PdV quits as Boks crash out
9 Oct 2011
Peter de Villiers has quit after coaching the Springboks to a World Cup quarter-final defeat in Wellington.
De Villiers’ contract has expired and after a four year tenure marked by controversy and criticism, he will opt not to put forward his name as a candidate for the now vacant post.
‘Its been a brilliant journey and one that none of you [the media] can take away from me,’ he said. ‘There’s a time to come and a time to go. The journey is over.
‘I enjoyed it. I was in a privileged position to be able to contribute to my country. South African rugby is in a good state and will move forward after this.’
Asked how he wanted to be remembered, De Villiers said: ‘As the best me I could be.’
De Villiers ends his career with a 63% success rate, winning 30 of his 48 Tests. However, measured against the best in the world he has struggled. With the defeat in Wellington this evening his record against Australia dipped to four wins from 12, while he has won just five from 11 against the All Blacks.
De Villiers enjoyed the bulk of his success in 2009, winning a series against the British & Irish Lions, as well as the Tri-Nations. However, outside of that the Springboks have struggled, this with arguably the finest generation of players in decades at his disposal.
His loyalty to captain John Smit, despite the rise of the incomparable Bismarck du Plessis, has elicited severe criticism. He sought out Smit in 2008 while the Test veteran was contracted to French outfit Clermont, offering him the captaincy, then persisting with him despite Smit touching the ceiling of his potential in 2009.
Smit was liberal in his praise of De Villiers. ‘We’ve had a good four years. He isn’t a coach in the usual mould but one we’ve thoroughly enjoyed,’ Smit said. ‘He has given us leeway and space and tightened the reigns when he needed to. He is a great man and coach.’
De Villiers was appointed ahead of superior candidates, most notably Heyneke Meyer, in 2008, South African Rugby Union president Oregan Hoskins citing ‘reasons other than rugby credentials’ as the reason for the decision.
There isn’t a clear favourite for the post. Meyer has signed a long-term deal with the Bulls as their director of rugby and has indicated repeatedly to this website that he isn’t considering applying for the job. The Stormers duo of Rassie Erasmus and Allistair Coetzee are expected to toss their names into the hat, while others like Lions coach John Mitchell and former Saracens head Brendan Venter have been mentioned as possible candidates.
By Ryan Vrede, in Wellington.
695 Comments
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9 Oct 2011, 13:18 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-235:
Agree with that.
They are not the right people, Rassie especially. At the beginning of the year a lot of bloggers on this site asked for the next coach to be roped in so that he can learn to know the players who will still be there leading up to 2015. Maybe SARU heard the call and obliged hence Rassie and Nienaber in the mix during the WC.
I guess afa SA coaches go, there are probably only Rassie, AC and Meyer with a realistic chance of being appointed as head coach.
At the end of it all, it will be a case of the better of three evils. Not one of them inspire confidence as head coach.
If we are going to look overseas, I think we can do a lot worse than getting Warren Gatland here. What he has done with Wales is really great.
9 Oct 2011, 13:24 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-244:
Let’s see now, you choose guppies and ignore better players from other teams, typical windgat sharkievarkie.
Lambie, slow coach himself is a little fly compared to Taute
JPP is a has been and should be dropped for JJ Engelbrecht
Mvovo ahead of Mapoe, yeah
Deysel plays one match at lock and sharkievarkie coma picks him as the next Bok lock.
Beast is no Guthro and Coenie owns him.
So go ahead sharkievarkies, pick your chokers for Bok duty.
9 Oct 2011, 13:24 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-248: I want Carel Dup as backline coach! Just make sure Nienaber stays close. If not him, then the Cheetah one (Hawies?). Someone who knows what it means to run into space at different angles and can teach that to our players.
9 Oct 2011, 13:27 pm
@coma(coma)-229: Good team
and if this lot would have realized you cannot take a team for 8 years running (yes almost entire front 5 were from Streauli’s era – Smit, CJ, Matfield, Botha, Burger, Smith – before Jake) and expect them to win a WC twice in a row..
NZ tried it in 91, Aussie tried it in 95, England tried it in 2007, SA tried it in 2011.. – Its a sure recipe for failure.. but they still tried it against far better judgment of starting new talents when they are fresh.. not after they have staled out on the bench or out the reckoning altogether….
9 Oct 2011, 13:29 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-254: good team, since when is Deysel a lock, and JPP is finished, no winger over the age of 25 should play test rugby … they too slow.
9 Oct 2011, 13:30 pm
People knowledgeble in rugby will tell you that a coach selects his captain first and then his team. Schalk is over 30 yrs old. He is over the hill. Look at Wales with their young captain. Nobody questions his captaincy at all. We went into the world cup knowing very well that Smit is not the best and clouded the whole issue. Rugby as a team sport is about thrust in your team mate and I can assure you that when the biographies come out the truth will come out as far as distrust in John is concerned.
You have got to look at the All Blacks, if there is any semblance of doubt in the captain, he gets dropped end of story. No two ways about it. Look at Ruben Thorn. Our journalists are as useless. You have got to watch supersport to believe the length they go justifying John’s captaincy.
9 Oct 2011, 13:30 pm
@nama1(nama1)-251: Gatland is locked in. I could live with HM as head coach. As long as we get a decent backline coach. His legacy at the Bulls may be what the Boks and we as supporters need. Hopefully not the timeframe he achieved it though.
9 Oct 2011, 13:30 pm
It is a highly debatable claim and certainly the refs went out of their way to try to get Australia over the line in 2003. But you would not rule out this Rugby World Cup being decided on a shonky decision.
Mr Bryce Lawrence, the son of an official, is rated rather highly by those in charge of the whistle blowers. But a lot of players and fans have absolutely no idea why. He made a complete hash of today’s game between Australia and South Africa and the Springboks will be furious.
They identified the breakdown as a crucial area of the match beforehand, but they did expect there to be some sort of reffing.
The South Africans thought that the tackler would have to release the ball carrier. They thought that the offside line would be respected. They thought that men would have to stay on the feet. Instead it was a complete shambles.
The trouble is that Lawrence has form at this sort of thing. He was given the final of Super Rugby for apparently being the best ref in the tournament.
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Some of us thought that the South African refs were in an altogether different class. They would also have had the advantage of being neutral as the final was between an Aussie and a Kiwi side. But no, Mr Lawrence got the nod.
And despite all the fantastic players on the pitch, the match became a farce because Lawrence had absolutely no control over the breakdown. Players were diving in on all sides. It became a free-for-all.
What could have been a great game of rugby turned into a mess, because Lawrence did not rule the breakdown.
So should we be surprised at today’s snore. More often than not dull matches are greatly contributed to by the refs inability to be accurate at the contact area. Yes, South Africa are nothing like as efficient there without the great Juan Smith to clean out.
But unless the IRB’s refs get a grip we are going to have some really dull semi-finals. Hopefully the guys who can really get a grip at the breakdown – the South Africans and the Northern Hemisphere refs – will be put in charge of the final four matches.
If we let a Kiwi near the games, then it will be more mayhem. South Africa will feel cheated. And they have every right to complain.
The Aussies have already made one New Zealand ref – Steve Walsh – one of their own. Lawrence could well be next in line for honorary citizenship.
9 Oct 2011, 13:34 pm
@JL1(JL1)-258: C’mon mate. Give it up. The result stands… it’s over. Nothing we say or do will change that. The dream is over. Time to look forward. We get a new coach with, hopefully a fresh outlook.
9 Oct 2011, 13:35 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-241:
Did not PdV entered into a two year contract. It was then extended after we won the 3N and B & I Lions series in 2009, just before we went on the EOYT?
Agree about the two year contract with some performance clauses in it.
80% winning record or you are out.
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-245:
Gary Teichman did not captain any team before he was asked by Natal to become captain after Jamieson retired. He became quite succesful imo, at provincial level and international level. I’ve seen him being quite vocal on the field many times and I’m sure his fellow players hold him in high regard as a player and as a person.
Yes it is a gamble, but who else is there if you look to your captain taking you through to 2015?
Bismark?
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-250:
You’ll also remember that Schalk got injured in the first test of that series opening the door for HB. So, it was not just his performance that had selected. Schalk’s injury probably played a much bigger role in his selection for the rest of the series.
9 Oct 2011, 13:36 pm
PDV will leave witha legacy equally kak to all previous bok coaches…
Saru should realise that there isn’t a white coach in South Africa who is capable of sanitising the poisoned chalice. They all suffer from incestuous thinking.
Time to kill the Bok and allow the Protea to take its rightful place
9 Oct 2011, 13:37 pm
@RL(RL)-255:
Aplon is almost 30 and still a better winger than both Habana and JPP who are younger than him…
I posted my team somewhere on another thread i play Alberts at 4 Lock with Bekker
I play Louw or Burger at 8, probably preferably Louw.
Steenkamp / Beast
Bismark / Chili / Strauss
Coenie
Alberts / Mostert
Bekker
Brussow
Louw / Burger
Burger / Louw
Hougaard / Duvenhage
Goosen / Steyn
Mvovo / Mapoe
Steyn / De Jongh
Fourie / Mapoe
Mapoe / Aplon
Lambie
Something like that
9 Oct 2011, 13:38 pm
Here is your young team, only need a gas man in the 11 jersey and an enforcer lock.
15. Taute
14. Mjekevu
13. Sadie
12. Steyn
11.
10. Goosen
9. Hougaard
8. Vermeulen
7. Alberts
6. Brossow
5. Bekker
4.
3. Cilliers
2. Bissy
1. Coenie
9 Oct 2011, 13:40 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-256:
There’s another school of thought that says, select your best possible team and then make the best player in that team your captain.
9 Oct 2011, 13:40 pm
Yup Smit’s captaincy is what killed the Boks ultimately
Nobody will ever acknowledge that to be the absolute case.. but that is EXACTLY what undid this team from EVERY facet of its compromise.. that is what ultimately ensured that Boks could not win this WC by carrying Smit too far and way beyond any reasonable and rational eligibility
9 Oct 2011, 13:42 pm
Look at the top coaches in world rugby John Mitchell, Eddie Jones, Warren Gatland.
A non-South African who knew what he was doing – one who didn’t have to meet quotas got selected as coach … then I woke up and my coffee was cold.
De Viliers will be remembered as the coach who minimised a great team and lost us our titles. What a tragic mismanagement of talent – unforgivable.
9 Oct 2011, 13:45 pm
Some people still harping on about the refs performance as a reason why we lost.
We lost because of FOURIE DU PREEZ…. but because he is one of the untouchables in SA rugby means that people now have to put the blame somewhere else.
9 Oct 2011, 13:45 pm
@RL(RL)-263: Not bad but Mjekevu is a nothing so far .. I even prefer that Sithole from Sharks
Mapoe can come in at 13 off bench, gotta find another Aplon for 11 if Aplon too old unless Mjekevu improves his handling and control
12 there is Venter and De Jongh
Coenie can play TH better than Cilliers
Gurthro is still tops at 1
9 Oct 2011, 13:45 pm
@nama1(nama1)-264:
Nama
Principle is the same. You select the best man for the job and obviously leadership counts a lot amongst other issues to be considered.
9 Oct 2011, 13:47 pm
@nama1(nama1)-267:
Correct.. so what has Skoppie been screaming the past TWO YEARS
Get rid of Smit, Spies and FdP and we WIN the cup
well waddaya know.. who was correct and who was not ??
9 Oct 2011, 13:48 pm
@nama1(nama1)-260:
Yes I remember.
End of the day I think Peter de Villiers did a much better job then many gave him credit for. He left with dignity. I respect him personally.
Not the best coach we could’ve had, but he put out a Bok team that deserved to win tonight versus a strong Australian side that got away with murder.
He was willing to listen to others. In the end he became nothing more then the media face, and guys like Gold & Muir did the coaching. Credit to him for not being a dictator.
Yes, changes need to be made, but it doesn’t need an overhaul. We have a solid base to build from.
Throw in a few youngsters who can open things up, and we’re back near the top.
Considering the age of the All Blacks, they’re going to have to play very very well next year to match the Boks and Wobblies.
9 Oct 2011, 13:51 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-268: Mjekevu has been playing 13 all season, so his handling should be good now, I would start from scratch with that team. Forget about the losers who have only won 11 from 23 against 3N teams under Divvy.
9 Oct 2011, 13:52 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-270:
Cut it out.
Spies we have mostly all agreed with.
Fourie du Preez I will never agree with. He had the best of Will Genia on the night. His box kicks were pinpoint, and the Boks forced a lot of Wobblies mistakes from them. His passing you guys call poor. Have you played scrumhalf? It’s not a case of getting the ball as quick as possible and passing it. You need support runners, or your flyhalf in place.
And John Smit performed admirably. He had a solid 50mins, before Bismarck came on and did his thing. You can’t blame a referee allowing a free-for-all at rucks on him.
We were beaten by the better team, that consisted of 15 players and a referee.
9 Oct 2011, 13:55 pm
Funny how Rassie has not been mentioned today in terms of this lost. I seem to remember his name popping up after the victories against Fiji and Namibia.
9 Oct 2011, 13:55 pm
@nama1(nama1)-267:
I agree 100% percent with you. Du Preez should have never been part of the world cup team. He is over the hill. We tend to be too sentimental about selection. Our team was too old, some would say experienced. Hogwash, we had over 70% possession/control of the game. Where was the experience the to take us through?
The Aussie coach dropped his captain a few weeks before the world cup began because in his thinking it was the right thing to do. End of story. As the Former CEO of Harmony gold mine would say, create the crisis and then manage it for if you do no act the crisis will manifest itself at some stage and devour you.
9 Oct 2011, 13:56 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-250:
Hey Hennie………………………………………..remember this:
37.hendrikp:
2 Oct 2011, 11:48 am
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-28:
Wales yes. Samoa, no. We had an 8-point lead through pretty much the entire game, and their only try came from a forward pass.
P.S. You’re an idl0t. Come back when the All Blacks choke.
Well we might be chokers……………………………………………..But it takes one to know one.
Suck on that for a while!
8)
9 Oct 2011, 13:57 pm
@nama1(nama1)-267: too old too slow, as one if the fat boys he was never going to lose his place, regardless of form.
9 Oct 2011, 13:59 pm
@cane(cane)-276: isn’t he a convict?
9 Oct 2011, 14:00 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-275:
So sick of this rubbish. You guys need to forget about the players. We lost, end of story, but on the night most of them did their jobs brilliantly.
You really think we’d have played with almost 80% territory without a scrumhalf like Fourie du Preez? You obviously have no idea about what was going on out there. Fourie du Preez has the most dangerous boot of any scrumhalf in rugby, and tactically is brilliant. He just isn’t as dangerous with sniping as Will Genia.
9 Oct 2011, 14:01 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-273:
You are f’ng blind as a bat.. FdP lost us every good go forward ball since 2009, and Smit and Spies are absolute liabilities.. but its history now.. I told you LONG ago persist with this dead beat platform of slow and weak kick chase program and without developing back line game because FdP NULLIFIES it absolutely, and we gonna lose this WC..
Smit should have NOT started and FdP was too slow to effect any decent quick ball to back line .. hence our absolute lack beyond No.10…
Burger and Smit and Matfield and Roussow in Back Line is obviously a Rassie strategy but it is HOPELESS and will NEVER be an effective winning formula
Quick clearing ball from first and second phase breakdown and NO forwards in back line unless they are less than 15 mts from try line, and even then ONLY if they are going to bash and set up QUICK recycle ball.. UNLIKE the SLOW ball Burger , Spies, Roussow and FdP provides…
9 Oct 2011, 14:01 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-273:
Crack, Hennie, crack,
show us you’re real
Smack, hennie, smack, is that all that you feel
Suck, Hennie, suck,
give us your head
Before you start professing
that you’re knocking us dead
Oh well, next week is a new week i suppose
9 Oct 2011, 14:02 pm
du Preez had a good game today, besides his blunder on the tryline, He outplayed his opposition, that savage and his box kicks were spot on just outside the 22. Smit, Spies, Roussouw and PdV cost the Boks. End of discussion. Smit will never be forgiven for doing what he did. He hasn’t just ruined his legacy, but he has ruined his life. This will go with him to his grave. I hope Bismarck punched him in the face after the game.
When does the new coach usually get announced?
9 Oct 2011, 14:02 pm
@cane(cane)-276:
Haha, I guess you could say we choked, yes.
But that guy is an idiot. He doesn’t come here to talk about rugby, he comes here to stir. If he was reasonable I’d have been nice to him.
9 Oct 2011, 14:03 pm
Im happy to see a change at the coaching job coming up with some new game plans and fresh players
De Villiers constantly picked the wrong players (I dont want to name as theres no point wasting time when we all know who they were)
He should have given more game time to the form players…. Willem Alberts, Duane Vermeulen, Danie Russouw, Bismark Du Plessis, Peter Grant, Gio Aplon etc…
At the end of the day any man who compares himself to Nelson Madela just because the colour of his skin and he says hes fighting for change… yes Peter you were given the job not only on rugby credidentials and you have been successful in winning the Tri-Nations and winning the Lions tour.. but the remarks and the times inbetween have been poor.
To tell the press of who your best player is in a position after one game against Fiji (the Frans Steyn – De Villiers issue) is a travesty and De Villiers it was time to go.
The sad thing for bok rugby is that a generation has finished now: Fourie Du Preez, John Smit, Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp, Butch James etc… but the boks must focus on the gifted and great players they have as their replacements:
Patrick Lambie
Francois Hougaard
Andries Bekker
Juandre Kruger
Jano Vermaak
Duane Vermeulen
Willem Alberts
Joshua Strauss
Juan De Jongh
etc…. the future is bright when you look at the talent playing Currie Cup rugby or on the bench for the boks today…
Tough luck on the loss but thats what KO rugby is all about, someone has to lose someone has to win and thats what makes the sport so special when you think of all the effort and pain the players put themselves through to get to this stage…
Losing to Australia is no mean feat and it wasnt like they lost badly things just didnt go their way on the day.
Now look forward to a new fresh look bok side and the rest of the world cup..
9 Oct 2011, 14:05 pm
Happy to see the back of you PDV.
Hope SA rugby has some balls to appoint a proper coach who can mastermind an intelligent game plan and properly manage our star players!
9 Oct 2011, 14:05 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-280:
You don’t come here to debate. You come here to supposedly tell us how it is. Why bother?
9 Oct 2011, 14:05 pm
@RL(RL)-277:
No hendrikp is a Bokke supporter who lives about 15 Km as the crow flies from the Avalon Club Roooms.
Which is where I live.
8)
9 Oct 2011, 14:06 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-286:
As do most of us!
8)
9 Oct 2011, 14:07 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-269:
Not the same principle Peter.
Selecting your captain first because he has the best leadership qualities does not necessarily mean that he automatically command a place in the team because of his playing abilities. John Smit is a case in point.
By selecting your team first before you appoint your captain (out of that team), you ensure that every player in the team is there on merit afa their playing abilities are concerned.
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-270:
Right. Some of us have been vocal about the 8, 9, 10 axis and JS for a while now. Unfortunately, the calls fell on deaf ears.
This is the result.
9 Oct 2011, 14:09 pm
I hope we can find some wings that are truly quick. Habana was that in 2007but he has lost a yard or two in pace which makes him just an average looking winger. The guys like O Conner, Dagg are young and quick and that gives them an edge.
I also think we need someone in the backline that is truly skillful that can make something out of nothing. AB’s had Carter and have SB Williams. Aussies have Cooper.
I dont know if such a player is around in the currie cup?
9 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-279:
In your little mind/opinion you are certainly the only one who is correct. We are sharing opinions here and if everyone’s was THE one then it would certainly not serve it’s purpose. Learn to be TOLERANT of a different view/opinion please. Friendly advice, it wont cost you a cent.
9 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
@Rhys7(Rhys7)-284:
Joshua Strauss will never be a Springbok. He’s like Ernst Joubert. Good player, but not a test player.
Duane Vermeulen might get there, but he won’t last long.
Also not a big fan of Jano Vermaak, but he’s probably 4th-choice behind Duvenage, Pienaar & Hougaard.
We need to forget about making everyone Springboks. No more Bok B-teams, or trying to build depth.
You try win every game with your very best team. You only play the players that deserve to be there, that are the very best in their positions.
The Bok jersey should have more value. No Bulls CC team should be full of unwanted Springboks.
No more 1-cap Boks, or a handful before recalling the first-choice after a rest.
9 Oct 2011, 14:13 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-280: You are worse than a limey – Stop complaining and concede victory – maybe you;ve never participated in sport for long enough to shake hands. Sp easy to find fault. Thought it a great game, though a shame about the result . My wife and i will still enjoy the kiwis against the wallabies even though we’ve traveled so far to see it!
9 Oct 2011, 14:14 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-292: 100%
9 Oct 2011, 14:16 pm
@Peter Mkata(Peter Mkata)-291:
My little mind? Funny… I won’t get into that.
I don’t try break down a player because of a loss, that really was brought about by easily the worst refereeing performance I’ve ever seen.
I have preconceived ideas about a player, but if they change that, I don’t ignore it and try convince everyone how terrible they were anyway.
I believe Fourie du Preez brought value. We played a structured game, dominated territory etc. Fourie du Preez did exactly what was asked of him, and most rugby analysts would agree. In NZ they rave on about the guy.
Yet I should listen to a guy who as far as I know listens to the game on the radio and hasn’t played a game of rugby in his life?
You guys are just sour. We lost… but life goes on. Fourie du Preez especially, does not deserve to have this tarnish his reputation. He’s done a lot for Springbok rugby, and deserved to play in this game, and he played well.
9 Oct 2011, 14:17 pm
@nama1(nama1)-289:
We are splitting hairs here. What you are saying at end of the day is, your captain must be the best in his position. Nobody must question his selection. If that is what you mean then we are talking the same language.
Remember English is my second language.
9 Oct 2011, 14:19 pm
@bokgat1(bokgat1)-293:
Enjoy. If you get a chance I suggest you go to Waiheke Island. Can hire sea kayaks and go around the island if it’s a nice day.
9 Oct 2011, 14:19 pm
@nama1(nama1)-289: When you guys say it like this, you make it sound like our campain was a complete shambles ala 2003 after Kamp Staaldraad! There was not a player in a green jersey today that did not do his job. They were simply outstanding. I had reservations about JdV but even he had a good game. We had the best defensive record in terms of tries scored, were the most disciplined team and eventhough we missed quite a few 1st up tackles, our scrambling was also right up there. Today was about opportunities lost and not adapting to the referee, although having to adapt to a ref is wrong for the game imo. Why can’t they just apply the law as it stands? Anyway point is, there is no shame in losing to Aus in this Qtr final, unlike 2003. Our players, every single one of them left it out there.
9 Oct 2011, 14:22 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-286: so who the fck are YOU to go telling it how it IS..when you are wrong
@bokgat1(bokgat1)-293: and same to you, I could tell you to take a hike in my customary manner or else I tell you politely….
Victory is long ago conceded to the deserving team in this case which is Wallabies.. even though they were lucky and they know it.. that’s the way it panned out.. we were not gonna win this clash for reasons where we conceded superiority some time ago.. not today.. today we fought tooth and nail and narrowly lost by a ball hair and by some dubious decisions we fairly lost.. but we should NOT have had proper preparation been the order PRIOR to kick off…
9 Oct 2011, 14:24 pm
@UptheGuts(UptheGuts)-298:
Spot on. I think the Springboks played a brilliant game, and that Bryce Lawrence allowing Pocock to do whatever he wanted at rucks was what decided the game.
Robbie Deans has basicly said that Pocock’s performance can’t be put into words. That says it all.
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