Sam’s the man in round one
13 Sep 2011
MARK KEOHANE selects his all-star XV and match 22 after the first round of the World Cup and says none was better than Wales captain Sam Warburton. Only two Boks and one All Black make his team.
Keo’s RWC Form XV
15. Israel Dagg (NZ)
14. Vereniki Goneva (Fij)
13. Jaque Fourie (SA)
12. Jamie Roberts (Wal)
11. Digby Ioane (Aus)
10. Quade Cooper (Aus)
9. Ben Youngs (Eng)
8. Sergio Parisse (Ita)
7. Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe (Arg)
6. Sam Warburton (Wal)
5. Paul O’Connell (Ire)
4. James Horwill (Aus)
3. Ben Alexander (Aus)
2. Bismarck du Plessis (SA)
1. Andy Sheridan (Eng)
Substitutes
16 Marius Tincu (Rom)
17 Martin Castrogiovanni (Ita)
18 Brad Thorn (NZ)
19 Schalk Burger (SA)
20 Will Genia (Aus)
21 Sonny Bill Williams (NZ)
22 Richard Kahui (NZ)
The positions in which there was most competition definitely in the centres and at loose-forward. Wales’ Toby Faletau had a huge game against the Boks, but Sergio Parisse is the most complete No 8 at this tournament. It was hard to leave Schalk Burger out of the Form XV but Lobbe was immense against England. Jerome Kaino, David Pockock, Heinrich Brussouw and Radike Samo also had huge games in round 1.
Sonny Bill Williams was also very good, but Jamie Roberts get the nod because of the quality of the opposition and the intensity of the match.
A selection that may surprise many is Ben Alexander at tighthead. I was at that game and those first 40 minutes were brutal. He stood up to the Italian pack who couldn’t get parity in those first 40 minutes. There was one magnificent shove that should have resulted in a pushover try, but all-round I think Alexander will end this tournament as the most talked about tighthead.
Fill up the thread with your picks of round one.
293 Comments
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13 Sep 2011, 12:03 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-91: hosea gear had no equal during last year’s eoyt, he was busting tackles willy nilly but hey wayne smith is known as a “tinkerer”, he might be living up to his reputation.
13 Sep 2011, 12:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-98:
You didn’t say you were talking about Mapoe did you? That’s why I mentioned both players. So calm down
Also continuing on from my previous post.
Mjekevu = Playing centre at the moment?
Mbovane = Played centre right through High School no?
Sithole = Centre?
Looks to me like they are centres who you are now tipping as ‘out-and-out’ wingers
13 Sep 2011, 12:06 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-101:
Busting tackles, and when he wasn’t doing that?
This isn’t the NFL where you can send on your offense when you’ve got the ball and forget about everything else. Hosea Gear when he has the ball in his hands is very strong… but off the ball he’s very average, which is why he’s not there anymore.
13 Sep 2011, 12:10 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-100: mbovane more physical runner? i don’t know how you get to that when mjekevu is 1.90m 94kg vs tshotsho who is 1.77m 81kg.
tshotsho is the more elusive runner imo, with a killer sidestep but that’s besides the point.
13 Sep 2011, 12:11 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-97: Fair enough about Sivi but they you contradict yourself with Hosea Gear in terms of him just being a good S14 player…but earlier you gave Toeava glowing appraisal-what has he done at TEST LEVEL???
Think you being incredibly harsh on our wingers especially JPP,the second half of S15 he can off his wing multiple times,he run the angle off the inside channel at lineout better than anyone,also comes back on channel 1 off the fringes,great in the air both on defense and offense.Big bloke who is very effective in contact and when in space can open up big time speed wise.He is isnt in good form plain and simple but rate him higher than Guilford,Toeava,Kahui etc on the wing.Habana tries hard but its not happening,hasnt for a while.Kick chase also employs them to stay out wide as well.
13 Sep 2011, 12:13 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-102: sbura has been a wing all along, from Queens, so was Wandile.
13 Sep 2011, 12:15 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-105: it doesn’t matter what both toeava and sadie have done in their careers, they are “footballers”, so in his mind are automatically better.
13 Sep 2011, 12:16 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-100:
Mbovane is more of a winger.And exposure to sevens where he is finisher has only fostered that.
Sithole is an out and out winger.Always played there at Sharks.Can be turned into a centre though,robust playing style
Mjekevu is a midfielder,always been.But his body has taken time to mature,he is still only 20.Like many they starting him on the wing to allow him to get grasp on top flight rugby ala Robbie Freaun a couple years ago.
13 Sep 2011, 12:18 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-106:
Mjekevu was a 13 throughout KES/Lions age groups.in std8/9/10 lol or grade 10/11/12
13 Sep 2011, 12:18 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-105:
Toeava has been far better at test level then people give him credit for. The kiwis criticise him because he was called in as a youngster and makes a fair amount of mistakes, but he has a lot of strengths to his game as well.
I may be harsh on Pietersen, not sure. Might simply come down to coaching/game-plan, but when you’ve scored 2 tries in your last 20 tests, then you shouldn’t be assured a spot. I’d like to see someone with a bit more grunt if Pietersen doesn’t step it up. I’d definitely say he’s capable, but definitely needs to show more urgency then he has been.
On current form, especially considering our lack of penetration in the midfield, I would not have looked past Sadie on the wing.
13 Sep 2011, 12:22 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-109:
He’s making these things up as he goes. Sithole also played a lot of centre. More then on the wing. It doesn’t really matter though I’m more concerned about their attributes.
Mbovane, from what I’ve seen, is a very strong runner for his size. He doesn’t jink etc. He often breaks tackles. Had a very good Junior World Champs (when he played ahead of that hopeless Skosan).
13 Sep 2011, 12:26 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-111: bwahahahaha “amking them up as he goes” hey and “mbovane is the more PHYSICAL RUNNER”?
13 Sep 2011, 12:27 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-110:
Have to disagree there mate.Toeava has been overall pretty mediocre at Test level.Never worked as a 15 when he got in in 05,subsequent years have been pretty sporadic in quality of Test selection and performances. He has cost them in a few Tests due to his lapses in concentration and error rate at crucial times. Does a lot of good things but can be VERY average like his catching up and unders,finishing,defensive efficiency especially alignment etc nah mate he is jst a deer in headlights most of the time in big tests.COUNTLESS times
I have to question this unbelied confidence/hype on Johan Sadie.He is a very good player,one for the future but not Bok standard in ANY position as off yet.He hardly has a body of work to work off,just flashes.you claim mvov doesnt deserve his Bok caps yet you “wont look past Sadie” at wing for a Bok berth-a player who hasnt really played that position consistently AND has less than 15-20 games as a starter in top flight rugby??? Hmmmmmm
13 Sep 2011, 12:28 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-111: where did you see sbura play centre? Queens, SA Academy, SASchools, Sharks u19/21, Currie Cup…please enlighten me.
13 Sep 2011, 12:30 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-111:
Nah mate…now you are mistaken…Mbovane doesnt jink??? the guy has the most devastating feet in SA at the moment,powerful explosive change of direction and speed galore.He is a strong runner for his size much like Leial Masaga.
ummm mate Sithole is Transie’s cousin…blood cousin….He has played wing more than any other position from his Queens College days….
13 Sep 2011, 12:30 pm
Been fun mshiniwami & transie. I’m out. Before I go, here is what I’d be looking at as our starting backline next year… definitely a work in progress but in this direction.
9 Francois Hougaard – If he gets good game-time at 9. Otherwise Pienaar or even Duvenage.
10 **Read below**
11 **Read below**
12 Juan de Jongh
13 Jaque Fourie
14 Johann Sadie
15 Francois Steyn
20 Pienaar (first-choice)/Duvenage (if no overseas players)
21 Jean de Villiers
22 Pat Lambie
*Need a solution at flyhalf like I said yesterday. Would like to see what Johan Goosen can do at S15 level, then decide if that’s a good direction to go in. I think Lambies a fullback, but if the Sharks turn him into a 10 and he performs, then I wouldn’t mind him at flyhalf (but turn Francois Steyn into the full-time goalkicker).
*Need a genuine finisher on the left wing. I’d love a new Habana, but would reserve that jersey to whoever does best at S15 level (long as they can tackle as well).
13 Sep 2011, 12:30 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-113: well said…
game, set, match.
13 Sep 2011, 12:31 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-115:
Sorry that was a mistake. I meant to say “Mbovane doesn’t JUST jink. My bad
13 Sep 2011, 12:35 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-113:
Can believe what you like but the forum about him on thesilverfern.com summed it up for me. He’s been a mixed bag at times, but he’s also shown a HUGE skill-set. To compare him to Hosea Gear who only knows to stand by the touchline is just wrong. He’s been set very high standards because he got called in when no one knew who he was, and hasn’t lived up to them, but he’s not half bad either.
And I think you’ll see what Sadie is capable of next year. Probably wasn’t fair on him to not get much game-time for the Stormers, but when he did he was excellent. And he’s saved WP more then once. Apparently the Griquas ran all over him? Didn’t know he was the sole person responsible for WP defense.
13 Sep 2011, 12:37 pm
I thought Sithole is a Venda / Tswana / Shangaan name from Matebele / Zulu extraction, what he doing from south of Umtata.. you telling me you not a dinkum Xhosa Transie .. or how it work ?
13 Sep 2011, 12:37 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-115:
I see. So he is willing Sithole into the Bok squad then
13 Sep 2011, 12:37 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-116:
Cheers mate
9 Francois Hougaard –
10.Pat Lambie/Elton Jantjes
11.Gio Aplon
12 Juan de Jongh
13 Jaque Fourie
14 JP Pieterson
15 Francois Steyn
13 Sep 2011, 12:38 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-119: no, he was supposed to JUST defend his channel, go read MAULER’s post again, the griquas centre!!!
cheers hennie
13 Sep 2011, 12:39 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-114:
My apologies if I’m wrong. Thought he was a centre. May have confused him for someone else in the Sharks franchise who also played wing, not sure.
13 Sep 2011, 12:40 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-122:
See you all. Have a good day.
13 Sep 2011, 12:40 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-121: where did i say sbura MUST be a bok like you said of sadie?
13 Sep 2011, 12:43 pm
Warburton is a classy player – but his turnovers came from a horizontal position (bar one) – he has pace, skills and is strong and he is competant as a fetcher (but any Southern hemisphere ref would have blown him for his body position against SA. Brussouw to me was twice as good – he had made 22 tackles by the 60min mark – if our forwards were better as a unit imagine the additional impact!
13 Sep 2011, 12:44 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-119:
We have our differences mate so will just leave it there. A winger is a winger plain and simple for me.Gear is a better winger than Toeava. Skillset is one thing-Gaffie also had a great skillset but performances on THE PITCH with consistent quality are the true criteria for me and Toeava after 6 years has yet to deliver period.NZfern.com/high standards or not.otherwise he would have been an incumbent by now.
Sadie has had a few good games but not about to go goo-goo gaga until he is a consistent performer with gametime to warratnt Test selection especially when there are players who have shown greater efficacy that him in the positions especially wing.
13 Sep 2011, 12:46 pm
@NicG(NicG)-127:
Agree 100%
13 Sep 2011, 12:47 pm
JPP, like always blows hot and cold, so I’d still give him the benefit of the doubt. Habana on the other hand is past it. He’s been damaging his reputation the last 2 years and should probably consider retiring before he loses all face… or go play overseas for a while.
I’d actually choose either Ndungane’s at this stage. Neither have much pace left, but they’re hardworking. Mvovo is still an option, but if they continue with the up-n-unders they should use Basson. It’s ironic that they rarely used the up-n-under towards Basson earlier this year. That’s his main (and seemingly only) skill and they almost never made use of it!
13 Sep 2011, 12:47 pm
whats happening boys?
13 Sep 2011, 12:50 pm
Best SA 10 prospect going forward I seen recently is Johan Goosen new prodigy for Free State.. complete NO 10 much like Gary Van Aswegen but far more robust and physical.. I say watch Goosen.. to me he’s the better No. 10 coming through, better than both Lambie and Jantjies.. and Lambie is far too much a utility player come full back than a true No. 10
13 Sep 2011, 12:55 pm
@Bouts(Bouts)-130:
Habana has been strugglin for form for the better part of 2 years yes but he still has plenty of speed.None of the SH wings in OZ,NZ have more pace than him period.Jane,Guilford,Gear,Toeava,Iaone,Oconnor,Ashley Cooper etc he at the very least as quick as these guys.Plain to see on his scramble defense that he still is pretty quick.Hauls in people pretty much all the time.
He is just not playing well,speed not the problem even though is isnt the out and out speedster he used to be.Only Rod Davies is probably quicker on the international circuit.
13 Sep 2011, 13:00 pm
JPP still better bet than any the other wingers for a WC position… and even Habana is not ready for the trash heap… The wingers we got there are fine.. JPP, Aplon, Habana, Ndungane can cover all purposes.
I would consider JPP to 15 and play Aplon / Habana / Ndungane at 11 / 14 if bringing Steyn to 12 for Fiji / Namibia / Samoa
Though for the big games
FS
JPP
Fourie
JdJ
Habana
Butch
Hougaard
Alberts
Burger
Brussow
Muller
Mostert
JdP
BdP
GS
Beast, CJ, Smit, Spies, Louw, Pienaar / FdP, MS
when bringing on Spies – Alberts goes to 2nd row and Smit just makes bench perhaps have Chili instead. Fly in Mostert and Van Zyl for Matfield / Botha cover
13 Sep 2011, 13:00 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-133: lachie turner would smoke habana
13 Sep 2011, 13:03 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-133: That’s fine. He can run the 100m in the Olympics. I never complained about his pace. He’s not as fast as previously, but still fast.
But he rarely chases the kicks. Rarely make an effort to help with the defense and rarely get involved in open play. He had a good game against NZ a few weeks ago… granted, but that was again gone this weekend.
That’s my point. Ndunganes are slow, but currently more capable rugby players.
13 Sep 2011, 13:07 pm
@Bouts(Bouts)-136:
Fair enough.
@Transformation(Transformation)-135:
Lachie Turner does deserve to be on same pitch as Habs as badly as Habana is playin Id have him everyday of the week and twice on Sunday ahead of that “try hard” no ability Turner.Jongi would smoke Turner…hehehe
13 Sep 2011, 13:11 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-133: And Digby Ione?
13 Sep 2011, 13:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-135:
look man, there’s a line…and you just crossed it there…
13 Sep 2011, 13:12 pm
@Helen(Helen)-131:
We are all scratching our nuts Helen!
Want to join us?
13 Sep 2011, 13:13 pm
Truth is, I just don’t like Habs. There is something unlikeable about the guy.
13 Sep 2011, 13:15 pm
From all the posts on here, there should have been around 8 boks in the best XV for the week. They only just beat wales by 1 point due to the touch judge not giving wales the penalty kick they slotted. Optomistic bunch.
Boks looked woeful. Im not blaming the players, its your clown coach. Australia is envious of your player talent, but laugh at the idiotic manner in which they are managed.
13 Sep 2011, 13:16 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-141:
There is Everything likeable about the guy!
13 Sep 2011, 13:19 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-138:
Digny isnt an out and out speedster,more a power runner much in the Hosea Gear mould/speed wise.Quick but not quicker than Habana>Better yes not quicker
13 Sep 2011, 13:23 pm
@We are red(Redbull)-142:
Yeah….Envious indeed,have been through generations…even across coaching generations…Makgraaf-du Plessis-Viljoen-Straeuli-White….great records & managers all of those blokes huh? Only Mallett has any semblence/modicum of excellence…somewhat…
13 Sep 2011, 13:28 pm
@We are red(Redbull)-142:
1 point due to the touch judge not giving wales the penalty kick they slotted.
The two (2) Neutral Assistant Referees, standing under the uprights, deemed the kick, NOT OVER THE UPRIGHTS.
Of all people in the stadium, they had the best view.
Better than the 34,000 great unwashed.
Better than the Referee, the much maligned Barnsey.
Better than the Kicker himself.
Better than even the TV Comentators.
Wales lost………………………………………..fair and square.
13 Sep 2011, 13:34 pm
@cane(cane)-146: Why you being nice to us?
Im suspicious now.
Or am I misreading it?
13 Sep 2011, 13:34 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-141:
we’re listening…
13 Sep 2011, 13:37 pm
france coach sshits all over his players in an interview hehehehe
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10751513
13 Sep 2011, 13:41 pm
@cane(cane)-146: Your not seriously debating weather that kick went through or not. watch the replay you chump
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