turbo reverse exhaust kit.

• 65.RL:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:02 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-21: usually only Ryan follows Keo around like a lapdog

  Now the one good thing that Hoskins did is cut the amount of professional provinces from 14 to 6 … the Presidents council is gone too.

  Next he has to break the back of the unions who host 3N test matches, only the new stadiums in CPT, Durban, PE and soccer city should play host to these matches.

  Anything to get rid of Reyneke

• 66.Transformation:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:02 pm

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-61: why BEE tycoons?

  is it not the responsibility of every south african to build a better life for all?

  you’re only interested in self but b*tch when it starts affecting you hahaha

• 67.rangerman:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:04 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-53: whoaah there bronco, settle now.

  tac has never shown himself to be anything other than happy to debate issues.

  the access to facilities is a good point but i think sometimes black people forget about the quite large white middle to lower class who dot exactly have first world facilities either and still produce athletes much as black athletes/ football stars still come out of the same areas where lack of facilities is blamed for lack of rugby players.

  its simply not that simple buddy.

• 68.Gunther:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:04 pm

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-61:

  Heineken relocating cullard kids to tshwane?

  I spy the (cack)hand of Jimmy Manyi.

• 69.hendrikp:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:05 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-63:

  If they were as good as you’re making out, they would’ve been retained. Otherwise how about pointing out the racist coaches that are obviously all around. That way we can all have a laugh while being better informed.

• 70.Tacitus:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:07 pm

  @Sheriff(Sheriff)-62:

  Have you been drinking? Cause whatever you read isn’t what was written.

• 71.RL:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:08 pm

  @kaksioek(kaksioek)-43: why does Keo moan about the CapeSaders while wearing his Arsesanal shirt … does he not support Santos?

• 72.Sheriff:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:09 pm

  Tac

  You always try to construct little arguments that would create the illusion that you’re fair in this matter. You are not, and there are many who think like you.

  The main streams of arguments are always the same.

  Take off your 2 tone shirt , Jason Michael jeans and grasshoppers. Trade in your white Toyota bakkie. Get a Tata or something.

  Make a difference man.

• 73.rangerman:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:11 pm

  racists around every corner stopping black kids who have been contracted from being successful because they wont say yes baas.

  what a joke.

  the world owes you nothing people, nothing.

  and sport owes you less.

• 74.Sheriff:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:12 pm

  Colour is important to me.

  There are 2 sets of colours that are important to me:

  a. Green and gold
  b. Blue and white

• 75.Transformation:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:12 pm

  @rangerman(rangerman)-67: the populations of mdantsane & soweto alone come close to matching this “large white middle to lower class”, well done to them, they must share the recipe

• 76.kaksioek:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:12 pm

  @RL(RL)-71: Yes, what is Keo doing to further the great cause of transformation? Not enough, judging from the banner on the front page of the website. Two whiteys and one coloured bloke – it’s just not good enough.

• 77.Gunther:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:13 pm

  @Sheriff(Sheriff)-72:

  how are you making a difference?

  apart from giving everybody earache?

• 78.mxhosa:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:13 pm

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-61:

  Heynecke Meyer has been buying black kids from the EC since 2003 cause he to develop them for the bulls, where are they now???

• 79.Tacitus:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:13 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-66:

  No, it is not the responsibility of every South African to create a better life for all. Where on earth did you come by that bit of brainless twaddle?

  It is the responsibility of every person who wishes to make a difference in someone else’s life to do so. Out of his own volition. Not by being forced.

  I do so on many fronts – and to people of all races – in small ways everyday. But it is my choice. It is not my duty.

  Hence, there may be causes that lie close to my heart, and to that I will donate money or time. In the same way, someone to whom the development of underpriviliged schoolsports is a priority, should then support it financially.

  Personally, I believe the need for food and clothes etc. should come before the “right to play every sport imaginable”, which in my view is a luxury, not a right.

  But anyone who feels different can put their time and money where their mouths are.

• 80.Transformation:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:15 pm

  @rangerman(rangerman)-73: nobody is owed anything

• 81.malcolm:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:16 pm

  Forced Transformation of any sport is wrong, evil, and not indicative of a free society. What needs to be done is to level the playing fields so that the very best players come through the youth systems irrespective of their race. To succeed in sport takes dedication and hard work not only talent and this should encouraged not hand outs and rewards for mediocrity. Imagine the outcry if in the US the government expressed the need to transform the NFL or NBA to include more white players to reflect the demographics of the country. They would be slammed for being racist. Politicians should stay out of sport. A Springbok team that is more reflective of the different races in South Africa will naturally occur over time.

• 82.Transformation:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:16 pm

  @rangerman(rangerman)-73: quite right, nobody owes non-black kids anything, they can’t moan about not playing wing

• 83.Great White Shark:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:16 pm

  @Gunther(gunther)-77:

  Don’t worry. The ANCYL will nationalise SA Rugby eventually.

• 84.iceman:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:18 pm

  I just think it’s about time that we forget about “Transformation” and come up with something new which will work.

  In my opinion, change has to come from within and on laws will change that!

  The players themselves have to show change and make it happen for themselves. All they require is a fair chance and financial commitment from the authorities in rugby development.

  We must invest in promising young players who show a bit of younger to succeed and then support them through out their development and not desert them after school.

  We have so much talent at school level but it dissapears immediately there after.

• 85.Train:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:18 pm

  I have never rated Hoskins. He is one of those people who believes compromise is the ONLY form of leadership.

  Keo talks about irony… another one is that the leader probably best placed to lead rugby whilst ensuring transformation and a winning culture is Morne Du Plessis.

  Still believe he made a horlicks of the whole bok emblem thing – disgrace that it’s only on the sleeve of the jersey at the wc.

• 86.Great White Shark:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:18 pm

  @mxhosa(mxhosa)-78:

  Every time he gave them a set of rugby boots they’d take them and run. The ones that came back were able to be used.

• 87.Transformation:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:19 pm

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-79: great then, i wasn’t talking about you, but about the NON-BLACK TYCOONS

• 88.John Galt:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:19 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-39:
  The Sharks?
  Why dont you look a little closer to home pal.
  Go ask the Kings why their team is looking more like a white, has been graveyard than the pinnacle of transformation its was made out to be in the press.

• 89.Sheriff:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:20 pm

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-79:

  Solidariteit se skooltassie projek?

• 90.rangerman:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:21 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-75: yes transie, the point is that they produce rugby talent with little access to facilities.

  did you decide to ignore that?

  i think they will share the recipe happily.

  its called passion, much like soweto has for soccer.

  verstaan?

  @mxhosa(mxhosa)-78: they are being kept in a secret camp far from the prying eyes of the press or public because heaven forbid these super athletes were ever allowed onto a real rugby field!

  we would instantly have to concede that whites could not only not jump, but not play rugby either!

  so i applaud heyneke for taking these kids out of the biggest sh it hole province in south africa where they had a 1 in 150,000,000 chance of success and ensuring they never saw the light of day by surrounding them with racist du tchies.

  viva heyneke viva!

• 91.Transformation:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:21 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-81: “What needs to be done is to level the playing fields”

  tell us HOW malcom.

• 92.Tacitus:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:21 pm

  This issue really is a no-brainer.

  The cream will always rise to the top. Like Habana, Beast, Gurthro, Pietersen etc.

  If there was another Gurthro hanging around in Bulls country, they would pick him in a heartbeat if it helped them win more trophies. Because in the end what is important is winning. Nothing more and nothing less.

• 93.Markel77:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:21 pm

  JP du Plessis 20 years old youngster plays for Melbourne Rebels Superugby team.
  Andries Ferreira 21 years old guy (ex Bulls lock ) will play for Biarritz academy nest year.
  Bernard le Roux 22 years old (ex Border flanker) will play for Racing Metro academy next year.
  Conrad Marais 22 years old namibian centre will be in Bordeaux academy next year.
  They never played Superugby or Currie Cup
  ¿Why the europeans teams are not interested in Howard Mnisi, Mlungisi Bali, Luvuyiso Lusaseni, Tilifhatu Marole, Siya Mkiva, Siya Mdaka….?
  ¿Can you answer my cuestion?

• 94.RL:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:22 pm

  @kaksioek(kaksioek)-76: you should read the names of those who work at HSM … there are about 3 or 4 Keohane’s … nepotism

  @Transformation(Transformation)-80: Plod owed it to himself to go to the RWC.

• 95.Tacitus:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:23 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-87:

  Well, if the non-black tycoons are going to fund black players, who is going to fund the white players? The black tycoons?

  Or must the black kids get everything?

• 96.Train:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:23 pm

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-92: Im a bulls fan but not so keen on Guthro. I’ve never recovered from the sight of him having his head shuffed up his proverbial by castro giovanni (it was deeply embarrasing)

• 97.rangerman:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:25 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-82: you are being a little silly transie, surely your humour must grow up now?

• 98.Transformation:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:26 pm

  @John Galt(John Galt)-88: hehehe the current team is a means to an end, get with the program china…

  EP Kings Academy, watch this space!

  it’s not about creating the blackest team ever but an enabling environment for everyone who is talented to succeed. woz’ uzobona

• 99.Tacitus:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:28 pm

  I see Kolisi is the new black hero. Let’s hope he succeeds. And let’s hope that there isn’t an uprising if the next Schalk Burger or Juan Smith makes him work for his place in the starting line up.

• 100.rangerman:
  25 Aug 2011, 15:31 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-98:

  “an enabling environment for everyone who is talented to succeed”

  what a load of liberal horse sh it doublespeak.

  its embarrassing that you even spluge this kind of nonsense into cyberspace, luckily for you, you are anonymous.

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