PdV quits as Boks crash out
9 Oct 2011
Peter de Villiers has quit after coaching the Springboks to a World Cup quarter-final defeat in Wellington.
De Villiers’ contract has expired and after a four year tenure marked by controversy and criticism, he will opt not to put forward his name as a candidate for the now vacant post.
‘Its been a brilliant journey and one that none of you [the media] can take away from me,’ he said. ‘There’s a time to come and a time to go. The journey is over.
‘I enjoyed it. I was in a privileged position to be able to contribute to my country. South African rugby is in a good state and will move forward after this.’
Asked how he wanted to be remembered, De Villiers said: ‘As the best me I could be.’
De Villiers ends his career with a 63% success rate, winning 30 of his 48 Tests. However, measured against the best in the world he has struggled. With the defeat in Wellington this evening his record against Australia dipped to four wins from 12, while he has won just five from 11 against the All Blacks.
De Villiers enjoyed the bulk of his success in 2009, winning a series against the British & Irish Lions, as well as the Tri-Nations. However, outside of that the Springboks have struggled, this with arguably the finest generation of players in decades at his disposal.
His loyalty to captain John Smit, despite the rise of the incomparable Bismarck du Plessis, has elicited severe criticism. He sought out Smit in 2008 while the Test veteran was contracted to French outfit Clermont, offering him the captaincy, then persisting with him despite Smit touching the ceiling of his potential in 2009.
Smit was liberal in his praise of De Villiers. ‘We’ve had a good four years. He isn’t a coach in the usual mould but one we’ve thoroughly enjoyed,’ Smit said. ‘He has given us leeway and space and tightened the reigns when he needed to. He is a great man and coach.’
De Villiers was appointed ahead of superior candidates, most notably Heyneke Meyer, in 2008, South African Rugby Union president Oregan Hoskins citing ‘reasons other than rugby credentials’ as the reason for the decision.
There isn’t a clear favourite for the post. Meyer has signed a long-term deal with the Bulls as their director of rugby and has indicated repeatedly to this website that he isn’t considering applying for the job. The Stormers duo of Rassie Erasmus and Allistair Coetzee are expected to toss their names into the hat, while others like Lions coach John Mitchell and former Saracens head Brendan Venter have been mentioned as possible candidates.
By Ryan Vrede, in Wellington.
695 Comments
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9 Oct 2011, 11:53 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-197:
Pienaar is useless. There are better 9′s around. Divenhage, Pretorius, etc.
9 Oct 2011, 11:53 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-196:
Yeah, they did. They were slicing every side in the 2007 world cup so much so that Butch was being touted as the best 10 in the world. Majority of Bok backline tries came from set piece, which shows.
9 Oct 2011, 11:54 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-198:
Sarel is no Springbok. He won’t last long at the Waratahs either, not with that defense.
Also, Alberts is not a lock. He won’t play there for the Sharks. He’s not a line-out jumper at the front at this stage.
If he plays the entire season there for the Sharks, I would like to see what he can do, but I doubt they’d waste him at lock, when he’s easily one of the best blindsides in world rugby.
9 Oct 2011, 11:55 am
@Steel Shark(Steel Shark)-200:
Ja, what talent was Eddie working with in Australia? Not much.
9 Oct 2011, 11:56 am
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-202:
lol, ok whatever you think.
9 Oct 2011, 11:56 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-201:
I’m not even going to bother with this. People with an agenda. Willing to throw aside talented players.
Ruan Pienaar played behind a terrible side in Australasia, and stats wise was still up there. He missed no tackles etc, and considering the ball he was getting you can’t criticize his work behinds the rucks.
The only form he can fairly be judged on is for Ulster.
Outside of that I see an amazingly talented player, and if a smart coach comes in, he’ll be the Springboks starting 9 next year.
But yes Duvenage is a much better scrumhalf then Pretorius. Jano Vermaak is also better… heck even give me Charl McLeod.
9 Oct 2011, 11:57 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-185:
You make good points but i am afraid a lot of South Africans have a World Cups or nothing attitude. Look at all the flak our cricket team gets (they have lost only 1 series in over 5 years), but yet they are judged only at these tournaments
9 Oct 2011, 11:57 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-203:
He’d fill in Botha’s role. He played lock at the Lions and some at this world cup with success. Rather him play there than be wasted on the bench because he won’t start ahead of Brussow, Burger or Smith.
9 Oct 2011, 11:57 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-205:
lol, at least I do think.
9 Oct 2011, 11:57 am
Is it coincidental that 3 of the 4 teams through to the world cup are coached by New Zealanders? Makes you think, does it not?
9 Oct 2011, 11:58 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-205:
He’s got a point about tries from set-pieces. The Boks backline was on fire in the 2007 World Cup.
I wouldn’t have called it best in the world, but we were very dangerous back then.
9 Oct 2011, 12:00 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-206: So you don’t think Ruan is a bit soft in the head? Apart from that alot of times I get the feeling he is just going thru the motions outhere. Almost like his heart is not in it. Just my opinion and for that I will not pick him in a Bokside. Not until he shows that same form he had for the Sharks 4-5 years back.
9 Oct 2011, 12:00 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-206:
I have no agenda at all. Pienaar is slow, runs sideways before he passes and gets caught because he is so slow. All you do is get under his chin and he sulks and the game goes from bad to worse.
9 Oct 2011, 12:01 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-211:
The Boks backline was the best. The Wallabies had a young Barnes at 10 and Giteau/old Gregan at 9 and the All Blacks were playing unstructured basketball rugby.
9 Oct 2011, 12:02 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-213:
Agree. He had potential but PIenaar at 9 is a no no. His box kicks (which he does more than du Preez) always go 20 meters too far.
9 Oct 2011, 12:02 pm
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-209:
You think after you posts most times which does not count.
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-211:
I think what Jones bought to the mix was to make the Boks flow better,
There was no doubt the Boks forward in 2007 were up there amongst the best, if not the best forward pack. But the backline was struggling, they were lost once they recieved the ball.
Look against teams like Fiji,Tonga and USA your backline should look good, trying not to take anything from the Boks at all. But the best backline in the world, is still a big no
9 Oct 2011, 12:05 pm
@Kobus Kitty(Kobus Kitty)-214:
Well that unstructured basketball rugby beat you guys in 2007 and 2008 a number of times..
But anyway lets move on, this is RWC 2011
9 Oct 2011, 12:09 pm
EOYT team
15 F. Steyn
14 Basson
13 JF
12 De Jongh
11 JPP
10 Lambie
9 F. Hougard
8 Alberts/ Duane
7 Brussouw
6 Schalk/ Alberts
5 Bekker
4.J. Kruger
3. Jannie
2. Bissy
1. Coenie
Bench:
Beast
Chilliboy
Flo
Spies
Ebersohn
Sadie
Ruan
Would still like to see Elton, Ebersohn x2 , J Fourie, J Smith and Habnna in the mix helping youngsters out.
9 Oct 2011, 12:12 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-216:
Boks don’t play the sort of rugby to ever be the most dangerous backline. They run different lines, don’t force passes as often (which come off the All Blacks often)… and they don’t use as many decoy runners.
Instead we use slightly bigger runners who try hold the ball up.
For the Springbok backline to progress from here, I think we need to invest in Francois Steyn & Jaque Fourie as a midfield combination. They both run hard at the line, and Francois Steyn holding the ball up well for potential offloads etc. could be a big weapon.
9 Oct 2011, 12:13 pm
@liefling(liefling)-218:
Are they having an EOYT this year?
9 Oct 2011, 12:14 pm
End of PdV .. some light in the darkness after all
Ruan is totally useless. I hope he never touches another bok jersey. Every time he is on field, he messes up whatever strategy we have.
PdV is solely responsible for todays loss … his consistent choice of out-of form players when in-form are available, mixed with his mixing of positions over time which weakened players progress.
Well defended Aus.
And now to all those ‘EXPERTS’ who were bitching and moaning when I said Frans Steyn is what SA need back when there was problems with Frans and PdV returning, and saying we don’t need him. I hope you are satisfied. Idiots. There is no doubt Frans on field today would have yielded a totally different result. Not just with his long distance howitzer, but also the intimidating presence he has which would likely have forced Aus to play a little different – and likely open a few more holes.
9 Oct 2011, 12:19 pm
@TheBoksAreBack(bringbacktheboks)-221: Tbh, I think you are jumping up and down over nothing at all. PdV’s out of form players did realy well today. They dominated a large part of this match and only finishing let them down in the end. As for FS…he would’ve played today if he was fully fit. At 12. Or is this meant to be a ‘I told you so’?
9 Oct 2011, 12:22 pm
Who’ll be the next coach?
9 Oct 2011, 12:23 pm
I wouldnt mind John Mitchell for coach and schalkie for captain, Mitchell has really done well and transformed the Lions.
RL will tear his hair our if the Lions lose Mitchell to the boks lol.
9 Oct 2011, 12:24 pm
even better I hope we never see Muir & Gold again.
9 Oct 2011, 12:25 pm
“De Villiers ends his career with a 63% success rate, winning 30 of his 48 Tests. However, measured against the best in the world he has struggled. With the defeat in Wellington this evening his record against Australia dipped to four wins from 12, while he has won just five from 11 against the All Blacks.”
How does he compare against the Bok coaches before him? If you measure any international coach against Henry (the best in the world) he will come up short.
33% average winning percentage against Aus is kak.
5 wins out of 11 against the All Blacks is a great return if you keep in mind that the AB’s played an extra match at home. Don’t know how you can say “just five from eleven” I’d venture that that is the best record by any coach against the AB’s under Henry and maybe even in history..
9 Oct 2011, 12:26 pm
Let the planning for the next WC begin. First job, we need a coach who is a player manager, and who recognises the type of specialists he needs beside him from the beginning.
Next step is to clean out the team a little bit, and start Lambie at 10.
9 Oct 2011, 12:32 pm
Mitchell should take over as bok coach on an 8 year basis, boks need a more balanced approach to the game, huge emphasis on skills development.
9 Oct 2011, 12:33 pm
If you don’t pick players on form, you get results like this. There were allot more dubious inclusions in this team than Smit. Fourie Du Preez was shocking all WC, Pierre Spies has been a non-factor since the last WC. Habana has lost his mojo when he left Pretoria.
I, for one, am glad to see the end of Smit, Matfiel, Bakkies, Butch and Divvie. There are way to much talent in this country to be reserving jerseys for some.
Let’s look ahead four years from now. Give this team to any reputable coach and he’ll come home with the trophee.
15. Lambie (24), 14.JPP (29), 13. De Jongh (27), 12. F. Steyn (28), 11. Mvovu (29), 10. Goosen (23), 9. Hougaard (27), 8. Alberts (31), 7. Burger(32), 6. Brussouw (29), 5. Bekker(32), 4. Deysel (30), 3 Du Plessis (33), 2. Du Plessis (31), 1. Beast(30)
9 Oct 2011, 12:38 pm
“Peter de Villiers has quit after coaching the Springboks to a World Cup quarter-final defeat in Wellington.
De Villiers’ contract has expired…”
How can you quit if your contract has expired?
9 Oct 2011, 12:45 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-223:
Well, Rassie and Nienaber are there already. They only need to bring in AC.
9 Oct 2011, 12:46 pm
@nama1(nama1)-226: I agree, that is a good succes rate against the all blacks, but id give the credit to the team rather than to PDV. Hes a shocking coach, never adapted after 2009. He only started picking Brussom after Heinrik was so bloody good he couldnt ignore him. Yip and Frans Steyn would have made a big difference, but the seeds of this world cup wer sewn when hoskings met De Villiers – the Boks were doomed.
9 Oct 2011, 12:46 pm
ABs must win World Cup to save the game
STEPHEN JONES Last updated 05:00 07/10/2011
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PETER MEECHAM/Fairfax Media
RIGHT EXAMPLE: The All Blacks are playing the right kind of rugby.
Rugby Live blog commentary – Bok vs Wallabies Flashy ego given boot as Beale comes of age Captain Richie McCaw just grins and bears it Well-behaved Wellington for Welsh win ABs enforcer Kaino to set mongrel on Pumas France march on after English roasting Relentless Wales send Ireland packing ABs to make Muliaina’s milestone memorable Argentine captain ready for ‘gift’ All Blacks clash
OPINION: “New Zealand have to win this World Cup for the sake of rugby.” A quote. And which numbskull wrote it and believes it? Which pompous Kiwi who cannot see beyond the end of his nose? Well actually, I wrote it. Me. I wrote it just then, and I believe it.
Naturally, most people who are not New Zealanders can think of around 45 reasons why they don’t want New Zealand to win. I can think of a few myself, as I have said before. Important ones.
But if the game itself is going to evolve in the next five years into something worth watching, worth playing, and something that is safe to play, then to my mind only New Zealand (and possibly Wales) come close to setting the right example.
One of the basic joys of rugby used to lie in the old truth that the forwards won the ball and the backs did something with it, and the greatest, most artistic, most precious and most memorable moments in most of rugby history have been those when backs were pitted against backs – and tried to outwit each other with sleight of hand and foot, angles, dummies, length of pass, sidesteps, swerves, outside breaks, clever offloads, chip-and-chases, whatever. The best thing about it was that the forwards were not needed till they were called upon to win first-phase ball again.
Yes, I know this was all years ago. I am not for a moment going back on my conviction that the scrum, tight forward play and the forward confrontation itself is all important, simply because when you strong-arm people out of the way, it gives space for your backs
And I am not for a moment retracting a word of my criticism of the nonsense early years of Super Rugby when they mistook action for spectacle, mistook movement for real rugby, mistook tries for satisfaction. That was a different sport and it cost New Zealand at least two World Cups because they were suckered into playing like that.
My liking for the All Blacks’ style of play is based on the contrast they often provide with what rugby has become. Yes, in modern rugby the ball is in play for long periods. But it consists largely of brute-like charges by players with their heads down, backs and forwards. It involves a physical crunch and a contest for possession with players being battered all over the place. It involves a stationary ball at the back of a ruck, while we all twiddle our thumbs.
And all this in the name of creating good ball. The problem is that sometimes, creating good ball takes around 30 minutes of bashing and crashing; before coaches will give the mental green light for the team to go wide with the ball.
One of the parrot sayings of top coaches these days is ”earn the right to go wide.” And in this World Cup, all the teams bar New Zealand and Wales have spent around 79 minutes and 50 seconds earning the eight to go wide, and about 10 seconds actually going it. Bash, bash, bash.
Sometimes, New Zealand don’t bother earning the right. Even at key times in key games, they simply shovel bad ball along the line, behind the advantage line, as quick as they can. That isolates the likes of Ma’a Nonu, Sonny Bill Williams, Richard Kahui, Israel Dagg and the wings against the opposition backs. No forwards in the way, no head-down bashing by the front five, just us against you like the old days. The All Black backs performing, with the angles, sharpness, the rock-solid quality of their basics and their rugby decision-making.
Just for one example – France were taken apart behind the scrum with quality Black back play, sometimes from first phase, sometimes from ball that was not charged with electricity. New Zealand backed their skills, and they could easily have scored 50
Wales may not have the all-round capability and endurance of New Zealand yet though they are getting there – and against Fiji, they did not bother too much with earning any rights. They just shifted the ball to Jamie Roberts and the outside men and took Fiji to the cleaners.
We should have nothing against forwards, bless them. We know how fit and fast they are these days. They can run and handle like backs – except they cannot do it as well.
It might sound simplistic. But maybe simplicity is what is needed. Maybe people will come to watch if skills make a comeback, maybe parents will bring down their kids if they see a game with less head-down, eyes-closed battering.
One of the reasons why New Zealand remain (very narrowly) favourites to take the title, even in the absence of Mr Cater and with Mr McCaw hobbling around the place, is that they did not suffer from agoraphobia; they back themselves, out wide, and often without endless boring preparatory phases.
They are good, and they look good. Good on them.
9 Oct 2011, 12:50 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-222: They played well, but would have played better if they had played many more games in correct positions. And why only put Bismark and Hougard on when game is almost over.
Yes, my comment re FS was ‘i told you we needed him’. He is the X-factor and most certainly would have made the difference today.
9 Oct 2011, 12:50 pm
@nama1(nama1)-231: unfortunately, that’ll not ensure that bok rugby develops, the stormers can’t score tries, there’s such an enormous focus on defense that WP’s traditional flair has left. Rassie under Mitchell is one thing but to have Rassie and AC together will be continuing with the status quo.
9 Oct 2011, 12:53 pm
Fortunately heyneke Meyer is still with the bulls, as he’d be automatic then one would have four years of bulls rugby!
9 Oct 2011, 12:53 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-233: Yet they survived today by the boot. Jeering and cat calls turned to cheers as the boot saved AB’s.
9 Oct 2011, 12:56 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-233: it’s idealistic and it’s hogwash.
9 Oct 2011, 12:57 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-233:
Great article, thaks.
It must be sent to every coach in the world.Starting from junior level to top. Rugby like any sport, it’s primary role is to entertain. Full stop. All Blacks epitomises that. They are the only hope as an example of growing rugby. Fortunately the influence of coaches from New Zealand is growing.
9 Oct 2011, 12:58 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-224:
Leave my Mitch where he is … I would say take Plum but I enjoy the fact that a sub-standard coach is at the guppies, so keep him there.
9 Oct 2011, 13:01 pm
Firstly, I think the new coach should only be given a 2 year contract with defined success targets and a 2 year renewable clause.
It has been nice to only have 2 coaches over the last 8 years, but the what I disagree with is the emphasis on 4 year world cup cycles.
Why must we put up with 2 or 3 years of utter hogwash results in a 4 year cycle?
Both White and De Villiers served up a couple of years of hogwash results mixed in with some success.
The focus MUST be on winning EVERY game and clawing back our rapidly diminishing returns against the big boys, Australia and NZ.
9 Oct 2011, 13:05 pm
@coma(coma)-229:
You must be sick in your head.
Lambie
JPP
de Jongh
Mvovo
Burger
Kannie dup
Beast
Deysel
You must be a guppy ffs
9 Oct 2011, 13:07 pm
@ufo(ufo)-58:
Schalk as captain and we will have the same situation in 2015 where you captain does not necessarily is an automatic choice.
Make Heinrich Brussow captain.
@NZMaori(NZMaori)-232:
In 2009 he had a choice between Schalk and Brussow at 6. Spies and Juan Smith were certainties at 8 and 7 respectively… in the minds of 95% of Bok supporters.
Would YOU have dropped Schalk to make way for Brussow back then?
9 Oct 2011, 13:07 pm
@RL(RL)-242: all the Sharks players mentioned there are better than any of their Cuddly Kitten counterparts.
9 Oct 2011, 13:09 pm
@nama1(nama1)-243: Has Brussow ever captained a team before? How much does he talk in the changeroom or on the field? How do the other players see him as a leader?
A lot more goes into making a captain than simply picking a name. Bismark for example would never make a captain even though now with the recent retirements he is the first name on the teamsheet.
9 Oct 2011, 13:11 pm
@nama1(nama1)-243:
If he doesn’t deserve to be captain anymore by that stage, then he’ll be replaced. We need to forget about 4-year cycles, and try win every game.
Schalk is the best man for the job right now. Right now is what matters.
Apparently Heyneke Meyer is changing the way the Bulls play. He wants them to play more expansively which is why he’s brought in a few of the players he has.
Still though, I don’t want him near the Springboks. If it wasn’t for Derick Hougaard he’d have been retired 8 years ago. Credit to him for making the Bulls what they are, but that’s not what I want for the Springboks.
9 Oct 2011, 13:15 pm
@RL(RL)-242: Don’t worry buddy, all the Lions Springboks should be availalbe for the CC playoffs,
9 Oct 2011, 13:16 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-241:
You will recall the madness started with Jake White when he insisted that what matters is world cup and unfortunately all bought that nonsense. We lost to all and sundry and to our fortune/misfortune we won the world cup by defeating England only in 2007. Then everyone, including many in this site fell for that trap.
The problem with South African rugby is the mindset. We inculcate, at the earliest stage, this braun driven rugby. I know because my boy is at a boarding school in Grahamstown. He plays under 14 and is pestering me to pay his gym fees and my response is ” you are too young for that. His rugby coach is encouraging him to do that. No skills are choached at all but the DONKEY RUGBY. So we as a rugby nation we need a mindset overhaul.
Funilly enough we played beautifull rugby not so long ago. And then Jake started/punted the donkey rugby. Don’t you miss the Dup brothers and Danie Gerber way of rugby?
9 Oct 2011, 13:17 pm
Something to ponder over while you make yourself believe that the springbok has unified the country
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/09/cape-town-tutu-racial-inequality
PDV will look back and understand that he was naieve to believe that he could change anything with his almost all white bok team. I will like to meet him personally and laugh at him for ever thinking he could reach into the hearts of the Nazi scum
9 Oct 2011, 13:18 pm
@nama1(nama1)-243:
Brussow was originally excluded from the Springbok squad in 2009, until he had an amazing game against the B&I Lions, and heaps of pressure was put on to select him.
I’d have asked for Burger to go to 8.
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