PdV: Bruising clash a boost
30 Sep 2011
Peter de Villiers says that Friday’s clash served as ideal preparation for the quarter-finals but doubts the Wallabies or All Blacks will be as physical as Samoa.
The Boks controlled the game in the first stanza but barely managed to keep the islanders at bay in the final quarter. They have now won all four of their pool games, but are yet to deliver a performance worthy of title-contenders.
Despite the obvious failings, the Springbok coach was in high spirits following South Africa’s 13-5 win at North Harbour Stadium.
‘We didn’t plan for it, but this kind of preparation will be valuable for us going forward in the tournament. You will never find a more physical game again in the World Cup,’ said De Villiers.
‘We knew they’d be up for it, we knew they’d be confrontational. They beat Australia three months ago and they gave Wales a good game. It was brilliant that we could beat them.
‘I think we played the complete game tonight. We attacked in the first half and then our defence didn’t let us down in the second. We were under more pressure in the second. I thought our decision making was good.’
De Villiers comments are not in synch with the stats. The Boks blew a series of attacking opportunities in the first half, and missed 21 tackles in the second.
Bok captain Victor Matfield also felt the nature of this contest would benefit the side going forward. Unless Italy upset Ireland, the Boks will play the Wallabies in the quarter-final, a team that outmuscled them when the sides last met in Durban.
The Boks will also be hoping that injuries sustained in this clash don’t preclude the first-choice stars from next week’s do-or-die clash.
‘It was very physical and we’re happy we’ve got some preparation in that respect, but then you lose a bit with regards to injuries. We may have to take an extra day to recover,’ said Matfield.
Both the South Africans and the Samoans expressed their disappointment in referee Nigel Owens. The game was an ill-tempered contest, and culminated in a red card for Samoa fullback Paul Williams, and a yellow card for Bok hooker John Smit.
Matfield maintains that the Boks showed good discipline, and stayed out of the off-the-ball ‘crap’. Coach De Villiers said Smit should never have been carded for a deliberate knock down when Samoa were on attack in the 69th minute.
‘It was a stupid, stupid decision to get him off the field there,’ said De Villiers. ‘He didn’t deserve that yellow card. But then again in the heat of the game we aren’t here to judge referees. He will sit and watch the game and he will make up his own mind. He will say he’s justified.’
Some will say that Samoa should view it as a moral victory to have pushed the defending champions so close. Samoa captain Mahonri Schwalger, however, said there was a lot of disappointment in the changing room after the game.
He felt that Owens was inconsistent at the breakdown and never should have sent off Williams for his alleged punch on Heinrich Brussow.
‘The ref was pretty hard on us,’ said Schwalger. ‘A few calls on the field… well we thought if it goes our way we would be able to put more points on the board.
‘A lot of the time they were slowing our ball down. For me, the ref has got to give us a chance as well. I felt it was one-way. Even in the scrum they cheated a little bit. Unfortunately we can’t change the result.
‘As for the sending off, there was a bit of acting there. There was nothing in that. To give him a red card, that was a little bit harsh.’
Samoa assistant coach Aussie MacLean was also in no mood to talk about moral victories. Asked it Samoa had shown the All Blacks how to beat the Boks, he said: ‘I don’t want to go down that track, because now that we’re out, I want the All Blacks to beat them.’
By Jon Cardinelli, at North Harbour Stadium
118 Comments
30 Sep 2011, 13:46 pm
Dragons
30 Sep 2011, 13:46 pm
” You will never find a more physical game again in the World Cup,’ said De Villiers.”
Krusty been chasing the dragon again ?
30 Sep 2011, 13:47 pm
Several injury concerns.
I’m most concerned about JP… he was not looking happy at all for the last quarter.
30 Sep 2011, 13:47 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-2:
So you don’t agree?
30 Sep 2011, 13:48 pm
Matfield is not a test quality captain and is responsible for allowing the
gameplan to unravel in the second half. If we don’t keep our discipline
against Aus QF will be our exit.
30 Sep 2011, 13:48 pm
Samoa assistant coach Aussie MacLean was also in no mood to talk about moral victories. Asked it Samoa had shown the All Blacks how to beat the Boks, he said: ‘I don’t want to go down that track, because now that we’re out, I want the All Blacks to beat them.
Thats right. Run to big brother and tell.
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-2: You missed out coz you were trying to be fancy. Keep it simple, like @Greenbok(greenbok)-1:
This serves as good advice for winning World Cups as well.
30 Sep 2011, 13:50 pm
@mellow(mellow)-5: No worries. Never in a millions years of Sunday’s can AUS play that kind of a physical game. Whereas they might take us in other respects – they won’t bring the same game as Samoa, and thus, we won’t play in the same manner against them as we did today…
Cannot read much of anything into this game, in regards to the QF, imo.
30 Sep 2011, 13:50 pm
PdV is the most stupid domkop coach out. How can you be satisfied with that performance? Please someone just gag and get rid of this clown. He has an IQ of 60!
30 Sep 2011, 13:52 pm
@Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-8: Yawn.
30 Sep 2011, 13:52 pm
Way to many high takles going unpunished .Samoa does not play in the rules
30 Sep 2011, 13:54 pm
Div and I never seem to be watching the same game.
30 Sep 2011, 13:55 pm
@Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-8: Do you want Div to say that Bokke are useless ?
30 Sep 2011, 14:04 pm
Boks weren’t at their best, but another case of when we play better we’ll be much harder to stop. They are capable of performing a lot better, and will.
As for Samoa. They should be hanging their heads in shame. They would’ve had a much better chance if they tried to play positively. Instead they resorted to high tackles, holding players down and throwing punches. It was pretty obvious Paul Williams learnt his rugby in New Zealand – probably had Richie McCaw teaching him the proper way of holding onto a players jersey.
And then Schwalger has the nerve to say the referee favoured the Boks? That they cheated in the scrums and were breaking the rules at the breakdown? Obviously he doesn’t understand the rules then, which would make sense considering his contribution on the field. He should’ve been the first one sent off for striking Jannie du Plessis in the face.
Boks get a B-
Samoa get an F for their attitude towards the game. Pathetic.
30 Sep 2011, 14:08 pm
In the context of the opposition – poor game, Samoa did not allow the Boks to play or the Boks were eyeing another 50 pointer and put pressure on themselves to score plenty tries.
In the context of the WC – good result. After Namibia and element of over-confidence crept into the language. This is a timely reminder that 85 minutes of concentration and patience is needed.
Bottomline – poor game, champions dominate and execute flawlessly, converting every opportunity into points.
30 Sep 2011, 14:10 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-2:
no, what he’s really saying is that was probably the dirtiest game so far against the second dirtiest team in the comp. this should in all likelihood be the last dirty game played as nz and oz will not risk penalties or reds &yellows against the boks in a knockout (the dirties team of course being the all black…in case your wondering…).
30 Sep 2011, 14:13 pm
@Bottomline(Bottomline)-14:
Yup I’m liking our build-up. We all know we can beat Australia and New Zealand on the day. This would’ve been a good wake-up call and act as a ‘refresher’ considering the Boks have had a fair bit of time off since the Namibia game.
I can’t see us losing to Australia, so hopefully we build a bit of momentum from there with a good display. Control the game and we’ll be fine. I thought they didn’t stick to what worked in the first half, which meant having Morne Steyn on the field became completely unnecessary.
30 Sep 2011, 14:21 pm
Well said PDV
30 Sep 2011, 14:24 pm
The boks gameplan and execution of it was poor. They should have kept the ball away from Samoa in the 2nd half after they got their tailes up. The boks didnt get the ball and when we did we kicked it away with useless up & unders, so the samoans could run everytime putting the boks under pressure.
Im dissapointed in the way the Samoans started playing after about 20 mins with cheap shots and off the ball incidents.
Nigel Owens was poor both ways. The breakdowns were in shambles. Samoa should have gotten 20 penalties against them for entering from the side, falling over the ball and holding onto the ball when we had players trying to rip the bal just to have the boks penalised for “hands on” in the ruck.
How many times did the touch judges correct mistakes Owens didnt or didnt want to see. Samoa had 2 knockons and 2 forward passes in the last ten minutes thast went unnoticed by the ref.
However i still feel the Boks are too strong for Aus. I couldnt see Aus winnning against Samoa today. Poor showing by boks, but still good enough to win where i think other bok teams could have lost this one.
30 Sep 2011, 14:24 pm
Not sure what everyone one is going on about, this is a very good Samoan team. They beat Aus in Aus. Neither the boks or AB’s could do that. They came within a whisker of beating Wales who at this point look the strongest NH team. The samoan team had nothing to lose in the second half and they threw everything they had at the boks and the boks handled it. That’s what knockout rugby is about, handling the pressure. Can the AB’s handle the pressure?? They could not handle it when France had nothing to lose in previous WC’s.
I thought it was a very good victory, granted we tried to defend our lead a bit too much in the second half and it was poor tactics by the coaches to implement a kicking game in the second half against the wind but we still won. WC rugby is not about big victories.
30 Sep 2011, 14:27 pm
Smaoans sound like bad losers. No red card for a punch? What’s he smoking. Ref could’ve taken niggle out of game first twenty minutes by sending 5 for Samoa off after one warning, second official warning then a third, pathetic.
30 Sep 2011, 14:27 pm
Shocker from Samoa. Disgusting play.
Hang you heads in shame.
30 Sep 2011, 14:29 pm
@Sonito(Sonito)-19:
They weren’t half bad, you are right. Still think we should’ve beaten them more comfortably considering most of them are New Zealand ITM Cup players who sit on the reserves bench in the Super 15…
We’ll be better against Australia.
30 Sep 2011, 14:29 pm
@Rentals(FrenklyMuDeah)-20:
Yes. Ref should have sorted out.
I thought Boks played really well. Handle the situation well.
30 Sep 2011, 14:31 pm
@Rentals(FrenklyMuDeah)-20:
That 5 lock of theirs deserved at least a yellow for the way he was carrying on as well.
Congratulations to the Boks team for not retaliating I say. Not often you see a Springbok team who put up with this sort of thing. If Bakkies was on the field he’d have probably been facing a ban
30 Sep 2011, 14:31 pm
One little slap in the face with an open-hand and suddenly the Samoans are “dirty” ?
Justice4 the Gougers !
30 Sep 2011, 14:31 pm
no way the boks will beat the Aussie if they have a full back line. Rush defence won’t work against Cooper even less against Carter if they get that far. Steyn at inside centre just doesn’t work as he is very much a “ball under the arm and take it up player” but you do need him for the big boot. You could see that he can’t get the outside backs going cause whenever he plays next to Jacques. Jacques is quiet. So whats the answer? Drop Lambie and put him at the back? but then the back 3 don’t have any x factor. So should Aplon be playing and then who would you drop? Habana? JP? Then there is still the hougaard problem. Fact of the matter is you can’t play Steyn at inside centre against quality opposition as Morne steyn lays to deep and Steyn never gets the outside backs away.
30 Sep 2011, 14:33 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-25:
High tackles that went unpenalised? That lock throwing a punch?
It wasn’t a slap in the face either. It was a strike to the head with an open hand. A slap to the face would be ‘across’ the face, not right into it.
I understand that Samoa is like an All Blacks C team though, which is why you are willing to make a fool out of yourself to defend them.
30 Sep 2011, 14:34 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-25: Go and piss in your own beer inbred!!
30 Sep 2011, 14:35 pm
Review of match from Rugby365:
The off the ball stuff – head-high hits, late hits, grappling around the necks and punching – showed there was clearly malicious intent.
Fullback Paul Williams was eventually red-carded in the 69th minute – the card probably coming 60 minutes too late, considering the number of times Owens spoke to the Samoans about off the ball infringements without doing anything. It is also not surprising that the card eventually came from one of his assistants.
The referee – who touts himself as a part-time comedian – virtually gave the Samoans license to infringe, while the yellow card for John Smit was also a disgrace.
That said, the Boks did well to maintain their discipline in the face of such negative and unsportsmanlike tactics.
Think says it all, Owens should be banned from reffing again. Watched replay, he was worse second time round.
30 Sep 2011, 14:35 pm
@Suspence(Suspence)-26:
Poor insight. I’d rather listen to a kiwis perspective. I think you’ve oversimplified this far too much.
30 Sep 2011, 14:35 pm
The ’95 Samoan side said a similar thing, “The All Blacks will beat them”.
Well, well you guys are just so gracious in defeat. Why don’t you just all F@$% off to your homeland, New Zealand?? What a disgrace.
“For me, the ref has got to give us a chance as well. I felt it was one-way. Even in the scrum they cheated a little bit.” Come on!!!!
Enjoy supporting the Kiwi’s from the sidelines. Arsewipes.
30 Sep 2011, 14:37 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-24: its a blessing in disguise that Bakkies didnt play, i think he would have been carded today.
30 Sep 2011, 14:37 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-27:
I must say, it IS somewhat amusing to hear Bok fans complaining about physicality
go wear your hearts on your sleeve
if theres any room left below the armband.
30 Sep 2011, 14:39 pm
@Rentals(FrenklyMuDeah)-29:
You won’t hear anyone complain about it though. Samoan rugby is basicly a part of NZ rugby. Most of their team comes from NZ players who don’t make the All Blacks.
That stupid vvhore Melodie Robinson had the nerve to make out as if Paul Williams hadn’t done anything wrong. Poor commentating. But I have to give credit to Ian Jones. He’s the only neutral one on the Sky analysis team. The woman and Jeremy Paul should be taken out the back and shot.
30 Sep 2011, 14:39 pm
@hendrikp So why do you think the backline never gets a chance to get the bal lto the wings, Despite Morne’s kicking game? Maybe the boks need to go back to a more simple game couldn’t hurt don’t you think?
30 Sep 2011, 14:39 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-31: Its easy for the Samoan captain to complain about the boks, when their team got off lightly from this ****** ref.
30 Sep 2011, 14:40 pm
sorry about the spelling my fault
30 Sep 2011, 14:42 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-33:
Oh dear. I was very happy with the physicality of the game. Perfect heading into the game with Australia.
But there is a difference between being physical and being dirty.
Yes, the Springboks have a reputation for the latter, but today they played a hard game, while the Samoans went out of their way to play dirty rugby, and then dare complain about the referee at the end.
Today, we have reason to complain, just as you lot have done in the past.
30 Sep 2011, 14:42 pm
cheap shot filthy Samoan pigs. bunch of inbred retarded islanders. much like the kiwis actually. .. pathetic dirty play and well done to the Boks for not reacting.
30 Sep 2011, 14:44 pm
oh yeah – nothing worse than b!tching after the game and being a sore loser – Samoans have NO class… NONE
30 Sep 2011, 14:44 pm
John Smit is still our best captain and hooker.(scrums and line outs)
The boks went into this game, to win and minimise injuries to their most important players.
Do we want to beat samoa 50-0. WHY. THIS game was just a formality to get the win.
PDV were alreaady planning for Australia.
30 Sep 2011, 14:44 pm
@Suspence(Suspence)-35: ” So why do you think the backline never gets a chance to get the bal lto the wings,”
I think the bok gameplan is wrong. What they should do is run it up with the tight forwars and loosies for a couple af fases and then sending it wide where the backline should do a move or something instead of just swinging it and hope theres a gap. Bok backline should be more creative, hence no place for morne Steyn.
30 Sep 2011, 14:47 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-34:
anonymous bloggers who degrade defenceless women as “wh*res” are the ones who “deserve to be shot”.
Where’s Cli Che Guevera and his Moral Police when we need them ?
30 Sep 2011, 14:47 pm
@Suspence(Suspence)-35:
Game plan mate. The Boks aren’t interested in taking on opposition sides at their own game, when their strengths lie elsewhere.
If we play like we did in the first half against Samoa, we’ll be a very hard team to beat. The All Blacks and Australia aren’t going to score many if any 50m+ tries against us, so as long as we keep the ball in their half, even if it means kicking it down there, chase the kicks a lot better then we did in the 2nd half, and defend well, I can see us winning it again.
So execution is the problem. Forget about a running game.
FYI, I’d select Frans at fullback with Jean at 12 & Lambie on the bench. Think it gives our defense more structure and also a more secure boot at fullback. Frans more useful at the back if we intend to kick quite a bit.
30 Sep 2011, 14:49 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-38:
so tell us, Moral High Priest – whats the difference between ‘physicality’ and ‘dirty play’ ?
who was the last Samoan found guilty of gouging ?
cut the cr@p, youre heading downhill in to a cul de sac
30 Sep 2011, 14:49 pm
@adi(adi)-41: Agree.
Who should start at 2 = Smit, no question.
We need to hold the ball for longer periods and build up pressure.
Our attacking scrum moves were terrible, even with good go forward – I mean is a maul move from a scrum a clever move????
Lambie is solid at the back, I mean what other 15 in SA would have stopped that 14?
30 Sep 2011, 14:50 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-43:
Meh maybe a little over the top, but she made my blood boil
Should take Stuart Barnes passport from him. Then we’d get some good analysis. Send Mexted & Robinson over to Europe, and fire Jeremy Paul because all he wants to do is talk about Australia.
30 Sep 2011, 14:52 pm
I agree with Frans at fullback and Jean at 12, my point exactly the reason I said Steyn is a problem at center is not about trying to develop a running game, too late for that now just saying it would be a nice option to have, right now the boks are pretty one-dimensional with just having the kick chase plan but in the same breath I understand that thats basically all they have. Execution was a problem today with regards to the kciking fair enough. The problem that I have with it is that if it doesn’t work they kinda stuck, it’s not like they can pick and drive for 40+ minutes
30 Sep 2011, 14:53 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-45:
There is no difference? Okay then. So to be a physical rugby side you have to eye gouge, make head-high tackles and punch the opposition in the face?
I don’t care whether they gouged or not. Did the Springboks eye-gouge on the night? We didn’t get involved in any of that nonsense on the night. Forget about the past. At the moment, the Samoans went the wrong way about it.
30 Sep 2011, 14:53 pm
Other thing I was going to say is yes true the AB’s arn’t going to 50+ m tries against the boks but if the go 7-10 points up do you think the boks can ree them in with a kick and chase or bash it up through the centres game? Just concerning thats all.
30 Sep 2011, 14:55 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-44: Your backline is lookin far more creative with Frans at 12 – why cant the SA public see that Frans is probably one of the best 12 in the world , far more than slow as a troll JDV whos only claim to fame is intercepting ( lets be honest ) …. Do you know that Robbie Deans tried to sign Frans as a 17 year old for the Saders – show s what the best franchise in world rugby thinks of him .
30 Sep 2011, 14:55 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-46:
Smit must start???
Based on what .. the 2 min he spent on the field?
Bissey lost two lineouts .. one was a good jump from the Somoa lock, the other was just a cluster f** with comunication.
Smit lost one for being on holiday and getting blown up.
The scrums were very solid with Bismark there.
So please, tell us why.
30 Sep 2011, 14:56 pm
@Suspence(Suspence)-48:
They put all their eggs in one basket, yes.
If it doesn’t come off on the day, they can forget about making the final.
But like many NFL coaches always say. Something along the lines of “They know what we’re going to do, but they’ve still got to stop us”
And playing the game in opposition territory is always going to put you in with a chance.
I’d be more worried about the defensive effort and effective kick-chasing then whether we can vary our game in attack.
30 Sep 2011, 14:56 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-47:
JP is excellent.
Phil Kearns is funny too.
Maybe its the sense of humour that throws you.
Noone even gets Muzzas jokes. Not even Muzza knows what he’s saying half the time.
pretty sick call on Melodie tho. Maybe a chick who knows her footy sits uncomfortably with you. Like when its the opposition being ‘physical’.
Pass the Tui’s.
30 Sep 2011, 14:57 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-44: I’d like to see more low kicks for territory. The bomb has its place, but its over used. Also lets hold onto the ball through a few more phases and build some pressure and momentum.
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-45: The last time we played Samoa they faked an eye-gouge though. Some front-row ar$ewipe tried to get Frans carded, at the citing he then said he was faking.
They are a classless lot, I mean look at the tweating twit.
Keep up the confident smirk.
30 Sep 2011, 14:58 pm
point taken
30 Sep 2011, 14:58 pm
@stew(stew)-51:
Mate, I know what a great player Frans is. I also know that he was in NZ for that academy week and that the Crusaders tried to sign him yes.
But at the moment, considering what we’re trying to do and Lambie’s inexperience, we’d be best off sticking with him at 15 until the end of the WC.
Jean de Villiers is a much better defender then many people realise, and we can use Frans boot at the back if we’re going to continue with this approach.
30 Sep 2011, 15:03 pm
I’d also go with Jean at 12 and have Steyn at the back with Lambie or Aplon on the bench, probally Aplon instead of Lambie as he can cover wing as well. The advantage of having Steyn at the back is that if the Aussie’s or AB’s get sucked into a kicking for the corners game which I doubt they would, then at least Steyn can put in a good clearance. Playing him at 12 sort of nulifies his defensive abilities with the boot and when you playing a defensive game plan you need that at the back. Nothing wrong with Jean’s tackling and defensive capabilities
30 Sep 2011, 15:03 pm
@Paws(Paws)-52: Well it was more about what happened when he wasn’t there. Our tactics were pretty bad, some bad decisions, lost lineouts, I’m sorry but 2 against Samoa is not right. Also what does John bring as impact? Bissie is so musch more suited to the bench at this stage. I’d say that Bissies performance was by far his weakest of the WC 2011? Would you agree. I’d say he was better against Wales and Fiji coming off the bench.
30 Sep 2011, 15:04 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-57: Honestly – you won the WC with Steyn at 12 and i have never seen the Bok backline look as good … In the quarters and semis you are going to be up against the best backlines in the world , SBW has already destroyed JDV and Fourie twice in S15 , what makes you reckon he wont do it again ????
30 Sep 2011, 15:04 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-54:
It’s not a woman thing. It’s just her. Makes snarly comments. Clearly favors PI nations which really bothers me. I’m sure SA commentators do the same, but I don’t have to listen to them.
What happened to Ian Smith?
As for Australian commentators. I enjoy most of them. Phil Kearns included. He makes a lot of ‘Australian’ calls but then follows up with what he actually thinks. And who is the old man? He’s quite good. But Jeremy Paul is a joke. Not sure why he was employed because there’s no insight. Just harps on about Australia.
@Suspence(Suspence)-56:
Don’t worry about this Bok team. If anything the Samoan game pointed out where we needed to improve. I’d say we’re a better then 50% chance to knock over Australia.
30 Sep 2011, 15:05 pm
@Suspence(Suspence)-58: Aplon?? You’ve got Hougaard (hopefully) covering wing.
30 Sep 2011, 15:05 pm
I think PDV is correct this was perfect prep. We played a side fighting for survival. It was always going to be hard. The Boks did well. i just watched the game again and it was a controlled effort against a rampant side playing to remain in the contest against a side assured of progress. They did enough to win and that for me is the perfect way to play a world cup game.
Well done boys!
30 Sep 2011, 15:06 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-55:
which ‘confident smirk’ would that be ?
you mean like the ones after the Boks match vs the worst, most talent-depleted, Fiji team ever to have a graced a RWC ?
The Boks, Aussies and French were always going to be the ABs toughest opponents. The only difference is, the Boks havent even played a Tier 1 nation yet and have been beating their chests for weeks already.
The Boks were just kept scoreless for an entire 2ndH of a RWC match against 1 of the sports Tier-2 nations. And yet youre talking ‘smirks’ ?!
30 Sep 2011, 15:08 pm
Do you guys think Lambie played badly today , IMO he impressed me today
30 Sep 2011, 15:08 pm
@stew(stew)-60:
SBW destroyed them? You’re dreaming man. Was completely ineffective against the Stormers, and had an average game against the Springboks that included 2 tries that should’ve been scored, but he was a ball hog.
Stormers defensive record says it all.
I would love to have Frans at 12, but I think it’s more important to have a boot at the back, and I’m confident Jean will be able to do a good job at 12, especially straightening the line which we could use.
It’s a tough choice, but Lambie being inexperienced… not knowing exactly what we’re going to get from him, makes me lean towards Jean at 12 and Frans at 15.
30 Sep 2011, 15:10 pm
@stew(stew)-65:
I thought he did very well with ball in hand. It’s the off the ball things I’d like to see him improve on. He’s got a long future with the Springboks, but not as a starter this year for me.
30 Sep 2011, 15:12 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-64: Exactly my point, listen to yourself – the boks have won 4 from 4 and NZ will have won 4 from 4. What makes you believe the All Blacks have done so much better than the boks? BPs are there for teams who lose. A win is still a win. Are NZ more likely to win now, because they have steam rolled everyone in their pool? I’d argue the opposite. NZ always look great in a WC up untill the match they lose.
P.S. Lets see how far Wales get in this comp shall we.
30 Sep 2011, 15:13 pm
@ Ratel Brussow, I’d have Hougaard on the field and Aplon on the bench
30 Sep 2011, 15:13 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-59:
Bismark is a very good player, but he looks even extra good when he comes on for john because of smits almost zero impact level … it’s like going from 0 – 100 in one move.
In that case, start with Bismark and sub with chilly if that is really necessary .. atleast keep some intencity than lose most of it.
Give credit where credit is due, the one lineout lose was a good steal by the samoan .. the other, that was just plain poor on the hooker and lock.
Bissey was good in hard brutal game where he did his work in the engin room very well. So yes, not as spectacular as in the last two cameo appearances, but a solid good game .. and his dicipline was good. Him and Brussow gives any team headaches on the ground. So, I’d start with Bissey, and have Chilly as cover … there is enogh good leadership in the team, we don’t need smit there for that reason .. the Wales game being a point, no smit or matfield the last 20 min, and that was when the game was won.
30 Sep 2011, 15:13 pm
@stew(stew)-65: I thought he was brilliant. Positionally, defensively and even a few nice breaks on attack.
30 Sep 2011, 15:13 pm
So its either “a win’s a win, we’re building for the big games” or “beating the Samoans by so small a margin shows the boks are yesterday’s team”.
I don’t understand how the “at win’s a win” crowd don’t find anything of concern in our execution, and our diminished physicality and lack of penetration. Do they think the boks will miraculously produce these qualities when required? I might have thought that before the last couple of years of test matches, but now I think we don’t have that much left in the tank. This wasn’t a case of the boks’ physicality pressurising the Samoans until the dam breaks, this was more a case of the boks battling to hang in there in the 4th qtr. Its still a strong team, but the core of it have played too many games, and the tactics have remained static for too long.
30 Sep 2011, 15:14 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-66: Now you are taking **** – did you watch the games obviously not – go check robbie frueans try on you tube and then talk about the Stormers awesome defensive record – time for you to wake up mate.
JDV has always been overrated in my opinion and i really think his time has come and gone – please play JDV against us in the semis please pretty springboks !!! That is how much i fear Steyn at 12
30 Sep 2011, 15:16 pm
@Paws(Paws)-70: Okay, we’ll just agree to disagree then. John IMO has regained a lot of his form and IMO his leadership was sorely missed this game. He’s not a bench player, but he does bring structure to our setup – something we rely on. Bissie is awesome in the last 20, so whats the problem?
30 Sep 2011, 15:18 pm
@Paws(Paws)-70: Actually, I’m sorry, I think your chilli statement is naive.
Sorry, I do. I don’t think there is a coach in the world that would do that right now.
30 Sep 2011, 15:20 pm
@stew(stew)-73:
Funny that many top rugby analysts often put JdV up there as one of the better 12′s. It’s a very difficult position to play in, which explains why there aren’t many good ones.
You lot back Nonu, but it won’t get you far against a strong defense because he doesn’t have much else to his game, and SBW has had some shockers as well, and they obviously have an issue with him not running at the line hard enough (as he’s always looking to hold the ball up before offloading).
Just because you don’t agree, don’t go telling me to wake up. Lose the arrogance. And don’t pretend JdV is half as bad as you’re making out either. Not long ago many said him and Fourie were the best centre pairing in world rugby.
30 Sep 2011, 15:21 pm
John Smit has lost more line outs at crucial moments for us than any human being who has ever lived or ever will live.
Not only is he non-impact he is actually impact for the other team.
30 Sep 2011, 15:21 pm
@aylen(aylen)-72: Lots to work on. Especially scrum set moves. I’ve never seen such poor use of the space around an attacking scrum. Unforgiveable at international level. Also we need to hold onto the ball more and build pressure and momentum and finally a kicking game is one thing, but bombs are not the only kicks are they?
30 Sep 2011, 15:21 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-74:
John first half, Bissie coming on just after half-time for me.
I like Bismarck when he’s been watching the game from the sidelines. Seems to get him fired up and he is completely unstoppable after that.
30 Sep 2011, 15:23 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-77:
Yawn.
Not nearly as bad as you make out. Just not as good as Bismarck. Don’t let your dislike blur your vision.
30 Sep 2011, 15:24 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-74:
I prefer good / very good for 80 min to average for 60 min and then awesome in the last 20 min.
Did you notice our structure went for a ball of sh*t in the second half .. I just wonder what instructions were given at half time.
Matfield is as good a capt as smit, his record at Super and Int level speaks to that .. and then there is du Preeu and Burger, so to me the captaincey is really a none issue.
In all honesty, the Boks have looked lost at sea for most of 2010 and 2011 with smit at the helm .. 9 out of our last 10 TN matches lost under his guidence if I recall.
30 Sep 2011, 15:26 pm
@Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-75:
In all honesty I’d have Strauss from the Cheetahs as my second hooker .. but I’m just going with what is there at the momment.
30 Sep 2011, 15:30 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-79: Perfect.
30 Sep 2011, 15:30 pm
@Paws(Paws)-81:
Matfield is a decent captain, but he doesn’t take on the same responsibilities as Smit. Smit is a more natural leader. If I had to pick between him and Bismarck for an entire game, I’d go with Smit simply because I’m one of those who believe that his leadership… his relationship with the players, makes him irreplacable.
Matfield is part of the Old Boys club. He looks after his own. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was one of the guys telling Francois Steyn that he shouldn’t be there ahead of Johan Roets… but he was almost surely part of that group.
Whereas Smit is a genuine professional leader. The type no one can walk away from and not respect.
30 Sep 2011, 15:32 pm
@Paws(Paws)-82:
Chilliboy not do it for you? He had a pretty darn good Super 15, when he wasn’t being forced to rotate with Gary Botha.
But I like Strauss as well. He’s going to be a good 3rd-choice hooker next year, so if there are any injuries we have depth.
30 Sep 2011, 15:56 pm
I agree with Twakkie here….this was as physical game as one will ever encounter. I seriously believe that this physicality will be too much for the Aussies.
The samoans are fast becoming the vuilgat side of rugby…..how much went on off the ball, shoulder tackles,head high and around the neck.
the ref has plenty to answer for, doubt he’ll be around for many more WC games.
Regardless of our second half performance with ball in hand I’m quietly content with what went on out there.
One serious issue is that our outside backs need to stand a little deeper if we are serious about keeping the ball when under the cosh. Morne is left with very few options other than to hoof it when the defence is charging him and 12 and the outside backs are all standing too flat. Making a pass then would be nothing but a hospital pass. The fullback or opposite side winger could even be used a lot more running around the back of our flyhalf helping to distribute the ball or attacking an undefended angle. Also,I thought a lot of our kicks were pretty good but our chasing today was pish.
I’d still start with Smit as 2…bismark brings a lot from the bench and his lineout is still a weakness in his game.
Personally I can’t see jean devilliers making a match 22 if I was coach. Bakkies needs to seriously prove his fitness otherwise I’d leave him out as well. Would be good to have him because Danie Roussow also brings a lot from the bench.
All in all, I think this was a good hit out under very trying circumstances with a pish poor reffing performance. For the record, I don’t think it was a red but a yellow and John’s yellow was in the very worst case senario penalty at most.
One also needs to take into account that this samoan performance was way superior to what they dished up against the welsh particularly as having their 10 back makes a huge difference, he was their best player in my opinion.
30 Sep 2011, 16:00 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-86:
Would like to know exactly how many times Danie Rossouw has knocked on the ball this year in a Springbok jersey.
Personally I like Rossouw as a ball-carrying lock, but I don’t think he’s the right type of lock we need for the starting line-up. He’s too slow in support of the ball-carrier and makes too many mistakes to be starting.
30 Sep 2011, 16:01 pm
I’m out. Have a good afternoon all.
30 Sep 2011, 16:08 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-87:
I agree, Bakkies is better starting for us with danie off the wood.
30 Sep 2011, 16:09 pm
Boks were poor in the 2nd half and could easily have lost this game. As for Samoa are a bloody disgrace to the spirit of the game and the RWC. It pleases me to no end that these pricks are going home. The irony is if they arrived to play rugby they could have won. Good riddence to rubbish. Go Booke
30 Sep 2011, 16:40 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-87:
i Agree.But funny thing is Rossouw is actually very mobile and quicker most of the locks around.His ball skills are excellent in space and his lines as a carrier are very good esp off the shoulder of du Preez with short delayed ball.
but Rossouw is erratic at best,his focus as well as his TECHNIQUE in everything he does is average at best of times. At the collision point he either gets it spot on or horribly wrong.There is no modicum of consistently in him game,even within a 80 min performance.He goes from brilliant to AVERAGE at the drop of a hat.
Great squad member though.
Great team man.
30 Sep 2011, 17:35 pm
Against Oz we’ll go for a 4-3 bench.
It will look like this;
Beast
Bismark
Alberts (reckon Bakkies won’t be fit. He might be risked but i don’t think its worth the trouble)
Alberts/Louw
Hougaard
Lambie
Butch
Starting 15 is easy to pick
Guthro
Smit
Jannie
DR
Victor
HB
Schalla
Spies ( the coach loves to bits. cannot understand why this the case)
FdP (though he had a poor game he will start)
Morne
Habana
JdV
JF
JPP
FS
Chilli, Aplon, Ndungane, Muller, CJ, Ruan and Juan will make it if we have serious injuries going forward otherwise their world cup is as good as over.
I think PdV did not back Aplon enough in the tournament. Aplon deserved to start a game at fullback in this world cup.
30 Sep 2011, 17:36 pm
F Steyn at 12 has been a revelation. Suddenly our wings are seeing some ball after dusting off the cobwebs on their hands (Habana has finally scored a brace of tries) and some people are suggesting Steyn be shipped to fullback?
Lambie has shown that he is MORE than reliable at the back (perhaps the most reliable we have?). He can tackle like a player twice his size, is perfectly reliable and brave under the high ball and often breaks the line. And some people are suggesting that he hit the wood?
JDV and JF were “owned” TWICE by the Crusaders midfield at HOME in CT this year, it takes a kiwi to point that out… what makes Saffas think the same midfield will suddenly ignite in the RWC?
And as for the captaincy issue – today reminded me AGAIN why Matfield should NOT be the Bok captain. You could see the panic in the players’ eyes after the Samoan try, too many players were doing the talking on field (Burger and FDP) and the game plan cried out for an adjustment in the 2nd half which never came. To be honest Bismark has FAR more of an impact as a sub than he has over 80 minutes.
So if the choice is Smit as captain (big tick) and Bismark as sub (big tick) or Matfield as captain (big no no) and Bismark over 80 (still a big tick), then its obvious who I’d start with…
A subs bench of Bismark, Alberts, Hougaard and Rossouw will be very difficult to stop.
For me the big problem is M Steyn at 10 and Spies at 8. The problem is that we have become too reliant on M Steyn’s kicking to win matches. His kicking for poles is excellent, but everything else is below par.
30 Sep 2011, 17:52 pm
@Black Panther
I think most sensible South Africans know that this South African side has had its problems over the last 3 years and many have accepted sub par performances under a poor coach selected for political reasons using a team that has not always been selected on form. I also think most believe that NZ has been the best side for a while now and the results speak for themselves.
There is no doubt that many of the Springbok fans tend to be a little over the top in their support and even confrontational too.
But with the way you are shouting your mouth off, along with a few other kiwi posters here, you are going to feel like a right fool if NZ run into a South African side in a semi who decides to turn it on. South Africa is the one side that can beat you in NZ and the kind of arrogance and bravado you are showing is a little premature.
I too think NZ are favourites and I expect them to win the world cup. But anything can happen on the day and the certainty and glee you find in all this is a little bit pathetic to be honest
30 Sep 2011, 18:05 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-93:
Astute commentary. Burger had to step in. Matfield had no passion and did not rally the troops. Schalk was endlessly provoked, but kept it together. Future Bok captain.
30 Sep 2011, 18:27 pm
@Jinx2(Jinx2)-95: I have to agree… no flexibility or vision from Matfield. Once the pressure came on, he retreated into Bulls-rugby mode. After two solid weeks of everyone singing Frans Steyn’s praises for transforming the Bok backline, in the second half it was 20 min before the ball went to him from first phase. It was kick kick kick from M Steyn, INTO THE WIND. It went on for so long I was beginning to think Matfield was punishing Frans for the “Senior BullsJake White was my dad” comment.
30 Sep 2011, 18:31 pm
As for Nigel Owens… if the Boks had pulled a third of what the Samoans got away with we’d have finished the game with 4 men on the field. Their No. 8 alone committed more offences than Bakkies has in his entire international career… and I don’t like Bakkies precisely because he’s a liability in that regard.
30 Sep 2011, 18:31 pm
@frunobulax(frunobulax)-96:
Absolutely. We had the power to boss them, Matfield just lost the hunger.
30 Sep 2011, 18:37 pm
@Jinx2(Jinx2)-95:
spot on bud…
during the one stoppage it was schalk who called the guys together and geed them up… big vic just stood there…
30 Sep 2011, 18:44 pm
@ufo(ufo)-99: It was a demonstration of why Div can’t drop Smit. In the Senior Bulls-dominated leadership John is the only player Victor will defer to, and he has to play diplomat for 60 min to the refs who believe all Boks are thugs. And as retirement looms those Bulls have become harder and harder to control.
30 Sep 2011, 18:45 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-64: This Samoa side would have beaten the ABs by 20 points or more. Be happy they were not in your pool.
30 Sep 2011, 20:05 pm
Naah — the ABs would shred Samoa by 40. Easily.
30 Sep 2011, 20:10 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-16: Aussie whipped the Boks home and away in the 3N. Clearly they’re the better side. SA squeaked past Wales and really didn’t deserve to beat tenth-ranked Samoa (ranked below Argentina and Scotland).
30 Sep 2011, 20:16 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-103: come now yarpie-revver – SA were lucky to beat Wales, we can agree on that, but to say that SA “really didn’t deserve to beat tenth-ranked Samoa”?
That’s an extreme exaggeration. Even for your usual yarpie revving self.
30 Sep 2011, 20:25 pm
@Kiefpant(Kiefpant)-94:
typical smallmindedness from the Carly Simon Brigade
show me WHERE I have been “shooting (my) mouth off” about NZs performance ?
“I too think NZ are favourites”
too ? actually, I made Australia my ‘favourites’ long before the Cup started. Exactly – shows how much i know, huh ?!
How rather hilarious that Chip Nation automatically regards any BALANCE re Samoa-specific comments as somehow equating to being ‘pro-NZ’.
The Boks have an incredible habit of making minnow rugby-nations look decidedly World Class, like Tonga in 2007. Now they have to put up or STFU because theres now way of avoiding Real Teams from here on in.
The Boks went SCORELESS for an entire 2ndH against Samoa. Noone I spoke to yesterday gave the Samoans a chance “within 20pts”. Pat yourselves on the back for proving us all wrong.
30 Sep 2011, 20:26 pm
KIWI TROLL ALERT!
30 Sep 2011, 20:28 pm
Gosh they sound salty about losing like they even had a chance to begin with even against wales they had some gripe.
Samoa let the the public’s perception (to be more specific New Zealand public) delude them about their abilities. They were fooled into thinking they could actually beat the boks and pull an upset if they “bullied” the boks – it nearly worked but like wales it wasn’t good enough.
some of the Samoan players reverted to dirty tactics and they think the ref was hard on them ? if anything nigel was very lenient. there were at least two red card offenses and even more yellow ones
that’s exactly why they lost. They decided to live up to their reputation rather than play rugby
30 Sep 2011, 20:58 pm
From the little I saw boks had a good first half but **** second. Too close for comfort & will have to do much better to progress. 150 odd tackles gotta hurt. Skop & charge sucks & won’t get us there imo
30 Sep 2011, 21:09 pm
mmmmmmmm, time for breakfast
Ive had enough goat to last me a lifetime, the furry bits give me hairballs.
~~~~burrrrrp~~~~~
30 Sep 2011, 21:16 pm
The Boks even had to resort to playacting to get Williams sent off. An open-hand to brussows face seemed to trigger a Ronaldo-esque fall to the ground in order to milk the RC. The first time we had to endure such theatrics was also from a Bok player, Joost v.d.Westhuizen in 1996 when he was handed off by J.Marshall and fell to the ground like he’d been shot. I suppose desperate times require desperate measures. Dont they have a word for that ?
30 Sep 2011, 21:57 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-110: As has been pointed out already on the udder thread, tell that to your own Adam Thompson:
http://www.youtube.com/user/kockslapper?blend=1&ob=5
A little scrumhalf made him “tumble” to the ground like a soccer player BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
CONTORTIONISTA!
30 Sep 2011, 22:00 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-111:
14 years after the Original
30 Sep 2011, 22:38 pm
New Zealand would have lost today. Only Keo and his utterly thick clan of gutter rats would expect the Boks to nail a quality side for 80 minutes. Rugby has it’s ebs and flow, we controlled that first half, but equally were impressive in keeping the Samoans, a highly quality side, to one try in that second half. Particulary as the Samoans had many penalties which they used as a platform to attack from. Very poor show by the ref in that second half. Numerous ruck infringements went unnoticed while the Boks were pinged, forward passes and knock ons that were never called, yet the Boks were constantly called on everything. It made it hard to compete and allowed Samoa to get into the game and really test us. yet we held firm. What more could you possibly want? New Zealand’s leaky defence would not have held up, but then again, they would have had all the calls go their way, plus their illegal tactics at the collisions and rucks would have been allowed. But in a straight up fair fight, they would not have beaten Samoa. Too little respect by our thick south african supporters who would rather attack the boks than give credit to the best Samoan side in history! Without Rassie and Nienaber? We would have been savaged!! Credit to them for completely reconstructing our game.
30 Sep 2011, 22:41 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-110: You are a worthless rat. Attacking a players face is a red card. Those are the rules you retarded gimp. Stick to what you know, whatever that may be, and keep your mouth shut about rugby. But then you support NZ, so you are accustomed to spear tackles, shoulder charges, and all kinds of illegal play being deemed acceptable. Gutter rats wouldn’t know any better I suppose.
30 Sep 2011, 23:37 pm
Samoan thugs got the better of the refs decisions. Just look at the game again and you will see how he overlooked several indiscretions (offside, not releasing, off the ball nigles, dangerous tackles, shoulder charges). Quite honestly Samoa were not nearly good enough today – and spent too much time trying to upset the Bokke and the game. Happy to see the back of these miserable whingers! I do not like the way that they play. Perhaps they can blame their loss on Apartheid! There is a bitterness about these Samoans that is unlikeable. Look at Fiji and you will see a major attitude difference.
1 Oct 2011, 00:10 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-110: NZ would know that very well wouldn’t they. I’m sure that I posted about it earlier.
Rugby’s most famous dive
In 1978 Wales were leading New Zealand’s 12-10 and looked like they were heading for what would be only their fourth ever victory over the mighty All Blacks. But New Zealand won a penalty for a push in the line-out, and subsequently kicked the winning points. Twenty years later the All Blacks’ lock forward Andy Haden admitted he had dived to win the penalty, although the referee insisted he had whistled for another offence.
1 Oct 2011, 02:42 am
Well atleast Bok fans are whingeing about the ref after a win this time, makes a refreshing change.
But OH the mirth about the opposition being “physical”….and “dirty”……. from BOK fans ?!?
………………….~~~~~~~~~~~~@@@@@@@@
1 Oct 2011, 10:30 am
@Esoteric(Esoteric)-116: Esoteric – that was 23 years ago. Don’t you think your argument is just a little lame.
As for the game and the refereeing, Owens did have a bit of a shocker, but you could not say that he was favouring the Samoans with all his decisions. There were plenty of poor decisions that saved the Boks from time to time as well. It just depends whether you were watching the game with one eye or both eyes. I was a neutral observer and saw Owens make bad decisions both ways, with some of the bad calls against Samoa coming at times where they were in strong try scoring positions. I think this is why the Samoans have been feeling hard done by. At the end of the day the right team won, and deserved to do so, but trying to argue that the Samoans benefited from Owens poor performance doesn’t stand up to a non-biased revue.
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