The buck stops here
29 Sep 2011
MARK KEOHANE, writing in Business Day Sport Monthly, says Springbok rugby must never again lurch from one World Cup campaign to another. It must become a results-driven business with expectation and accountability.
The Rugby World Cup is a tournament that lasts six weeks. It should not be a four-year excuse for any player or coach.
When you read this, South Africa’s fate at the Rugby World Cup could largely be decided. They may be getting close to successfully defending the trophy – or they could be on the brink of packing up and going home.
There will be arrogance among South African supporters. Alternatively there will be denial when there should be insistence that a repeat of the past four years should never again be tolerated, let alone allowed.
The World Cup is undoubtedly the tournament every rugby nation wants to win. The Tri-Nations is a tougher trophy to win but it doesn’t have the global appeal or the romance of the World Cup. It isn’t quite knockout rugby, even though New Zealand has often won the Tri-Nations in a must-win last outing against South Africa or Australia. Everyone seems to forget that because they have blown every World Cup campaign since their successful 1987 tournament.
I don’t understand the view towards the World Cup when it comes to planning and preparation and South Africa is no exception when it comes to putting all the emphasis on the World Cup. It is a tournament that should form part of a four-year cycle. It should not constitute the four-year cycle. Peter de Villiers’ successor should not be judged on whether the Boks win the World Cup in four years’ time. His successor should be judged on how the Boks perform every season, in every Test and in every tournament.
Give the coach a four-year contract, but include performance-based clauses. Make it reviewable after two years. That way the national rugby union is protected, the coach has a form of protection and a responsibility to deliver and no player has the comfort of a four-year cruise because of an affiliation with the incumbent national coach.
Jake White, in succeeding Rudolf Straeuli as Bok coach, gave South Africans a lesson in building a team and the importance of having experience in the change room. But no player can ever be allowed to control the environment in which he plays – and that has been the curse of the Boks in the past four years. Old players, settled, comfortable and calling the shots, do what suits them and what accommodates them. They don’t encourage change, they seldom celebrate the introduction of youth and they grey the area of playing experience and job security.
Whether South Africa win the World Cup or not, South African rugby, to have sustainability, has to have a new approach to the national team, both in terms of expectation and delivery. The expectation has to be that the Boks win every time they play at home and win more than they lose when abroad. Results must be the priority because if a coach has to get results he invariably picks the form players capable of producing a winning sensation. No player is given a four-year guarantee and a 48-month salary advance.
Giving a coach a four-year cycle is an act of suicide if the intent is to evolve and mature into a team of winners. It allows for four years of excuses, either from a coach who supposedly builds in those four years and sees the World Cup as the defining moment of his tenure or it allows for four years of comfort for a coach and players who have no fear of change.
Bok coach Peter De Villiers has convinced himself and a nation that because he put his faith in the 2007 World Cup winners (back in 2008 and again in 2009 and 2010) it was too late to make a change in 2011. He did this because of his shocking results in 2010, when he said that losing in 2010 was a consequence of the grand plan to win in 2011. Other coaches have also used this argument to justify defeats between World Cups.
It is wrong.
Strong leadership is desperately sought within South African rugby to change this mindset. Decisions must be made that make the players and coaches accountable but also ensure that those officials making such massive rugby decisions have to be judged by the
calls they make.
There should never again be a situation when a group of players two years out from a World Cup inform the coach they have a desire to play in the competition and are effectively guaranteed a plane ticket, regardless of form.
There has never been strong managerial leadership within the Boks since White was thanked for winning the World Cup in 2007 and then told to bugger off. Tough selection decisions have not been made because the senior players won’t entertain such behaviour from a weak coaching staff.
The concept of a national selection committee is outdated in a professional environment. Think of the madness. The coach, whose livelihood should be dependent on his team’s results, doesn’t get exclusivity when it comes to selecting his national squad. Two blokes, who have careers outside rugby, make up a three-man selection committee to determine the national squad before every major tournament, be it an incoming series, the Tri-Nations, the end-of-year tour or the World Cup. It is just rubbish and another example of amateur ideals compromising professional principles.
Rugby is a business. Don’t kid yourself that it is a sport, so treat it like a business – and expect those in rugby’s employ to be assessed corporate-style. In business you survive or fall by your decisions, your choices and you are held accountable for those decisions and choices.
Which CEO would survive not investing in a talent like Bismarck du Plessis? He wouldn’t, because shareholders would not accommodate an excuse that the veteran tasked with making the profit would hit his target only every leap year. The board would demand investment in the individual best suited to get results in that year and the demand would be ongoing post every Christmas lunch. A new year would bring a new expectation.
Rugby is a lucrative business for the best players and coaches but it should be accepted that it also ruthless and if the performance does not match the predetermined budgets, that coach and player should be out.
It would also define the type of individual willing to coach the Boks and the kind of player who wants to be part of the Boks. There would be no guarantee of a job if the match returns weren’t proportionate to the salaries being paid.
Think of the financial and emotional investment of the nation when it comes to the Boks. Rugby and government officials implore the average South African to support the team regardless. Forget the make-up of the side, forget how they are playing and forget whom the coach is selecting. Support because you are South African and it is the patriotic thing to do. What crap. Would you invest in a company where government officials urge you not to question the decision-making of the CEO? Would you accept asking a question that involves your investment being dismissed as unpatriotic? I didn’t think so.
The only way to grow our intellect as a nation is for us to debate issues and to educate ourselves that it isn’t a bad thing to ask questions and hold accountable those who survive on supposed patriotism.
If the South African public is the most important shareholder in Springbok rugby there has to be a yearly plan around the team – and this plan includes officials, coaches and players fronting in return for the R450 a person pays to watch a live Test in South Africa, and the huge amounts sacrificed when following the team abroad or purchasing team merchandise.
De Villiers, a week before the Rugby World Cup, did not blink in telling the media that John Smit was the best hooker in the world – and the form hooker of world rugby. Bear in mind Smit did not start against the All Blacks in Port Elizabeth and played only the last 16 minutes. Smit, to his credit, responded by telling the audience his wife also thought he was the best looking bloke around. Everyone chuckled, but imagine if a CEO of a blue chip company made that statement a week before the financials were due to be made public? The share price would drop. Take it as a given.
De Villiers knows Du Plessis is the best hooker in the world. He knows he should be playing him for 80 minutes but he doesn’t know how to negotiate Smit’s role within the team. De Villiers isn’t equipped technically, intellectually or emotionally to make the decisions expected of one in his position.
De Villiers told Butch James he was his starting 10 for the World Cup and that is why he wanted him back in South Africa and not playing club rugby in England. Pressure from within the squad, by seasoned grizzlies who wanted mates selected and deemed themselves to be untouchables, meant James did not start the World Cup at No 10 but was given a bench role as an insurance policy.
The selection of James on the bench, as one example, made very little rugby sense because he offered so little in terms of versatility. The decision to ignore Du Plessis’ form and pedigree was described by international critics as shameful.
I could cite several other examples in the build-up to this Bok World Cup campaign and the campaign proper once at the tournament, but that is not what this is about.
It is about getting it right post-2011 and ensuring the South African rugby public doesn’t get fed propaganda like Smit is the best hooker in the world on form and Bismarck isn’t.
Smit, a wonderful leader of a team who has achieved everything in winning the World Cup, the Tri-Nations and beating the British & Irish Lions, must have cringed at that statement because he knows where he was once the tutor to Du Plessis he is no longer the master.
In this magazine some months ago I made a plea to support Smit’s captaincy at the World Cup and his starting role ahead of the superior playing qualities of Du Plessis. I did it because of the inadequacies of the coach and his assistants.
Smit had to lead the Boks to the World Cup, but that should never have been a guarantee he should lead them in the play-offs at the World Cup. The best should play. The best should always play, otherwise what is the point?
I just watched Wales lose to South Africa in Wellington by a single point after two of their kickers missed a drop goal and penalty within five minutes of the final whistle. To trail Wales by six points on the hour and then pray for their flyhalf to miss a drop goal from straight in front and their goal-kicker to fluff a match-winning kick with three minutes to play couldn’t have been part of the master plan as sold to a nation of Bok supporters.
This is what you were told to invest in and not question.
To watch a coach describe the one-point win as ‘brilliant’ against a nation that has beaten South Africa once in 100 years was embarrassing. To hear him say everything is on track was simply insulting to the intelligence of every South African rugby supporter.
Accountability! It is the missing piece in rugby’s professional puzzle.
De Villiers has had a four-year excuse from the day he got the Bok job. He has done what any coach would do if given such a free ride. I don’t blame him; I blame a system that allows mediocrity to dwarf excellence. And then rewards the non-achievement with a healthy monthly salary.
Watching Du Plessis play against Wales in the final 20 minutes symbolised everything that can be right about our game. Watching him huddled among the substitutes for an hour before that put into perspective just how much is wrong with our rugby.
Who would invest in a company whose board applauds De Villiers and ignores Du Plessis?
South African rugby’s challenge as a company with national commercial and emotional investment has to be to demand excellence every year and not just hope for it in a play-off match every four years.
To reach this rugby nirvana so much has to change about the way those in rugby do business and we as supporters invest in that business.
– This article first appeared in the October issue of Business Day Sport Monthly, which is distributed FREE with the newspaper on the second last Friday of the month.
673 Comments
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29 Sep 2011, 15:09 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-398:
In the backyard,gets rented out.
29 Sep 2011, 15:09 pm
@Helen(Helen)-396: whatever, quickie.
I do not mind seeing Boks losing to Scots, Irish or getting hammered in Oz/NZ while “building for the World Cup of 20xx”. No probs whatsoever, so all happy.
29 Sep 2011, 15:10 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-394:
Hurri, no-one is saying that it is ok for the Boks to lose ANY game.
Fact is that we are NOW IN A WORLD CUP, so we talk world cup.
Are you expecting us to say “oh well, we haven’t won too many games against the all blacks, let’s stop supporting the boks at the world cup’?? Maybe in kiwi culture that is an acceptable approach, but we’re the Japies of Afrika and over here, even our women have balls!
29 Sep 2011, 15:10 pm
Adriaan Basson
Open letter to AfriForum CEO Kallie Kriel
If one will always have to feel white first, and African second, it would be better not to stay on in Africa. It would not be worth it for this. – Nadine Gordimer
Dear Kallie,
Like you, I am a white Afrikaner who lives in Africa. I was glad to read in last week’s City Press that you identify yourself as “an African with a light complexion”.
I do too. I suspect, however, that we have vastly different interpretations of what it means to be an African Afrikaner in South Africa and on the position of Afrikaners in 2011.
You see yourself firstly as part of a minority group whose constitutional and human rights are being disregarded by the ANC. The premise of AfriForum’s campaigns is one of victimhood.
You regard the Afrikaners as a group under threat, a people whose basic rights to expression, association and movement are constantly being undermined by the black majority.
You want to struggle – in the courts, on the streets and in the legislature.This is a dangerous game, Kallie. You are not stupid, I know that.
So why are you refusing to present to your supporters a fairer, more balanced picture of your people’s position in South Africa today?
Is something more sinister at play? Is scaring people a more profitable tactic for AfriForum?
You know as well as I do that the Afrikaner’s cultural, religious and linguistic identity is not under threat. When I visit the Potchefstroom or Oudtshoorn arts festivals, I don’t see people who are suppressed.
In fact, they look happier to me than they were in 1994.
Have you heard of Afrikaner author Deon Meyer’s phenomenal success? We write what we like, Kallie.
You referred to the right-wing publication Die Afrikaner in your interview with us. Would an oppressive regime, hellbent on suppressing its minorities, allow such a publication to appear?
I think not.
You (and Judge Colin Lamont) use the very narrow definition of numeracy to define minorities. Yes, numberwise the Afrikaner is a minority group.
But even the United Nations, whose Minorities Declaration of 1992 is repeated almost verbatim on AfriForum’s website, recognises numbers can never be the only determining factor when defining minorities.
The UN published a report titled “Minorities under international law” in which it specifically (and ironically) quoted the South African example: “In most instances, a minority group will be a numerical minority, but in others, a numerical majority may also find itself in a minority-like or non-dominant position, such as blacks under the apartheid regime in South Africa.”
Who knows why the ANC’s legal team didn’t make this point in the case you brought against them. I’m sure AfriForum would agree that poor black South Africans are in an even less dominant position than middle-class Afrikaners from Pretoria.Which brings me to crime.
Why does AfriForum focus largely on crime against whites when you know black, poor people are by far the most vulnerable members of society when it comes to violent crime?
I see your old foe, the Transvaal Agricultural Union, admitted last week that farm murders were down by almost 50% in the last financial year.*
I didn’t see a press statement from them or AfriForum on this.Isn’t there also a responsibility on a civil rights group to inform its members when things improve?
Isn’t there a risk we’ll have more Johan Nels – the young killer from Swartruggens who believed blacks were actively targeting whites in some form of genocide, and murdered four black people out of blind rage – if organisations like yours don’t inform and educate your supporters about what’s really going on?
Or is there some reason you don’t?
If they are a minority, then Afrikaners must be one of the most powerful, wealthy and diverse minorities on the planet.
Remember apartheid? The system that benefited your and my forbears to such an extent that we are still better off today than our black peers?
Have you had a look at the Sunday Times’ most recent Rich List published two weeks ago?
If you did, you would have seen that four Afrikaners – Christo Wiese (Shoprite), Laurie Dippenaar (FirstRand), Johann Rupert (Rembrandt) and GT Ferreira (RMB) – are included in the country’s top 10 richest people.And did you see who the top two earners were for 2010?
Shoprite CEO Whitey Basson (who earned R627 million) and BHP Billiton boss Marius Kloppers (R77 million) – two Afrikaners.
Did you discuss this with the members of AfriForum?
Surely it is not possible for people from a minority group who are suppressed to do business in their country of birth?
And have you asked Wiese, Dippenaar, Rupert and Ferreira whether they regard themselves as minorities? Have they addressed AfriForum’s membership on becoming a billionaire minority?
It doesn’t seem so when I look at your website.
I only see campaigns against Julius Malema, taxi drivers and Judge Nkola Motata (to your credit, you did commission a legal opinion on the Protection of Information Bill).
Did you see Stats SA’s latest Quarterly Labour Force Survey for 2011?
Did AfriForum tell its supporters that the year-on-year unemployment rate of white people was the only population group to have decreased?
Did you explain to them that 30% of adult blacks (four million people) are jobless, compared with 5% (105 000 people) of whites?
If not, why not?
I suppose you have to emphasise the “threats” to get your supporters to donate to your “Stop Malema” campaign.
This is speculation, but I’m guessing that AfriForum has close to zero legitimacy today for black South Africans (and thousands of whites).
I am not saying you shouldn’t have taken the Dubula ibhunu case to court, but I’m questioning why you decided to pick that case and insisted on a judgment, even when Lamont was trying his best to push for a settlement.
Even your own “Civil Rights Manifest” argues in favour of settlements.I am deeply concerned about the effect AfriForum’s actions are having on our society and this is why I’m writing this letter to you.
Your actions are having a polarising effect and you need to do serious introspection if you want to be respected as a civil rights group.
Otherwise, you risk being a racist lobby group. Is there any reason AfriForum has no black employees (according to your website) and, I assume, no black members?
Have you considered joining forces with other rights groups like Abahlali baseMjondolo, the South African shackdwellers’ movement?
Or even the Landless People’s Movement?
Or do you really only want to represent the rights of (a small group of) Afrikaners, even though your “Civil Rights Manifest” commits you to benefiting “all the citizens of South Africa”?
Do you always have to feel white first, and African second?
Best wishes,
Adriaan Basson
Adriaan Basson is the deputy editor of City Press. Follow on him Twitter: @AdriaanBasson
29 Sep 2011, 15:11 pm
@Atreides(Atreides)-390: not when it asks government to guarantee its bid to host world cup to the tune of £80 million to £100 million. on its own SARU can’t even smell that kinda money, they have to be accountable somewhat!
29 Sep 2011, 15:12 pm
@Helen(Helen)-393:
but to be fair to them, at least this time they will have to negotiate their way through the one and only team in town which (if you are able to do so) makes a world title, once won, a trully worthy one indeed.
29 Sep 2011, 15:14 pm
@reechie maak so lank die pan warm, bakkies bring die wors…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-406:
the pressure are huge on the all blacks
29 Sep 2011, 15:15 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-398:
Yes, New Zealand is full of caravans. I also heard that every house has a caravan that serves as a granny flat.
Not too many grannies live there though, so it’s mostly used for housing wide eyed Samoans who live in the shadows until they qualify for permanent residence and All Black colours
29 Sep 2011, 15:16 pm
@Helen(Helen)-403:
Well Helen, i have never had the priviledge to get that close to a South African women, they look so nice on the outside, but yet have hidden genetials that dont belong.
Never judge a book by its cover i suppose
29 Sep 2011, 15:16 pm
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-400: As long as WCs continue and no stupid moves made by whatever party, there always will be next time and you can be sure – once ****** is off the back, titles will come more frequently. The first step after the draught is always the harder, IMHO.
29 Sep 2011, 15:17 pm
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19(Fern)-401:
NZ has fantastic housing, you were hanging with the wrong people.
29 Sep 2011, 15:18 pm
Is this, at last, the thread for a catharsis or, better still , a day of catharsis; an act of personal purging or purification of the ‘soul’ (sole fits better)?
This quote, below, is the reason for my serious question:
” There will be arrogance among South African supporters ”
Why the sudden realisation, seeming acceptance and even guarded admission (by the right and might) to a state of mind I have referred to since time immemorial and from day one on this sad, highly prejudiced site and the last time in the form ” arrogant ‘Boer’ “?
Is there, by any stretch of the imagination, a sense of the approach of the great day of ” Doom and Gloom ” , that we witness this elimination of a psychological problem by bringing it to consciousness and even affording it expression?
Please set your fragile, frizzled minds at ease for ” Doom ” is not tomorrow as it will only be sometime in ‘ die maand Oktober’ and on or after the week-end of the 8/9th.
Since I only reason with reasonable people and plead with human people there is an unlikely need for me to respond to any query since, clearly, the most of you are tyrannical (simply put, tyrants).
29 Sep 2011, 15:18 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-409: You think Castor Semenya is a babe? Shhesh you need to get out a bit more mate.
29 Sep 2011, 15:18 pm
By Brian Moore6:30AM BST 28 Sep 2011 26 Comments
Former coach Laurie Mains added: “Why should your major stars be in a debt situation to make money for somebody else?” and continued: ” … on the world stage, the All Blacks are the No1 attraction” before saying, “It’s not your minnows, who are getting all the money, that makes it tick – it is the big five.”
He then astonishingly claimed: “All we want is what is best for world rugby. New Zealand and Australia tend to have to bang the table pretty hard at times to get people to listen. Our approach has always been to do things by negotiation and discussion and try to reach collaborative decisions, but ultimately you have to get something.”
If you had to pick a country to play in your national stadium the All Blacks might be that country. But the RFU fills Twickenham for games against South Africa, Australia and all Six Nations games.
As they cannot sell more than the capacity, all those other teams produce as much money as New Zealand, and therefore are their equal in terms of attraction.
Whilst New Zealand can claim to be a major attraction, they are well down the list in terms of economic powers in world rugby.The English contribute more than any other country which is why England were awarded the 2015 tournament and Japan the 2019 Rugby World Cup, once the IRB had made the erroneous decision to place the competition in New Zealand, a country without an economy capable of produce the kind of large surplus needed to develop the wider game.
If the people who are helping develop fledgling unions in Russia, Georgia and South East Asia manage to harness the great private and public wealth in these regions, then New Zealand will be well down the list in terms of rich rugby nations.
If they slide out of the big five economic powers, will they accept a reduction in their share of the pie? They should not bluster and bully now because they may regret it in years to come.
This explicit blackmail is only negotiation if you are Lord Palmerston and by the way, the reason there is not much money to go around to compensate for missed fixtures is because the tournament is in New Zealand.
If, as many other people wanted, it had been in Japan, even accounting for their difficulties, the IRB coffers would have been full.
The RWC existed well before Sanzar and the Tri-Nations and though diminished without them, it will survive their absence. I guess they don’t believe in the World in Union?
Not content with conniving with the IRB to screw the minnows by denying them competitive fixtures with major countries in between competitions; as well as making them play ludicrous tournament schedules; New Zealand now want to screw them further by doing greedy deals with sponsors.
Deals which will lessen the value of RWC’s commercial rights from which they are funded.
They want what is best for world rugby? Excuse us whilst we vomit.
29 Sep 2011, 15:19 pm
@Helen(Helen)-408:
Easy tiger I toured SOWETO in 96′ lets not start because you’ll lose.
29 Sep 2011, 15:19 pm
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19(Fern)-397:
same for carter (who imho is possibly the greastest fh of them all so far) who’ll have to live with being known as one of the greatest fh’s never to have won a wc.
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-400:
i honestly believe its their one and only shot they’ll have for a long, long time.
29 Sep 2011, 15:20 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-411:
Aus has much better housing.
Better salaries.
Better schooling.
I have a friend and she and her partner are proud maori,living in Aus.
She says she will not raise her kid in NZ because of the drugs and gang culture.
Kid was even born in Aus.
29 Sep 2011, 15:20 pm
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-404:
Thanks for this.
Us here on the rugby blog were actually wondering out loud this morning what Adriaan Basson’s perspective is on his pigmentation.
Now we know.
29 Sep 2011, 15:21 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-415:
96?
I was there on Monday…
a lot have changed.
29 Sep 2011, 15:21 pm
@ET.(ET.)-412: Is this, at last, the thread for …….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
29 Sep 2011, 15:21 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-413:
lol
Boy have i heard some stories about that person. I just dont know what to believe.
29 Sep 2011, 15:23 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-394:
Bok Pride will never die.
I still remember how it felt when England beat us 53 – 3. Then went on to beat us in 2003 Pool match, with NZ putting us out of our misery in the QF.
But Bok Pride prevailed. In 2004 we had a young team, our first match was against a confident Irish team, we sent them home tail between the legs.
Bok Pride took this team further as we won the 2004 title against all odds, one the most memorable victories against the AB’s when Bok Pride overcame NZ with Marius Joubert scoring 3, the first player to do this since Ray Mordt i believe?
In 2005 NZ came to Cape Town, strutting like a champion but again you felt the wrath of our pride with Carter having his worst game in the Black jersey.
2006 was forgettable, we got thrashed going down 49-0 to Australia. We went into mourning.
But 2007 came and we had a score to settle, with our previous RWC2003 failure and of course England.
Needless to say we took care of both, sweeping England 36-0 and going on to take the World Title.
Australia duely got a slice of Bok Pride as we trampled them 50+ or something in 2008.
So don’t you ever, accuse Boks of not having pride inbetween World Cups.
29 Sep 2011, 15:23 pm
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19(Fern)-417:
The drugs in NZ are fantastic apparently, a little expensive but good stuff.
29 Sep 2011, 15:24 pm
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19(Fern)-417:
The wage gap between NZ and Aus is getting out of hand.
You think the emmigration queues in SA are long, check out the local office of “Get me Outa here!” – a non-profit organisation helping wet and bored New Zealanders attain refugee status and a better life for their kids in Sri Lanka and Iraq
29 Sep 2011, 15:24 pm
@Helen(Helen)-418:
Its a well written piece,I wonder how many more Afrikaners share his sentiments.
29 Sep 2011, 15:25 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-423:
Vata you talking about?
29 Sep 2011, 15:25 pm
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19(Fern)-417:
lol
Gang culture.
It depends where you live ferny. Just like in SA. I am sure not every part of SA has gangs running the streets.
I am not saying i disagree with what you have said either. I know the wages etc is better in OZ, but Ozzies live there so its a tough one.
29 Sep 2011, 15:26 pm
@Helen(Helen)-408: what the HELL
29 Sep 2011, 15:26 pm
@Nils(Nils)-410:
NZ can’t be too sure their dominance will last forever, SA, Eng and Australia currently will have teams capable of displacing NZ at the top in the near future.
You have to sort out your RWC demons, we have to work on getting to your consistency level.
29 Sep 2011, 15:26 pm
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19(Fern)-419:
**** it would have needed to, i was uneasy with the driver packing a 9mm and showing me the bullet hole in his drivers door from the previous weeks shootout
29 Sep 2011, 15:27 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-420:
WTF is he even talking about?
Siily boy.
Another Spanish Crusader.
29 Sep 2011, 15:29 pm
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-425:
I don’t think many Afrikaners share his views.
Most of them are so liberal, they’re packing their bags, closing their business and extending their goodwill to the poor folk of inner Perth
29 Sep 2011, 15:29 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-420:
29 Sep 2011, 15:30 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-431: Nofuckingidea
29 Sep 2011, 15:31 pm
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-425: Many, many. More than Afriforum represents.
29 Sep 2011, 15:31 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-409:
Also, never judge a woman by the size of her balls.
29 Sep 2011, 15:31 pm
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-422:
Nice post but did you need a helping hand to get up on that horse?
All i said was pride seems to have dissapeared. Not meaning the Boks but i was actually talking about the supporters.
ON here a few have said, dont matter as long as the RWC is won by SA.
Question was, would you take 80% win ratio and one RWC over 65% win ratio for 2 RWCs.
Easy for me, i said the 80% win ratio and then all of a sudden i was set upon from the angry mob.
29 Sep 2011, 15:31 pm
Helen 403: j e s u s easy Helen!
29 Sep 2011, 15:32 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-414:
Hey why regurgitate old stuff that is not even yours?
Are you going for the new c & p king?
You posted this last night.
29 Sep 2011, 15:33 pm
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-429: Perhaps I did not express myself properly then – I just wanted to say that opportunities for ABs will come and psychological burden (which cannoot be denied) will be lessened after they finally win the cup for the first time since 1987. Of course, there always will be some other major players to reckon with.
29 Sep 2011, 15:34 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-437:
We can catch SA in WC’s but it will be a big big ask for them to catch our overall winning ratio and the AB / Bokke ratio.
29 Sep 2011, 15:34 pm
@ET.(ET.)-439: yes, because you never repeat youselfzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
29 Sep 2011, 15:35 pm
@ET.(ET.)-439:
I believe HG has this for his wallpaper. Even a screen saver as it flashes in different neon lights.
29 Sep 2011, 15:35 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-427:
How many kangaroos does it take to paint a wall red?
Depends on how hard you throw them.
29 Sep 2011, 15:36 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-441:
Thats right.
They only one cup ahead. WE are atleast 10 games ahead on the win ratio
29 Sep 2011, 15:37 pm
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-429: While agreeing on potential big danger coming from Boks/Wallabies (which everybody knows anyway) I do not think English have anything to trouble ABs too much at present. I really think that ABs should deal with them at home with at least 15 point safety cushion. At the very least, unless biblical rains come down preventing scoring.
29 Sep 2011, 15:38 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-437:
I’m hardly a ‘mob’.
29 Sep 2011, 15:38 pm
@Helen(Helen)-444:
I would throw them under arm.
Just like the ozzie criketeers
29 Sep 2011, 15:38 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-445:
The overall ratio they will never catch too far gone now but credit to them two WC’s is a tough ask.
29 Sep 2011, 15:40 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-448:
Or with a bent arm like the Pakistanis
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