Bye Bye England
8 Oct 2011
MARK KEOHANE reports from Auckland on another famous French World Cup win.
For once New Zealanders could appreciate it when a group of French rugby players get that mad look in their eye, defy logic, form and common sense and win a rugby game in which few gave them a chance.
France usually reserves the unexpected for the All Blacks (1999 and 2007) but against a limp England passion and patience was enough of a Saturday night drink to daze England and make them look like the rugby drunks they have been all tournament.
France won 19-12 and could have had more points, but for two missed penalties and two missed conversions. They led 16-0 in a first 40 when England came close to scoring in the last movement of the half but never exerted enough pressure to even win a penalty kick at posts.
The French pack was superior and individually hooker William Servat and No 8 Imanol Harinordoquy were immense, especially in the first hour. Scrumhalf Dimitri Yachvilli played conductor in that period in which France triumped because of bloody mindedness more than brilliance. It was similar to the win against the All Blacks in 2007 because this was a grind in the last quarter, but the two matches don’t rate in comparison.
French captain Thierry Dusautoir said as much afterwards, telling the media that in 2007 France had beaten the best team in the world to advance to the semi-finals, but this was not the case at Eden Park.
England are a poor side. They beat Argentina 13-9 and needed 75 minutes to subdue the Pumas. They then needed a 78th minute try to beat Scotland 16-12 and up until the 78th minute against France they trailed 19-7.
England losing is good riddance. They were diabolical on the night, as they have been all tournament. Coach Martin Johnson thought otherwise and applauded the courage of his team. He felt England were the more creative team and that the difference was France took their limited chances and scored early. England, he said, were always chasing the game and were lacking in composure. But he added this was the England team of the future and that he (as coach) wasn’t planning on going anywhere in a hurry.
England, in 2007, were bad in losing to South Africa 36-0 but upstaged Australia 12-10 in the quarter-final before edging France. In the final they were a poor second to the Boks.
In four years little has been advanced in this England team. The Boks and All Blacks have smashed them by record margins in London, the Wallabies have beaten them in London and Wales, Ireland, Scotland and France have also enjoyed success against a side that has never settled on a pattern of play. Neither has Johnson ever had the conviction to axe those who played with him in the 2003 World Cup success in Australia.
Hero of the 2003 World Cup victory Jonny Wilkinson was among those Johnson refused to give up on, but the once great kicker was a shadow of the player who won England the World Cup with a right footed drop goal. Wilkinson, so plagued by injury in the last five years, kicked at 60 percent at the 2007 World Cup in France and he ended this tournament with the worst goalkicking average of the leading kickers with just 10 from 20.
Johnson subbed him on the hour and he will not play for England again. It was a cruel way for him to go, but there was nothing cruel about the manner of English defeat.
England, on the night, were dire and a Marc Cueto try in the 78th minute added to the illusion this was a close match. It never was. England were never in the game and only referee Steve Walsh’s charity ensured they stayed in the game. Walsh penalised France 11 times in the last hour before finally giving the victors a penalty in the last minute.
England at this World Cup have been a disgrace in the way they behaved and played. The tournament is the richer for their departure. Wales will play France in what should be a magnificent World Cup semi-final match.
1,082 Comments
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8 Oct 2011, 15:10 pm
@cane(cane)-788: No can’t get sick on biltong….hehehe. One food that is safe to eat.
8 Oct 2011, 15:14 pm
@once more unto the breach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-787:
In all honesty Bakkies.
If NZ does not win.
I want the most deserving Team to win.
And on the evidence thus far in the Quarters,
that is France.
They played magical rugby, in the first 40 today.
We shall have to wait until tomorrow, to see what others can do.
Good luck to you and yours. It is to me the most interesting game of the QF’s.
8 Oct 2011, 15:15 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-799:
yep tomorrow is d-day, if the Boks manage to squeak that one, i think they will go onto conquer the ABs without Dan there, what do you reckon 50/50?
8 Oct 2011, 15:17 pm
The only unbeaten teams still in this tournament are the the Boks and the ABs.
Whoever else may play in the final will have already been beaten at this RWC.
8 Oct 2011, 15:18 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-789:
Morne, de Jongh, Alberts, Hougaard, Flo, Jantjies, Deysel plus a few others who’ve since dropped by the wayside.
8 Oct 2011, 15:19 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-789: i refuse to have a battle of wits with the unarmed ……..i am outa here!
8 Oct 2011, 15:20 pm
@cab(cab)-803:
Tomorrow is 50/50, you and I have talked about this many times over the last few years but I still think your backs are your achilles heal I could be proved wrong tomorrow, the men in black won’t lose at the garden of Eden DC or no DC.
8 Oct 2011, 15:20 pm
@cane(cane)-802: you can’t seriously say France are currently the most deserving, after losing to Tonga and putting in a no-show against your boys… all they’ve done is beat England, who have been dire to say the least. if you have to choose someone on that side it must be Wales, who lose narrowly against us and disposed of a decent quality Irish side this morning.
8 Oct 2011, 15:21 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-807:
you sound very confident about NZ at Eden Park – pride comes before a fall me old mucka.
8 Oct 2011, 15:23 pm
Come on the Bokke!
8 Oct 2011, 15:23 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-807: who is Richie’s official replacement should he have to pull out? Vito or Read?
8 Oct 2011, 15:24 pm
you guppieyuppie poeftas and Smitty pitiful arsecreeps don’t know your rugby you rather go into a proper WC contest ..(unlike that last sham affair 4 years ago where 4th rank team kicked 7th rank team to death trading f’ng penalties for 80 minutes) with a f’ng has been passenger because he’s known to sweet talk to refs instead of putting his overrated arse on the line and LOSE , than go in with a proper chance of WINNING by playing a proper world class hooker instead.
Smit must just f’ng LOSE that game tomorrow he’ll deserve to be lynched by his own f’ng gobbledysfunctional self seeking braces that hold up his oversized panteloons
8 Oct 2011, 15:24 pm
@cab(cab)-809:
we’re all good Cab great pack, destructive backs, home crowd, undefeated there since 94′, should I not be confident?
8 Oct 2011, 15:25 pm
Gatland:
“The boys knew that we were either going home on Monday or we’re here until the end of the tournament, so that was the motivation,” Gatland said.
“We’re not ready to go home yet,” added the New Zealander, himself a former Ireland coach
“We know we’re in good shape physically. We felt we’ve got better and better as this competition has gone on.”
The team, Gatland explained, had benefited from the influx of young players, notably teenage wing George North and 23-year-old captain Sam Warburton, and also the fact the World Cup was in New Zealand and not the ‘goldfish bowl’ of Wales.
“There’s no baggage. There’s no fear factor,” he said of the raft of players in their early 20s. “But there’s also a nice balance with some great forwards, with their size and speed, forwards who can carry, and experience up front.
“The youngsters express themselves, they have no fear and there’s a nice mix with some older players. The balance is the best we’ve ever had.
“We were very confident before the game, without sounding too arrogant, that we were capable of winning the game reasonably comfortably.”
Gatland continued: “The great thing is that we’re in New Zealand, we’re not in the bubble that’s Wales so we’re not listening to the pundits every day, we’re not listening to the negativity that sometimes comes out of Wales.”
He also singled out the fact that his team had been drawn in a tough pool alongside defending champions South Africa as one of the reasons they were hitting form at the right time.
“It was a very, very tough pool and to come out of it will have held you in very good stead for a quarter-final and hopefully a semi-final,” he said.
“That first game we lost to South Africa, it could have gone either way (the Springboks won 17-16), and since that we’ve built momentum.
“In the two wins against Namibia and Fiji, we showed a ruthlessness that we may not have shown in the past.
“In the first-half, our defence was absolutely outstanding. It shows what good shape the boys are in.”
Asked if it would be tough to keep the Wales team grounded ahead of their first appearance in the last four since the inaugural World Cup in 1987, Gatland said: “I don’t think it’s going to be hard at all.”
Warburton, while elated with the victory, said all thoughts would now turn to what lay ahead.
“We’re here for another two weeks now, we have to refocus on Monday and look forward to the semi-final,” the Cardiff Blues flanker said.
“We haven’t won anything yet.”
8 Oct 2011, 15:26 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-811:
not 100% sure maybe Vito, would have had Todd in the squad if was selecting as back up
8 Oct 2011, 15:26 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-812: skop you’ve said all of that a thousand times before. Move on to something fresh please.
8 Oct 2011, 15:27 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-813:
if u playing the Boks in a RWC, never. 50/50.
8 Oct 2011, 15:28 pm
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-763: I am really the idea Smittie on first, then Bissie on last to demolish.
Like the idea of worn down opposition facing Bissie at 100% for 20/30 minutes, I am not crazy about him being on for the whole 80 as he seems less effective, plus the boytjie has very little self control and gives away penalties and culd cost us big time. I am as i am sure you know one of the Captain Fantastic fans and no matter what any one says he is playing well right now, all players have whoopsies, have no no more to say on the subject cos i would just be repeating myself and i dont have dementia yet
8 Oct 2011, 15:28 pm
Check this unpatriotic twat just praying for the Boks to lose tomorrow:
Smit must just f’ng LOSE that game tomorrow he’ll deserve to be lynched by his own f’ng gobbledysfunctional self seeking braces that hold up his oversized panteloons
Vark off.
8 Oct 2011, 15:28 pm
@cane(cane)-802:
agreed on that.
they did indeed play ‘the beautiful game’ today.
8 Oct 2011, 15:29 pm
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-763: I really like the idea Smittie on first, then Bissie on last to demolish.
Like the idea of worn down opposition facing Bissie at 100% for 20/30 minutes, I am not crazy about him being on for the whole 80 as he seems less effective, plus the boytjie has very little self control and gives away penalties and culd cost us big time. I am as i am sure you know one of the Captain Fantastic fans and no matter what any one says he is playing well right now, all players have whoopsies, have no no more to say on the subject cos i would just be repeating myself and i dont have dementia yet
8 Oct 2011, 15:31 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-818: my greatest concern is that the game could be lost before Bissy and the impact guys have a chance to turn things around… this is where the plan might fall apart.
8 Oct 2011, 15:32 pm
sorry it was twice couldnt stop it going through
8 Oct 2011, 15:32 pm
hahaah Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-636:
8 Oct 2011, 15:32 pm
@cab(cab)-817:
lets wait and see until tomorrow, would hate for your boys to bow out in the 1/4′s
8 Oct 2011, 15:33 pm
mmm Mcquena and botha swopping recipes in the Bulls game
8 Oct 2011, 15:33 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-808:
no fantastic, i disagree.
that was a good, controlled performance by the french more than it was a poor performance by the english. i don’t think the welsh will hold up to them next weekend. they may be a lot more competitive in next weeks game than english were today, but if the french bring the same attitude they will win.
8 Oct 2011, 15:34 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-825:
yeah me too.
argie game might be interesting, those boys can hold a ball when they want to – got zero impetus outback tho.
8 Oct 2011, 15:35 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-811:
aren’t they gonna shift whitelock?
8 Oct 2011, 15:38 pm
@cab(cab)-828:
Should be a close game no big blow out scoreline, i’m off to bed good luck for your big one tomorrow.
8 Oct 2011, 15:38 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-822: I just think that if we are behind when Bissie comes on its fine, cos every one will be tired mentally and physically and the game is 80 minutes long with 22 players not just the first 15, ther is no shame in being the player that comes on a bit later, it just means it is known he will make a huge impact at this stage of the game so therefore has value.
Jeez i hope i made sense to you, most know i not good at the discussing part of the rugby.
8 Oct 2011, 15:39 pm
@once more unto the breach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-827: you make a good point, but i was just saying thus far the more deserving team in my opinion would be Wales… however, next week will be interesting I do agree. the Welsh defence was good today, Ireland was throwing it at them… will be interesting to see how they hold up against the French.
8 Oct 2011, 15:39 pm
eish Kwas now in the lead
8 Oct 2011, 15:56 pm
You Smit lovers are blind…
8 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm
these stupid f’ng morons who have not watched this piece of f’ng lardass LOSE more often than NOT are going into battle clutching at this pathetic piece of self fantasy useless plodding palookas skirt trails hoping for ANOTHER f’ng miracle.
And these pathetic little fckface dream merchants wanna call themselves patriots in spite of their blindness.
Smit must just f’ng LOSE that game like he’s LOST ALL others he’s led since 2009 and I’ll personally ram that overrated fckd up grandiose book of his down his overrated grandiose arrogant egotistical throat.
He better f’ng win tomorrow OR ELSE !!
8 Oct 2011, 15:58 pm
I don’t think people are “Smit lovers”. I think the people you refer to are just decent people who object to what they see as completely over the top, uncalled for personal criticism and abuse of what is our most capped Bok ever.
Smit has dignity, us commentators shouldn’t lose ours.
8 Oct 2011, 15:59 pm
GO BOKKKEEEE!!!!!
8 Oct 2011, 16:03 pm
This skop character still can’t even celebrate the RWC 2007 win.
He doesn’t like Smit, or Burger, or FDP, or Spies.
What chance of him celebrating a win at the RWC 2011?
No f’ckn chance.
Nope, this bozo would much rather the team loses so he can lay a big golden “I told you so” egg on the crowd.
That’s the only way this sad sack will get any pleasure out of this RWC.
8 Oct 2011, 16:03 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-835: Back off the drinks for a bit mate. Smitty will clinch you between his legs while you struggle yourself to death.
It’s a joke… so please no swear words, I’m a sensitive internet user.
8 Oct 2011, 16:04 pm
Still brawling??
8 Oct 2011, 16:06 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-836: How do you know he has dignity? Are you a personal friend? Do you think it’s dignified to swing your weight into your own personal selection ahead of a better player?
Really, the problem with South Africans is they can’t let go. Smit is our most capped therefore we must lick his shoes. No, he must go when the time is right.
Same mentality with Madiba, he did a good thing, has been silent on major issues for years and yet we still love him while his grand children rob us blind. Same old South African mentality…
When you are over, you are over, like an old Lion wander off and get eaten by Jackals, that is dignified.
8 Oct 2011, 16:06 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-840: we are saving energy by recycling. Same subject matter today as it was yesterday, and the day before, and the month before and…
8 Oct 2011, 16:06 pm
wales game proved it is a young mans game….
and we stuck with the Plod ober Bissy in his prime
and a right wing masquerading as a 8 MAN….
Please PDV….if its going pear shaped dont hesitate to bring on the cavalry early…..Willem Alberts and Bissy starting I would be feeling so much more relaxed…..now I can hardly breathe with apprehension. Damit man…..my anxiety levels are through the charts…
8 Oct 2011, 16:07 pm
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-841: hold on, I thought we had a panel of 3 selectors who do the selecting.
Now you are saying the players select themselves?
8 Oct 2011, 16:09 pm
poms need some self introspection….booze culture and the tindall scene really farked them over…..amateurs man…need to catch a wakey wakey
8 Oct 2011, 16:12 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-401: God you are the most negative person I have ever come across! Jeez man get some anti-depressants or go see someone. Grumpy old man.
8 Oct 2011, 16:12 pm
@grant10(grant10)-845: English clubs should stop importing the guys from the south and develop their own.
8 Oct 2011, 16:13 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-844: Hmm, and you think ‘the most respected and capped Captain of all time, Captain Fantastic bring me back from france to save the world’ has no say… really… are you simple?
8 Oct 2011, 16:14 pm
Plod has a huge say in selections….he could easily of vetoed his selection ……but he is self absorbed….I tell you….we lose he and pdv will be ostracised for all time….
He should of taken the bench option…..then he would have insullated himself against the nuclear outfall…..now he is firmly in the firing line…..
anyone telling me Plod does not know that bissy is far better than he is at 2 is only fooling themselves….
8 Oct 2011, 16:14 pm
@grant10(grant10)-843: Just relax man what will be will be. We are lucky to get this far with the two clowns in charge – Smit and Divvy.
If we lose I hope Smit and Divvy get pelted with eggs at OR Tambo and someone takes a sjambok to their heads. They will have been a disgrace to our country.
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