Bye Bye England
8 Oct 2011
MARK KEOHANE reports from Auckland on another famous French World Cup win.
For once New Zealanders could appreciate it when a group of French rugby players get that mad look in their eye, defy logic, form and common sense and win a rugby game in which few gave them a chance.
France usually reserves the unexpected for the All Blacks (1999 and 2007) but against a limp England passion and patience was enough of a Saturday night drink to daze England and make them look like the rugby drunks they have been all tournament.
France won 19-12 and could have had more points, but for two missed penalties and two missed conversions. They led 16-0 in a first 40 when England came close to scoring in the last movement of the half but never exerted enough pressure to even win a penalty kick at posts.
The French pack was superior and individually hooker William Servat and No 8 Imanol Harinordoquy were immense, especially in the first hour. Scrumhalf Dimitri Yachvilli played conductor in that period in which France triumped because of bloody mindedness more than brilliance. It was similar to the win against the All Blacks in 2007 because this was a grind in the last quarter, but the two matches don’t rate in comparison.
French captain Thierry Dusautoir said as much afterwards, telling the media that in 2007 France had beaten the best team in the world to advance to the semi-finals, but this was not the case at Eden Park.
England are a poor side. They beat Argentina 13-9 and needed 75 minutes to subdue the Pumas. They then needed a 78th minute try to beat Scotland 16-12 and up until the 78th minute against France they trailed 19-7.
England losing is good riddance. They were diabolical on the night, as they have been all tournament. Coach Martin Johnson thought otherwise and applauded the courage of his team. He felt England were the more creative team and that the difference was France took their limited chances and scored early. England, he said, were always chasing the game and were lacking in composure. But he added this was the England team of the future and that he (as coach) wasn’t planning on going anywhere in a hurry.
England, in 2007, were bad in losing to South Africa 36-0 but upstaged Australia 12-10 in the quarter-final before edging France. In the final they were a poor second to the Boks.
In four years little has been advanced in this England team. The Boks and All Blacks have smashed them by record margins in London, the Wallabies have beaten them in London and Wales, Ireland, Scotland and France have also enjoyed success against a side that has never settled on a pattern of play. Neither has Johnson ever had the conviction to axe those who played with him in the 2003 World Cup success in Australia.
Hero of the 2003 World Cup victory Jonny Wilkinson was among those Johnson refused to give up on, but the once great kicker was a shadow of the player who won England the World Cup with a right footed drop goal. Wilkinson, so plagued by injury in the last five years, kicked at 60 percent at the 2007 World Cup in France and he ended this tournament with the worst goalkicking average of the leading kickers with just 10 from 20.
Johnson subbed him on the hour and he will not play for England again. It was a cruel way for him to go, but there was nothing cruel about the manner of English defeat.
England, on the night, were dire and a Marc Cueto try in the 78th minute added to the illusion this was a close match. It never was. England were never in the game and only referee Steve Walsh’s charity ensured they stayed in the game. Walsh penalised France 11 times in the last hour before finally giving the victors a penalty in the last minute.
England at this World Cup have been a disgrace in the way they behaved and played. The tournament is the richer for their departure. Wales will play France in what should be a magnificent World Cup semi-final match.
1,082 Comments
Pages: « 1 … 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 … 22 » Show All
8 Oct 2011, 13:40 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-646:
how odd,
every time I read
“602.wooden spoon:
8 Oct 2011, 13:03 pm Kiwi Troll Alert!”
I think of a Childs story book.
8 Oct 2011, 13:40 pm
@nama1(nama1)-645: What team do you support anyway in the RWC? The Boks under PdV?
Ou nama1, my bloed is groen.
Die ding met PDV, hy is baie loyal. That’s a good thing. I have much respect for that. He sticks up for his players through thick and thin – even when Burger was embroiled in that eye gouging business (he deflected all of the criticism on to himself with his ballerina comments).
Tactically, I’m not so sure he is the most astute. I haven’t seen a “Plan B” in 4 years.
No doubt he and the team are giving of their best to hold on to Bill. I wish them luck, they can do it!
8 Oct 2011, 13:40 pm
“We just don’t know how THEY will react playing under pressure in a play-off game”
John Smit still don’t know how the Wallabies react under pressure after playing nearly ten years against them.
Does his comment tell us something about the Boks game plan for tomorrow?
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-636:
Are you looking for reaction?
8 Oct 2011, 13:41 pm
@chch(chch)-638:
real old-school rugby fans, just happy to be here.
hot chicas too….
8 Oct 2011, 13:41 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-646:Keep it above the belt.
8 Oct 2011, 13:42 pm
@nama1(nama1)-645: oh and PS, I’d rather the Bokke face Wales!
Beat them properly this time!
But there is only a small matter of two (much bigger) games before that chance encounter.
8 Oct 2011, 13:43 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-655: seriously, I’m in shock!
8 Oct 2011, 13:44 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-616: Exactly. The Ireland win over Australia is the ONLY upset in this world cup. Tonga beating France was not a upset as France still advanced to the quarter in the draw they were gonna be in. If Tonga beat France and knocked them out of the tournement the that would have been the biggest upset. But beating France and France still going through was not big upset really.
With Ireland beating Oz. It change the whole side of our draw. With Boks facing Oz in the quarter instead of Wales.
Wales then actually had the easier route than us. Who would have thought that if you win your pool you take the hardest route.
If we lost to Wales we would have been in a easy route. Doubt we would have lost to Ireland or France. We just may have seen the dream final with Boks/ABs
8 Oct 2011, 13:44 pm
CHCH#619 thanks for pointing that out to me i have met ozzies and kiwis in europe and the “rivalry” is still there it is a bit like the scots and the poms.I am scottish by birth but have spent a lot of my life in south africa and i am now south african in all but birth,i have pommie friends in sa and i get on with them ok,but i LOVE it when their sports teams get beaten as according the english press all their teams have to do is turn up and they will win but i am so glad they are out of the RWC and they nearly got beaten by montenegro last night.When Glasgow Celtic became the first Scottish team to win the european football cup the english press called them the first “british” team to win and not the first scottish team.When Manchester United won the european cup the english press called them the first english team to win and not the second british team to win.In the uk it is all about england and to hell with the rest.That is why scotland ireland and wales LOVE it when the poms get beat.I hope you can understand all this.
8 Oct 2011, 13:44 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-650:
It would be rude not to.
You ?
8 Oct 2011, 13:45 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-646:
Concerning BP:
“The way you conduct yourself on this forum…………………………………..”.
The manner in which Le Panther conducts himself here,
is worthy of a Honorary Doctorate from the University of Keo.Comedy.
Such is his precise needle work and attention to the facts.
8 Oct 2011, 13:46 pm
@Puma(Puma)-658: No Puma
Tonga beating France, despite nothing resting on the result, was still an upset.
A big one too.
8 Oct 2011, 13:46 pm
@Puma(Puma)-658:
Puma you’ll be getting nervous mate, good luck for tomorrow!
8 Oct 2011, 13:46 pm
@Puma(Puma)-658:
“Tonga beating France was not an upset”
HUH?!
WHA ?!
WTF ?!
8 Oct 2011, 13:46 pm
@cane(cane)-661: is that the BTroll degree?
8 Oct 2011, 13:47 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-664: so how much do you see your team beating Argentina by tomorrow?
8 Oct 2011, 13:48 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-630:
“discombobulated?”
Don’t use big words like that. You are totally confusing me here. Care to explain what it means. I’m just a humble ou Nama.
I’ll repeat the QUESTION:
Were you not the guy who officially handed in his Bok supporters card on this site? The guy who said that he won’t support this Bok team for as long as PdV is the coach? That after they played so kak during last year’s 3N.
A simple yes or no will suffice.
No need to get your knickers in a knot over a simple question.
8 Oct 2011, 13:48 pm
There have only been 3 genuine upsets this world cup.
8 Oct 2011, 13:48 pm
@cane(cane)-661:
I feel like Ive just kissed the Popes ring
(steady on)
8 Oct 2011, 13:49 pm
@Puma(Puma)-658:
Depends which France turned up to play your Mob Puma.
For 40 minute today, they were magic.
8 Oct 2011, 13:49 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-641:That is not a term I use often but I feel it is very relevant at this exact juncture, me being one.
8 Oct 2011, 13:49 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-660:
no mate unfortunately, was in town for the opening gig but had to get back to the family, most of the boys back home have tickets so no doubt i’ll get a few text messages throughout the game(s).
8 Oct 2011, 13:49 pm
@nama1(nama1)-667:
Answer: No
Honestly, I think you must be confusing me with someone else.
8 Oct 2011, 13:50 pm
1 minute an audience with the Pope
the next
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-666:
the Number of the Beast.
~~~~~~~~~burrrrrrrrp~~~~~~~
8 Oct 2011, 13:52 pm
@nama1(nama1)-667:
Further to my answer at #673 above, this is the second time you have put this false allegation to me, and the second time I have given you the same answer.
Untwist your kickers please.
8 Oct 2011, 13:53 pm
Seriously Panther, how much do you see the Kiwis beating Arg by tomorrow?
8 Oct 2011, 13:53 pm
@Puma(Puma)-658:
So tell me Puma, will it be an upset if the Wallabies beat us tomorrow? They did win 5 out of the last six matches we played against them, you know?
8 Oct 2011, 13:54 pm
And if it helps your discombobulated memory, I believe you are thinking of the blogger who now goes by the name SambaBok (also a Sharks fan, supposedly).
8 Oct 2011, 13:55 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-664: No not strictly speaking. What did it do to the tourney? Nothing.
You can only say upset if it upsets the course of the team. Or knocks them out. Tonga beating France had no bearing on France’s tournement at all. They advanced to play England in the quarter like they were going to do. So no upset there at all.
Good for Tonga only.
8 Oct 2011, 13:56 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-669:
Do you deny you deal in facts ?
And your needle is not sharp ?
8)
8 Oct 2011, 13:57 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-672:
twins too
*ouch*
a crash course in parenting.
magic innit. Enjoy it fella, the little buggers tend to grow up.
Ive taken my kids to 1 match each, the Mrs to a couple, and a couple with da fellas. Waikato Stadium for ABs vs Japan was cool with my God-daughter, hadnt been there before. Tomorrow the Qter. Then both Semis and the Big One.
I tells ya, this introduction back in to NZ Life has been reeeeeeeeal tough.
8 Oct 2011, 13:57 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-676:
10 to 15 would do
8 Oct 2011, 13:58 pm
I know he also occasionally deals in lies, this much has been exposed before.
B.Troll and B.Lie degrees perhaps?
8 Oct 2011, 13:59 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-649: so being a racist is fine, as long as you don’t have a lot of racist laws to back you up? i am confused, i wasn’t the one to bring up the race card, but if you live in glass house , don’t through stones!!
8 Oct 2011, 13:59 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-671:
You realise of course that you just called yourself a hottie. Don’t then feel offended if a white oke like KK calls you that in future.
Certain terms are off limits on a site like this even if to describe yourself. Next thing you know Hondo will address me as such because you made it OK to use the term on this site.
Just don’t.
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-675:
allegation/question?
Vok, what’s the difference>
8 Oct 2011, 14:02 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-668:
3 Upsets.
- Tonga Vs france 2011.
- SA poisoning NZ 1995.
- Samoa Vs Wales 98 (i think).
8)
8 Oct 2011, 14:03 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-681:
crawling now all hell is about to break loose, what a great couple of weeks you’re going to have the atmosphere when I was home was just starting to build so it will be superb by now, enjoy!
8 Oct 2011, 14:03 pm
@nama1(nama1)-677: Hello Nama how you doing bud? Hope well.
No Nama, from here on it is strength against strength. If Wallabies beat us it is not a upset. If we beat them it is also not a upset. Even if they have beaten us more in the last 5 games.
A upset in a tournament is when it changes the course of the way it should have gone. That is only when you can call something a upset.
Facing Wallabies is a upset to Boks and Oz. Cause we were supposed to be facing Ireland in our draw and they should have played Wales this moring if they had won their game against Ireland.
Ireland beating Australia caused the only upset in this world cup by changing the course of a team that had to move over to another draw.
8 Oct 2011, 14:03 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-678:
See how easy that was?
Apologies if I offended you with my QUESTION.
Here’s a cigar.
8 Oct 2011, 14:06 pm
@cane(cane)-686: if and it at best an if the kiwis were poisoned, then don’t blame us, if susie does exist then it was an english betting syndicate that arranged it, but once again don’t let facts get tin the way!
8 Oct 2011, 14:06 pm
@nama1(nama1)-689: sorry, ek verstaan nie. You spew a false allegation (couched as a question) and yet now you flip it over like a sunny side egg as though you intended it.
In reality, your memory is simply failing you, ou humble Nama1.
8 Oct 2011, 14:06 pm
@cane(cane)-686: Fifi beating Wales in 200y was a upset. Cause everyone expected Wales to go through. Wales got knocked out cause Fiji beat them
Tonga beating France never caused a upset. France still advanced to the quarter. If that win caused them to be knocked out then yes it would have been a upset.
8 Oct 2011, 14:07 pm
@cane(cane)-686: haha you kiwi chaps know how to keep up a good whinge
8 Oct 2011, 14:07 pm
@Puma(Puma)-692: 200y = 2007
8 Oct 2011, 14:07 pm
Ok i am back, was overcome by narness and fragility, seems i am not as young and divine as i once was and cant go the whole night having fun and not sleeping.
My broer is in its moer, Congrats froggies, would hate to be a supporter of you guys way way to mercurial, pommie supports sorrrrrrrrryyyyyyy your ball handling skills let you down ver ver badly.
GO BOKKIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
8 Oct 2011, 14:08 pm
@Puma(Puma)-688:
If they have beaten you Okes in 5 of the last 6!
Then you are due a win.
8)
But it will not come without diligence and application.
8)
8 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
@Puma(Puma)-692: fifi lololololololololol have a cat called fifi, hiho Puma
8 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
@Puma(Puma)-692: OK Puma, so in the final pool game between NZ and Canada… nothing was resting on the result… if NZ lost, they would have still gone through as the first placed team. If Canada won, well, they would still have failed to progress.
Now, if Canada had beaten NZ, would that not have been an “upset”?
8 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
Steve Boggan, writing in The Independent (London), also explored the possibility of the team having been deliberately poisoned. Boggan states that the private investigator that Mains hired “established that a South African waitress known only as “Susie” had been paid to slip Indian trick into the team’s tea and coffee on the eve of the final. He did not say, however, how he could be sure or who had paid the waitress.” [8] However, Boggan also went on to admit that the events were still highly in question, stating that “Some believe the fact that no official inquiry has ever been conducted by the New Zealand rugby authorities speaks volumes about how they view the claims. The new allegations were certainly not being taken seriously by the South Africans.
8 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
@cane(cane)-686: Cane did you kiwis poison Hougaard and FdP? They were both down this week with food poisoning.
Pages: « 1 … 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 … 22 » Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.