Pietersen still in doubt
5 Oct 2011
JP Pietersen did not train with the Springboks on Wednesday and will face a final fitness test on Thursday.
Springbok coach Peter de Villiers had been forced to postpone the first training session of this quarter-final week to Wednesday, and the bad news for the Boks is that Pietersen is still not up an running. The winger injured his quad in last Friday’s clash against Samoa, and is doubtful for Sunday’s play-off at the Wellington Regional Stadium.
The Boks will announce their 22 to tackle the Aussies on Thursday at 07:00 New Zealand time (Wednesday at 20:00 SA time), and Pietersen should be listed in the starting line-up. However, that team announcement will not mean much in terms of his progress, and he will only undergo the final fitness test later in the day.
‘I feel confident that I will be ready,’ Pietersen said on Wednesday. ‘I haven’t run yet and there is still a lot of pain, but we will have to see how it goes tomorrow.
‘If there is still a lot of discomfort, I may have to do what’s best for the team and drop out. You don’t want to be at only 80% of your ability in a game like this.’
If Pietersen is unavailable, Francois Hougaard should take his place on the right wing.
By Jon Cardinelli, in Wellington
74 Comments
5 Oct 2011, 03:40 am
speedy dragon doubtful…
5 Oct 2011, 03:44 am
Hougaard is better.
5 Oct 2011, 03:49 am
Yes Tackles but he is worth more as an impact player than a starter.
5 Oct 2011, 03:51 am
I thought Hougaard was out for a mandatory 2 weeks for concussion?
5 Oct 2011, 03:56 am
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-4:
There is no such thing as a mandatory 2 weeks for concussion anymore, went out of fashion a very, very long time ago.
5 Oct 2011, 05:13 am
Getting knocked out doesn’t mean you have concussion. Also, any news on Habana’s bruised leg? Hougaard, Habana, Lambie back three sounds good.
5 Oct 2011, 06:17 am
JPP tackles better than Houghard.
Houghard should be on the bench as replacment for #9 in case things start going pear shaped.
5 Oct 2011, 07:23 am
We need this guy.
5 Oct 2011, 07:26 am
But whatever we do…. Snorre – please don’t play injured players….
5 Oct 2011, 08:01 am
Great news!!! I wish it was Banana, but this will do fine!! HOugaaaaaaaaaaaaaard!!!! Mnr Rugby!!!
5 Oct 2011, 08:02 am
If the Boks fail to make the semi’s, surely the Boks will play Currie Cup! Then surely it will be the Bulsl who will win it! Good bye pressie for bakkies, Matfield, Fourie, Rossouw!
5 Oct 2011, 08:08 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-6:
actually it does…
you’ve been knocked out because of concussion to your brain… you can’t get knocked out without being concussed…
sure… there may be no lasting effects but you have been concussed…
as good as hougie is and as much as we need him… i believe he should be rested… these things are serious and catch up with people later in life… just ask muhammad ali…
and i believe the automatic rest thingy IS still part of rib protocol….
5 Oct 2011, 08:09 am
JP impressed so far pity if he is out. Hougaard would be a good replacement but I would prefer him on the other side in Habs place at this stage.
5 Oct 2011, 08:15 am
i thought jp was woeful against the welsh but to be fair has been good since then…
personally i’d go with aplon as he tackles better than hougie and is also a helluva counter-attacker too… if hougie is fit to play i’d use him from the bench…
5 Oct 2011, 08:20 am
Agree UFO
5 Oct 2011, 08:20 am
Agree UFO!
5 Oct 2011, 08:21 am
Agree UFO , plus he would be the backup Scrummie , if he plays they might bring Ruan in on the bench and thats a disaster !!
5 Oct 2011, 08:21 am
@UFO – agree!
5 Oct 2011, 08:45 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-2: I’m sick and tired of this “he’s better as an impact player” thing. C’mon – the guy is in great form. Why isn’t everybody calling Bissy a great impact player then? Both of them are in the same situation…
5 Oct 2011, 08:56 am
@scar(scar)-15:
@scar(scar)-16:
@scar(scar)-18:
cool… hehehe
@sparticus(sparticus)-17:
yeah… i reckon in hougie, aplon, lambie and steyn we have the core of a great backline for the next few years…
5 Oct 2011, 09:00 am
@ufo – completely agree about Aplon and think his treatment has been very unfair. Despite his size he is an *excellent* defender and his pace will be needed in cover defence against Australia. He is not only fast, but has great acceleration and on the wing should be encouraged to look for intercepts on Cooper’s big looping cut-out passes.
We need to base our strategy on retaining possession. We will lose if we try to play an aerial game against Australia. Aplon has a genuinely good kicking game and of late has been using it a lot – trying to fit with the bok template – but he is best when playing his natural counter-attacking game. He is astonishingly good at make the yards across the ground that a kick would, with the advantage that the chances of retaining possession are stronger.
Ball in hand, boks!
5 Oct 2011, 09:03 am
@ufo(ufo)-12:
No. I was an amateur boxer with a very successful record in my youth.
Besides du Plessis and Frans, Hougaard has been the form Bok player. As fearless and good a defender Aplon is, Hougaard is better.
5 Oct 2011, 09:13 am
@dangerbok(dangerbok)-21:
agree with you hundreds bud…
i’m a big aplon fan since he first started playing for wp… many said he wouldn’t cut it at international level as the increased pace would mean space would close down too quickly… or that he would get killed in the tackle… or that he wouldn’t be able to tackle…
but the guy is tough as the rocks on hawston beach and i think he surprises a lot of guys who go in to tackle him… we all know what it feels like (although maybe not at international level) having lined up a smaller guy for a tackle thinking ‘this is gonna be good’… but when they hit aplon i think that are genuinely surprised at his solidness and toughness… and certainly when he hits them in a good tackle he does it very well…
and as you say… i think no one has the acceleration he does in counter attacks…
and his left boot is awesome for touch…
in future i’d have lambie at 10… (have heard him say he prefers it…) and i think his general kicking is better than bio but not his distance… i think he may be better a suited to the tighter spaces at flyhalf…
i’d have bio at 15 because he can better exploit the more open spaces and is more likely to counter ball-in-hand than lambie… and his left boot will get us out of trouble more often than not…
i rate both guys very highly…
but then there’s hougie… who IMO is gonna be a MASSIVE rugby star in future…. if he keeps up this pace and intensity and enthusiasm he will win international player of the year at some point.. he should be in the running for this year’s new comer/junior award already…
Hougie is a special player… IMO of course…
5 Oct 2011, 09:22 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-22:
good to hear KK… but medically a knock out is a concussion… of course the boxing world doesn’t see it that way… but just look at how many pro’s slur in later life… and BTW… Muhammed Ali had a pretty good record too…!!
as in my previous post… i think hougie is a very special player… but you can’t blame aplon for not starring simply because he hasn’t had the chances…
personally i would’ve had him at 15 and lambie on the bench… but Div went with lambie… which didn’t worry me too much at all as he’s also a very good player… but that’s just me…
and before i get flamed… read my previous post… i rate all three highly… but hougie the highest…
now… i’d go with aplon because i think he defends better than hougie… and it’s gonna be tough keeping the wallas in check…
5 Oct 2011, 09:23 am
This will be a big blow. JPP put in a huge defence effort against the hard running Samoans. Hougaard will be a more than able replacement though.
5 Oct 2011, 09:30 am
Yeah agree losing Pietersen as well as Frans Steyn are 2 big losses. Pietersen stopped that second Samoan try. he was huge in defence last week.
If theyre going to start wings then they should start Houghaard and Aplon if Pietersen and Habana are out. Just not Odwa please. he is solid but he´s not going to win it for us. Aplon could easily pull off a breakout try.
On the bench then I´d put Juan de Jongh and perhaps Butch in this case seeing as our stocks are low and I wouldnt want Kirchner, Odwa or Ruaan on the bench. They offer nothing extra.
5 Oct 2011, 09:30 am
Our wings are gaining form at the right time. That try of Habana against Samoa was well finished and reminded me of Habana of old.
5 Oct 2011, 09:36 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-27: but did you see that he fumbled the ball in that move too? he was just lucky he held on to it!
5 Oct 2011, 09:43 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-26: Snap!
5 Oct 2011, 09:43 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-28: yeah and if he´d have hung onto the first one it would have been 2 tries. Fumble fumble fumble.
5 Oct 2011, 09:44 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-28: lol that was pure skill dude!
5 Oct 2011, 09:47 am
If we lose JPP it is a huge loss. He was in great form. His defence will be missed.
Hougaard then should start. Habs still has the haematoma so will he be ready to start? If Habs and JPP can’t start we in a bit of trouble. We cover one position well with Hougie there though. Just don’t think Aplon or Odwa is as good as JPP. JPP has saved our butts many times with great try saving tackles.
Still think it was a shame that Mvovo never went to this world cup. He should have been the replacement for Steyn. We have cover at fb in Aplon and Odwa. Was not necessary to bring in Zane. We needed another wing.
5 Oct 2011, 09:49 am
@Puma(Puma)-32: i´ll second that – Lwazi would have been a much better option or as I said Riaan Viljoen – can play him at fullback or wing and has an equally big boot like Steyn.
5 Oct 2011, 09:50 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-30: lol
5 Oct 2011, 09:50 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-26: Agree,
Losing Frans and JPP in one week is a massive loss.
Doubt JPP will start. That knee injury don’t sound good. Doubt he will be ready by tomorrow. Who will start at 14 then? They ran through Aplon quite easy in the Durbs test. A bit of a worry there really.
5 Oct 2011, 09:51 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-31: pure skil my bum…habana is just a big head and an equally sized ego! he is nowhere near as deadly as the likes of vincent clerq, digby ioane, zack guilford.
5 Oct 2011, 09:52 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-30: i know…he is even worse than chris ashton…and that says a lot!
5 Oct 2011, 09:55 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-33: Absolutely. Viljoen was my first choice if we had to bring in a fb. He also has a massive boot and is a utility back. Taute too in awesome form. But would have gone with Viljoen cause of his big boot and able to cover wing and fb. Or if it was just a wing then Mvovo.
Don’t think they thought it through bringing Zane. Might be that he knows the Bulls style of play well. Think that is the way we will play from here. Though not even sure he will be used. So it is a waste having brought him. They brought a fb so it should have been Viljoen. Spot on mate.
5 Oct 2011, 10:02 am
@Puma(Puma)-38: If you look at the peaking order for Fullbacks Zane was next in line. Zane has also been with the team for a while so he knows the systems, whereas someone like Viljoen would be new to many things in the Bok line-up. Based on form Viljoen should be there though.
5 Oct 2011, 10:09 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-39: I know they selected Zane cause he plays with the Bulls players so knows the drill. But really Zane? He is just not in this class at all. So if it was me I would have taken a chance with a better player.
For now not even sure Zane will get to start. Then I won’t be shocked to see him selected. It could happen. Just hope not.
5 Oct 2011, 10:55 am
If JPP doesn’t make then JDV should go to the wing and Butch in at 12:-
10. Morne
11. Habs
12. Butch
13. J Fourie
14. JDV
15. Lambie
Bench:-
Hougie
Ruan (Big match BMT)
5 Oct 2011, 11:10 am
I’d play Zane & JDJ & banana so that we can lose!!! let the Boks play Currie Cup and SHARKS DIE CURRIE CUP KOM WEER!!!!!
5 Oct 2011, 11:48 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-41: Terrible, will lose with that backline.
5 Oct 2011, 11:55 am
Reading on rugby365 see H. Brussow is with the rehab players. Now that is a damn worry. What is wrong with Brussow? Never read anything about a injury to him anywhere else.
So Brussow, JPP, Habs and Hougaard all in the rehab section.
Heck that Samona game came at a cost. Should have rested our key players and played the others. We would still have beaten them.
Worried now that we might lose JPP as we have already lost Frans. If we lose Brussow we might not make it. With Pocock ready to start this week.
5 Oct 2011, 11:55 am
@Puma(Puma)-44: meant – Samoan game.
5 Oct 2011, 11:59 am
@race of tan(race of tan)-41: If JPP is out injured. Then if Hougaard is ready to start and Habs is too. Then Hougaard will have to start at 14. WE need a razor sharp player with good defence to face Digby. I would rather have JPP but a injury free JPP. BUT Hougie can do it.
5 Oct 2011, 12:12 pm
Puma – I have no idea why PDV didnt bring on FLO during that game and for either Brussouw or Spies!! He hasnt played at all this RWC and if Brussouw doesn’t make will have to be in the starting team!!
But yes Samoa was a very costly game, infact this Pool was pretty tuff!!
5 Oct 2011, 12:25 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-47: Actually it was foolish to have played our key players against Samoa. We would have beaten them with: Flo, JdV and even Odwa on the wing. Odwa defence is good. Should have rested Brussow, Fransie and JPP and probably Burger. Those players were targeted the whole game long by the Samoans. Just to injure them. Disgraceful really. All took plenty smacks to the back of the head too. Disgraceful from the Samoans.
Peter should have pulled them off early seeing that was happening.
We may have kissed this wc good bye for playing our best against Samoa.
If Brussow is injured we in huge trouble with Pocock there. We can’t afford to lose JPP either really. He is a key player too.
5 Oct 2011, 13:58 pm
I think that if the Boks lose, I am more excited to see our old friend Gant10 back.
Its just not the same without him.
Concerned about our team going through at the moment, and it has nothing to do with individual players, but rather it has everything to do with the combinations about to start, and the fitness of our supposed Bok stalwarts. I shall explain:
Front row has not let us down this RWC at all.
Locks are undercooked in terms of fitness
Loosies are limping around a bit if I am hearing the injury concerns correctly?
9/10/12 axis is a worry. Steyn is a defensive flyhalf (i mean he kicks a lot), but is poor defensively. If you are going to play him, you need a strog 12 ou his outside which DV is not. JDV is an attacking 12, who needs a 10 who asks questions of the defines, and not one who waits in the pocket to kick, and only passes when in trouble,
Back 3 – I would like Pietersons experience with Lambie there, and loke Hougard as a sub. We need him fresh in case FDP is injured\
WEre not in great shape for this game
5 Oct 2011, 15:23 pm
@BULLET(BULLET)-49: Some good points but “JDV is an attacking 12″, since when?
When did JdV meaningfully attack the advantage line, do and offload in the tackle, or even do a simple miss pass to put Mossie or his Fullback into space, whether for the Boks or even the Stormers.
He might have, but I can’t recall it.
It is a travesty that JdV is our best option at the moment due to relegating a player such as JdJ to the bench for the Stormers and the Boks the last year. Whats more, this after his excellent 2010 season for the Stormers and debut test against Wales playing against probably the pre-eminent 12 in world rugby, Jamie Roberts who just the year before probably destroyed the Bok backline on his own.
Frans Steyn was such a revelation for Boks at the RWC this year because the benchmark has been set so low. And to think fools even believe the bullshit that Mossie and JdV are 2 of the best centre combos on the planet.
But the Boks have to make do with what they’ve got, and what they’ve got now is De Villiers who is more of a shadow of the player he was than any other perceived has been in the Green and Gold.
Hopefully JdV can pull a great performance out of the bag, he needs to because Oz are going to work that 10/12 channel, and I for one certainly won’t be using Morne Steyn as a scapegoat for the obvious defensive deficiencies of JdV.
All the while JdJ will be sitting in the stands, because he probably wont be sitting on the bench.
5 Oct 2011, 15:27 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-50: Added to this, “two step” De Villiers will probably be hitting the floor with aplomb at the first sign of any contact – a nice big bullseye for Pocock…
I reckon the Aussies will target JdV as a weakness. He is going to have to play the game of his life and prove doubters like myself totally wrong if we are to stop the Wobbly attack with any success.
5 Oct 2011, 15:36 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-50: jdv is NOT our best option, south africans are just lulled by the rubbish of “settled combination”!
“settled” to do what, break the line, cut defences to shreds?
what are they settled in?
jdv + mossie vs barnes + ashley-cooper
the last time jdv was an “attacking threat” he was playing with adi in 2008!
5 Oct 2011, 15:49 pm
@BULLET(BULLET)-49: Feel the same. People just don’t understand how huge the loss of Frans Steyn is. JdV is just not in the same class. Without Frans there we going to struggle. 9/10/12 will be a worry. As soon as I read Frans was out my confidence just dipped for our Boks to win this one.
We can’t and really should not start with JdV at 12 nor JdJ. For this game I would start Butch at 12. None are in the class of Frans but think Butch is our best bet.
Only read on rugby375 that Brussow was with the injured in rehab. So have not a clue if he is injured or just nursing some bumps and bruises.
Also think we should start with Danie and not Bakkies. As Mitchell pointed out last night after the appalling reffing from Owens in the Samoa game refs will be told to be stricter. Can’t have a red card coming our way. Bakkies is and always will be a marked man by the refs. Go with Danie he is top form. After all the rain there this week we should start with Alberts at 8 as well.
Now with our wings not sure if they gonna start them with injuries or what. If we lose JPP that will be a massive loss. Can’t play a player that is carrying a injury he won’t give his best. If both Habs and JPP are over their injuries which will seem like a miracle. Then we will have Digby covered. JPP’s defence is top class.
For once am not worried too about our front row or our scrums. We will be fine there. If Victor and hit top form our lineouts will do well too.
Discipline and defence will be absolute key.
Anyhow if JdV does start at 12 and proves me wrong I will only be too happy that he did.
Good luck to our Boks. They will need it. We still can and hoping like crazy we can.
5 Oct 2011, 15:50 pm
@Puma(Puma)-53: meant – rugby365
5 Oct 2011, 15:51 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-52: DONT SHOUT at me while saying the same thing and agreeing with me essentially!!!
5 Oct 2011, 16:01 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-51: That is the problem with JdV. He never passes and just bashes into the apposition and goes to ground. Pocock will be there waiting. That is if we don’t get there in numbers ourselves.
Frans was off loading in the tackle. Something JdV won’t or can’t do. Another thing to tackle Fransie, it took a few players to do that so taking them out of position. Making gaps for us.
Think our best bet with the players there is to start with Butch.
5 Oct 2011, 16:04 pm
@Puma(Puma)-53: You may have a point with Butch at 12… Butch brings a boot and but can be indisciplined in D at 12. Butch can distribute but can be a fancy Dan with his passes.
Not sure whether Butch will be better than JdV at 12. I reckon him and Morne Steyn are even more on a different page than JdV and Steyn.
I believe that if JdJ had more opportunities at 12 then he would undoubtedly be our best option after Frans Steyn. He is too much of an unknown because he hasn’t been tested enough at the highest level. An indictment on the bad planning pointed out in the articles on Keo.
Although these Keo fools are right about bad planning they look in the wrong places. Morne Steyn is our best option at FH – he is the best points machine on the planet at the moment and he is comfortable with FdP at 9. Morne Steyn is more valuable to the Boks than Butch is at 10.
It is obvious that these guys keep promoting Butch because we are all stared at by the man every day we log on. I wouldnt be surprised if Butch is represented by this HSM publishing setup in the same way Puke is. It does not look good and is a clear conflict of interest.
I like Butch, but he is no better option than Morne.
5 Oct 2011, 16:07 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-57: And am not sure whether he is a better option than JdV. I would tend to go with JdV more as “better the devil you know” more than anything else.
The only time to my mind that Butch has played 12 recently has been a few times with the Lions… But playing for the Lions, not known for D, is a far cry from facing Aus in a WC QF
5 Oct 2011, 16:11 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-55: am not shouting… mhlathi wakho!
5 Oct 2011, 16:12 pm
@Puma(Puma)-56: frans played against fiji and namibia, really now STOP the hype…
5 Oct 2011, 16:14 pm
Jaysus … just reading the above has me worried, how the hell Frans and Brussow were not benched for the Samoa game is beyond me but its always easier with hindsight. Should have put fat sh*t Smit on as well….
Please can we have a decent coach next year for Boks ???
5 Oct 2011, 16:15 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-60: And Samoa?
And 2007 WC…?
And Racing Metro…?
No hype, but it doesnt matter now, Frans is gone.
5 Oct 2011, 16:22 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-60: Transie what about Wales?
For that matter wdc 2007
BIL 2009
Tri-Nations Chams 2009
Transie don’t get me started on this man, you talking rubbish if you think Frans Steyn was not up to it. Only in your dreams. He was brilliant. If you could not see that you have not a clue.
5 Oct 2011, 16:23 pm
@Puma(Puma)-63: sorry typos. Can’t really do this blogging while on the phone and working..lol.
Chams = Champs
wdc = wc
5 Oct 2011, 16:27 pm
@bananas(bananas)-61: He should have pulled both of them off straight away when he saw they were targeted. PdV said the Samoans had targeted: Fransie/Burger and Brussow the whole game long. Why then did he not pull them off? Should of in the first half already.
Or better not start with our key players. Samoans were only there to injure us nothing more. Thugs.
5 Oct 2011, 16:33 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-60: That try Fransie got against Wales. He just smashed right over them. Yeah right hype hey? You really don’t have a clue how big a loss Frans is.
Who would you have played there then? Jeez you talk rubbish.
5 Oct 2011, 16:37 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-57: No would start Butch at 12 not 10. Think he is our best bet at 12 now that Frans is gone.
JdJ and JdV never pass. Though JdJ can find a gap. We need a BIG strong 12 that can cover for Morne. So JdJ is out the picture I think.
PdV will go with JdV. Just hope he has a better game this Sunday. No more chances after this.
They will target our 10/12 channel all game long now that Frans is gone.
5 Oct 2011, 16:55 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-57:
Not really backed by the last 2 years’ statistics:
Morne Styen played 5 times against the wallabies, lost 4
The single win was by 2 points at HOME!
If Bryce Lawrence will award the Boks 12 penalties within 40m distance then Styen is the winner.
If playing rugby would be the only option to win then just forget about poor Morne
5 Oct 2011, 17:32 pm
@Puma(Puma)-53:
Couldn’t agree with you more Puma – the whole Bok infrastructure is predictable – powerful platform, but predictable – Frans danced on that stage and nobody knew what he would do next: he is the X-factor that takes the entire collective of the team to the next level …
But included in that – probably most importantly for this sort of rugby, i.e. World Cup knockout – place kicking and drop goals are critical, if not the way of winning the major games – which are all predicated on defence. With Morne so accurate – with the so-called “bad rugby ball” they are using – and Frans lethal – we had an advantage over all the other teams and it was the basis of our game plan.
Heck – so important is that role – I would actually, crazy as it sounds, have him on the bench with his bad shoulder, to bring on if it was a 2-point game and 5 minutes to go. He doesn’t kick with his shoulder …
That’s how good that guy is and how big the loss. |’ve always said that … play him at centre, fullback or wing – he will deliver (but oddly, not fly-half; keep him away from that – though, given his form, maybe risk another try at that).
The guy is that good – he’s got everything: boot, boot and more boot of every type, can tackle – can run – has uncanny anticpation and postional play – sheer rugby once-in-a-lifetime genius …. and glamour, throw that in as well. .
5 Oct 2011, 19:21 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-62: @Puma(Puma)-63: who did he”shine” against in 2007? fiji, tonga, a kak england, argentina….WOW fransie is a world beater, not!
5 Oct 2011, 19:29 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-70: Transie you have no credibility in any argument against Fransie with your inherent anti Shark bias. Now STFU and behave yourself.
5 Oct 2011, 19:44 pm
@J.B. Cowper(J.B. Cowper)-69: Top class post. Well said. Agree 100%.
5 Oct 2011, 19:51 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-70: Transie,
Fransie was also part of the team that beat ABs in New Zealand in 2009. He got the last long range kick in that sealed it. Did you not remember or have you conveniently forgotten?
In this world cup if you could not see how superb he played at inside centre then you are on your own. Cause you won’t find any blogger on any rugby site in the whole of the www that will agree with you. You have no clue what we lost with Frans playing 12. Just can’t or rather won’t discuss this with you any further. You making a complete fool of yourself if you dissing Fransie and you can’t see what Fransie brought to the team at inside centre. That is his best position and he should never have lost it to JdV after wc 2007.
Our whole backline will suffer if Butch or JdV don’t step up. With Frans there I can tell you Oz would be worried so would Nz. So they should be. Most teams would. The reason those Samoans thugs targeted him.
5 Oct 2011, 20:02 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-71: oh really?
and you’re the arbiterof objectivity on things Guppy? bwahahahaha
the same man who told everyone meyer bosman is he new “lem” pffft
hamba uyodontsa ucingo lukaPuma tl tl tl
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