PdV quits as Boks crash out
9 Oct 2011
Peter de Villiers has quit after coaching the Springboks to a World Cup quarter-final defeat in Wellington.
De Villiers’ contract has expired and after a four year tenure marked by controversy and criticism, he will opt not to put forward his name as a candidate for the now vacant post.
‘Its been a brilliant journey and one that none of you [the media] can take away from me,’ he said. ‘There’s a time to come and a time to go. The journey is over.
‘I enjoyed it. I was in a privileged position to be able to contribute to my country. South African rugby is in a good state and will move forward after this.’
Asked how he wanted to be remembered, De Villiers said: ‘As the best me I could be.’
De Villiers ends his career with a 63% success rate, winning 30 of his 48 Tests. However, measured against the best in the world he has struggled. With the defeat in Wellington this evening his record against Australia dipped to four wins from 12, while he has won just five from 11 against the All Blacks.
De Villiers enjoyed the bulk of his success in 2009, winning a series against the British & Irish Lions, as well as the Tri-Nations. However, outside of that the Springboks have struggled, this with arguably the finest generation of players in decades at his disposal.
His loyalty to captain John Smit, despite the rise of the incomparable Bismarck du Plessis, has elicited severe criticism. He sought out Smit in 2008 while the Test veteran was contracted to French outfit Clermont, offering him the captaincy, then persisting with him despite Smit touching the ceiling of his potential in 2009.
Smit was liberal in his praise of De Villiers. ‘We’ve had a good four years. He isn’t a coach in the usual mould but one we’ve thoroughly enjoyed,’ Smit said. ‘He has given us leeway and space and tightened the reigns when he needed to. He is a great man and coach.’
De Villiers was appointed ahead of superior candidates, most notably Heyneke Meyer, in 2008, South African Rugby Union president Oregan Hoskins citing ‘reasons other than rugby credentials’ as the reason for the decision.
There isn’t a clear favourite for the post. Meyer has signed a long-term deal with the Bulls as their director of rugby and has indicated repeatedly to this website that he isn’t considering applying for the job. The Stormers duo of Rassie Erasmus and Allistair Coetzee are expected to toss their names into the hat, while others like Lions coach John Mitchell and former Saracens head Brendan Venter have been mentioned as possible candidates.
By Ryan Vrede, in Wellington.
695 Comments
9 Oct 2011, 10:01 am
Now we can all exhale Dragons
9 Oct 2011, 10:02 am
so who do we think should be the new coach and captain?
Im saying heyneke meyer and andries bekker? Thoughts?
9 Oct 2011, 10:03 am
YEAAYYYY. This actually kind of offsets our loss against AUS lol (well not really actually…i’m devastated). Springbok rugby needs a real coach ’cause we’ve got some awesome players, and with a guy like Eddie Jones we (could have) could dominate world rugby.
9 Oct 2011, 10:03 am
You, Smit and the rest can now go and chew the fat. Just please all of you keep away from the Bok jersey, thanks.
9 Oct 2011, 10:03 am
And the world breathes a collective sigh of relief
9 Oct 2011, 10:06 am
This can only be a good thing for SA rugby.
9 Oct 2011, 10:06 am
I actually kind of feel sorry for PDV. He was totally out of his depth and he didn’t have the guts and character to impose his views (not that that would have been a good thing). He just let “John” lead the team. We need a real coach now (one who has at least already coached at super15 level…………not a quota) with some real rugby knowledge.
9 Oct 2011, 10:06 am
Captain will probably be Schalk, coach no idea really
Try Argentina!
9 Oct 2011, 10:06 am
@mcaj(mcaj)-2: Bekker? WTF are you smoking son?
Coach should be Meyer, won’t be, look to Coetzee from WP, after all we need a dark person in charge now, at least someone who knows the shape of a rugby ball.
You want to groom a proper Captain for the future, go on, make Pat Lambie Cappie but you will get chilliboy
9 Oct 2011, 10:07 am
The end of his journey… And the end of our suffering. May God give us the coach our talented young players deserve !
9 Oct 2011, 10:07 am
@Pirlet BEL(Pirlet BEL)-7: Feel fokkal for him, he got paid a lot to be a clown and ruin SA rugby.
9 Oct 2011, 10:07 am
OR, HOW ABOUT NICK MALLETT. He’s a bloody good coach. I’d take him any day.
9 Oct 2011, 10:08 am
Phone Nick Mallett…
and beg!!
9 Oct 2011, 10:08 am
@Pirlet BEL(Pirlet BEL)-12:
Snap
9 Oct 2011, 10:08 am
@goyougoodthing2(goyougoodthing2)-11: I don’t really feel sorry for him
he’s a clown and he did nothing for springbok rugby…
9 Oct 2011, 10:10 am
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Coach: Meyer
Captain: The “Incredible” Schalk
PDV to be honest only lost the plot in the last 2 years, but it’s definitely time for a change. If only, Julius was as sensible
9 Oct 2011, 10:11 am
Realistically, we wont get another white coach. Just as with pdivvy, saru will want to show their intent with transformation. So hopefully it’ll be allister coetzee. And the captain will probably be chilliboy.. He was always part of the springbok team to become our next captain.. Unfortunately for bismark, he might remain an impact player..
9 Oct 2011, 10:11 am
@TheBandit(TheBandit)-16: PDV never had a plot.
9 Oct 2011, 10:13 am
Hallelujah….
9 Oct 2011, 10:14 am
Enter Alistair Coetzee…
9 Oct 2011, 10:15 am
very surprised you were not asked to stay on.
9 Oct 2011, 10:15 am
So there is a god.
9 Oct 2011, 10:15 am
i must say i like the thought of eddie jones as coach but i dont the SA rugby would allow a non SA coach…
9 Oct 2011, 10:16 am
This clown has stuffed up a seriously good SA team, we need someone like Heyneke to rebuild SA rugby. This will not happen over night…..
9 Oct 2011, 10:17 am
Good riddence to Krusty, he nailed JW during RWC 2007, he said the right things in 2008 when he took over as the head coach … then he together with Plod destroyed the world champions that Jake built.
He is as kak a coach as Strooli.
9 Oct 2011, 10:17 am
F-u-c-k you de Villiers, take the lapdogs and that selfish pig with you.
9 Oct 2011, 10:19 am
am I am so tired of everyone saying “with the Boks you know what you are going to get.”
Direct
Physical
Inflexible
Incapable of adapting
Brawn over brain
Scrambling defence
Guts
We need to change this. Add more arrows to the quiver, more like.
I can’t see any of Erasmus, Coetsee and Meyer being capable to provide the necessary arrows.
Brendan Venter perhaps? Too out of the box for most [conservative] South Africans, perhaps?
Otherwise I’m all for an overseas coach with a winning record. We need fresh ideas.
9 Oct 2011, 10:21 am
Nothing became him in his career like the leaving of it.
9 Oct 2011, 10:21 am
@Kayoss although i wouldnt mind coetzee, i think meyer is better suited to traditional SA Rugby i.e. big bruising forwards who will intimidate the opposition.
9 Oct 2011, 10:21 am
@mcaj(mcaj)
Not a bad call those two. Like heyneke but not sure if they’ll go for him, think SB will get the nod for cappie. But after the dissapointment at least we got something to look forward to.
Do you think they’ll maybe go for a foreign coach?
9 Oct 2011, 10:22 am
Not Mallett, don’t think he’s got the skill set for the modern game … Probably Coetzee, bigger question will be who he will choose to be part of his team … Schalk as captain …
9 Oct 2011, 10:23 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-26: dude, go grab a valium
9 Oct 2011, 10:23 am
Time for either Meyer, Mallet or John Mitchell. Coetzee…….jeez what has he done in CT? Please not another political appointment.
9 Oct 2011, 10:24 am
Chaucer!
9 Oct 2011, 10:24 am
I cannot recall in Bok history when we last had a period of 4 years with such a good crop of players. Its a crying shame we didn’t have the coach to support these guys.
Looking forward to the next chapter. Long live the Bok. The Bok will always be there for us
9 Oct 2011, 10:24 am
@mcaj(mcaj)-29: that’s the last thing we need.
Smart always beats Big.
Today was proof of that.
9 Oct 2011, 10:25 am
Hmmm, this news comes 4years to late.
Try to always look for positives when things like this are announced,
Err, YES!!!
Good riddance. You should never have had the job.
Let’s choose the best coach now, not the best one available for “not only” rugby reasons.
Would love Nick again, but somehow think AC is gonna get the nod, which would be bad.
Meyer would also be a good call.
Even Brendan Venter with Alan Solomons
9 Oct 2011, 10:25 am
@XV(XV)-33: too white, outdated ideas and too foreign …
9 Oct 2011, 10:25 am
june/july/august 2009 will always belong to pdivy. And that off the back of a Bulls dominant superrugby showing.
every thing else was pish.
Inherited as talented a group of players and ready built team as any coach could hope for…..and turned it into a lesser team in my opinion.
9 Oct 2011, 10:26 am
@mcaj(mcaj)-23: Australia did, and they’re in the semis. Wales did, and they’re in the semis too.
Connect the dots.
What did John Mitchell’s team do to Allister Coetzee’s team?
Connect more dots.
Get the picture?
9 Oct 2011, 10:26 am
But Skop and the other crazies will harp on how we beat NZ in NZ etc. Now to move forward! Do we have quality coaches in SA? I don’t think so!
9 Oct 2011, 10:26 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-36: well, partially agree, we need big and smart …
9 Oct 2011, 10:27 am
Don’t quite get Coetsee, sorry.
Reds and Crusaders whumped the Stormers in CT this year. Stormers couldn’t score many tries either.
Yes, he coached the Stormers to two consecutive playoffs but it was never quite enough in the end and that isn’t enough for the Bokke.
We need a winner in charge with fresh, out of the box ideas..
9 Oct 2011, 10:27 am
@goyougoodthing2-18
No plot yes, but he had a plod.
9 Oct 2011, 10:27 am
mallet or mitchell
9 Oct 2011, 10:27 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-34: Shakespeare.
9 Oct 2011, 10:28 am
“With the defeat in Wellington this evening his record against Australia dipped to four wins from 12, while he has won just five from 11 against the All Blacks.”
IMHO, 5 wins, 6 losses vs the ABs is not bad at all. There aren’t too many coaches who can boast better record.
He struggled vs Aussies though.
9 Oct 2011, 10:28 am
Halleluja! I hope Smit follows suit. SA rugby paid a huge price for a senseless, politically-correct decision.
9 Oct 2011, 10:28 am
Eddie Jones is the man, but he’s non South African. Nick Mallet next, hope he’s not too white. Heynecke Meyer, I doubt he’d want to leave the Bulls & leave his new project of reviving the B’alls. That leaves Allister Coetzee. Surprise package could be Rassie.
9 Oct 2011, 10:29 am
4 years ago when PDV took over everybody was scared stiff he would destroy the team that Jake built. He didn’t. He did what we all wanted and what turned out to be the right decision because I dont believe there are very many players sitting at home that would have turned out a better performance than the guys did in Wellington today.
We came unstuck because we lack creativity going forward. And that is a traditional weakness of South African sides that has been there consistently since we returned from isolation. The difference now is that defensive patterns and indiviudal tackling skills have improved beyond recognition from 20 (or even 10) years ago.
Scoring tries is becoming difficult for any side but its going to be even more difficult for sides that run at defenders for 15 phases instead of at gaps. With the amount of posession we had today we really should have been able to deliver a ko blow.
Seems noone wants to blame the ref either but it is very strange how during the super 15 the first question on the mind of every ref at every ruck was “Has the tackled player been released and allowed to place the ball”, while come this world cup its like that rule doesn’t exist. It certainly wasnt a thought on Bryce Lawrences mind today but to be fair it seems like none of the refs have given it much focus throughout the tournament.
One last thing… with all the time we spent in their 22, why not a couple more drop goals????
9 Oct 2011, 10:29 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-36:
It can go either way. So far big (2 WC wins = SA), smart (2 WC wins = AUS). Think there is a case for both.
Although I would love to see SA play an expansive game, I just cant see it with a SA coach. It will need someone to come in and make radical changes. Being realistic, cant see that happening.
9 Oct 2011, 10:29 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-40: true true!!!
9 Oct 2011, 10:29 am
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-40: that’s partially true though, Aussies have definitely beefed up their forward approach and become more physical … same for Wales, definitely much more physical than in recent years
You need both sides, but agree SA needs controlled, smart physicality
9 Oct 2011, 10:29 am
Cheers Peter… All the best in your future endeavours…
It’s been interesting… never a dull moment.
Never doubted your passion for the rugby and the Boks…
Go well!!
9 Oct 2011, 10:29 am
Generally you want you capain to play the whole game – or at least till you have it wrapped up. Like Ritchie or Horwill.
Schalk should in future be rotated off the bench by Alberts (gotta keep Heinrich on as 7 – what we bizarrely call 6) and who knows who will be our next #8? No other obvious candidate though so Schalk in the interim.
9 Oct 2011, 10:30 am
@Nils(Nils)-47: For a South African, 4 from 12 against the Aussies is shocking. In the past, we never really had any problem beating Australia.
9 Oct 2011, 10:30 am
@danuk(danuk)-42:
totally agree.
we need today’s performance with better finishing (and better ruck management by both players and the ref).
9 Oct 2011, 10:31 am
Schalk for captain…
Alister, Mitchell or Kirwan for coach…
9 Oct 2011, 10:31 am
If I am not mistaken Meyer has intimated quite strongly that he is no longer interested in the job.
Rassie has to be the best candidate… Wouldnt mind Nick applying…. Coetzee will probably get it… Dont suppose anyone gna buy Jake back from the brumbies?
9 Oct 2011, 10:31 am
Schalk for captain. It has to be.
Coach… hmm I think turn it into a Manager role and give it to Rassie Erasmus. The players are professionals who don’t need dictators. They need instructions, and suitable coaches…
9 Oct 2011, 10:32 am
Rassie Erasmus is not head coach material.
9 Oct 2011, 10:32 am
@DontThinkJustWonder(DontThinkJustWonder)-55:
Schalk rotated? I think he proved tonight that he has to go down as one of the Bok greats. He was simply amazing. Made something like 160m on attack… and people complain about him carrying the ball, which is crazy.
9 Oct 2011, 10:34 am
@mcaj(mcaj)-51: I think it starts at provincial level, and there we now have two kiwi coaches influencing the way our teams play … can only be a good thing
9 Oct 2011, 10:34 am
cheers divvy you broke our hoodoo in new zealand & won us titles.
you have no backbone though…
9 Oct 2011, 10:35 am
@danuk(danuk)-63:
So I shall remain hopeful
9 Oct 2011, 10:35 am
@ufo(ufo)-58: really? Kirwan? Based on what credentials? And Coetzee….why? What has he done?
9 Oct 2011, 10:35 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-61:
What makes you say that? I’m suggesting they turn it into more of a selection role, and Rassie I think has good insight into the game. He’s very analytical.
This Springbok side doesn’t need many changes.
Replace the departing players & Pierre Spies, and we are back to having a squad that can win a lot of rugby games.
If Johan Goosen becomes the player I think he will, we’re going to win a couple of Tri Nations before the next WC.
9 Oct 2011, 10:36 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-56: think that’s a little insulting to the Aussies, they are definitely a better team recently, some very good players … and fortunately Quade Cooper, lol
9 Oct 2011, 10:36 am
meyer signed as DoR at the bulls last year and is rebuilding them…don’t know if he’ll ditch them in the lurch like that
9 Oct 2011, 10:37 am
@XV(XV)-52:
Yip Tackles is being amazingly astute of latter….. did anyone pick up the fact that he followed the result of a low key CC game in Sa the same day the WC quarters were on in his “homeland”??
I have being saying Mitchell for four years now
Aaaaaaaah, its good to dream
9 Oct 2011, 10:37 am
Man, if the Argies beat the ABs, we are REALLY gonna kick ourselves for today’s loss really hard !
9 Oct 2011, 10:37 am
Would you believe – they’re playing ”death of a clown” on Cape Talk Radio – ”let’s all drink to the death of a clown”………………..
9 Oct 2011, 10:38 am
There is always justice in a loss. That is the best news I have heard in years. The new coach will now select on merit, not on names. Agree with Hendrikp – let’s hope Spies retires from international rugby too. Good riddance…and nothing to thank him for.
9 Oct 2011, 10:38 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-64: I can recall one title (singular)?
2009 Tri Nations.
Not sure B&IL tour counts as a “title” in the strict sense. Besides, I think we are expected to win those anyway.
My overiding view however is that we should have done a bit better with the consistent and experienced team selections we have seen over the 4 years.
9 Oct 2011, 10:38 am
@frenchiebokfan(frenchiebokfan)-71: I’d rate Wales to take the Aussies
9 Oct 2011, 10:39 am
Schalk is one of the greatest Boks of all time. Certainly of my time.
9 Oct 2011, 10:39 am
Let’s hope that we choose a coach on merit this time.
9 Oct 2011, 10:40 am
@danuk(danuk)-68: not really, South Africa historically dominate Australia in the results department. They improved, we haven’t – not hard to explain the recent swing in results.
9 Oct 2011, 10:40 am
My Proposal : Coach : Rassie Capt : Bissie
9 Oct 2011, 10:40 am
@Ngqawa(Ngqawa)-76:
I’ve been saying it for a few months now. 2nd Greatest Springbok of all time IMO.
It’s a shame so many just don’t like him, and then pretend that he’s not a good player because of it.
9 Oct 2011, 10:41 am
@Ngqawa(Ngqawa)-76:
Yeah and there are many Schalk haters on this site too. LOL Does that sound familiar.
9 Oct 2011, 10:42 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-77: spot on. thats all we want, a merit selection. a coach who is forward thinking, can see where the game is going, and has a proven pedigree
9 Oct 2011, 10:42 am
@XV(XV)-66:
kirwan has done wonders for japan… if he has real quality like sa of abs he would be a great coach… IMO…
a lister has kept a young injury plagued wp cc team in with a sniff of a chance of a semi spot… much against my expectations… and rassie nowhere in site for three months… he has continually had to bring in u21 guys who have slotted in seamlessly… exhibiting much ability from the coach…
IMO
okay sport… who do you want and why…?
9 Oct 2011, 10:43 am
I wouldn’t be against John Mitchell as coach. Not my favored choice, but I wouldn’t be upset either.
@Gerhardt(Gerhardt)-79:
Love Bismarck as a player, but doubt he’s mature enough to be a captain. Doesn’t seem the type that players can go to. If all is fair, it has to be Schalk Burger or Juan Smith (if he continues playing).
9 Oct 2011, 10:43 am
Is Chester Williams still in the loop?
9 Oct 2011, 10:44 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-78: exactly my point, they moved on and improved, we haven’t … all that territory and possession and we still look completely disjointed
9 Oct 2011, 10:46 am
PdV won’t even get the coaching job at Pretoria Boys High. He is finished. Made his money and can retire in Kalkbaai.
9 Oct 2011, 10:46 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-84:
I prefer a youngster, so lead them into next 8 years, like John did when he was 21
9 Oct 2011, 10:48 am
To think we had the chance to change the coach at the end of the hopeless EOYT, yet we kept the clown to make a mockery of South Africans intelligence. Just listening to him saying that Smit is the best 2 in the world makes me shatter with embarassment.
9 Oct 2011, 10:48 am
John was your biggest mistake Peter…
9 Oct 2011, 10:49 am
Potential crucial moment.
9 Oct 2011, 10:49 am
Ouch, excuse me, wrong thread.
9 Oct 2011, 10:50 am
@ufo(ufo)-83: well it depends on your decription of ‘wonders’. IMO Japan has not moved forward at all. AC….he has had a wealth of talented players and yet he cannot get the results. A sniff of a chance to make the CC play-offs …. and you call that an achievement? Sorry not wanting to be harsh on your choices…..but I simply disagree. We need a heavyweight. Id go for Mitchell, Jones, Mallet or Meyer.
9 Oct 2011, 10:51 am
Dont worry, today we won something greater than the world cup, the resignation of PdV.oh happy days.
9 Oct 2011, 10:51 am
@Gerhardt(Gerhardt)-88: I don’t think any player is guaranteed of being the best in his position for 8 long years.
9 Oct 2011, 10:53 am
@Gerhardt(Gerhardt)-88:
Who can come into the side and do that?
Only player around that age who I think is both captaincy material and Springbok material is Arno Botha, and he’s not about to pip any of our current loose-forwards unless the Bulls give him game-time, and he has a brilliant S15.
The Bok squad is too old and experienced to bother with a youngster anyway.
It’s got to be an established player. It has to be Schalk.
9 Oct 2011, 10:53 am
@SteveWarren(SteveWarren)-94:
Amen! This is a day of celebration indeed. From adversity ….. comes hope …. justice and joy.
9 Oct 2011, 10:54 am
@Scaramanga(Scaramanga)-85: Williams, are you fckng mad?
9 Oct 2011, 10:54 am
I think Mitchel has to be the man. Look at what he did with the Lions and what players they have. His got a team playing great with a bunch of unknown players unlike ac which has done well with wp but with alot of stars and hasn’t really won anything.
9 Oct 2011, 10:54 am
I am going to miss some if his quotes though …
“We are very organised at the moment (after winning 2009 Tri-Nations). We do not want to become a fruit salad.”
9 Oct 2011, 10:54 am
@Bod(bod)-70: it sure is good to dream. Imagine
9 Oct 2011, 10:55 am
the real problem with PDV is that while he inherited a golden generation of springboks, he will leave the cupboard bare – through his inability to blood talent over 4 years. Whoever takes over from him is going to need to be an outstanding coach. he will have to build a team much in the way Jake did. A very difficult thing to do, and it takes time. the smart option is to pick a coach who can build. and not every coach can do that
9 Oct 2011, 10:55 am
Whoever the next coach is, we DO NOT want to hear about a “4 year plan” or that “everything is being built up to the RWC” or “judge me on the World Cup.”
Winning every game must become the priority – improving our rapidly diminishing record against NZ and Aus and beating all the NH teams away.
None of this resting of players in 3N games.
Look where it got us.
Oh, the coach must have a reviewable performance clause in his contract.
9 Oct 2011, 10:56 am
Thank God he’s gone. F politics and the fools at saru for their racism and ineptitude in appointing someone so unqualified. Ridiculous appointment considering his credentials (skin colour) and those the other applicants. F u saru and hoskins.
Let’s hope sense prevails and someone creative, clever and truly competent is appointed looking forward.
9 Oct 2011, 10:56 am
@RL(RL)-98:
I would not wish at all, I was just wondering whether there was a chance for him to be politically sponsored and put in the loop.
You should bring back Mallet, ha has experience, he has been around and knows rugby, the only downside, he tends to fall in love with some players that do not add value…
9 Oct 2011, 10:56 am
@bokke_bo(bokke_bo)-102:
I don’t mind losing a few games, to build a good team – we have lost so many under his charge so it won’t make that much difference.
9 Oct 2011, 10:58 am
@bokke_bo(bokke_bo)-102: that coach is John Mitchell
9 Oct 2011, 10:59 am
The Kiwis don’t look the same without Carter. Hmmm Ozzies could take the semi’s.
9 Oct 2011, 10:59 am
@XV(XV)-93:
mallet’s got the t-shirt… traded on carrel dup’s foundations and slowly tapered off in a miss-mash of miss-mash… there’s a reason eddie jones consults… like JW not many people want to work with him… heyneke like rassie is a better back room boy…
have always liked mitchell and couldn’t believe how he was tossed by the abs…
so we find common ground in mitchell…
time will tell..!!
9 Oct 2011, 11:00 am
@GreenFan(GreenFan)-50:
I think you are pretty much spot on mate
9 Oct 2011, 11:01 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-103:
My sentiments exactly. It’ll take time to build a winning culture but all this emphasis on “judge me on the World Cup” makes me want to vomit.
Every test match is important.
9 Oct 2011, 11:02 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-103:
The goal has to be to get back a positive Head-to-Head record against the All Blacks. That means getting a team that wins NOW, that wins as much as possible.
If they do that, the rest will come together.
9 Oct 2011, 11:02 am
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-111:
Spot on mate. He has made a mockery of international rugby with that statement. It is like going to war and saying the only one worth winning is against the Yanks.
9 Oct 2011, 11:03 am
Comical Ali and Peter are two pees in a pod…
9 Oct 2011, 11:03 am
I think our quality will actually improve, bekker for matfield ganted matfield was massive in this game, hougard or sarel for fdp,bismark for john, one problem is going to be our no 4 lock otherwise the rest remains.
9 Oct 2011, 11:04 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-112: and, FFS, Australia. 4 from 12 against Australia under PDV.
That record needs immediate correcting next year.
9 Oct 2011, 11:04 am
@SteveWarren(SteveWarren)-115:
Elstadt can take that position with pride. He is a 7, but one worth investing in.
9 Oct 2011, 11:04 am
What I posted on a plan forward a few weeks ago. http://www.bokworld.com/2011/09/17/springboks-need-to-plan-forward/
Only thing I would change in hindsight is keep CJ van der Linde in the squad until we find a tight-head who demands a place in the team.
9 Oct 2011, 11:06 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-118:
A pity Mujati didn’t persue his citizenship….
9 Oct 2011, 11:07 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-116:
Of course we need to be a lot better there yes, but at the moment we’re still something like 12 games ahead of them in the all-time head-to-head.
We need to get that back against the All Blacks. They’re getting away from us, which affects the future of Springbok rugby. We need to establish a brand that is ‘the best’. At the moment that belongs to the AB’s, and I’m sick of it.
If we recover the Head-to-Head “title” then we can again claim to be the best rugby nation in the world.
We’ve got the potential to be the best in world rugby… let’s show it.
9 Oct 2011, 11:09 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-103: To be fair, Robbie Deans has been plugging away at a four year plan. And now it’s bearing fruit. There’s a gaping divide between having a 4 year plan and “judge me on the World Cup”.
9 Oct 2011, 11:09 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-116:
Yip
9 Oct 2011, 11:09 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-119:
Mujati was never Bok quality when he was here. Not sure what’s going on with him in Europe, as I only really catch the odd Leicester & Northampton game, but I like CJ more as an out-and-out tighthead anyway.
For now, I’ve got very high hopes for Frans Malherbe.
9 Oct 2011, 11:09 am
@ufo(ufo)-109: good comments. Mitchell would be amazing. And post 119 (Bill)……get Mujati back into the Bok fold asap.
9 Oct 2011, 11:10 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-106: agree
@XV(XV)-107: agree. what he has achieved with the lions is remarkable. clearly he is pedigree and ideally suited to the challenge. listening to him on sunday nights “master plan NZ” its clear he knows his stuff, doesnt take BS and has a winning mentality. perfect!
9 Oct 2011, 11:10 am
I was a big mujati supporter but with his recent moaning and what not he sounds a bit like a whinger and not a good team man. Which is dissapointing because he is a great talent.
9 Oct 2011, 11:10 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-123:
Leicester & Saracens game I mean. Never watch Northampton. They don’t show them on Rugby Channel.
9 Oct 2011, 11:11 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-123:
He has been awesome! A great player now. We never gave the man the chance he needed. His father and farm grabs were damaging to him here.
9 Oct 2011, 11:11 am
@SteveWarren(SteveWarren)-126: agree with this comment. I read comments from him that he never wants to play for the Boks again, anyway.
9 Oct 2011, 11:11 am
PdV did not invest in the future. A new coach has a lot of young talent to work with. Interesting times.
9 Oct 2011, 11:11 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-74: are you considering form & injuries in your assessment?
9 Oct 2011, 11:12 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-114: they both talk rubbish but at least comical Ali talks with conviction
9 Oct 2011, 11:13 am
@bokke_bo(bokke_bo)-125: was that a rugby programme aired in SA?
9 Oct 2011, 11:13 am
Just do not pick that failure AC as the next coach, what a overrated schmuck of a coach he is … needed Eddie to come in and show him how to get the backline going.
9 Oct 2011, 11:14 am
@SteveWarren(SteveWarren)-126:
We can say that about a few players in the present squad as well. A few were only concerned about their own egos mate.
You always retire when you are great and winning. When you leave too late you will always be remembered as being selfish and self centered.
9 Oct 2011, 11:14 am
It’s not like the whole Bok team is retireing iy’s only 5 or 6 players & yes there’ll b more in the next 4 years. Some of the youngsters to take over have been part of the setup 4 atleast a season or so. So I dnt think the new coach will be realy rebuilding but will come with a game plan that will entertain while winning. The base is there all that needs to be done is a plan since we havent had one for 4 long years. He must also be willing to take risks with new talent which might come his way in the next 4 years.
9 Oct 2011, 11:15 am
@bokke_bo(bokke_bo)-132:
Aha!
9 Oct 2011, 11:15 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-128:
Still not convinced he’s what the Boks need, especially not after the racial thing. If he wants to play for the Springboks, as a Zimbabwean, he should come play in South Africa.
9 Oct 2011, 11:16 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-138:
There are always two sides to a story mate. Never always believe what is said in the tabloids. A lot of infighting and power struggles in this Bok side that many don’t know about. Nothing really different.
9 Oct 2011, 11:17 am
Well done Ozzies. A cracker next week as well. I will be backing the Kiwis for sure. If any team deserves the trophy let it be them.
9 Oct 2011, 11:17 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-123:cj is sshit…ask the Stormers they let him go and kept Brok
9 Oct 2011, 11:18 am
yes yes yes yessssssssssssss
9 Oct 2011, 11:18 am
@XV(XV)-133: every sunday during world cup, today its on at 17:00 on DSTV channel 201. not sure who the guests will be tonight but last week it was Heineke Mayer, John Mitchell, Allister Coetzee and Garth Wright. Brilliant viewing. Real experts who know what they are talking about
9 Oct 2011, 11:19 am
And herein lies the problem with PDV – he did not have a backbone. When John Smit, retiring from international rugby this evening, was asked to say a few words about PDV’s resignation, Smit said:
“We’ve had a really good four years together. That’s been pioneered by Peter,” he said. “Even the bad days are good
“He has given us leeway and space and tightened that space when we took advantage of it.
The players, especially the senior ones, were given far too much power and say.
We need a strong coach who in no uncertain terms is the boss. There must be no sense of entitlement amongst the players going forward.
Clear out the old guard, bring in a new coach with clear ideas (and the backbone to stick with them) and a strong sense of being the boss.
9 Oct 2011, 11:19 am
I think PdV is right… We do have a bright future.. But we should learn from the mistakes he made… He didn’t plan sufficiently for the future. Every game we played we set records for most caps, but we did not have enough attacking flair to score tries against good defenses. This is an article I wrote for a student website…
http://studentheartbeat.com/2011/10/09/where-to-now-for-the-springboks/
9 Oct 2011, 11:19 am
@bokke_bo(bokke_bo)-143: I am UK based…..will check on youtube…..
9 Oct 2011, 11:20 am
i dont think we will ever have another white coach which is racist but anyway
let the best man get the job
9 Oct 2011, 11:21 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-144:
Yeah – entitlement has caused much damage to us as supporters. We deserve to have the best starting week in and out.
9 Oct 2011, 11:23 am
So who will get the job? I can’t be bothered to reminisce on PdV’s tenure. Just very glad it’s over. Let’s look to the future. So who will it be?
9 Oct 2011, 11:25 am
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-149: It isn’t what I agree with, but it will most likely be Coetsee.
.
9 Oct 2011, 11:26 am
@Ngqawa(Ngqawa)-136:
At this stage, before S15 form etc. I’m hoping for a Bok squad resembling this.
1 Beast Mtawarira
2 Bismarck du Plessis
3 Jannie du Plessis
4 Flip van der Merwe (but unsure…. what else can we do?)
5 Andries Bekker
6 Heinrich Brussow
7 Juan Smith
8 Schalk Burger
9 Ruan Pienaar (I know what people think, but my opinion, with the right coaching, he’s the man to help Hougaard become the scrumhalf we need)
10 Morne Steyn
11 Bryan Habana
12 Francois Steyn
13 Jaque Fourie
14 JP Pietersen
15 Patrick Lambie
16 Chilliboy Ralepelle
17 Coenie Oosthuizen
18 ? Not sure ? Juandre Kruger maybe?
19 Willem Alberts
20 Francois Hougaard
21 Johan Goosen
22 Juan de Jongh
And I would also include CJ van der Linde, Nick Koster, Johann Sadie & Jean de Villiers.
The only guys remaining in SA that I wouldn’t include (that were part of the World Cup squad) would be Pierre Spies & Butch James. In Butch’s case it comes down to him saying he’s retiring soon rather then what he could add to the team.
9 Oct 2011, 11:26 am
hopefully meyer with the stormers coaches
9 Oct 2011, 11:26 am
As Bok supporters we are sad to have been sent home today. Next week two more teams will be sad and then there will only be one happy team. Why they even play the 3rd and 4th place games is beyond me.
9 Oct 2011, 11:26 am
John Smit shot himself in the foot. He will never be forgiven.
Anyway, things can only improve without those coaches, tits being shown the door, young talents in Lambie and Hougaard coming good along with the loose trio of Burger, Smith and Brussow.
Money isn’t an issue. Don’t settle with an average coach. Eddie or Mitchell as assistants.
9 Oct 2011, 11:26 am
i heared Alan Zondagh might be the next coach …. between 4 :
B Venter
A Coetzee/Rassie combo
Alan Zondagh (favourite)
Eric Sauls…
9 Oct 2011, 11:26 am
PDV has not been the best, but he got his bok team to peak for this game. pity they just could not close it out against a committed and full strength aussie outfit. boks can hold their heads high despite what some very upset people are saying in the heat of disappointment.
9 Oct 2011, 11:26 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-151:
My opinion on Johann Sadie – he should play on the wing.
9 Oct 2011, 11:27 am
Jon Smit Will continue to coach the boks, just not in a player/coach role anymore.
9 Oct 2011, 11:28 am
to be honest hendrikp
drop habana time for him to hang up the boots
bring in deysel bring in vermulen drop spies
other wise i agree with your side
9 Oct 2011, 11:28 am
@Boks_B_to_win_RWC_2011(p0ppa69)-155:
Eric Sauls? Now I know you’re full of s**t.
9 Oct 2011, 11:29 am
who the hell is Alan Zondagh ?
i heard zuma wants malema as next bok coach
9 Oct 2011, 11:30 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-150: AC will just be more of the same imo. Or maybe who get’s the headcoach job isn’t the real problem. Maybe the ones we should be worried about is his asst’s. A good backline/attacking coach is non-negotiable I think.
9 Oct 2011, 11:30 am
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-158:
Please NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. He was selfish not to step down with Ricky. Selfish indeed. Don’t come with the great he did. He will be remembered for the harm he caused. Not a great way to be remembered. But it counts for nothing now and most said we would lose in the quarters and we did. Whether by two points or ten we lost. Let’s look to the future now…
9 Oct 2011, 11:30 am
@klippies101(klippies101)-159:
Deysel is another dinosaur. We don’t need a loose-forward who only knows how to put his head down.
And Vermeulen is so injury prone, and not quite up there with some of the other in my opinion. He wouldn’t let the Boks down, but we have so many talented loose-forwards, that I would put him a little down the list.
9 Oct 2011, 11:31 am
Well played Boks
9 Oct 2011, 11:32 am
Has D*ck Muir resigned too.
Please.
9 Oct 2011, 11:32 am
@klippies101(klippies101)-161:
Alan Zondagh coaches WP before Alan Solomons.
I wouldn’t mind him as a backline coach, but he’s far too much about unstructured rugby to be successful. He’s been out of coaching a professional side for far too long to be able to take the Boks forward.
9 Oct 2011, 11:32 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-164:
Injury prone??? He played the whole super 15 and was played into the ground. The best 8 in SA for sure.
9 Oct 2011, 11:33 am
i always felt sorry for j botes never making the boks
9 Oct 2011, 11:34 am
John Mitchell or Eddie Jones as assistants.
9 Oct 2011, 11:34 am
@klippies101(klippies101)-169:
There were much better players who didn’t make the side and much worse that did. Greyling, Kruger to mention two lucky buggers…they are putrid yet have Bok jersey’s are reward for mediocrity
9 Oct 2011, 11:35 am
@klippies101(klippies101)-159:
Also on Habana. He’s still a young guy. He was good again against Australia tonight I think. Looked dangerous when he got a bit of ball, which is all he needs.
Ideally I’d keep him in the squad until someone demands a spot. I sure as hell wouldn’t drop him for Mvovo, Basson etc.
Bryan Habana would start in the 11 jersey, and if Johann Sadie plays like I think he would in the position, I’d then hand it over to him.
9 Oct 2011, 11:36 am
Anyway, I must go. For me, if only a South African is to get the job, we need a new broom to sweep things clear.
My vote goes to Brendan Venter. Innovative, creative and not afriad to say it as it is. Director of rugby at Saracens who this year won the English Premiership for the first time in their history.
9 Oct 2011, 11:36 am
john would be a great coaching option for the boks he did well with the all blacks
and wasnt bad with the force
9 Oct 2011, 11:36 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-172:
11 and 14 are always going to be affirmative action positions… Sadie will have to play centre.
9 Oct 2011, 11:37 am
Otherwise I am not averse to the idea of a foreign coach.
If Australia can swallow their pride and employ a Kiwi coach, so can we.
But that coach must have an impeccable record of winning trophies to be considered.
9 Oct 2011, 11:38 am
It was so obvious the Boks were in trouble. How many times did I complain about Spies, Roussouw and Smit starting. Spies the p-ussy got man handled and failed to impose himself at all. Roussouw was lazy and gave away the last penalty and Smit was exhausted after 10 minutes and failed to stop whorewill from scoring. du Plessis would have latched on to the ball and driven that re-tard back.
Well done PdV. I hope I never hear or see you again, crawl back to the illegal shack under the highway which you came from.
9 Oct 2011, 11:39 am
it has to be mitchell there is no one else wo can compare,inside knowledge about australians having coached the force and all blacks having coached them before and proven he can get the best out of south africans with the lions.
It has to be him.
9 Oct 2011, 11:39 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-168:
Better 8′s: Schalk Burger if he played there. Willem Alberts if he played there (I do think he’s a 7 though). Nick Koster with a bit more experience.
I like Vermeulen, but he’s too slow for test rugby in my opinion. I just can’t see him there.
Burger is the man to fill the 8 jersey at the moment, and I think Koster brings rare athletic ability, which would make him a HUGE threat at the back of the scrum, and allow us to play a much more expansive game.
IMO Vermeulen should be playing at 7 if he ever wants to make a push for the Springboks. He’s a strong ball-carrier and taller which fits that position. I prefer my 8′s to be more elusive.
9 Oct 2011, 11:39 am
There’s no denying PDV has had his stuff ups and acted like an all round douche at times. But the amount of hypocrisy and general idiocy on this site directed towards him from the beginning has been down right embarrassing and only served to further reinforce the view of how precious our supporters can be. When PDV first took over he copped flak because apparently he was going to change the way the Boks play,using a more expansive, attractive game, so what did he do? He kept things the same: played the same way, selected the same players. Great right? Wrong he got accused of not moving the boks forward enough. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. My favourite line is “he wrecked everything Jake White built” hilarious, Jake was no master coach and I have no doubt if Jake was still in charge Smit would still be captain and Bismark would still be warming the bench just like today.
Now watch the next coach use the same out dated crash ball tactics, game after game and the same results. Nothing will change until we start playing smart rugby and stop playing bash ‘em up amateur ****. Coaching the boks is a poisoned chalice, from the moment you step in that hotseat, there’s about a million rugby fans who think they can do your job better than you.
And can we never mention Eddies Jones and “Bok coach” in the same sentence again? Thank you. Nothing against foreigners in fact I wouldn’t mind Mitchell but please I would even take Rudolf before Eddie (god forbid it ever come to that).
9 Oct 2011, 11:40 am
Unlucky Pieter, well done.
9 Oct 2011, 11:41 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-176: I’d get Ian McGeechan if he is still up for it.
9 Oct 2011, 11:41 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-175:
We are past that I think, especially with players like Beast Mtawarira, Chilliboy Ralepelle, Ashley Johnson & Juan de Jongh looking like they’ll play a big part in future sides.
If Sadie makes a success of the position, no one will complain. It’s only if he struggles that attention will be drawn to it.
9 Oct 2011, 11:41 am
@151. hendrikp
I agree with your team except on Ruan Pienaar. I’d still keep Guthro. Habana must go. I forsee a bright future for us if we get the right coaching combination.
9 Oct 2011, 11:41 am
And final thoughts:
1. Every game must matter for the Boks (not “Judge me on the World Cup”)
2. We need to add smart to our brawn. Too many times I’ve heard “you know what you get with SA.”
3. The new coach needs a performance clause in his contract.
4. We must not settle for second best when it comes to appointing a new coach – only proven winners, and if there aren’t any in SA, then look overseas.
9 Oct 2011, 11:45 am
@Ngqawa(Ngqawa)-184:
Hougaard is a brilliant player, but at this stage still an average scrumhalf. I’d like to see Ruan Pienaar in the 9 jersey until Hougaard becomes more structured, until he improves his decision making at the base. I predict that if he were given the 9 jersey, it wouldn’t be long before people call for him to be axed.
I’d also look at keeping Gurthro, but it will be hard considering he’s no longer playing in SA. Coenie Oosthuizen can’t be ignored much longer, so he’d have to push Beast out I think.
And Habana still has value. If you forget about the loss, Habana actually did well.
9 Oct 2011, 11:45 am
Goodbye Pete.
For what it’s worth,
you gave rugby some honesty that is not likely to be repeated.
i will miss You.
cane.
9 Oct 2011, 11:46 am
@Steel Shark(Steel Shark)-180:
Eddie would make a great assistant coach. He single-handedly made the Boks backline the best in the world in 07.
9 Oct 2011, 11:46 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-183:
Not at all! Look at all the wings in Currie Cup now. Sithole, Mvovo, Aplon, Habanna, Ndugane’s etc. It is fact mate.
9 Oct 2011, 11:47 am
Jeepers i just said on the other thread i dont think we will get another coach and then i see this. Shame i dont blame him for i loss today. Rather the 2 who caused a stupid penalty and lost us our lead.
9 Oct 2011, 11:47 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-185:
Post of the thread so far.
#1 is the point that needs to be inputed into the team and its fans, will some fans anyway.
RWC is not the be all and end all. PDV should have been judges on allk games in the first 2 years, not a 6 week knockout tournament
Pride in that jersey is a must and winning all games brings it.
Good post Wooden
9 Oct 2011, 11:48 am
@cane(cane)-187:
Yeah if he coached the AB’s I would have also liked him.
9 Oct 2011, 11:48 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-186:
Sarel as the 9. Pienaar is a no no.
9 Oct 2011, 11:49 am
@cane(cane)-187:
Good man.
May not have been the best coach to take us forward, but I believe there was plenty to admire about the man himself, and how he handled a lot of the situations.
A true gentleman. All the best Peter. Unlike Straueli he is also willing to go quietly, and with his respect intact.
May the next Springbok coach have similar qualities… and the courage to say it like he sees it.
9 Oct 2011, 11:49 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-191:
Exactly what I have being saying. A test match is a test match. You play to win.
9 Oct 2011, 11:50 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-188:
The Boks had the best backline in 2007?
Nope, they did not.
9 Oct 2011, 11:50 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-193:
I keep hearing this, but Pienaar has had what opportunities? He was Player of the Year at Ulster.
Sarel Pretorius is nowhere near Springbok quality. To miss the most tackles of any player in Super Rugby is embarrassing.
9 Oct 2011, 11:51 am
The Bok side should be
15. Lambie
14. Jp (Until a special player is found)
13. Fourie
12. Steyn
11. Hougaard
10. Steyn
9. Sarel
8. Burger
7. Smith
6. Brussow
5. Bekker
4. Alberts
3. Jannie
2. Battleship (finally)
1. Beast
Eddie or Mitchell as coach/assistant coach.
9 Oct 2011, 11:52 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-189:
Springbok rugby is another story. Jean de Villiers played many games for the Boks on the wing sort of recently. Before that players like Pieter Rossouw, Dean Hall etc. were about.
9 Oct 2011, 11:53 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-188:
He also lost 7 matches in a row with the Aussies and has the lowest winning % of any Oz coach. Again we need to stop comparing everything to 07, we hit some form and got a bit of luck with the draw. Jake White is not the greatest coach ever because he won the world cup and nor is Eddie Jones the greatest technical advisor (or whatever he was back then).
9 Oct 2011, 11:53 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-197:
Pienaar is useless. There are better 9′s around. Divenhage, Pretorius, etc.
9 Oct 2011, 11:53 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-196:
Yeah, they did. They were slicing every side in the 2007 world cup so much so that Butch was being touted as the best 10 in the world. Majority of Bok backline tries came from set piece, which shows.
9 Oct 2011, 11:54 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-198:
Sarel is no Springbok. He won’t last long at the Waratahs either, not with that defense.
Also, Alberts is not a lock. He won’t play there for the Sharks. He’s not a line-out jumper at the front at this stage.
If he plays the entire season there for the Sharks, I would like to see what he can do, but I doubt they’d waste him at lock, when he’s easily one of the best blindsides in world rugby.
9 Oct 2011, 11:55 am
@Steel Shark(Steel Shark)-200:
Ja, what talent was Eddie working with in Australia? Not much.
9 Oct 2011, 11:56 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-202:
lol, ok whatever you think.
9 Oct 2011, 11:56 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-201:
I’m not even going to bother with this. People with an agenda. Willing to throw aside talented players.
Ruan Pienaar played behind a terrible side in Australasia, and stats wise was still up there. He missed no tackles etc, and considering the ball he was getting you can’t criticize his work behinds the rucks.
The only form he can fairly be judged on is for Ulster.
Outside of that I see an amazingly talented player, and if a smart coach comes in, he’ll be the Springboks starting 9 next year.
But yes Duvenage is a much better scrumhalf then Pretorius. Jano Vermaak is also better… heck even give me Charl McLeod.
9 Oct 2011, 11:57 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-185:
You make good points but i am afraid a lot of South Africans have a World Cups or nothing attitude. Look at all the flak our cricket team gets (they have lost only 1 series in over 5 years), but yet they are judged only at these tournaments
9 Oct 2011, 11:57 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-203:
He’d fill in Botha’s role. He played lock at the Lions and some at this world cup with success. Rather him play there than be wasted on the bench because he won’t start ahead of Brussow, Burger or Smith.
9 Oct 2011, 11:57 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-205:
lol, at least I do think.
9 Oct 2011, 11:57 am
Is it coincidental that 3 of the 4 teams through to the world cup are coached by New Zealanders? Makes you think, does it not?
9 Oct 2011, 11:58 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-205:
He’s got a point about tries from set-pieces. The Boks backline was on fire in the 2007 World Cup.
I wouldn’t have called it best in the world, but we were very dangerous back then.
9 Oct 2011, 12:00 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-206: So you don’t think Ruan is a bit soft in the head? Apart from that alot of times I get the feeling he is just going thru the motions outhere. Almost like his heart is not in it. Just my opinion and for that I will not pick him in a Bokside. Not until he shows that same form he had for the Sharks 4-5 years back.
9 Oct 2011, 12:00 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-206:
I have no agenda at all. Pienaar is slow, runs sideways before he passes and gets caught because he is so slow. All you do is get under his chin and he sulks and the game goes from bad to worse.
9 Oct 2011, 12:01 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-211:
The Boks backline was the best. The Wallabies had a young Barnes at 10 and Giteau/old Gregan at 9 and the All Blacks were playing unstructured basketball rugby.
9 Oct 2011, 12:02 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-213:
Agree. He had potential but PIenaar at 9 is a no no. His box kicks (which he does more than du Preez) always go 20 meters too far.
9 Oct 2011, 12:02 pm
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-209:
You think after you posts most times which does not count.
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-211:
I think what Jones bought to the mix was to make the Boks flow better,
There was no doubt the Boks forward in 2007 were up there amongst the best, if not the best forward pack. But the backline was struggling, they were lost once they recieved the ball.
Look against teams like Fiji,Tonga and USA your backline should look good, trying not to take anything from the Boks at all. But the best backline in the world, is still a big no
9 Oct 2011, 12:05 pm
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-214:
Well that unstructured basketball rugby beat you guys in 2007 and 2008 a number of times..
But anyway lets move on, this is RWC 2011
9 Oct 2011, 12:09 pm
EOYT team
15 F. Steyn
14 Basson
13 JF
12 De Jongh
11 JPP
10 Lambie
9 F. Hougard
8 Alberts/ Duane
7 Brussouw
6 Schalk/ Alberts
5 Bekker
4.J. Kruger
3. Jannie
2. Bissy
1. Coenie
Bench:
Beast
Chilliboy
Flo
Spies
Ebersohn
Sadie
Ruan
Would still like to see Elton, Ebersohn x2 , J Fourie, J Smith and Habnna in the mix helping youngsters out.
9 Oct 2011, 12:12 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-216:
Boks don’t play the sort of rugby to ever be the most dangerous backline. They run different lines, don’t force passes as often (which come off the All Blacks often)… and they don’t use as many decoy runners.
Instead we use slightly bigger runners who try hold the ball up.
For the Springbok backline to progress from here, I think we need to invest in Francois Steyn & Jaque Fourie as a midfield combination. They both run hard at the line, and Francois Steyn holding the ball up well for potential offloads etc. could be a big weapon.
9 Oct 2011, 12:13 pm
@liefling(liefling)-218:
Are they having an EOYT this year?
9 Oct 2011, 12:14 pm
End of PdV .. some light in the darkness after all
Ruan is totally useless. I hope he never touches another bok jersey. Every time he is on field, he messes up whatever strategy we have.
PdV is solely responsible for todays loss … his consistent choice of out-of form players when in-form are available, mixed with his mixing of positions over time which weakened players progress.
Well defended Aus.
And now to all those ‘EXPERTS’ who were bitching and moaning when I said Frans Steyn is what SA need back when there was problems with Frans and PdV returning, and saying we don’t need him. I hope you are satisfied. Idiots. There is no doubt Frans on field today would have yielded a totally different result. Not just with his long distance howitzer, but also the intimidating presence he has which would likely have forced Aus to play a little different – and likely open a few more holes.
9 Oct 2011, 12:19 pm
@TheBoksAreBack(bringbacktheboks)-221: Tbh, I think you are jumping up and down over nothing at all. PdV’s out of form players did realy well today. They dominated a large part of this match and only finishing let them down in the end. As for FS…he would’ve played today if he was fully fit. At 12. Or is this meant to be a ‘I told you so’?
9 Oct 2011, 12:22 pm
Who’ll be the next coach?
9 Oct 2011, 12:23 pm
I wouldnt mind John Mitchell for coach and schalkie for captain, Mitchell has really done well and transformed the Lions.
RL will tear his hair our if the Lions lose Mitchell to the boks lol.
9 Oct 2011, 12:24 pm
even better I hope we never see Muir & Gold again.
9 Oct 2011, 12:25 pm
“De Villiers ends his career with a 63% success rate, winning 30 of his 48 Tests. However, measured against the best in the world he has struggled. With the defeat in Wellington this evening his record against Australia dipped to four wins from 12, while he has won just five from 11 against the All Blacks.”
How does he compare against the Bok coaches before him? If you measure any international coach against Henry (the best in the world) he will come up short.
33% average winning percentage against Aus is kak.
5 wins out of 11 against the All Blacks is a great return if you keep in mind that the AB’s played an extra match at home. Don’t know how you can say “just five from eleven” I’d venture that that is the best record by any coach against the AB’s under Henry and maybe even in history..
9 Oct 2011, 12:26 pm
Let the planning for the next WC begin. First job, we need a coach who is a player manager, and who recognises the type of specialists he needs beside him from the beginning.
Next step is to clean out the team a little bit, and start Lambie at 10.
9 Oct 2011, 12:32 pm
Mitchell should take over as bok coach on an 8 year basis, boks need a more balanced approach to the game, huge emphasis on skills development.
9 Oct 2011, 12:33 pm
If you don’t pick players on form, you get results like this. There were allot more dubious inclusions in this team than Smit. Fourie Du Preez was shocking all WC, Pierre Spies has been a non-factor since the last WC. Habana has lost his mojo when he left Pretoria.
I, for one, am glad to see the end of Smit, Matfiel, Bakkies, Butch and Divvie. There are way to much talent in this country to be reserving jerseys for some.
Let’s look ahead four years from now. Give this team to any reputable coach and he’ll come home with the trophee.
15. Lambie (24), 14.JPP (29), 13. De Jongh (27), 12. F. Steyn (28), 11. Mvovu (29), 10. Goosen (23), 9. Hougaard (27), 8. Alberts (31), 7. Burger(32), 6. Brussouw (29), 5. Bekker(32), 4. Deysel (30), 3 Du Plessis (33), 2. Du Plessis (31), 1. Beast(30)
9 Oct 2011, 12:38 pm
“Peter de Villiers has quit after coaching the Springboks to a World Cup quarter-final defeat in Wellington.
De Villiers’ contract has expired…”
How can you quit if your contract has expired?
9 Oct 2011, 12:45 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-223:
Well, Rassie and Nienaber are there already. They only need to bring in AC.
9 Oct 2011, 12:46 pm
@nama1(nama1)-226: I agree, that is a good succes rate against the all blacks, but id give the credit to the team rather than to PDV. Hes a shocking coach, never adapted after 2009. He only started picking Brussom after Heinrik was so bloody good he couldnt ignore him. Yip and Frans Steyn would have made a big difference, but the seeds of this world cup wer sewn when hoskings met De Villiers – the Boks were doomed.
9 Oct 2011, 12:46 pm
ABs must win World Cup to save the game
STEPHEN JONES Last updated 05:00 07/10/2011
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PETER MEECHAM/Fairfax Media
RIGHT EXAMPLE: The All Blacks are playing the right kind of rugby.
Rugby Live blog commentary – Bok vs Wallabies Flashy ego given boot as Beale comes of age Captain Richie McCaw just grins and bears it Well-behaved Wellington for Welsh win ABs enforcer Kaino to set mongrel on Pumas France march on after English roasting Relentless Wales send Ireland packing ABs to make Muliaina’s milestone memorable Argentine captain ready for ‘gift’ All Blacks clash
OPINION: “New Zealand have to win this World Cup for the sake of rugby.” A quote. And which numbskull wrote it and believes it? Which pompous Kiwi who cannot see beyond the end of his nose? Well actually, I wrote it. Me. I wrote it just then, and I believe it.
Naturally, most people who are not New Zealanders can think of around 45 reasons why they don’t want New Zealand to win. I can think of a few myself, as I have said before. Important ones.
But if the game itself is going to evolve in the next five years into something worth watching, worth playing, and something that is safe to play, then to my mind only New Zealand (and possibly Wales) come close to setting the right example.
One of the basic joys of rugby used to lie in the old truth that the forwards won the ball and the backs did something with it, and the greatest, most artistic, most precious and most memorable moments in most of rugby history have been those when backs were pitted against backs – and tried to outwit each other with sleight of hand and foot, angles, dummies, length of pass, sidesteps, swerves, outside breaks, clever offloads, chip-and-chases, whatever. The best thing about it was that the forwards were not needed till they were called upon to win first-phase ball again.
Yes, I know this was all years ago. I am not for a moment going back on my conviction that the scrum, tight forward play and the forward confrontation itself is all important, simply because when you strong-arm people out of the way, it gives space for your backs
And I am not for a moment retracting a word of my criticism of the nonsense early years of Super Rugby when they mistook action for spectacle, mistook movement for real rugby, mistook tries for satisfaction. That was a different sport and it cost New Zealand at least two World Cups because they were suckered into playing like that.
My liking for the All Blacks’ style of play is based on the contrast they often provide with what rugby has become. Yes, in modern rugby the ball is in play for long periods. But it consists largely of brute-like charges by players with their heads down, backs and forwards. It involves a physical crunch and a contest for possession with players being battered all over the place. It involves a stationary ball at the back of a ruck, while we all twiddle our thumbs.
And all this in the name of creating good ball. The problem is that sometimes, creating good ball takes around 30 minutes of bashing and crashing; before coaches will give the mental green light for the team to go wide with the ball.
One of the parrot sayings of top coaches these days is ”earn the right to go wide.” And in this World Cup, all the teams bar New Zealand and Wales have spent around 79 minutes and 50 seconds earning the eight to go wide, and about 10 seconds actually going it. Bash, bash, bash.
Sometimes, New Zealand don’t bother earning the right. Even at key times in key games, they simply shovel bad ball along the line, behind the advantage line, as quick as they can. That isolates the likes of Ma’a Nonu, Sonny Bill Williams, Richard Kahui, Israel Dagg and the wings against the opposition backs. No forwards in the way, no head-down bashing by the front five, just us against you like the old days. The All Black backs performing, with the angles, sharpness, the rock-solid quality of their basics and their rugby decision-making.
Just for one example – France were taken apart behind the scrum with quality Black back play, sometimes from first phase, sometimes from ball that was not charged with electricity. New Zealand backed their skills, and they could easily have scored 50
Wales may not have the all-round capability and endurance of New Zealand yet though they are getting there – and against Fiji, they did not bother too much with earning any rights. They just shifted the ball to Jamie Roberts and the outside men and took Fiji to the cleaners.
We should have nothing against forwards, bless them. We know how fit and fast they are these days. They can run and handle like backs – except they cannot do it as well.
It might sound simplistic. But maybe simplicity is what is needed. Maybe people will come to watch if skills make a comeback, maybe parents will bring down their kids if they see a game with less head-down, eyes-closed battering.
One of the reasons why New Zealand remain (very narrowly) favourites to take the title, even in the absence of Mr Cater and with Mr McCaw hobbling around the place, is that they did not suffer from agoraphobia; they back themselves, out wide, and often without endless boring preparatory phases.
They are good, and they look good. Good on them.
9 Oct 2011, 12:50 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-222: They played well, but would have played better if they had played many more games in correct positions. And why only put Bismark and Hougard on when game is almost over.
Yes, my comment re FS was ‘i told you we needed him’. He is the X-factor and most certainly would have made the difference today.
9 Oct 2011, 12:50 pm
@nama1(nama1)-231: unfortunately, that’ll not ensure that bok rugby develops, the stormers can’t score tries, there’s such an enormous focus on defense that WP’s traditional flair has left. Rassie under Mitchell is one thing but to have Rassie and AC together will be continuing with the status quo.
9 Oct 2011, 12:53 pm
Fortunately heyneke Meyer is still with the bulls, as he’d be automatic then one would have four years of bulls rugby!
9 Oct 2011, 12:53 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-233: Yet they survived today by the boot. Jeering and cat calls turned to cheers as the boot saved AB’s.
9 Oct 2011, 12:56 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-233: it’s idealistic and it’s hogwash.
9 Oct 2011, 12:57 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-233:
Great article, thaks.
It must be sent to every coach in the world.Starting from junior level to top. Rugby like any sport, it’s primary role is to entertain. Full stop. All Blacks epitomises that. They are the only hope as an example of growing rugby. Fortunately the influence of coaches from New Zealand is growing.
9 Oct 2011, 12:58 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-224:
Leave my Mitch where he is … I would say take Plum but I enjoy the fact that a sub-standard coach is at the guppies, so keep him there.
9 Oct 2011, 13:01 pm
Firstly, I think the new coach should only be given a 2 year contract with defined success targets and a 2 year renewable clause.
It has been nice to only have 2 coaches over the last 8 years, but the what I disagree with is the emphasis on 4 year world cup cycles.
Why must we put up with 2 or 3 years of utter hogwash results in a 4 year cycle?
Both White and De Villiers served up a couple of years of hogwash results mixed in with some success.
The focus MUST be on winning EVERY game and clawing back our rapidly diminishing returns against the big boys, Australia and NZ.
9 Oct 2011, 13:05 pm
@coma(coma)-229:
You must be sick in your head.
Lambie
JPP
de Jongh
Mvovo
Burger
Kannie dup
Beast
Deysel
You must be a guppy ffs
9 Oct 2011, 13:07 pm
@ufo(ufo)-58:
Schalk as captain and we will have the same situation in 2015 where you captain does not necessarily is an automatic choice.
Make Heinrich Brussow captain.
@NZMaori(NZMaori)-232:
In 2009 he had a choice between Schalk and Brussow at 6. Spies and Juan Smith were certainties at 8 and 7 respectively… in the minds of 95% of Bok supporters.
Would YOU have dropped Schalk to make way for Brussow back then?
9 Oct 2011, 13:07 pm
@RL(RL)-242: all the Sharks players mentioned there are better than any of their Cuddly Kitten counterparts.
9 Oct 2011, 13:09 pm
@nama1(nama1)-243: Has Brussow ever captained a team before? How much does he talk in the changeroom or on the field? How do the other players see him as a leader?
A lot more goes into making a captain than simply picking a name. Bismark for example would never make a captain even though now with the recent retirements he is the first name on the teamsheet.
9 Oct 2011, 13:11 pm
@nama1(nama1)-243:
If he doesn’t deserve to be captain anymore by that stage, then he’ll be replaced. We need to forget about 4-year cycles, and try win every game.
Schalk is the best man for the job right now. Right now is what matters.
Apparently Heyneke Meyer is changing the way the Bulls play. He wants them to play more expansively which is why he’s brought in a few of the players he has.
Still though, I don’t want him near the Springboks. If it wasn’t for Derick Hougaard he’d have been retired 8 years ago. Credit to him for making the Bulls what they are, but that’s not what I want for the Springboks.
9 Oct 2011, 13:15 pm
@RL(RL)-242: Don’t worry buddy, all the Lions Springboks should be availalbe for the CC playoffs,
9 Oct 2011, 13:16 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-241:
You will recall the madness started with Jake White when he insisted that what matters is world cup and unfortunately all bought that nonsense. We lost to all and sundry and to our fortune/misfortune we won the world cup by defeating England only in 2007. Then everyone, including many in this site fell for that trap.
The problem with South African rugby is the mindset. We inculcate, at the earliest stage, this braun driven rugby. I know because my boy is at a boarding school in Grahamstown. He plays under 14 and is pestering me to pay his gym fees and my response is ” you are too young for that. His rugby coach is encouraging him to do that. No skills are choached at all but the DONKEY RUGBY. So we as a rugby nation we need a mindset overhaul.
Funilly enough we played beautifull rugby not so long ago. And then Jake started/punted the donkey rugby. Don’t you miss the Dup brothers and Danie Gerber way of rugby?
9 Oct 2011, 13:17 pm
Something to ponder over while you make yourself believe that the springbok has unified the country
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/09/cape-town-tutu-racial-inequality
PDV will look back and understand that he was naieve to believe that he could change anything with his almost all white bok team. I will like to meet him personally and laugh at him for ever thinking he could reach into the hearts of the Nazi scum
9 Oct 2011, 13:18 pm
@nama1(nama1)-243:
Brussow was originally excluded from the Springbok squad in 2009, until he had an amazing game against the B&I Lions, and heaps of pressure was put on to select him.
I’d have asked for Burger to go to 8.
9 Oct 2011, 13:18 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-235:
Agree with that.
They are not the right people, Rassie especially. At the beginning of the year a lot of bloggers on this site asked for the next coach to be roped in so that he can learn to know the players who will still be there leading up to 2015. Maybe SARU heard the call and obliged hence Rassie and Nienaber in the mix during the WC.
I guess afa SA coaches go, there are probably only Rassie, AC and Meyer with a realistic chance of being appointed as head coach.
At the end of it all, it will be a case of the better of three evils. Not one of them inspire confidence as head coach.
If we are going to look overseas, I think we can do a lot worse than getting Warren Gatland here. What he has done with Wales is really great.
9 Oct 2011, 13:24 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-244:
Let’s see now, you choose guppies and ignore better players from other teams, typical windgat sharkievarkie.
Lambie, slow coach himself is a little fly compared to Taute
JPP is a has been and should be dropped for JJ Engelbrecht
Mvovo ahead of Mapoe, yeah
Deysel plays one match at lock and sharkievarkie coma picks him as the next Bok lock.
Beast is no Guthro and Coenie owns him.
So go ahead sharkievarkies, pick your chokers for Bok duty.
9 Oct 2011, 13:24 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-248: I want Carel Dup as backline coach! Just make sure Nienaber stays close. If not him, then the Cheetah one (Hawies?). Someone who knows what it means to run into space at different angles and can teach that to our players.
9 Oct 2011, 13:27 pm
@coma(coma)-229: Good team
and if this lot would have realized you cannot take a team for 8 years running (yes almost entire front 5 were from Streauli’s era – Smit, CJ, Matfield, Botha, Burger, Smith – before Jake) and expect them to win a WC twice in a row..
NZ tried it in 91, Aussie tried it in 95, England tried it in 2007, SA tried it in 2011.. – Its a sure recipe for failure.. but they still tried it against far better judgment of starting new talents when they are fresh.. not after they have staled out on the bench or out the reckoning altogether….
9 Oct 2011, 13:29 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-254: good team, since when is Deysel a lock, and JPP is finished, no winger over the age of 25 should play test rugby … they too slow.
9 Oct 2011, 13:30 pm
People knowledgeble in rugby will tell you that a coach selects his captain first and then his team. Schalk is over 30 yrs old. He is over the hill. Look at Wales with their young captain. Nobody questions his captaincy at all. We went into the world cup knowing very well that Smit is not the best and clouded the whole issue. Rugby as a team sport is about thrust in your team mate and I can assure you that when the biographies come out the truth will come out as far as distrust in John is concerned.
You have got to look at the All Blacks, if there is any semblance of doubt in the captain, he gets dropped end of story. No two ways about it. Look at Ruben Thorn. Our journalists are as useless. You have got to watch supersport to believe the length they go justifying John’s captaincy.
9 Oct 2011, 13:30 pm
@nama1(nama1)-251: Gatland is locked in. I could live with HM as head coach. As long as we get a decent backline coach. His legacy at the Bulls may be what the Boks and we as supporters need. Hopefully not the timeframe he achieved it though.
9 Oct 2011, 13:30 pm
It is a highly debatable claim and certainly the refs went out of their way to try to get Australia over the line in 2003. But you would not rule out this Rugby World Cup being decided on a shonky decision.
Mr Bryce Lawrence, the son of an official, is rated rather highly by those in charge of the whistle blowers. But a lot of players and fans have absolutely no idea why. He made a complete hash of today’s game between Australia and South Africa and the Springboks will be furious.
They identified the breakdown as a crucial area of the match beforehand, but they did expect there to be some sort of reffing.
The South Africans thought that the tackler would have to release the ball carrier. They thought that the offside line would be respected. They thought that men would have to stay on the feet. Instead it was a complete shambles.
The trouble is that Lawrence has form at this sort of thing. He was given the final of Super Rugby for apparently being the best ref in the tournament.
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Some of us thought that the South African refs were in an altogether different class. They would also have had the advantage of being neutral as the final was between an Aussie and a Kiwi side. But no, Mr Lawrence got the nod.
And despite all the fantastic players on the pitch, the match became a farce because Lawrence had absolutely no control over the breakdown. Players were diving in on all sides. It became a free-for-all.
What could have been a great game of rugby turned into a mess, because Lawrence did not rule the breakdown.
So should we be surprised at today’s snore. More often than not dull matches are greatly contributed to by the refs inability to be accurate at the contact area. Yes, South Africa are nothing like as efficient there without the great Juan Smith to clean out.
But unless the IRB’s refs get a grip we are going to have some really dull semi-finals. Hopefully the guys who can really get a grip at the breakdown – the South Africans and the Northern Hemisphere refs – will be put in charge of the final four matches.
If we let a Kiwi near the games, then it will be more mayhem. South Africa will feel cheated. And they have every right to complain.
The Aussies have already made one New Zealand ref – Steve Walsh – one of their own. Lawrence could well be next in line for honorary citizenship.
9 Oct 2011, 13:34 pm
@JL1(JL1)-258: C’mon mate. Give it up. The result stands… it’s over. Nothing we say or do will change that. The dream is over. Time to look forward. We get a new coach with, hopefully a fresh outlook.
9 Oct 2011, 13:35 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-241:
Did not PdV entered into a two year contract. It was then extended after we won the 3N and B & I Lions series in 2009, just before we went on the EOYT?
Agree about the two year contract with some performance clauses in it.
80% winning record or you are out.
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-245:
Gary Teichman did not captain any team before he was asked by Natal to become captain after Jamieson retired. He became quite succesful imo, at provincial level and international level. I’ve seen him being quite vocal on the field many times and I’m sure his fellow players hold him in high regard as a player and as a person.
Yes it is a gamble, but who else is there if you look to your captain taking you through to 2015?
Bismark?
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-250:
You’ll also remember that Schalk got injured in the first test of that series opening the door for HB. So, it was not just his performance that had selected. Schalk’s injury probably played a much bigger role in his selection for the rest of the series.
9 Oct 2011, 13:36 pm
PDV will leave witha legacy equally kak to all previous bok coaches…
Saru should realise that there isn’t a white coach in South Africa who is capable of sanitising the poisoned chalice. They all suffer from incestuous thinking.
Time to kill the Bok and allow the Protea to take its rightful place
9 Oct 2011, 13:37 pm
@RL(RL)-255:
Aplon is almost 30 and still a better winger than both Habana and JPP who are younger than him…
I posted my team somewhere on another thread i play Alberts at 4 Lock with Bekker
I play Louw or Burger at 8, probably preferably Louw.
Steenkamp / Beast
Bismark / Chili / Strauss
Coenie
Alberts / Mostert
Bekker
Brussow
Louw / Burger
Burger / Louw
Hougaard / Duvenhage
Goosen / Steyn
Mvovo / Mapoe
Steyn / De Jongh
Fourie / Mapoe
Mapoe / Aplon
Lambie
Something like that
9 Oct 2011, 13:38 pm
Here is your young team, only need a gas man in the 11 jersey and an enforcer lock.
15. Taute
14. Mjekevu
13. Sadie
12. Steyn
11.
10. Goosen
9. Hougaard
8. Vermeulen
7. Alberts
6. Brossow
5. Bekker
4.
3. Cilliers
2. Bissy
1. Coenie
9 Oct 2011, 13:40 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-256:
There’s another school of thought that says, select your best possible team and then make the best player in that team your captain.
9 Oct 2011, 13:40 pm
Yup Smit’s captaincy is what killed the Boks ultimately
Nobody will ever acknowledge that to be the absolute case.. but that is EXACTLY what undid this team from EVERY facet of its compromise.. that is what ultimately ensured that Boks could not win this WC by carrying Smit too far and way beyond any reasonable and rational eligibility
9 Oct 2011, 13:42 pm
Look at the top coaches in world rugby John Mitchell, Eddie Jones, Warren Gatland.
A non-South African who knew what he was doing – one who didn’t have to meet quotas got selected as coach … then I woke up and my coffee was cold.
De Viliers will be remembered as the coach who minimised a great team and lost us our titles. What a tragic mismanagement of talent – unforgivable.
9 Oct 2011, 13:45 pm
Some people still harping on about the refs performance as a reason why we lost.
We lost because of FOURIE DU PREEZ…. but because he is one of the untouchables in SA rugby means that people now have to put the blame somewhere else.
9 Oct 2011, 13:45 pm
@RL(RL)-263: Not bad but Mjekevu is a nothing so far .. I even prefer that Sithole from Sharks
Mapoe can come in at 13 off bench, gotta find another Aplon for 11 if Aplon too old unless Mjekevu improves his handling and control
12 there is Venter and De Jongh
Coenie can play TH better than Cilliers
Gurthro is still tops at 1
9 Oct 2011, 13:45 pm
@nama1(nama1)-264:
Nama
Principle is the same. You select the best man for the job and obviously leadership counts a lot amongst other issues to be considered.
9 Oct 2011, 13:47 pm
@nama1(nama1)-267:
Correct.. so what has Skoppie been screaming the past TWO YEARS
Get rid of Smit, Spies and FdP and we WIN the cup
well waddaya know.. who was correct and who was not ??
9 Oct 2011, 13:48 pm
@nama1(nama1)-260:
Yes I remember.
End of the day I think Peter de Villiers did a much better job then many gave him credit for. He left with dignity. I respect him personally.
Not the best coach we could’ve had, but he put out a Bok team that deserved to win tonight versus a strong Australian side that got away with murder.
He was willing to listen to others. In the end he became nothing more then the media face, and guys like Gold & Muir did the coaching. Credit to him for not being a dictator.
Yes, changes need to be made, but it doesn’t need an overhaul. We have a solid base to build from.
Throw in a few youngsters who can open things up, and we’re back near the top.
Considering the age of the All Blacks, they’re going to have to play very very well next year to match the Boks and Wobblies.
9 Oct 2011, 13:51 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-268: Mjekevu has been playing 13 all season, so his handling should be good now, I would start from scratch with that team. Forget about the losers who have only won 11 from 23 against 3N teams under Divvy.
9 Oct 2011, 13:52 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-270:
Cut it out.
Spies we have mostly all agreed with.
Fourie du Preez I will never agree with. He had the best of Will Genia on the night. His box kicks were pinpoint, and the Boks forced a lot of Wobblies mistakes from them. His passing you guys call poor. Have you played scrumhalf? It’s not a case of getting the ball as quick as possible and passing it. You need support runners, or your flyhalf in place.
And John Smit performed admirably. He had a solid 50mins, before Bismarck came on and did his thing. You can’t blame a referee allowing a free-for-all at rucks on him.
We were beaten by the better team, that consisted of 15 players and a referee.
9 Oct 2011, 13:55 pm
Funny how Rassie has not been mentioned today in terms of this lost. I seem to remember his name popping up after the victories against Fiji and Namibia.
9 Oct 2011, 13:55 pm
@nama1(nama1)-267:
I agree 100% percent with you. Du Preez should have never been part of the world cup team. He is over the hill. We tend to be too sentimental about selection. Our team was too old, some would say experienced. Hogwash, we had over 70% possession/control of the game. Where was the experience the to take us through?
The Aussie coach dropped his captain a few weeks before the world cup began because in his thinking it was the right thing to do. End of story. As the Former CEO of Harmony gold mine would say, create the crisis and then manage it for if you do no act the crisis will manifest itself at some stage and devour you.
9 Oct 2011, 13:56 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-250:
Hey Hennie………………………………………..remember this:
37.hendrikp:
2 Oct 2011, 11:48 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-28:
Wales yes. Samoa, no. We had an 8-point lead through pretty much the entire game, and their only try came from a forward pass.
P.S. You’re an idl0t. Come back when the All Blacks choke.
Well we might be chokers……………………………………………..But it takes one to know one.
Suck on that for a while!
8)
9 Oct 2011, 13:57 pm
@nama1(nama1)-267: too old too slow, as one if the fat boys he was never going to lose his place, regardless of form.
9 Oct 2011, 13:59 pm
@cane(cane)-276: isn’t he a convict?
9 Oct 2011, 14:00 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-275:
So sick of this rubbish. You guys need to forget about the players. We lost, end of story, but on the night most of them did their jobs brilliantly.
You really think we’d have played with almost 80% territory without a scrumhalf like Fourie du Preez? You obviously have no idea about what was going on out there. Fourie du Preez has the most dangerous boot of any scrumhalf in rugby, and tactically is brilliant. He just isn’t as dangerous with sniping as Will Genia.
9 Oct 2011, 14:01 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-273:
You are f’ng blind as a bat.. FdP lost us every good go forward ball since 2009, and Smit and Spies are absolute liabilities.. but its history now.. I told you LONG ago persist with this dead beat platform of slow and weak kick chase program and without developing back line game because FdP NULLIFIES it absolutely, and we gonna lose this WC..
Smit should have NOT started and FdP was too slow to effect any decent quick ball to back line .. hence our absolute lack beyond No.10…
Burger and Smit and Matfield and Roussow in Back Line is obviously a Rassie strategy but it is HOPELESS and will NEVER be an effective winning formula
Quick clearing ball from first and second phase breakdown and NO forwards in back line unless they are less than 15 mts from try line, and even then ONLY if they are going to bash and set up QUICK recycle ball.. UNLIKE the SLOW ball Burger , Spies, Roussow and FdP provides…
9 Oct 2011, 14:01 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-273:
Crack, Hennie, crack,
show us you’re real
Smack, hennie, smack, is that all that you feel
Suck, Hennie, suck,
give us your head
Before you start professing
that you’re knocking us dead
Oh well, next week is a new week i suppose
9 Oct 2011, 14:02 pm
du Preez had a good game today, besides his blunder on the tryline, He outplayed his opposition, that savage and his box kicks were spot on just outside the 22. Smit, Spies, Roussouw and PdV cost the Boks. End of discussion. Smit will never be forgiven for doing what he did. He hasn’t just ruined his legacy, but he has ruined his life. This will go with him to his grave. I hope Bismarck punched him in the face after the game.
When does the new coach usually get announced?
9 Oct 2011, 14:02 pm
@cane(cane)-276:
Haha, I guess you could say we choked, yes.
But that guy is an idiot. He doesn’t come here to talk about rugby, he comes here to stir. If he was reasonable I’d have been nice to him.
9 Oct 2011, 14:03 pm
Im happy to see a change at the coaching job coming up with some new game plans and fresh players
De Villiers constantly picked the wrong players (I dont want to name as theres no point wasting time when we all know who they were)
He should have given more game time to the form players…. Willem Alberts, Duane Vermeulen, Danie Russouw, Bismark Du Plessis, Peter Grant, Gio Aplon etc…
At the end of the day any man who compares himself to Nelson Madela just because the colour of his skin and he says hes fighting for change… yes Peter you were given the job not only on rugby credidentials and you have been successful in winning the Tri-Nations and winning the Lions tour.. but the remarks and the times inbetween have been poor.
To tell the press of who your best player is in a position after one game against Fiji (the Frans Steyn – De Villiers issue) is a travesty and De Villiers it was time to go.
The sad thing for bok rugby is that a generation has finished now: Fourie Du Preez, John Smit, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp, Butch James etc… but the boks must focus on the gifted and great players they have as their replacements:
Patrick Lambie
Francois Hougaard
Andries Bekker
Juandre Kruger
Jano Vermaak
Duane Vermeulen
Willem Alberts
Joshua Strauss
Juan De Jongh
etc…. the future is bright when you look at the talent playing Currie Cup rugby or on the bench for the boks today…
Tough luck on the loss but thats what KO rugby is all about, someone has to lose someone has to win and thats what makes the sport so special when you think of all the effort and pain the players put themselves through to get to this stage…
Losing to Australia is no mean feat and it wasnt like they lost badly things just didnt go their way on the day.
Now look forward to a new fresh look bok side and the rest of the world cup..
9 Oct 2011, 14:05 pm
Happy to see the back of you PDV.
Hope SA rugby has some balls to appoint a proper coach who can mastermind an intelligent game plan and properly manage our star players!
9 Oct 2011, 14:05 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-280:
You don’t come here to debate. You come here to supposedly tell us how it is. Why bother?
9 Oct 2011, 14:05 pm
@RL(RL)-277:
No hendrikp is a Bokke supporter who lives about 15 Km as the crow flies from the Avalon Club Roooms.
Which is where I live.
8)
9 Oct 2011, 14:06 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-286:
As do most of us!
8)
9 Oct 2011, 14:07 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-269:
Not the same principle Peter.
Selecting your captain first because he has the best leadership qualities does not necessarily mean that he automatically command a place in the team because of his playing abilities. John Smit is a case in point.
By selecting your team first before you appoint your captain (out of that team), you ensure that every player in the team is there on merit afa their playing abilities are concerned.
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-270:
Right. Some of us have been vocal about the 8, 9, 10 axis and JS for a while now. Unfortunately, the calls fell on deaf ears.
This is the result.
9 Oct 2011, 14:09 pm
I hope we can find some wings that are truly quick. Habana was that in 2007but he has lost a yard or two in pace which makes him just an average looking winger. The guys like O Conner, Dagg are young and quick and that gives them an edge.
I also think we need someone in the backline that is truly skillful that can make something out of nothing. AB’s had Carter and have SB Williams. Aussies have Cooper.
I dont know if such a player is around in the currie cup?
9 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-279:
In your little mind/opinion you are certainly the only one who is correct. We are sharing opinions here and if everyone’s was THE one then it would certainly not serve it’s purpose. Learn to be TOLERANT of a different view/opinion please. Friendly advice, it wont cost you a cent.
9 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
@Rhys7(Rhys7)-284:
Joshua Strauss will never be a Springbok. He’s like Ernst Joubert. Good player, but not a test player.
Duane Vermeulen might get there, but he won’t last long.
Also not a big fan of Jano Vermaak, but he’s probably 4th-choice behind Duvenage, Pienaar & Hougaard.
We need to forget about making everyone Springboks. No more Bok B-teams, or trying to build depth.
You try win every game with your very best team. You only play the players that deserve to be there, that are the very best in their positions.
The Bok jersey should have more value. No Bulls CC team should be full of unwanted Springboks.
No more 1-cap Boks, or a handful before recalling the first-choice after a rest.
9 Oct 2011, 14:13 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-280: You are worse than a limey – Stop complaining and concede victory – maybe you;ve never participated in sport for long enough to shake hands. Sp easy to find fault. Thought it a great game, though a shame about the result . My wife and i will still enjoy the kiwis against the wallabies even though we’ve traveled so far to see it!
9 Oct 2011, 14:14 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-292: 100%
9 Oct 2011, 14:16 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-291:
My little mind? Funny… I won’t get into that.
I don’t try break down a player because of a loss, that really was brought about by easily the worst refereeing performance I’ve ever seen.
I have preconceived ideas about a player, but if they change that, I don’t ignore it and try convince everyone how terrible they were anyway.
I believe Fourie du Preez brought value. We played a structured game, dominated territory etc. Fourie du Preez did exactly what was asked of him, and most rugby analysts would agree. In NZ they rave on about the guy.
Yet I should listen to a guy who as far as I know listens to the game on the radio and hasn’t played a game of rugby in his life?
You guys are just sour. We lost… but life goes on. Fourie du Preez especially, does not deserve to have this tarnish his reputation. He’s done a lot for Springbok rugby, and deserved to play in this game, and he played well.
9 Oct 2011, 14:17 pm
@nama1(nama1)-289:
We are splitting hairs here. What you are saying at end of the day is, your captain must be the best in his position. Nobody must question his selection. If that is what you mean then we are talking the same language.
Remember English is my second language.
9 Oct 2011, 14:19 pm
@bokgat1(bokgat1)-293:
Enjoy. If you get a chance I suggest you go to Waiheke Island. Can hire sea kayaks and go around the island if it’s a nice day.
9 Oct 2011, 14:19 pm
@nama1(nama1)-289: When you guys say it like this, you make it sound like our campain was a complete shambles ala 2003 after Kamp Staaldraad! There was not a player in a green jersey today that did not do his job. They were simply outstanding. I had reservations about JdV but even he had a good game. We had the best defensive record in terms of tries scored, were the most disciplined team and eventhough we missed quite a few 1st up tackles, our scrambling was also right up there. Today was about opportunities lost and not adapting to the referee, although having to adapt to a ref is wrong for the game imo. Why can’t they just apply the law as it stands? Anyway point is, there is no shame in losing to Aus in this Qtr final, unlike 2003. Our players, every single one of them left it out there.
9 Oct 2011, 14:22 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-286: so who the fck are YOU to go telling it how it IS..when you are wrong
@bokgat1(bokgat1)-293: and same to you, I could tell you to take a hike in my customary manner or else I tell you politely….
Victory is long ago conceded to the deserving team in this case which is Wallabies.. even though they were lucky and they know it.. that’s the way it panned out.. we were not gonna win this clash for reasons where we conceded superiority some time ago.. not today.. today we fought tooth and nail and narrowly lost by a ball hair and by some dubious decisions we fairly lost.. but we should NOT have had proper preparation been the order PRIOR to kick off…
9 Oct 2011, 14:24 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-298:
Spot on. I think the Springboks played a brilliant game, and that Bryce Lawrence allowing Pocock to do whatever he wanted at rucks was what decided the game.
Robbie Deans has basicly said that Pocock’s performance can’t be put into words. That says it all.
9 Oct 2011, 14:26 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-299:
How do you call yourself a Springbok supporter? All you do is b***h and moan.
I’m a genuine supporter. I support anyone who pulls that jersey on, especially if they deserve to be there.
You swearing every time you post shows your class. F this, f that. Pathetic really. Time to grow up pal.
9 Oct 2011, 14:29 pm
I’d say, even though these ratings are maybe a little harsh considering we lost (everyone would’ve gone up a point had we won) I agree in comparison to other players with all of them except Habana who was at least a 6.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyWorldCup2011/Our-gutted-Boks-How-they-rated-20111009
9 Oct 2011, 14:29 pm
HALLELUJAH
BEST NEWS FOR THE BOKS
IT WAS WORTH LOSING IN THE SEMIS
FOK JOU PDV
9 Oct 2011, 14:29 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-302:
Oh and Schalk Burger should be at least a 9. Him and Pocock were by far the best players on the pitch.
9 Oct 2011, 14:30 pm
@cane(cane)-287: I though you stayed in hell, and Satan was 15km from you following the crow .. it doesn’t matter 2012 is here soon and this is your last chance to win Bill before the world ends.
9 Oct 2011, 14:30 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-301:
You are not a true Bok supporter
piss off
9 Oct 2011, 14:30 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-271:
Yeah, interesting times ahead. Wales and Aus with their young teams in the final are the teams to watch in the next few years.
AB’s and Boks have to build new teams. Fortunately for us there are a lot of young guys who aready had a taste of test rugby. All that needs to happen is for the new coach to mould them in a TEAM and play a new brand of rugby. This skop and jaag kak must stop now.
The interesting thing about the AB’s, is how quickly they bounce back after seemingly hard times like losing players. The only position they will have a problem in next year is at lock, I believe. Their scrum half situation has been there for a while now and they still managed to win 80% of their games.
…oh yes, they need to bring Cruden through.
What do I bet you they will be hitting their straps while we are still rebuilding. Unfortunately their don’t seem to be a EOYT this year. Would have been the ideal opportunity for the new coach to test out a new squad.
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-279:
Hendrik, how many times was FdP not in position behind the ruck when we could have had quick ball for our backs. I can, from the top of my head remember instances where JPP, VM, Habana, Schalk all passed the ball from the base of the ruck because FdP was not in position.At one time even Gurthro got ready to pass the ball before FdP arrived at the ruck.
If you want to be blind for his shortcomings in the last 18 months, you can go ahead and do it.
9 Oct 2011, 14:30 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-298: Too right mate. Its the nature of the beast – the alternative is a boring cyclops machine and Federer (ding dong) Nadal! May the best team win take the crown – as long as its not QC and his kangaroos. He looks like a **** going down a kitchen sink, oops I didn’t say that, someone bumped my elbow…
9 Oct 2011, 14:30 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-303:
Eventually, this happens to every coach. Helluva k@k job really isn’t it.
9 Oct 2011, 14:32 pm
Brendan Venter is probably too white, controversial, intelligent and a good choice to get the nod from the tools in charge. Would love him, however.
Mitchell, Mallet and Meyer would be excellent choices. Coetzee would be decent, but I’ve never been convinced that he’s able to breed a clinical, trophy winning team. Carlos Spencer for backline coach and Johan Goosen the golden boy.
9 Oct 2011, 14:32 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-303: semis or quarters doos
9 Oct 2011, 14:32 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-304:
Schalk gave away the only try of the match idiot
9 Oct 2011, 14:33 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-300: Maybe Deans is too embarassed to call it?
I think skoppie and the rest of them want to vindicate the months and months of predicting this day of doom where reality is so far from it. If there was one player a finger could be pointed to then maybe Spies but he was duely substituted for Alberts. Whichs sorta points to the fact that everyone involved, even management, got it right for the most part. A forward pass here, a dropped ball there. Lambie missing a drop by inches. They just wanna say “I told you so” All it is
9 Oct 2011, 14:33 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-306:
True. Real Bok supporters are the ones who tell everyone how useless all the players are.
I’m definitely not a Bok supporter for supporting them. It’s better to go the other way.
F0k off.
9 Oct 2011, 14:33 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-300:
Oh comeon Hendrik. You are now misrepresenting Robie Deans. What he meant was that the guys played out of his shoes. That is why the Boks could not score because he successfully slowed our ruck ball. Part of the game and is not always legal. As Naas said you always play the ref.
9 Oct 2011, 14:34 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-298: @hendrikp(hendrikp)-300:
Yip I was proud of how they all played.. every one of them played their guts out and put it all out there
However the collective was NOT enough.. it was close but fell SHORT of the mark.. and that was lost BEFORE they took the field today… ref blew it the way he saw it.. maybe right or wrong.. we blew it by conceding easy soft try.. whoever got that ball from Burger on the deck whether legally or illegitimately and same when Burger went for their try line it popped their side not ours..
So bottom line they tried and tried hard and valiantly put all their heart and soul and body on the line.. though it was INSUFFICIENT in the final analysis… and that is where one has to call the long term strategy to book and ask.. was this the ultimately BEST selection of personnel in the best rotating format and best prevailing strategy to win a WC.. I seriously have my doubts…
9 Oct 2011, 14:34 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-314:
fok jou and die mal PDV
9 Oct 2011, 14:35 pm
@bokgat1(bokgat1)-311:
my apologies quarters, because if he made the semis he may have
wanted another 4 years, doos
9 Oct 2011, 14:36 pm
Boks deserved to lose
Fok Smit
9 Oct 2011, 14:37 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-312:
David Pocock walked through the middle and kicked the ball out. If anything Heinrich Brussow failed to secure it, but it should have been a penalty. I don’t see what Burger could’ve done better.
But it’s okay, you guys like blaming the ones you’ve told your friends are rubbish.
Genuine Springbok supporter you are.
9 Oct 2011, 14:39 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-318: You’re not the brightest, are you? I’m sure you’re good at something though. Like chopping wood, or mopping floors. There’s a place for everyone.
9 Oct 2011, 14:40 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-320:
Burger ran the ball 5 meters from the Bok try line and lost it.
He is so overrated.
Anyway its not his fault we lost.
Its the 2 dumb scumbags
PDV en SMITTY
9 Oct 2011, 14:40 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-315:
I have no issue with what Pocock did. He’s the best player in the world at the moment, I’ve been saying it all year.
But the rules are there for a reason. Bryce Lawrence should firstly not have been handed this game after what happened with Ireland vs Australia. Also not because of him being sat down by Paddy O’Brien after that game, and being heavily criticized for penalizing Australia too much apparently.
I would call that an unfair advantage to Australia right there.
9 Oct 2011, 14:40 pm
I don’t blame PdV, just as I don’t blame the **** accountants who leave others to double check their work (grrr) just as I don’t blame any incompetent person given work because of colour. It is unfair, but toy toying about it isn’t going to help. Life is there to be lived and complaining and bitching about the past/present will do nothing for your future.
Interesting times ahead of the Springboks, hopefully for once sanity will prevail.
If I get too moody I’ll just rewatch Khune faking a groin injury to waste time and then jumping up and down celebrating not qualifying.
9 Oct 2011, 14:41 pm
they played great – question is how many of the remaining team will be too old in four years time. Current 30 minus JdV, FdP and 2 locks – maybe Habana and mossie. Anyone else? Looks like the only thing coach criticizes himself about (not bringing in enough newbies) may not be correct. Maybe he is not so stupid after-all!!!
9 Oct 2011, 14:41 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-316: I think that was a fair post from you skop, i know unusual coming from me, I never doubted you to be a true supporter, just one i disagree with most of the time
9 Oct 2011, 14:41 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-321:
lol katman the moffie is back
m-onkeys have more brains than you
9 Oct 2011, 14:41 pm
Just returned from lunch with the in-laws! Even the roast potatoes didn’t taste the same. Not much different here I see. Let’s focus on the future as the past is just that – history.
I for one am glad the coach did the dignified thing and resigned. The captain followed suite, but that was a known fact.
We have some great up and coming talents. Mvovu, Sithole, Elstadt, Koster, Pretorius, Goosen, Divenhage, etc. These guys with Lambie, Fourie, Brussouw bodes well for us in the future. Just hope we get a good coach. Gutted I am, but no use crying over spilt milk.
9 Oct 2011, 14:43 pm
Patrick Lambie: 7.5
JP Pietersen: 5
Jaque Fourie: 6
Jean de Villiers: 7
Bryan Habana: 5
Morné Steyn: 6.5
Fourie du Preez: 6
Pierre Spies: 5
Schalk Burger: 7
Heinrich Brüssow: 5.5
Victor Matfield: 7
Danie Rossouw: 5
Jannie du Plessis: 6
John Smit: 6
Gurthro Steenkamp: 8.5
Relevant substitutes:
Francois Louw: 7.5
Bismarck du Plessis: 7.5
Francois Hougaard: 6.5
Willem Alberts: 7
If Bismark, Alberts and Hougaard would have started this game at 2, 8 and 9 and Aplon come on for Habana, with Louw on for Brussow.. we would have won the game…
Simple
9 Oct 2011, 14:43 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-322:
Do you know what the word overrated means?
9 Oct 2011, 14:43 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-316: You should’ve just left it at your first line
“Yip I was proud of how they all played.. every one of them played their guts out and put it all out there”
I’m inclined to think that you must know and feel that as a supporter you can’t realy ask for more than this. They absolutely dominated this game. And you know that to be true. Maybe Div, as a parting gift, can tell us again how we won this game in all facets but the scoreboard. I sometimes wonder why Schalk and the other boys would even want to put their bodies on the line for folks like you.
9 Oct 2011, 14:44 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-327:
Don’t know Katman at all and I’m not sticking up for him, but your comments are embarrassing. Burger overrated?
9 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-316:
Sentiment got the better of our common sense. We went to the world with injured players, awfully off form players, best hooker on the bench etc. I can go on and on.
One player I respect is Jean Smith. Doubt if he will ever reach the heights he did. Psychologically I think he is shattered.
9 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-328: Hitler and his 2IC committed suicide and these guys only resigned? Oh sorry sh?t happens? Oh its just a game – ok sorry ok!
9 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm
FOK JOU PDV
FOK JOU SMITTY
So who will be the Boks next coach?
The Quota coach from WP?
9 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-327: Go, you internet warrior. You really know how to put us in our place.
9 Oct 2011, 14:47 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-333:
Juan Smith is a legend for sure. We missed him and Bekker so much.
9 Oct 2011, 14:47 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-332:
YES
Burger gave away the only try of the match, 5 meters from his tryline.
Lol some of you guys are morons
We should be angry at this bullshit
We had all the possession and still we could not win
Its a disgarce
9 Oct 2011, 14:47 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-322:
I’m not even going to bother. What’s that moron on youtubes name? Raynier or something? I can’t stand the guy… but from what I hear he’s making more sense then you lot.
We played a brilliant game. We lost because of the refereees interpretation at rucks. Pocock got away with murder. Good on him, but Lawrence had a shocker, and therefore Pocock had a blinder. End of the day Lawrence should never have been handed this game. It should’ve been a NH referee, considering that both NH quarters were SH referees.
In my mind, Smit will go down as one of the best Springbok captains of all-time. Also a true gentleman who did an excellent job taking over the captaincy from Krige who was an embarrassment alongside Straueli. He retires with his integrity intact. With respect. The players will remember him as a great leader.
PdV not so much. But at least he’s also leaving quietly. I believe he always acted in the interests of Springbok rugby. For that he deserves credit, even if sometimes he’d have been better off keeping his mouth shut.
And Fourie du Preez is probably the best scrumhalf we’ve ever had. Joost was a try-scorer, but FdP was a match-winner in his prime, and even at this WC, when not at his best, he was still a valuable player.
Bryan Habana is top try-scorer in Springbok history. Says it all.
And Schalk Burger, if you think Kiwis know their rugby, was MOTM out there. To my mind he should go down as one of the greatest, one of the very very very best Springboks to ever play the game.
The Boks lost, but I’m proud.
I’m off to bed. Everyone have a fantastic day.
9 Oct 2011, 14:48 pm
@bokgat1(bokgat1)-334:
9 Oct 2011, 14:48 pm
Personally, I wouldn’t back Alberts as the answer at 8, he’s just too slow covering the backline, as I noticed a couple of times today. For me there are at least 2 out of 3 assets that an international 8 needs: presence going forward and in the tackle, skill and speed. Alberts lacks the last 2, whilst all Spies has is speed.
I’d also keep Morne in the mix at 10, together with Lambie and Jantjies . Goosen needs at least a season of S15 to judge. Ebersohn should also be on the fringe, as well.
9 will be a major problem with no obvious young standout 9s at the moment, depending on where Hougie plays next year for the Bulls.
9 Oct 2011, 14:50 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-339:
That is why this is called a blog! We have our own opinions. He was a legend, but went one season too far. Only my opinion but it is what I think happened.
9 Oct 2011, 14:50 pm
The interent has many virtues. Little angry kids behind their keyboards certainly isn’t one of them.
9 Oct 2011, 14:51 pm
@David(David)-341:
What about Catrikilis? Hehehe
9 Oct 2011, 14:51 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-332: lol wouldnt worry about katman, he has the gift of the gab and have never seen any one get the better of him.
9 Oct 2011, 14:51 pm
internet*
9 Oct 2011, 14:51 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-339:
We never played a brilliant game you moron.
We were on the Aussies line at least 5times and we got our ball turned over
every time
What game were you watching?
9 Oct 2011, 14:51 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-337:
No doubt. How old is he now?
9 Oct 2011, 14:52 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-313: Nobody is telling you I told you so.. That I already told you so long ago already.. its only slow thinkers like yourself that take forever to see reality dawn when you could have seen this exact scenario coming to fruition when it was already set in motion way back when… close but no cigar is NOT CLOSE ENOUGH .. even if they did play like their lives depended on it .. they FELL SHORT…
and the chief culprits of that falling short should sit up and take good note of the REASONS WHY..
Gees and do or die commitment will take you so far…. setting yourself up for a fail will only take you that far and not ALL the WAY.. so WHO really expected anything more than that… certainly NOT I..??
Obviously you did.. I knew a win today was nigh on a miracle carrying passengers that should not be there… Close you can call it.. unlucky .. maybe .. but NO CIGAR this time.. because THIS time we had to play one of the BEST and PREVAIL.. not a lucky packet Russian Roulette win like last time where nobody bothered to pitch up beyond the quarters..
9 Oct 2011, 14:52 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-343:
Lol you conservative p-ricks are all over the earth
9 Oct 2011, 14:52 pm
@David(David)-341: FdP said he’d like Hougie to replace him at 9 when he’s gone.
9 Oct 2011, 14:53 pm
@David(David)-341: I’d play Hougaard at scrummie. The more he touches the ball, the better for us.
I disagree about Alberts. I think he’s deceptively quick, and he has good hands. I think he’s make a great Bok no.8 or blindside flank.
New additions to the mix for me (based on the S15 and CC this year) are Jaco Taute, Johan Sadie and Siya Kolisi.
9 Oct 2011, 14:54 pm
“he has won just five from 11 against the All Blacks”
= better than any other post-isolation coach with the extra AB win coming from a home game.
PdV and his side have the best record against the Kiwis of any international side in the last 4 years.
Nice try guys, no cigar.
9 Oct 2011, 14:55 pm
Hmmm, depression needs to go. Girlfriend or The Dollars Trilogy? I think I’m going to go with Clint (no ****).
9 Oct 2011, 14:55 pm
we can’t say h o m o, but twat is allowed?
9 Oct 2011, 14:56 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-348:
Late twenties I think.
9 Oct 2011, 14:56 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-340: Tough debate, we are not football hooligans. This is real body on the line stuff and its tough to hear sorry at the end. the responsibility goes beyond the players – its a huge commitment even though Schalk struggles to put his flppy hat on his head.
The President that can’t on one hand sat don’t come home unless you win and why aren’t there more blacks playing in the S15′s! What kind of coach are we going to get to put up with **** like that other than maybe an Eddie or Rassie consultant!
9 Oct 2011, 14:56 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-349:
We saw it coming, it was clear as daylight.
PDV and Smitty are scum
at least both those clowns are finished
9 Oct 2011, 14:56 pm
@mcaj(mcaj)-290:
Shadow?
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-292:
“You only play the players that deserve to be there, that are the very best in their positions.”
…and come RWC time or if a player gets injured people jump on the coach’s back because he did not build depth.
What to do if you are the coach.
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-296:
I believe we agree.
Mine too.
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-298:
I’m sure every player on the field today tried his utmost best and we’ll never really know what the outcome would’ve been if our coaches had the balls to drop guys like Spies and FdP some time ago already. What I do know however is that these two did not deserve to start today and had been undeserving of a Bok cap for a while now.
9 Oct 2011, 14:56 pm
Keo is officially anti-****.
9 Oct 2011, 14:57 pm
of **** off.
9 Oct 2011, 14:58 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-355:
you cant say j-esus on keo lol
9 Oct 2011, 14:58 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-333:
You mean “Juan”? Juanita and its male corruption Juan is popular in the Free State mainly because of the popularity of Juanita Harrismith.
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-335:
You really are a slimey piece of work with your adolescent posts.
9 Oct 2011, 14:59 pm
@nama1(nama1)-359:
I can’t see the new coach playing Spies. He is such a big guy but such a softie. The way he puts his hands up as he misses tackle after tackle is so annoying.
9 Oct 2011, 15:00 pm
@David(David)-363:
censorship freak who hates free speech
s-crew you
9 Oct 2011, 15:01 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-360:
lol is keo also anti j-esus?
9 Oct 2011, 15:03 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-349: Well unless someone invents this thing you sit in to throw you into a parallel universe, we’ll never know how it would’ve panned had we gone the way you wanted. All I know is, AS A TEAM, this entire WC they played some pretty good rugby. None more so than today. I’m proud of them for doing so. A little angry too for not finishing better but not as much as I’m livid at Bryce for controlling the game completely different to what we have seen from him so far in this cup. But that is the way the cookie crumbles like you said. The players you singled out for the last couple of months and again today, did not let the team down. No matter how much you want it to be that way
9 Oct 2011, 15:03 pm
@David(David)-363:
Hahahaha! Yeah, you naughty. First laugh for the day. How old is Juanita now????
9 Oct 2011, 15:04 pm
@>^..^< kakman(kakman)-352:
Is this for the meeting of Ireland or England or Argentina
/
/
/
/
/
at the airport?
There are no more internationals for you this year, MORONS, ” geddit”?
9 Oct 2011, 15:04 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-351: @>^..^< katman(katman)-352:
As I said, depending where and how he plays next year.
I watched Alberts a couple of times trundling across the field.
As a Lion, Katman, what about Strauss as a future contender? Whitely also impressed me as a skillfull 8. Luckily, there’s a lot of youngsters that can develop over the next couple of years. We just need to identify them early and develop them as potential Bok material.
9 Oct 2011, 15:05 pm
If the Aussies or ABs lose in the world cup there is an outcry. Pandemonium
But when we lose our supporters have excuses for the Boks, what a joke
FOK PDV en Smitty
Time for the next Quota coach
9 Oct 2011, 15:07 pm
@David(David)-370:
Censorship freak
Who cares about next year idiot?
9 Oct 2011, 15:07 pm
@David(David)-363:
Is the Norwich born Englishman still spouting nationalism and or sicker patriotism for genuine black S.Africans?
I sang for you all, months ago that ” It is written in the Stars ” as it was in Aida.
9 Oct 2011, 15:10 pm
I would take Brendan Venter or John Mitchell any day. Neither are YESMEN so wonder if they fit the mould. Venter respected and players will be comfortabel with him. mitchell took the Lions from nothing to competing with limited talent and he is a shrewd rugby brain. Get these boys in before we go to the UK in November!
Too numb to talk about PDV but at the end fo the day he was a political tool out of his depth and in many ways i feel for the guy. His record is no different to many recent coaches which reinforces our standing in the global game. Who ever comes in cannot work from World Cup to World Cup. We need to play our best team every game. Its time to make each game count. ITs the Springboks after all.
9 Oct 2011, 15:10 pm
Be interesting if a guy like Mitchell got the job for a couple of years – tho i dont know how long he’d last, the overall change of approach would be a complete paradigm shift.
the first squad of 2012 will be an interesting one especially if most of this team ar playing overseas and not selected. The end of an era.
9 Oct 2011, 15:11 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-368:
The story of her and Sir Harry Smiths romance during the Spanish Peninsular wars is quite famous. I also found it quite unusual to find a Spanish name so popular amongst Afrikaners, until I read the history.
About 160.
9 Oct 2011, 15:12 pm
@nama1(nama1)-359: Whether they deserved to be there is immaterial. Fact is they were and they played their guts out! Quade Cooper looked worse today than he was in AUK a few months back. That’s how much we rattled him. Genia was quite too. So to was Ioane. Pocock won them the match in the end. And Bryce. Not through scoring tries but spoiling/stealing our ball illegally. You guys can hardly fault Smit, FdP and whoever else in the Bok team for that.
9 Oct 2011, 15:12 pm
Can all posters take heed.
Refrain from: unnecessary name calling, leaving CAPS LOCK on gutter journalist style, being repetitive and dull for an extented period of time, embracing acronyms used by the young internet warlords of our time, being sexist about anything apart from female drivers, schadenfreude, being pedantic, selling alcohol (ahem) and lastly racism.
I thank you.
9 Oct 2011, 15:13 pm
PdV always said he wouldn’t seek another term as coach. He didn’t quit. He kept his word.
9 Oct 2011, 15:13 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-339:
“…but FdP was a match-winner in his prime, and even at this WC, when not at his best, he was still a valuable player.”
Is that a concession that FdP was not very good at this WC?
@David(David)-341:
Agree with all your points.
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-351:
Let’s wait for John Smit to come out and say that Chilliboy should replace him at 2. Wonder how that will go down with the people.
9 Oct 2011, 15:13 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-331: They don’t do it for folks like me they do it for THEMSELVES firstly because amongst other criteria that is what they are PAID to do… secondly they should also use their f’ng thick heads if they wanna win a WC.. kamakaze type idiocy don’t win every time.. some proper use of the top two inches also actually COUNTS….
Burger does a lot right but he does a big proportion of stuff WRONG as well.. like gifting Wallabies a try on our line and not protecting ball on the ground numerous times.. plus playing out of position and slowing back line game down
Boks lost because they got it WRONG both on the day and for the entire campaign.. had coach and captain and selectors reasoned PROPERLY we would have WON and not LOST where we won everywhere EXCEPT on the score board which is where it ACTUALLY COUNTS… dumb clever idiot that you remain…
9 Oct 2011, 15:14 pm
We have a blank canvas now…..a fresh start. The key ingredient is going to be the next coaching staff…..it begins and ends with the Head Coach and the philosophy he brings to the table.
All I personally wish and pray for is a real world class individual who will never ever and farken never again allow sentiment to rule his head and selections…
It is history and behind us now, and as a few of us knew in our hearts the whole shebang has ended in tears….
there is no turning back the clock,no 2 nd chances, but there is an opportunity to learn….
And the lesson has to be avoid sentiment and candy floss….no individuual should be bullet proof, no player is untouchable…..no player is bigger then the game, no player can be carried. The boks must always be the best of the best….sadly spies and plod were unable to deliver when it counted and in alberts and bissy we had 2 players at the height of there powers sitting frustrated on the sidelines……how utterly insane and arrogant of us to do this.
PDV…go well…..regretfully your misplaced loyalty to 2 or 3 players proved to be our death blow ….to ourselves….
Mallet or Mitchell for me….only other coach I would want is B Venter…anyone else I would be dissapointed…
9 Oct 2011, 15:14 pm
@ET.(ET.)-373:
What are you babbling about?
9 Oct 2011, 15:14 pm
Solomon, Mitchell, Meyer for coach.
Not Venter. Want Coetzee to stay at WP developing youngsters.
9 Oct 2011, 15:14 pm
@David(David)-370:
Don’t you know anyone with Neanderthal DNA just like to ” trundle” instead of rumble?
Is it because they do not have any beat in the feet?
How is my perfect 4 for 4 in these quarters, as an indicator of foresight?
How is your hindsight in missing the gold on W H O R E Street?
9 Oct 2011, 15:15 pm
@nama1(nama1)-380:
I think if your last point came true there’d be a hot reception.
9 Oct 2011, 15:15 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-378:
Nog n censorship freak
Apart hate is dead move on boy
well its half dead
now we have AA
9 Oct 2011, 15:16 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-384:
Next coach a QUOTA coach
Any bets?
9 Oct 2011, 15:16 pm
@David(David)-383:
About you losers, is that too another Double Fantasy?
How John Lennon will turn in his grave because of you.
9 Oct 2011, 15:17 pm
@David(David)-383:
When are you finally going home?
9 Oct 2011, 15:17 pm
A few GOOD EXAMPLES here that too many CAPITAL LETTERS indicates a LOW IQ.
9 Oct 2011, 15:18 pm
@David(David)-383:
Your idiocy
9 Oct 2011, 15:19 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-391:
lol DUDE are you mentally challenged ?
9 Oct 2011, 15:20 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-388: I want a proper backline coach to replace Muir…
9 Oct 2011, 15:21 pm
I’m degrading myself by responding to a child, but who uses the word dude anymore?
9 Oct 2011, 15:21 pm
@grant10(grant10)-382:
Never, ever doubt the understanding, knowledge, interpretation, scientific analysis and foresight of the ExtraTerrestrial, even when it is announced years ahead of the event.
My job is almost, but not quite, done for my people the geuine non-racial adherents.
You better do your penance if you are to be among those numbers.
9 Oct 2011, 15:21 pm
Keo was right
Boks fly home today
What a disgrace
PDV the clown
9 Oct 2011, 15:22 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-379:
Also still trying to understand how you quit/resign if your contract has expired.
If your contract expires you are automatically out of a job and therefore can’t quit/resign, not so?
9 Oct 2011, 15:22 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-395:
You have just done so, therefore stop acting childishly, silly boy.
9 Oct 2011, 15:22 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-395:
Lol you are a child trapped in an adults body
9 Oct 2011, 15:23 pm
@nama1(nama1)-398:
Huil jy nogsteeds?
9 Oct 2011, 15:23 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-381: No need to get stroppy just because I don’t agree with you. What’s with the namecalling? The players in question didn’t lose us this WC. Well, technically Burger did lose that ball for the Aussie try and so did FdP drop one a mtr out but I feel there were mitigating circumstances. Unless your view is that single mistake constitute a bad game?
9 Oct 2011, 15:24 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-394:
Yes we can only hope
Muir is just another waste of space in the Bok set up
9 Oct 2011, 15:24 pm
old ET is jumping and strutting around like a prize bantamcock. he’s like a little cockerell on speed and his shot of choice is a Bok loss.
9 Oct 2011, 15:24 pm
The only thing getting me through the day is thinking about the new look Bok side. Seeing Hougaard and Lambie as our 9 and 10 with F Steyn at 12 will hopefully make today a distant memory.
Regarding the coach, it’s a real pity Meyer won’t be an option. He would have done wonders with this much talent
9 Oct 2011, 15:25 pm
@nama1(nama1)-398:
Sing jy nou ” Die trane die rol vir jou Bokke “?
9 Oct 2011, 15:25 pm
I wish it was Habana and Spies retiring
9 Oct 2011, 15:25 pm
@cab(cab)-404:
Janee. jou nare , maar ware gatlekker.
9 Oct 2011, 15:27 pm
@ET.(ET.)-385:
4/4 is a great prediction rate. From my side, I don’t get involved in predictions, only possible results and some designed to get a reaction.
As for Wall St, I predicted the crash 4 years ago and believe that Wall St/ K St/ Republicans are hell bent on turning the US into an oligarchy.
9 Oct 2011, 15:28 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/8816349/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-Bryce-Lawrence-reduced-breakdown-to-a-farce-in-Australias-win-over-South-Africa.html
Have a look at this.
9 Oct 2011, 15:28 pm
@cab(cab)-404:
Die woord van my Kaapse mense is dat die Kaap is Hollands vandag vir jou rassisties Boklose rugby.
9 Oct 2011, 15:28 pm
@ET.(ET.)-408:
perfect description of yourself you miserable eienaardige little twatface.
u got to a particularly pitiful individual if you take such glee in a Bok loss.
check at u carry on…go my boy go for all that u are worth…
9 Oct 2011, 15:29 pm
@ET.(ET.)-390:
After almost 50 years, this is my home.
9 Oct 2011, 15:29 pm
@David(David)-383: he’s just a f’ng babbler that is what he is a f’ng useless moronic imbecile babbler that still hasn’t evolved from the half bred babbling cot he was born in
@ET.(ET.)-385: You are a ******* moron of the Nth degree.. you stupid dumb fck neanderthal imbecilic Excruciating pathetic TWAT
9 Oct 2011, 15:30 pm
@David(David)-409:
Did you predict that the Dow would recover almost 80% troll?
This is not an financial forum you moron
But if it was the United States is a one party state with 2 heads
Obama the clown is perpetuating most of Bush policies
Do you even know what the Bail Outs mean?
Now go and play in the sand pit kid
9 Oct 2011, 15:30 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-400:
You really think your juvenile behaviour has any effect on others? Having a lack of respect for everything around you isn’t making a statement, contrary to what you may think.
Anyway I really hope Wales take this, if not them then France. Enjoy the rest of the day gents.
9 Oct 2011, 15:30 pm
i Aam far too emotional to say more.
Wel done aussies….
Cowboys dont cry.
Saffas bleeding all over…let me go tend to my gaping wounds…
cheers
outta here
9 Oct 2011, 15:32 pm
@grant10(grant10)-417: exactly how i feel boet.
It’s tough….
9 Oct 2011, 15:33 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-416:
Valk your comments are devoid of any content
9 Oct 2011, 15:34 pm
@Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-410:
Good to see some neutral nations calling it as it is.
9 Oct 2011, 15:34 pm
We did the two things things we needed to do to win. We dominated the Aussie forwards more than we could have dared dream and we caused Cooper to have a nightmare of a game. Unbelievably we still lost. The lesson I think is we have to no longer rely soley on a kicking game to win the big games. Yes it is important to have a good goalkicker but one is not going to get through the knockout rounds only kicking penalties. Individually our backline players can break through a defence but there is never any link up when it is needed or angled running etc. When a team gets 70% possession it has to score tries. Having said that I think every bok tried his heart out today and none of them deserve the level of criticism they are getting by some on this blog.
9 Oct 2011, 15:35 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-419:
Your skull is devoid of any content, little mosquito.
9 Oct 2011, 15:36 pm
@grant10(grant10)-417:
good comment
its heartbreak and someone needs to pay for this bullsh-it
Bok supporters are the losers
well most of them
not some of the idiots here
9 Oct 2011, 15:37 pm
@David(David)-409:
” I don’t get involved in predictions ”
But a little later:
” As for Wall St, I predicted the crash … ” What a mighty contradiction Sir Norwich? Are you into it or are you not into it. Just be straight forward as I do not want to read between your lines, please.
Has the loss of the gold WC left you utterly confused and in conflict with yourself?
And why not W H O R E or even just WAR Street then? Too much respect for capitalism and colonialism and imperialism even in the neo-form?
I am untouchable today as neo-racism has lost out and the balance of rugby union is being reset.
9 Oct 2011, 15:37 pm
Paul Treu would be the ideal Springbok coach. He is well spoken, for one thing, and respected all over the world (just listen to the overseas commentators go on about him when the Blitzbokke play).
But more than that, he has a very clear vision of coaching, which includes getting and implementing training and playing ideas from other sports, like Aussie Rules football and American football. He has discovered a wealth of young talent and keep introducing them slowly to the international environment.
His best attribute is the way in which he analyses each opposing team, comes up with a specific plan for each game and then train the players to go out and play according to that plan. For example: this year he developed a defensive pattern that forced Samoas outside speedsters to the middle of the field, where they lost all the advantage of their speed, he used a seven-man rolling maul against which Fiji was powerless, and told his players to kick and chase more in other games. The Bliztbokke lost about a whole team to injuries and Super Rugby, but they still won three of the last five tournaments, and ended second on the log.
The man is a visionary – he’ll bring the World Cup home again.
9 Oct 2011, 15:37 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-422:
Lol moron i dare you to post one comment with any content
9 Oct 2011, 15:39 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-422:
Do Not lie, as the skull protects much nerve tissue in humans, even if mostly much is not nearly enough.
9 Oct 2011, 15:40 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-402:
Overall strategy and overall selection policy is what lost us this WC.. we are definitely possibly of the most talented and physically dominating side there.. we have all the die hard spirit that we are famous for.. we lack heaps in the thinking dept.. and that has been our nemesis from way back when
Wrong selections and lack of pace to and from and through breakdown.. and wrong selection of horses for courses on the day and for the entire campaign is what ultimately got us this far and no further…
Bottom line is had Smit not started and Hougaard played 9 from long time back.. not only from today… and a better option at 8 was found… Boks would have prevailed and possibly won…
Bismark Alberts Hougaard should have started, Hougaard at 9 not 11.. Burger should not play first receiver in the back line and neither should Matfield or Roussow .. and Aplon should have been utilized as a game breaker at some point…
CJ, Butch and Aplon were not even deployed.. 3 positions wasted.. and no fresh legs at prop throughout the 80 … Steenkamp was the most monumental giant for me out there today..
Matfield had a big game, but ultimately though Burger put every last inch of effort on the line his couple mistakes still were the diffs between success and a fail.. FdP ook..
9 Oct 2011, 15:41 pm
A true Bok supporter would be in mourning now
Not defending our exit from the world cup
but venting our feelings at the clown we had for a coach
and his pathetic selectors and coaching staff
9 Oct 2011, 15:45 pm
@cab(cab)-412:
Yes, your confusion still reigns unabated as that is clearly addressed to you from me.
And as expected NO originality exists in your being, ‘Meneer Gatlekker’. Woordeloos is jy en wonderlik is dit!
9 Oct 2011, 15:45 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-416:
Yeah I’m punting a Wales or France win… even if it is just to shut this miserable Cape flats rubbish half breed AB gatlekker up for good…
But my money is actually for Aussie to take out AB’s next week and I reckon Wales might be too strong for France though if France go through is fine by me.. France or Wales to take Wallabies in the final will be just what the good doctor ordered for the good old sake of World Rugby
9 Oct 2011, 15:46 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-426:
Look up the word irony. I’ve said a lot in the past two days at least on par with 95% of posters, which I don’t care to repeat to a boy looking for attention. I truly feel sorry for you as the only time you feel powerful is when you’re behind a keyboard. When so many are calling you a child it’s time to hush, so I’ll do what I should’ve done 30 minutes ago and stop feeding the troll.
9 Oct 2011, 15:47 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-431:
Good for you skop, you’re threatening to become more reasonable!
@ET.(ET.)-427:
Hehe, pedantic much?
9 Oct 2011, 15:48 pm
@ET.(ET.)-430:
wtf are u on about now, you daft ****?
cant even understand what u are saying most of the time.
you are one dom doos, you just dunno how dom.
9 Oct 2011, 15:51 pm
@ET.(ET.)-424: this cn’t is sitting up the Imperialists backside sucking off greenback imperialist dollars and he has the fckface audacity to call himself a commie.. piece of garbage skunk who is below human status should be put out its einardige misery before that pitiful self loathing misery affects all others it comes into contact with.. which is already too late…
9 Oct 2011, 15:52 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-418:
And how is my aphasic agraphia fellow human(I hope) doing on this fine Sunday when the world order in rugby union is being restored?
I note you have difficulty with applying capital letters and such like too as you attempt sentence structure.
9 Oct 2011, 15:53 pm
@Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-410:
Shock jock. He also wrote the articles about racist golf tournaments. try to come up with an article written by someone more credible.
9 Oct 2011, 15:53 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-431:
Hope you are right but i reckon this world cup is the ABS
They will smash the aussies based on their showing against the Boks
9 Oct 2011, 15:53 pm
@cab(cab)-434:
Yes that does confirm my claim of your being restricted in your cortical development.
9 Oct 2011, 15:56 pm
@ET.(ET.)-401: @ET.(ET.)-406:
Daar word altyd gepraat van swak verloorders.
Die mense wat so praat het seker nog nie van jou gehoor as jy “wen” nie.
9 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm
I sit here an emotionally broken man, I can blame Lawrence – I won’t, I can blame Smit and Spies, – I won’t , the performance today was a proud one , I choose to focus on that .
An era has come to an end, an era where PDEV initially promised so much and actually came pretty close to delivering quite a lot, the PDEV campaign was entertaining at times , bizarre at other times.
Good luck to him and the players who will be leaving , you all had special moments . We now start a new era, an era where if we select the right players and coach could be a golden one for SA .
Well done to Pocock for playing the ref and effectively winning the game for the Aussies.
I feel we will still see a few more upsets before the end of this WC, but nothing will make up for the way i feel right now !!!!!!
9 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm
@ET.(ET.)-439:
whatever u know about cortical development, or anything else, is just plain fkn dangerous.
your education is also subststandard, since its invariably the pedants who have a point to prove.
in short they try to hard – those that can, do, those that cant, teach.
9 Oct 2011, 15:58 pm
435:
Just clean you faecally messed bum as you use it far too often as your ‘mouth’.
DO not forget to empty your colostomy bag as it stinks in the company of others especially when you do not have a real ‘poopal’ but a surgically reconstructed ‘sham poopal’.
When are you leaving for the river Tiberius for good?
9 Oct 2011, 15:59 pm
The Boks land at OR Tambo at 16H15 on Monday.
9 Oct 2011, 16:03 pm
The day the Boks appoint Mitchell, a Kiwi, or Jones, an Aussie, as coach is the day I give up following international rugby. OK, the Welsh may have tried NZ coaches, even the Wallabies, but surely to god not SA? What that says is there’s no one in SA capable of coaching the Boks. What rubbish, SA coaches have been among the best from the year dot. It’s just a matter of picking the right one, and unfortunately last time they didn’t.
I’m a Kiwi and, frankly, if one of my countrymen became your coach I’d see it as a slap in the face to SA rugby. It would be disrespectful of 100 years of a proud (and winning) tradition. The idea is scandalous. Akin to removing the Springbok emblem. It’d be like making a Muslim the Pope!!!
Incidentally, I think this is a great forum and there are some extremely insightful posts here, particularly by S Africans, which I don’t get elsewhere. I read plenty but don’t comment often because there seems to be such extreme bitterness (hate?) expressed much of the time by NZers and S Africans.
We get along a lot better in real life (have met six or seven Boks fans during the World Cup and all said they were loving it here). Sure there has been banter but it’s been friendly and humorous, with respect on both sides. Life’s too short, rugby should pull us together rather than drag us apart. Look at soccer and its supporters. Who wants to end up like that nasty lot? Just saying.
9 Oct 2011, 16:04 pm
@cab(cab)-442:
Is that anger because of what UCT did to your pops too, relative to you?
Are you quite sure your have all the parts like the mesencephalon, metencephalon and telencephalon developed, as you grope in the utter darkness of those impaired recesses of what you call your ‘brain’?.
A trilogy at UCT.
9 Oct 2011, 16:05 pm
@ET.(ET.)-443:
I’m still here in the good Cape of Good hope
where the fck are YOU you miserable piece of half bred garbage fucked up scum .. Right UP the Imperialists BUM where little coolycreeping runtcunts the likes of you are most commonly found… pseudo half bred fucked up half arsed commie garbage filth scummy creep that you are
9 Oct 2011, 16:05 pm
@nama1(nama1)-444:
Gaan sing vir hulle jou liedtjie, ” Die Trane die rol vir jou Bokke “.
9 Oct 2011, 16:06 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-103:
I wish we didn’t have one of those
9 Oct 2011, 16:06 pm
@chch(chch)-437:
A pauper could say the wisest thing in human history and be ignored, while a president can memorise a speech and be quoted the world over. Credibilty has nothing to do with the matter, the article is full of truth. I don’t agree that we were robbed and it is over the top, but we were on the receiving end from Bryce. And (some) SA referees are better than anyone in australasia, most notably Joubert.
Nothing to do with anything, but australian commentators are something else. They sometimes make a dull game watchable and I miss the old cries of TTUUUUUNNNNNEEEE. The NZ commentators are too bitter to enjoy though, most notably Marshall.
9 Oct 2011, 16:09 pm
@Fumbler(Fumbler)-445:
You are top of the pops man .. you gotta excuse our inbred hatred its been inbred into the genetic DNA through generations and eons of racially bred hatred from mothers and fathers to sons and daughters for some time.. it may pass in due course.. meantime read and reason and learn from others misfortunes
9 Oct 2011, 16:09 pm
@Fumbler(Fumbler)-445:
lol, thats a good post too, but the cross-pollination of ideas from somone like mitchell might be astounding, he’ll also light a fire under their arse and demand results, which may or may not be a bad thing, mallet was a bit like that but he got some damn good results for a while until it all got a bit much, might not be bad to have mitchell for a year or two – they will learn so much – just look how the lions are playing – imagine what he could do with some power.
9 Oct 2011, 16:09 pm
447:
You really mean Rhodes’ Zoo on the slopes of the mountain, Joel? It is safe for you as there are no Great Whites(other than yourself) but there are ‘Bergies’ who would like to get you.
Did you enjoy your Yom Kippur yesterday, Joel?
9 Oct 2011, 16:11 pm
@ET.(ET.)-448:
Just do us all a favor and remove yourself from this site, nobody wants you here, in fact nobody wants you anywhere you poor excuse of a human being, don you All black jersey and scants and pull out your Richie poster and go do what you do best you w anker !!
9 Oct 2011, 16:12 pm
South African are traditionally ultra conservative even perhaps more conservative than the English and that has been almost our downfall.. to afraid to venture beyond the limitations of our conservative mindset and try that which is beyond the pales of the closed envelope of preconceived strategies and thinking…
Perhaps next coach will be brave enough and less tied to this sword of Damocles called the WC to try and foster a little lateral and adventurous thinking into his strategies.. and selection criteria .. and then who knows.. perhaps by next WC the sky could actually become the limit..
9 Oct 2011, 16:15 pm
452.cab
I reckon Mallet’s as good a coach as you’ll find on the planet. If I was
running SA rugby, I’d be offering him a shirtload of dosh to take the
Boks. Remember that run of wins he had, 15 or 16 in a row, maybe more?
Quality.
9 Oct 2011, 16:15 pm
@ET.(ET.)-446:
lol UCT, you and your big almunmi and alma maters, like any other where u just get spoonfed nonsense from some failure like yourself. and even there u are way outgunned, most of you doctors, especially the fake research ones without any responsiblity, are thicker than a sack of hammers and u at the bottom of the pile.
9 Oct 2011, 16:17 pm
I posted this famous description of Gladstone by Disraeli the other day, to describe another poster here. It would be far more accurately applied to our friend ET, though.
“A sophistical rhetorician, inebriated with the exuberance of his own verbosity, and gifted with an egotistical imagination that can at all times command an interminable and inconsistent series of arguments to malign an opponent and to glorify himself.”
9 Oct 2011, 16:17 pm
@Fumbler(Fumbler)-445: admit it, you really enjoyed listening to Divvy’s interviews … man he was good.
Today he said to some Kiwi this classic line about Plod, when questioned why Bissy is on the bench “if John was in your country he would be your no. 1 no. 2 too”
9 Oct 2011, 16:18 pm
@Fumbler(Fumbler)-456:
yes very good. dunno if he wants to do it again with the Boks tho. Takes years off their lives i reckon.
9 Oct 2011, 16:19 pm
Yom Kippur.. whats that coolycreeper? .. you up Rothschilds arsehole sucking off Greenspans greenback dollars like the good half bred half arsed capie commie creep that you are…. thats obviously why you know all about Yom Kippur no doubt
the war here is over.. poor commie creep up the Imperialists backside wanting to wage war against his erstwhile white oppressors all the way from the ivory towers of Philadelphia’s pseudo white intelligentsia’s stable… UP the white Imperialists bum.. waging wars of self loathing inferiority complexity… what a pseudo piece of trash heap hypocritical half bred cn’t you are…
9 Oct 2011, 16:21 pm
@cab(cab)-457:
Have you tried that on your pops too?
Is that the reason you were kicked out of the family home as you do not respect his accomplishments?
Please do understand that is just your Oedipus Complex acting up, ‘boytjie’.
Simply apologise to your dad and other family members you so insult and some order will be restored in you life and their love for you will flourish anew.
9 Oct 2011, 16:25 pm
459.RL
Brilliant. PDV did come out with some funny stuff and I will miss that but I think he had serious
limitations as a coach, so next season’s going to be very interesting for the Boks, re tactics, game-plan etc. Can’t wait.
9 Oct 2011, 16:26 pm
Still brawling gents?
Time to kick back and watch my Jamaican guy Chris Gayle hit sixes.
Yum.
9 Oct 2011, 16:28 pm
Australia 6 wins from last 7 games against the Boks – that is simply an amazing statistic
9 Oct 2011, 16:28 pm
@David(David)-458:
Do you have problems with understanding just your English words?
Not enough private schooling for you because there was no milk and honey for you and your family until you got to sunny S. Africa?
Don’t you just love W H O R E Street?
Highlight some of those common words you regard as verbose.
9 Oct 2011, 16:29 pm
His fave food, swordfish. His fave music, reggae. His fave ground, newlands nogal. His fave book, the Secret. His fave teammate, Marlon Samuel.
9 Oct 2011, 16:29 pm
@ET.(ET.)-462:
u more obsessed with pops at uct than anyone else. dunno who u got in mind, but he’s not who u think, both pops and gramps did there doctoring and played rugby there. no teachers. what accomplishments, u get paid to sit in front of a dolt and pass easy exams – its a joyride – u got thru them after all and now they define you.
9 Oct 2011, 16:30 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-429: I agree. PdV’s was pathetic from the word go.
We lost to Aus for the first time in 10 years at home and then last year we relinquished that record completely. Now SA is happy hunting ground for the Wobblies.
We narrowly won the BIL series when we should’ve whitewashed an average BIL squad. Look at the ABs in 2005. Completely destroyed them.
We lost to Scotland of all teams and nearly lost to Wales twice! Lost to Ireland too many times. Got humiliated by France.
We’ve watched world-class players like FdP, Habana, JPP and JdV go down the pan with PdV in charge. General ball skills have disappeared. And there is one, unwavering game plan that never, ever changes. We’ve become the most predictable team out there. PdV has been a shocking coach. He’s made a mockery of SA many times with his ridiculous press conferences.
9 Oct 2011, 16:30 pm
We just don’t have a choice.
We’ll have to adopt a more adventurous approach going forward. The rules force us to change our approach. We have the players in people like Lambie, Hougaard, JdJ, JPP, Aplon etc to play an expensive game. All that is lacking is somebody who can coach our players how to do it… and a patient support base for when it does not go our way in the beginning. (think 2008)
9 Oct 2011, 16:31 pm
Long tall drink of Jamaican rum punch met ys.
9 Oct 2011, 16:32 pm
@David(David)-458: pretty much spot on the button … in other words pseudo puffed up verbose grandiose pathetic self aggrandized piece of garbage self righteous feeble fucked up heinous garbage scum
9 Oct 2011, 16:34 pm
Lol skop I hope that not chris you talking about!
9 Oct 2011, 16:36 pm
@cab(cab)-468:
It adequately negates your immature notions and expressed jealousies, by much.
9 Oct 2011, 16:36 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-472:
I think Disraeli was a wee bit more eloquent, though.
9 Oct 2011, 16:37 pm
Paul Treu is not a bad call for next Bok coach. I do not want to see Coetzee there. I have my doubts about Rassie and someone said Meyer is not interested so what other options are there?
The deadwood needs to go: Spies, Habana, Matfield is too old, Rossouw, JdV, M Steyn, CJ, Chilliboy. FdP. I do not want to see nor hear of Smit anymore. That guy is a cnut who disgraced his country to appease his MASSIVE ego and his ***** envy.
9 Oct 2011, 16:37 pm
@ET.(ET.)-474:
but u always respond to them, which seems to be working so nicely.
ja and your anti-Bok button-pushing, but u must sluk your medicine deep domgat.
9 Oct 2011, 16:39 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-239: I agree with your sentiments fully!
9 Oct 2011, 16:40 pm
@David(David)-475:
Just a wee bit… unfortunately I never went to no finer English private finishing school so I just blurt out and spell out what absolute self aggrandized filthy heinous garbage scum actually looks like and sounds like .. dunno how to be eloquent.. so I just gotta keep on spitting it out as it painfully excruciatingly is..
9 Oct 2011, 16:42 pm
@Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-469:
“Lost to Ireland too many times. ”
We only played Ireland twice while PdV was coach.
Lost one (2009) and won the other (2010). Both away from home. No need to distort the truth.
Maybe you were thinking of the JW era.
9 Oct 2011, 16:44 pm
@Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-476:
I think Paul Treu would be good and I think he would be adventurous and brave
and he won’t have a WC winning team to weigh down his every motivation and strategic desire..
9 Oct 2011, 16:46 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-479:
BTW, where does ET get this Joel rubbish?
9 Oct 2011, 16:47 pm
@nama1(nama1)-251: That’s true Warren gatland is very astute! However, wales signed him up until next world cup. I think one has to go to NZ to find them, go to the source, and bring back a coach. If the AB’s don’t win this cup Steve Hansen will be available, as well as Ian Forster to handle the backline. Not a bad combo!
9 Oct 2011, 16:49 pm
@Die_Valk(Die_Valk)-450: so
9 Oct 2011, 16:49 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-481:
I think Treu has said he’d like to coach the 15 man game, but it’s a far different one to sevens. He’d need to get some experience there first, though, I think. One man I’d like to see involved as backline coach is Robbie Fleck. He did wonders for UCT and brings an attacking flair that’s been sorely missing.
9 Oct 2011, 16:51 pm
michael had a combo earlier which was right solomons, mitchell and meyer.
9 Oct 2011, 16:52 pm
@David(David)-482: I think he sees my sign on ID and thinks thats my name… like most other things he’s so far off the mark that’s why he’s still waging anti apartheid wars 20 years after the fact sitting up in Nixon country trying to act intelligent and politically enlightened due to his afflicted psyche not having any place or identification he can truly call home…
9 Oct 2011, 16:52 pm
This stat says why we are not in the semis.
Since the start of the 3N last year, we played 16 test matches against tier 1 rugby nations. (I discount the matches vs Nam, Fiji and Tonga)
We LOST 10.
5 vs Aus
4 vs AB
1 vs Scotland
9 Oct 2011, 16:54 pm
Tough luck to the Boks, they actually played very hard today, cant be too unhappy when they committed effort like that, out
9 Oct 2011, 16:55 pm
@cab(cab)-489:
Cheers Cab.
9 Oct 2011, 16:56 pm
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-282:
You still crying b1tch t1ts?
9 Oct 2011, 16:57 pm
I think you guys should hire Mitchell. That would be funny. No nonsense Boks with healing crystals.
9 Oct 2011, 16:58 pm
From my point of view PdV was not that bad as a coach.
I felt he negotiated the complexities fairly well and even improved in getting his thoughts across during press conferences.
His team lost today, but no one can say it’s through lack of effort. If I look at today’s game then everything went very well except the fact that they did not keep the scoreboard ticking.
But they played with passion and you could clearly see the plan; he went in with experience and sent the likes of Bismarck, Hougaard and Alberts in as impact players and gave them enough time.
The lingering question has to be: why could they not finish? I think a sport psychologist (Henning Gericke) would have helped in this regard. Not that I think they panicked but they needed to simulate in their heads how they would finish.
It would seem that that was the part they just could not deliver; they dominated but could not convert.
Again, we need to address the inability SA backlines have to manufacture tries, especially at the highest level.
Considering everything, I think PdV can walk away from the role with his head high. It’s a pity we lost today cause I think curve was still upwards and we would have been better next week and the week thereafter imo.
9 Oct 2011, 17:00 pm
I think Treu would be A OK.. with decent assistants in perhaps a Mitchel or a Meyer.. though Meyer is more of a DOR type manager than a coach.. Solomons is / was OK when he was with Mallet though I heard it was Solomons that pushed for the Skinstadt over Teichman issue .. and was also Solomons that was instrumental in firing Jake off Mallets team… but he could be good…
Naka is doing quite well with Free State lately and Venter seems a bit of a big head though he does have the experience now…
I wouldn’t go for a foreign coach keep it local and lekker.. that way we can always claim we did it for ourselves..
I’m not a Coetsee fan .. and Rassie is just too maverick for the sake of it..
this whole Schalk to first receiver garbage is a Rassie ploy and it sucks big time and fails…
9 Oct 2011, 17:00 pm
@chch(chch)-492:
I see both Slade and Mils are out, injured. Luckily you’ve got two better replacements, if Dagg is fit. Mils is a legend and certainly didn’t look past it, but Dagg is the rising one, in my opinion.
9 Oct 2011, 17:01 pm
@Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-476:
Treu needs to prove himself in the 15 men code first.
He can start as understudy for Solomons in PE and take over as head coach in 2/3 year’s time to prove himself. Only then can he apply for the position as Bok coach.
9 Oct 2011, 17:06 pm
I would use Carel Dup as back line coach with either Proudfoot or Mitchel as forwards coach and maybe Treu as head coach..
Maybe Meyer or Solomons as techie director.. unless they wanna keep Rassie and Nienaber on..
I reckon it could work..
PdV did OK.. this WC was definitely not a gift in the park like last one where we played nobody of consequence.. we had to negotiate top teams like fired Wales, Samoa and Aussie who we actually had the better of but just failed at the final hurdle.. close but no cigar.. they can all hold their heads up pretty high..
9 Oct 2011, 17:07 pm
also out
so long folks
9 Oct 2011, 17:08 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-494:
I reckon Solomons past mistakes should be seen as just that. People do grow and learn, so let’s put it down to experience. Unfortunately we seem to assume coaches don’t grow once they’ve been tried once.
9 Oct 2011, 17:28 pm
BRENDAN VENTER!
9 Oct 2011, 17:31 pm
@Sheriff(Sheriff)-493:
We got turned over in their 22 because a ref allowed hands in the ruck and bodies lying on the ball.
Thats why we didnt score
Should have gone for more drop kicks!!
9 Oct 2011, 17:31 pm
@David(David)-485: Yep. Attacking was sorley missing from the Stormers backline too.
9 Oct 2011, 17:33 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-501:
And yes PDV did mostly the right thing as coach.
We should have won today. We didnt tick over points because the ref refused to blow penalties for infridgements as ruck time.
We also didnt have an 2007 Habana
9 Oct 2011, 17:37 pm
If we want a coach with clear insight, reasoning, awareness and an ability to communicate clearly with the press:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=3edrWmUM8KU
And also a COMEDY GENIUS, not afraid to stand up for what he believes in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgchHlaSQE
Look no further.
9 Oct 2011, 17:37 pm
@David(David)-482:
Is your “rubbish” incorrectly applied in this instance?
Go back to, and look at, your specific post 482 and it stares you in the face.
Are you only observant for the $ figures, capitalist? Is that “rubbish” too?
9 Oct 2011, 17:37 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-494:
You’re an idiot.
You hate JW who took SA from nothing to WC glory but you like PDV who did decently with a WC team?
Is it because he is Black? Pretty sure it is.
Thought PDiv did fine, had some awesome wins under him and he made mosty thright choices.
But dont lambast JW and like PDiv because the gameplan was similar the team similar – pretty similar except Jake knew more about the technical side of rugby than PDiv.
9 Oct 2011, 17:47 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-502:
I remember what McKenzie said after his first season with the Reds, when they scored a lot but conceded many more. He reckoned he wasn’t too worried and wouldn’t change their attacking game as all that was needed was for the players to attack in a way that could be defended if it broke down. He believed that it just needed a change in the pattern of the attack.
Our problem, I think, is that our Boks have concentrated on defence to such an extent that they’re more concerned with maintaining their defensive lines and have lost the flexibility to create an instinctive attacking strategy. Exactly the opposite of the Reds.
9 Oct 2011, 17:47 pm
Where is contortionista today
Thought he would be crowing here too?
9 Oct 2011, 17:48 pm
i dont feel so good.
had to lie down after the game and just woke up a short while ago.
am listless, have no apetite and an awful headache…i think i may need to see a doctor in the morning.
i just fell empty right now…
9 Oct 2011, 17:50 pm
@509
Cheer up we gave good account of ourselves in the end.
9 Oct 2011, 17:51 pm
Give this man the job now.
From the Telegraph website,, 21.09.11:
Brendan Venter: Mike Tindall personifies everything that is wrong with England’s attack at Rugby World Cup
England are struggling to break down the best defences in the world due to a lack of explosive game-breakers in key attacking positions.
By Brendan Venter7:15AM BST 21 Sep 2011
They do not have players who are regularly getting them over the gain line and, as a result, their attacking output at the World Cup against the best teams in Test rugby is slow, predictable and very easy to defend.
England badly need strike runners who can get them over that advantage line and provide them with momentum so the next phase can be executed with pace. Once you are over the gain line at pace, the opposition defence doesn’t have enough time to organise itself and you have the upper hand in attack.
For this attacking approach to work you need an inside centre who is a dynamic ball-carrier, like Wales’s Jamie Roberts, but England have chosen to go with Mike Tindall, who has none of this game-breaking ability.
He is the personification of everything that is wrong with England’s attack.
He poses no threat with the ball in hand, he doesn’t have a passing game and he has lost so much of the pace he used to have.
Unfortunately for Martin Johnson and England’s attack coach, Brian Smith, Tindall can no longer be relied upon to break through the first line of defence with speed and purpose. This is a crying shame for England because they have some very special outside backs at their disposal.
If Tindall were punching holes through the middle then England would have quick, front-foot ball that they could use to unleash the likes of Manu Tuilagi, Chris Ashton and Ben Foden. But he’s not, so these players are being starved of any decent attacking ball.
There is very little to differentiate between the best teams in Test rugby. They are all highly motivated and they all have tidy set-pieces and strong defences. What makes the difference is explosive players who can beat their opposite number. When I look at the England team, I don’t see a lot of them.
This is why I think they made a mistake with their 30-man squad because there isn’t really a Plan B in attack. Shontayne Hape, the only real alternative to Tindall, is also fairly sluggish and against the meanest defences in world rugby he lacks the vigour with the ball in hand needed to truly bother his opposite man.
England may have to resort to selecting Jonny Wilkinson and Toby Flood at fly-half and inside centre, and if I was in Johnson’s boots I would genuinely consider it. Flood is a beautiful ball-carrier and looked threatening at times against Georgia. If you combine him with Wilkinson, England would have a much better passing game in those key positions.
Johnson and Smith actually left behind their two best options at inside centre. Riki Flutey – who narrowly missed out on selection having played against Wales in a warm-up match – and Brad Barritt, who plays for my club Saracens.
Flutey offers more than just a bludgeon. He has quick feet and runs beautiful lines off his fly-half. Barritt is a superb all-round player who has the perfect balance of penetrative running, soft hands and solid defence. I have played in two World Cups at centre and I would much rather defend against Tindall or Hape than against Flutey or Barritt.
Yet England may have watched Ireland’s victory over Australia, where no tries were scored, and taken heart from the fact that the regular plot of do-or-die World Cup games is still being played out. In these tight fixtures, normally at the knockout stages, teams are more pressurised, they play less off the cuff and they certainly don’t play multi-phase rugby.
When the stakes are high the defences are infinitely better. So the reality is that there are not lot of tries scored unless there is a major mismatch between the two sides. That will suit England.
It is in these situations that you need your team to have rock-solid basics at the expense of spectacular running rugby. England may argue that they have a good set-piece, a strong scrum and a defence that has only been breached once.
And, given that knockout games are rarely about the side that
scores the most tries, do they actually have a chance of winning a World Cup playing the way they are now?
In 2007, England’s attack was ponderous almost to the point of being non-existent. But they had one of the best set-pieces in the tournament, a defence they could rely on and the kicking game of Wilkinson.
If all the big games at this World Cup are going to be played out in the manner of Ireland’s win in Auckland, then England won’t care about their attacking game.
9 Oct 2011, 17:51 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-508: he was, a little earlier.
9 Oct 2011, 17:52 pm
Damn chris ain’t batting yet.
But watching him field is just as good
9 Oct 2011, 17:52 pm
“SA’s Jamie Roberts” to get over the advantage line: F. Steyn
We are half way there.
9 Oct 2011, 17:54 pm
Tindall is England’s Spies
9 Oct 2011, 17:55 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-510:
thanks dawn.
i know they gave everything but they were cheated too, its just not fair.
i thought i hardened up to the way the world is a long, long time ago but i’ve just learned all from over again that life is both cruel and beautiful at the same time…
9 Oct 2011, 17:58 pm
in what sense?
9 Oct 2011, 17:59 pm
@ET.(ET.)-505:
$s, capitalist, what on earth are you referring to? Or are these just labels that are an essential part of your lexicon of generalised accusations?
9 Oct 2011, 17:59 pm
No matter what gets thrown at us
No matter how we brawl amongst ourselves
The team of millions remains the team of millions!
Fridays are special here when everybodyn I mean EVERYBODY no matter colour creed or status in life, wore their jerseys to work, fixed their flags to their cars.
Bowed, but not beaten.
9 Oct 2011, 18:01 pm
@once more unto the breach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-516:
Mate I have been feeling like that every single international match we have lost over the past 18 months. This is just one more loss to me. We probably would have lost to AB’s anyway.
9 Oct 2011, 18:02 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-519:
Well said Dawn… I wore my green with pride…and so did most South Africans
9 Oct 2011, 18:02 pm
And you can all bank that post!
Fridays is rugby party day when speakers were set up outside office buildings at lunchtime and people let rip to the music in their jerseys.
Long may it continue, our support for this stunning game. I just wish those guys could’ve seen it!
9 Oct 2011, 18:12 pm
@Mike H(Mike H)-506:
You the f’ng idiot you stupid dumb fck moron
JW was the most limited coach going who would NEVER have beaten this Aussie team in a month of Sundays.. same as he was whacked 49-0 by their counterparts 5 years ago, and annihilated by NZ 7 times out of 9 and by some record margins at home…
Plus he was so far out his depth he had to go crying to an Arsetralian to save his pitiful forlorn hopeless pathetic white arse in order to be even slightly competitive…at a WC where he met NOBODY rated higher than rank 6 which was Argentina who Never came anywhere close to beating Boks EVER..
JW would Never have beaten either the same Wales side or Samoan side we beat this WC .. his closest games in that nonentity gimme WC of 4 years ago were against NOBODIES Fiji and Tonga
He would have been hammered this WC by either of the teams we beat this time and not made the final.. the Bok performances this WC were far better than anything JW ever showed .. all he ever did right was beat a dispirited England team 36-0 and then beat them again by 5 penalty kicks to 2 in the final…
JW is / was an ultimate f’ng doos and you even a bigger one for thinking the sun shines out his self aggrandized feeble pathetic arse…
Boks played better today than they ever played under White .. White would never have won a proper WC where we had to play the best or even the 2nd or 3rd or 4th best.. the last one simply deteriorated into a useless kicking contest between 4th rank team (Boks) and 7th rank team (England) to secure the overrated accolades which you still suck up to like the pathetic moronic idiot you are… dumb delirious twatassed idiotic doos…
9 Oct 2011, 18:16 pm
just please get the right coach going forward…..and FFS no more promises made in trhe heat of the night to anyone……..please please farken please…..merit and form…merit and form…merit and form…….no favorites again….
9 Oct 2011, 18:16 pm
@ET.(ET.)-424: ET, you are a ******. It is because of you and the rest of the unwashed that South African rugby will be mediocre for the rest of days. PDV was a racist appointment because he was appointed because of his skin colour and not because his ability. If we had Heyneke Meyer we would have been world champions in 2011. You lot can’t get anything right without constant white supervision.
9 Oct 2011, 18:17 pm
ET, maybe you did not get that, I said you are a B A B O O N
9 Oct 2011, 18:19 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-520:
i know bill, i know…it still hurts though and yes, the referee gods would probably have smiled on the all blacks next weekend if they hadn’t smiled on the wallabies today.
we are blessed with players, i just hope we get the right coach going forward. my desire for the next four years is to turn the winning percentage against the all blacks around as well as to win the next world cup.
go bokke!..
@Dawn(Dawn)-519:
@Dawn(Dawn)-522:
thanks dawn, for reminiding me of that. you are right, we’ll always be proud supporters no matter what.
i hope the team gets a good welcome on their homecoming.
9 Oct 2011, 18:23 pm
@PassTheBall(PassTheBall)-525:
how does behaving in a racist manner make you any better than him.
no sir, you are in fact the b a b o o n.
9 Oct 2011, 18:24 pm
@PassTheBall(PassTheBall)-525: you don’t sound any different to ET, actually.
9 Oct 2011, 18:32 pm
Still struggling to get over this.
In a way it’s cruel justice as for the past 4 years we played **** for 3 of them. Then in the WC we get our act together and dominate the Aussies but still lose.
Hopefully the next coach will not ever say ‘judge me at the WC’. We as fans want consistent excellence year after year. And we need to see the WC for what it is: A special competition with high drama, jubilation and heartbreak due to the knock-out nature thereof. But it should not be the be-all and end-all altar on which everything else is sacrificed.
Get an day where its just not your day compounded by a pathethic ref and that’s it. Ask the AB fans, today we got a taste of what they experienced. Even if they don’t win this WC at least they have a couple more 3N titles under the belts and came back unbeaten from the NH tours.
We should have done better with the players we had.
9 Oct 2011, 18:32 pm
PdV was out of his depth.. the job was too big for him in the end unfortunately.. even so the team gave a good account of themselves till the death and only just got beaten by a very spirited Australian team who were given a little too much leeway at the breakdown…
Sometimes life can seem cruel when so much effort goes unrewarded but every Bok that put their body and heart on the line played an immense game that simply was not going to go their way.. such are the so called vacillations of life … what we wish for so ardently is not always the way things gonna turn out to be .. ask AB’s they know all about it.. and ultimately Boks were prepared but not quite prepared enough .. and if they were to have won under the wrong circumstances it was not in the long term interest of all those taking part in the pantomime…
Also incorrect policy and selections hampered our overall strategy …we didn’t select purely on merit and prestige and other criteria came into play … some schmucks like White might be preening themselves with self back slap pride that this Bok team lost, but they wouldn’t have fared any better as their own results against such competition proved only too well during their tenure..
9 Oct 2011, 18:32 pm
The next SA coach must have the vision to develop our backs. We have world class forwards but our back line although good is not up to the mark when compared to the likes of the All Blacks and Wallabies who seem to be run better lines and possess superior vision and skills in this area. Our game is now so focused on and setup for the kicking and crash ball game that we found it hard to break through the Wallabies today even with 76% territorial advantage and 66% of the possession. With this dominance Bryce Lawrence’s poor refereeing should merely have been a discussion point after a Bok win and not the centre of attention following a loss. We simply didn’t take our chances. In the first half our backs had 2 or 3 changes out wide and the ball never got through the hands quick enough and with enough precision. At this level those mistakes are very costly as we now feel burgled by the Wallabies and the Ref. We lacked X factor…we won the contest but lost the prize.
PDV thanks for all your hard work, your loyalty and sacrifice. Jon Smit it’s been an honour watching you play and lead our Boys in the way you have. You have been a great servant and ambassador to South Africa. A true inspiration we salute you!
9 Oct 2011, 18:37 pm
@andregunter(andregunter)-532: I don’t think D*ck Muir added any value whatsoever as backs coach.
Why they took him after his terrible stint at the Lions, is anybody’s guess.
The man is useless. Just to confirm, has he handed in his resignation too? If not, he needs to be fired immediately.
9 Oct 2011, 18:48 pm
Its not the back line players that are at fault it is the strategy deployed by the brains trust which is traditional 10 man SA rugby
You can actually blame Smit and FdP to extent for forcing and fostering this game style for the past 4 years because this is what they learned to be successful under their previous stint as the so called generals of the team…
Boks have been playing a style they felt comfortable with which is not in sinc with the current laws of the game.. and also we have adopted a style where we load the back line with forwards such as Burger, Matfield and Roussow to carry it up and be extra link players.. All they effectively do is slow it all down and therefore zero back line penetration..
Blame Rassie for forwards in the back line this is his strategy.. Burger should never be first receiver.. then backs could at least hopefully get some quick ball and do some damage running at opposition..
Wings never saw the ball because it always dies with one or other forward.. mostly Burger, carrying it up in the back line.. a stupid dumb strategy..
9 Oct 2011, 18:48 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-531:
thanks skop,
that must be the nicest thing i’ve ever heard you say before, and the nicest way i’ve ever seen you write it.
we certainly do have the players and the spirit, i just hope (like you and everyone else i’m sure) that we get the right coach going forward. a man who will keep everything that is good about springbok rugby but equip them with the tools for playing our style of rugby in a 21st century environment.
we need to peg the all blacks win ration back and win the next world cup.
finger crossed…
9 Oct 2011, 18:49 pm
PDV can leave with his head held high.
9 Oct 2011, 18:50 pm
Old Eagle-Eye Lawrence has reffed the Sharks to 3 wins in 9 games between 2006 and 2011, with a couple of real howlers in there.
This in a period when the Sharks have won 63% of their games – that’s closer to 6 out of 9 – so Lawrence’s record at the helm is an abnormality.
So I’m really not surprised at all that Eagle-Eye Lawrence has sparked a bit of controversy with his reffing display today (or lack of it).
Still, the Bokke should have done more with all the possession and territory to negate the ref’s influence. It was the lack of penetration or creativity amongst the backs which did them in, not Lawrence.
9 Oct 2011, 18:51 pm
the way we played i am not ashamed to be a springbok supporter. All i want now is dominance year in and year out with the springboks.
9 Oct 2011, 18:52 pm
cant wait for the super14.
9 Oct 2011, 18:53 pm
Ryan Vrede writes k a k twice in one day. Heyneke Meyer did not say that he will not apply for the Bok post. I saw a tv interview recently where he said even though he signed a contract with the Bulls, he could break it if he got the Bok coaching job.
Two guy that have said in no uncertain terms that they will never want to to be the Bok coach in the future are Nick Mallett and Brendan Venter.
That leaves the top candidates as Heyneke Meyer, Rassie Erasmus, John Mitchell, **** Muir, Dawie Theron,John Plumtree and Alastair Coetzee. Would be good if Ewan McKenzie would apply too.
9 Oct 2011, 18:53 pm
gio is way better than habana.
9 Oct 2011, 18:53 pm
@Wezwp(Wezwp)-538: yes, and in a way, if it took a quarter final exit to drum that message in, then good.
9 Oct 2011, 18:54 pm
@Wezwp(Wezwp)-539: it’s Super 15 now and actually, I’m not really looking that forward to it for a change. Can’t stand the new format and local conferences (Currie Cup conference).
9 Oct 2011, 18:55 pm
@daydreamer(daydreamer)-540: seriously, has Mallet and Venter said they will not take the job?
9 Oct 2011, 18:57 pm
Chris gayle takes a sexy walk due to a bad LBW decision
9 Oct 2011, 18:59 pm
Bryce Lawrence will not get past customs at OR Tambo
9 Oct 2011, 19:00 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-519:
@Dawn(Dawn)-522:
excellent posts dawnie…
that’s keeping it real….
thank you
9 Oct 2011, 19:00 pm
Thanx PDV!!!!!Goodbye you took a Champion team an did your utmost best to turn us into a bunch of Chumps with proper coaching we would’ve swept Australia off the park today……….Thanx for 2009!!!2008,2010,2011 NO COMMENT
9 Oct 2011, 19:01 pm
Bryce Lawrence will not step onto any SA stadium field unscathed.
9 Oct 2011, 19:03 pm
So my Saffa chums, your team are on their way home too.
9 Oct 2011, 19:04 pm
Bryce is a marked man, we have Pieter Van Zyl.
9 Oct 2011, 19:04 pm
@Wezwp(Wezwp)-541:
Yip Gio should have been brought on for Habana and Hougaard should have gone to scrummy and I think we might have seen some action and fireworks and could have taken the game from Wallabies..
Pity they never used Aplon or De Jongh except vs Namibia
9 Oct 2011, 19:04 pm
Dankie, dankie!
9 Oct 2011, 19:05 pm
Now I will shout for Wales.
How so many of you can call for the cheese eating surrender mon k e y s if absolutley beyond me!
9 Oct 2011, 19:05 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-553:
Blimey, you are tri-lingual !
9 Oct 2011, 19:05 pm
It’s France for me now.
Can’t stand Wales.
9 Oct 2011, 19:07 pm
In order of dislike the most:
1. Australia
2. England
3. Wales
4. NZ
5. Ireland
6. France
7. Scotland
How is it for you?
9 Oct 2011, 19:07 pm
Come, Australia. Come play cricket here on Thursday.
We be waiting mon.
9 Oct 2011, 19:08 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-544:
i dont want mallet anywhere near the boks and venter..well, he hasn’t really shaken the world with his coaching has he (and by that i mean winning big competitions, winning then consistently and building a legacy).
same for mitchell (please stay the ffuck away from the boks).
meyer, rassie, nienaber, ac (as an assistant only) plus a few others are my preferred candidates.
9 Oct 2011, 19:10 pm
Bryce Lawrence will need a task force when he comes for S15.
9 Oct 2011, 19:11 pm
@once more unto the breach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-559: I really just don’t see SA improving with any of Meyer (outdated? Too much forward emphasis?), Rassie (not a head coach?) and Coetsee (Reds and Crusaders overcame the Stormers with worrying ease).
Think we need to think out of the box a bit.
9 Oct 2011, 19:11 pm
2 finalists last time round 4th and 7th rank teams are both home now
same 4 teams that contested semis in 87 are contesting it again 24 years later on same fields… could be a repeat of history with France / NZ in final..
I’m backing a new winner this time.. France or Wales to take Aussie in final
9 Oct 2011, 19:12 pm
The BOKS gonna play in the rest of the Currie CUP?????
9 Oct 2011, 19:12 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-562: I honestly can’t see NZ losing.
9 Oct 2011, 19:14 pm
Big Match Temperament, try saying that without choking !!
9 Oct 2011, 19:19 pm
@vindicated(vindicated)-565: You got lucky you just don’t wanna admit it
its still get the Yarpie syndrome between Paddy ‘O and his bumchum Brycie
9 Oct 2011, 19:19 pm
NZ will punish Aus at Eden Park, no problems… i’m going to go with a NZ vs Wales final, don’t really mind who wins, but it will almost definitely be NZ
9 Oct 2011, 19:19 pm
Nou ja look who crawled out of the woodwork!
9 Oct 2011, 19:20 pm
Vindicated you yellow aus you!
9 Oct 2011, 19:21 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-561:
as long as you put mitchell, mallet, plumtree and venter in the box too then you are welcome to outside of it all you want.
9 Oct 2011, 19:22 pm
think outside of it
9 Oct 2011, 19:22 pm
@vindicated(vindicated)-565: Australia lost in the quarters in 2007…
Oops.
9 Oct 2011, 19:22 pm
All you bloggers who may have missed it.
Don’t be hard on Poppa, he lost his mom on October 3.
9 Oct 2011, 19:23 pm
@once more unto the breach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-570: Nope, never mentioned Plumtree. He is not good enough.
Mallet, Mitchell and Venter would appear to be.
9 Oct 2011, 19:25 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-564:
NZ had an easy ride like we had last time.. they met nobody so far .. except weak France in pools like we got a weak England last time…
Aussie have had two nail biters so they will be more hardened but also more battered and bruised by the encounter today…
I reckon on the day Wales can take either these teams .. I doubt France produce another big game like yesterday..
9 Oct 2011, 19:26 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-573: tell him sorry from me..
9 Oct 2011, 19:27 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-557:
1.France
2.France
3.France
Thats my dislike list!!
9 Oct 2011, 19:27 pm
Bryce Lawrence will be needing bullet proof vest.
9 Oct 2011, 19:28 pm
So 2 further take-aways from the RWC 2011:
Kiwi refs are not up to standard; Bryce Lawrence again demonstrated to us just how incompetent he is yet Paddy O’Brien is in charge of IRB refs?!
However, when it comes to coaching they are setting the standard!
It should not be forgotten that 3 of the final 4 coaches in RWC 2011 are Kiwis.
Also in domestic situation John Mitchell and Plumtree leading the way!
South African refs again leading the way…
I would honestly look to get Kiwi/ Aus backline coach for SA; we just dont seem to understand how to attack and for decades now have been below ave to average; we must develop the ability to strike with pace when the opportunity presents itself
Look how Carlos and Mitch are unlocking the Lions backline; we have to get smarter and more skilful; that is what was lacking today – we create the attack but not at pace ( ie with the forwards) which allows the opposition time to regroup
It’s a pity that Bryce saw the forward pass to Lambie – you would expect him to miss it as he missed so many other things; that try would have sparked the Boks; or if FdP scored that try
But that’s water under the bridge
9 Oct 2011, 19:32 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-578: why, it’s not his fault that he is kak.
9 Oct 2011, 19:32 pm
Bryce. I have been taking sniper lessons.
WPTID is my spotter.
9 Oct 2011, 19:33 pm
I’m losing my 16 year old border collie today.. she’s busy dying
most beautiful dog I ever known
she got more qualities than most humans and she going home… perhaps tonight .. I hope for her sake..
such be life … it ain’t a picnic for long and has as much pleasure as it has pain
In fact I reckon its a hell of a thing for any creature to have to endure between birth and death fraught with pleasure and pain and everyone trying to negotiate how to attract the one and avoid the other..
Life is a frightening experience as death is…
9 Oct 2011, 19:34 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-573:
shame, my condolences.
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-574:
in the box or outside the box?
if they are being considered for job then i’m just going to say; ffuck me!
this country is not serious about its rugby anymore.
9 Oct 2011, 19:41 pm
@once more unto the breach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-583: that’s what I think about Meyer, Erasmus and Coetsee.
9 Oct 2011, 19:41 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-582:
Skop, they all have to leave us too soon.
You know that 16 in a fantastic age for a Border Collie so you must have given her a good quality of life.
At least you can say goodbye to her and thank her for the memories.
9 Oct 2011, 19:41 pm
Condolences to Poppa.
And skop, sorry to hear about the collie.
9 Oct 2011, 19:47 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-582: Skop I feel for you. I have had border collies all my life and I know, they are the most wonderful creatures imaginable. For me, far preferable to any human beings I have ever known.
9 Oct 2011, 19:50 pm
ja sorry about your collie skop.
they really can be the most loyal of friends/companions.
goodnight and cheers all…
@carol(carol)-577:
france will win or lose to tha all blacks in the final.
9 Oct 2011, 19:50 pm
@carol(carol)-585: yeah except last 2 years of her life have been hard for her she had it tough, she been an absolute angel and now she going home .. I hope she goes soon she suffered enough .. its hard to give up life both for those leaving as it is for those staying behind..
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-586: thanks
9 Oct 2011, 19:52 pm
@oscarthedawg(oscarthedawg)-587: for sure most loyal beautiful and intelligent companions any person can have
@once more unto the breach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-588: cheers.
9 Oct 2011, 19:53 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-584:
well, i guess saru will need either a big, big box or a small one…
either way i already feel concerned.
9 Oct 2011, 19:56 pm
yeses, izinja!
9 Oct 2011, 19:58 pm
I think the discussion should be whether Allister Coetzee is ready to lead the Boks, because I think he is certainly in the running.
Now he is more eloquent than PdV but I’m not sure whether Allister will take us to the next level.
I think he has done well in Super Rugby and domestic competitions; I basically wrote him off 2 years ago.
The reality is that Boks could have a 80% win ratio is properly coached but for decades now we average out on 60-65%
So who else:
* Coetzee – says all the right things but not so sure; my primary concern is that he is too much of a marketer- always wants to put a positive spin on something
* Rassie – probably the one guy with enough innovation or x-factor to do the job
* Meyer – not interested
* Mallett – has been coached and unlikely that he will get it again
* Solomons – has not done enough to my mind to get back in contention
So the question arise: what about a coach from another country? Perhaps a Kiwi but who?
I dont get the impression from John Mitchell that he will consider applying for the Bok coach job eventhough I rate him as one of the best technically; I thionk he is better than Plum
9 Oct 2011, 20:00 pm
another stat to chill the blood of New Zealanders waiting for 24 years of pain to end: every team that has beaten the defending champions has gone on to win the tournament.
Australia in 1991, South Africa in ’95, Australia in ’99, England in ’03 and South Africa four years ago; all of them beat the world champions en route to the title.
9 Oct 2011, 20:04 pm
Should have kept Jake White.
9 Oct 2011, 20:06 pm
Ag nee man Skop. So sorry to hear that.
9 Oct 2011, 20:07 pm
How does everyone feel about John Mitchell potentially taking over? Plumtree must not come anywhere near the Boks. He is not up to standard. The same persistent skop en jag game plan will be kept if Plumtree was to be given it. The same goes for Coetzee and Rassie. I’m not convinced Rassie is a believer in playing expansively. We need a new coach that is willing to be bold and shake things up as well as introducing new dynamic blood in the same form as players like Hougaard and Bismack and is not afraid to BLOOD them instead of playing them off the bench for 15 games or more! 5 games off the bench should be enough for up-and-coming players! If they still can’t perform after that then they shouldn’t be there. Hougaard has continuously proved himself and made things happen in the precious little time he has had on the field. He is a gamebreaker much like Habana used to be.
We need a backline full of dynamic gamebreakers. A no.8 that blends power and athleticism ala Kaino. Frans Steyn must be picked at 12. Fourie is still good. Habana needs to go. JPP I have lost patience with. Spies must become a winger or just fark off. He is totally ineffective as a no.8. Every other team has a pulverising 8th man and we just have a friggin body builder there.
Hougaard, Lambie, Bismarck, Brussouw, Alberts, Steenkamp, Beast, Frans Steyn and Fourie make the core of the new team for now in my opinion. Bekker should also be there provided he gets back to form and we need to look for a new enforcer to replace Bakkies. Juan Smith’s career is probably over. Cruel fate would have Smith and not Smit getting injured. Priority should be identifying a new 9 and 10 combo that will actually get the backline moving and a backline with genuine pace.
There needs to be thorough planning done by the new coach. The next 2 years should be spent building a new core team. A better, more effective game plan, coaching a much higher level of ball skills. Then the following 2 years needs to be spent on planning for the next RWC. Nailing down that core team, the effective combos, identifying adequate injury cover and at the same time, much like GH does, looking for opportunities to bring new players through, keeping a constant supply of youth and experience in the squad. Look at Wales, they’ve got a their experienced core but the majority are young, gifted players, and that’s why they are heading into the semis and we are going home.
Fck PdV! He made a mockery of his country as did John Sh.1t!
9 Oct 2011, 20:13 pm
Somwhere out there is a communicaton from that scumbag Paddy o’ Brien that goes something like this – ”let’s get those yarpies”. To those of you around at the time – was it late nineties?, you will know what I mean.
I’ve always wondered why that incident was glossed over?
9 Oct 2011, 20:15 pm
@SHARKattack(mabu)-594: Not convinced. How about this one, since 1995 the next champion was losing quarterfinalist.
1995 – Aus, 1999 – England, 2003 – SA, 2007 – NZ.
Or how about that one.
1987 SF – NZ, Aus, Fra, Wal. NZ won.
2011 SF – NZ, Aus, Fra, Wal.
9 Oct 2011, 20:23 pm
We should get a Coaching Academy set up, we need better coaches with specialised skills
So Braam got his customer to kick better,good on you Braam, you still remain a slow center and anone dimensional flyhalf
9 Oct 2011, 20:23 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-596: Ta Dawnie .. she been an angel .. time for her to go home.. or back for a better chance
9 Oct 2011, 20:23 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-564: Spooner. I think Wales have a very real shot. They are very fit, very physical, great defensive pattern, good kicking, no real positional weaknesses.
And they are coached by a Kiwi. 3 of 4 semi-finalists are coached by Kiwis – coincidence.
I think not.
I said John Mitchell should have replaced Jake White, I still think that.
I hope Gary Gold coaches the Benoni Girls C team, Muir the Helpmekaar U/8′s and PdV can just bugger off for good.
9 Oct 2011, 20:24 pm
@Nils(Nils)-599: this stat can also be true for the Wallabies: 1995 – Aus, 1999 – England, 2003 – SA, 2007 – NZ and Aus
9 Oct 2011, 20:25 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-582: 16 is a good run Skops. You were blessed with that.
Sorry to hear that.
9 Oct 2011, 20:27 pm
Good riddance
to bad rubbish
PDV
Smitty
Fok julle
9 Oct 2011, 20:28 pm
@Boksarenumber3(Boksarenumber1)-605: nice and classy.
9 Oct 2011, 20:29 pm
F#*% OFF Krusty Burger, you arrogant, ignorant, disgusting piece of T’URD.
9 Oct 2011, 20:29 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-607: ?
9 Oct 2011, 20:30 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-606:
Yes PDV is a classy moron
9 Oct 2011, 20:32 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-607: nice and classy.
Oh, that’s expected from a troll.
B.Troll (honours) from the University of Bul lshit and Lies.
Besides, why are you so “worked up” over the (ex) South African coach? Shouldn’t you be more worried about your semi against Australia?
Are you obsessed with South African rugby?
9 Oct 2011, 20:35 pm
Aussies must beat the ABs
That would be the cream on top of the cake
9 Oct 2011, 20:40 pm
Well, I guess if I want any team to win, it’s France.
But jeez, I won’t be willing any team on if you know what I mean.
Oh well, it kinda sucks being out, not nearly as interesting.
Later folks.
9 Oct 2011, 20:42 pm
Peter de Silliers — you are one of the many weakest links. Aaaagh yaaaa!
9 Oct 2011, 20:42 pm
who is on the injury list for the ABs and will recover by next week?
9 Oct 2011, 20:45 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-608:
I thought Boks were superb, by far the better team.
however
Cant stand Krusty. Goes out of his way to offend. Justice4; “conspiracy between IRB & referees”; “dont respect Haka”.
He acted, throughout his tenure, as if he was untouchable because he knew he was. Good riddance.
Great match nonetheless, awesome in fact.
9 Oct 2011, 20:46 pm
@SHARKattack(mabu)-603: Yes, it can be. Time will tell.
Unless more crucial injuries, I’d still say Blacks.
No, I will say that anyway. 8)
9 Oct 2011, 20:46 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-610:
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ burrrrrrrrrrrrp ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
9 Oct 2011, 20:48 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-613: is your team going to win next weekend? with all the injuries to key players. this must have disorientated your structures as a result an cloud of instability hovers over the ABs for this coming semi final.
9 Oct 2011, 20:54 pm
What is all this contortionista swearing!
9 Oct 2011, 20:57 pm
There’s enough skiet en donner on MNet!
9 Oct 2011, 21:19 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-615: I agree a total moron.
9 Oct 2011, 21:19 pm
@JL1(JL1)-600: and Alan Donald got his bowlers to knock us out at the world cup…..
9 Oct 2011, 21:25 pm
Anyhoo he’s gone now.
9 Oct 2011, 21:26 pm
Stallone’s plastic surgery didn’t work out too well
9 Oct 2011, 21:43 pm
Skop if your little companion is still alive in the morning, you need 2 take her 2 vet and she will get a injection into the vein of her front foot and she will gently go 2 sleep with in seconds. You only know me from a rugby perspective, but believe animals are my forte, its what i do every day. If she is suffering this is the kindest thing u can do 4 her.
9 Oct 2011, 21:56 pm
That must be such a difficult decision to make.
9 Oct 2011, 22:06 pm
THE BALANCE SHEET OF LIFE
Our Birth is our Opening Balance!
Our Death is our Closing Balance!
Our Prejudiced Views are our Liabilities.
Our Creative Ideas are our Assets.
Heart is our Current Asset.
Soul is our Fixed Asset.
Brain is our Fixed Deposit.
Thinking is our Current Account.
Achievements are our Capital.
Character & Morals, our Stock-in-Trade.
Friends are our General Reserves.
Values & Behaviour are our Goodwill.
Love is our Dividend.
Children are our Bonus Issues..
Education is Brands / Patents.
Knowledge is our Investment.
Experience is our Premium Account.
The Aim is to Tally the Balance Sheet Accurately.
The Goal is to get the Best Presented Accounts Award.
Some very Good and Very bad things
The most destructive habit……………………………..Worry
The greatest Joy…………………………………………….Giving
The greatest loss………………………….Loss of self-respect
The most satisfying work……………………Helping others
The ugliest personality trait……………………..Selfishness
The most endangered species……….Dedicated leaders
Our greatest natural resource………………..Our youth
The greatest ‘shot in the arm’………….Encouragement
The greatest problem to overcome……………………Fear
The most effective sleeping pill………….Peace of mind
The most crippling failure disease……………..Excuses
The most powerful force in life………………………Love
The most dangerous pariah…………………A gossiper
The world’s most incredible computer…….The brain
The worst thing to be without………………..Hope
The deadliest weapon…………………….The tongue
The two most power-filled words…………..’I Can’
The greatest asset…………………………………..Faith
The most worthless emotion……………….Self-pity
The most beautiful attire…………………..SMILE!
The most prized possession………………..Integrity
The most powerful channel of communication…….Prayer
The most contagious spirit……………….Enthusiasm
9 Oct 2011, 22:16 pm
Skop, I’m sorry to hear about your dog. I know what she can mean to you. I had to make a call on my cat last year – was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. I guess you can just be grateful that you had her, and she was lucky to have had you.
9 Oct 2011, 22:21 pm
@Dawn, no it is the only option if the animal is suffering. The difficulty is us and the pain we feel at the loss. If the animal is 16 years old that is a massive age, if she were younger you would obviously have her treated at the vet. In animal actist comnunhties and groups we call it the loving thing 2 do. You repay your companion by not letting he lie there suffering waiting 4 the enevital
9 Oct 2011, 22:23 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-628: i don’t know what you are talking about? katman had a cat and Skop skopped his dog?
9 Oct 2011, 22:25 pm
I do understand but looking at those eyes would melt my heart
9 Oct 2011, 22:31 pm
Just saw this pic and it made me think – no whingeing but honestly – check pic 22 of 24 here – http://www.smh.com.au/photogallery/rugby-union/union-news/heroic-australia-defeat-south-africa-20111009-1lfjv.html?selectedImage=1 Dan Vickerman has his arms wrapped around Victor in full flight in the lineout. How is what Danie did a penalty and this isnt? I´m pretty confused. That forward pass was actually very forward by at least a metre or two so no qualms there. But the penalty that gave them back the lead? Apart from that penalty they didn look like scoring again at all.
FFS man – to play that well and lose really burns – if they were bad I can say ahh well man they just didnt have it in them. I guess at the end of the day our continual issues on attack were partly to blame for this loss though to be fair the Ozzies defended like demons. Tough pill to swallow this one. Feel sorry for Victor. Dont care what Smit feels because he should have done the honourable thing and stepped down, he didnt do it for his team he was going for glory. Victor is one Bok i´m very very sad to see the back of. I also dont feel a thing for the departing Fourie du Preez because I feel he has become a bitter little guy lately. He also didtn play very well and is well past it. Cant say the same for old Vic – he still has it in him. Not 100% past his prime just yet. Real champion.
Proud of the way the guys played today – rub of the green wasnt with us – those missed penalties and Lambies missed drop could so easily have handed the game to us.
9 Oct 2011, 22:35 pm
Just to add to that I had a very close look at the replays and Danie is correct when he says he didnt drag the player down – he was hardly touching the guys legs when he fell and it was due to lack of support in his line that he fell. Rotten luck man.
9 Oct 2011, 22:57 pm
From News24:
Smit on Bryce Lawrence:
Springbok captain John Smit said he had discussed with referee Bryce Lawrence his liberal reading of the breakdown during their 11-9 quarter-final loss to Australia on Sunday.
This allowed Wallaby flanker David Pocock to produce a display that won him the Man-of-the-Match accolade but could easily have seen him sin-binned under a stricter interpretation of the rules.
“That was the only talking point in the game between me and the referee, obviously the message I was trying to get through was not being listened to,” said Smit.
Given Kiwi official Lawrence’s rulings, Pocock was “brilliant”, Smit said.
“We had most of the possession so he had plenty of chances to slow it down,” he said. “He’s good at that.
“We decided to be brave and keep the ball and normally you get rewarded as the attacking team but it wasn’t quite that way tonight.”
He added: “It’s the first time I’ve lost a game on the scoreboard but won everything else from a stats point of view. That makes it even harder to accept.”
9 Oct 2011, 22:59 pm
Still no excuse, the ref.
But FFS Lawrence was pretty relaxed at the breakdown tonight.
Almost as if he wanted to prove a point after the criticism he copped after the Aus/Ire game.
9 Oct 2011, 23:26 pm
strange, when animals get to the end its considered humane to put them down, when humans get there its illegal to do so. janee, never any good at taking the animals for the injection.
9 Oct 2011, 23:31 pm
My bok team for next season… but obviously there will be up and coming talent that noone has seen in the super 15 next season:
15 Patrick Lambie
14 Gio Aplon
13 Jaque Fourie
12 Francois Steyn
11 Bryan Habana
10 Peter Grant
9 Francois Hougaard
8 Schalk Burger
7 Francois Louw
6 Heinrich Brussouw
5 Andries Bekker (capt)
4 Juandre Kruger
3 Jannie Du Plessis
2 Bismark Du Plessis
1 Tendai Mtawarira
16 Deon Fourie
17 CJ Van Der Linde
18 Adriaan Fondse
19 Willem Alberts
20 Jano Vermaak
21 Juan De Jongh
22 JP Pietersen
23 Chillyboy Ralepelle
24 Coenie Oosthuzyen
25 Juan Smith
26 Duane Vermeulen
27 Sarel Pretorius
28 Elton Jantjes
29 Jean De Villiers
30 Lwazi Mvovo
If Francois Louw, Francois Steyn wont get picked due to playing overseas then I would go for JDJ at 12 and bring Johaan Sadie into the squad (although he is small for a test centre) and I would bring either Joshua Strauss or Ashley Johnson into the squad if Flo couldt be picked.
10 Oct 2011, 00:06 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-633:
Well i have seen it a few times as well as a couple of X players and commentaters, they seem to think he had hold of his legs at some point.
The refs need to srt this sort of thing out. The Boks and the Ozzies were both messing about with the jumpers, dangerous really and needs to be stopped.
10 Oct 2011, 00:10 am
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-602: Ja I think we should give John Mitchell a go. He can’t do any worse than PdV. And if he doesn’t get results within 2 years of his tender then he should be replaced. We need some fresh thinking and someone with the ballas to bring about a cultural shift in the way we coach in SA. Mitchell might be the man for the job.
10 Oct 2011, 00:12 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-552: De Jongh should’ve been there ahead of donkey JdV. Fair more exciting and dynamic than JdV has ever been. So much for transformation. But thank god PdV the clown is gone. I hope as supporters we never have to go through this farce again!
10 Oct 2011, 00:13 am
@Mike H(Mike H)-503: The right thing? You must be blind my man. So picking Smit every time ahead of Bismarck was the right thing? You cannot be right in the head.
10 Oct 2011, 00:19 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-523: if the Boks played so well today then what went wrong?
10 Oct 2011, 00:55 am
@Rhys7(Rhys7)-637: Good god man what is wrong with you?! You would pick Louw ahead of a fit Juan Smith?! Not even on the bench? *****. We already have two ball scavengers in Brussouw and Bismarck. We need an enforcer type to compliment Brussouw. There’s none harder than Smith.
Forget Schalk at no.8. Think its time for him to go. We need an athletic powerful no.8. Sort of like a Juan Smith with pace or a player in the mould of Jerome Kaino. But I can’t think of any player in SA that fits that bill. I hope we discover a new gifted 8 man in the next few years.
10 Oct 2011, 01:03 am
Farewell to John Smit, another warrior hangs up his sword. Am disappointed the Boks got knocked out as would really have loved a SA/NZ final We will never get to see our teams of this era go head to head in a WC clash now, by next WC most of them will be gone. Mils, McCaw(maybe) Carter etc and already there are some Boks leaving. End of a special time in world rugby but a great tribute to both teams.
10 Oct 2011, 01:09 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-638: Agree fully – He seemed to reach up and grab but when they came down he let go… so not 100% sure – he reckons he wasnt pulling th guy down and in all honesty I dont really see him applying any force in a downwards motion. But anyways. I also think this hanging onto jersey thing should be a yellow card offence as per the Paul Williams incident. Deliberately holding a player back is not any different than obstruction surely?
10 Oct 2011, 01:15 am
@captain fantail(captain fantail)-644: yeah definitely for us as well as the All Blacks – Mils, Sivivatu, Rockocko, McCaw, Hore, Woodcock, Thorne, Ali Williams must all be on the way out.
For SA its the end or near the end for: Smit, Bakkies, Victor, Danie, Burger, Smith, Muller, F Du Preez, Butch James, Jean de Villiers, Habana (still has legs in him but I think he´s way past his best now).
10 Oct 2011, 01:49 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-645:
Yeah mate.
The Wallabies were all over Matfield while in the air. Its just lucky that Matfield is one of the best and probably now so use to other teams pulling his jersey as it seems its the only way they can get the ball of the Boks in Lineout.
Has to stop, would hate to see an ending of a great career cos of a jersey pulling oposition.
10 Oct 2011, 01:50 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-635: I haven’t seen Bryce ref a good game in 3 years. How he maintains his place in the ref lineup I’ll never know. We don’t cop him that much, the Aussies have hated having him for years. It probably won the game for them as they knew what to expect from him.
I actually thought he was even worse in the Ireland/ Aus game. Paddy O’Brien is a major cheat and should not have a job. Bryce referees the same way the Kiwis play the game – no rules at the breakdown.
Anyway, well done to Australia..an unbelievable defensive effort but I think they have only delayed their departure by a week. They were too disjointed to beat the ABs. Decisions went both ways so we can’t blame that. I actually thought O’Conner would get another chance at his conversion after we charged early and there were a couple of other calls that may have gone their way also.
10 Oct 2011, 01:57 am
@jeest(jeest)-648:
Whats with this POB is a major cheat??
Bryce refed badly for both teams as you have noted, so why is POB a cheat again?
10 Oct 2011, 02:05 am
@nama1(nama1)-627:
Thank you, Nama.
10 Oct 2011, 02:07 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-601:
Condolences Skop. She will be there as a guide, like Jinx is for me.
10 Oct 2011, 02:11 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-649: It is plainly obvious that Bryce has been handed his job by Paddy as he certainly does not have the talent to succeed in the role. The only reasoning for this would be so that his mate Bryce can influence games the way he wants them influenced. I point to the Super 15 as a prime example. Bryce was dreadful and almost exclusively favored Kiwi teams.
Bryce has been abysmal this WC and should not be there. Paddy has seen fit in the past to publicly berate and remove other “problem” refs like Stu Dickenson but fails to do anything about Bryce.
Therefore my conclusion is that Paddy is a cheat.
Again – I don’t blame the ref for the loss on the weekend. But he should never have been there
10 Oct 2011, 02:45 am
@jeest(jeest)-652:
“so that his mate Bryce can influence games the way he wants them influenced. I point to the Super 15 as a prime example. Bryce was dreadful and almost exclusively favored Kiwi teams.”.
well he did a tremendous job of disguising it, then.
Bryce refereed the S15 Final between Crusaders vs Reds, only a few months ago, controlled the breakdown exactly as he did yesterday with exact the same ‘free-for-all’ comments made thereafter.
The Reds won.
“almost exclusively favoured the Kiwi teams” ?
10 Oct 2011, 02:50 am
there is no conspiracy, Bryce Lawrence is just a terrible, terrible referee.
10 Oct 2011, 02:55 am
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-654: A very sensible assessment. Any other conclusion will only get you angry and achieve nothing else.
10 Oct 2011, 02:58 am
Also, often thought a bit about the bile you South Africans hold towards Australians (its all over this site) and, it seems to me its because you often recognise the worst of yourselves in the other.
10 Oct 2011, 03:01 am
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-654: That’s probably true but I’m sticking with my theory.
653.Black Panther: The reds won despite Bryce. Look at the Tahs / Blues game and the infamous “dangerous play” call on the sharks scrum before they engaged. He is a disgrace to the game and the fact that he remains a referee should raise all sorts of questions as to Paddys motives.
I will never trust a country that has everything invested in a game like Rugby – it means too much to kiwis for them to be objective.
10 Oct 2011, 03:22 am
@jeest(jeest)-657:
So,Bryce is a cheat, POB is a cheat and you will never turst a Kiwi again.
lol you are blaming everyone else on your loss, just cope and accept like we were told in 2007.
We were told by most of you in 2007 ,NZ should have won but you were not good enough to,accept it,man up and carry on.
Practice what you preach i say.
10 Oct 2011, 03:40 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-658: Like I said – our fault we lost. I certainly haven’t blamed anyone else in any of my posts.
Aussies made 3 times as many tackles…by right they shouldn’t have been able to walk let alone defend but they somehow dragged themselves up and held us out. That’s just gutsy play from them and attacking deficiency from us.
You guys didn’t exactly “cope and accept” your loss in 2007. There were non stop media articles complaining and blaming the ref and your country went into depression, the economy dropped and the government had to hire psychologists to help out the distraught fans.
Bryce is probably just an abysmal ref, but there is enough evidence to suggest a Kiwi conspiracy and having just spent 3 weeks in NZ seeing what terrible fans you all are – I’m going with that. A lot of Kiwis are just way too serious. I couldn’t believe some of the stuff I saw, admittedly most directed towards Australians but it put a lot of other fans off too.
10 Oct 2011, 03:44 am
“lol you are blaming everyone else on your loss, just cope and accept like we were told in 2007″.
Hmmm… what about the famous accusation that “Suzie the waitress poisened the All Blacks before the final” story after the 1995 Worls Cup?
10 Oct 2011, 03:52 am
@boksfan(boksfan)-660: Kiwis would never make up a story like that…haven’t they told you how “humble” and “reserved” they are. All other nations are “arrogant”, “unsportsmanlike”, “loud” and “cheats” but fortunately New Zealand is a shining example of how sport should be played and how fans should behave.
On a serious note, Kiwis don’t ever see their own faults. They are too insular.
10 Oct 2011, 04:22 am
@jeest(jeest)-659:
try not to let your team being not-good-enough to progress with your touring experience then. Try reeeeeeeeal hard.
What an incredibly Poor Loser.
I met some incredibly gracious Pumas supporters immediately after the QterF vs ABs last pm and they couldnt have been more glowing about NZ and its people and the warm way they have been welcomed. Perhaps they were able to have greater clarity of their touring experience than you given that they never had such huge expectations of victory.
On my own journeys throughout NZ for 9 matches, the one set of supporters who seemed almost resolute in their determination to appear grim-faced and humorless were the Safas. They went everywhere en masse in their Bokke team kit, long coats as if marching to The War in the Arctic, I never once saw them wearing silly self-effacing outfits, and their attitude has been nothing shy of Us vs Them. At Albany during the Samoa match, they even managed to fight amongst themselves with 2 groups of Safas having to be escorted from the stadium, 1 of which was started by women. Maybe SA – and you seem to be a wonderful example – “are just way too serious” ?
On a Poll taken before the RWC, 67% of NZers voted that it was far more important that the RWC was a success than it was for the ABs to win the RWC, thats how “insular” they are. And it seems to have been a resounding success to date, given the International reaction.
Next time you go to a RWC, why dont you pack your bag with a silly joke moustache in honour of your favourite rugby comedian. And learn to not take rugby, and life, toooooooo seriously.
10 Oct 2011, 04:39 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-662: You are so insular you have just put together a WC wrap from your own point of view.
Let me tell you a couple of things from a group that included 3 Aussies, 2 Irish and 2 South Africans.
Firstly, Aukland is a **** hole and the people there are idiots. Some of the worst behaviour i have ever seen was directed towards the aussies in our group at Eden Park and it continued into the next day where they were abused by some idiots while we sat and had breakfast in a cafe.
While Wellington is a beautiful city, the supporters there continued the trend. Apparently there was a Rugby League game that a Kiwi team won that night so the supporters decided that was an excuse to go out and abuse Australians again. I’m told it had nothing to do with international rugby league so I’m not sure what they were going on about. In any case there were a lot of people from a lot of countries who were seriously unimpressed with the behaviour of the New Zealanders. And this wasn’t just “banter” plenty of it got abusive and violent.
The problem seems to be that, you go out and ask to host this international tournament, but you seem to think that you don’t need to be good hosts. I can assure you that the last two major events hosted by SA were nothing like that.
And while you call me a poor loser, I give full credit to the Australians for their victory – something I have stated on several occasions but that you have chosen to ignore. Much like a toddler does when it throws a tantrum. My advice to you and to most of your countrymen is simple…just grow up. It’s an international game and if you are going to play with the rest of the world then you need to learn how to behave. Still as someone pointed out to me on tour “what can you expect from a trailer park off Sydney’s Eastern Coast”.
10 Oct 2011, 05:08 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-662: THere will be instances of pockets of good or bad behaviour from any supporting country. I heard of instances of kiwi’s spitting on and burning the Australian flag. If it were true, it would be crazy to suggest that you were supportive of this just because you were Kiwi. Don’t be ridiculous!
10 Oct 2011, 05:08 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-662:
Yes, I agree, NZ is a model nation.
10 Oct 2011, 05:21 am
@jeest(jeest)-663:
Well said bud
I also saw first hand some very disappointing keewwwee behaviour. Support the underdog, like Nam, Samoa etc in the games v the Boks, no problems, but the worst sports and the most poison came out of these so – called neutral mouths when it turned out Sa was going to win.
Pathetic narrow minded little f u k pigs these blokes……………just like wet pantie
Unfortunately a larger % than some Keewees will acknowledge
10 Oct 2011, 05:22 am
@BillMcConnell(BillMcConnell)-656: I am truly sorry that you feel that way. On behalf of all the Saffas, allow me to apologise. I really believe that good behaviour brings out the best in all of us. Please pray for us and don’t forget to whip yourself senseless.
10 Oct 2011, 05:39 am
I think the word I’m looking for is…anywaaaaaay. Who do you think will be the new coaching team?
Head Coach:
Forwards Coach:
Backs Coach:
Technical Analyst:
Kicking Coach:
Skills Coach:
10 Oct 2011, 05:44 am
gold and muir to share primary responsibilities, PdV assistant coach 50% of time allocated to the backs and 50% to the forwards.
10 Oct 2011, 05:56 am
@BillMcConnell(BillMcConnell)-656: Well I’m not sure who you are referring to but personally I don’t have a problem with most Aussie supporters. You carry on like idiots during most matches (like we all do) but generally after the game, especially if you have lost, you quickly forget about the result and get on with your lives. In fact I’ve noticed that most of you start talking up the next match within an hour of a defeat.
I certainly don’t see the hatred you believe we hold for you in our fans. Which is in contrast to your Tasman cousins who really seem to have a massive problem with you. Probably due to the fact that their happiness depends on how 15 people play a game every week.
10 Oct 2011, 05:56 am
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-668: Sorry for the sarcasm, still recovering from the defeat. You seem to be able to look forward quite quickly. I’m out…
10 Oct 2011, 06:13 am
Not to keen on Rassie and Alistair …. i wonder what Graham Henry or Warren Gatland are doing after the WorldCup
Nah John Mitchell is the way to go
10 Oct 2011, 06:20 am
@Jinx2(Jinx2)-665:
tell me, because I am really genuinely interested
the only thing I really said that was ‘pro-NZ’ was that 1. Argies had a good time and 2. NZers wanted a successful RWC above all else
so WHY have you interpreted that as me saying ‘NZ is a model nation’ ?
Ive visited many many countries on this incredible planet and Ive yet to strike a ‘model nation’ myself, incl NZ.
But Ive lost count of how many “you think your country is the best” chippy comments here. Why IS that ?
And tell me that the reply from Jeest @ 663 is not based on childish paranoia written in the wake of bitter defeat ?
10 Oct 2011, 06:30 am
Why isn’t that co-ck sucker Vickerman cited for dropping a knee on Brussow’s head and then going in with the shoulder at the ruck? What a load of horseshit.
I hope Vickerman and his family suffer a nice house invasion from a 5 foot 3 street native with aids. A nice raping will be just deserts,
10 Oct 2011, 06:33 am
@jeest(jeest)-663:
Your reply is hilarious and Im somewhat embarrassed for you.
Just so you know, your wee pitbull in support, aka the sexist racist bottomfeeding-pondlife SCUM trading under the name of ‘Whatever’, actually lives in this wee ‘trailer park’.
And should you want to critique the locals who dressed up their houses in flags of all supporting nations, who flew them from their cars, who delighted in all kinds of fancy-dress on matchday, and who had sold out crowds in the isolated towns of Palmerston North, Napier, Whangarei and Nelson – for neutral matches between minnow nations – and compare them to the crowd shots from the 1995 RWC, where the crowd seemed to come alive but only when the Boks were on the field, and not a neutral flag in sight, then I can only assume that you toured this country with your eyes firmly closed shut. Perhaps you should exercise the same instruction to your mouth.
Ever been to a cricket match in Australia ?
*chortle*
10 Oct 2011, 06:36 am
@jeest(jeest)-670:
Enjoy the post from your countryman, KKK, at 674.
10 Oct 2011, 06:40 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-674: That’s just sick mate.
10 Oct 2011, 06:42 am
@bokgat1(bokgat1)-664:
The suburb of Mt Eden, the home of Eden Park and my very own residence, has adopted Australia as its ’2nd team’. The street and shops are lined with Australian flags, as is my childrens school. My kids classes are lined with drawings their created of Australian players.
I havent seen any burnt flags yet tho, but I’ll be on the lookout.
10 Oct 2011, 06:44 am
@jeest(jeest)-677:
you make a lovely couple actually.
10 Oct 2011, 06:44 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-675: Be great if you actually read my post you idiot.
You will see I was critical of Auckland and Wellington only – not of any other places. When you put on an event like this, you need your major population centres to behave, something you haven’t done.
So, for the second time, you have responded to an argument I haven’t made. Obviously you have no retort to my comments so you have to pretend I said something that you can argue with.
And as far as Kobus goes, look back at my responses to him in the past in a number of articles. I don’t agree with that **** but every country has idiots…yours just has more than anywhere else.
10 Oct 2011, 07:00 am
@jeest(jeest)-680:
how odd that your bitterness only surfaced after your teams defeat.
Personally Ive never visited a country I didnt like. I suppose its all in the attitude.
There are 20,000 Safas who choose to live in NZ. So maybe theyre not all negative miserable b@st@rds like you.
10 Oct 2011, 07:04 am
At least some good news, PdV we’ll never miss you, and please, never try to come back, ok?
I realy hope sarugby officials change their minds about this quota and political **** and starts to think more about rugby itself.
What so wonderfull AC has done at ct? nothing, but at least he knows more about rugby than pdv. Rassie its a good name and so its Brendan Venter. But why it can’t be a non sa born? Eddie Jones it would be perfect.
Schalk has prove he can still play 80 minutes and deserves to be named capitain. Juan Smith is also a good name while he is able to play for the Boks. I hope he at least continues to be used as a bok as far as he can do the job. Big Vic has done an excelent job at his last game and i’ll miss him. I can’t say the same about smit and Spies.
This bullshit about chiliboy as hooker and capitain can’t be serious. He’s not at international level even as a replacement.
Andries Beker and Duane Vermeulen could have really done a good rwc if feat.
Gurthro did an amazing rwc, i hope the new coach don’t forget him. Bakkies should be named at some games, at least half time or 30 minutes just to balance youth and experience and help the next Boks generation.
we have the best human material in rugby, we just have to use it wisely.
10 Oct 2011, 07:19 am
@jeest(jeest)-680:
“I was critical of Auckland and Wellington only – not of any other places.”
Once I “read your message”, again, I STILL failed to see ONE positive comment from your stay in NZ. And, in fact, just so you made it abundantly clear, the “trailer park off Sydney” summary seemed to encapsulate the whole country of NZ rather succinctly. Unless Im mistaken.
Personally this is my 6th RWC and as Ive returned to NZ after 16yrs living away have been able to view it with a more objective eye than many. The RWCs held in UK (’91 and ’99) were the absolute worst without any ‘rugby fever’ outside of the stadiums themselves, and where most of the population didnt even know it was taking place (other than in Cardiff). Australia in 2003 was fun but outside of Sydney and Brisbane, it may as well have not been on and even then R.League or Aussie Rules was the main focus for most. It was more a ‘sporting event’ than a true Rugby Event. 2007 was wonderful as France is 1 of my favourite countries but, then, it had sold itself down the river with high profile matches in French towns such as Cardiff, London and Edinburgh. And the Final in Paris was merely a curiosity for the locals, most seemed as aloof as only Parisiens can be. I didnt manage SA in 1995 as I was already elsewhere on Honeymoon, but coverage of it was enough to illustrate the almost complete lack of local support for any other nation bar SA. It is, nevertheless, a country Im desperate to visit and have promised myself to 1 day.
Its odd that your comments seem greatly in contrast to every other visitor I have met and the tone seems oddly close to that currently being directed at the referee of yesterdays match. Just a coincidence, Im sure.
10 Oct 2011, 07:37 am
Good for SA rugby – Pdivvy brought nothing to the boks
10 Oct 2011, 07:42 am
Good luck Peter. You exhibited a lot of admirable qualities as a human being, especially honesty, candour and wit. Alas as a coach you brought nothing new to the Boks and we spent the last four years effectively spinning our wheels. I wish you well for the future.
10 Oct 2011, 08:02 am
Candidates for Head Coach
Allistair Coetzee
Heyneke Meyer
Rassie Erasmus
John Mitchell
John Plumtree
I think Allistair will take it.
10 Oct 2011, 08:09 am
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-686:
Of course he will. The Springboks will more than likely never again have a white coach.
10 Oct 2011, 08:21 am
@Kobus
So, without looking at Allistair’s merits, you are implying he doesn’t deserve the job?
Who would you pick?
10 Oct 2011, 08:45 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-687: Who gives a **** what colour the coach is? We need to get the best coach available.
10 Oct 2011, 09:20 am
Hallelujah, this is the best news I’ve had in ages, pdiv finally gone, it makes yesterday’s loss just a bit easier to take.
Now I just hope the next coach is appointed on his rugby acumen and not “non rugby related reasons”
10 Oct 2011, 10:05 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-647: Yeah likewise. The way Samo fell yesterday was very dangerous too but had much more to do with his supporters but yeah Danie did have his hands around the lower leg by the end. Didnt think he pulled at all buthe just shouldnt have done it in the first place.
10 Oct 2011, 12:37 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-678: Haha shame on you for blaming innocent children on flag-burning.
10 Oct 2011, 13:10 pm
The best news I’ve read since the devastating loss on Sunday.
Everything is looking up already.
10 Oct 2011, 13:30 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-381: Post after post you come across as bigger and bigger fool.
A repetitive fool is the worst fool.
10 Oct 2011, 20:59 pm
Oh ja PDivvy had to go eventually but the real rot is around and above him. SA officials and administrators are pathetic. I’m none too hopeful of an improvement based on the lack of any sign of management skill, accountability, leadership or standing up for the Boks by our gravy train riders. We have the players; management is non-existent and that is why klowns like keo and oberholzer can promote their own agendas.
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