PdV’s misplaced loyalty could cost Boks
7 Oct 2011
JON CARDINELLI writes that Peter de Villiers has failed the Springboks by favouring John Smit over Bismarck du Plessis.
‘Don’t be surprised if Bismarck starts the big games,’ a source close to the team told me last week. By that point, Smit had started the Boks’ first three World Cup matches, but there was still a strong belief that Du Plessis would wear the No 2 jersey in the play-offs.
Before Thursday, Du Plessis had pledged his support to his mentor and captain, although privately he may have expected to start the big games. When the team to play against Namibia was named, Du Plessis told an Irish journalist that he’d accepted his role as Smit’s understudy, but following the announcement of the Boks’ quarter-final line-up, he cut a dejected figure at the team hotel.
When he was interviewed, there was none of the good humour that had characterised his media offerings earlier in the tournament. There was also a rumour that he’d reacted badly to the news that he would be riding the bench, and that the head coach was unimpressed with this reaction.
De Villiers calls it a bad attitude, I call it a bad decision. Not for the first time in the last four years, the Bok coach has favoured Smit over Du Plessis even though it’s become increasingly evident that Smit can no longer meet the standards of an international hooker, let alone match the trend-setting Du Plessis.
Smit is also no longer the indispensable leader he was during De Villiers’s early years. On the 2010 tour to the Home Nations, Victor Matfield proved himself to be a capable leader in Smit’s absence. When he was handed the responsibility at this World Cup, Matfield admitted that the captaincy wasn’t as demanding when you had leaders like Bryan Habana (73 caps), Jean de Villiers (71), Jaque Fourie (68), Schalk Burger (67), Danie Rossouw (62) and Fourie du Preez (61) in the side.
There can be a case made for Habana’s exclusion, but the rest of these players deserve their places regardless of their age. The same cannot be said of Smit, and you have to wonder if the reasons around his selection are truly rugby related.
There will never be another John Smit. He’s already the most decorated Bok captain of all time, and his achievements are all the more remarkable given what he’s had to endure from an off-the-field perspective.
It was during the turbulent times of 2008 and 2009, when De Villiers was at his controversy-inciting worst, that Smit needed all of his experience and diplomacy, and behind the scenes, Smit worked to ensure the right calls were made in terms of selection and tactics. While he had already achieved so much prior to 2008, his value and contributions during the first two seasons of De Villiers’ tenure should never be underestimated.
When I interviewed Smit in April 2010, he told me that he would continue to put the team first. He said that the time may come where he would need to step aside, either to warm the bench or support the team as a non-playing squad member. He said this with conviction, and his past deeds both on and off the field gave me no reason to doubt that he would make good on his promise.
I couldn’t help but think about that conversation when Smit was announced as the starting hooker for this Sunday’s quarter-final against the Wallabies. The senior players have a big say in selection and strategy, and so I felt Smit’s selection didn’t align with his commitment to put the team first. By marching on as the starting No 2, he is doing the Boks no favours. By standing in the way of Du Plessis, he is, ironically, doing his country a disservice.
De Villiers will also need to accept responsibility for this situation. He may feel that he owes Smit something but the reality is that a Bok coach should always place the needs of the team above the needs of individuals.
Du Plessis is right to feel aggrieved. The best player won’t start in the No 2 jersey this Sunday, and this decision could cost the Boks’ in the decisive battle up front. It could cost the team everything they’ve worked for over the past four years and lead to an embarrassing quarter-final exit on par with that of Rudolph Straeuli’s side of 2003.
Through the weak management of De Villiers and Smit’s refusal to face the fact that he’s a spent force, the rugby world has been denied the privilege of seeing Du Plessis in his prime on the greatest stage of all. From a South African perspective, the decision to favour Smit has robbed the Boks of the stronger, more dynamic starting option, and it’s likely to be a decision the entire nation will come to lament.
717 Comments
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7 Oct 2011, 17:31 pm
@cab(cab)-287: Its not as simple as that. In 2009 Bakkies and Matfield where still the premier lock combination in the world. By 2010 they no longer were and we no longer had tight five domination we of all teams need for our gameplan to work. This cannot be blamed on Smit. I do agree that Bismarck should probably start but Smit will not single handedly lose the game for the boks any more than Bismarck would single handedly win the game. Smit is a good captain, good scrumager (at hooker) and competent in the tight phases and not nearly as useless as his detractors try to make out. There is also a very good argument to be made about bringing on a fresh Bismarck with 30 minutes to go to get the maximum impact out of him.
7 Oct 2011, 17:38 pm
these people that STILL believe that John Smit is the best choice to start any rugby test over Bismark, and ESPECIALLY against Australia are dumber than dumb fck ignoramus’s
What they simply cannot and will not see is that EVERY time John Smit starts we LOSE.. and conversely EVERY time Bismark starts we win…
So how much MORE f’ng brain dead deluded do these Smitty f’ng arsecreep disciples STILL wanna be?
EVERYTHING is pointing to an Aussie win now on Sunday.. the mere fact that John Smit is starting now DECIDEDLY points to at least a 70% chance we are going to lose..
HAD Bismark started the converse would be true.. 70% likelihood and probability that we would have WON..
So seems all these fervent dyed in the Smitty wool over the eyes sheep we have here actually ENJOY losing… I DON’T… HENCE I prefer Bismark to start ahead of John Smit because then the stronger likelihood is we would WIN and when John Smit starts the STRONGER likelihood is we are gonna LOSE…\
They are DUMB.. it don’t take a train to cry and a rocket scientist to laugh to see which is the DECIDEDLY better option.. or by the looks of the confusion reigning here perhaps it does ….
7 Oct 2011, 17:41 pm
Only change I would’ve made to the 22 would have been Beast instead of James.
7 Oct 2011, 17:41 pm
@malcolm(malcolm)-301:
again, with respect malcolm you dont get it either, i dont care if smit starts, play him on the wing for all the difference it makes to our results – all i’m saying is there is a very direct correlation between bismarck starting and the Boks ability to win tests aginst the bigboys.
Now i dont know why that is, perhaps bismark is just a lucky charm and we should use him as a mascot rather than as a rugby player, but its daarem a bladdy strange phenomenon this.
7 Oct 2011, 17:43 pm
I have 25-6 in my head. Please dont let it be against the Boks!
7 Oct 2011, 17:43 pm
@malcolm(malcolm)-301: Its AS SIMPLE AS THAT believe me
The equation goes as simply as this
START SMIT = LOSS
START BISMARK = WIN
that is how simple it ACTUALLY IS
How much you wanna bet?
Seems MOST of the rugby watching palookas on this site have not watched ANY rugby since 2009
Since 2009 John Smit has led his team to 10 losses from 11 starts against top flight competition.. and the one that we won he did not finish.. same as the last two meaningful tests we won in this WC vs Wales and Samoa..
Had John Smit started and finished both tests we were gonners.. no doubts about it whatsoever,
John Smit = LOSER
That is exactly HOW SIMPLE IT IS ..
and the converse of that is Bismark = WINNER..
How much more blatant obvious and how many more red herrings you wanna keep on selling to yourself.. that is how it IS
7 Oct 2011, 17:45 pm
Thumb-sucking opinion.
Without Bismarck starting – Oz have 60% chance of win.
With Bismarck starting – SA have 51% chance of win.
With Bismarck and Alberts starting – SA have 60% chance of win.
7 Oct 2011, 17:46 pm
This mountain is to high to climb for the Boks I fear. Aus, then NZ, then one of the others. I hope I’m wrong.
NZ should take it. They will be fresh going into the semi against whatever is left over from the Bok v Wallabie war. Then They’ll beat the NH side.
7 Oct 2011, 17:50 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-306: I tell you who is a loser and thats Donkey, but he’s the best option by the skin of his teeth over JdJ.
Nope, Barney to start and Bissy to finish. Mo.hammed Dippy thinks its the best option and who we to argue.
Dippy is the best Bok coach ever.
7 Oct 2011, 17:53 pm
@TheAgent(TheAgent)-308:
You chucking in the towel
Boks would have taken this thing with ONE simple adjustment
SMIT DONT START ahead of Bismark.. and if he’s a feeble f’ng impact player then he should be OUT the 22 altogether..
That would have been the single simple denominator for the Boks to win the WC.. Now I MAT STILL BE WRONG BUT I THINK already feel it in my bones.. we going out Sunday .. be as superstitious as you like about praying to whoever.. but Boks have cooked their goose by starting Smit and relegating Bismark to bench and Beast out the 22..
Boks have practically handed the game to Australia ON a F’ng PLATE
HIGH F’NG TREASON.. if ever there was such a crime THIS IS IT !!!!!
I said it from the beginning and I’m saying it again.. John Smit is gonna sink the Boks chances SOLO… WATCH !!!
7 Oct 2011, 17:53 pm
START SMIT = WE WIN
FINISH BISSY = WE WIN
WIN, WIN.
SIMPLE
7 Oct 2011, 17:57 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-311: I agree and also we have the Ozzie president said she does not believe in God so God will then support the Bokke.Keo also said that the Ozzies will win what a kiss of death. We are definately going to win it is a done deal.
7 Oct 2011, 17:57 pm
We have the best Bok coach, if not in history…
We have the best Bok captain…
You fools that can’t see this or accept this don’t know a rugby ball from a kicking tee, a tight head from a loose head, a scrummy from a wing, and a ruck from a maul.
King Pieter knows best.
7 Oct 2011, 17:58 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-310: My biggest concern is whether Guthro can play for 80 minutes. I would’ve started with Beast, and played Guthro of the bench.
Imagine the following:
After 50 minutes;
Bismark on for Smit
Guthro on for Beast
Alberts on for Spies
Hougaard on for Habana/JP (whoever needs to be relaced)
After 65 minutes;
CJ on for Jannie
Louw on for Brussouw
Aplon on for Habana/JP
7 Oct 2011, 17:58 pm
lmao, it is high fkg treason – goddamnit i cant even think about it.
7 Oct 2011, 17:59 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-312: Onward Christian Soldiers and all that… Marching unto war…
Boks are going to win… its inevitable under the great Dippy…
7 Oct 2011, 18:01 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-311:
Nope Smit is riding on Bismarks aggression and his coat tails.. Smit cannot do F’ckall on a rugby field in comparison except jabber away with his f’ng mouth to the ref..it is like absolute day and night comparing Bismark to Smit
Its a very simple equation
Smit gotta give way to the better player and that way he frees Boks chances to WIN.. By Smit hanging on for dear life to his superfluous and inconsequential prestige and ambition and his fckd up aura of invincibility John Smit has basically single handed sold the Boks down the river and out the WC.. That is how f’ng excruciating simple it actually is…
7 Oct 2011, 18:01 pm
@TheAgent(TheAgent)-314:
Lambie
JP (replaced by Aplon after 65)
Fourie
de Villiers
Habana (replaced by Hougaard after 50)
Steyn
du Preez
Spies (replaced by Alberts after 50)
Burger
Brussouw (replaced by Louw after 65)
Matfield
Rossouw
Jannie (replaced by CJ after 65)
Smit (replaced by Bismark after 50)
Beast (replaced by Guthro after 50)
That was my thinking.
7 Oct 2011, 18:02 pm
These false Patriots here whining over Barney and undermining the great apostle Pieter dont know their poephols from their backsides…
Farken traitorous, blasphemous bunch.
7 Oct 2011, 18:03 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-306: No it is not that simple and your obvious dislike of Smit is blinding you to the many facets that seperate a winning team from a losing team. No one player will ever make a team successful over a season or a failure. There are many reasons why the boks have not been successful over the past 2 years and actually the series win against the British Lions in 2009 hinted at what was to come. In this series we battled against their forwards (despite everyone saying before the tests that even our provincial franchises would whip the Lions) and we ended up being fortunate to win the series. The problem is our game plan is past its sell by date and in many of the areas we used to dominate we no longer do. When we do not dominate in the tight five we lose more than we win. That is why we are battling and this is not Smits fault. The boks still stand a chance because of the courage they play with and our great scrambling defence.
7 Oct 2011, 18:03 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-317: I think apostle Pieter, Coach of coaches knows best… If he thinks Barney is best to start and Bissy is best to finish then thats excellent by me.
7 Oct 2011, 18:04 pm
i think flo will replace Spies after 50 and Alberts will come on for Victor after 60
7 Oct 2011, 18:04 pm
James should not have been in the 22. Beast was a far more valuable player for this game. Unless if the coaching staff lack confidence in our game plan.
7 Oct 2011, 18:05 pm
Its all about winning…
Pieter is a winner.
Barney is a winner.
Bissy is a winner.
Win, win, win.
7 Oct 2011, 18:06 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-322: I said what I thought before the team was announced (Beast not there, Guthro starts).
We’ll see. Depends how the game goes.
7 Oct 2011, 18:07 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-322: Interesting. You may have cracked the code.
7 Oct 2011, 18:07 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-324: I don’t want to be in your shoes if we lose. I’ll chew my wrists.
7 Oct 2011, 18:08 pm
We need to donnor the Aussies, and that’s why we need guys like Guthro, Bismark, Alberts, Hougaard on (fresh) in the last 20.
7 Oct 2011, 18:10 pm
@TheAgent(TheAgent)-327: Why, because I support my Boks wholeheartedly…?
Because I am not a lukewarm supporter (with the emphasis on luke)?
No fark that. None of this traitorous shenanigans for me where chaps are trying selfishly to line themselves up a nice, big “I told you so”…. Cowards the lot of them.
7 Oct 2011, 18:11 pm
@malcolm(malcolm)-320:
I’ve watched Smit LOSE ENOUGH.. I am SICK to the teeth of watching Smit LOSE every ******* game he starts.. how many MORE you wanna watch…
Sunday is the LAST ONE.. Thank f’ng God…!!!!
Keep f’ng dreaming… Smit is a LOSER.. Bismark is a winner .. its been played out so many times in clear crystal daylight.. its EXACTLY how the cookie crumbles.. be my guest believe in the wishful thinking tooth fairy as hopefully optimistic as you like
Smit starts = we lose
Bismark starts = we win
Klaar gekla see you Sunday after the dastardly deed is finally done…
7 Oct 2011, 18:15 pm
I dont want to give any I told you so’s on Sunday or Monday…
I am supporting my Bok side…
I will even support Donkey although historically he has let us down repeatedly…
No, not for me this cowardly, chicken like, bambi-in-headlights wavering.
Fark that. I support Barney, I support Pieter and I support Bissy to win on Sunday.
And if we win I will come after these traitorous cowardly fuckwits like a hurricane. I will remind them of their weaknesses. Their lack of spines.
Farkem all.
7 Oct 2011, 18:16 pm
Okay I tried to follow the arguments on here but it seems people are either saying the same thing over and over in a different way or not saying anything at all really.
What I do think most of us forget when discussing selections is that we do it on a game plan WE would like to see and not the one we KNOW will be implemented on the day.
For my money, this team selected is pretty much spot on given the team we are up against, and players to implement and execute the game plan for a full 80 minutes.
I read somewhere about journalists and who they reckon should play…
Firstly, if we use journalist as rugby authorities (most of them, not all) then we should rather stop watching or debating the game of rugby.
Secondly, from a couple of ‘teams of the tournament’ or pool stages I saw, I am confused how a player like Francois Hougaard makes a form XV (starting) when his inclusion is based on his form as an impact player…
Am I the only one that finds this mind-boggling?
7 Oct 2011, 18:16 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-330: Ja, farkof till Sunday, you spineless lump of jelly…
7 Oct 2011, 18:18 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-332: What is your prediction?
7 Oct 2011, 18:19 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-332: In whose Form XV is Hougaard?
I presume for the RWC Form XV?
7 Oct 2011, 18:19 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-334:
CC: Bulls, Lions, Sharks, Cheetahs
RWC: Ireland, France, SA, NZ
7 Oct 2011, 18:20 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-335:
Ja dude it was the form XV for the pool stages I believe.
Cannot remember for the life of me which site’s it was, but must have been either Rugby365 or RWC official site…
7 Oct 2011, 18:21 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-329: I’m very passionate about my team and our chances. I’m just not THAT confident. We can win, and I think we have a good chance, but I’m not 100% sure. We can win or lose. Many things can happen; lose one or two players, a few bad decisions….
7 Oct 2011, 18:21 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-329: Got f’all to do with not supporting the Boks.. your support is based on falsified premise.. You are NOT being true to your inner gut…
If they fckup the strategy by employing the WRONG personnel and deploying fake false parameters of reason to decidedly WEAKEN the team and the individuals resolve within the team.. they DO NOT deserve to win.. simple as that….
Hows this dumb fck clown Ratel Brussow suggesting Bismark must simply suck it up that this is a ‘team’ decision and Smitty starts so Bismark must just byt vas and fck the opposition up for Smitty ALSO….
Smitty must do his own poeftaheid dirty work.. he cannot KEEP riding side saddle up front while Bismark and others do ALL the f’ng GRAFT and Smitty sucks up to the kings and the queens and accepts all the f’ng accolades
FCK THAT .. thats a crock of garbage false pretentious bullshit baffling balderdash sets of rugby principles… Smit must FCK OFF if he is NOT EQUAL TO THE TASK of leading his team FROM the FRONT ON MERIT
If Boks have FCKD up WHOLESALE by playing Smit up front and Bismark to CLEAN UP his f’ng MESS every time for a pat on the goody two shoes cheek… FCK THAT.. then Boks simply do not deserve to win if they CANNOT PICK THEIR STRONGEST SIDE FROM KICK OFF .. then they must take the consequences and carry the can of their stupefied nincompoop dumb fck useless decisions…
7 Oct 2011, 18:22 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-336: mine are the same except the last one Arg as I think the choke is coming out this weekend and like Gary Kirsten said on ESPN cricket the next All Black coach will be discussing how to deal with the WC choke.
7 Oct 2011, 18:23 pm
Wales
England
Bokke
NZ
7 Oct 2011, 18:24 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-340:
Argentina are missing too many key players – if they were at full strength I would have given them a 30% chance of an upset, right now I am not giving them 10%.
7 Oct 2011, 18:26 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-342: How much chance did you give NZ in the last cricket World Cup?
7 Oct 2011, 18:28 pm
@TheAgent(TheAgent)-338: Its a 50/50 to be sure with the ref playing a part.
Both teams have very contrasting strengths and weakness… I am not confident, hence the bravado, but hellsbells am in full on support mode now.
Call it blind support but I will be shouting, screaming and willing every Bok player on that field come Sunday… even the ones I dont normally rate.
Fark that, we’ve got to be behind our team, otherwise where is the fun in supporting if you can’t support them wholeheartedly?
7 Oct 2011, 18:30 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-337: I reckon North must be up there as form wing so far.
7 Oct 2011, 18:33 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-339: Yeah but you are being negative and actually saying the Boks will definitely lose. I prefer to support wholeheartedly at this stage… No point in being negative about certain players now, unless you are selfishly building up for one of your “I told you so’s”…
Its spineless. But hey, you and Cab must do what you want to do. Use one man as scapegoat before the game is even played… I think thats a load of hogwash now.
7 Oct 2011, 18:34 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-343:
You probably mean Rugby World Cup.
They are always the favourites and for good reason, and the loss against France was a shocker.
But France is very much a tier 1 country, hosted the event and pulled out 80 minutes of rugby only they can.
Argentina does not have the fire-power even to contemplate an upset against New Zealand I am afraid.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-345:
Their captain has even been more impressive, what a player he will turn out to be. Wales is back on the up, I reckon they will dominate NH rugby for the next couple of years actually.
North has amazing balance for such a big guy. Real talent.
7 Oct 2011, 18:34 pm
Smit is a f’ng LOSER… I’ve had my FILL with f’ng losers.. I seen ENOUGH of that hopeless puffed up egocentric hump of f’ng lardass LOSING EVERY f’ng game he runs on the field LEADING his f’ng team from the f’ng REAR
Smit is a F’NG LOSER.. and LOSERS do NOT deserve to win ANYTHING
Thank fck Sunday is the last time I gotta watch this dumb fck hopeless lump of losing lost cause lardass cause any more f’ng losing every time he dons the green and gold..
Enough is f’ng ENOUGH !!
Pity is he has caused every one ELSE to lose as well as a result of his useless LOSING f’ng mentality .. even those that should be WINNERS like BISMARK gotta suck it up and be a LOSER because they are carrying a fckng LOSER on their shoulders for posterity … Sucks Big Time.. and is one fat crock of bullshit baffling crass garbage losing sentimental trash.. Fck Off Smit.. You done ENOUGH f’ng damage for ONE lifetime ALREADY.. GET f’ng GONE.. before your fckd up legacy causes any more LOSING in its fckd up wake…
7 Oct 2011, 18:34 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-336: France…? Interesting. Ireland too.
7 Oct 2011, 18:36 pm
Ratel Brussow praat nie half kak nie. Plod fanboys need to wake up and see Bissie is levels ahead of him as a player, almost as embarrassing as skoppie using statistics to prove snorre isn’t **** when he inherited the most settled and talented players of any coach in my lifetime.
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