Pool A latest – Mils axed, McCaw and Carter return
21 Sep 2011
Keo.co.za brings you the latest news from Pool A.
Mils booted, McCaw and Carter return – Mils Muliaina is omitted from New Zealand’s match 22 to play France while Richie McCaw returns from injury to play his 100th Test.
Dan Carter is also in the mix for the Auckland clash after injury ruled him out of the last Test against Japan. Muliaina, capped 98 times, is omitted from the squad and is now in danger of not becoming a Test centurion, with Dagg exhibiting far superior form and no room on the wood for the veteran.
Piri Weepu starts at scrumhalf, with Andy Ellis as cover. Jimmy Cowan is the loser in that closely contested battle. Locks Ali Williams and Anthony Boric are both on the reserve bench, leaving them short of specialist loose forward cover in the form of Vito.
‘While there is obviously intense interest in this game because of past Rugby World Cups, the focus for the team is simple,’ coach Graham Henry said.
‘We will have to match the physicality of the French, execute our key roles well and deal with anything unexpected which the French may throw at us. They are a very good side and they often play their very best rugby against the All Blacks. They play with huge passion, lift themselves emotionally and, as always, they can never be underestimated.’
The winner of Saturday’s match is likely to face Argentina in the quarter-final, while the loser expected to play Scotland.
All Blacks - Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma’a Nonu, Richard Kahui, Dan Carter, Piri Weepu, Adam Thomson,Richie McCaw (c), Jerome Kaino, Sam Whitelock, Brad Thorn, Owen Franks, Keven Mealamu, Tony Woodock.
Subs: Andrew Hore, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Anthony Boric, Andy Ellis, Colin Slade, Sonny Bill Williams.
242 Comments
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22 Sep 2011, 09:00 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-192:
do you not find your constant insults and taunts aren’t just as tired and overdone as you say their repetitious comments are…
#justasking
22 Sep 2011, 09:04 am
@ufo(ufo)-201:
Feel free to skip my comments just like I skip theirs, nobody is forcing you to read them.
22 Sep 2011, 09:04 am
geluk op jou verjaarsdag Bakkies!
Moer hulle….
22 Sep 2011, 09:05 am
Ok its late here in Ca Have to watch the replay
80 plus points?
Nite all Cheers
22 Sep 2011, 09:05 am
Oh damn, forgot…
#justsaying
22 Sep 2011, 09:06 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-204:
Cheers Coach, on my way home now too, will watch it on catch-up a little later myself!
22 Sep 2011, 09:07 am
Moves in between Slartibartfast and UFO before he goes
Makes them shake hands
22 Sep 2011, 09:08 am
@CoachPete(CoachPete)-190:
Sa’s Hoff
22 Sep 2011, 09:09 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-202:
bit touchy there…?
but… based on for previous posts… you obviously don’t skip theirs…
i read most comments because i like to get a view different to mine… so will keep reading yours too…
thing is… i don’t get offended if people don’t agree with me…
22 Sep 2011, 09:11 am
anyway guys enjoy the rugga…
i’m gonna miss it due to meetings…
can you believe people in sa not knowing about the boks playing today…!!???
cheers
22 Sep 2011, 09:28 am
Habana signs new contract with Province.
^%$&$%$^%$^%$%$ FFS
ai tog
22 Sep 2011, 09:29 am
Where is the Springbok match thread?
22 Sep 2011, 09:57 am
UFO sorry about the meeting, I would be grumpy too…;-)
22 Sep 2011, 10:03 am
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-211: So Habs is sticking around at WP for a little longer.
22 Sep 2011, 10:31 am
AB’s looking comfortable here.
Just Read to return to make the squad availability complete.
Nostalgia aside, it was the right call by Henry to drop Mils. He is still all class and can cover both fullback and centre with ease, and at a pinch wing. But there are other players in the team who right here right now, offer more to the AB’s campaign.
That said, how green with envy must other coaches be to see a player of Mils class miss out on even a bench spot for the AB’s because there are other players better than him to pick from?
22 Sep 2011, 12:21 pm
Note that this is a full strength side for a game for which if we lost we would be better off (I am not saying we should throw this). We send a below par side to South Africa in the Tri-Nations but dare not lose a game in the World Cup.
This proves the point that Graham Henry and the NZRU are still overly obsessed with the World Cup to the point of throwing other competitions.
What was the point in the huge review after the last World Cup if we still have all this bollocks.
This isn’t the countries team any more it is a team banned from talking to us through social media (where the NZRU can not make a profit). It is a team designed to forfill the obsessive objectives of a few and maybe also a proportion of New Zealanders that wouldn’t otherwise give a fork about rugby.
This is a team that the coach let lose a home series with France in order to save his own personal embarrassment of two defeats.
Fork Graham Henry. Fork the NZRU. You can’t own our national team and use it for your own small minded objectives. Some of us care about rugby and tradition and every game counts.
22 Sep 2011, 13:25 pm
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-51:
heh heh heh
22 Sep 2011, 13:29 pm
@KiaKahaNZ(KiaKahaNZ)-64:
He’s Premenstrual, thats why, and here merely for our Self Esteem. Works for me, anyway.
22 Sep 2011, 13:32 pm
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-83:
He’s, clearly, not the brightest. Remember to temper your dialogue for those with Special Needs.
22 Sep 2011, 13:35 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-105:
Ive just come from Queen Street and its like a swarm of locusts has descended on the City. Its being evacuated as we speak.
Im taking bug spray on my next excursion.
22 Sep 2011, 13:39 pm
@stew(stew)-148:
still doesnt explain 2 x locks….?
and workrate wont get him far with those technical lines on D.
22 Sep 2011, 13:59 pm
Bleat talking to himself…..
22 Sep 2011, 14:26 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-222:
Would sign-language help ?
22 Sep 2011, 15:19 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-223:
Uncle Ted tinkers again…..Whats suprising with this??
BP this is no different to previous tinkerings at RWC exception is the positions.(Mauger was the old head-playing decent rugby,McCallister was the form player on everyones lips…Parrallels to Mils/Dagg)
Mils is part of the leadership group of this team & is still the most sound allround FB in NZ.
Again I shall lament not picking Hoeatta. now there are 2 locks on bench and no loose forward cover as Vito as I had said: IS CLEARLY NOT READY for the big time.Even more worrying is Read taking so long to recover,would have not played any rugby in over a month when he returns(if) to the most pressured environment in rugby: Knockout footy.
AB’s have 2 lightweight loosies to depend on as cover or even to start in Thompson/Vito…Again the balance of trio is compromised.And with McCaw not operating at his optimum best,put more pressure on that balance.
Woodcock upfront has been struggling for a wee-bit now and as I said isnt the player he once was…And Ben Franks supposedly covering both sides at international level has now been diluted somewhat with his less than impressive recent displays…Now leaving Crockett looks like a huge blunder especially having chosen TWO props who cover both sides-but not DESTRUCTIVE nor on form(Afoa/B.Franks)
Hmmmmm Guilford??? No rugby at all at RWC….Frano Botica anyone?? And Ted leaves Sivivatu who was in ominous form coming into the tournament especially relating to his 3N displays…
Scrumhalf still very very dodgy with Weepu now seeming like he is first choice,after being out of favour with Ted in last 12-18months & Cowan playing alongside Carter when AB’s went 17-2 I think…..
Tinkerbell Uncle Ted…Tinkering again
22 Sep 2011, 15:36 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-224: Never fear my friend the three wise men will have a solution, sure there’s clear weakness in Afoa and woodcock, the scrummy environment for the AB’s has been weak since Marshall left, we’ve never recovered but FDP is not looking sexy at 9, and the only at his premium is genia only of the wallaby pack provide a platform. Mils is unfortunate, if he was playing for an enterprising team like the boks he’d be a dead certain but the AB’s live off counter attack and the fb has to bring an edge, mils is blunt at the moment and The Jew is bringing everything. I fully agree on sivivatu, guildford was a mistake, he can’t be trusted in crunch games, he’s a real waste in the WC squad. Vito, Thomson, and messam have the same problem they’ve no effect in the international arena, Henry was looking for a second Jerome kaino and none of them have delivered.
As I’ve said before the AB’s are taking it one game at a time, let’s see who’s who by the semis!
22 Sep 2011, 15:45 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-225:
dropping Mils is poor sbali,regardless.He hasnt been horrible,is part of leadership group,has everything you need in a top class FB.His enterprise has waned off a bit but he is still ALL CLASS.Solid as a rock at the back,which I cant say the same for Dagg who isnt the best defender,defensive positioning isnt best at times and isnt much of a kicker neither-great feet,great on counter and was used to great effect as a sub last year by AB’s ie: Soweto so why not put him there above SBW?? Kahui is a renowned midfielder so he can cover midfield if any of Nonu/Smith go down…
SBW retained at all costs I see….even at the expense of a legend.Seeing that Dagg can play off bench and MADE a difference in big games…More than i can say for SBW
22 Sep 2011, 15:49 pm
Woodcock hadn’t played for 3 months’ he’ll be fine come finals time with more match fitness.
22 Sep 2011, 16:01 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-226: Unlike the boks the AB’s as you know well must create scoring opportunities as the backbone of their offensive advance. With this said, from 9-15, the management are looking for those players who can beat tight defenses or at least effect enough havoc to create an opening for the next guy. Mils at present reminds me of Percy Montgomery, all the juice are gone, my friends used to refer to him as the elder statesmen, this is what mils presents to an explosive backline. Wayne smith has gone to the extent of ridding the backline of out and out wings for centers and full back, weepu got the 9 jumper because they believe he adds a dimension in open play. Mils does not fit into this theory, SBW epitomizes it.
22 Sep 2011, 16:20 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-228:
Fair enough but the same theory has failed before,ie:John Hart in the bid to remove specialists for ball players. Too many ball players also stifles the fundamentals of the game especially defensively.And it reaks off putting all your eggs in one basket.With so many ball players AND the bench also comprises of them,what happens if/when AB’s cant break the watertight defenses??
Kahui,Jane,Dagg all have average kicking games,defensive positioning is average barring Jane and average ubder the high ball.Add to that the fact that they have NEVER played together as a trio consistently.Seeing how conditions are also due to get worse as tournament goes on,Oz vs Ireland also case in point, are all these ball players going to operate at an optimum especially seeing what is coming up? Not counting the fact that when knockout rounds come,the defenses get all the more tighter and refs tend to favour more the defensive team with emphasis on breakdown.
Add to that limited looseforward cover especially specialists AGAIN. Ted has seems to also expand that “ball player theory” to the pack with likes of Thompson,Vito,Boric,Afoa, selected instead of Hoeatta,Todd,Braid,Crockett…..Compromising balance somewhat.
Only think they havent compromised on is TINKERING
22 Sep 2011, 16:54 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-229: The approach that Henry has marketed since post the calamity of 2009 has been that the AB’s must present a complete rugby product to the market, this entails, a varied kicking game originating primarily from 9 and 10, 2009 showed two things that they needed higher accuracy and efficacy under the high ball and that there’s a place for an astute kicking approach, with these two components they cannot negate the brand of rugby that defines his tenure which is devastating teams with ball in hand articulation. The one element that has come to the fore this year has been the AB’s 9 and 10 short kicking game to diffuse defenses, though slade was not great in PE, his attacking kicks were very effective, Carter of course is the master in this area. Defenses will over time invariably increase in efficiency but the smith argument is that offensive organization and execution must follow this trend, if you remember against the boks in PE, the AB’s opened them up like a $2 hoe but lacked execution efficiency at the last hurdle. Bringing in 7 ball players in the back line increases the likelihood of breaking these defensive systems, with a number of x factor players in this group,the creation of chances becomes a distinct occurrence rather than those moments being a rarity. On the kicking of Dagg, Jane, and kahui, I’d submit that kahui does not have a grounding in this area, Dagg is no better or worse than mils who’s kicking game is quite ordinary, Jane is a full back so he’s kicking is adequate, it does not need to be special as the AB’s don’t play a back three kicking game, they counter. The argument for SBW is why have one Dagg when you can have SBW having the sane effect as Dagg but doing it differently, it always goes to individuals who can breach defenses with unique skills but still merge with the team game plan.
What we shall see from the AB’s in the knock out stages will be an emphasis on the notion that a team must earn the right to go wide. It won’t be touch rugby, it’ll be about playing in the right areas and executing when opportunities are created. The fact that a specialist NZ 7 such as todd was excluded and mobile locks included as blindside flank cover is that the ABs are looking to breach the advantage line, the momentum generated from that creates the mismatches and holes they are looking for to kick start the running game.
22 Sep 2011, 17:30 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-230:
Fair enough but with all of that you STILL need specialists especially in the pack which at present is being compromised.That same hard edge given by specialists and their subs to be able to maintain that in order to EARN the right to go out wide as you put it. At the moment is seems more emphasis on overloading with ball carriers/ball players and neglecting the hard edge and efficiency needed which is usually supplied by specialists in order to bring those ball players into the game.
In PE the scramble defense managed to stifle the AB’s from scoring which has long been a Bok strength and will only likely be strengthened and in Kahui,SBW there lies a different set of skills/danger than Nonu/Smith who the boks will know better since they have played more.Add Niehaber system having matured/greater efficiency within team and F.Steyn in midfield who is a better defender its a new game.Add to that a greater dimension added by Bok bench.(Also Ab’s will have the missing players in PE back.)
Personally i dont believe in sacrificing specialists in majority for talented ball players which can lobside the structure of a side. Its all about a balance throughout the side,in various combinations.And at present as many a time before especially heading towards knockouts for AB’s they are lobsiding balance of team in favour or some fantastical “ideal” theory which has never been indicative of WC winning campaigns….
Carter is the only real kicker in the team of any repute.Weepu is erratic going between sublime and utterly avg.Otherwise the rest under pressure are mediocre. And with Woodcock at 1 the AB’s have lost a fair bit of a hard edge in the scrum which was a useful platform to launch attacks in 2010 and early 2011.He isnt the player he was,AB’s are no means weak there but they arent as strong as before.Crockett is a massive blunder I repeat.
As good as ball players are going forward,they arent as adept under pressure/going backwards in relation to their basics.
.
22 Sep 2011, 18:10 pm
“Their article was based on a column in their own paper, written by Peter Bills, suggesting that the French were throwing the game to get to the ‘easy side’ of the draw.
Only they will know how they can publish a lead story based on the opinion of one of their own writers, but then, maybe there was no car accident or delayed train to report about in the greater Auckland area.”
Oh dear. Are the New Zealanders to be adjudicated the epicene brethren of this RWC?
22 Sep 2011, 18:24 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-231: It’s become an accepted notion that the number on one’s back in consideration of back play is becoming increasingly less important, coaches are looking for more complete footballers who have a mastery of the basics for a said position and provide more to give the attack more unpredictability, remember the nature of the development of attacking mechanisms is a function of more informed defensive alignments at set piece and in open play. The AB’s approach is both a reaction to defenses and proactive to ensured that their bread and butter remains, therefore, the coaches endless task of combating defensive strategies has culminated in not only utilizing width but also ensuring that a player understands that their primary purpose is to interact with teams to create and execute opportunities.
Crockett is massive around the park, he has an impact on defense, at the breakdown, and on attack has go forward in the tight exchanges, and is a liberal runner in open play and supports well. The issue that Henry and Hansen have with him is that he has a tendency to not hold up his side of the scrum, and incurs penalty owing to that. The view I imagine that Henry and Hansen will hold is that at knock out stage, in tight matches, what’ll be the real cost of Crockett. When you are up against Morne Steyn and Francois Steyn as frontline still ball kickers, who can punish you from anywhere, this becomes a real consideration. Tony woodcock will get better, he’s a classy loosehead and will get more effective.
The AB’s when it comes to the tier 1 teams, they believe that one on one defense situations are in favor of defenders, the AB’s rely on offensive moves and set plays not to target an individual but to breakdown an opposing teams defensive systems. They pick apart systems rather than individuals, so whether it’s Francois Steyn or jdv or whoever is immaterial.
22 Sep 2011, 19:02 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-233:
With every generation the same pattern has been actively initiated by AB coaches so henry isnt a visionary rather another in the line of Ab coaches in the same frame of thought.
The one common denominator with the gameplan and the very defenses they aim to stay abreast of and breakdown is that-the knockout phases tend to result in the same result…..The more pragmatic,defensive,tactical team wins the pressure encounters.Not the team with the most ball players and the most proactive approach to the development of defensive system trends.
And those very individual you claim not to matter are the ones who allow such defensive systems to flourish and become more efficient regardless of the moves to break them down. Rugby is a simple game at the end of the day,defense if you make your tackle in conjuction with the system-and some players are better tacklers and athletes that others will allow you to stifle “proactive opposition” while taking your points and keeping them on opposite side of your halfway line. With Lambie,Morne,Frans SA also has better weaponry boot wise WHICH form part of a defensive gameplan which previosly wasnt present.So those individual do play a part in efficiency of such a defense allow it to handle attacks better.So mate its not immaterial,to think that is merely naive if not a show of ultimate hubris.One which has always plagued the AB in knockout..Mentality is: “if we run at them all day,do things correct-they will break down eventually”…Well mate more times than not at WC they dont break down,due to the absolute desperation of those individual within that defensive system.And at that time,ie: France in 07 a typical example: You can come all day but you aint scoring.Cant buy that.
Hubris indeed.
22 Sep 2011, 20:16 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-234: Your introduction of the boot defense and individual prowess does add to our discourse but it does not specifically define it and in that render asunder my posit. I agree rugby is essentially a simple game, and is by and large played in that fashion, my contention though is that at this level doing the simple things right is critical, I’d further that accepted view point and say that though rugby is 80% psychological, advanced strategies and complex game plans parried by ever evolving laws have moved rugby along a development continuum to create a coaching culture that’s befits the professional environment that rugby exists in. The game to an extent has evolved, players are better conditioned, coaches are more intellectual about the industry they ply their trade in, sure, AB coaches are invariably placed in a position to lead the pack and present ideas, concepts, theories, and implement revolutionary strategies to maintain global dominance in every aspect of the game but to be fair that’s the lot of an all black coach, with that said one as an all black coach still needs to come up with that body of intellectual property that can be effected by your team to preserve tradition.
South Africa boasts a considerably larger player pool than new zealand, and the all blacks opine that which ever player the boks put forward is undoubtedly the pinnacle in his position, therefore, the individual capabilities become less of a focus than the collective on defense, the AB attack coach has to attend to the defensive patterns that bolster bok play, bok defense of late has been stingy certainly at the WC but it has not been truly tested by a team that portends the virtues of outrageous attacking skill, this is the challenge. I’ll concede that WCs are attritional, the AB’s have had to make concessions to meet that standard but they won’t leave their attacking platform on the table, it’ll be a veritable part of their arsenal at the knock out stages, the differentiator will be the manner in which that ICBM is disseminated. The irb is looking to the all blacks to leave a mark on this WC to increase the global viability of rugby as an internationally competitive brand, they know that without a continued successful All Black cultural norm of highly skilled rugby, rugby will forever be the domain of the purist.
22 Sep 2011, 20:20 pm
Mshini: please excuse my tardiness, I was in the mist of home economics (it was the other option to maths in the old days!).
22 Sep 2011, 20:24 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-224:
oh bugger off and stop making so much sense….!
(yes, yes, and yes again).
Notwithstanding all that this team ,with or without Read, is still going to be very hard to beat in Aotearoa.
22 Sep 2011, 20:31 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-229:
OK, but now youre starting to push the boat out a little.
“Kahui,Jane,Dagg all have average kicking games,defensive positioning is average barring Jane and average ubder the high ball.’
Dagg has an above-average kicking game and his defensive positioning is excellent. Kahui is strong under the garryowen and is defensively superb.
Braid ?! oh c’mon. And Todd simply wasnt ready, fine potential tho.
22 Sep 2011, 20:54 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-235:
Sbali I hear you BUT
With all those “revolutionary ideas,strategies,theories etc” that AB coaches introduce to maintain their global dominance,for the most part as results have shown for the past 24 years-those are largely renders obsolete when it comes to the business end of world cups.That very intelectual property you speak of introduced throughout the tenure of 4 year cycle is largely visible to all those who possess game tapes and are able to breakdown the main structures of the AB attack and plan for them accordingly, The AB strategy is unlikely to change in totality to the point where its foreign to the rugby world at large and take all and sundry but suprise.There will be slight variations and news facets within the overall concept but revolutionary it wont be at the games themselves.
The fact that SA has a larger player pool and the rest has little significance when the teams meet between those 4 white lines.For all the outrageous attacking play which I might add isnt exactly possessed by the AB’s but rather the Wallabies backline when in full flight has a lot of more variations in attack with their players arguably with a wider skiilset as attributed by Oz culture for generations seeing that their back play has to be at an optimum in conjuction with phase play in order to paper over the cracks of their often deficient pack of forwards.
And finally about the IRB wanting the AB’s to leave a lasting impression in order to increase the game’s global viability brand-wise,that may be true somewhat but it doesnt exactly correlate to the result that the AB’s have to win this WC to leave that impression. There are multiple strategies(7′s rugby is the way to go) that can be implemented to spread the game and if the IRB were serious about spreading the brand they for one WOULDNT have given the tournament to NZ in the first place.
So its not some divine strategy or right of the AB’s to be the custodians of the rugby brand. The AB cultural norm of highly skilled rugby while inspiring and ultimate marketing tool in enticing never before exposed markets, its not tantamount to victory on the rugby field itself (ala: Dallas Cowboys) thus for all the attacking revolution implemented-they will still have to break down stingy knockout influenced defenses as well as the officiating.That my friend the IRB can do nothing about, neither will all the marketing in the world..
Hubris I say again….Your view on the AB’s as some divine custodians of rugby-if that isnt hubris I dont know what is.
I suppose the rest if the teams must just lie down while the IRB augments the proceedings in order for the AB brand to reign supreme due to highly skilled nature so we can all be thankful.
Yeah right ndoda
22 Sep 2011, 21:02 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-237: @<a
Lol.I dont doubt that.Any AB team will be tough to be at home.
22 Sep 2011, 21:08 pm
Mshini: suzilibasiza ngalomntu, iconko yethu ipucukile, masiye ngaphambili.
22 Sep 2011, 21:39 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-239: The perspective of the all blacks embody a product that is susceptible to those who want to be thrilled and entertained, if a sporting body wants to line up revenues and increase global share of the aggregate sporting market, one has little option to present brilliance. The boks thrill that old school notion of Rome, give the masses blood and they’ll not revolt. Sport is now a justified cornerstone of the marketing economy and the IRB wants a serious stake of that, the IRB’s premium product is 15 man rugby, 7′s merely typifies the attraction that the broader public has to innovative rugby, a view which south Africans have had largely an inability to embrace nor willing to inculcate, this of course is understandable, as the boks have a tradition of rugby that did not have the opportunity to accept an openess of ideas, Danie craven was the ultimate custodian of bok rugby, and believed himself to be the source of origination of the colour and nature of rugby in south Africa, this autocratic imposition on SA is the sustenance of the bok traditional way and the symbolism of what’s wrong with bok rugby, SA has to rid itself with that rather gauche saying of new zealanders “getting that ****** off your back”! Though holding a dearth of refinement, the offering is appropriate.
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