Back Bismarck, axe Morne
12 Sep 2011
MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day column, says the Springboks have to change who starts and how they play if they want to defend their World Cup title.
Forget the old cliché that this was a character builder for the Boks. This team of champions has enough character and they’ve been through enough scraps in the last eight years to never want to endure another 80 minutes like Sunday’s in Wellington.
The Springboks don’t need more exposure to character-building situations in this World Cup and the head-coaching trio, out of their depth for the last four years, surely don’t need another match to know that the best XV has to start every game in this tournament and that includes Bismarck du Plessis at hooker and excludes Morne Steyn at flyhalf.
The Welsh goal-kicking implosion in the last few minutes means there can be calm in the Bok camp and not the hysteria that would have followed defeat.
There can be perspective and not national persecution. There can be reflection and not condemnation.
Wales flyhalf Rhys Priestland missed a drop goal from smack bang in front with five minutes to play and fullback James Hook fluffed the chance to win the match with an angled 35m penalty three minutes from the end. Had either of those two kicks gone over the mood in the Bok camp and the emotion among the South African rugby public would have been a lot different than it is this morning.
I keep on writing about the honesty needed within our rugby and within the Bok squad. It has never been more appropriate than this morning. Forget patriotism for a moment and focus on pragmatism. The patriotism at this tournament belongs to New Zealand. The Boks need something more tangible to defend the title won four years ago.
The Boks remain one of three teams who can win this tournament. Australia put down the biggest marker in the first weekend and New Zealand’s home ground advantage remains their biggest asset because they are limited as a team and the great among them merely balance out the many mediocre All Blacks playing for a first World Cup win in 24 years.
But for the Boks to move on from the Houdini escape in Wellington there has to be an acknowledgement of what works and what doesn’t. There has to be criticism from within that is not interpreted as a negative but rather is applauded as a positive. To win here the Boks have to change who starts and how they play. Wales gave every South African the most timely reminder that what worked in 2007 won’t be good enough to beat one of Australia or New Zealand in a play-off.
The Boks next nervous 80 minutes will be a probable quarter-final against Ireland and the examination will be as demanding as those questions asked by the Welsh.
Samoa, in the pool match-up, won’t challenge the Boks because they don’t have the game or the composure to win ugly against a side as experienced or powerful as South Africa.
Wales were outstanding. Let’s start there. Welsh coach Warren Gatland tactically got everything right against the Boks. They kept the ball, kept it close, used the powerful Jamie Roberts to run at Morne Steyn all match and played the field percentages almost to perfection.
Welsh captain and specialist fetcher Sam Warburton was colossal. He played with the precision and irritation of a young Richie McCaw and starved the Boks of ball. He deserved to lead a historic triumph in Wellington.
Wales had 60% of territory and possession, conceded just five penalties – only one of them kickable – and poached three South African lineouts.
Yet they still lost because it is not in their DNA to beat the Springboks, and when the biggest moments of the game came their players did not have the nerve, the conviction and the courage in decision making to win it. Wales were in unfamiliar territory against the Boks and the match they talked of all week they couldn’t quite play out according to script.
Aside from Australia – and possibly New Zealand – this Welsh effort would have beaten every team at this tournament, but that will be small comfort to Gatland and Warburton.
The Boks, beaten on the ground, in the air, in the tackle and in the collision, were never beaten in their minds – and the belief that they could conjure up seven points, almost at will, never deserted them.
The opening try to the impressive Frans Steyn was vintage Boks, but what proved to be the match winner from Francois Hougaard in the 65th minute showed the qualities of a champion who has been there before and delivered.
South Africa always had the one punch to strike from anywhere that was more threatening than the collective build-up of so many impressive Welsh attacks.
Bismarck du Plessis was monumental in the final quarter, Hougaard was inspirational and Willem Alberts was destructive. Not so those they replaced.
598 Comments
12 Sep 2011, 10:02 am
pick the right dragons!
12 Sep 2011, 10:06 am
and that’s your insight first up lol
12 Sep 2011, 10:08 am
” They kept the ball, kept it close, used the powerful Jamie Roberts to run at Morne Steyn all match”
Why didn’t Rassie move F. Steyn into the flyhalf channel when we we were on defence to confront Roberts head on. Why do we have this technical consultant who cannot make technical switches when the heat is on?
12 Sep 2011, 10:09 am
Very fair point Keo, but to be fair, our players (almost al) are not as well conditioned as what they should be, our game plan is not brilliant at the moment, and we were very lucky to pull the win.
We need to pick the right players, yes, but our forwards need to stop taking the ball 2-3m behind every ruck/maul. We need to rather pick and go directly from the bottom of rucks & mauls, and suck in the defense before we run the ball.
I also hope that this game shows that Morne will only be effective when our forwards dominate. Without Bakkies & Juan Smith starting, we are battling to dominate up front.
12 Sep 2011, 10:09 am
keo – I think your very wrong Morne Steyn played rather well. He even got the backline running. Anyway Butch will be playing 12 now while JDV is getting better.
Pier Speis is the biggest worry as was he usual paff self!!
12 Sep 2011, 10:09 am
@3,
You do not weaken a position to strengthen another…that approach has limitations.
Rather pick a 10 who can defend
12 Sep 2011, 10:10 am
i dont think smitty was bad at all and i think the impact of bizness was timed perfectly.
losing vic and bakkies has obviously diluted our line out.
but spies can catch a short ride to the bench as can habana.
if jdv is out, frans to 12, gio or lambie to 15.
steyn?
eish, tough one but why have a percentage goalkicker in the team if you arent going to play the game in the oppositions half?
pointless imo and the samoans will stomp his head in as they run over him.
12 Sep 2011, 10:10 am
I would love to see the following back line
9 FDP
10 Butch
11 Hougard
12 Lambie
13 Fourie
14 Pietersen (with a kick in the pants to work harder off the ball)
15 Steyn
12 Sep 2011, 10:10 am
It’s almost as if Rassie was hoping that Morne would be trampled into the dirt for good, just to get rid of him … if that was the plan then Rassie you are indeed a genius.
12 Sep 2011, 10:11 am
My post number 8 is for Fiji of course
12 Sep 2011, 10:11 am
@9, non of our coaching staff are that smart and have that ind of foresight!
12 Sep 2011, 10:12 am
i have to disagree…
the world cup will be won by kicks… we need morne steyn there… sure he didn’t have his best game… but won’t play as badly again…
i would still start with smit… i’ve said that bismarck has the most impact on a game off the bench… and quite frankly… think he proved just that on sunday…
12 Sep 2011, 10:12 am
Axe Morne when he was the only kicker to get all his kicks in the opening games while the rest all showed their limitations. What would of happened had Butch been selected, failed to fire the backline (due to the backline not actually being coached…Muir..) and Butch then going on to miss the hard kicks Morne got. A loss.
Butch can start against the Island teams, however. But Morne on bench.
12 Sep 2011, 10:13 am
@12 – Agree with Smit
disagree with Steyn
12 Sep 2011, 10:13 am
why did we play such beautiful ball in hand rugby for the first 5 mins, score a try and then hoof possession away for the next 60 mins?
wtf?
12 Sep 2011, 10:14 am
Morne’s a rock-steady bet — one who will NEVER ever get carded for dodgy tackling and one whose general midrange goalkicking boot has no equal on earth, So, he can’t tackle like Carter or Cooper or Butch… hey, Naas couldn’t tackle either!
Bismarck is better than Smit — no doubt. But only as a hooker and an extra loosie. He’s a truly dreadful lineout thrower and he has a wose “card-me” hotheaded temperament. than James Dalton.
12 Sep 2011, 10:15 am
SA’s problems started up front, with the exception of Burger the forward ball-carriers struggled to get over the gainline. That all changed when Bismarck and Alberts came on. Until then the backs were working with awful slow ball.
12 Sep 2011, 10:15 am
@15 –
We started to defend the lead! Muhahahahahaa
12 Sep 2011, 10:15 am
Bullet /RL – Are you guys mental. We need Morne Steyn on that pitch even just for kicking. Now that Du Preez is back to his best he will be able to take the play making off Morne Steyn more and more. Besides it was evident that Morne Steyn plays better when Du Preez is on the pitch!!!
Morne Steyn has got big match temperament when it come to kicking. If it was Morne Steyn taking that last gasp kick that Hook took, M Steyn would have slotted it!! THus winning the game!!!
12 Sep 2011, 10:16 am
butch was lucky to not get pinged a few times… a less level-headed ref than barnes would have pinged him at least twice for high no-arms tackles…
he must be careful…
12 Sep 2011, 10:16 am
“Australia put down the biggest marker in the first weekend”
I beg to differ. They were mauled in the scrums and the score at half time was 6-6. If they come up against England in the quarters or semi’s England will scrum them into the ground and take advantage of the dominance. Italy had them at the scrum but could not turn that into points. A team like England will put the Aussies away.
12 Sep 2011, 10:17 am
look, people can talk about steyns kicking all they like but seriously chaps, how many times can morne be flattened by runners like roberts and also not find touch with clearance kicks before we realise that he was a liability?
thanks for all the penalties morne but you are the weakest link, goodbye.
12 Sep 2011, 10:17 am
Keo,
Rather than focus on personnel we should instead look at the game plan/strategy.
Fourie D, Morne and even Vic were poor on Sunday. Whilst I accept that they are older and undercooked, I believe the biggest reason for their (and others) general cra+pness is the lack of a coherent and workable game plan.
Bring on Bismark and perhaps Butch but you still wont see the step change performance required to win a wc
12 Sep 2011, 10:19 am
Tac – Atleast some here sees Morne Steyns worth!
12 Sep 2011, 10:20 am
@19 – While I agree with you that Morne’s kicking is needed, I am concerned about his defensive frailties.
He was badly exposed by Roberts!
12 Sep 2011, 10:20 am
@BULLET(BULLET)-18:
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-17: not for the first 5 mins biggie, but ja after that we were useless.
big units like beast and roussouw need to do a bit more.
@race of tan(race of tan)-19: du preez back to his best?
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! the oke was k ukker than kuk.
12 Sep 2011, 10:21 am
WHAT is so difficult about alternating the two Steyns – Morne on our ball and Frans on theirs and depending on filed position, WHAT???
And people are on about Smit/Bismarck – who even noticed the Welsh hooker on knows his name? A far more pressing issue, to my mind at least, is what a liability Pierre Spies was in this match – when are we going to learn???
For the rest, yes we had some luck – but showed lots of balls to scrape through, so thank you Bokke!
12 Sep 2011, 10:21 am
@24 – I agree that Morne kicking is massively important.
I worry that Roberts has shown the way for all the new teams to play against us.It will be interresting to see if Fiji follow the Welsh approach.
12 Sep 2011, 10:22 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-16: and you’re a d00s
12 Sep 2011, 10:22 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-19: FDup is back to his best???
ok mate sorry but that is damn funny
12 Sep 2011, 10:23 am
Start with Bissie, Alberts, Hougaard and Butch. And replace de Villiers with de Jong, Matfield with Muller.
The chance of this happening… probably pretty slim.
12 Sep 2011, 10:23 am
BULLET – Jamie Roberts is a bit of a monster however!! Isnt our loosies meant ot protect Morne Steyn?
What did you think of PriestLands play? I thought that youngster had the game of his life, has massive BMT!!
12 Sep 2011, 10:24 am
sorry Keo, I’m too busy for meaningful insights today.
However, as much as I would love to see Steyn on the bench instead, that horse has bolted. His goal kicking is immaculate but he offers nothing further in attack or defence.
Bismarck HAS to start – I’m a big Smittie fan but Bismarck brings an extra dimension to our pack, and Spies doesn’t deserve to be there either.
12 Sep 2011, 10:24 am
Morne “the Gate” Steyn cause that’s what his channel was.
12 Sep 2011, 10:24 am
@Train(Train)-23: well it looked like there was a gameplane to me.
skoppie ****** ding!
so stupid, so frustrating and so badly executed.
12 Sep 2011, 10:25 am
I see everyone is forgetting Juan de Jongh is in the squad. Why put him in place of JDV at 12??
12 Sep 2011, 10:26 am
Poor start but a win is a win. Wel all know it was going to be a hard one. We don’t even have to go back to the drawing board because the coaching stuff now what to do. But will they do it ? Why leave the best of the best on the bench ? Play your best 15 , what’s so difficult in doing so ? Why do this coach have to rely on a player that haven’t stand out this season. It’s not going to be easy if we stick to the same old players that’s not up to standard. I hope the coaching stuff will open there eyes.
12 Sep 2011, 10:26 am
one very simple solution to all the woes.
Park John Smit how more complicated you wanna make the connundrum? Had Boks started Bismark at 2, Alberts at B and Hougaard at 9 with Butch at 10 NONE and Zero soul searching would be on the menu this morning. Very simple solution for a seeming complex equation. Wales would simply NOT have gained any foothold in that game. How f’ng complicated can it possibly be?
12 Sep 2011, 10:27 am
Rangerman – The Boks won that game in second gear!! THe Welsh were in 5th. The Boks were alos able to switch it on when they needed. Hougie scored a great try, i wonder if Habs would have used the blindside like that?
12 Sep 2011, 10:27 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-36: why indeed. When he starts learning that its OK to pass the ball every now and again, then maybe.
12 Sep 2011, 10:27 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-36:
“Why not put him in place of JDV at 12??”
12 Sep 2011, 10:27 am
one reads on blogs and the press how we have to have MOrne no matter what??
The reason the Welsh stayed streong against us was very clear
All they did was run at the 10 channel all match long, there they could get through without a problem
that gave them easy passage to the front foot
Now one thing is for sure, the Fijians will also run at that channel, and they will run harder then the Welsh, Also poor and maybe even more so was FDup , his kicking out of hand was rubbish to say the least,against the Fijians we cannot afford to give them cheap ball
12 Sep 2011, 10:28 am
“New Zealand’s home ground advantage remains their biggest asset because they are limited as a team and the great among them merely balance out the many mediocre All Blacks playing for a first World Cup win in 24 years.:
Lol!!!!!!!!
12 Sep 2011, 10:28 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-36: Agreed!
12 Sep 2011, 10:29 am
@ufo(ufo)-12: “sure he didn’t have his best game… but won’t play as badly again” – how do you know this?
12 Sep 2011, 10:29 am
funny thing is we will hear tac and a few others saying “spies didnt have the chance to run around like an olympic hurdler because his forwards werent dominant etc etc”.
but then why could alberts run through the welsh and go over the advantage line when he came on?
because alberts is not a muscle bound soft co ck i suppose.
oh how i wish kanko had been give even 20% of the opportunities this overrated showpony has been given over the last 4 years!
12 Sep 2011, 10:30 am
@Boom15(Boom15)-34: Naas “the gate” Botha. Because that’s what his channel was. But he’s legendary as “Naasty Booter” — because that’s what he did supremely well.
12 Sep 2011, 10:30 am
if numbers 1-5 don’t do their work you can pick Tutu at 10 it won’t matter
12 Sep 2011, 10:30 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-16: rubbish, Plod messed up x2 lineout feeds against the dragons … so much for that theory about Plod being a better lineout thrower.
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-17: indeed, Spies is no tight forward at all, the only time he carried the ball into contact was when Brussow pushed him … the Beast is also no tight forward, he likes to play a loose game, standing on the wing trying to play like some glory boy flank, drop him from the 22 and play Guthro who hit and cleared out more rucks in his 25min than Beast did all match.
Then there is Plod, a fat passenger of note who leaves the team playing with one man down actually he and Spies meant we were playing with a handicap of 2 forwards … and Matfield played with an injury so he was playing at 50% of his best.
It is a miracle that we won with 5 1/2 forwards on the park.
12 Sep 2011, 10:30 am
Can somebody tell me what Butch James adds to the team? I would rather play Lambie at 12. He and Morne can switch during the game. My team for Fiji
15.) Frans Steyn
14.) JP Pietersen
13.) Jacque Fourie
12.) Pat Lambie
11.) Francois Hougaard
10.) Morne Steyn
9.) Fourie du Preez
8.) Schalk Burger
7.) Willem Alberts
6.) Heinrich Brussouw
5.) Johan Muller
4.) Danie Rossouw
3.) Jannie Du Plessis
2.) Bismarck du Plessis
1.) Beast Mtawaria
16.) CJ van der Linde
17.) John Smit
18.) Francois Louw
19.) Pierre Spies
20.) Ruan Pienaar
21.) Butch James
22.) Juan de Jongh
12 Sep 2011, 10:31 am
@trupisero(trupisero)-33: much better you are forgiven
12 Sep 2011, 10:31 am
@trupisero(trupisero)-40: I am sure he passes the same amount of times if not more than JDV? Will be able replacement. Also very good tackler. Better than Lambie in that regard and against the hard running Fijians we need good defence.
12 Sep 2011, 10:31 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-46:
Its simple Spies is built for show Alberts is built to go.
12 Sep 2011, 10:32 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-46: You are wrong . Spies and kanko , Koster are the same players. how can any of them play if Beast and Danie are always in the backline
12 Sep 2011, 10:32 am
The problem with starting all these players is that we will not have a bench capable of making a telling impact. At best they can cover injuries but not up the game.
12 Sep 2011, 10:32 am
@President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-42: when adi jacobs was targeted by the same jamie roberts and was battered everyone and their dog were shouting from roof tops that he must be replaced and nothing about someone else must stand in the 13 channel on defence…
interesting
12 Sep 2011, 10:33 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-39: mate, the boks looked sh it, they were sh it and they deserved to lose.
simply put, the welsh were the better team.
morne can get lost, spies too. smitty? well as i said, grind him against the islanders because bizness will rule the playoffs.
habs can also take a hike to the bench or the plane home.
young hougie is a starter in my books.
and frans to 12, lambie/gio to 15.
alberts at 8.
yeeha, easy peasy all over rove goodnight nures fckadilly and fark caps.
12 Sep 2011, 10:33 am
@RL(RL)-3: Because Rassie is overrated and only good in the eyes of the Province fans. What has he done with the WP so far with all that talent at his disposal?
My question is will Bissy (yes), Hougie (maybe) and Alberts (no) make the same impact when they play for 80 min? Also Brussow was good at times but imo he schooled by that Welsh chappie.
When we were good when we had ball in hand. Those Welshies was no where when we ran at them….. guess we have to get the ball first.
12 Sep 2011, 10:34 am
@keo(keo)-51: now that’s a great relief
12 Sep 2011, 10:35 am
We had two injuries, involving two of our most experienced and crucial players, and our absolute key player – Fourie du Preez – had a nightmare match. Plus someone must have fed Pierre Spies sleeping tablets or Tipex…
And Wales played magnificently…
So, let us take our win humbly and graciously….
12 Sep 2011, 10:36 am
@HHS(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-58:
The only reason that Brussow got ‘schooled’ was because he had no support while the Welsh 7 had support at the breakdowns.
12 Sep 2011, 10:36 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-38:
Boring us with your repetitive shite as usual. Tell your mate de Villiers you moron. You were one of the first to toyi toyi when he was made coach.
Now you must live with the consequences.
12 Sep 2011, 10:36 am
we’re talking a lot about the boks players, but the welsh need credit. they were hungy, aggressive, relentless, disciplined, direct, and accurate – at everything they did except kick for poles.
dont think you’ll ever see wales play btter than that. however the boks will improve plenty – they have a plan, and it is about hitting form in game 5, not in game 1. only problem with that plan is the youngsters who came off bench seem to have form already.
12 Sep 2011, 10:37 am
@HHS(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-58: Welsh cappie was brilliant, but to be fair, Heinrich had to make far more tackles and couldn’t really compete for large parts of the game.
12 Sep 2011, 10:37 am
For me its pretty clear who the team should be also now that it’s confirmed MAtfield and JDiv is out of this comming weekends game.
15 Lambie Solid with good Boot, also good kicker at poles
14 Aplon Good left boot
13 JF
12 F STeyn can also kick for poles etc
11 JPP
10 Butch can kick for poles etc
09 HOugaard, just looks so much hungrier and faster
08 Schalk
07 ALberts
06 Brussow
05 Muller
04 Rossouw
03 Jannie
02 BIsmark
01 Beast/Gurthro
16 Smit
17 CJ, only because he covers both sides, but mainly TH
18 Spies, Alberts prolly to move to lock if needed,has lock cover has been called up Mostert?
19 Flouw
20 Pienaar
21 JDJ
22 Habana
12 Sep 2011, 10:38 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-56:
Exactly…..
Roberts made Butch & Morne look like amateurs.James to my suprise was very BANG to tackle Roberts who got over the adv line AT WILL no matter who was standing in his channel.
Morne was abysmal in contact,worse than Adi at the worst of times in fact.
12 Sep 2011, 10:39 am
Lucky day at the office yesterday. Welsh really coughed that one up. We owe them some beers for the freebie.
De Villiers is over-rated. Ordinary on defence and can’t get Fourie away. Either put Butch or Lambie at 12 or a genuine No12 – like Doppies Le Grange. Don’t laugh – the reason why the Lions penetrate defences more than any other SA franchise is his distribution skills. Can also poach ball on the ground which JDV cannot do. Check his stats – he beats JDV hands down.
Spies, needs to be an impact player when the game is a bit more open. Alberts to start at 8. Burger not too bad and Brussouw was superb but give the Welsh credit for their rucking. Locks are fine – Bakkies makes a big difference. Roussow remembered how to hold onto the ball after an early spill. Thought Muller was excellent.
Front rows are fine, as long as Smit only plays hooker. Bismark’s impact was immense, but that is when he can do the most damage. Bringing on Bismark and Spies puts enormous pressure on the opposition – right way to go.
M Steyn is terrible on defence and its no longer the old days when Naas didn’t have to tackle (in fact he was instructed not to by his coach). Each player needs to be able to tackle and he was terrible. His kicking out of hand was poor, many kicks were too deep to be reclaimed and simply handed possession back. He’s not playing with the precision of S14 2010 – simple.
FDP got better as the game wore on – showing some rustiness that’s all.
F Steyn was excellent – fullback is his place, not 12.
Peterson was OK but needs to work a bit harder.
The less said about Habana the better. Hougaard embarrassed him. He should be in the suites drinking with corporates.
12 Sep 2011, 10:39 am
I don’t like to say it about such a great player, probably the best scrum-half I have seen but Fourie Du Preez appears to be playing scared, weak under the high ball and especially weak in the tackle. I wonder if he is really recovered from his previous injury.
12 Sep 2011, 10:39 am
@pokkel(pokkel)-61:
I agree. I saw Brussouw isolated several times while competing for the ball and he simply got mauled off the ball as he wasn’t being supported.
12 Sep 2011, 10:39 am
rangerman – I agree with Frans Steyn to 12, De Jongh is too smal, and Lambie to 15!!! Atleast we can then give Butch a run at 10 and have Morne Steyn on the bench. We ahve big problems with Spies as who the heck replaces him now? I guess if Mostert comes overs we then have Muller/Mostert at locks and then Rousouw/Burger/Brussouw!!
12 Sep 2011, 10:39 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-56: I agree
I have always said Adi is being badly treated, and in my eyes still a damn fine player
12 Sep 2011, 10:41 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-32: the loosies are to protect Steyn … the tight 5 must give Spies the platform to run like a gazelle … bullcrap.
12 Sep 2011, 10:41 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-68: I dont think so
he is totally off the pace in all facets of play
12 Sep 2011, 10:42 am
CJ vd Linde is faster than Adi
12 Sep 2011, 10:42 am
RL – I have a feeling the nerves and adrenaline got to the Boks yesterday, so hopefully the Boks can progress from here! We can pull loads of negatives out of this game but there are also huge positives to take as well!!
12 Sep 2011, 10:42 am
FS
JPP
JF
JdJ
GA
BJ
FH
SB
WA
HB
JM
DR
JdP
BdP
GS
BM, JS, (CJvL), GM, FL, RP, MS, (PL)
12 Sep 2011, 10:42 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-17:
true and with so much go forward ball for the welsh I don’t believe their is a player on the planet that could stop roberts dead.
it’s morne for me as well as bismark.
F.Steyn to 12 and Lambie to 15.
Hougie replaces Habana and Habs drops out of the 22.
Aplon or Pienaar on the bench with James.
Spies to the bench.Alberts to start.
With Smit on the bench we need to carry only one prop on it and can get Louw onto the bench as I believe we definately need another fetcher in case brussow gets injured.
To me that gives a far more dynamic starting 15 as well as bench.
12 Sep 2011, 10:44 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-68:
Boet it could also be said that he had an off day. Who knows.
12 Sep 2011, 10:44 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-69: 100%
you cant hunt alone
infact if i was the bok coach, i would have selected a very different loose trio , even different to what i selected in my team
8 alberts
7 flouw
6 brussow
hell thats 3 fetchers in the team , they could cause havock
12 Sep 2011, 10:45 am
@President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-71:
Yeah and its a fckin travesty that he has to play behind Terblanche, Joubert etc first the excuse was that Terblanche was cappie-NOW WHAT? Adi was one of the only playrs who did ok vs AB’s in Wellington in this years 3N.
I get more pleasure watching the u21′s play because they actually pick on merit and look to PLAY rugby.Sean Everitt(my old Phys Ed teacher at DPHS) is doing an AWESOME job with them.Deserves higher honours.They tore the Valke apart and never let up-it was the Mthembu/Jafta/Jordaan show all day. Was most impressed by Siseko Jafta-19 years old….Wow
12 Sep 2011, 10:45 am
27 RIP,
Its not ideal to interchange players in the middle of a game. You weaken 1 position all the time.
If Morne was meant to be a full back, he would have been.
12 Sep 2011, 10:46 am
@24_years_new_zeeland_looking_for_web_ellis_where_the_f_is_web_ellis(p0ppa69)-74:
And Adi is faster than Frans Steyn
12 Sep 2011, 10:46 am
@President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-79: the 3 fetchers i refer to bei9ng
Brussow
Flouw
Bissy
12 Sep 2011, 10:47 am
Brigadier Van Zyl – I dont agree with starting Alberts. As you need some to come on and lift the game to surpise the opposition and that is exactly what happened. Alberts is a supreme supersub. Goodpoint o J Smit and get hopefully get Flo into the 22.
I flippin hope Habas can find some form against Fiji, maybe a confidence thing for him!!
12 Sep 2011, 10:47 am
@President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-79: add Bissie, you got 4. awesome
12 Sep 2011, 10:47 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-46: I’m with you on this one.
12 Sep 2011, 10:47 am
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-50:
de jong is not an option on the bench…doesn’t offer the same options that aplon or pienaar can.
12 Sep 2011, 10:48 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-80: yeah those 3 plus Lindeque for me had great games
12 Sep 2011, 10:48 am
F du Preez was shocking.
It is a crime to keep him in the team when someone like Hougaard is waiting in the wings.
At the vefry least, Hougaard needs to replace DuP as much as Bissy needs to replace Smit, so treat both subs the same way.
12 Sep 2011, 10:50 am
1-Gurthro
2-Bissy
3-Jannie
4- Alberts
5- Muller cause theres no one else
6- Brussouw
7- Burger
8 Spies
12 Sep 2011, 10:50 am
I’m probably not the first person here to suggest this (couldn’t be bothered to read all the comments), but for me it’s simple:
Replace John with Bismarck
Replace Du Preez with Hougaard
Replace Spies with Alberts
Move F Steyn to 12
Start Aplon at the back
Leave Morne where he is
Oh, and teach Jannie how to tackle, Muller how to clear a ruck, Burger how to run into someone without leading with his arse, Danie how to hang onto the ball, Morne how to kick the ball out and all our backs how to position themselves to actually catch the frikkin high ball.
Then we should be good to go.
12 Sep 2011, 10:51 am
The tight 5 was an embarrassment was our tight 5. Even Bismarck when he came on. They simply didn’t do their job!! They were never at the breakdowns!
Even if you overlook the fact that Brussow made half the tackles, he was always cleaning up at the breakdowns! That’s not his job, but our forwards were invisible! Even the two steal Bismarck made, go watch who had to clean out the opposition to make it possible! It should have been the other way around.
Yes, the ref had a very strange way of blowing the breakdowns, because the Welsh stormed and fell over the breakdowns almost at every ruck, but the boks should have been better.
And… was Habana on the field?
12 Sep 2011, 10:52 am
We are exiting a phase in SA rugby at the moment.
See how the GREAT Bulls team of the last few years, is imploding.
Bulls lagging in CC
Bakkies injured.
Vic injured
F D Preez has a shocker
Morne is suddenly not the great white hope at 10 anymore
Spies disappears
Meisiekind is out of form, so too Kirchner and a few other Bulls
All this is affecting our RWC. If we lose it is because this RWC came one year too late.
An era is coming to an end… is it going down in a blaze of RWC glory or in a whimper?
12 Sep 2011, 10:52 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-87:
Don’t understand what you mean. If de Jongh is on the bench and Frans Steyn gets injured, then Lambie moves to the back and you have a specialised centre coming in. If Lambie or Fourie gets injured then JdJ can slot in his normal positions. If the wings get injured Fourie can move on out.
12 Sep 2011, 10:52 am
Drop Pietersen and Habana for Hougaard and Aplon
Drop Smit and Burger for Bismark and Alberts.
Get Bakkies, Matfield and De Villiers back for the quarters.
That’s the only changes required.
12 Sep 2011, 10:53 am
@32,
I thought that Priestland was very good, as was the rest of the Welsh back line. I think that this Welsh team will in 2-3 years, be the dominating team in the NH. They are young now, and need some time together (Like the Wallabies 2-3 years ago when Cooper etc was found)
I think that Keo hit the nail on the head. For all intense purposes, the Welsh should have won. They beat us in possession, territory, penalties etc etc. They are just green, and do not know how to close out a game. We can say what we want, but calm heads and direction won us that game at 17-16 with 13 minutes to go. When FDP started dictating what was going to happen, the players listened and followed. You only get that through experience, and the babies in the Welsh team will lear that in the next few years.
I expect them to be a very serious outfit in 3 years time.
ANY I HATE MIKE PHILLIPS
12 Sep 2011, 10:53 am
Alberst is hard , we need a hard lock. Danie does’nt want to get involved
Alberst ‘s controll at back of scrum suspect , we were lucky to get penalty, but for rest he was Gold
12 Sep 2011, 10:53 am
One of the guys that was totally useless was Beast. Twice in the first couple of minutes he got mauled of the ball at a ruck. That was our single biggest problem. Guthro, Bakkies and Juan Smith not being there in the first 60 minutes to support Brussow at the rucks. In the last 20 Bismark and Alberts took over that job.
I would therefore definitely bring in Guthro as it will also strenghten our scrum, and then I like the impact the bench makes. If Bakkies could start, then Rossouw will make an even better impact.
12 Sep 2011, 10:54 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-95: and Peire “the Gate” Spies?
12 Sep 2011, 10:54 am
@Helen(Helen)-89: I always knew that FDP was kak with a few blinders to sell the hype.. Hougaardt is however useless at 9. He is a wing. A damn good wing who is almost as good as Aplon.
Hows the period cramps today
12 Sep 2011, 10:54 am
Lucky for us, the Boks have a very different history.
We don’t KILL the weaker teams like the kiwis do
but we also win games we should’t.
That bodes well for play offs. We must just get through the pool stage with 4 victories and then all bets are off
12 Sep 2011, 10:55 am
in your dreams marsupalami
12 Sep 2011, 10:56 am
@Helen(Helen)-93: utter rubbish!
12 Sep 2011, 10:56 am
Coaching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Coaching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Coaching!!!!!!!!!!!
imo – is hierdie vis se kop vrot.
12 Sep 2011, 10:57 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-84:
tough one to call really…so long as our front 5 is pap we will be better off with alberts who is almost an extra tight forward. If the 5 can get some decent go forward then it is spies for me.
12 Sep 2011, 10:58 am
@Helen(Helen)-93: So all era’s come to end , there are quite a few youngsters coming through though.
The country is short on locks , and number 3 ‘s
Oosthuizen of FS is making change to number 3 quite well
Host of loosies
12 Sep 2011, 10:58 am
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-100:
Not so sure we can definitively say that Hougie is a wing.
He needs to be closer to the action to have a bigger impact.
His passes are not as long as FDP’s and his kicking game is limited, but in the last 30mins fewer long passes are required and the kicking game becomes less of a necessity.
Cramps are ok, but after the nerves of the weekend, I’m bleeding like Maori with a can opener
12 Sep 2011, 10:58 am
@Bouts(Bouts)-92: A number of penalties against us at the breakdown was from the backs being overeager… but again, they weren’t supposed to be doing that job!
Yes, the defense was better, but it was because all the forwards were standing in the backline. The opposition won’t get through 12 players standing in a row, but that’s the reason we never had the ball! Fine, we have the Stormers defense coaches who probably preaches this, but as we’ve seen in the S15, it didn’t work against the top teams, because defense isn’t everything. You actually have to have the ball to outscore the opposition.
12 Sep 2011, 10:58 am
@Tacticus 95: Drop Burger. Is jy mal! Hy was fenominaal, my speler van die wedstryd. Enigste ou wat bietjie geclean het by die rucks, terwyl ons voorry net rondgestaan het daar.
12 Sep 2011, 10:58 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-80: a bit of deja vu
Wales 31 South Africa 34: match report
Wales and South Africa at the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, on Saturday June 5 2010.
By Paul Ackford
Published: 5:02PM BST 05 Jun 2010
A calamitous day for Wales, for so many reasons. First, they came into the game in the best of fettles. Cardiff and the Ospreys, the providers of the bulk of the national side, had won titles in recent weeks, suggesting that confidence and form would be good.
Next, at home, in a jam-packed Millennium Stadium, they were facing a Springbok outfit which was not much better than scratch, lacking most of their star men who were involved in last weekend’s Super 14 final. This narrative should have been all about Wales storming to what would have been only their second victory against South Africa.
So what did Wales do? They blew it. There is no other word for it. After a start which screamed composure, a quality which was conspicuous by its absence during the Six Nations, Wales raced away to an impressive 16-3 lead after 21 minutes with rugby which was forceful, virtually error free, and a delight.
And then? Then Wales showed why they are miles away from being a force in world rugby by allowing the Boks back into the match with such a display of generosity that in the space of the next 40 minutes South Africa scored 28 points while Wales managed a paltry three. You could not have a better illustration of how to lose control of a game. From pomp to poop, it was a study of Welsh decline.
Of course, you can look at this another way and congratulate South Africa for a major recovery but, frankly, the Boks were a right old mess for much of the match.
If it was not for Danie Rossouw and Joe van Niekerk up front, two of the more recognisable names in the Bok selection, and Jaque Fourie, Ruan Pienaar and Ricky Januarie in the backs, Wales might have secured an unlikely victory.
It was that quintet which held South Africa together when Wales were raging. In the middle of the game centre Juan de Jongh and flanker Dewald Potgieter grew in influence, but it will be a major shock if much of this Springbok side is not discarded by the time the Boks get to the Tri-Nations.
The big surprise for South Africa was the attitude and execution of their captain, John Smit, which were both lousy. To me, Smit has looked neither fit nor at ease since he has bounced between hooker and prop, and he was blowing hard yesterday very early on. Yet puff was not the main issue.
Smit presented James Hook with the easiest of tries when he found himself in the middle of the Boks backline after South Africa had turned over Welsh possession.
Instead of shuffling into the nearest defender as most self-respecting tight forwards tend to do, Smit shaped to kick, stopped, thought about it, and then rifled a pass into the waiting hands of Hook, who cantered over for the try.
12 Sep 2011, 10:59 am
huh?
12 Sep 2011, 10:59 am
Keo, as much as I agree about that Bissie needs inclusion and Morne is a defensive liability. I think you should add Bryan Habana to your list
I thought, after looking at the game for the third time, that:
- We made a lot of unneeded mistakes in the game which transferred the pressure onto us, especially 1st half – knock on’s, bad clearing kicks, bad passes, out throws. This created the 1st 3 penalty opportunities for Wales
- Our much vaunted kick and chase game was terrible, with only one kick causing Wales any problems, Wales caught very well and Wales kicked and chased much better than us
- Our defensive allowed Wales to run at us way too much. Tackling technique was terrible and way to high. Jacques Fourie for all his good work runs up too much and creates gaps, like the one for their try, while Morne cannot be relied on to make any 1st time tackles. Overall our defense looks disjointed and uncoordinated
- The breakdown was a mess and the concept of entering through the gate, tackler releasing was not reffed and it was as badly handled as a 6N game.
- Overall the boks looked flat, tired and without a clue after 30 mins into the game
12 Sep 2011, 10:59 am
@Horings(Horings)-98:
Beast’s problem has always been that he lacks pure aggression. Without your mind in the game (read Plonker Pietersen) you might as well not be there.
12 Sep 2011, 10:59 am
@capebull(capebull)-106:
Not saying there is not a another era starting, but this particular one that took us to 3 x S15 titles, a RWC winners medal and victory against the Lions, is coming to an end. Let’s hope it ends with a fairy tale
12 Sep 2011, 11:00 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-62:
Listen you dumb fck Smit worshiping guppieyuppie miserable Fckng Moron., you were one Smitty arsewipe clone here that are too afraid to open your useless hazy blue eyes… You the fckass fool that know sweet fanny fckall about rugby so stop making your useless aryan inadequacies everyone else’s problem Fckng moronic imbecile idiot supreme
12 Sep 2011, 11:01 am
After the World Cup:
15.) Frans Steyn
14.) JP Pietersen
13.) Johann Sadie
12.) Juan de Jongh
11.) JJ Engelbrecht
10.) Elton Jantjies
9.) Francois Hougaard
8.) Willem Alberts
7.) Juan Smith (C)
6.) Heinrich Brussouw
5.) Andries Bekker
4.) Juandre Kruger
3.) Jannie du Plessis
2.) Bismarck du Plessis
1.) Beast Mtwaria
12 Sep 2011, 11:02 am
@RL(RL)-49: Plod messed up 2, but he played for 50 minutes. Biz messed up 3 and he played 30 minutes. See? But the bigger picture is that the Welsh took FIVE lineouts off the Bok throw-in. Wasn’t the lineout something the Boks rather fancied they’re quite good at? And Wales aren’t generally feared as being especially brilliant at lineouts, are they?
12 Sep 2011, 11:02 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-115: eish… slow down man/woman……
12 Sep 2011, 11:02 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-115:
I lost you at Listen…
12 Sep 2011, 11:02 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-95: drop burger…why? he got through mountains of work. If anything spies should go for Alberts.
12 Sep 2011, 11:03 am
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-116:
Lambie???????????
12 Sep 2011, 11:04 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-117:
more becaquse of our jumpers than our throwers I think
12 Sep 2011, 11:04 am
@Helen(Helen)-114: Hope they have enough in their legs
12 Sep 2011, 11:04 am
oh….and I also see that keo rated Wayne Barnes highly?
yes, he is articulate…but he is also frikken blind.
There is no way on earth that that last penalty that wales got and missed….was ever a penalty for wales.
where was the tackler release. didn’t we read all week that the refs were going to clamp down on this sort of thing. Brussow can just go back to the way he was playing 2 years ago and ride the tackle.
It was obvious to me that the welsh benifitted from having had Wayne Barnes more often than the boks.
12 Sep 2011, 11:04 am
Asha,
YOu make better points if you use rugby knowledge to make a point, not profanity.
People stop listening/reading your posts
12 Sep 2011, 11:05 am
@Boom15(Boom15)-120:
Agree, Burger worked like a bankrupt coal miner.
12 Sep 2011, 11:05 am
Beast or mouse?
And what is keeping Jannie in the team, actually?
12 Sep 2011, 11:05 am
@SHARKattack(mabu)-99: Tac is in love with Spies, he will never say the words “drop Spies” … fact is Spies is a girl with zero physicality, zero aggression and zero talent … who was that convict that called him out last year, called him soft and larfed at him before a match … him embarrassing.
12 Sep 2011, 11:07 am
@Helen(Helen)-107: The boy loses confidence quickly. Very fragile Psyche..It only takes one fkup and he goes MIA. Start him at scumhalf at your peril
12 Sep 2011, 11:07 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-115:
“Fckng moronic imbecile idiot supreme”
Are you saying that Great White Shark is not very intelligent?
12 Sep 2011, 11:07 am
Beast was dissapointing , play Gurthro him with Bizzy got stuck into Welsh
12 Sep 2011, 11:07 am
Burger is everywhere, but what does he really achieve? Smashes into the opposition repeatedly but goes down pretty much on the advantage line.
Alberts in contrast goes OVER the advantage line. Burger does a pretty bouncing headclash, but is it really effective.
I don’t understand why he was the receiver and first phase runner so often, because he simply doesn’t get go forward. There is a nice, spectacular bouncing of bodies and a mop of hair flying in all directions, but the end result is a ball that is recycled pretty much where we started.
Only Bismark and Alberts gets us OVER the advantage line. And therefore you want Spies running off one of them, rather than Burger.
Simple, really.
12 Sep 2011, 11:08 am
axe morne?
oh boy…here we go again….
12 Sep 2011, 11:08 am
SO much for the benefit provided by Smit’s experience and captaincy. If anything it was brut force that got us over the line after the bench. Calm heads came from the entire team not 1 captain
12 Sep 2011, 11:09 am
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-129:
I won’t start him just yet.
He’s never let the Boks down, ever.
I think has the confidence to start for the boks, but just to not mess with team dynamic (not sure how much pull Vic FDP, etc have in team) I’d keep him on the bench or use him on wing.
Keeping in mind that most, if not all, of his magic moment have come from broken play, he is better suited for a looser game.
12 Sep 2011, 11:10 am
Burger is another one of these hail hero worshiped F’ng hero’s that got these monumental Fckd in the head hero worshippers bamboozled beyond reason.., he does very little constructive ball carrying in a game of 80 minutes he hardly breaks through any barricades of defense ala Bismark or Alberts and there are better ball carrying and ground ball playing flanks around, Louw being one, who would suit the trio, however he is still better than Spies in very respect. Burger offers kamikazi tackling in open play but that’s about where his value ends, as a ball carrier or a ground ball or breakdown specialist he’s pretty innocuous and obsolete. And soon as you slap rhetorical captaincy on him then he seriously goes to absolute pieces, as if afkophoender wasn’t sufficient a title before he got the added responsibility to seriously chuck him WAY off course.
12 Sep 2011, 11:10 am
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-53: yup.
@capebull(capebull)-54: sorry mate, alberts didnt struggle whilst spies was invisible.
kanko never got an extended chance, he was consistently stuffed around for spies. what a waste of four years.
12 Sep 2011, 11:10 am
Spies still the biggest pansie in the world. Playing against a 4 test newbie, got outplyayed and monstered.
Actually embarassed for him, he never dominates any facet of no 8 play. Ever.
Doesnt dominate the tackle, or with ball in hand or as a link man. I really though he would do alright with Burger working so hard and the only player in the pack actually making metres.
As for M Steyn…all the Welsh forward momentum came as a direct result of his complete inability to hold his his channel. Also embarrasing.
Drop Smit, Spies, M Steyn and Habanna for Biz, Alberts, Butch and Houg.
12 Sep 2011, 11:10 am
@Helen(Helen)-130:
Timotei shampoo repeats the same boooring ‘insults’ ad nauseum to everyone….he/she is like a harmless big green fly that one casually flicks away from time to time.
12 Sep 2011, 11:11 am
Fark Spies or Parisse or any of the other Dandies. This is who I would like as my Bok no 8.
See him in action soon at RWC for Georgia… I give you Gorgodzilla:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3muchC9D2YU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXCDKjhZnE0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-eGOBlRoG8&feature=related
HELLYEAH!!!
12 Sep 2011, 11:12 am
Just imagine the following players fit and playing:
Juan Smith
Andries Bekker
Bakkies Botha
Vic
Half our concerns will evaporate if these guys were fit
12 Sep 2011, 11:13 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-117: you ate pathetic, of the 11 Bok lineouts 2 were lost … you moronic doos.
12 Sep 2011, 11:13 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-136:
Strangely enough the genuine rugby students of the game and overseas columnists rate Burger highly…which means you are talking through the hole in your head.
Boooooooooring.
12 Sep 2011, 11:13 am
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-94:
but dejong is limited a player as olivier ever was. Has dejong ever passed the ball?
12 Sep 2011, 11:14 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-136:
really dumb post.
Hope you feel better soon!
12 Sep 2011, 11:15 am
Say no to shampoo.
Insist on real poo.
12 Sep 2011, 11:16 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-136: also took Steenkamp minimum 1 game to fire on all cylinders. Everyone’s not like H. Br.
12 Sep 2011, 11:16 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-132: “Burger is everywhere, but what does he really achieve?
Smashes into the opposition repeatedly but goes down pretty much on the advantage line.”
Now tell us what Spies does/did
12 Sep 2011, 11:16 am
I notice that beast is getting away lightly for having his worst test ever…strange?
12 Sep 2011, 11:17 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-132: ok but you are assuming bissie and Alberts will offload in the tackle, and can we say that really happens ? The truth is that our game is based around defense as we are unable to put multiple phases together- we are going to be without the ball for long periods, and I for one would rather have burger defending than spies. We are also not playing at loftus, or in aus where the fields are harder and more condusive to Spies. bissie and Alberts are musts for their respective ball carrying abilities, but burger over spies anyday.
12 Sep 2011, 11:17 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-132:
Burger
FdP
JS
Spies
Habana
All suffer from the same disease its called hero worshiptinitis or jakewhiteblueeyedfckingidiocy
Problem is NONE of them are effective but still everyone’s go to man for every occasion
12 Sep 2011, 11:18 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-149:
Everyone forgot he was in the game…
12 Sep 2011, 11:18 am
@bokgat1(bokgat1)-134: the “AURA” still works from the bench.
12 Sep 2011, 11:19 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-151:
White is right.
12 Sep 2011, 11:19 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-143: Keo is a columnist and supposedly a rugby student along with his other slaves… and look how kak they are predicting/rating/analysing any thing.. unless Foreign makes others better.. in which case take my opinion as being better then. I think that burger as too little brains to be effective
Remember: My opinion counts. I live in the UK
12 Sep 2011, 11:20 am
Spies is a waste of place, to think SA have a talent like Alberts on the bench. If anything Spies should be coming on for Alberts late in games, not the other way around. Burger was pretty good for his first game back, about the only consistent ball-carrier the Boks had until Alberts/Bismarck came on.
12 Sep 2011, 11:20 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-137: I said Alberts battled with his controll of the ball in scrums , the rest he was great.
His impact was more than that of Spies , but he played with Bizzy and Muller and Gurthro and their impact was also much more than Vic,Smit and Beast
12 Sep 2011, 11:21 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-151: Burger and FdP not “effective”?
Come now.
12 Sep 2011, 11:21 am
How good is our reserve hooker………and how kak is our 8th-man ?????
12 Sep 2011, 11:21 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-140: I just watched one of the clips. Damn!!! That guy is a Monster!
12 Sep 2011, 11:22 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-156: I reckon Burger made 2m on gain line the whole match.
Bizzy made at least 30m
12 Sep 2011, 11:22 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-138:
so long as our front 5 have off days I don’t see our 8 having as much impact.
remember that alberts came on with bismark and guthro who both had huge impact at the collisions.
Alberts is basically an extra tight forward so probably a better bet to start so long as our front starting 5 aren’t doing their work properly.
Butch would have got carded trying to recklessly coat hanger Roberts on the crash ball. I don’t believe any single player would have stopped Roberts dead yesterday. In fact, I bet you see teams gang tackling him in the coming games.
12 Sep 2011, 11:23 am
@Sean(seanbokpool)-159: Our reserve hooker puts in more work, and is more mobile than our 8th man.
Goodness Pierre Spies was utter rubbish yesterday.
12 Sep 2011, 11:23 am
Is it just me or do the Boks look like the most unfit side in the history of the game?
20 mins in and the okes are red lining and huffing an puffing like theyve just run a marathon.
Kitch Christie always said of the 95 WC winners that they definitely weren’t the best side there but they made sure they were the fittest.
I’d like to see this Bok side have to go into extra time and try and win from there.
Heart attack city.
12 Sep 2011, 11:23 am
It’s ludicrous to state that Morne Steyn should be fired from 10. Convincing bok rugby starts in the forwards and ends at no. 10. Without an accurate kicking flyhalf on still ball and out hand then the boks are dead in the water. Morne Steyn was crazy to run the ball, he knows that he stands to deep which applies pressure on jdv and jf, and those two are no SBW, Nonu, Conrad smith, or kahui.
Boks must stick to kick and chase, if not they’ve no chance of defending the cup, never!!!!
12 Sep 2011, 11:24 am
Keo put some stats to support all the emotion around players.
Why did Burger not stop the Welsh centre running onto Morne ?
Surley that channel gets defended by a loosie
12 Sep 2011, 11:24 am
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-155:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just don’t repeat it every five seconds or you’re gonna get abuse.
12 Sep 2011, 11:26 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-164: You’re 100% right. The Boks looked knacked yesterday. Their match was the last one of the weekend and they looked so jet lagged and tired.
12 Sep 2011, 11:26 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-152:
it’s true though isn’t it…with beast playing kak, smit being average, jannie not doing a lot, roussow doing his best and matfield carrying an injury….why the frikken hell is everyone lambasting our 8,9 and 10? The ones who’s games are directly effected by the performance of numbers 1-5?
just frikken stupid really?
12 Sep 2011, 11:27 am
Best players this weekend, rated from best to worse:
1 – F Steyn
2 – F Hougaard
3 – S Burger
4 – J Fourie
5 – J Muller
6 – D Russouw
7 – B du Plessis
8 – B Habana
9 – W Alberts
10 – M Steyn
11 – J Smit
12 – J d Plessis
13 – P Spies
14 – J de Villiers
15 – JPP
16 – Beast
17 – Butch
18 – FDP
12 Sep 2011, 11:27 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-162: That is something none of these guys understand.
If Burger defended like atrojan why did he not stop Robberts, where was Butch ? Robberst was his opponent
12 Sep 2011, 11:27 am
@Helen(Helen)-170:
sorry, and Brussouw fits in at a solid 8
12 Sep 2011, 11:28 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-167: Fairplay… watch yourself now
12 Sep 2011, 11:28 am
@Helen(Helen)-170: Steyn messed up right on our goal line
12 Sep 2011, 11:29 am
I agree on Spies not having a good game, but you are all forgetting one crucial facet of play (where Spies is actually very good): LINEOUTS. How do you guys think will we get ball from the back of the lineout if Burger, Alberts and Brussow is the combination. Especially if Matfield is not there. I would definitely have started with Burger/ Alberts, Smith and Brussow if Smith was available, but you have to have either Spies or Smith or Rossouw in you loose trio combination. Another one I would have looked at is Elstadt at 7, but this is for the future.
12 Sep 2011, 11:29 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-169:
FDP didn’t struggle in set phases. It was in broken play that he was terrible! That is hardly something you can blame the tight 5 for
12 Sep 2011, 11:29 am
Bissy 1
Hougie 2
Grthro 3
Alberts 4
Rest was not good
12 Sep 2011, 11:29 am
And there you go again Keo, focusing on Morne. If Morne played for Wales they would have won the game!
In the first few minutes the Bok forwards where clinical and dominant and Morne got his backline going with a strong and easy try by Frans. Thereafter the forwards where thoroughly outplayed and how any one who understand the game can single out Morne for the pathetic struggle is beyond me.
During the last few years the `picture in my mind` of Captain John Smit is a player missing tackles gasping for air and in almost every super 14 / 15 and test game that he captained, he left the field with his team behind on points where the vice-captain and bench players had to `pull the game out of defeat`.
Sunday’s game was again no different than what has become so evident. The Bokke are badly coached and our Springbok Captain has become and embarrassment.
Dawie De Villiers was one of the best Captains SA had winning the home series against New Zealand in 1970. John Smit was one of the best Captains SA had up to about 2009. He will be remembered for that!
12 Sep 2011, 11:29 am
Habanna at 8 and Bizmark at 7? Which game were you watching.
Spies and Morne above Butch?
Worst rating ever.
12 Sep 2011, 11:29 am
John Galt: I agree with you, the guys seem to not be in great physical shape. John Mitchell mentioned the same thing last night.
12 Sep 2011, 11:30 am
testing?
12 Sep 2011, 11:30 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-148:
12 Sep 2011, 11:30 am
Do yourselve a favour…
compare the 2007 form to the 2011 form…
Steyn – gone backwards….
Habs – ya well no fine, he is now just a ordinary wing… very ordinary…..
JdV – he has gone slowpo….
Mossie – he has gone average…
Petersen – does he still want to play?
FdP – he is now on current form a liability
Barney – a shaddo (all be it a big one) of the players he was then.
Vic – imo same form player he was.
Bakkies – father time caught up top him as well.
Schalla – he has gone average…
Danie – ya well i think i said enough about him…
and we still think we can win this tourny?
12 Sep 2011, 11:31 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-160: This is the best clip: All the other clips contained in this one.
Got to laugh – its hosted by the Georgian Rugby Union – they’ve included his fights!
Anyway outtahere.
12 Sep 2011, 11:31 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-156:
Good post.
Agree. Spies should be on bench and play last 30 mins.
12 Sep 2011, 11:31 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-184: forgot the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBPe-QvwD7g
12 Sep 2011, 11:32 am
shaddow
12 Sep 2011, 11:32 am
WTFF. I’ve posted the same comment thrice now, and it has simply failed to appear. Who is running this show? Sort it out.
12 Sep 2011, 11:35 am
wtf helen …
Habana was rubbish! and Danie missed like 10 tackles! also Muller above Bissie? and John Smith so high? did you nagmaal before the game?
12 Sep 2011, 11:35 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-140: Looks dangerous. Shame he’s not in Pool C against the ponses. Enland may have to do. Thanks for that!
12 Sep 2011, 11:36 am
@Helen(Helen)-176: can not agree with you our worst part was rucks and mauls , we did not defend any of those , if you don’t dominate those , you take out your scrummy and the loosies.
Brussouw had 1 turn over , Burger 0 the whole game
12 Sep 2011, 11:36 am
@Helen(Helen)-170: Frans Steyn at 1?? I would have Brussouw at one but then again FS gets rated on a different scale.. Scoring low on the Fkup scale is not the same as scoring high on the performance scale but it is linked to the improvement scale.
I give Frans Steyn 3/10 on the fkup scale and 6/10 on the improvement scale
On general performance, I would give him a 5/10 with 7/10 being the best bok performance.
12 Sep 2011, 11:37 am
@Staal(Staal)-187: there are a few younsters coming through for the next time
12 Sep 2011, 11:38 am
I wonder if Helen still thinks that Spies is gods gift to rugby and the perfect 8th man …
I am having a good laugh …
12 Sep 2011, 11:39 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-169:
It’s idiotskies like Timotei shampoo that think thay have a clue and claim to know exactly which solitary player is wholly responsible for bringing down ALL fifteen players, that soil this blog with their uninformed rugby ignorance.
Brussouw spent the entire game defending when he should have been competing. Why? Well because our forwards are going backwards and missing tackles. Burger was influencial and even Jannie had an impact in the scrum. His opposite number was not having a grat day at the office.
Matfield should not have played at all as he was clearly carrying an injury. The affirmative coach just does not have the foresight to see that some his replacements are better than most of the first choice players.
12 Sep 2011, 11:39 am
Can’t argue with what you guys are saying.
If I give it some more thought, I’d possible change my ratings a bit.
Steyn deserves top honours for what he did in the first 19 minutes. Unbelievable!
Those first few minutes was the way we can play. Even if we have 3 or 4 such periods in the game and then defend like demons, we’ll be good enough.
12 Sep 2011, 11:40 am
JPP decided on Saturday that he was going to cruise along with the rest of the C unts in the team. It seemingly improves your longevity, bearing in mind that Smit is Captain and role model
12 Sep 2011, 11:40 am
@dr dre(dr dre)-194: Forget spies we all agreed was was’nt good.
Tell me why did we only get 1 turnover the whole game ?
12 Sep 2011, 11:40 am
one point: the article mentioned how if Wales had got their drop goal or penatly over, the mood would be different… is this not THE reason to keep Morne Steyn in the team? i’m not his biggest fan by any stretch, but that just highlighted the need for a reliable kicker in this tournament.
12 Sep 2011, 11:40 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-119:
12 Sep 2011, 11:40 am
Let’s try that missing post one more time:
I must agree with Tac here. For all his effort, Burger was pretty ineffective. I’m not advocating we drop him, but I certainly think his post match reports blow smoke up his arse.
He always takes contact the same way – by turning around and backing into the tackler. Not only does this deprive him of all his speed and momentum, resulting in zero gainline crossing, it also makes him look like he’s stupidly trying to spin out of tackles in super slo-mo.
Why does he do this?
12 Sep 2011, 11:43 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-195:
Great White, Brussouw was defending (22 tackles) and couldn’t make the turnovers. Exactly my point. The fetching role should rather be the 8th man’s duty. Open side flank is usually the first to the tackle, so it out of the game when on the ground. I really would swap Spies and Brussouw and let them both play to the ball instead of Brussouw making tackles and Spies roaming like a dump truck looking for parking
12 Sep 2011, 11:43 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-195: Now we are getting somewhere. Our T5 got outplayed if they did their job the loosies would have done something . The T 5 started playing with Bizzy, Muller and Gurthro cleaning rucks.
Smit, Danie , Beast biggest culprits
12 Sep 2011, 11:43 am
@capebull(capebull)-198: Easy. Wales were committed at the breakdown/rucks.
More organised than we were. Spies is useless at a breakdown.
12 Sep 2011, 11:45 am
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-165: shut up!
you want nonu & sbw to run straight at morne all night long if we ever meet in a semi-final neh?
fark, i don’t know who is more of a turnstile morne or meyer bosman?
nah, meyer is uber KAK
12 Sep 2011, 11:45 am
Hmmmm…. I am not sure I agree with these negative assessments on Burger.
He was incredibly hard working throughout the match. Yes, he is not the most intelligent runner / offloader of the ball and nowadays he struggles to break tackles, but boy he works hard.
Is it just me or does he look smaller at this world cup compared to other players?
12 Sep 2011, 11:45 am
We need a T5 that dominates.
Look whow Cheeters front row cleaned rucks
12 Sep 2011, 11:45 am
Play Morne at fullback and put Steyn at flyhalf, problem solved!
12 Sep 2011, 11:46 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-186: No doubt this guy must be the toughest guy in rugby today. Mamuka Gorgodze. I’m going to be looking out for him when Georgia play their game.
12 Sep 2011, 11:46 am
yada yada yada….
ek wil dit nog altyd gesê het!
12 Sep 2011, 11:47 am
@dr dre(dr dre)-204: Its not the number 8 Job to clean thr rucks.
12 Sep 2011, 11:47 am
Most kickers are missing their kicks and Morne was spot on. That’s all that matters.
There aren’t many Jamie Roberts at this world cup. Jami did this in 09 with the Lions and we still beat the Lions.
Am not too worried about Morne’s defensive frailties so to speak.
Quade has defensive problems but has the ability to generate more points than he concedes. This line of reasoning applies to Morne Steyn’s case. They are no different in points accumulation.
12 Sep 2011, 11:47 am
@byron458(byron458)-208: Do you remember the last time Morne Steyn was at fullback, in NZ during this year’s trinations? It was a disaster! Not a good plan.
12 Sep 2011, 11:49 am
@byron458(byron458)-208:
ja, just imagine a bacline of 9 – Hougaard, 10 – F Steyn, 12 – Butch/de Jongh, 13 – Fourie…
pretty devastating, eh?
12 Sep 2011, 11:51 am
The Boks took a line out when they were 6 points down with 20 minutes to go. I really appreciated that.
John Smit and Victor Matfield would have gone for points but whoever took the decision on the field made a very good one. I’m sure the Welsh were surprised by the decision. That decision was more important than Wayne Barnes’s decision.
12 Sep 2011, 11:51 am
@Helen(Helen)-196: Hate to say this, but good enough to be the kiwis or the aussies? Sadly, not sure I agree.
12 Sep 2011, 11:51 am
@Helen(Helen)-214: Steyn tried at 10 years ago did not make it . Jantjies best in SA at moment
12 Sep 2011, 11:52 am
@Helen(Helen)-214: Do you guys not recall in 2008 Barbarians game when Frans Steyn played fly half? It was a disaster.
12 Sep 2011, 11:52 am
Fourie du Preez was the poorest of the team on Sunday. They should let Hougaard start.
Morne and JPP need to improve their tackling.
12 Sep 2011, 11:53 am
@madvillain(madvillain)-212: it wasn’t only jamie running through morne…that tongan-born welsh 8 went past him like the gautrain!
radike samo would KILL morne!
12 Sep 2011, 11:54 am
@capebull(capebull)-217: He has stepped up but there is a big difference between CC without the Boks and WC, Elton would struggle at international level.
12 Sep 2011, 11:55 am
@capebull(capebull)-217:
I have 2 words for you:
Lambie!!!!!
12 Sep 2011, 11:56 am
@Helen(Helen)-214: FSteyn at 10 is rubbish, he was SOOOOOO selfish! he grubbered for himself and died with the ball all day.
the commentator in exasperation said something like “if i was this boy’s coach i would tell him never to kick a drop goal ever again” this was after fransie’s 3rd or 4th errant attempt
12 Sep 2011, 11:57 am
No Bakkies, Bismarck, Juan Smith and Dries Bekker in the starting line up.
Pierre Spies… need i say more. This guy disappears with such regularity i don’t even have words for his performance or lack thereof.
12 Sep 2011, 11:58 am
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-221: Agreed , so at WC its Morne/ Butch
Not like tackle vs No arms tackle
Kick all kicks vs Miss kicks
Not lickely to get card vs 70% chance of yellow card
I have not seen a perfect of any thing , if you know Morne does not like tackling , tell Bugger to help him…. simple
12 Sep 2011, 11:58 am
@capebull(capebull)-217: that gap jantjies took to set up hollenbach’s (i think it was) try was sublime.
12 Sep 2011, 11:59 am
We have no shotage of 10′s in SA after the RWC. I’d rate our best to be:
1 – Lambie
2 – F Steyn
3 – E Jantjies
4 – M Steyn
5 – P Grant
6 – Ebersohn
7 – B Francis
For RWC however, we need M Steyn’s conservative consistency.
12 Sep 2011, 11:59 am
Transie: lol! Chap the boks don’t have a running game, they are most convincing when they are mauling opposing forwards, drop garryowens like the Luftwaffe on London! Without an accurate goal kicker than there’s no hope. There’s no plan B, you’ll have to stomach Morne Steyn’s edginess in the tackle situation unfortunately, or do as the Aussies have done move frans Steyn to 10 on defense.
12 Sep 2011, 11:59 am
Key facts and figures from match eight of Rugby World Cup 2011 on Sunday, 11 September; South Africa beat Wales 17-16 in Pool D at Wellington Regional Stadium:
- Toby Faletau (20 years 303 days old) is the youngest player to score a RWC try for Wales, breaking Gareth Thomas’ record by three days.
- Wales captain Sam Warburton is the youngest player to captain a World Cup side at 22 years and 341 days, smashing the record (23 years and 313 days) set by Takamichi Sasaki (JPN) in 2007.
- George North (WAL) at 19 years and 151 days is the fifth youngest player in RWC history and the youngest player to represent Wales at the Rugby World Cup, beating Dai Young’s record by 167 days.
- Frans Steyn’s third-minute try is the quickest of RWC 2011.
- James Hook’s penalty brought up Wales’ 700th RWC point. They are the seventh nation to reach that milestone.
- This is the first RWC match decided by one point since Australia beat Ireland 17-16 in the pool stage of RWC 2003.
- This is South Africa’s narrowest RWC win ever and their first one-point win since beating New Zealand 21-20 in September 2006.
- South Africa’s 815 caps among their starting XV makes them the most capped line-up in rugby history. It is the first time the Springboks have won a Test in which their starting XV boasted 700 caps or more.
12 Sep 2011, 11:59 am
@foreverrugga(foreverrugga)-221: Selective amnesia.. he played super rugby too.. Twatism however destroys brain cells so your lack of memory is understandable
12 Sep 2011, 12:00 pm
@Helen(Helen)-222: I would pick him yes , if the boks T5 get outplayed like they did in Aus recently , even Lambie could not save them
12 Sep 2011, 12:01 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-220: I would love to see either a Samoan or Fiji monster disembowel M. Steyn in a chiropractor tackle
12 Sep 2011, 12:01 pm
you can’t judge Jantjies on the CC peformance … its like Vodacom Cup … even that Demitri Knopkierietakkies from WP (UCT) performed good – very low standard!
12 Sep 2011, 12:02 pm
@madvillain(madvillain)-224:
I watched the game again last night and kept my eye only on Spies.
He is quick around the park and gets to the breakdowns mostly 2nd or 3rd, but once there he spends 3 or 4 seconds looking at the ruck before he gets stuck in, by which time the opportunity is lost. He could be much more effective choosing his entry as he runs up and not come to a standstill first. We lose a great cleaning opportunity by letting him be a passanger at ruck time
12 Sep 2011, 12:03 pm
What was all that hot potato throwing the ball back and forth in the welsh dangerzone
Grrrrr
12 Sep 2011, 12:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-220:
Strange that the giant Polynesians in the Chiefs team couldn’t smash through Morne in the S14. In fact, they got monstered 61-17 with Morne at flyhalf.
Ah, but then the Chiefs tight five – De Melmanche and all – got a whipping from the Bulls big boys, which solved that problem immediately.
So the answer is, dominate the tight five of the opposition. The rest will take care of itself.
12 Sep 2011, 12:03 pm
FS must play 12 , his best position ……and a want to say once more , Spies is kak ( like Graham Hick , a flat track bully . He will always be kak in a tight game but then go on and score 4 tries against Namibia …He has no hands , no vision and can’t read agame which is vitral for a 8th-man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12 Sep 2011, 12:04 pm
Ok, so a lot of people say Morne at fullback, with Butch at nr 10, and Frans at nr 12. Then some say Habana on bench and FdP is on his best form. Some also say Schalk was not that good in this game.
My opinion, Schalk, played a great game, especially if you remember that he did not play for the last 8 weeks due to injury. Then I agree that Bismarck was awesome and so was Alberts. Morne only has his kicking boot going for him while JP Pietersen can only do something when he has the ball. Both of them are useless on defence. I mean, where do they get this whole idea of trying to tackle the guy by grabbing his collar. Really? JdV could not really show what he can bring to the plate due to the injury early on in the game.
There is a lot of options to make sure we never see a game like this past Sunday. A few of which would be to play Juan De Jongh at 12, Lambie at 10 (Morne on bench), Aplon to replace JP, Alberts to replace Spies, Flouw on the bench, and Hougaard at 9. Like I said, there are other option as well, but this is one that could work. The problem is that PdV does not see it and wants to win the 2011 RWC with Jake White’s 2007 team. If only PdV starts playing his own team and forgets about the 2007 team things will improve a lot.
And then one major issue I have with SA Rugby lately, what are the forwards doing in the backline. As long as they remain in the backline, we can not do any backline moves and thus we can not score any tries with the backline. Go back to the basics, forwards at the breakdown points with the backline running the ball through the hands. And please teach JP and Morne to tackle. Juan De Jongh can give them a few lessons.
12 Sep 2011, 12:05 pm
Malema guilty of hate speach.
sentenced to 4 years hard labour in Kobus Geldenhuis’ mielie farm
12 Sep 2011, 12:05 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-148: I looked at the game again this morning, Spies and Burger did pretty much the same things, tackled and ran up, with little of no gain
The only guys who made some ground where Willem, Heinrich and Danie. Danie was also quiet good on defense.
12 Sep 2011, 12:07 pm
agree with keo.morne steyn should go.
1.james in at 10
2.hougaard replacing one-trick pony fdp
3.jdj in for injured jdv
4.louw in for burger-running like a crab should not be done at a wc
5.alberts in for spies-spies should be given a healthy dose of time off to explore the sights and sounds of nz
6.steenkamp in for beast
7.bissy to replace smit as a matter of urgency.
8.aplon to replace jpp for the interim-jp’s game suffered playing with sharks has-beens like oupa ,meyer,joubert etc. etc.
make the changes along that lines and the boks will be ok.
12 Sep 2011, 12:07 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-46:
On Kanko’s opportunities vs Spies; i agree with that. Spies has been coasting for the last two years. Coasting, with nothing to show for it.
What i like about Willem Alberts is the fact that he uses every bok opportunity he gets.
Backing Joe van Niekerk would have been better than waiting on Spies to gallop to the try line.
We have been waiting a little over two years to see the Pretoria Stallion but nothing has come of it.
12 Sep 2011, 12:08 pm
Where is jaque fourie
12 Sep 2011, 12:09 pm
I think that the Frans Steyn try won the game for the Boks.. It took a while for Wales to get going after that and the whole game descended into a farce with everybody holding back. Had Wales not been floored so early with that sucker punch, there confidence have been sky high by the 15th minute and there may have been a slaughter
12 Sep 2011, 12:09 pm
I will feel much better if they select this team to start :
1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. JdP
4. Rossouw (Only because Bakkies is injured)
5. Muller (Only because Matfield is injured and there is no other in NZ)
6. Brussouw
7. Alberts
8. Schalk
9. FdP
10. M Steyn
11. Hougaard
12. F Steyn (Ahead of JdJ because of Le Rocket Boot option)
13. Mossie
14. JPP
15. Aplon/Lambie (Undecided)
12 Sep 2011, 12:10 pm
Tac answer! What did spies do
12 Sep 2011, 12:10 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-236: That was the S14, Morne cannot tackle to save his life NOW, not last year or in 2009
The bigger question is what to do about it. If Steyn stays then we need to plug that gap. Jacques rushed up twice on Saturday closing the outside centre and wing space for the Welsh, only problem was that the Welsh did not want to spread it wide and where playing towards Morne every chance they got in the 2nd half.
His defence is a liability currently
12 Sep 2011, 12:10 pm
@madvillain(madvillain)-242: Agree on Big Joe on evidence of Spies in 1st game.
12 Sep 2011, 12:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-220: Hehehe. iGautrain yonke!
12 Sep 2011, 12:12 pm
helen ..damn … if i was the judge i would’ve sent him to Darren Scott and then to Bees Roux
12 Sep 2011, 12:13 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-228: rubbish man! YOU just a couple of weeks back were more moaning at how the all blacks were trying to run like head-less chickens @ aus in brisbane in the 1st half and YOU questioned McCaw’s leadership at not adapting to the SAME forwards orientated game the boks play.
if the All Blacks had been pragmatic EARLY they wouldn’t have lost the game.
12 Sep 2011, 12:13 pm
frans steyn surprised me on saturday.good game.should have worked on his appearance a long time ago.
12 Sep 2011, 12:15 pm
Swapping M Steyn for Butch will be a big mistake – Simple.
Has anyone fathomed yet that the problem in the 10/12 channel is due to poor defensive play by 12… Yes, I’m talking about Donkey De Villiers. Morne Steyn seems to be the scapegoat for the poor play by Donkey… He has been inept for a while but many of you are blinded by this. A much better defensive player is JDJ who proved this in 2010 S14 and in the tests he played in.
But for this WC we have a solution at 12: F Steyn – a player already proven at 12 in a WC final.
12 Sep 2011, 12:16 pm
Criticism of Schalk Burger’s game as ineffective by some bloggers on this site is incomprehensible, given his suicidal physicality and countless tackles – AND this was his first game in 8 weeks.
Smit must go … if the pack is going forward (and they can and will if Bismarck plays fhe whole game) then Spies is actually the man for the job – he really is something else on attack and he’s a better tackler than people are suggesting.
But if the pack is floundering – which it will be if Smit is still there – then Alberts is a much better choice for Number 8.
Lastly – watch JP Pieterson’s lack of tackle effort … half the time he just couldn’t be bothered, which is a pity because he has a good history of delivering some big hits. He should be told he is playing for his place now and let’s see if he ante’s up.
12 Sep 2011, 12:16 pm
@Helen(Helen)-214: Frans Steyn used to at times do a looping pass to frans Steyn off set play! You can’t pass to yourself maaaan.
12 Sep 2011, 12:17 pm
@danuk(danuk)-247:
So are you saying that between 2010 and 2011 Morne suddenly became a bad tackler?
Does it not make more sense to say that the weak Bok tight five is unable to accommodate a Morne Steyn/Andrew Mehrtens type defender at no.10?
And yet, without a Morne Steyn/Andrew Mehrtens type of kicker no team is going to win this Cup.
Furthermore, without a strong tightfive, no team is going to win this Cup, even WITH a Morne Steyn/Mehrtens type flyhalf.
So the answer, then, is obvious. Don’t replace the only 100% goalkicker from the opening weekend of the 2011 World Cup. Instead, make the necessary replacements in the tight five to make your kicker – and your loose forwards – effective again.
Conclusion: The problem isn’t at 10, or amongst the loosies. The problem is in the front five.
And for the record, Butch was utterly **** on Sunday.
12 Sep 2011, 12:17 pm
A gazzilion caps on the park and a one point win
12 Sep 2011, 12:20 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-253: Not buying that, Morne’s 1st time tackling in the 2nd half was terrible. He simply tackles to high and falls off the players. Butch had to mark Roberts and the 8th man in the try.
If we play him for his kicking then we need to bolster up the 10 – 12 channel, maybe swopping him on defense with Frans Steyn or one of the wings coming across, like JPP did
12 Sep 2011, 12:21 pm
it’s a well-known fact that most international teams would targe t a weak- tackling ten, as in the case with morne steyn.silly to blame jdv for a steyn’s cowardly display.
12 Sep 2011, 12:21 pm
Boks ‘like ancient edifice’
2011-09-12 11:44Email | Print
Cape Town – Sympathy for Wales rather than any significant salute for the victorious Springboks has predictably tended to dominate international media reaction to the World Cup Pool D nail-biter in Wellington.
Some writers, nevertheless, did point out that the scoreboard, and not sentiment, wins rugby matches and did find time to laud old-fashioned South African guts and last-ditch desire.
Ben Dirs on http://www.bbc.co.uk said Wales proved they “could be contenders” one day. “But you have to rip the title away from a champion and unlike in boxing, in rugby scoreboards rarely lie.
“There were times when South Africa resembled some ancient edifice being laid siege to, marauding Welshmen dismantling them bit by bit.
“With 15 minutes remaining, it seemed we were witnessing the end of an era. And then somebody flicked a switch.
“The old adage has it that a fighter’s punch is the last thing to go, but actually it is his pride: Bismarck du Plessis having been injected, South Africa bolted into life … a few desperate swings, and unfortunately for Wales one of them connected.”
Meanwhile Toby Robson, writing in Wellington-based New Zealand newspaper The Dominion Post, suggested that those who watched the 17-16 win would add it to the “mounting evidence” that the Springboks are a side close to tipping over the edge of the age barrier.
“For now, South Africa can cling still to the survival instincts that remain only just intact after playing the part of a giant sponge. How they won remains unclear … this was a bumbling escape rather than a statement of intent.
“(But) whoever wants to beat the Boks at this tournament will have to run through a wall of green granite: it starts with flankers Schalk Burger and Heinrich Brussow, spreads forward to lock Danie Rossouw and out to centre Jaque Fourie.
“They won despite a horror night from Fourie du Preez (and) some clueless play from Morne Steyn.”
Senior rugby writer Mick Cleary of The Daily Telegraph in London said defeat for Wales was “a low blow indeed”.
He added: “Whatever happened to justice in sport, an even break, a fair return on sweat and toil and enterprise? The scoreboard can be a heartless arbiter.
“Tough: that’s the nature of the business. It rarely comes down to luck; it’s invariably will and nerve that makes the difference and South Africa are masters of that little trick.
“The defending champions departed with their morale intact, their campaign to become the first side to win back-to-back titles still on course, albeit shakily.”
12 Sep 2011, 12:22 pm
@24_years_new_zeeland_looking_for_web_ellis_where_the_f_is_web_ellis(p0ppa69)-250: Bees Roux your new Hero.. I see he paid R750,000 to kill that cop when the going rate in Cape Town is R15000.. He also paid the prosecutor an undisclosed sum to organise the plea bargain.. I am really pissed off with the Plea bargain.. My “Janitor” reckons its gonna cost me more now to sort you out
12 Sep 2011, 12:23 pm
@danuk(danuk)-258:
How many games did NZ lose because Mehrtens couldn’t tackle for sh*t?
Not many.
In fact, weren’t they constantly on the verge of breaking the consecutive test victory record under John Hart? And that was with Can’t-Tackle-Mehrtens at no.10.
12 Sep 2011, 12:23 pm
Burger was SA’s man of the match, yet some bloggers want to see him dropped. Man I have read it all today. The man who is the biggest liability and sissy in the team is Spies. That is the problem – bring in Alberts and drop the guy to orange carrier, once and for all. Thank goodness they benched him as he was nowhere.
12 Sep 2011, 12:24 pm
heavens game , like your team .I presume Mossie means JF ?
12 Sep 2011, 12:24 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-251: I did compain about McCaw, Carter, mils lack of adaptability. I was not alone in this rare concept as the three wisemen effected a game plan change. With the boks what’s plan B? Would you trust these chaps to match the ABs and wallabies or the Fijians and Tongans with a running game, heh?! you know that’d end in disaster! Stick to Morne at 10, play traditional bok strength from the forwards to Steyn to the Heavens, and then do it again!!!
12 Sep 2011, 12:25 pm
Got to go
12 Sep 2011, 12:25 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-256: Are you saying he is a good tackler? Simple yes or no?
Your obviously a Morne fan, so not going into the Butch discussion with you, however you cannot say Morne is a good defender because of the S14, or because the loosies did not back him up.
His defense is ****, mostly/probably because he tackles too high. IF the boks want to play him then they need to find a better way to plug that gap, because the loosies cannot be expected to fill that backline gap all the time, because of the breakdowns.
12 Sep 2011, 12:26 pm
@danuk(danuk)-267:
If the guy is blue he is best. No logic about that statement needed.
12 Sep 2011, 12:27 pm
@Helen(Helen)-170:
This charade of a chickadee if at all it is a chickadee is just as mesmerized befok as the rest of the hail hero worshipers who coagulate around the grubby rugby pubs adulation besmirching their los lipstick after hero’s that aren’t. Those that cannot see FdP’s and Burgers inadequacies are the self same moronic menstrual misplaced perceptions that were hail hero worshiping John Smit as the White Knight in shining armor that would deliver them out of hegemony and walk tall victorious come what may just the other day. It took 3 players to rescue that floundering fckup of a disaster from out of the dragons snorting nostrils and their names are Bismark du Plessis, Willem Alberts and Francois Hougaard, NOT John Smit, Schalk Burger or Fourie du Preez, who all belong to the over the hill and on the decline dismally dreary diminishing aching breaking club.
12 Sep 2011, 12:27 pm
ag wales can also talk themselves up big time, they want to be contenders, dont just get close with the big guns, don’t lose to fiji and samoa like last time out, i reckon both those boys could very well take the welshies close and our lot better be careful too.
12 Sep 2011, 12:28 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-153: Agree. He does not even need to stand-up. Could still wave that magic wand from his sleeping bag amongst 21 playing members. Sorry to repeat the obvious.
12 Sep 2011, 12:29 pm
mense ‘n woord v raad…..
if you want to drop people…
drop the coaches…
12 Sep 2011, 12:30 pm
Very good column Keo, well written and insightful…
My squad for next weekend:
15 P Lambie
14 Hougaard
13 J Fourie
12 F Steyn
11 JP Pietersen
10 B James
09 F du Preez
08 W Alberts
07 S Burger
06 H Brussow
05 J Muller (Captain)
04 D Rossouw
03 J du Plessis
02 B du Plessis
01 G Steenkamp
16 Smit
17 CJ
18 Mostert
19 F Louw
20 R Pienaar
21 J Dejongh
22 G Aplon
12 Sep 2011, 12:30 pm
@danuk(danuk)-258: Mornes most glaring miss was on who? This led to a try. Now questions must be asked as to how the Boks got themselves into this mismatch with a marauding 8 against our 10. This is more an indictment on other players and our defensive system than Steyn himself. The Wallabies find a way to accommodate Cooper. The Boks must find a way to protect M Steyn. Steyn has the best boot at the WC so far especially with this ball that does very strange things in flight (Johnny and Carter are finding it difficult – Morne not). He is invaluable. Instead I reckon the Boks need to shore up 12. For too long Donkey has been a passenger there. He has been exposed there repeatedly in the Welsh game and in the last couple of 3N games not only for his ability to take the tackle but for his defensive positioning. M Steyn has been the scapegoat for this. Although Butch is good at head on confrontational defense, his actual positioning, alignment and defensive positioning leaves a lot to be desired.
You guys are picking on the obvious – Morne Steyn. A bit more depth and asking more “whys” will help get to the real answer.
12 Sep 2011, 12:31 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-236: you think ian foster is as astute as the welsh management?
when you say “giant Polynesians” to some people’s minds it might conjure up images of marauding lomu-like players, in the same way someone saying “giant Afrikaners” might ellicit images of bakkies moering someone, when in truth a kak softie like Spies is Afrikaner too, so is Dewalt Potgieter.
in anycase Liam Messam, Sione Lauaki & Tanerau Latimer are hardly reverred players even in their own country.
this is TEST rugby, not S14.
12 Sep 2011, 12:31 pm
@danuk(danuk)-267:
I thought I made myself pretty clear.
Morne isn’t the best defender around, but some of the greatest flyhalves in history were very poor defenders. E.G. Mehrtens, to pick someone from the modern era.
The point is, you just have to compensate for it, like NZ did when Mehrtens dominated the no.10 position for almost a decade.
Big tackling flyhalves are an anomaly. Not that Butch is an effective defender in any case. He slipped some easy tackles on Sunday, while flying in with arms swinging all over the place.
Back to Morne. A good defender at flyhalf is not a must have. A dominant tight five, however, most certainly is.
12 Sep 2011, 12:31 pm
@Sean(seanbokpool)-264: Yup There is only one Mossie Fourie
12 Sep 2011, 12:31 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-262: I fail to see your point, Mehrtens were hardly ever tested, so why would John Hart drop him. The ABs maintain an 80% plus win record, the boks don’t.
You cannot say because the ABs had a flyhalf that was not the greatest defender that it means we should stick to the same plan, because:
1. The game is substantially quicker and the midfield of any good team needs to be strong in defence to have any chance. How many times in the last 2 years have teams broken through our 10-12 channel?
2. Unless you’ve been on another planet it’s clear to see that the Boks are not dominating even against Wales. We are not John Hart’s ABs and pretending we are is ridiculious
12 Sep 2011, 12:33 pm
The thing is the Boks have a chance to win if the right players are selected, but they are not being selected – JW knew this which is why he offered his services pretending he was doing everyone a big favour. He could see Smit was on his last legs and told him to retire. I think Smit could still be useful as a final 10-minute subbie, but for the love of christus, start Bismark and Alberts.
12 Sep 2011, 12:33 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-275:
Well pick the revered Crusaders then, who the Bulls smashed three times in three semifinals, with Morne at flyhalf.
Pick the Blues, who the Bulls smashed many times with Morne at flyhalf.
Pick any NZ team you choose. Point is, if your pack is strong enough a weaker defender at no.10 can easily be accommodated.
12 Sep 2011, 12:34 pm
@Staal(Staal)-272: One hundred percent ayfcking ay!
12 Sep 2011, 12:36 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-274: I’m not picking on Morne, however I think we need to except that his tackling is ****.
Then if that is the case, and we want to play him for his kicking, make a plan to plug that gap, like the Aussies with Cooper.
Problem here is that people like Tac seems to want to insist that Morne is not that bad, because of a S14 title two years ago
12 Sep 2011, 12:36 pm
fdp had a shocker on saturday and he nearly cost the boks the game.how people still hero-worship him is beyond me.
12 Sep 2011, 12:36 pm
@danuk(danuk)-278:
Well that’s my whole point. We are NOT dominating up front. We MUST dominate up front.
Or we might as well go home, even if we have Dan Carter at 10.
It is so obvious.
Changing flyhalves will be like re arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, if we don’t change our pack of forwards.
And if we change our pack of forwards, then Morne won’t be tested, just like Mehrtens wasn’t tested.
What’s so difficult to understand about that?
Strong tight five – non-negotiable.
Dead-eye d*ck goalkicker – non-negotiable.
Swinging arm crash tackler at 10 – very negotiable.
12 Sep 2011, 12:37 pm
dunno why morne’s defense is considered so bad, the welsh were steaming over our forwards let alone our backs, they were getting non-stop go-forward
ball such are the 3 passengers in the pack in smit, matfield and spies – spies was knocked back, burger was knocked back, they were all knocked back – apart from alberts and bismarck – and that is when the game changed.
12 Sep 2011, 12:39 pm
@Helen(Helen)-122: Well, to take a lineout you need a coached, practised unity between jumpers and throwers. You can’t blame a dartboard if the dart-thrower simply can’t hit it.
12 Sep 2011, 12:39 pm
@topaz(topaz)-283: i guess it should read sunday.
12 Sep 2011, 12:40 pm
THIS IS FUNNYYYY!
http://youtu.be/WazeyJtY7UQ
12 Sep 2011, 12:40 pm
If we want to pick our strongest available team, my pack for Fiji would be the following:
Gurthro
Bismark
Jannie
Rossouw (lock)
Alberts (lock)
Burger
Brussouw
Spies
That will destroy them up front, while retaining our breakdown specialist and our mobility at the same time.
12 Sep 2011, 12:43 pm
@danuk(danuk)-282: That what I was saying. Steyn is no heroic defender, but neither is he pisspoor as an average flyhalf defender though he certainly is not in the Jonny W no 10 defensive ability league.
Our problem rather is that we have a problem at 12 which not only negatively impacts the Boks defensive ability but on attack too. Donkey has morphed into a poor defender and nothing more than a crashball player – this is not the same JdV who certainly was an asset in attack. He also is an injury waiting to happen.
Now we have alternatives who are proven players at 12 in partnership with Mossie especially on defence: JdJ and F Steyn.
Its time for Dippy to make the call and do the right thing, similarly for 2 and 8. He needs to do it NOW.
12 Sep 2011, 12:44 pm
@capebull(capebull)-211: I disagree, if player finds himself at a ruck and its pressured he will be required to clean.
Spies does sweet PfHUCK all.
Enjoy.
12 Sep 2011, 12:44 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-276: this “dominant tight five” is your excuse for every Blue Bulls kak player, when Spies vanishes it is because “the tight five are not giving him front foot ball”
i’m still waiting to hear what it is Spies did gister.
12 Sep 2011, 12:46 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-292:
Nothing. Because of the tight five. Smiley face.
12 Sep 2011, 12:47 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-280: this is TEST rugby, not S14.
12 Sep 2011, 12:49 pm
Nah, imo its not just the tight 5, its a pack effort, and we are carrying 3 passengers in that pack, which is at least 2 too many, and with bakkies out, its 3 too many.
Name me one other top 5 nation that even has one passenger in their pack, they dont.
12 Sep 2011, 12:50 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-262: you do realize that the game has moved on since 1995, back the props were fat and only had to turn up to scrum … the game had moved on man, there is no place for kak passenger type players who can only kick penalties, ffs!
And what the hell did that show pony Spies do the whole match? Useless 100%
12 Sep 2011, 12:51 pm
@cab(cab)-285: morne wasn’t knocked back by roberts cab, he DUCKED out of the way!
to be monstered is one thing, to be kak bang us another.
12 Sep 2011, 12:51 pm
In tight WC games like this goalkicking is vital!! If the Welsh had Morne Steyn in their team they would’ve won!! And all we want to do is discard him?
12 Sep 2011, 12:52 pm
@cab(cab)-295: New Zealand have Adam Thomson, he is sh*t.
12 Sep 2011, 12:52 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-284:
I do understand your point – dominate upfront and Morne will be fine
Great, that is a valid plan if we had a dominant forward pack. I’m sorry but when have we dominated up front recently? Or maybe your hoping that the game against the ABs means that we have that ability. You might want to watch that game again, because with a little better handling we would have lots by some margin.
You keep on referring to the wonderful Bulls team that dominated in the S14. This year that same team did not dominate upfront and the weaknesses in the backline got seriously exposed, as per the game against the Crusaders.
I’m sorry but:
- I don’t see us dominating the ABs upfront; and
- They will run through that channel all day long
That strategy is flawed to me. Whether Morne’s plays or not is the bigger question, however I don’t think he can stand at 10 on defense
12 Sep 2011, 12:55 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-297:
i didn’t see that, but i thought he played well, he’s pretty calm and for the amount of **** ball he was getting did pretty well. Both he and Butch are fine 10s, no-one in world rugby has Morne’s accuracy, its not our problem, our problem as tacitus says is that the Boks are not dominating upfront, which they can do if the right players are selected, unfortunately that excludes both smit and spies.
12 Sep 2011, 12:56 pm
I don’t get the Morne must go story. When the Boks played in PE and Morne scored all the points people were singing his praises. Morne was not exceptionally kak yesterday, he was just playing his usual kak game. That is the best you are ever going to get from Morne. What exaserbated the situation is that Fdp was even worse, so automatically made Morne looked even shittier than usual.
12 Sep 2011, 12:57 pm
@cab(cab)-301: Tacitus will never advocate dropping Spies.
12 Sep 2011, 12:58 pm
I have come to realise something over the weekend paying close attention old Fitzpatrick, before I comment I
will say I am one of the first to say Bismark must start and if he had been he would be fully match fit to last a solid full 80 but that is now compromised with his
serious lack of full game time!!!FFS..
Deep down the kiwis & Fitzpatrick are actually shitting themselves at the prospect that heaven forbit the Boks do become efficient with the second stringers starting
And then being able to bring on the Super Power Bench killers in the last 30 or so because then they can destroy anyone in the dying minutes.
Back to reality, the risk of this of course can be so fatal as we all saw on Sat..
By not starting your very best XV you run the risk of falling behind and giving the opposition a huge mental boost that they can beat you.
The Boks should be starting their Absolut best team with the goal of dominating and pulverising the opposition into their shells with the likes of John Smit, Spies & Habana to come of the bench and close the game out. And I’ll bet you will find after their golden butts feel the wood of the bench for a few games & when they do infact come on they will play better and be more effective against work opposition.
I also think the prospect of starting F Steyn at 12 with Lambie at 15 would make the boks that much more threatening on attack and without compromising anything on defence, the little issue you may have here is now unsettling FS from 15 when he did so well on Sat at 15..
Add Hougaard to start at 11 or 14 as well. (Again John Smit, Spiese, Habana can come off the bench they will probably be more effective when the opposition is tired and they are fired up from watching first 50)
12 Sep 2011, 12:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-290: Go have a look at the Welsh game again. In the 2nd half to specifically targeted Morne with their 8th man and Roberts, from set play and broken play. So I don’t think just sorting out the 12 helps. In set phase moves I’d rather see the wing come across like with JPP when he tackled Mike Philips high, or swopping Morne for a better defender, ala Aussies
I don’t think he is a coward, however he does not know how to tackle and needs to go lower, around the legs. Surely he cannot be doing the defenders around him any good either.
12 Sep 2011, 13:00 pm
Why pick your strongest team versus Fiji? The dirt-trackers can do the job. can’t they? And, sure as eggs are oval, some front performers WILL get crocked. Like….Victor, Botha, Jean… So, when the “doesn’t-really-matter” pool play ends and it’s now into the do-or-die knockout stages, how many crucial key front-game-performers will still be left at the sharp end of the contest?
12 Sep 2011, 13:01 pm
we absolutely cracked the ABs upfront just 3 weeks ago and that was with 2 very simple changes, bismarck and alberts. the same thing happened yesterday, the welsh were all over us, until the introduction of bismarck and alberts.
The pattern is obvious – bismarck and alberts must play for as long as possible. However, if these coaches think that bismarck and alberts will keep pulling them out of the fire, they are sadly mistaken, momentum is vital in RWC rugby, changing momentum takes an immense effort. The Boks would have lost 9 times out of 10 yesterday, but it just so hapens the welsh kcikers fluffed it. they should never have lost. They were all over us.
12 Sep 2011, 13:01 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-260:
the only way a team is going to win the worldcup in NZ other than, maybe,NZ themselves….is to have a granite like determination and refuse to lose regardless.
the best rugby will not win this WC…not in nz. To win, someone is going to have to knock over NZ in auckland, a venue they haven’t lost at in 60 odd years or so. No team is going to win there playing blistering rugby. A side will need to strangle them to death. Why, even the ozzies took a whipping just a month or so ago there.
I believe the Boks have the granite like fortitude to do this, more so than any other side.
12 Sep 2011, 13:02 pm
Agree with Staal there are severe coaching limitations. Even Namibia’s backline looks more creative and for the pack to get about 40% possession is diabolical.
Man management is all left to the old boys – Smith, Matfield, FDP, who are now falling apart. Compare this with how Robbie Deans and to lesser extent NZ have set up systems where there is strong competition for all positions in their squads. Our top players have been assured of their places since the B& IL tour. New talent has all been ignored e.g. Sarel Pretorius.
Bok rating:
Jannie Dup – 6
Smith – 3 – Clearly no longer up to international standard
Beast – 4 – Off day
Rossouw – 4
Matfield – 4
Brussouw – 7 – Fought a lone battle at the breakdown and tackled like a deamon
Burger – 6 – Ferocious tackling, lacking creativity on attack
Spies – 2 Anonymous as is always the case when the pack does not dominate. Always leave the hard work to the rest of the pack
FDP – 3 His worst performance in a Bok jersey. He looks tentative. The crisp passing is gone and has been replaced by a slow loopy pass. Agree with Big Hit it looks as if he is playing with an injured shoulder.
Morne S – 5 Only because of his kicking. A liability on attack and defence. Like Spies he only flourishes if his pack absolutely dominates
JP 5 – Limited opportunities
JDV – 4 Well past his best
JF – 5 He would flourish in any well coached structure unfortunately all his opportunities come from unstructured play
Habana – 3 Lost his speed and is now very average. An international player that have not scored in an international for such a log time would have been long gone elsewhere
F Steyn – 6 Much better than his last test
Willem A – 6 Much better option than Spies especially on slow NZ venues
FH – 7 – The only player that looked as if he wanted to be there and his enthusiasm shone through. He has the speed for an international winger and should replace Habana
Muller – 4 Made little impact
Guthro – 5
Bismarck – 8 Massive impact and must be in the starting squad.
Butch – 5 Tackled not much else
We were lucky in this game. With the limited possession, poor kicking by the opposition and the wrong decision with the one penalty we should have lost this game. The current side will really do well to go past the QF.
Agree with Keo bold decisions are now required e.g. new blood is needed in the starting lineup – Bismarck, Hougaard, Lambie, Alberts.
12 Sep 2011, 13:02 pm
Alberts to Lock is not a bad option and the fact that Spies doubles as a line out option is also something to be taken in account.
Jamie Roberts smashed up JdV then Morne and Butch, so he was highly effective as their destroyer in chief in the midfield, where was Schalk and Spies protecting that channel. However if you looking for an unflinching stop gap in the defensive 10/12 channel you need look no further than Juan de Jongh, he would have brought the big lumbering ox down.
12 Sep 2011, 13:03 pm
I don’t have a strategy to win rugby games if you don’t have a dominant pack. Sorry. Then go home.
12 Sep 2011, 13:05 pm
Wales outplayed us in all facets of play and really deserved to win that game.
Our defense looked suspect once again and you have to question why a new defensive coach was brought in so late before the World Cup. It can take months for a team to get use to a certain defensive system, and it looks like most of the players are clueless at the moment. You still have Habana rushing up for intercepts.
The fact is I don’t think the experience guys in the team want to adapt. Their arrogance and attitude of “having achieved it all” has made them un-coachable. We don’t have the strong coaching and leadership among the management to take them out of that comfort zone.
How can they expect us to support a national team if the team is not representative of the best players from the country?
We had to deal with quotas all these years, and now this. We have arguably the best hooker in the world and a backline player in red hot form being kept out by has-beens.
Why do we constantly accommodate and pick players for a national team in the hope that they’ll find form one day? When last did Habana, Spies, de Villiers and John Smit actually put in outstanding performances at international level? The best they can dish up these days are steady ones.
It’s time for the SA management to own up and take responsibility for all the k@k happening on and off the field. They had 4 years to prepare for this World Cup, and is this the best they can do?
We are so competitive at super rugby and yet so clueless at national level, because we have a bunch of clowns for a coaching team and a coach who’s been picked as a political token. It’s time to face the truth.
12 Sep 2011, 13:06 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-293: Very poor argument.
I , like you, have defended Pierre Spies for far too long. He just doesn’t have the drive, hunger or heart to be an international rugby player.
He showed absolutely no commitment on Saturday. If your team is in trouble and is losing the tight exchanges then you roll up your sleeves and fight with them. He is an international rugby forward for goodness sake, not David Campese hanging around waiting for things to happen so he can look good.
Forget that he is a Bull for once and open your eyes and stop making excuses for him. It’s quite sad really.
He got a free ride with the Boks this last two seasons and is no better than a Wayne Julies or Adrian Jacobs. He didn’t earn 1/4 of the tets caps he got.
12 Sep 2011, 13:08 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-303: instead Tacitus, true to form advocates that SCHALK must be dropped for Alberts
bwahahahaha
none more blind than those who refuse to see.
12 Sep 2011, 13:10 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-311: How about this?
So you can secure your own ball, put pressure on their defence in attack AND defend well and put pressure on their ball when you do.
Strange, I’m sure I’ve seen teams play that way and actually manage to win as well
12 Sep 2011, 13:12 pm
@danuk(danuk)-305: You are repeating some of what I have been saying… So, no, I don’t think I need to watch the Welsh game again.
Nevertheless some posters just don’t get it. I think this may be one of those times. But we are all welcome to our opinions on Keo.
12 Sep 2011, 13:12 pm
die ou wat die internet uigedink het moes n ouderdoms besperking geplaas het…
dan hoef ek nie al die snot te lees nie.
12 Sep 2011, 13:13 pm
Trannie
Schalk,
Alberts and
Wonky-knee Brusouw
gives us the slowest loose trio combo since Wahl Bartman took to the field.
12 Sep 2011, 13:13 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-303: he is to Spies what Agile is to Stegmann
12 Sep 2011, 13:13 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-310: Other than the Alberts to lock twak, this poster agrees one hundred percent.
12 Sep 2011, 13:14 pm
@Pypkan(Pypkan)-313: The problem with Spies is that I think he did basically the same as Schalk, probably with less covering tackles. He might as well be a lock with his amount of loose play at the moment.
Unlike Alberts or Bissie he is not a 1st phase go forward man.
If you play him then they need to use him more like Wales used their 8th man, outside the inside centre.
Unfortunately it seems even Wales have better attacking coaches than we do currently
12 Sep 2011, 13:14 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-303:
yeah but it seems the coaches have got their selection priorities all fkd up, on current form brussow and alberts are non-negotiables, the third starting spot should be contested between burger and spies, imo burger is stil the better allround player because he does what fowards are meant to do, but one of them needs to be dropped to the bench and i think spies pace is his real strength which can be used in teh last 20 minutes when there are more gaps that he can bust thru.
12 Sep 2011, 13:16 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-314: Uligwala! Ndala ndiku buze imibuzo awukapenduli nagoku! Ndikulindele gwalandini. lol
12 Sep 2011, 13:16 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-314: It looks like a diversion to take some heat of Spies. hehehe.
12 Sep 2011, 13:17 pm
On the other hand, Brussouw, Alberts and Spies gives you the perfect balance between power, speed and breakdown skills.
12 Sep 2011, 13:18 pm
@Pypkan(Pypkan)-313:
Post of the month!!!
He has been a liability to the team for years now, but like so many others in the team he was made the promise to be there. Sad but true.
12 Sep 2011, 13:18 pm
1st on team sheet: Ratel
2nd on team sheet (Or should be): Bismarck
3rd. Victorious (But now he is injured)
It really is a pity the three “wise” clowns and in particular head clown Dippy have painted themselves into a corner by stating that Smitty is “The best hooker in the World”
Farken stoopid, innit? But these are the Bok coaches.
12 Sep 2011, 13:19 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-318: That’s funny! However, spies must go! He offers nothing.
12 Sep 2011, 13:22 pm
@RL(RL)-319: Hahahahahahaha. So True.
12 Sep 2011, 13:24 pm
first on my teamsheet is always a very, very reliable kicker cause you will get penalties……..
Percy het soos sy gat getackle but he won us WC2007 on his own! Take a bow.
12 Sep 2011, 13:25 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-318: But you have 3 players in your loose trio combination, rather than 2. Other than running with the ball when put into space, Spies has a terrible skill set for a loose forward. We cannot afford to have him in the team anymore.
12 Sep 2011, 13:25 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-318: Slower than Samo, Pocock, Elsom? Or even Vito, McCaw, Kaino? Now you smoking tea, man.
12 Sep 2011, 13:26 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-332: I think too much stake is put on the speed of Spies. In games like yesterday, like a ferrari on a 4×4 track, useless.
12 Sep 2011, 13:28 pm
i wonder if there is pressure on the coaches? but then again imo they are clueless to do something about it..
for a massively pride rugby nation we are dishing out some horrible rugby…….
12 Sep 2011, 13:29 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-333:
Maybe there is more to Spies than meets the eye! At least we all know that Agile is Steggies brother, maybe Tac is Spies’s wife.
12 Sep 2011, 13:29 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-335:
…or secret lover.
12 Sep 2011, 13:29 pm
i actually was surprised when i came back from cycling to hear we’ve won.
12 Sep 2011, 13:29 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-335: Eish
12 Sep 2011, 13:31 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-325: The speed that Spies has means nothing when it comes to defending and securing ball at the rucks. He is so ineffective in this basic skills of loose forward play that he might as well not be there.
And with the Boks not playing a very attacking brand of rugby, and this being a World Cup where the games will be played a lot tighter we cannot afford to have any passengers.
12 Sep 2011, 13:32 pm
“To win here the Boks have to change who starts and how they play. Wales gave every South African the most timely reminder that what worked in 2007 won’t be good enough to beat one of Australia or New Zealand in a play-off.”
As if what worked in 07 was good enough to beat the All Blacks and Aussies.Mate we beat Fiji,USA,Samoa,Tonga,Argentina and England,the tripe that was dished out on Saturday would still be enough to beat these teams.We were lucky in 07,this time around we have to beat the best to be the best.If we beat the Irish,All Blacks and Wallabies then we would truly be the world’s best.Unlike in 07 where we beat those mediocre teams and claimed we were the best.
12 Sep 2011, 13:33 pm
but i must say … and this is my positive input….
John Smit really has a very good persona on TV and he answers all the questions like the true captain he is..
man in front of the TV he makes me “believeeeeeeeeeeeee” in the bok plan…. will try to find it somewhere……..
12 Sep 2011, 13:34 pm
What happened to Hurdles – the next best thing to sliced bread???
12 Sep 2011, 13:35 pm
If the Boks stick with their current pattern it would be madness to drop Morne. When you rely on pressure rugby rather than an adventurous attacking game, you must go with your best goalkicker, the man who’s going to win matches. Morne is the best goalkicker in the world, and possibly the best kicker of dropped goals too. He’s perfect for the rugby the Boks are playing.
If you drop him and go with Butch or someone else, you must adopt a much more attacking style because Butch or Lambie are far less likely to kick you to victory and you’ll need to rack up more tries.
I believe it’s too late to make such a massive change. The Boks should stick with what they know best, and that’s power rugby. If they adopt a more expansive style next season it may win them the next world cup but right now it would simply disrupt them.
With Jean having injury concerns again I’d play Butch at inside centre, but on defence shift him to fly-half, bring Frans into midfield and put Morne out of harm’s way at fullback.
The bigger worry, as I see it, is the mounting injury toll up front. Too many key men are being affected, especially with the pack already shorn of Juan Smith (the best forward in the world in my opinion).
12 Sep 2011, 13:35 pm
I think we only won on the scoreboard! Does that sound familiar? Bwahahaaa
12 Sep 2011, 13:35 pm
Pypkan
You obviously feel strongly about it. That’s your right. I think spies does a lot of cover tackling, and should be used to carry the ball in the midfield. I’d rather have him bashing it up than de villiers or jacque fourie.
Anyway, I think he can be very effective if used correctly by the buffoon coaches.
12 Sep 2011, 13:35 pm
With Butch there we will play better, but lose because of vital kicks being missed. With Steyn there we may lose, but we may also win games that we should not have won. If Butch played we would still have lost the battle upfront and we would have had a worse kicker i.e. we would have lost. There is no way Butch is so good that he would have turned everything around. Maybe 4 years ago, but not now.
Steyn was the only cool and calm character in the 20 minutes after our first try.
12 Sep 2011, 13:37 pm
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-340: Yho Yho ukumshile!
12 Sep 2011, 13:38 pm
Funny how little the content and title of this article have in common…
12 Sep 2011, 13:40 pm
Morne Steyn must be there. We don’t have any alternative. Derrick Hougaardt is a similar player to Steyn but a much better defender and tactical kicker. if he was still eligable I would use him. I just don’t have enough faith in James and Lambie’s place kicking for the crunch games.
12 Sep 2011, 13:41 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-333: They could also possibly use him better, like the Welsh used their 8th man
12 Sep 2011, 13:42 pm
I’ve watched that game again, Gatland is right boks dont play any rugby but we’ve always known that, and the boks had no business winning that game!
12 Sep 2011, 13:45 pm
Everybody says Gatland got it right re his coaching etc. However, did anyone note that it was the right and timeous introduction of our bench that won the game in the end for SA….and Gatland didn’t intro his bench (save one) at all. Sure the starters played well but can you imagine if this had been SA losing by 1 point and not using the fresh palyers off the bench…..Everyone would have been calling for PdV’s head. The Welsh played great, the Boks didnt seem to be able to get out of 2nd gear….but we still won. Do we have the players to hang in there for the whole RWC (and do the oldies have the staying power??)…….personally I predict we will lose in the semi’s – not the perfect result but somewhat acceptable. Then bring on a new coach, new , younger players when the oldies all go for their pension plans in Europe and the Boks will be VERY ready to win again in 2015.
12 Sep 2011, 13:46 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-342: talking about what happened…
for the last few years all and sundry was told on this blog that:
Jantjies (Wp) was a brilliant fullback.
That Elton Jantjies was now the best 10 in SA.
That Dollie is actually the best 10 in SA.
That Stormers have the best scrum in SA.
That John Smit is the best captain in SA as well as the best 2.
That Zane is the best fullback in SA – but a week later he was the worst…now apparently he is a centre.
And i am not even mentioning the Gadget Boy brigade…… o hell the wanted Rose first pick in the bok squad….
That FdP is still the best 9 in SA.
That Wp, Stormers and now Lions are the best teams in SA while nothing is won yet!
ag a lot of snot is being posted about a lot of players but hell that a blog!
so i take everything everyone on this blog says with a pinch of salt… my own included!
but what ever we do … do not take posts to seirieaaaaaasly!
12 Sep 2011, 13:46 pm
It’s been said for a while now that the Bok’s problems lie a 2, 8, 9, 10, 12 and sometimes also 5.
So now the rugby god’s seem to have heard the prayers of some people and are doing its bit to make PdV and co see the light as well.
5 and 12 are not available for the next game.
2 and 8 should be replaced after their performances yesterday or after their replacements put their performances to shame…… whichever way you want to look at it.
9 and 10 probably deserves another chance. 9 because it took him about 4 games in the S15 to get his groove back. A couple of games against the minor nations in the group may just help his cause in rediscovering some form…… and 10 because the other option are kak as well.
The question that needs asking is whether we will actually learn anything if the changes are made and it works perfectly well against Fiji, Samoa and Nam…. or if we don’t make the changes and the players who performed poorly have good games, does this mean that they should be selected for the rest of the games? For example, if our tight five dominate like Tac wants and Spies plays and has a blinder against Fiji, does that mean that he should be selected for the knock out phase where we know that our tight five are not going to dominate?
Somehow I can’t see that it will tell us anything. Also PdV and co left SA with a clear idea of who the 1st team players are and I don’t believe that they will deviate from that much, if at all.
12 Sep 2011, 13:47 pm
and i am only naming a few…
12 Sep 2011, 13:47 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-351: the Boks are the only team on the planet capable of playing without the ball and winning a match.
12 Sep 2011, 13:48 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-345: And of course it is your right to think that too. I don’t know if I am missing something, but I just can’t agree. The Bulls certainly don’t have Buffoon coaches and Spies was just as ineffective at the Bulls this year. In my opinion he’s had his change to shine for 2 years and he didn’t use it. Time to go.
12 Sep 2011, 13:52 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-351: not sure about that, the best boks team do play rugby, hence why we scored 2 tries with very little ball. We might be playing inconsistent and ****, but we still won
12 Sep 2011, 13:52 pm
@Staal(Staal)-353:
Mate I have never taken anyone seriously here. I have said over and over that this blog has more characters than the Bok team at present.
I’m not delusional and know that we would be VERY lucky to even make the semi-finals, let alone the quarter finals. There has been no planning, structure or game plan to talk of. We also know this team was chosen in 2007 and we all know that it is going to be an uphill battle for the new coach post 2011. BUT hey! I’m a supporter and I cling to every bit of hope there is, whether Spies plays centre or the guitar, whether Steyn or Smit is the FH! That is how seriously I take people here.
12 Sep 2011, 13:52 pm
@RL(RL)-356: Quite right! It’s a miracle.
12 Sep 2011, 13:54 pm
@RL(RL)-356:
Is that virtual rugby? Without the ball
12 Sep 2011, 13:57 pm
@danuk(danuk)-358: From what I saw on Sunday, wales brought a game to the pitch, if it weren’t for poor kicking display that was wales’s game for sure.
12 Sep 2011, 13:58 pm
anyway – cheers i’m out.
Go BIG – you only live once.
12 Sep 2011, 14:03 pm
I really just don’t get it ..
JS was never really any good in my book, but come on, he is really now well past the sell-by date he might have once had.
The hookers at the WC should have been Bismark, Strauss and Chilly. There are hookers playing Vodacom / Varsity cup rugby that would have been better and more dynamic and offer more to the Bok cause than john smit has done in the last 2 years.
… and the Keo and some other have the nerve to say he is not as bad as some think … I equate being a Springbok with being the BEST, or at the very least in the top 2 and at a stretch 3 in your position.
The team is bigger than the person .. unfortunately that does not seem to be the norm at the Springboks.
Smit – must go and use Bimark and Chilly on the bench for cover
Habana / JPP – Hougard must play in place of one of these two because they really both suck.
Spies – Sorry, not much use in NZ, especially behind a beaten pack. Use Alberts
Morne – Very difficult, we need a kicker, need a way to shore up his channel in defence
FduP – Please please find your form
Big Vic & Bakkies – Please please get back to health and fitness ASAP
Brussow / Bismark / Hougard – You Beauties. If all the Boks had your desire and ability we would retain the cup.
Guthro (Beast)
Bissy (Chilly)
Jannie (CJ .. do we have anothe TH?)
? .. Danie
? .. Muller
Brussow
Schalk
Alberts
FduP
Morne
Hougard
JdeJ
Fourie
Can we clone Hougard? (Aplon?)
F Steyn
Bench: Beast, CJ, Chilly, Lambie, Butch, Flo, ?
12 Sep 2011, 14:04 pm
nama1 and Habana & Pietersen? they had a good game cause they are coloured like you? they were, with Smith, the weaklinks in the Bok team yesterday (and last 2 years or so) very bias imo!
12 Sep 2011, 14:06 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-362:
ifs and buts don’t count…Boks should have been over the hill and far away against the Ozzies in Durbs a few weeks ago but weren’t and then lost.
personally, I can’t see Wales ever playing better than that…the boks can play a hell of a lot better.
that’s why we are contenders and the Taffs aren’t.
12 Sep 2011, 14:06 pm
@danuk(danuk)-350: Yeah, I see your point.
12 Sep 2011, 14:07 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-318: @Tacitus(Deucalion)-325:
Spies’ speed isn’t of much help currently, it seems.
Another thing.
-Burger got IRB Player of the Year playing as a loosie in a pack where our tight five did not dominate.
-Brussow made an immediate impact vs the B & I Lions, playing in a pack that did not dominate.
Why can’t your boy Spies do something likewise?
12 Sep 2011, 14:08 pm
@nama1(nama1)-354: Good post. Food for thought.
12 Sep 2011, 14:12 pm
@Staal(Staal)-353:
Hehehe
Brilliant
So true!
12 Sep 2011, 14:13 pm
just hope the refs protect us from fiji and samoan recklessness. brian Lima may well be remembered for that one tackle….but everywhere inbetween he was a crazy kamakaze.
just like butch james
12 Sep 2011, 14:15 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-362: Unfortunately rugby is about kicking as well. Agree with you that Wales applied all the pressure, but we weren’t exactly doing ourselves any favours with silly mistakes either.
A lot of the 1st half penalties came from us making mistakes and that really kept Wales in the game as well
12 Sep 2011, 14:17 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-366: Boks are not contenders, they are favourite’s! I agree they can play their usual game which will make them better but they’ve no business playing wide, that’s not a way for them to win. I think though what we’ve seen thus far is that minnow countries have decided that if a tier 1 nation does not take them seriously, they’ll give them a lot to ponder.
12 Sep 2011, 14:19 pm
@24_years_new_zeeland_looking_for_web_ellis_where_the_f_is_web_ellis(p0ppa69)-365:
You make it about colour, not me. As I said , “It’s been said for a while now that the Bok’s problems lie a 2, 8, 9, 10, 12 and sometimes also 5.” That does not mean that it was said by me although afa Spies goes, I agree wholeheartedly.
On Habana… he should be dropped.
On JPP… he was the form SA wing in the S15 and he just had an off day. Like Morne and FdP.
Smit, JdV, Spies had been kak for two years now, like Habana.
Your different nics over the years have told me all I need to know about you and your perception of people/players of colour.
So fokkof, Clinton.
12 Sep 2011, 14:21 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-373:
boks can play well enough when going wide..problem is our quick ball. there’s not much of it these past 2 seasons. our ruck work and ball retention is mediocre when compared with others.
12 Sep 2011, 14:22 pm
@danuk(danuk)-372: Could not agree more, you have to bring a complete game at the WC and a crucial component of that is consistency in kicking accuracy! I really want to see where is Carter with his still ball kicking as that will be crucial from the quarters onwards.
12 Sep 2011, 14:22 pm
Got to give it to Wales though, the move bringing the 8th man into play on the 1st phase was brilliant. I wish we would try things like that
12 Sep 2011, 14:27 pm
How about shifting Morne to the wing on first phase defense, similar to the Aussies and Quade Cooper.
Or instruct the nr8 to tackle assist the 10-channel on first phase instead of drifting behind the backline to cover an initial linebreak in the wider channels.
Unfortunately our current 8 might not be the best resource in this regard.
12 Sep 2011, 14:31 pm
nama1 oh so we are using real names now are we virgin/virgil
12 Sep 2011, 14:36 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-323: uyibuze phi imibuzo?
12 Sep 2011, 14:38 pm
I heard Ismal Eal Tollie had a shocker for WP …. so Duvenhage will play @ 10 vs the Bulls??
12 Sep 2011, 14:40 pm
Do the Boks have depth???
12 Sep 2011, 14:40 pm
sheesh… can’t believe that schalk is being dissed as not good enough and not being a leader and for not hanging onto the ball etc…
he lost one ball near the end when the welsh guy hit it out of his grasp as he went down… that one incident is being used to say he had a bad game…
burger was often the first forward to the breakdown…
jannie dup missed how many tackles, 3 or 4… jjp gave away a penalty and his tackling was pathetic… but they’re not mentioned (for example)… guys just focus on burger’s one glaring mistake to write him off and out of the team…!!
those he say he is not a leader… apparently it was his call to go for touch and take the line out that lead to hougie’s try… brave decision… when most of us… me included… would have gone for posts taken the points and come back for more…
so how is he not a good leaders…?
can anyone explain…?
and can anyone confirm is he did or did not make that call….?
in the studio afterwards they spoke matter-of-fact that it was his call…??!!
12 Sep 2011, 14:40 pm
Digby likely to miss the rest of the tournament.
12 Sep 2011, 14:41 pm
@yank(yank)-352:
warren gatland is just a huge long term failure for the welsh in my opinion. pretty much like pdv really. he’s only managed to make wales look good in stutters and never really built a team with the makings of any visible long term prospects.
quite simply only an idiot would have built their teams campaign around beating the boks and topping the toughest pool in wc 2011. a realistic and pragmatic approach should have been to focus all their energy on samoa instead. to do this of course they would have had to also negotiate wins against fiji and namibia.
as it stands they may very well not progress further than the pool stage as samoa are sure to pick up good bonus points against namibia and fiji as well to probably beat the welsh. to pick yourself up after a run out against the boks for a showing a week later against the samoans is a very hard ask for the worlds number 1 and 2 ranked teams, let alone the welsh.
also, consider that wales after all had been knocked out of the last world cup by fiji in the pool stage (which was their first loss to fiji in 8 games, and could yet very well happen again) and are now banking on beating a powerfull samoa side to whom they’ve lost 3 times and won 4.
perhaps they’ll pull it off but i just dont see it happening.
12 Sep 2011, 14:42 pm
@willievz(willievz)-378: Spies and Burger did that, problem comes in phase 2 onwards. Our pack struggled in the loose and with quick ball for Wales it was always a tough ask for the loosies to get back to fill all the gaps. That’s probably where Bissie is so important because he does so much work in the loose.
That’s also where I think we missed a Andries Bekker
12 Sep 2011, 14:43 pm
@wallabie.(wallabie.)-384:
that’s a great pity…
12 Sep 2011, 14:45 pm
@Staal(Staal)-355:
oh and…luke watson to captain the boks, also chester williams to coach them…
i’ll keep thinking…?
12 Sep 2011, 14:46 pm
@nama1(nama1)-354:
Hey Nama
The right replacements are there already!
Let me name them for you,
2- Chiliboi
8 – Johnson
9- Jinka
10- Elton Jamtjies
12 – JdJ
5- Lobert/Mabeta when are ready!
Got to speak out your mind!
12 Sep 2011, 14:48 pm
@wallabie.(wallabie.)-384: O’Connor is a more than capable replacement
12 Sep 2011, 14:49 pm
@ufo(ufo)-383: FdP was captain
12 Sep 2011, 14:50 pm
@yank(yank)-352:
in regards the boks, i think they could squeack through the semis perhpas given their experience and the fact that the all blacks will (obviously) be nervous as hell…yes, the term choking would be in order.
to beat the ozzies in a final however seems to me to likely be a ‘final too far’ judging by the looks of the boks compared to the ozzies. rather like engalnd in 2007.
12 Sep 2011, 14:53 pm
@capebull(capebull)-391:
can you confirm that…? or do you just think he was…?
in the studio afterwards they were quite adamant that burger had made that call and spoke at length about it…
i’m not trying to argue… just would like to know 100% based on info from the team etc…
12 Sep 2011, 14:53 pm
@ufo(ufo)-383:
JS made most of the tackles, ball carries and rucks clean ups among the forwards although SB came second close
How many had the Beast?
12 Sep 2011, 14:53 pm
@willievz(willievz)-378: Hi Willie hope you’re well.
I think that Pierre puts the guys under unnescessary pressure by not putting in the physical aspect of his game. He should be supporting that channel, but for some reason was AWOL the whole game. Very frustrating.
12 Sep 2011, 14:53 pm
@wallabie.(wallabie.)-384:
@ufo(ufo)-387:
yes, great pity indeed, for oz as well the viewers…he’s electric and really gets the pulse racing most times he has the ball.
that being said its a relief for the boks if we make it to the final not to have to face him.
12 Sep 2011, 14:54 pm
“dubhula ibhunu” is declared hate speech. Ag shame die arme JUJU is in sy Maai
12 Sep 2011, 14:55 pm
Where would i go look for the stats thingie on the players tackles and that kind of stuff on the net ?
12 Sep 2011, 14:56 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-394:
and yet everyone’s calling for smit’s head to be mounted like a dusty old hunting trophy…???
12 Sep 2011, 14:58 pm
Rugby: Fiji side sleeping with the enemy
10:03 PM Monday Sep 12, 2011
The Fiji team which will play South Africa at the Rugby World Cup on Thursday has checked into a Wellington hotel which houses the South African embassy.
A writer traveling with the team and writing both for the Fiji Sun newspaper and the Fiji Rugby Union said “just about wherever we turn in this building we see South Africans. Strange move by the Rugby World Cup powers-that-be to do that to us.”
Fiji beat Namibia 49-25 in its opening World Cup match on Saturday but must now step up to face the reigning world champion. It may also have to do so without first five-eighths Waisea Luveniyali, who suffered a calf muscle strain in the Namibia match.
- AP
12 Sep 2011, 15:00 pm
KEO…
you say you read everything on here… can you ryan or jon find out from the camp who took over the captaincy and who made the call to take the lineout…?
would be much appreciated…
12 Sep 2011, 15:01 pm
@Ethel(Ethel)-397: you have to love how SOME politics is seen as acceptable here.
12 Sep 2011, 15:02 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-402: Hi Transie, do you know the name of the stats site ?
12 Sep 2011, 15:03 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-400: bwahahahahaha blame the kiwis
12 Sep 2011, 15:03 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-395: Hi Stormersboy, I am well thanks, just returned from a holiday in South East Asia.
How are you?
I am very worried about those inside channels and the momentum we allow the opposition.
You can have the best defensive system in the world (and I really think our general defense is outstanding compared to last year), but if you struggle in the inside channel on phase one you will have a lot of difficulties in stifling opposition momentum on more mature phases.
And to expect guys like Brussow to make 20+ tackles every game is wishful thinking. The body will break down sooner rather than later.
12 Sep 2011, 15:04 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-403: no sweety, bryce_in_oz is the stats guru
12 Sep 2011, 15:05 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-402:
Ne. Ek sal dit dan vluit. Hmm hmmm hmmm hmmm
12 Sep 2011, 15:06 pm
@willievz(willievz)-405: you must’ve been smiling ear to ear
seeing jamie roberts in full flight battering the poo out of morne.
12 Sep 2011, 15:06 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-406: thankyou
12 Sep 2011, 15:06 pm
lol poor malema! not!
12 Sep 2011, 15:10 pm
@24_years_new_zeeland_looking_for_web_ellis_where_the_f_is_web_ellis(p0ppa69)-410:
Ag vooitog siestog shame.
12 Sep 2011, 15:12 pm
Wat het Malema en Pieter De Villiers in gemeen?
Altwee is belaglik.
12 Sep 2011, 15:12 pm
but Ethal it won’t stop the ANCYL … they sang the song outside the courtroom after the judgement
12 Sep 2011, 15:16 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-375: Out of the current crop of boks I’d not entrust to play expansively, and if you do at the WC they won’t make it out if the pool.
12 Sep 2011, 15:17 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-408:
To be fair, Transie, that was Jamie Roberts!
If we picked Barry “SBW killer” Geel, it would have been a different story
12 Sep 2011, 15:20 pm
@ufo(ufo)-401: It was Fourie du Preez
12 Sep 2011, 15:21 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-380: Chap iya ku-265.
12 Sep 2011, 15:21 pm
@TheBoksAreBack(bringbacktheboks)-416:
can you CONFIRM that…?
I see mark lawrence has just retired from reffing…?
damn pity… he was a good ref…!!
12 Sep 2011, 15:23 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-398:
Try http://www.ruggastats.com
12 Sep 2011, 15:26 pm
vluit is FLUIT
vooitog is FOEITOG
Moenie my ma se taal so opvok nie.
12 Sep 2011, 15:27 pm
@willievz(willievz)-405: I’m good thanks. Hope you had a good break!
I agree with you on the inside channel problem. This was a big issue at the PE test too, in spite of us winning. Thankfully our scramble defence was able to close dowm most of the attacks, but as you say, it’s the momentum that it creates that is of grave concern.
For me, the poor form of FDP, alomg with the MIA Spies factor is a major contributor in this area. Morne isn;’ an “offensive” tackler, but he makes his share of tackles, but the worry as I’ve said is the fact that these guys are attacking that area almost at will.
What are your thoughts on Pierre and FDP?
12 Sep 2011, 15:29 pm
@ufo(ufo)-418:
It was Schalk.
12 Sep 2011, 15:33 pm
@nama1(nama1)-420:
12 Sep 2011, 15:36 pm
@UFO
Naka was certain that it was Schalk who took over the captaincy when the question was posed to a panel consisting of him, Hennie le Roux and Lawrence Sephaka on a rugby show on SABC last night.
12 Sep 2011, 15:39 pm
@nama1(nama1)-422:
can you confirm that bud…?
seriously… not trying to argue just would like to know for fact… can anyone quote PdV, or Schalk or FdP or whoever IN THE TEAM and say “they said so-and-so took over the captaincy…”
thanks
12 Sep 2011, 15:40 pm
@nama1(nama1)-424:
cool… thanks Nama…
sorry didn’t see your post when I posted mine previous one…
12 Sep 2011, 15:40 pm
@nama1(nama1)-420: spelling nazi
12 Sep 2011, 15:40 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-265: why would they play an open game against those pacific nations? that is stupid, we’re not Wales.
as for Plan B, Plan A is to keep ball-in-hand – like we did in the first few minutes of yesterday’s game, who do you think skip passed past the centres to find the fransie who barged over shane & hook? – and go wide when you’ve earned it,
Plan B is the skop ‘n jag gameplan, happy?
12 Sep 2011, 15:41 pm
@ufo(ufo)-425: i heard the commentator, MPierce? say that Schalk is taking over the captaincy, maybe he heard the ref say something?
12 Sep 2011, 15:43 pm
@willievz(willievz)-415: ja ek weet,
juan de jongh handled roberts with aplomb in cardiff last year though, i reckon ATTITUDE and technique are also lacking with morne.
12 Sep 2011, 15:43 pm
and so…
schalk’s brave decision to go for the line out… which lead to the game winning try and conversion…
is not an exhibition of
leadership…
accessing the game situation…
self-belief and
trusting the players around you to deliver…??
but let’s drop the guy because he’s not a good captain…???
12 Sep 2011, 15:44 pm
@BuckT(BuckTrendy)-429:
thanks Trendy…
12 Sep 2011, 15:44 pm
@UFO
Naka was certain that it was Schalk who took over the captaincy when the question was posed to a panel consisting of him, Hennie le Roux and Lawrence Sephaka on a rugby show on SABC last night.
I thought maybe he had some inside info from the Cheetah player over there.
12 Sep 2011, 15:44 pm
@nama1(nama1)-420:
opvok is OPFOK
Moenie my pa se taal so opfok nie.
12 Sep 2011, 15:45 pm
@nama1(nama1)-419: thanks, was the first place i looked and got nothing, or else i am not using it properly which is a possibility.
12 Sep 2011, 15:45 pm
@nama1(nama1)-424: so what you say now lama nama?
is there place and space for the zeffer now? yes!
12 Sep 2011, 15:46 pm
as the only captain of a s15 side still on the field i would’ve thought he’d be given the reins…
12 Sep 2011, 15:47 pm
i think after that performance it’s time to panic. If Wales beat Samoa and we lose to Samoa without a bonus point, we could still finish 3rd in the pool, obviously depending on how the other matches go. Losing from now on in is not an option and sanity must prevail!
12 Sep 2011, 15:48 pm
So tell me if I’m going bonkers when I read this and interpret it as thought the Boks lost heavily:
‘Wales were outstanding. Let’s start there. Welsh coach Warren Gatland tactically got everything right against the Boks. They kept the ball, kept it close, used the powerful Jamie Roberts to run at Morne Steyn all match and played the field percentages almost to perfection.”
If that was so then we should have been given a hiding to nothing. What Wales did was not extraordinary or outstanding they just did what was needed to try and outbattle the Bokke, target their weakest channel with their strongest runner, keep hold of possession (by however means possible) and play the game in the Bokke half. What did it get them, 1 try. No don’t come and tell me that had it not been for the kicks Wales would have won because in my opinion Barnes kept them on the front foot with some of his interpretations of the breakdown.
If there is anything we need to learn as a nation its that the old Calvinist thought process which suggests that the way I interpret things is right even if the ref thinks another way does not work on a rugby field. We have to learn that the ref is the “law” on the field of play and no matter how much you think you are justified in your interpretation of the rules you have to live by his rules on the field of play. We were giving Wales 1,5 to 2 metres at every ruck by being right behind the last mans feet when Wales were in line with the legs or bodies. Why did we not cotton onto it?
12 Sep 2011, 15:50 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-439: And you have to try and influence how he interprets the rules as well.
12 Sep 2011, 15:51 pm
@ufo(ufo)-399:
Bear with them,
Maybe they can’t count, let alone scribble the stats on the go as watching
Or
Might be it’s just a campaign to get Chili to play?
12 Sep 2011, 15:51 pm
FDP not nearly as bad as everyone makes out. semi decent in fact.
he took alot of ddogy balls from the forwards. other players/ 9′s would’ve been caught in posession. or knocked it. was there at base of scrum when needed. generally he had no kakker game than any of the other boks.
12 Sep 2011, 15:51 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-439:
It was frustrating – I found myself shouting many a time “where’s the bloody support!” as one of our players managed to cross the advantage line in contact, only to be faced with three or four Welsh ruck attendants and being driven back as they tried to place the ball.
12 Sep 2011, 15:54 pm
this welsh team also beat england two three weeks earlier
12 Sep 2011, 15:55 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-421:
In many ways, a scrumhalf is only as good as the quality of ruck ball in front of him.
And we did struggle to obtain and protect quick ruck ball on the offense due to the spoiling strategies of the Welsh.
I actually thought FDP was ok on Sunday, but we will always judge him against what he has done before, and therefore a 70% performance will not cut the mustart for a Bok supporter.
He is still a better bet than either Pienaar or Hougaard, IMO – not only as an individual in the position, but also as a player who installs confidence around him.
I have always been concerned about Spies, but to be brutally honest I think he is our best bet at current. His man-on-man defense is suspect, but he has always been good at assisting the tackle, but we should certainly expect more from him on the cover defense. Alberts will not have the same impact in the starting 15 than he does from the bench (and the same goes for Hougaard). Alberts, from the bench, can win us this WC.
12 Sep 2011, 15:56 pm
at least it’s not this bad!
Springbok squad for World Cup
2003-08-30 18:27
line
Pretoraia – The 30-man Springbok rugby squad announced by coach Rudolf Straeuli for the 2003 Rugby World Cup in Australia starting in October:
Springbok squad:
Backs: De Wet Barry (Western Province), Gcobani Bobo (Lions), Thinus Delport (Falcons), Neil de Kock (Western Province), Jaque Fourie (Lions), Werner Greeff (Western Province), Derick Hougaard (Bulls), Louis Koen (Lions), Ricardo Loubscher (Sharks), Jorrie Muller (Lions), Breyton Paulse (Western Province), Stefan Terblanche (Sharks), Joost van der Westhuizen (Bulls), Ashwin Willemse (Lions).
Forwards: Richard Bands (Bulls), Christo Bezuidenhout (Pumas), Selborne Boome (Western Province), Bakkies Botha (Bulls), Schalk Burger (Western Province), Danie Coetzee (Bulls), Corne Krige (Western Province, captain), Victor Matfield (Bulls), Faan Rautenbach (Western Province), Danie Rossouw (Bulls), Dale Santon (SWD Eagles), Hendro Scholtz (Free State Cheetahs), Juan Smith (Free State Cheetahs), John Smit (Sharks), Lawrence Sephaka (Lions) and Joe van Niekerk (Lions).
Springbok World Cup Management
Head Coach: Rudolf Straeuli
Manager: Gideon Sam
Assistant coaches: Rudi Joubert, Ray Mordt and Gert Smal.
Conditioning coach: Kevin Stevenson Support staff
Logistics Manager: Mac Hendricks
Communications Manager: Mark Keohane
Baggage Master: Philip Malakoane
Medical staff team doctor: Dr Uli Schmidt
Physiotherapists: Matime Diali and Clint Readhead.
12 Sep 2011, 15:59 pm
@shooter(shooter)-442: FdP was rubbish in PE and now yesterday…can’t keep shielding him mate
12 Sep 2011, 16:00 pm
@trupisero(trupisero)-427:
;:lol:
Well, if Tackler/ET can do it for English, I can do it for Afrikaans.
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-434:
Hahahaha.
Jy spreek die V-klank uit as ‘n F-klank in sommige woorde in Afrikaans. Ander voorbeeld sal wees Vrou instede van Frou.
So VOK is ook aanvaarbaar.
12 Sep 2011, 16:00 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-434:
Slim Jan is toe nie so slim nie.
12 Sep 2011, 16:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-428: You cannot veer away from your tried and test game plan A for a non-existent plan B purely because you got a lucky try through ball in hand that would truly be the height of insanity. Only the boks know what has made them favourite’s for the cup, when they whisper they’ll tell you the truth, we don’t have any business whatsoever passing the ball down the backline, if you’ve observed us over 4 years have you ever seen us display a structure move or a twitch of flair, no we don’t do that. Speak to the Aura he’ll tell you, he was as surprised as you were, transie, were when the boks scored two tries, it was frightening for the boks!
12 Sep 2011, 16:03 pm
@nama1(nama1)-448:
Vra verskoning bro. NOU.
12 Sep 2011, 16:07 pm
At the end of the day one has to feel sorry for Wales, they have planned for this match for two years and gave 120% … only to lose to a team playing at 30%
12 Sep 2011, 16:07 pm
@willievz(willievz)-445: FDP was good, we are too used to him being awesome. He is obviously not at his best, but def the right man for the job. Pienaar should not be in NZ … do NOT let him on the field, he farks up the little game plan we have, he’s only good for micky-mouse games.
12 Sep 2011, 16:12 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-447: what was so rubbish?
average yes. but not that bad.
probably not acceptable for a bok to be average. but on the day he was average.
yes PE he was not great. i agree there.
i’m not shielding anyone. how can i do that.
what should he have done remarkably different?
12 Sep 2011, 16:26 pm
What a load of tosh, whos wrote this article. The next tough 80mins will be against Ire. After that performance I wont be surprised if Figi to the business against the boks. It should not happen in a million years and believe me PDV and his 2 blind mice will be thinking the same thing and will then put in his B team what ever that is, as the A team on Sunday was awful. The only boks the deserve to be there are
BDP
Alberts
Brussow
Burger
F steyn
Fourie
Hougart
Matfield – but needs game time
FDP – needs serious reality check and put cracker up his ***, believe me he will be hurting after that perfomance on Sun. If the start Smit or play Smit we are in trouble sorry to say, He has been a rock for SA and by far the best captain ever, but he must know when to sit out and say come on boys, I cant win the WC for you BDP should and has to be the first choice. Think Steenkamp should start before Beast, he just has more urgency to him and hits the rucks. Was impressed with Muller as a sub he was not as bad as I thought he would be. But Play lambie as FH against Figi let see what he can do with a good Bok team, We saw glimmers in Nz on the away game, but that was with 4th team boks side. So give him chance to shine. We have nothing to lose – we can go back to yawn Steyn,, or James
12 Sep 2011, 16:28 pm
@shooter(shooter)-436:
If you remember correctly, I was dead set against THE WAY that he was included as 2nd SH on the 2009 EOYT. That after he only played a few matches in that position as he played mostly on the wing for the Bulls.
He is a cert for the match 22 in my book. You would’ve noticed that I’ve always included him in the teams that I posted.
12 Sep 2011, 16:32 pm
@BuckT(BuckTrendy)-446:
…and now Mark Keohane and Gideon Sam have joined hands again at SASCOC.
Ry daai soustrein.
@Ethel(Ethel)-451:
Waarvoor?
12 Sep 2011, 16:37 pm
@nama1(nama1)-456: yes. true.
you will also note that i have kept score between you and another blogger:
nama1 – hond0
12 Sep 2011, 16:41 pm
Team for Fiji:
1 Steenkamp
2 Du Plessis
3 Du Plessis
4 Roussouw
5 Muller
6 Brussouw
7 Burger
8 Alberts
9 Du Preez
10 James
11 Hougaard
12 De Jongh
13 Fourie
14 Aplon
15 Steyn
16 Van Der Linde
17 Smit
18 mTwarira
19 Louw
20 Spies
21 Pienaar
22 Lambie
Early substitution for Jannie and Brussouw and Roussouw.
Alberts moves to 2nd row when Louw and Spies comes on.
Smit get can 5 minutes at the end.
Others as needed.
12 Sep 2011, 16:42 pm
@shooter(shooter)-458:
Good one.
12 Sep 2011, 16:46 pm
Fair article Keo. Give credit where credit is due, this performance by Wales was probably their best effort since the Gareth Edwards / Phil Bennett era. And they still lost. Means we still have room to improve, can they repeat this 7 games in a row.
We still have room to peak, AB’s peaked during the Tri-Nations and Aussies peaking now with 6 to go. Who is in the right place at the right time??
PS – Nice to see that minnows have improved.
12 Sep 2011, 16:48 pm
Wellington – Springbok hooker Bismarck du Plessis provides something different to the other two lineout throwers in the squad, head coach Peter de Villiers said on Monday.
Du Plessis started off the bench in South Africa’s 17-16 win over Wales in their Rugby World Cup opener on Sunday.
De Villiers, however, said his solid performance had not earned Du Plessis a place in the starting line-up, with John Smit and Chiliboy Ralepelle providing something different.
All the players in his squad, De Villiers said, were expected to know their roles, and would be used accordingly.
“If you look how comfortable Wales was against that starting line-up, and when we brought up that bench, what a hell of a difference they made,” De Villiers said.
“I think that is the way to go, if you can have something up your sleeve.
“If you don’t have that you become as ordinary as anyone else.”
The debate around the inclusion of South Africa’s long serving captain, Smit, ahead of Du Plessis, had been taxing for the Bok coach in the build-up to the tournament.
(news24)
12 Sep 2011, 16:53 pm
Gunther, G10 and Steggies (Agyle_Titman) are missed here. Any idea where they are?
12 Sep 2011, 17:02 pm
Vok fok moer donner ….
All the same to me.
12 Sep 2011, 17:04 pm
Dunno why everyone is crowing over a 1 point win.
Pathetic it was.
12 Sep 2011, 17:04 pm
Dunno why everyone is crowing over a 1 point win.
Pathetic it was…
12 Sep 2011, 17:05 pm
@ Nama1, G10 is in namibia, learning more about his team. Steggiess is injured so he can’t type
12 Sep 2011, 17:05 pm
been busy today, whats been happening on keo? did i miss anything?
12 Sep 2011, 17:06 pm
Oops sorry! BB fail!
12 Sep 2011, 17:07 pm
@Maljan(Maljan)-461:
The sad thing is that Wales will probably still come unstuck against the Islanders and might not make the qrts
12 Sep 2011, 17:12 pm
Helen. You really think wales will come unstuck after the way they moered us yesterday.
12 Sep 2011, 17:13 pm
From the weekend’s games, I can say:
Arg will fit right into the 4 Nations. Give them one or two seasons and they’ll be real contenders.
Fra can be sublime and vrot in the same game as always.
Ireland might not have the fire power of the last 2 RWC’s.
Japan will become the darlings of world rugby if they continue like this.
USA play a structured game that could compete with 1st tier nations if given more opportunities.
England have a big game waiting and have the necessary big guns to cause an upset or two.
Kiwis have lost their killer instinct of a few years ago. The 2008 team would have put another 30 points past the Tongans once the tide swung in their favour
12 Sep 2011, 17:13 pm
Rugby365′s team of the week, World cup round 1:
Team of the Week – Part One:
15 – Kurtley Beale (Australia):
It was a toss-up between two of the most exciting runners in the game at present, with our vote eventually going to the Wallaby, if only because his team’s opposition was somewhat better.
Bubbling under: Israel Dagg (New Zealand)
14 – Richard Kahui (New Zealand):
He provided Graham Henry with a few (pleasant) selection headaches.
Bubbling under: Vereniki Goneva (Fiji)
13 – Aurelien Rougerie (France):
There were a number of players who put their hands up, but he made the most crucial breaks in a game that had the potential to be the weekend’s biggest upset.
Bubbling under: Paul Emerick (United States)
12 – Sonny Bill Williams (New Zealand):
His mistakes aside, he managed to create two tries for his team and earned enough votes in a congested midfield battle.
Bubbling under: Jamie Roberts (Wales)
11 – Digby Ioane (Australia):
Australia will miss him in the games to come, following his fractured thumb he suffered in another stand-out performance against a willing Italian team.
Bubbling under: Francois Hougaard (South Africa)
10 – James Arlidge (Japan):
Some players make an impact coming off the bench. He not only started the game, but almost single-handedly upset the French in an eight-try thriller.
Bubbling under: Quade Cooper (Australia)
9 – Ben Youngs (England):
There is no doubt his 31 minutes on the field dramatically swung the match in favour of England. He should be starting, not coming off the bench.
Bubbling under: Will Genia (Australia)
8 – Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (Argentina):
At times it looked almost as if he was waging a lone war against the brutal English forwards. His bravery kept the Pumas in the game right to the end.
Bubbling under: Toby Faletau (Wales)
7 – Sam Warburton (Wales):
He certainly showed that Warren Gatland’s pre-match talk was not just hype. He lived up to the expectations.
Bubbling under: Imanol Harinordoquy (France)
6 – Jerome Kaino (New Zealand):
He is invaluable to the Kiwi cause and his physical presence is what will allow the other loose forwards to play a free-roaming game.
Bubbling under: Heinrich Brüssow (South Africa)
5 – James Horwill (Australia):
On a weekend that produced numerous stand-out performances in the second row, Horwill was in a class of his own – a calm demeanour that helped the Wallabies overpower the Italians in the second half.
Bubbling under: Paul O’Connell (Ireland)
4 – Leone Nakarawa (Fiji):
He proved that it is not just the major contenders that have quality tight forwards. And, true to Fijian tradition, he also runs around like a wing.
Bubbling under: Valentin Ursache (Romania)
3 – Martin Castrogiovanni (Italy):
The grizzled veteran kept the Italian scrum under pressure and gets around the field better than most other tight forwards his age.
Bubbling under: Dan Cole (England)
2 – Bismarck du Plessis (South Africa):
He certainly strengthened the argument of a growing chorus of voices calling for him to start.
Bubbling under: Mario Ledesma (Argentina)
1 – Alisona Taumalolo (Tonga):
There was a delightful period of 120 minutes in the final quarter, when Tonga laid siege to the All Black line, that summed up all that was good about minnows like Tonga. And Taumalolo was at the centre of it all, eventually scoring the try.
Bubbling under: Andrea Lo Cicero (Italy)
12 Sep 2011, 17:14 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-471:
Ja, I do.
The psycological punishment they’re feeling now after playing so well and then still losing, will do them no favours.
Also, they looked vulnerable for 5 minutes in the game when we ran at them. The Islanders will test their defense more than we did
12 Sep 2011, 17:18 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-473:
only 1 Bok in that team!!!!
I think the likes of F Steyn and F Hougaard will still make that team in weeks to come. Brussouw is incorrectly utilised, so won’t be the stealer we knnow him to be.
12 Sep 2011, 17:19 pm
@nama1(nama1)-462: welp
12 Sep 2011, 17:31 pm
If seems like the popular perception is that Wales played at 100% or more of their ability and South Africa at 50% but what happens if that is not true and that was SA at its best. I think we all have in our minds eye how well guys like Matfield, Burger, FDP, Jacque Fourie, Bakkies,Danie Roussow etc can perform and we feel that once they start to turn it on we will be a real force in the tournament. Yet if you look at the bok performances since ’09 there is little to suggest they have it left in them to consistently perform at their previous levels. If the seeded teams go through as expected I cannot see the boks beating Ireland in the quarters the All Blacks in the semis and Australia in the final. I think this bok team maybe has one huge game left in them but to win three tough ones I have my doubts. To win the World Cup also takes some luck though and it is not impossible for results to go your way. All the teams in this competition have weaknesses and unlike Keo I do not think it is impossible for an N Hemisphere side to win this thing. Australia struggled in certain areas against Italy particularly in the scrums. Both England and France have strong scrums and could give the Aussies nightmares in this dept and pressure Cooper out of the game and upset them. England may fall to Scotland in the pool stages (the Scots often give England a tough time) and then the English may surprise the stressed out All Blacks. Anything is possible.
12 Sep 2011, 17:37 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-450: you are sound delusional by the second, i think your obsession to run away from your All Blacks being favourites is getting the better of you.
The Boks scored 2 tries @ Twickenham last year breaking the back of an English team who were feeling themselves after moering the aussies.
what was the gameplan that day?
12 Sep 2011, 17:39 pm
@shooter(shooter)-454: FdP’s 2 past performances were Ricky Januarie-esque!
8)
12 Sep 2011, 17:45 pm
At last, a sensible article. Perhaps coach de Villiers should be personally informed in which event he just might take notice and act accordingly.
12 Sep 2011, 17:49 pm
@Malcolm 477: I predict an Eng SA final, with England beating us. We will come up against NZ, after they hammered Scotland or Arg and then at some stage they will be behind the Boks in the semi and the choker curse will take over. Aus on the other hand will play their bogey team and with Robinson injured they are not favourites. England will then take revenge against the Boks, who have had the measure of them since 2006, but they have all the strengths to beat the Boks after they have played their Final against the ABs.
For all of those that says Ireland will beat the Boks. Would we have felt better with a 1 point win against Wales or a 12 point win against USA?
12 Sep 2011, 18:13 pm
@Horings(Horings)-481: I also think England have a shot at making the final again. Their big test may be France in the quarters and not Australia in the semis. I still think Ireland could be a threat to us although they are short on confidence. The USA game was played in terrible weather for the most part and Ireland butchered at least 2 more tries. The USA scored an interception in injury time to make the score respectable but Ireland were probably 20 points better on the night.
I think we are going to have to come to terms with the fact that we are going to play with 50% or less possession against the teams we meet in the knock out stages and that because of this our kick and chase stragedy will not work. We need to take some risks this is the backline I would choose:-)
15 Lambie
14 Spies
13 Fourie
12 F.Steyn
11 Aplon
10 James
9Hougard
12 Sep 2011, 18:17 pm
Mark – you cannot ask questions without giving answers – Bismarck is obvious – but – who for no. 10? I would suggest The Butcher/Lambie combination according to match/match situation.
12 Sep 2011, 18:18 pm
Have to say, people still defending Spies need to take off their blue tinted glasses. A couple of half decent games over the last 2 years is simply not good enough, and completely disappearing when the going gets tough is the norm with him. Well things aren’t going to get any easier for the Boks when the big games come, so how can we be expected to carry this show pony through the knockouts?
Alberts to start please. Brussow, Schalk & Alberts at least bring phyciality to the team. Spies off the bench in the last 20 is the maximum input he should be getting and hopefully he can make some sort of impact.
As for Bismark not starting, well maybe they’ll make a move about this campaign too one day. Invictus II – The Farce. It is beyond ridiculous, but hey when you have an ignorant pig-headed coach who bends over backwards for his favourites what can you expect. If we stick with Spies and Smit starting we have no chance of lifting the trophy.
12 Sep 2011, 18:31 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-430:
did DeJong play flyhalf against the welsh in cardiff last year?
thought it was Morne Steyn?
12 Sep 2011, 18:49 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-485: if you were deiberately being moronic, congratulations
12 Sep 2011, 18:49 pm
I said it in a previous post, but the fact of the matter is that we will not get any ball at the back of the lineout if Spies does not play. He is very good at lineouts and should play while Victor, Juan and Bakkies is not playing. And I do have blue tinted glasses, but if a guy such as Elstadt was groomed earlier into a nr 7 flanker then I would have played Burger, Elstadt and Brussow, but the Boks need one of their loosies to be a good lineout jumper. It is such a big part of our gameplan.
12 Sep 2011, 18:49 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-485: if you were deliberately being moronic, congratulations
12 Sep 2011, 18:54 pm
Churchill sept saying during WW II, speaking of a German warship : “the Bismarck must be destroyed”. Seems like it’s PDivvy’s motto too… Come on, man, leave lardarse to polish the bench ?
12 Sep 2011, 18:55 pm
Churchill sept saying during WW II, speaking of a German warship : “the Bismarck must be destroyed”. Seems like it’s PDivvy’s motto too… Come on, man, leave lardarse to polish the bench ?
12 Sep 2011, 18:56 pm
Churchill kept saying during WW II, speaking of a German warship : “the Bismarck must be destroyed”. Seems like it’s PDivvy’s motto too… Come on, man, leave lard.arse to polish the bench ?
12 Sep 2011, 18:57 pm
Churchill kept saying during WW II, speaking of a German warship : “the Bismarck must be destroyed”. Seems like it’s PDivvy’s motto too… Come on, man, leave Smit to polish the bench !!!
12 Sep 2011, 19:03 pm
F**king mobile version
Sorry, mates
12 Sep 2011, 19:16 pm
More hits for keo!
He should thank you!
12 Sep 2011, 19:25 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-439: Farken good post!
12 Sep 2011, 19:28 pm
@Maljan(Maljan)-461: Good point. But this assumes Dippy and the other two idjits know what they are doing… Angazi this.
12 Sep 2011, 19:40 pm
@Horings(Horings)-487:
He never took a single linout ball for the 56 minutes he was on the park. But yeah let’s put up with his p*sspoor play just in case we need some tail ball at some stage of the game. I am pretty sure Schalk can work the tail of the lineout just as well as Spies and he at least brings 150% more to the game than the pretender
Take off those blue glasses and try judging players without the provincial bias!
12 Sep 2011, 20:03 pm
@Horings(Horings)-487: And I gues Alberts, who can cover for lock, would be a terrible replacement at the back of the lineout then?
The Pierre love here is quite bewildering to be honest.
12 Sep 2011, 20:18 pm
I don’t know how the Bok’s coaching staff felt but I was pretty wound up. I really thought they had stuffed up and blown their first Match. Some one needs to remind them that it’s an 80minute game. The Boks played a brilliant first 10 then lost the plot for the next 50 minutes. They had to work like crazy to scratch a one point win. They never gave the Welsh men the respect they deserved. We have Hooks failure to thank for our win. Be careful of wild Islanders, Fiji and Samoa! We have a few sore player now, we know how those guys play. They have seen the Boks struggle we can expect two very hard games.
What a difference when Bismark and Alberts and Hougard came on. John Smit has been a great servant of SA rugby but it’s time to call it a day at international level. Its no wonder he’s off the pace, he has been screwed around so much, one time bulking up to play prop and then expected to just slip back into the number two slot. Our Half back pair did not cover themselves in glory either, it time to wake up: Get a grip coachs, we want to keep that bit of shiny metal in South Africa.
12 Sep 2011, 20:19 pm
I want it on record that I said it first… and I was a teenage girl who knew nothing about rugby
12 Sep 2011, 20:21 pm
@SpringbokSarah(SpringbokSarah)-500: What is it that you said first?
12 Sep 2011, 20:22 pm
Man that Jacques Burger is fugly, hell are all Burgers as fugly as this Burger and Schalk?
12 Sep 2011, 20:23 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-91:
how many times did F.Steyn* get the Boks out of the doo-doo with his booming punt returns ? and yet you want to put him at 12 ?! And if the Boks keep inviting the opposition to keep attacking like they did vs Wales, who would you rather want as your last line of defence ?
(* Im missing the days of The Hoff already)
12 Sep 2011, 20:30 pm
KIWI TROLL ALERT!
12 Sep 2011, 20:31 pm
@Helen(Helen)-101: Yebo! sense at last!
12 Sep 2011, 20:34 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-115: Same old – same old mond-drolle! When’re going to give up poepol!
12 Sep 2011, 20:45 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-501: referring to the title
12 Sep 2011, 20:46 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-503: kiwi troll, best you tell your convict cousins to prepare to be dumped out of the RWC by the dragons … you heard it here first … the dragons to moer the convicts.
12 Sep 2011, 20:53 pm
@RL(RL)-508:
A poll in NZ before the RWC asked which team most people did NOT want to win.
It wasnt your team, Ladies. It was Australia, by a considerable distance. And Engl next.
I know it works well for y’all to think Kiwis hate Safas as much as Safas hate Kiwis, but if the Taffs knock out the Convicts then you’ll hear the cheers in Capetown.
12 Sep 2011, 20:54 pm
@SpringbokSarah(SpringbokSarah)-507: K. Gotcha.
12 Sep 2011, 21:00 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-509: actually troll you will find that Saffas would generally prefer to see NZ win an ordinary rugby match over Australia and England. You see, dislike for Australia and England is universal.
Nothing special there, raise your game troll.
12 Sep 2011, 21:01 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-503: Um, let’s see. He helped us to a World Cup title at 12. But I don’t expect you to understand what that means. You kind of had to be there.
12 Sep 2011, 21:02 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-509: CapeSaders and CapeCanes will light those fireworks and celebrate like it’s 1987 if the dragons knock the convicts, that’s a given.
12 Sep 2011, 21:03 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-511:
then why arent you directing your silly girly little comments at your countryman who raised the point, nanny-goat ?
12 Sep 2011, 21:05 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-514: because you’re a troll and they are not.
Get it?
Raise your game, troll.
12 Sep 2011, 21:05 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-512:
Um
I was ‘kinda there’, Katman.
In Paris.
In Stade de France.
Cheering your team to victory.
12 Sep 2011, 21:07 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-515:
gee
after all these years
Ive finally met my match.
The Spoon has stirred and now here comes the porridge.
………~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
12 Sep 2011, 21:08 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-514: now why you hating on girls now
You people are far too uptight… I recommend yoga… or chocolate
12 Sep 2011, 21:08 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-516: You know that’s not what I mean. You know exactly what I mean.
And besides, that doesn’t explain why you wouldn’t want to play him at his best position.
And, in case you haven’t seen him boot a ball, Aplon has a pretty decent punt himself.
12 Sep 2011, 21:09 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-517: LUCKY!!!!
12 Sep 2011, 21:09 pm
Whatsgoingonhere
12 Sep 2011, 21:10 pm
Check out Panty taking the high ground now…
As if.
12 Sep 2011, 21:10 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-521: callingpantyoutforbeingatrollandheiscallingmeagirlnothingnew.
12 Sep 2011, 21:15 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-509: don’t think that’s entirely accurate BP. It might be your version but on the ground here (under the mountain) there is considerable support and admiration for the Kiwis. From all quarters.
12 Sep 2011, 21:17 pm
damn and damn again. Running low on battery. Bad planning.
12 Sep 2011, 21:23 pm
and Spooner is right. Saffers will back the AB’s against Oz and Pom any day of any week. That’s pretty much guaranteed from the dyed in the wool Bok supporter, regardless of the underdog status of the latter two.
12 Sep 2011, 21:23 pm
Morgue time
12 Sep 2011, 21:24 pm
So we all in agreement then!
12 Sep 2011, 21:27 pm
So much for inspirational leadership. When our big inspiration was eventually replaced, the team immediately started to play truely inspired rugby. Suddenly aweful (Smit) became awesome (Bissie). Just think what would have happened if Bismarck, Willem Alberts (for Spies) and Hougaardt (for Du Preez) started the game. If Smit calls him self a true leader, he should do the honorable thing and retire immediately.
12 Sep 2011, 21:28 pm
I’d like to see Lambie start at 15 with Steyn moved to 12, against Fiji. Aplon on the bench and given a decent run of 20 mins. A 4:3 bench with either one of Habs or Hougardt to start and finish. We need to get some attacking moves under the belt.
Ag stuff it, there goes my power. Cheers oaks.
12 Sep 2011, 21:36 pm
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-524: come on chaps, allow Panty to expose his persecution complex. saffas hate kiwis, that’s why you find 3000 member DEEP All Blacks supporters clubs and Transkeians like MPUNDULU who grew up in households where his mom would frown if he turned a Bok supporter
12 Sep 2011, 21:41 pm
I’d play Habana and Smit and Spies against Fiji and Samoa. I’d rather protect Hougaard and Biz by bringing them on for the last 30 min during the pool matches against the islands.
12 Sep 2011, 21:45 pm
@garth(garth)-532: oh. are u banking on one of those islanders doing the business that grant10 failed to do in durban.
12 Sep 2011, 21:46 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-531: Tell his mom to go for Botox and get over it.
12 Sep 2011, 21:50 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-519:
Ha – didnt see that one comin, did ya ?!
IMO (I still dont get the need for this, on a blog, however….), The Off (thats the Hoff with an H-cut) is, by far, SA’s best bet at 15. Massive defensive player, massive boot. If he’s at 12, you only get half his best attributes (defense) and then you have to endure his poor distribution.
Why would you want Aplon at 15 when the Bok gameplan is kick’n'chase and playing-for-territory ? He’s a good player, better suited for wing at Test level.
12 Sep 2011, 21:58 pm
@raven(raven)-506: poor ravenous imbecile keeps getting drawn to my posts like an iron filing to a magnet, or is it like a fly to a sh’theap.. what you so drawn to dumbass sounds like you need an education or some enlightenment to get you out the droll of a dwang you occupying … daily
you wouldn’t understand you either too young or else just too thick.. like those others that keep needing a smack to their overrated ego looks like yours might be up next
12 Sep 2011, 22:11 pm
So its eventually come around full circle.. even THE most ardent Smit, FdP and Spies hero worshipers are slowly but surely seeing the light… one little incy wincy step at a time… we wouldn’t want to blind them with too much sight all at once they might just faint with the full blast of the realization blowing their brains apart if they had to encompass all of that realization all at once… But it has slowly but surely dawned on them that had we NOT started with Smit, Spies and FdP on Saturday we might very well NOT have been so close to disaster at the 11th hour when the true saviors of the day and of the entire WC campaign.. Bismark, Alberts and Hougaard actually saved their overrated arses… and the rest of the nation to boot.
12 Sep 2011, 22:29 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-535:
Its kinda like kissing your sister when the Panther makes sense…. takes all the fun out of it
12 Sep 2011, 22:30 pm
From Jake white:
Jake White looks at the Boks’ win over Wales and says that type of performance won’t win them the World Cup.
Firstly, it was really hard watching the Springboks play after putting the core of that side together for four years and watching 17 of those players out there in what should be the pinnacle of their carreers.
To adapt Peter de Villiers’s quote after the Boks played Australia in Durban, the Boks lost this match everywhere except on the scoreboard. The scoreboard is all that counts after all, but the Boks shouldn’t be content with the way they won.
The main retort for the quality of the performance is that a ‘win is a win’, but we’ve got to understand what went wrong if we’re to have a decent shot at retaining the title. Winning is what it’s all about, but that showing in Wellington is not the benchmark for winning a World Cup.
Everyone is quick to compare the Boks now to 2007, but in our opening game we got the bonus point against Samoa and scored 60 points. On Sunday, the Boks were lucky to win by a point.
Without sounding like a case of sour grapes and everyone says it’s being negative, but we’ve gone backwards. For such great players to accept those sort of showings is also saddening. Whatever is meant to be will be, and while the win will build confidence, those players that have won the World Cup and who know what it takes to do it, will realise in their hearts that those types of performances won’t be good enough. No team wins a World Cup playing like that.
The impact the bench made was incredible, and that’s because it’s a very strong bench. Bismarck du Plessis and Francois Hougaard were unbelievable, while having the ability to call on Butch James – a World Cup-winning 10 – is not something many teams can do. But many have short memories, and while Hougaard was the hero, it could have been very different if his running from deep with Fourie du Preez late in the match had cost them, if Jame Hook had kicked over the penalty. That wasn’t very clever rugby from the Boks.
It was also strange why CJ van der Linde wasn’t used at all if it was so important to have a 5-2 split.
The bench did their job and while some have called for them to start, but if you swap it around, will you get the same impact from the other guys who started? The bench has long been a debate in rugby, and there are many pros and cons to it.
With regards to the injuries, the coaching staff will try keep Bakkies Botha there as long as possible. They’ll hope all the senior players recover for the knockouts and will play them as much as possible then.
I can’t see the Boks losing to any other sides in their pool, starting with Fiji on Saturday. The Pacific sides will push them, but don’t have too much to offer and the Boks should see them off. However, the way we’re playing, there’s a very real chance we could lose to Ireland in the quarters.
12 Sep 2011, 22:30 pm
@Bod(bod)-538:
Fortunately, it doesnt happen too often..
12 Sep 2011, 22:42 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-531: Lol
12 Sep 2011, 23:02 pm
Grant Ball, Keo’s ex-bum chum, on rugbyxv.co.za:
Ian Jones and Stuart Barnes offered some great insights and no-holds-barred analysis in their short stints on South African TV, as they do when on Sky New Zealand – informing the public and giving different opinions. But De Villiers and Saru apparently told SuperSport they’re not allowed to use the third member of the triumvirate, former coach Jake White, as an analyst
That the Bok coach decides who can and who can’t analyse the Boks’ sub-standard showings emphasises his insecurities and indicates why we have to listen to commentators and studio guests repeatedly blame refereeing decisions for the poor performances, glossing over the Boks’ weaknesses.
The sooner the public and coaches acknowledge the problems in the Bok set-up, the more chance the Boks have of doing what has never been done before – winning successive World Cups.
12 Sep 2011, 23:08 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-539: You probably don’t need a WC champion’s medal to figure out that based on Sunday’s game the Boks won’t get anywhere near the title this year.
Our coaching trio doesn’t have the balls to drop the deadwood in this side. Simple as that. It’s a bit like your best friend working with you for 4 years and then a few months before retirement you have to fire him from his post because he has been fkcen useless at his job for the last couple of years.
12 Sep 2011, 23:22 pm
@kwas(kwas)-543: Sure the boks stumbled a bit against wales but that’s merely because they changed their game plan. They’d have learnt from that and will be far more direct in their next games. They are still favourite’s in my book!
12 Sep 2011, 23:27 pm
The skunk White trying to blow up his own arse with his own ram horn again while prissily satisfying himself with feathering his own fanny .. piece of garbage schmuck if ever there was one… just for his prissy sissified remarks I hope Boks take it and shove his glorious ego where it fits best up that prissy arsed ransacked backside of his …
As if he would have beaten that Wales side 4 years ago.. when he almost got taken to the cleaners by Connaught, then Tonga and Fiji … he NEVER met any team ranked higher than 6 which was Argentina 4 years ago and his record vs NZ was woefully pitiful to say the very least… Dumb deluded ignorant f’ng arrogant second grade schmuck of all pisswilly self aggrandized schmucks..
12 Sep 2011, 23:30 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-534: Well that’d be quiet an ask!
12 Sep 2011, 23:34 pm
mpundulu gett off it man, new zealand wins by 30 pts and the boks scrape through by the skin of their teeth and you’re still mumbling inanities about us being favourites. Nc nc nc
uyayazi ukuba nini man omakhwekhwetha, ongqaaaaaa phambili
12 Sep 2011, 23:44 pm
Spies anonymous, yes as used. He should be a late sub a la Bobby. But whadabout JPP? Missed a simple tackle against the touchline vs Shane. Did nothing else. His lack of defense is sure to cost us one day. As for the big build up to our first try, better tackle assist from Hook woulda had Frans bundled out. Apart from using up all our luck already we should be AIMING at much better than this. Oh and f*** White and his dull style of play let alone his present petulance.
12 Sep 2011, 23:44 pm
Play Aplon and Hougaardt on wing
Spies cannot start with Smit
So play Alberts with Smit
Or play Bissmark with Spies
Spies is in my opinion a hard surface player and has always struggled in soft under foot conditions
12 Sep 2011, 23:44 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-547: The boks in ’07 stumbled against Connaught, no one with all his senses gave them a hope, they argued with tonga and nearly got pipped by Fiji. The boks love living on the edge. They are the favorites whether you like it or not!
Ezintwana zenkamnkam amabokoboko bazakunya kule ndebe yehlabhati! Hehehehehehe.
12 Sep 2011, 23:46 pm
@Bod(bod)-538:
*burp*
I just swallowed a nanny-goat.
12 Sep 2011, 23:46 pm
@JL1(JL1)-549: In fact, bench Spies
Play F Steyn at fullback
Muller actually impressed me, I take back what I said about him, only for now though
13 Sep 2011, 00:00 am
Transie: have you noticed that Ted and smithy have moved away from out and out wings to ball players. Rococoko, sivivatu, gear and the young cantabrian, against tonga SBW in broken play appeared on the wing a few times. The wisemen are up to some tricks, what do you think their motivation is?
13 Sep 2011, 00:02 am
Just watched the last quarter of that game again where we came back from the dead.. That was gutsy rugby if ever there was such a commodity of everyone pulling for the cause it was there, from every single Bok on the park.. and it weren’t the Boks who choked at the death it was Wales who’s tales had been up the previous half hour prior to Bismark, Alberts and Hougaard putting them to the sword.
White can go fly his kite in Canberra… his ship has long sailed and he got fck’all to do with this team.. its long gone out his grasp even though his big fat dandy ego don’t wanna know the reality of the score…
And whats more this team IS better than when he left… whether he or anyone else are still unable to accept or realize it..
Boks 2004-07 played NZ 9 lost 6 – some record margins
Played Aus and lost by 49 points to zero
Played Ireland twice away ; lost both times
Played France home and away lost 3 from 4
ONLY redeeming feature is they won a WC without playing ANY team rank higher than Argentina at IRB rank 6, almost losing to 14th rank Tonga and 13th rank Fiji
Wales of yesterday would have whacked White out the ground for a home run.
13 Sep 2011, 00:02 am
@SpringbokSarah(SpringbokSarah)-518:
we’re not uptight, Sarah. Its just ‘banter’, see ?
What the locals dont seem to realise is that Im here for the rivalry. I like the passion Safas bring to their rugby. They are extremely knowledgeable about rugby. Therefore you can discuss things toe-to-toe, almost like a match itself. If everyone agreed on things 100% then noone would learn anything. Why dont I “fark off to silver fern” (Kiwi-Keo equiv) like Im told here so regularly ? Well Id be farken bored with agreeing with everyone all the time. Sheee-ite, Im a lawyer (well, used to be), bl**dy argumentative types we are ! Im not on an Aussie site because, despite Kiwis having an even bigger sporting-rivalry with them, well they just dont rrrrreally KNOW rugby like Safas do. Do they ?!
But Im here to ‘argue’ about rugby. Only rugby. I dont turn up here telling Safas about SA politics. I would never say “your women are ugly…..loose”. I would never say “your wife fked a Kiwi in the toilets” and then repeat it daily for effect. Nor would i stand by and condone it thru my silence. I wouldnt say to someone that I dont know, “you are council scum and live under a bridge” either, because i hate classist BS. And if someone ‘hits’ me, well as an ex-tight fwd, I tend to hit back, but twice as hard. If bloggers here call my players “a cheat” whilst ignoring their own wee team of angels, well OF COURSE Im going to call them hypocrites. If your coach ALWAYS blames the ref in defeat but suddenly supports him in victory, well OF COURSE Im going to call him a hypocrite.
After all, theyre just meaningless words on a meaningless blog and, all said and done, every single one of us here is a saddo rugby-obsessive. Noone can rrrreally point the finger at anyone else and take the ‘Moral High Ground’. Can they ?
13 Sep 2011, 00:05 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-531:
still boxing shadows at midnight, con Trapp ?
13 Sep 2011, 00:06 am
@TASSIES(TASSIES)-524:
where were you at Gingers then ?
13 Sep 2011, 00:12 am
For Fiji
Play JPP at 15
Aplon 14
Fourie 13
JdJ 12
Habana 11
Butch 10
Hougaard 9
Spies 8
Louw 7
Brussow 6
Muller (c) 5
Alberts 4
Jannie 3
Bismark 2
Gurthro 1
Beast, Chili, CJ, Roussow, Burger, Pienaar, Frans
If Spies don’t show against Fiji. then send him home, same with Habana and JPP
rest Smit, FdP, Morne
13 Sep 2011, 00:16 am
mpundulu @ 550: bwhahaahahahhahahahahaha
13 Sep 2011, 00:24 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-555: Hahaha, seems you are playing stupid, from the looks of it, you are winning
Oh, and I never said you are scum, maybe pond life, never scum
13 Sep 2011, 00:24 am
nah Broekies, just telling fellow saffas to be courteous to a deluded kiwi
13 Sep 2011, 00:26 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-559: A
13 Sep 2011, 00:26 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-558: FDP needs the game time
I don’t believe playing Louw and Brussow in the same team helps- no lineout option
CJ also needs game time
13 Sep 2011, 00:31 am
@JL1(JL1)-560:
What makes you think I was talking about you ? Perhaps “hypocrite” was the clue.
You dont fool anyone here, other than the fools.
13 Sep 2011, 00:33 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-564: Trust me, I know
Not seen anyone else divulge your address, except me
13 Sep 2011, 00:34 am
Transie: uyayi bona le-way ndithetha ngayo? uTed no Smith ikhona lento bayicingayo. I suspect that they believe having from 10-15 players who can create and exploit space ensures more attacking opportunities across the park. Remember Ted said at the beginning of the trinations they will be showing a new brand of rugby not seen before but they’ll introduce it through the trinations and the WC.
13 Sep 2011, 00:36 am
Transie: when I put in 10-15, I meant flyhalf to full back.
13 Sep 2011, 00:51 am
Fark me but Panty is a sad case in continual self-justification. Simply put, just a kn.obber.
13 Sep 2011, 00:51 am
@554 mpundulu: who knows what’s cooking in those guys’ minds? Certainly if you lived anywhere else i the world this would not be an issue as versatility is celebrated and not frowned upon.
Francois Hougaard is a ‘ball player’, Aplon, Sadie are too…Ashley-Cooper, o’Bieber etc…
13 Sep 2011, 00:58 am
@JL1(JL1)-563: If FdP plays against Fiji he might just get crocked worse than Matfield and JdV are, and he won’t be tackling so rather don’t play him against those bruisers.
I got CJ on Bench as well as Burger and Roussouw with Spies starting… plenty of line out option especially against Fiji who are not line out compliant
I think my team for Fiji is quite right with Alberts at 4 and Spies to run in a game which suits his style and offering the line out option at back, and JdJ to shore up midfield otherwise if Morne plays we might just lose from all the tries we give away if FdP and Morne had to contest 9/10.
Louw is a better flank than Burger from both a fetching and a carrying perspective and i think a better close man on man tackler also except in open play where Burger excels but not in close play where Louw is superior to Burger.
Pienaar / Frans to manage bench with Hougaard / Butch starting 9/10 and Aplon / JPP / Habana managing back 3.
If the cannot cut it against Fiji then we in trouble because none of the others like Lambie or Morne or Ndungane would either.
13 Sep 2011, 01:07 am
the only difference is that in SA people want a player to NAIL his spot @ his province so they can have bragging rights that their province has the premier 13 or 10. Haven’t you seen the consternation when Plum shifts lambie to 12?
‘oh no, they’re messing with him this is what they did to fransie, now he will be overtook by the likes of jantjies, ebersohn for the bok jersey’
you think most kiwis care whether kahui starts @ wing?
If pdv had tried jaque @ wing, it’d be a week long debate in SA as to why a jake white built combo ‘touted to be the best in the world’ is being broken apart etc…
Conservative mindsets.
I hope heyneke meyer doesn’t indoctrinate sadie to think like a mule!
13 Sep 2011, 01:07 am
They saying here that if Matfield don’t come right then Hargreaves or Mostert are on call
It better be Mostert because if its Hargreaves then kiss Bill goodbye right now before the fanny hits the wall at the quarters..
13 Sep 2011, 01:07 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-568:
Im here, Boy George.
or
“Heavens Game:
12 Sep 2011, 01:01 am @Black Panther(Black Panther)-46: Talking about cowardice, next time you want the privilege of being addressed by me then press the arrow on top of the post you have issue with…”
Sing us another one, ‘coward’ !!!
13 Sep 2011, 01:15 am
Transie: agreed there seems to be a real move to making backline players more versatile. Even if you look at Australia they still have that balance of a wing and a ball player on the other wing. The ABs are going full out ball players on both wings.
The question then becomes who’ll take from PdV after the cup, and what’ll he change in bok play. Thankfully, Heynecke is committed to the bulls, I’m not sure if Rassie and AC have escape clauses in their contracts but the boks desperately need a foreigner come in. There’s no SA coach who has the abilities to drag the boks out of 15 years of rut. There’s a need for a fresh approach to flow through provincial, club, school structures for the next 4-8 years.
13 Sep 2011, 01:16 am
Good night chaps my woman is looking at me funny!
13 Sep 2011, 01:19 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-573: Wasn’t addressing you pygmyfck
13 Sep 2011, 01:46 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-576:
I see Boy George, just another 1 of your very many double-standards. How many times have you insisted on bloggers addressing you directly, but now its not good enough for you ?!
Youre a spineless fake bake’n'shake.
13 Sep 2011, 02:33 am
Solly Keo – must have a kicker on the field. For e.g. thats the Wallabies big weakness. Carlos Cooper and Justin o Connor have lukewarm boot. Morne’s defense must be covered by the loosies.
13 Sep 2011, 03:20 am
“NZs many mediocre players. Limited as a team.” If there ever was a case iof the kettle calling the pot black, this was it.
NZ of all the teams in the world haver the ability to play an expansive game ala australia , wales and a 10 man arm wrestle ala Sa and England
SA have a very limited game as evidenced inj the Welsh game. SA simply donnot have the creativity in the backs to score many tries. This isnt conjecture its fact. SA totally rely on forward domination and then prey off the mistakes to convert their points.
Wales were only a play ground drop kick away from winning that game. Once SAs forwards couldnt get ascendancy they were in trouble. Incredibly lucky on the day. Next time they wont be so lucky.
As for the many mediore NZ players. If Henry could select SA players only The Beast, du Plessis, Matfield and du Preez would get a look in. The ABs are superior in every other position given the style NZ play.
If SA could go through the worlds best teams both NH and SH like the ABs did last year and lose only once in a dead rubber to the worlds 2nd rated team. Put up or shut up Bro
13 Sep 2011, 03:22 am
@lapoftherugbygods(lapoftherugbygods)-579: Oh and Heinrich pretty cool too but still would have McCaw.
13 Sep 2011, 03:29 am
Morne Steyn must go. Get Lambie in there at 10 and you’ve got an accurate kicker, an out-standing tackler AND a quick thinker. Morne who? Lambie is the answer.
There is a reason the NZ commentators blow their shorts in excitement whenever Lambie gets the ball – because he’s THAT good.
The only reason Morne Steyn keeps getting selected is because SA RUGBY and PdV have pumped so much money into his development and they don’t want to drop him because it will seem like a waste of money.
We can also do without Habana on the wing, Hougaad proved his worth against Wales and that takes a lot for me to say because I’ve hated his mullet-face for a long time. JPP had some good moments so he can stay (for now).
Bismarck MUST start at Hooker and Smit can replace Prop at 60 when PdV does his whole-sale changes.
As long as Habana and Morne Steyn are GONE and Bissie, Lambie, Alberts and Hougaad start; we’ll actually have a god damn chance.
Until that happens, we’re gonna get our asses absolutely handed to us after the group stage.
13 Sep 2011, 03:36 am
@lapoftherugbygods(lapoftherugbygods)-580: Keo does have a tendency to label players or teams mediocre without much thought. I remember before the British Lions tour in ’09 he said they would battle to win against any of SA’s super 14 sides. Turned out they were very unlucky to lose the series. The All Blacks are only weak in my opinion at scrum half which may cost them and a bit lacking in depth in certain positions. The weight of expectations is their biggest enemy.
13 Sep 2011, 03:49 am
@lapoftherugbygods(lapoftherugbygods)-579:
You simply HAVE to laugh. If the no1 team in the World has “many mediocre players” and is “limited as a team” then what does that say about everyone else ?!
Keo just drops in these soundbites to keep everyone happy (in this case, Bok fans) whilst p*ssing off others (Bok fans in previous cases, for eg the ‘Not Injured, in training camp’ saga). Its presumably all about the ‘hits’ and he cares not for journalistic integrity.
Heres an interesting article in todays NZ herald, by a previous Test referee (Kelvin Deaker). Explains alot about current tactics, for eg McCaw has clearly changed his focus away from the breakdown and more on becoming a linkman. Its been very noticeable that players are going off their feet immediately, a bugbear for Bok fans in recent times but, strangely, no problem when Burger and Roussow did it blatantly, and repeatedly, vs Wales:-
“There’s been some reasonably high penalty counts as all have been strict around the breakdown and offsides, but they have been much too lenient with the ball-carrying team.
The biggest trend we have seen develop is that the defending team are not even competing for the ball at the tackle because they have no show of winning a turnover.
The ball-carrying team are sealing it off by going off their feet. It has changed the whole structure of the game – and not for the better. We have seen some teams that don’t commit any numbers except the tackler. This then allows them to fan all their forwards out in a defensive screen.
It also means the ball-carrying team can pick-and-drive – it really should be called pick-and-dive because they fall over at the first sign of contact – knowing they can recycle the ball without fear of its being stolen.
They find it so easy to do because – apart from Nigel Owens early in the Fiji-Namibia match – no referee was willing to penalise the attacking player’s support for leaving their feet to seal off the ball.
Apart from that early burst, even Owens ignored it from then on.
Technically, some of the tackle areas don’t become rucks because the defending team has not committed anybody to it. That essentially means there is no offside line. It will be interesting to see if some coaches try to take advantage of this and leave their defenders out among the attacking team’s backs on the basis that without a ruck, it is still general play.
On Sunday night, you had two of the best ball-winners in the game in Heinrich Brussow and Sam Warburton, whose only hope of getting their hands on the ball was if a tackle was effected right at their feet.
Otherwise neither team even tried to win the ball. They just had to tackle and wait for the other team to make a mistake.
Bryce Lawrence had the toughest job of the weekend, simply because Argentina were so combative all across the field. They gained control over the breakdown and forced England to play their way.
Bryce was right with his calls but a different approach was required, where he needed to have a strong presence at the breakdown rather than positioning himself 15 metres away and then only getting closer to the action when the ball hadn’t come free.”.
13 Sep 2011, 03:53 am
@malcolm(malcolm)-582:
There was also, of course, Keos wee gem – perfectly timed just before the 2010 International season – when he stated simply
“NZ rugby is k@k”.
3 – 0.
13 Sep 2011, 04:10 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-584: Please don’t take Keo too seriously, old man. Few bloggers on here even bother reading the articles. They merely blog for the banter.
Nice informative article by Kelvin Deaker. Thanks for that one.
13 Sep 2011, 05:20 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-558:
I like your team
I would possibly keep Steyn in the to back up Butch in the kicking dept
leave Jpp on the wing with maybe Aplon that has basically 2 full back wings situation to help Steyn
I guess we have to keep Spies @ 8 Maybe Skalk at 8 Spies did nothing all game, but he needs this game to get his act together
I like Alberts at lock always have
Muller capt allows JS to sit (in the stands )
13 Sep 2011, 06:05 am
@kwas(kwas)-585:
“Thanks for that one”.
WOW
I’ll frame that….
(ps – I dont take Keo too seriously. In fact I ignored it first time around. But I understand the game, I have biz interests in media).
13 Sep 2011, 06:25 am
Ah yes, the great keow speaks – rubbish. Nothing new. Does he think Lambie would have stopped Roberts more effectively? A good big ‘un etc at 20kg weight difference. Why is their centre running at your 10? Wake up twat, the Boks don’t really have a defensive coach. Your logic suggests playing a Meyer Bosman at 10 rather to meet the “Jamie Roberts’”. But not a bad idea. Steyn or Lambie put out by a PI late high tackle (remember D Hougaard) will not be good. Certainly the PI’s will run at the Bok 10 all day if there is no better defensive alignment.
Start with Bissy? What if he gets injured against the PI’s? Another wake up for keow. For the PI’s we need well worked out disciplined set pieces (do we have a set piece coach?), plenty of 10 man game time but no loose hacks downfield – touch must be found and kicks followed up. Run around like headless chickens and these ou’s could smash us.
As for the AB’s, plenty journeymen in there like Cowan, Wee poo, Williams, even Nonu the great has been exposed. But they are super well-drilled, have Paddy O’ Brien’s support, on home ground and some world beaters, particularly Carter. Tough to beat.
13 Sep 2011, 07:05 am
Would’ve started Alberts ahead of Spies all day long, better go forward in the tight and a million times better on defense than Spies. Steyn has no place in the team, his tackles lack any pride or heart. Half-hearted attempts at best.
13 Sep 2011, 08:19 am
@husky(husky)-588:
Nonu is the Worlds Best no12, has been for 18mths.
Nonu vs J.Roberts would be a cracker tho.
Neither ‘Williams’ in the ABs is a “journeyman”.
13 Sep 2011, 08:37 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-590: always glad when they pick nonu against the boks, much like Sivi and Roco. when the going gets tough their instinctive styles are a liability
13 Sep 2011, 09:25 am
@RL(RL)-508: Yea when hell freezes over…lol in what universe will Wales beat NZ in NZ?
13 Sep 2011, 11:07 am
Makes no effing sense to axe Morne. Kicks win you games. He must work on his d…
But we wouldnt any sense to come out of Keohane’s piehole now would we
13 Sep 2011, 12:39 pm
The one positive that I can take out of the Wales game is that our bench made a better impact than theirs which contributed strongly to our victory. In the final 20 minutes of a game when an element of fatigue naturally becomes a factor, the ability to bring on players that have an ability to be influential like Bismark (in the tight and on the ground), Alberts(getting over the advantage line and providing go forward) and Hougaard(strong running), should not be underestimated.
This combination of “impact players” has the potential to be a major strength of ours as the competition progresses.
I would prefer to see continuity in this aproach than argue that these players should start. This was one aspect of our game plan that worked. We should look eleswhere in rectifying what did not work and keep this strength intact.
13 Sep 2011, 13:42 pm
Boks of 2011 remind me of the Wallabies of 1995 – too many critical personnel past their prime.Defending champs who have been left standing still and off the pace.
13 Sep 2011, 15:19 pm
@BuckT(BuckTrendy)-591:
Nonu has had a field day against the Boks in last 2 years.
Go ask your Captain, he’s still looking for Cinderella.
13 Sep 2011, 15:20 pm
@BuckT(BuckTrendy)-591:
of Nonu…..”when the going gets tough their instinctive styles are a liability’
1 word
SOWETO
13 Sep 2011, 19:44 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-536: Like a fly to a droll – me fly – you droll! (you see – you don’t need many words to get a message across)
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