Burger stands tallest
10 Oct 2011
JON CARDINELLI rates the performances of the Springbok players and coaching staff following their unsuccessful World Cup campaign in New Zealand.
Ratings out of 10 are in brackets. The star performers in each category are in bold.
BACKS:
Back three: Frans Steyn (7) started to find some form at fullback before he was asked to step in at No 12. Steyn provided plenty of physicality and impetus in that channel, but his success must be viewed in context considering he played in that position against the minnows. Pat Lambie (7) started the tournament slowly, but delivered his most rounded performance in the quarter-final. Francois Hougaard (7) was the pick of the wings, mixing a mongrel attitude with a phenomenal attacking talent for spectacular individual attacking results. Gio Aplon (7) was similarly dangerous, although wasn’t used nearly enough over the course of the tournament. The two wings who were, Bryan Habana (5) and JP Pietersen (6), were consistently unimpressive. Habana became South Africa’s top try-scorer when he dotted down against Namibia but was otherwise largely ineffective. Pietersen had his moments against Fiji, but also battled to make decisive breaks and finish. Odwa Ndungane (5) looked ordinary even when he started against Namibia. Zane Kirchner is not rated as he didn’t play a game.
Centres: When the World XVs are compiled at the end of this tournament, Jaque Fourie (7) will be up there as the preferred No 13. His value on defence was evident in the first pool match against Wales and again in the quarter-final showdown with the Wallabies, while he combined well with Jean de Villiers (7) on attack in the latter game. De Villiers left the field early on during that Wales game and played off the bench in the Samoa clash, so his rating is largely based on a strong game against Australia. Juan de Jongh’s (6) two-try success against Namibia should be viewed in context, although there’s no denying he has a special talent.
Halfbacks: Fourie du Preez (6) mixed the measured with the erratic, executing well at some stages of the tournament, and missing the mark horribly at others. He looks to be past his best. Ruan Pienaar played so little rugby that it’s difficult to give him a rating. The man who usurped Pienaar in 2009 for the No 10 jersey also didn’t live up to expectations in many respects. Morne Steyn (5) wasn’t as accurate in front of goal as many would have hoped, and his woeful defence allowed opposition teams free passage through the flyhalf channel. He did nail a great drop goal in the quarter-final against Australia, but looking at the Boks’ campaign as a whole, his shortcomings on defence and attack let the team down. Butch James (6) did not get any opportunities at flyhalf, but turned in a solid defensive display at No 12 against Wales.
FORWARDS:
Back row: What better place to announce that you still have what it takes than on the biggest stage of all? Schalk Burger (9) looked the physical, sadomasochistic hulk of old, but also displayed a more subtle side to his game. His role as a ‘distributor’ in games against Wales and Samoa was influential to the outcome, but it was his ball-carrying surges into heavy traffic and some outstanding defensive displays (he made try-saving tackles against Samoa and Australia) that should be duly glorified. Heinrich Brussow (6) made some positive contirbutions without really dominating, as Sam Warburton won the breakdown battle in the big Pool D opener and David Pocock was the more influential openside flanker before Brussow succumbed to injury in the quarter-final. Francois Louw (6) did well when he was called on to deputise for Brussow, while Willem Alberts (7) was explosive in a bench or staring role. Pierre Spies (5) was consistent considering he failed to front for the big matches.
Locks: Victor Matfield (7) ended his illustrious career in terrific fashion. While he had a relatively quiet game against Wales and missed two pool games through injury, he rose to the quarter-final occasion, generating some important lineout steals as an individual and set-piece manager. Danie Rossouw (7) started this tournament strongly, but his overexposure at the top level in 2011 caught up with him in the latter stages. Bakkies Botha (5) never looked like the enforcer of old, while Johann Muller (6) was also limited by injuries.
Front row: Why wasn’t this guy starting? It’s not so much a question asked by myself than a question screamed by hordes of South African and international spectators every time Bismarck du Plessis (7) took the field. Every time Du Plessis came off the bench, he provided the Boks with go-forward. Peter de Villiers will argue that he is an impact player, but the Boks could have used his mobility, hard edge and breakdown skills from minute one. John Smit (5) tried his hardest at this competition, but was a poor impostor of the John Smit of 2007 and nowhere near the Bismarck du Plessis of 2011. Gurthro Steenkamp (6) and Jannie du Plessis (6) scrummed well, although the latter struggled in open play. The prop with the strongest game in general play, Beast Mtawarira (6) received few opportunities, as the Bok coaching staff favoured the superior scrummager in Steenkamp. CJ van der Linde (6) offered good impact from the bench, while Chiliboy Ralepelle (6) made the most of the few minutes he was given against Namibia during the pool stage.
COACHING STAFF:
Head coach: As the lengthy list of Bok assistants and consultants will show, Peter de Villiers (4) did not go to the World Cup to contribute in the technical department. From a management point of view, the senior players loved their coach because he allowed them carte blanche. He didn’t have the balls to make the tough calls when it came to selection, particularly in the areas of flyhalf and hooker. This weakness cost the Boks big.
Forwards coach: The forwards performed strongly at this World Cup, although the selection of Smit did undermine their cause at the breakdown. Gary Gold (6) did a solid enough job, but it must also be noted that he worked closely with Rassie Erasmus and veterans like Matfield in formulating the forward battle plans.
Backs coach: What has Dick Muir (2) contributed to the Bok game in the last four years? At the beginning of the 2008 season, he convinced De Villiers to favour an all-out approach that shunned structure, and when the players overturned this decision and reverted to what worked in 2007, it was almost as if Muir lost interest. In 2011, the Boks had a defensive coach, a kicking coach and a technical analyst to aid their backline’s development, and in areas like kicking and defence, there was a notable improvement. What failed to evolve was the Boks’ attack, as the poor try-scoring record will show, and Muir must shoulder some of the blame for the backline’s gross underachievement.
219 Comments
10 Oct 2011, 10:57 am
tallest bloodiest dragon burger
10 Oct 2011, 11:01 am
Still on the Jean bandwagon? How about this. Frans has excelled at 12 for four years, and sparked our 2007 campaign to life to eventually lift the World Cup. If you still think he is unproven, still think he is better at fullback, then your articles need to be interpreted in the context that you, just like Keo and his vincent price clone sidekick, are stupid beyond belief. And a 7 to boot. How about an 8 at least? By far one of our best players. Jean was a plodder, up against an even bigger plodder in McCabe.
John a 5? Tell me exactly what Smit did wrong? His ball carrying was very strong, rock solid on defence and his linking play was some of the very best on display at this tournament. You again are a complete idiot. Perhaps more of a fool than that bald moron Keo.
Morne was the best 10 on display, but I see the book sale of Butch to the left of me. Morne was solid all the way through the competition you dunder head. But keep prattling away.
All in all this is a complete waste of time to read. Another pile of tripe written by biased one eyed no-nothing old lunatics that know stuff all about the game and are entirely concerned with making money, pleasing the right people (How’s cheeky these days?), and attacking players and coaches et al that you lot don’t like. Completely unprofessional, guttless cowards. Couldn’t even fathom to credit Smit and Morne. Gutless wenches who couldn’t have the courage to admit that you all were wrong.
10 Oct 2011, 11:02 am
I was uneasy with Lambie at 15 but the kid proved me wrong. Well done Lambs.
10 Oct 2011, 11:03 am
Burger is a mad beyond belief. Much respect for the way he plays the game.
Spies = “train like Tarzan, play like Jane”.
10 Oct 2011, 11:03 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-2: You could see how biased these fools are. Butch gets a 6 for being run through against Wales and essentially being the biggest liability in that game! He did NOTHING. But like I say, the book promotion for Butch is on our right, so Butch has got be rated better than Morne. It’s all about rugby eh? What a joke.
10 Oct 2011, 11:05 am
@HHS(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-3: It’s clear that Lambie is a 15, plain and simple. He flopped at 10, but was solid at 15, much like I expected. He was only ever a retread 10 anyway, one that couldn’t even usurp an over-the-hill Michallak.
10 Oct 2011, 11:07 am
Does JC know anything about rugby ???
10 Oct 2011, 11:10 am
Spies 5
He was worth about 3.
10 Oct 2011, 11:12 am
Alucard – I agree on most of your comments. The article is only correct in its slating of the coach. PDV was a great man manager but not a good coach. The Boks peaked perfectly at 2009 but since then started to decline. We stopped scoring tries against the top tier nations and our tactics became so predictable it wasnt funny!! THe Boks needed Rassie on board a year ago to help out and Nienaber, both their affects were immediate but too late.
The kick chase was a failure in 2010 but the Boks didnt do anything about it.
10 Oct 2011, 11:14 am
@Alucard(Alucard)-5: Yeah it’s shocking, JC has never been known to be subtle about the agenda. Butch was terrible against Wales and he get’s a 6….
Morne had a terrible game against Wales but so did JdV and Jamie Roberts is a monster. I was impressed by Morne’s game, his distribution is really good.
Smit should get a 6 , Gurthro a 7, Hougaard an 8 and FdP a 4.
10 Oct 2011, 11:14 am
Muir must surely rate as one of the worst backs coaches ever.
He has failed to impress at any team and is a fan of playing players out of position.
10 Oct 2011, 11:16 am
alucard – Lambie was a revelation at 15, very very good. Cricky shame his drop goal just drifted wide but it had the distance!! Lambie was getting better with each game, infact we can almost call him rock solid at fullback!!
10 Oct 2011, 11:23 am
Very few players deserve less than 6.
I think Spies and FdP are the only exceptions.
Burger, Lambie, F Steyn, M Steyn, Hougaard, Vic, Bissy, Smit, Guthro, Brussouw, Alberts, JPP, Fourie all deserve a 7 or better
10 Oct 2011, 11:24 am
Helen – Good ratings. Those players did play very well. Spie was a major dissapointment he was grossly out of his depth, except maybe some good lineout work!!
10 Oct 2011, 11:32 am
@dr dre(dr dre)-11:
Agree. I doubt he’ll get another premium job in SA.
Maybe Pukke will take him?
10 Oct 2011, 11:32 am
Burger was awesome all tourney, that cover tackle when he had to turn and recover vs Wallas on Moore was outstanding.
who on Earth thinks Jackie Fourie is a “preferred choice” in a World XV – other than Jackie herself – needs his head read.
10 Oct 2011, 11:37 am
@Helen(Helen)-13: agreed (except for Morne, he was a 6 overall – mainly his defensive frailties). Smit is no Bismarck, but had a good tournie and Jaques Fourie was a 6.5 – I think he is a great player, but wasn’t at his best this WC. Beast also did nothing wrong – I’d add him to the list.
10 Oct 2011, 12:08 pm
If we can find a really decent no 9 and 10 somewhere, I’d like to see a future backline consisting of Steyn (Frans – obviously) at 12, Fourie at 13, Hougaard at 11, JPP (I’m not too precious about this one though) at 14 and Lambie at 15.
I really enjoyed the way Lambie and Hougi combined when at wing and fullback.
Maybe Jantjes or that Goosen bloke from the Cheetahs at 10.
No 9′s? I don’t know. Cupboard is looking a bit bare. I think McCleod is the front runner at this stage, not based on skill but because he was the back up to the back up.
10 Oct 2011, 12:28 pm
jon, thanks for another biased article, u have done wel again to highlight ur favourtie players and annoy everyone here again, “Pierre Spies (5) was consistent considering he failed to front for the big matches”…i can tell u one thing about spies is that he was consistently KAK!!! by far the worst bok of the wc and yet u give me a 5?? bru that ridiculious, my rating for him is in the negative figures!!! butch a 6? for a whole 50min or so?? dude…….. Smit was good through the tournament, didnt put a fot wrong, yes he is no bissy but you just have no respect for te guy, Pat deserves a 8-9 no doubt, habana also deserves negative figures, jp deserves a 3
im gna stop venting nw and say this and i think i spk for alot of ppl
I HOPE I NEVER SEE HABANA AND SPIES IN A BOK JERSEY AGAIN!!!
10 Oct 2011, 12:29 pm
@capebull(capebull)-7:
nope he doesnt
10 Oct 2011, 12:31 pm
@Cruiser(Cruiser)-4:
So true man, well said
10 Oct 2011, 12:34 pm
Real rugby tests are about inches
“You find out that life is just a game of inches.
So is Rugby
Because in either game
life or Rugby
the margin for error is so small.
I mean
one half step too late or to early
you don’t quite make it.
One half second too slow or too fast
and you don’t quite catch it.
The inches we need are everywhere around us.
They are in ever break of the game
every minute, every second.”
Australia won a true test of inches and David Pocock is the master of the final inch in the ground war. Australia beat us at the Boks own traditional game of defence, pressure, and low possession. They did to us what we did to Wales in the opening game.
It is a pity the Boks decided to play in the high possession, offloading style, which we saw glimpses of in their pool games, only in this world cup. After years of playing differently, the Boks showed an all round game which surprised observers of the quarter final who expected the Wallabies to “play all the rugby”. Because of this, I believe the Boks in effect made themselves novices in attack against a Wallaby side of veterans in defence.
A few weeks ago I believed we were to see a reffing disgrace of huge proportions involving the Boks however I expected this in the Semi-final, not the quarter final. I really believe that if Barnes, Poitre and yes, even Rolland, reffed that match we most probably would have ended up 10 points the better over the Wallabies.
But not to be. Lawrence reffed the match and despite his officiating we were able to see a titanic clash fought in great spirit – a contrast to the filth of the Samoa match.
The Boks have no shame in losing this match because each of them gave their all on the field.
Certain players stood out more than others, like Gurthro, Matfield, Burger, Flo (a heroic game where he plugged the breakdown leaks to an extent when he came on), FdP (pin point accuracy of old and inches from a try), JdV (inches from an excellent pass) and JPP.
In a day of one team coming of age, and another drawing the curtains on an era, we saw a certain Pat Lambie come of age and give a performance that was Jouba-esque in Ice cold calm under fire and decision making . But he lost his game of inches – taking a pass marginally forward, and a whisker of a drop goal miss that would have been the difference between winning and losing.
The Boks deserved to win the game, definitely, but it could be said the Wallabies did too – they played the ground war margins, were indomitable in defence and at a time halfway into the 2nd half when they looked like cracking under sheer Bok weight of pressure, they pulled themselves back from the brink by unbelievable willpower and BMT will to win. Pocock showed that he is peerless and Horwill showed that he is a leader who will be followed to a World Cup win.
What a game, sad to lose, but in great games there has to be a winner and a loser. The Boks were proud losers in a game of inches and the Wallabies were deserved winners just by sheer will power of not breaking to immense Bok power. May they go on and win this World Cup against France or Wales in the Final, hopefully another game of inches – they will be worthy champions.
10 Oct 2011, 12:36 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-22:
any given sunday, nice
10 Oct 2011, 12:39 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-22:
that speech is by far te best thing ive ever listened to, still gives me goosebumps, but anyways in 4 yrs time we will be champions,
10 Oct 2011, 12:40 pm
6 for Butch James !!!! please he enjoy his holiday in New Zealand. I used to be the biggest fan of his and unfortunilty since coming back from up north he has not shown any form at all.
10 Oct 2011, 12:41 pm
My QF ratings
15 Lambie 8
14 JPP 7
13 Mossie 6
12 JdV 8
11 Habana 6
10 Steyn 7
9 FdP 7
8 Spies 6
7 Schalk 9
6 Brossouw 5
5 Matfield 8
4 Rossouw 6
3. JdP 7
2. Smit 7
1. Gurthro 9
Bench: Flo 8, Bismarck 7, Hougie 7, Alberts 6.
10 Oct 2011, 12:43 pm
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-24: I say fark Champions “in 4 years”. I would like the Boks to be Champions in every match from now on.
I do not ever want to hear “We are building for the world cup” ever again.
10 Oct 2011, 12:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-26:
I would say pretty much spot on, but i would give Habana a 9 for getting the most and biggest hits put against him only to get up, albeit slowly but straight back into it, one tough guy
10 Oct 2011, 12:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-27:
lol
10 Oct 2011, 12:46 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-27:
i agree with you completely, lets just hold our thumbs and wait and c who is coach, i really hope its mitchell, but my choice would b eddie jones
10 Oct 2011, 12:47 pm
btw i hear frans wants to come bak to sa, anyone heard where he might go??? word is that J.Fourie might b going to japan??
10 Oct 2011, 12:58 pm
Bok side going forward:
15 Lambie
14. JPP
13. Sadie
12. Frans Steyn/JdJ
11. A.N. Other (Boks need another Habana 2007)
10. Goosen/Ebersohn/Jantjies need to fight it out
9. A.N. Other (Boks need another Joost prototype)
8. A.N. Other
7. Schalk
6. Brussouw
5. Bekker
4. Mostert
3. Jannie DuP/ Boks are in desperate need of another tighthead
2. Bismarck
1. Gurthro/Beast
Headcoach: Must be South African. Brendan Venter, Mallet, Meyer
Support: Rassie, Nienaber, Mitchell
Brief/Goal: Win 80% of games played
10 Oct 2011, 13:00 pm
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-30: The head coach must be South African. Got no problem with Jones or Mitchell being support.
10 Oct 2011, 13:01 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-32: Stupid of me: Brussouw and Flo for openside. They must fight it out
10 Oct 2011, 13:03 pm
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-31: Frans back to the Sharks. End of.
10 Oct 2011, 13:09 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-29: Never, ever again. The Boks goal has to be 80%
In effect this means 4/4 100% of EOYT, 4/6 66% of 3N, 2/2 100% Mid year tests with room for error of 1 game lost.
10 Oct 2011, 13:12 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-36:
Thats the way mate.
10 Oct 2011, 13:12 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-32:
11. mvovo, killian, taute or even van de hever?
9. i think in time conrad hoffman could be something but im prob gna get slated for that haha, otherwise right nw i recon, Vermaak,hougaard, and Duvenager
8. we gotta have alberts , spies can never b near a bok jersey again, we also have to find space for juan smith, josh strauss and derrick minnie as well as Elstadt, even flow, we are so lucky to have all these blokes for the boks
Locks: Elstadt can feature there too?but this is my main concern for the future boks i feel we are thin at lock
3. Agree we need another tight head, coenie might develop? but again we are very thin here, werner kruger is bout the only option right nw?? no one stands out
Coach: would love Eddie jones, but not gna happen, hope mitchell gets it with a mix of AC,Rassie and brendan venter maybe even smal again
10 Oct 2011, 13:12 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-33:
I wonder if SARU will force another quota on the long suffering rugby public.
10 Oct 2011, 13:15 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-37: Bok administrators have much to answer for. They are the rotting fish head. They need to look out for Numero Uno and that is SA Rugby. They have been very poor custodians.
10 Oct 2011, 13:20 pm
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-38: No mate, you speak sense about Hoffman. I rate him too.
I reckon your other choices: Elstadt, Minnie, Strauss are excellent too. Bygod we have the talent.
We have great enforcer options at lock – we just need another couple of “jumpers” like Bekker.
Tighthead is a problem. We have plenty good looseheads.
10 Oct 2011, 13:26 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-39:
Nah, one Spies was enough.
10 Oct 2011, 13:41 pm
JC you are a low life. Butch 6 Morne 5??
10 Oct 2011, 13:41 pm
I dont post a lot of comments, but I read this website everyday, and also enjoy having a laugh at the comments of some of the regular bloggers. But all in all my view of JC is that he is a child over the Morne Steyn situation. Im sure most of the Bok supporters wetted themselves when they showed Butch warming up with 10min to go, JC probably too, but definetely a different wetness. This is pathetic journalism, and in stead of getting behind the boys, he keeps on going on and on and on about Morne Steyn. The result wouldve been different if Butch played, it wouldve been 11 – 6 to Aussies as Butch would never have slotted that penalty. Morne passed 36 times, and took the ball flat. He was calm and collective and played a great match, and a great tournament. I wouldve liked him to be more authorative and overuled management calls by sitting in the pocket more, but he did really well. butch was great in 2007, but his erratic, and gave away a stupid penalty against wales. JC – grow up, and if you dont like the selection, be atleast objective and more importantly professional.
10 Oct 2011, 13:42 pm
correction, drop kick not penalty
10 Oct 2011, 13:43 pm
@Blou Hoender(Blou Hoender)-44:
You sir have the right idea, spot on man
10 Oct 2011, 13:45 pm
Bok job – Who’s next in line?
Sun, 09 Oct 2011 12:09
Some contenders: Who would your choice be as the new Bok coach? (c) Gallo
In the aftermath of Sunday’s news that Peter de Villiers would be stepping down as Springbok coach after four years in charge, we thought we would take a stab at choosing his possible replacement.
Love him or hate him, P Divvy certainly entertained us during his four-year (48-game) tenure and the next Bok boss will certainly find himself under the microscope too.
So, who then are the contenders to follow in the footsteps of De Villiers, Jake White, Rudolf Straeuli, Harry Viljoen, Nick Mallett (to name just a few before him)?
Well, it would be hard to argue against the claims of Allister Coetzee and names like Rassie Erasmus and Heyneke Meyer will always crop up. And what about some darkhorses like the two Kiwi Johns – Mitchell and Plumtree – or promoting Bok assistant coach Gary Gold to the top job?
You would have to think that all five of SA’s Super Rugby coaches would be contenders – otherwise why else are they coaching at that level? – and there are also a few other contenders in SA.
Someone like SA Under-20 coach Dawie Theron is kicking about and it would be remiss of us not to mention Nick Mallett’s name – after all he has been ‘shortlisted’ for every top rugby job since resigning as Bok boss in 2000. (For those unsure – mentioning Mallett is simply a stab at humour… we need some laughs in SA today!)
And what, too, about SA Sevens boss Paul Treu; would he ever think about moving into a top fifteen-a-side coaching job?
And is Brendan Venter – although quite a far-out contender – a name worth mentioning now that he’s back in SA? (And despite still serving as Saracens’ technical advisor.)
With all of that in mind, we take a look at some potential contenders as Peter de Villiers’s replacement:
(In alphabetical order)
ALLISTER COETZEE:
The Western Province and Stormers coach is a better coach than he was in 2008 – when many wanted him to take over from White. He is media-savvy enough (even if he tends to be a bit clichéd) and he has the experience of having served under White for four years – including the 2007 World Cup win in France.
Pros: He has coached the likes of Bekker, Burger, Fourie – all of whom are expected to form the nucleus of the Bok side moving forward. He has done okay with WP in the 2011 Currie Cup – despite his limited resources.
Cons: For all the promise shown with the Stormers and WP, they have not won a trophy under him and have imploded in two finals (Currie Cup and Super Rugby) and one home semifinal (Super Rugby) in recent years.
NAKA DROTSKÉ:
A Currie Cup winner – as a player and coach – Drotské continues to produce good results at provincial level, despite struggling at Super Rugby level where the Cheetahs’ depth has always worked against them.
Pros: He has done well with limited resources at the Cheetahs – unearthing some good talent in the process; a name like Johan Goosen topping that list at present.
Cons: Coaching the Cheetahs, in a small, rugby-mad town is a very, very different prospect to taking on the Bok job. He also recently signed a new three-year contract with the Cheetahs – they would not be keen to let him go.
RASSIE ERASMUS:
Erasmus has, for long, been considered as something of a coaching messiah. He achieved a lot with Free State – including three Currie Cup wins – and has since helped rebuild WP Rugby, even though they have no senior trophies to show for their efforts.
Pros: One of SA’s most astute rugby brains, he played a big role as a technical advisor to the Boks ahead of the 2007 and 2011 World Cups. Always capable of thinking out of the box and he has unearthed a host of new, young stars in Cape Town during his time in charge at Western Province.
Cons: What does he want to do? Does he want to remain in charge of WP? What about his rugby version of cricket’s IPL? Did he make any friends with SARU’s – and the IRB’s – top brass by attempting that little venture? Does he want the Springbok coaching job?
GARY GOLD:
Why are assistant coaches always tarred with the same brush as their bosses? Gold has added plenty value in the Bok set-up under De Villiers and a case could be made for him to stay involved in some capacity – at worst.
Pros: He’s been part of the Bok camp under De Villiers these past four years – he knows the systems and would provide some continuity moving forward. He is well-travelled and is a hard worker behind the scenes.
Cons: See above – that works for and against him; for good reason(s) and bad.
FRANS LUDEKE:
Ludeke, 43, has many supporters up north – in Pretoria. He knows his rugby and has been around for a while, having coached at SWD and the Lions too.
Pros: He has been involved in the Bok set-up before – albeit as an assistant. He would have the Bulls support – although would that still exist in the Bok squad without Matfield, Du Preez and co.?
Cons: How much of his success – two Super Rugby titles and a Currie Cup win – has been based on the work of Heyneke Meyer before him? Would his poor results at the Lions count against him?
HEYNEKE MEYER:
The 44-year-old would be the peoples’ choice – the question is; is he available for the job after the way he was treated in 2008 (when Divvy controversially got the job ahead of him)? He has won multiple titles and has, over the years, been the ‘go-to’ man for the likes of Matfield, Du Preez, etc.
Pros: Probably the most outstanding man for the job – his CV speaks for itself.
Cons: He recently moved into a new position at the Bulls – that of ‘Executive: Rugby’. He has gone on record as saying he would not be available – but would he say no if his demands were met? Also, with all his senior Bulls men out of the picture, would the players want him so badly?
JOHN MITCHELL:
The former All Blacks coach seems to have found his calling in South Africa – having been released from his job with the Force to make the full-time move to SA last year. (Was that **** Muir’s best coaching move ever?) He has done very well in the 2011 Currie Cup, guiding his team to a home semifinal (ironically their first since under the tutelage of another Kiwi, Laurie Mains, in 1999), and getting them to play some exciting rugby in the process.
Pros: He has the experience at the highest level with the All Blacks, even if it did end in tears at the 2003 Rugby World Cup, with a brilliant win/loss ration during his time in charge.
Cons: He’s a foreigner – despite having his own ‘truly SA’ moment when he found a criminal in his house last year. His Currie Cup success – so far – this season has been achieved without the rest of the country’s top players in action, all of whom have been on World Cup duty.
JOHN PLUMTREE:
A great pal of Mitchell’s and half a South African – in that he’s married to an SA woman and having played provincial rugby for the Natal Sharks in the 1990s. A deep thinker, with a very good track-record at provincial level and some success at Super Rugby level too.
Pros: He boasts success at the Sharks, having won Currie Cup titles in 2008 and 2010. He knows SA players very well, as well as NZ’s best players – having coached someone like Ma’a Nonu at provincial level back home.
Cons: He’s a foreigner. Some of his player management, at times, also seems a bit iffy – nevermind some odd recruitment happening at the Sharks.
PAUL TREU:
A bright man who is very passionate about what he does, many have tipped Treu for a bright future in (bigger) coaching. All that depends on whether he is interested in pursuing something at 15-a-side level or not.
Pros: He has achieved a lot with the SA Sevens team – leading them to the overall world title in the 2008/09 season and helped shape a host of big-name players in their younger days.
Cons: He is entrenched as the Springbok Sevens coach. Why would he want to leave that relative comfort the job entails?
Our final verdict:
As tempting as it might be to give foreigners like Mitchell or Plumtree a go (imagine them as a combination?), one cannot look further than Coetzee or Erasmus as the likely – and more realistic – options right now.
10 Oct 2011, 13:46 pm
My Bok team for 2012 without overseas based players.
1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie
4. Flip
5. Bekker
6. Brussouw
7. Burger (C)
8. Alberts
9. Hougaard
10. M. Steyn
11. Mvovo
12. De Jongh
13. Jaque Fourie (VC)
14. JPP
15. Lambie
16. Chiliboy/Adrian Strauss
17. Coenie
18. Elstadt/Juandre Kruger
19. Spies/Vermeulen/Kanko/Strauss
20. Duvenage/Vermaak/Hoffman
21. De Jongh
22. Aplon
10 Oct 2011, 13:48 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-47: “Well, it would be hard to argue against the claims of Allister Coetzee”…. No, it would actually be quite easy.
10 Oct 2011, 13:48 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-48:
boet please never meantion spies’s name again near a bok team, i think i will cry if he ever pull on the green and gold
10 Oct 2011, 13:50 pm
MITCHELL MITCHELL GIVE IT TO MITCHELL
10 Oct 2011, 13:52 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-48: Excluding overseas players is a nonsense of the highest order.
10 Oct 2011, 13:53 pm
btw which of these keo ******* helped with butch’s autobiography??
10 Oct 2011, 13:53 pm
Gold and Muir need to be sent to Rugby purgatory… forever.
10 Oct 2011, 13:54 pm
M O N K E Y S is a censoured word on KEO hahahahahaha
10 Oct 2011, 13:55 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-54: agree send them to build zimbabwes team for the world cup in 2050,they are kak.
10 Oct 2011, 13:55 pm
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-53: Who the **** cares. It is a book I will never read and I recommend to anyone with half a brain never to read either.
10 Oct 2011, 13:56 pm
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-51: no we need him with the lions ,u can have plumtree
10 Oct 2011, 13:57 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-57: so u are saying that peter div will read it?
10 Oct 2011, 13:57 pm
@Duke01(Duke01)-56: Poor Zimbabwe. No.
10 Oct 2011, 13:57 pm
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-55: no it is not,u can say blue bulls here
10 Oct 2011, 13:58 pm
@Duke01(Duke01)-58:
im gatvol of plum i mean who in their right mind would actually ever play bosman, he is in the useless catagory along with habana and spies
10 Oct 2011, 13:58 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-48:
What about Juan Smith?
10 Oct 2011, 13:59 pm
@David(David)-42:
Your mom should have called you Mielie…
10 Oct 2011, 13:59 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-60: sorry ,i mean congo
10 Oct 2011, 14:00 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-52: It was just to highlight what talent we have at home. I will obviously include F.Steyn on any run on team.
10 Oct 2011, 14:01 pm
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-62: but he will hear what mitchel have to say,not like the others
10 Oct 2011, 14:01 pm
@Duke01(Duke01)-59: Any dumbfck who will actually buy it, probably deserves it especially in light of:
- keo.co.za’s naked promotion of Butch over M Steyn during RWC 2011
- guaranteed non-literary merit
- the author is no John Carlin (Invictus)
- the subject, as much as I like him, is no Bok great.
10 Oct 2011, 14:02 pm
@toothgnasher(toothgnasher)-63: If he is up to playing international test rugby then yes i will include him in that squad. He is a fragile case….one more concussion and his career is over.
10 Oct 2011, 14:02 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-66: And Flo? He was excellent yesterday. He will be playing at Bath.
10 Oct 2011, 14:02 pm
@Duke01(Duke01)-67:
sory u lost me man, wat u talking bout?
10 Oct 2011, 14:04 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-70: Also Sarel Pretorius must be given a Bok jersey if only to scupper any faint chances of Wallaby representation.
Its called looking after Numero Uno – the Bok.
10 Oct 2011, 14:15 pm
Plumtree at the Sharks must be made to play Lambie at 15 from now on.
10 Oct 2011, 14:19 pm
same dumb fck hero worshiping that cost us this WC they still wanna carry on praising Schalk Burger to the rooftops when its same Schalk Burger that cost us the 1/4 final by his dumb fck move of going to ground in front of hid posts and not securing ball gifting Aussie their only try. Rest of game he tackled everything that moved but also fckd up momentum by playing fly half entire game so no hope of any tries coming from our side. Rassie f’ng enterprising rugby of filling backline with forwards to stuff up any chance of any momentum development in backline with a SLOW FdP stuffing up the rest.
Get rid of ALL these palookas , entire JW team and start again, that’s the way forward.. Complete fresh start sweep clean from bottom to top all the way through.
And stop making hero’s from f’ng villains like Smit FdP Burger and the rest, next they touting Burger for next captaincy, biggest mistake they could make.
10 Oct 2011, 14:20 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-70: Yes Flo was very good yesterday. i would first look at what is available at home. There are lots of young openside flankers coming through the ranks.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-72: Sarel Pretorius is already in his late 20′s and is a liability on defence. Rather develop a younger scrumhalf like Hoffman or Duvenage.
10 Oct 2011, 14:25 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-73: Yes. I am not a big fan of Lambie but he impressed me yesterday in the 15. That is his future. We are well covered otherwise at Flyhalf with Morne Steyn, Elton Jantjies, Johan Goosen, Gary van Aswegen, Lionel Cronje all coming through nicely.
10 Oct 2011, 14:32 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-75: Yeah, Hoffman may be a good one.
And may we never, ever hear “we’re building for the RWC”… An 80% win record by year 2 should be the goal of the new coach.
10 Oct 2011, 14:33 pm
@Alucard I concur, herery, herery.
The players gave a performance that the Ozies could do nothing to but defend. It was very very fustrating game to watch from a Springbok point of view. Our Problem and our only problem— could not execute, could not put in the finishing touch.
DePreez knock on at goal line time, Burger loosing the ball at goal line time, isolated backs come breakdown time. With that performance, bar finishing touch time, we should have won that game by 30 points easily.
Did we panick a bit come executing the last move, or was the Wbs defense really that amaising? I would say both. I think executing the last move has been a problem for yrs for us.
So we point at the coaches because they ( PdV then chooses his 2nd 3rd coach) are to be blamed. But hold on, they were racially selected, so I wont even blame them.
So we Fully blame the Govt and SARU who forced SARU to performed bullshite racist motives.
And may they cop on to the fact that transformation is racism. You cant force people to play a game they dont want to, nor you cant force selection of a race over another and call yourself liberal. That is very far from a rainbow nation, what does Mandela think? PdV(the poor escape goat used) is a perfect example of the Govt doing the dirty and look what happened.
A perfectly nice person, whom people cant imagine if they placed their feet in his shoes and were offered the job, (hell i would have taken the job), is seen as,.. well everyone has their thoughts on him.
… and i could go on about them….£$^&%.
The Abs can only be stoked we are knocked out, we would have, could have’s, but’s , if’s…. etc, ahh it’s fustrating…….
There was no stoping the Green machine to the final, no way in hell, if’sbut’scouldhave’s we knew how to execute the final move.
A young inexperiened side were able to stop us………………….
Lets stand up to all this transformation racist Govt bullshite, and say no more.
We want our history back, the part of history where we were the most dominent rugby team for 50 yrs. Thats what we want back. We want back out win record over the Abs back to what is was,… in the 60% plus. Thats who we were lets bring it back.
I sleep, breath and **** rugby thats because rugby runs in my veins and its been running in my my veins for a very long time, a 111 yrs to be exact.
10 Oct 2011, 14:34 pm
How do you only give Bismarck du Plessis a 7 – more like 11 or 12. In the push of the scrum, in foraging and fetching in the rucks and mauls, driving and tackling and ingredient X stuff (like his charge down against the Wallabies that nearly gave a us a try), and “impact” impact, inspiration to his comrades, uncanny levels of anticipation, du Plessis was so far ahead of any other hooker you’ve ever seen – all the top boys say this: Sean Fitzpatrick, Keith Woods to name a few … where do you get 7 from? The man is one-off freak of nature and deserving of the adjective ‘genius’.
10 Oct 2011, 14:38 pm
How’s this for an out of the box thought:
Bismarck as the next Bok Captain ?
10 Oct 2011, 14:40 pm
@Greenies(Greenies)-78:
Which 50 years was that?
10 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm
In a game of inches I spotted one big selection error.
Beast not on the bench.
He would have been very useful the last 10 mins.
10 Oct 2011, 14:47 pm
if Bismark and Alberts would have started and Louw and Aplon come on 2nd half and Hougaard to scrummy ahead of FdP Boks would still be in the competition I’m 99.5 % sure
10 Oct 2011, 14:54 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-83: Disagree in everything except Alberts.
Louw played brilliantly, for sure, but no-one was to know that he was anything other than an insurance policy.
But now we all know how well he can play at the highest level. He and Brossouw must fight it out next year for the openside position.
10 Oct 2011, 14:56 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-80:
computer says no.
after his petulant display against the all blacks in pe that guy has no business captaining a rowboat.
let alone the boks.
schalk it is.
10 Oct 2011, 14:56 pm
They are still losers – ratings mean nothing – winning is winning
10 Oct 2011, 15:00 pm
@stew(stew)-86:
shut it twatstick.
players get ratings all the time.
win or lose.
10 Oct 2011, 15:04 pm
Beast and Bismark were sacrificed for John Smit, neither Butch nor CJ nor Aplon were used off bench though we couldn’t score a try in 80 min with all the midfield ineffective carrying of Burger, Roussow, Matfield, Spies and JdV who was the only one making inroads through defences.
Hougaard should have played 9, Aplon should have come on for Habana, Louw for Brussow, Bismark and Alberts should have started Beast and Smit and Spies and FdP off bench, and ONLY used if they were needed. Gurthro and Jannie played entire 80 mins – Steenkamp was my MOM he put it all out there all 80 min long, but fresh Beast would have made impact.
Smit cost Boks this WC, I said it over two years ago that was the single catalyst gonna do the damage and so it has, now its come to pass and they still dunno WTF actually happened, when all they gotta do is face facts. Smit happened that’s why they couldn’t beat Aussie in 6 from 7 starts and the one they did win was at Loftus where Smit departed and left Matfield Beast and Bismark to close out the game.
Chili would have been better sub to Smit, Bismark should have started with Chili and Beast off bench.
Can’t cry over spilled milk but that’s what fckd Boks WC campaign, J. Smit, and secondly Spies and FdP, look no further than that.
10 Oct 2011, 15:07 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-85: Fair enough. It was an “out there” question.
I think of Schalk similarly especially after seeing his Sulk Burger display in the Currie Cup final 2010.
I suspect he will be a mistake of huge proportions as Captain of the Boks.
.
10 Oct 2011, 15:11 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-89:
Be that as it may, I can’t see them looking past him.
he was basically captaining the team against Samoa already whilst big vic just stood there and platted his beard.
10 Oct 2011, 15:13 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-88: I think people need to see your rugby opinions for what they are:
- repetitive
- bitter shitstirring
- minimal validity
- hypocritical
Your views on life can be a laugh a minute and your re-envisioned English language hilarious, but on rugby – nothing but spilled grains of salt to be flung over the shoulder.
10 Oct 2011, 15:17 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-85: I think Bismark is a great Hooker, but he is by no means captain material. Anyone that watches “Boer soek vrou” Cannot ever be a rugby national team captain.
10 Oct 2011, 15:17 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-90: Yeah maybe. But there is a degree of petulance that will not help the Boks get to an 80% win ratio which should be the goal from now on.
Maybe Schalk has improved since 2010 as a leader. I hope so if he is to be made Captain.
10 Oct 2011, 15:21 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-92:
watch it?
I’m suprised he wasn’t in it.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-93:
I don’t see schalk as petulant at all.
He played that game with broken ribs if I remember.
I like a skipper who leads from the front.
10 Oct 2011, 15:21 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-92: Just like anyone who supports the AB’s over the Boks in the present day does not deserve to call themselves a true South African.
10 Oct 2011, 15:24 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-77: Agreed. The coach must get a two year deal with the option to extend another 2 years.
10 Oct 2011, 15:27 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-94:” Pump by die dam pump”
…..I am surprized too. Maybe next season we’ll see him feature. Not that I have any idea how they find wifes for these farmers.
10 Oct 2011, 15:27 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-94: If you haven’t seen schalk being petulant on the field then you might be blinding yourself to his failings.
I too like a skipper who leads from the front, but I would also like a skipper not to put his fingers in opposing players eyes in the heat of the moment…
Corne Krige was also a skipper who “led from the front”…
10 Oct 2011, 15:28 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-84:
You forget his 2 MOMs.
10 Oct 2011, 15:28 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-90: Vics beard looked very glossy and shiny yesterday. Must be using a new shampoo.
10 Oct 2011, 15:32 pm
after what david pocock did on sunday i’m waiting for a fool like taine randell to tell us that richie mccaw is still the best opensider in international rugby
i counted 5 or 6 turnovers by pocock yet we are told daily that mccaw has “altered” his game to compensate for the change in laws that has lessened the ability of players to pilfer.
10 Oct 2011, 15:33 pm
for me it can only be schalk….
no one leads better from the front in the thick of the action better than him…
sure he’s made mistakes… don’t they all… don’t we all… but at least he recognises them and develops… he still plays hard as hell but is not longer the yellow-card carrying member of the team any more… how come we forgive so many other players their ‘sins’ but not burger…
i don’t know why so many saffas still don’t rate the guy… players and supporters from other countries all rate him very highly…
as i said… for me, there can only be one.. and that is schalk…
IMO
10 Oct 2011, 15:33 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-96: As it should be. The coach also should not be setup to fail: He must be able to select who he wants and have adequate time with his team.
If that means SARU compensating Provincial Unions for player time with Boks then so be it.
10 Oct 2011, 15:34 pm
@David(David)-99: Insurance for Brussouw. But he was good.
10 Oct 2011, 15:35 pm
@ufo(ufo)-102: no, you are biased! as schalk’s no.1 Fanboy your vote is disqualified.
even if schalk gouged you would tell us fitzgerald brought his face on to schalk’s fingers
10 Oct 2011, 15:36 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-100:
I think it’s this new product they are making down fish hoek way.
A s s shampoo.
Cleans even the dirtiest hair.
10 Oct 2011, 15:37 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-80: about as out of the box as when I said it 12 months and six months ago.
10 Oct 2011, 15:38 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-106: Yeah, I think I’ll pass. The name of the product just sounds too vicious.
10 Oct 2011, 15:40 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-101: I love McCaw, you know I do. But Pocock is top dog at the moment. He was a demon yesterday.
10 Oct 2011, 15:40 pm
As a supporter of England, I half hope a rugby dunce like skopplop gets the bok coaching job! How anyone can think that Schalk Burger on world cup form was anything other then brilliant and a true asset to his nations rugby team is beyond me. Either the reasons aren’t rugby related or he knows nothing about rugby, take your pick.
It would have to take some pretty huge performances by other players still in the tournament to prevent him from walking into the world XV at the end of the tournament. Not sure about him as a captain though, not nearly shrewd or smart enough.
10 Oct 2011, 15:42 pm
@ufo(ufo)-102: I rate Schalk. He is a living embodiment of a Bok player, like Frik Du Preez..
But I do not rate him as a Captain
I could be wrong. Accepting the mantle as Bok Captain could bring the best out of his leadership skills.
10 Oct 2011, 15:43 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-108:
It’s completely organic.
Kosher too.
10 Oct 2011, 15:43 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-105:
hehehe…
if schalk gouged my face i’d pull and jimmy hoffa with the police wondering where they put my body…
i listened to the kiwi commentary all world cup so far… (ours is so useless and gutless) and they really respect burger and you can ask virtually any player (as some uk paper did) who is the hardest man in world rugby and they say schalk with bakkies second… except schalk has cleaned up his act…
and saffa FANS reckon he shouldn’t even be in the team… WTF…??
only in sa do we hate the people the rest of the world recognise as stars… go figure…
10 Oct 2011, 15:43 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-109: You know he was illegal right?
10 Oct 2011, 15:48 pm
We should do less PR and more scoring.
The days of orators are over. The empire has fallen.
In the bigger scheme. Who does not believe in a Skeem.
PdiV and Smit and Matfield would have achieved a glorious prize if they won this thing.
They would have become the glory Springbok team of all time. The untouchable / hall of fame team of the alltime WC history.
This is what they set out to achieve. (maybe unwittingly), but anyway… The team selections inn view of this should then be examined. Go for gold or just go for it.
Pieter De Villiers, well done! He said he was going to take some time off. Now if everybody else now also please leave so that the next Bok coach can come and do his thing.
10 Oct 2011, 15:48 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-114: ja, ja pocock was CLEVER, something you can’t accuse any of the bok “captains” of being.
10 Oct 2011, 15:50 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-109: Going to be a classic clash of the opensiders !! With Brussow going off injured , can we credit Pocock so highly ?? IMO i still think Richie will give the young dog a run for his money on the weekend .
10 Oct 2011, 15:50 pm
@shooter(shooter)-107: It will be interesting who will be made the new Bok Captain…
10 Oct 2011, 15:50 pm
Geez its hard to hold back the whingening after yesterdays debacle, but all in all we have to admit that “that’s rugby”. Yes Bryce Lawrence was a shocker but we had enough opportunities to close the game out and blew it for ourselves,….can’t really make excuses for blowing those chances. Anyway au revoir John Smit what an absolute legend! I am surprised by the lack of rugby knowledge from some bloggers on this site…..he may not be Bissie but it seems the good things he did in this world cup just got ignored.
10 Oct 2011, 15:52 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-116: He was not clever he was cheating. I wonder how it feels knowing you are cheating every time and knowing you are getting away with it. I think only someone who lives in Australia will understand how it feels. I cant acknowledge a player like Pocock.
10 Oct 2011, 15:53 pm
Pocock is peerless as an openside.
My loosie trio of the QFs
8. Harinordoquoy
7. Schalk
6. Pocock
10 Oct 2011, 15:54 pm
@Skeppie(Skeppie)-119: Nice one.
10 Oct 2011, 15:54 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-118: Yes just judging by the comments over here. It could be a number of players. guys that fit the bill Bekker, Burger, Jaque Fourie, F.Steyn, Bismarck, Jannie
10 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-123: Add Juan Smith to that list.
10 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-111:
cool HG… but the guy thrives on leadership… only other player who rates up there for me is juan smith… these are the two boks i respect the most… who give it their all every minute of every game…
you most probably would not have seen the ad on sa tv with him and his dad… where as a kid he rode in a mountain bike race.. his chain broke so he carried the bike the rest of the way and still came third…!! true story… that’s how determined he has always been to do his best no matter what curve-balls come his way…
reports are he is so single minded and determined to give it all every time he pulls the jersey over his head… IMO he is the perfect role model for a bok rugby player…
we must remember he’s playing with fused vertebrae in his neck… how many people come back to rugby… with the same ferocity as schalk after a broken neck?? plus finished games with broken ribs…??? i’ve busted ribs… i could hardly move without crying like a little girl… he finished a rugby match…?
it was also his call to go for touch in the wales game that lead to the try… and he makes those cover tackles and such because he not only reads the game well but then makes the effort to get back… while several of our other boks just trot along…
so i understand he may not be everyones cuppa tea… and everyone can find reasons not to rate any player we have… but who better I ask…? and not just names… but reasons too…?
and as far as commanding respect from the players… find me one saffa player who does not respect him…? even luke watson…
anyway will be interesting to see who our new coach and captain will be… whoever they are… i hope the people who don’t like them… don’t start another hate campaign…
10 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-114: Oh yeah, but he won his team the match by creating many turnovers and didn’t get penalized. That, in an opensiders book is an excellent day at the office. Knowing how to pick a pocket and not get caught.
10 Oct 2011, 15:58 pm
Gotta run
Peace
10 Oct 2011, 15:59 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-120: how come he got Man of the Match then
? are you saying the kiwi commentators who voted for him were condoning “cheating”?
10 Oct 2011, 16:00 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-121:
i agree with you 100% there… harry-the-nordic-guy is a great number eight… couldn’t believe they moved him to flank early in the tourney…
10 Oct 2011, 16:01 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-126: If another Ref had blown that game Pocock would of been off the field early in the 2nd half for 2 yellow cards. Must I tell you what makes an excellent opensider getting turnovers legally without the refs assistant. Pocock is half the opensider people make him out to be.
10 Oct 2011, 16:01 pm
@stew(stew)-117: Be Honest Stew. Richie has changed his role so as not to get the reffs attention. You hardly hear them say, leave it seven! He is still effective to his team. But he is doing other things.
10 Oct 2011, 16:02 pm
@Sasuke: I hear you re: Pocock, personally I think he looks like a toolbag (might be a bit harsh seeing as I have never met the guy) but he did a great job for his team, when your coach tells you to opsh the envelope untill the ref shuts you down, that’s your brief. He is a brilliant player.
10 Oct 2011, 16:03 pm
@ufo(ufo)-113:
The rest of the world could not understand why we were playing Smit ahead of Bissy ??)
They were right there as well !! lol
10 Oct 2011, 16:03 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-130: McCaw got awarded IRB player of the year, when he was warned about 4 times about being carded in a trinations match. Boks need to stop being so naive.
10 Oct 2011, 16:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-128: Yes. They could of given it to Horwill or O’Connor but that cheating snake Pocock ha a!
10 Oct 2011, 16:03 pm
27 tackles….that is unbeleivable regardless of the “cheating turnovers” the guy is class…..as much as I hate to say it.
10 Oct 2011, 16:04 pm
My team of the QFs
15 Beale (Lambie was close)
14 Jane
13 Smith
12 JdV (Redeemed himself)/Roberts (Too close to call)
11. Clerc
10. Priestland
9. Warthog (Phillips was close)
8. Harinordoquoy
7. Schalk
6. Pocock
5. Matfield
4. Horwill/Thorne (Too close to call)
3. Mas/Franks (Too close to call)
2. Moore
1. Gurthro
10 Oct 2011, 16:04 pm
Ah, the old never fail game of “if”s, aided and helped along by the bigger insurance policy, national past-time of the newest next team and captain to be forwarded for the next disastrous sporting commitment and effort even while the lastest campaign is still unresolved.
Please note the opposition does not choose your squad of 22, they just decimate them by whatever means available.
Note too, that ” if ” ALL your aunts had balls they would then be your ‘uncles’ or just shemales.
Four for four, so say no more.
10 Oct 2011, 16:05 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-134: We are not naive we are honest. Something that is lost in international sport.
10 Oct 2011, 16:05 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-133: Having read Victor Matfields post match interview it’s clear to me that the players made Pdv’s tenure pure hell. They refused to play the way he wanted to, insisting on them making the decisions on the pitch. If this is true, then John pretty much sellected himself for the Boks and left Bismark to rot on that bench and Victor, Habs and Fdp condoned it.
10 Oct 2011, 16:06 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-130: we don’t know that for sure, bryce is touted as the best in the business, he gets super rugby finals and top notch rwc quarterfinals. paddy o’brien rates him highly!
10 Oct 2011, 16:07 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-123: That list doesnt inspire.
Smith will have to compete with Burger for blindside flank. A true openside is non-negotiable.
Not sure whether Smith can last the distance too.
10 Oct 2011, 16:10 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-133:
hehehe… touché…
been waiting for that…
however, no one says bissy shouldn’t be a bok…
but i don’t believe we lost because of that controversy…
although seems some on keo believe it’s all schalk’s fault… go figure…
maybe we should exile him to mongolian rugby union… he’s not proud enough of the jersey… never puts in as much effort as the other players… walks from breakdown to breakdown… shirks the hard stuff… is an overalls sissy of a player and doesn’t deserve to be a bok…
10 Oct 2011, 16:10 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-133: touche
10 Oct 2011, 16:10 pm
@Helen’s Shame(Helen’s Shame)-137:
NO one believes your emotional garbage. You have NO credibility to make any choices let alone worthy ones seemingly based on thhe four winners representing the beautiful rugby union game.
Four for four and all for the cause of the aesthetic game, so say no more.
10 Oct 2011, 16:11 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-140:
It would appear that way Ross, anyway it is an era now gone, just hope we have learnt from the last 4 years and don’t repeat the same mistakes !!!
10 Oct 2011, 16:13 pm
@ufo(ufo)-143:
LOL, Schalk must surely be a strong candidate for the job !!
10 Oct 2011, 16:13 pm
@ufo(ufo)-143: schalk is no captain’s arse man, yes he is tough, yes he is unrelenting but he doesn’t come across as nuanced manager of man. from what i’ve seen of him at the stormers i am not convinced.
10 Oct 2011, 16:14 pm
@ufo(ufo)-125: Foo Fighting Ufo
, do not think that because I dont think Schalk will be a great Captain, that I don’t think that he is a great player. Indeed I reckon he is now back up to his level of IRB player of the year, if not surpassing it.
I dont doubt his courage… I dont doubt his capacity for pain – he feels none… I don’t doubt his workrate… I dont doubt his rugby mind…
I just doubt his leadership ability. I may be wrong about this. Due to lack of other candidates, especially those who are guaranteed a run on place, he might just be the best candidate.
10 Oct 2011, 16:14 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-128:
there is a significant % of public vote for MOTM… have an app on my phone that allows you to vote for MOTM each game… it must be on the world cup website too… i bet more aussie’s are voting than saffas…
of the saffa players schalk was highest on 18%… with several other guys getting 15, 12, 8 %…
pocock got something like 60% of the aus vote…. (last time i looked during the game but didn’t look at the final percentages)
10 Oct 2011, 16:16 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-137: i’m glad to see you’re not calling jdv “donkey” any more.
10 Oct 2011, 16:17 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-114:
typical zimbos
always being illegal.
10 Oct 2011, 16:18 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-121:
And who, but the ExtraTerrestrial elevated and annoited him King David here in this RWC?
Who put the Youtube site showing how he monstered and physically devoured and belittled your Skunk who went for his face and eyes, but ended tapping, in submission, the King’s arm on his(Skunk’s) throat?
10 Oct 2011, 16:20 pm
@ET.(ET.)-153:
should read anointed
10 Oct 2011, 16:20 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-148:
yet it was him who called for the kick for touch in the wales game… it was him who got the guys together during the samoan game… it was him went over to chat to brussow when he was injured…
so which captain you gonna hand your @$$ to…? names and qualities…?
take the red-n-black shades off… luke’s not gonna be the cappie…!!
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-149:
hehehe…
fair enough HG… ditto my comments to transie…
10 Oct 2011, 16:21 pm
@ET.(ET.)-145: You are an absolute shameless piece of ****. If you never address me again on Keo I shall be very happy.
It is due to people like you that I hope and pray that the AB’s never win this tournament no matter how deserving they might be.
Cape Crusaders…? The best thing for you chaps is a firing squad at dawn, with no cigarette.
10 Oct 2011, 16:21 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-152: are you suggesting there’s something “illegal” about HG?
10 Oct 2011, 16:24 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-151: Yeah, he redeemed himself with his performance yesterday… I just wish he could have given a few more performances like that over the past year.
It is now time for JdJ to shine at 12 for Stormers. Please God give him the opportunity.
10 Oct 2011, 16:26 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-118: Whoever it is. Next time the captain for life clue should be ditched.
pick the captain that can do the job on the day. captain plusminus a season… and then who next, or re-vote. a captain should only be a captain. not a celebrity.
10 Oct 2011, 16:27 pm
@ET.(ET.)-153: Just **** off and expire. Take your “I told you so’s” and go and give yourself a cheap thrill in a quiet room elsewhere.
10 Oct 2011, 16:27 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-147:
so jr… who would be on your possible captains list…? with a little motivation for each…?
10 Oct 2011, 16:29 pm
@shooter(shooter)-159: A Captain needs to be a constant… and should be 100% the best player in his position. Simple.
10 Oct 2011, 16:30 pm
@shooter(shooter)-159:
Well said !!
10 Oct 2011, 16:32 pm
@ufo(ufo)-150: Who are the other guys?
Schalk, Matfield were up there for me.
Followed by Gurthro, Jean, Lambie, Flo.
10 Oct 2011, 16:37 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-164:
can’t really remember now HG… but morne steyn’s name was there… i remember it because we all thought WTF…? (not saying he player badly but…)
10 Oct 2011, 16:40 pm
I think it’s time for a young fresh captain, ALA Wales Sam Warburton or a younger Smittie etc. If ever there was a time to bring a new captain now is it. Question is who?
10 Oct 2011, 16:41 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-164:
just checked up….
the final top three… this is ONLY fans vote….
schalk… 22%
pocock… 14%
moune steyn … 14%
i shhhhh…ittt you not…
10 Oct 2011, 16:41 pm
@ufo(ufo)-161:
Truthfully I have not given much thought to it, he must be a certain starter and must be in form.
Schalk, Juan, Bekker, imo the only 3 real contenders at this stage. They will all be starters and have captained before. But they must be selected only if they are in form and only for a specific period, e.g. for the England tour, if he does a good job and is playing well then he can be reselected for the 4 nation etc etc
Form, merit and success must be the criteria for the captain!!
10 Oct 2011, 16:42 pm
morne… damn predictive text… :angry:
10 Oct 2011, 16:43 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-156:
Coming from you, the one with no credibility let alone worthy principles, that is a badge of honour I will proudly wear.
Ah, the reactions of the shamed and stupid and arrogantly uncouth. Just what I was seeking, and drove you into committing. You are caught and now stuck in my web for the imbeciles of note. Enjoy your time there as you have been nakedly exposed as the non-S. African ‘Boertjie verkrampte’ and ethnic racist(“Are you ethnic black?”) you have been since that first Sunday you were encountered.
Note you provide no substantiations for wild claims, whereas I do(“ethnic black”) when I tag you.
Have you conveniently forgotten that I have predicted all four teams in the semi-finals and since my policy is any nation but the neo- … , any one of them winning it all means untold glory for me but especially the ALL ‘Blacks’, pinkish white pig?
Four for four, so say no more.
The aesthetic game of rugby union, just what I asked for, wins hands down here and you are still naked and ugly with the wrinkles and the shrinked.
Dead meat trying to rise like a Lazarus. Laughable!
10 Oct 2011, 16:45 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-168:
hear what you saying and what shooter said…
but think a tour at a time may be just a bit too short a period… a loss or two and we could be changing captains every tour which would also not be good for bok rugby…
IMO….
maybe a season at a time…
10 Oct 2011, 16:47 pm
@ufo(ufo)-165: Steyn did his job, he played well like all of the Boks, but some played like warriors.
10 Oct 2011, 16:47 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-162: constant? you mean an absolute?
only play rugby. make F Hougaard captain.
10 Oct 2011, 16:49 pm
@ET.(ET.)-170: Like water off a ducks back, numbnut…
Talking about uncouth…its more than you deserve, quite frankly.
10 Oct 2011, 16:50 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-172:
sure… i stated many times we HAD to use steyn for this world cup… so not banging on the guy… just that a few others stood out… as stated by you…
10 Oct 2011, 16:51 pm
anyway guys… i’m outta here…
cheers all…
10 Oct 2011, 16:53 pm
@shooter(shooter)-173: Constant in that he sets the tone… But yeah I agree with you in a way about “only play rugby”, the focus should be more on setting the tone on the field rather than off.
Maybe the Boks go young with someone like Hougaard…or Lambie. Just taking thoughts for a walk.
10 Oct 2011, 16:56 pm
@ufo(ufo)-175: One thing is certain, the MOTM was Pocock whether we like it or not. No player had more of an influence on the game, rightly or wrongly. The peerless twat!
10 Oct 2011, 16:56 pm
Burger for captain. If you disagree, please state who should be, otherwise shut it. Name a more passionate, talented and authoritative role model. Exactly. You are dumb struck, ne.
10 Oct 2011, 16:58 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-160:
Devoured, like the Skunk by King David.
Please pass on the email to Helen(HG in Drag), better still read it in front of a mirror as her image will be observed by the object you serve to be.
Four for four and all exponents of the aesthetic game, so say no more.
Australia – Ella, Horan, Campese and more.
France – Rives, Dauga, Sella and more.
Wales – Cliff Morgan, B.John, JPR Williams and more.
New Zealand – M Jones, B Williams, D.Kirk and more.
Your vulgarity which exhibits your limitations thrills me to bits.
Just two more weeks. Just two more and we will know who the real RWC champs are but the order and balance in rugby union has already been restored, thus all is well again, especially in the ” Fairest Cape in all the World” where they hero-worshipped and still do all of Australia France, New Zealand and Walles for their rugby union, exquisitely played.
10 Oct 2011, 16:59 pm
Schalla was just as ineffective as any of the other runners. Tried to run over the Wallabies with nothing to show for it. Your welcome to disagree but show me the money. Robbie Deans attacked the Boks in their weak spot. Between their ears.
10 Oct 2011, 16:59 pm
Smit and Fourie du Preez were sh_it in the world cup and really disappointed. 3 for both of them.
Our supposed secret weapon Morne Steyn was so ordinary in the world cup. His place kicking (other than the final) was really good, but his defence was shocking and he could not get the backline moving in any threatening manner. Butch James quit his old team Bath because he was assured of a starting place in the world cup and then he only played once as a centre replacement. What a waste! 4 for Steyn.
Habana and Spies 4 as well.
Schalk deserves 10, and Birmarck 9 for their efforts.
I am glad that we will never have Smit and Fourie du Preez playing for the Boks again due to retirement, but I also hope that we never again see someone that really does not deserve their place like Habana, Spies, Muller, Chilliboy, Kirchner, Petersen and Morne Steyn.
10 Oct 2011, 17:00 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-178:
King David, Fool. Just say it as I wrote it all of last week and Sunday on the game thread.
10 Oct 2011, 17:01 pm
@Jinx2(Jinx2)-179: I second that. Burger for Bok captain.
10 Oct 2011, 17:01 pm
@ufo(ufo)-167: Interesting – was it only Saffa fans?
The vote should be:
1. Pocock
2. Schalk
3. Matfield
4. Horwill
10 Oct 2011, 17:03 pm
@Hell’s Game(Helen’s Shame)-174:
Always knew you are an animal but a duck is just too pretty for you.
Try HYENA.
10 Oct 2011, 17:05 pm
@Hell’s Game(Helen’s Shame)-185:
Now you’re into the Anal Tear?
10 Oct 2011, 17:07 pm
new bok team will be young for the next few years.
the pre-WC newcomers already facing challenges from the current and new currie cup players.
the Deysel, Marcel Coetzee, Taute, Goossen, Sadie etc etc, are all challenging for Bok places in the next 12 months.
a captain will have to have 20 to 30 caps, and he’ll be more experienced than the rest.
the new coach will actually be the most decisive decision, like always, with new coaches.
and winning results should hopefully keep the coach and the captain in their job.
10 Oct 2011, 17:08 pm
@ET.(ET.)-180: Got no idea what you are talking about, in what context… and why. I read the first sentence, only, and then decided to stupidly reply to you again… against my better judgement.
However I wanted to say 2 things:
Maybe address your post to some other Caped Crusader on Keo for appreciation or understanding.
If you’re looking for some sort of credibility w.r.t. having any idea about the Game played in Heaven, it is lost on me.
10 Oct 2011, 17:20 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-22: Great post HG! You should be a write on this site instead of these moegoes who “write” here!
Great imagery and powerful prose. I TOTALLY agree never must the “building for the World Cup” excuse be used. The coaching contracts should run from 2 years before to 2 years after a RWC.
Suggestions for your A N Others?
11. Movovo
10. Goosen/Ebersohn/Jantjies – I like these choices! Elton is really coming on.
9. Hougaard!
8. Vermeulen
My only question – why only 5 for Brussow?
10 Oct 2011, 17:28 pm
@Hell’s Game(Helen’s Shame)-189:
But you fit the bill of the ridiculous and imbecile so perfectly it would be difficult to deny me my posts to you.
Besides you wrote such a glowing epitaph with such hero-worshipping words of “ET is no fool” and “I am in the ET Fan club” (totally not invited by me) to David and more. How could I not reward such emotional warmth with my posts?
Accept your schooling. Just accept it.
Four for four, so say no more.
10 Oct 2011, 17:39 pm
@BringItHomeBoks(bokfan1)-190: Cheers man – anyone can do a half decent post or article when they don’t have an agenda. My post was selfishly more as a catharsis than anything else, but thanks for the compliment anyway.
Vermeulen is a good choice for 8 – I forgot about him. He and Alberts need to fight that one out.
Hougie is the obvious choice at 9 but I also like him as 11. He needs to choose now. I hope it is as an 11.
Mvovo is a very good runner but has some severe technical deficiencies: passing for one, and he hasn’t got a decent chip or boot at all. But these are things that he can build on.
One thing is for sure, when you look at all the options – the Boks have the talent and ability to be an 80% win record team. That has to be the goal.
Brussouw got five because he was dominated and made no impact on the game. Not for lack of trying, sure, but compared to Pocock he was insignificant when on field. But maybe 5 is a bit harsh.
My 5 also does not mean I dont rate him, he is needed for our future Bok side. And he will have better games. Its just that in the overall context of the game yesterday he was outmatched.
10 Oct 2011, 17:44 pm
@Hell’s Game(Helen’s Shame)-22
” The Boks were proud losers in a game …. ”
But you are down the wrong road again because you have driven yourself stupidly into an ethnic, sectarian, stereotyping corner, especially, but not only, with the Kiwis.
The Aussies played their final on Sunday past. They cannot peak again as they have done that, at least, twice already this unfinished season.
Helen(HG in Drag) said much the same thing(the quote) on the other thread before you came to hide here.
She also claimed to influence the economy concerns in Europe but is supposedly in JHB. But you are in Europe and have made such claims too to David. Strange but true.
10 Oct 2011, 17:59 pm
@ET.(ET.)-191: @ET.(ET.)-193: Jeez, you’re trying hard… Its lost on me though. I read the first sentence of your posts and dont bother to read the rest.
All I have to say, which says it all…
You are an AB supporter yet you are Saffa born… A ****** rugbywhore who does not have a clue what supporting a national team is all about.
An random analanachronism of not only rugby stupidity but life stupidity too. Clueless. End of.
10 Oct 2011, 18:23 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-101: Pocock is the new McCaw, he can come in from the side, do whatever he wants. Any player that can operate outside the rules can outplay their opponent! Pocock was nothing special in reality, simply illegal.
10 Oct 2011, 18:43 pm
Guthro Steenkamp is the World’s top loosehead.
Just carried on where he left off in 2010
10 Oct 2011, 19:11 pm
@Hell’s Game(Helen’s SHame)-
{{ ” The best thing for you chaps is a firing squad at dawn, with no cigarette ” }}
Quite amazing what a loss at a game of rugby can do. I never have had need for a smoke ever and you stupidly forget who owns the military hardware in the new(but not whole) South Africa- again the fool.
Merely again a sick expression of your sicker ‘nationalism’ and pathologic patriotism.
Let me call on the genuine THINKERS to help you get off your path to destruction:
” Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.”
I find this medical science approach quite fitting and acceptable and for the one to follow.
Further:
” He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality and all this loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, .. ”
Futhermore, since only FOOLS invest in social evils such as stereotyping, ethnic slurs, sectarianism, racism in all its forms and more, just read and think clearly (if you can) the words that follow:
” Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex… It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction ”
You are intelligent but also the fool and make things more complex and unbearable and do not ever reflect a touch of genius.
Only a fool cannot understand ” any nation but the neo-racist, until full non-racism reigns ” and worse still indulges in distortion of that in such a childish, immature fashion.
I on the other hand move in the opposite direction ( the “alternate view” – your words) which is the direction of TRUTH. And that is the road I will always follow. It is noble. Even the great thinkers have agreed and will agree.
10 Oct 2011, 19:33 pm
Here’s my take:
The Springbok coaching team was caught out. You cannot win a RWC without only your very best players. There are a couple of players who simply are not good enough to play at the very highest level.
What went wrong?
1. The fact that we lost Frans Steyn is probably the biggest loss. With Steyn at 15 the opposition is forced to change tactics. You cannot risk kicking to Steyn anywhere from his own 10 meter line.
2. Morne Steyn. Pedantic at best. A very average Bok, the worst defender since Naas.
3. Fourie du Preez. A genius and still young enough, but probably not recovered from injury.
4. Habana. Still young enough, but not even remotely in Hougaard’s class. Comparing Habana to Hougaard is more or less like comparing Deon Oosthuizen to Carel du Plessis. Hougaard IS the new Carel. The best 11 on the planet.
5. Pierre Spies. He simply is not strong enough to be a Bok forward, and he doesn’t have the hands or the rugby brain for a Bok 8.
6. John Smit. A bridge too far. Bismarck is the number 1 hooker in the world, but he can’t make the Bok starting 15? Rediculous.
The way forward:
1. Find a decent flyhalf. My money is on Goosen. He has it all. He is in Frans Steyn’s class. He is young and can play for the next 10 years. Pick him NOW.
2. Get rid of Spies as quickly as possible.
3. Decide on a understudy for Jan de Villiers. Is it Sadie or is it De Jongh? Both can do the job.
4. Pick Janno Vermaak or Dewald Duvenhage at 9.
5. Start building a new lock combo. Hopefully Flip can make it.
6. Appoint a decent coach. I don’t think Allister can do the job. WP and the Stormers have been found out tactically by teams with less talent. It comes down to coaching. They should seriously consider Brendan Venter or Nic Mallet.
An interem team should look something like this:
15. F Steyn
14. JP Petersen
13. J Fourie
12. J de Villiers (substituted by Sadie or De Jongh after 50 minutes for 1 year)
11. Hougaard
10. Goosen
9. Duvenhage/Vermaak
8. Burger (potential c)
7. Smith (potential c)
6. Brussow
5. Johan Muller (?) Problem area
4. Flip van der Merwe (?) Problem area
3. Jannie du Plessis
2. Bismarck du Plessis
1. Beast
10 Oct 2011, 19:35 pm
@ET.(ET.)-197: Do me a favour…
Go buy a revolver and just one hollow-tipped bullet at your local Wal-mart…
Load bullet into revolver…
1. Spin revolver…
2. With right hand steady, point barrel of revolver at right temple…
3. Squeeze trigger…
And repeat from 1. to 3…..until you get what you deserve.
(and every Caped Crusading AB supporter from “Greater Cape Town” or anywhere else in SA can do the same, preferably in perfect synchronicity)
10 Oct 2011, 19:53 pm
some schmucks on here still think they are the f’ng be all and end all knowing fundi’s on rugby whereas it was PRECISELY because they are NOT and punting what was an accident waiting to happen that the accident ACTUALLY DID.!!!
Smit should NEVER have led this team in this WC campaign.. biggest f’ng mistake of ALL mistakes…
All this bullshit propaganda talk that he gonna captain off the bench and put the team first ahead of his aggrandized ambitions and ALL the f’ng rest did NOT materialize..
When push came to shove, Smit, Spies and FdP started all the big games.. apart from Samoa … and END result .. we are OUT ..O..U..T..OUT !!!
Dumb fck klutzes ignoramus dunces that you ARE.. You couldn’t SEE it happen before your f’ng mesmerized fckd up eyes and you STILL cannot understand why Boks are OUT… O..U…T…OUT !!!
This HG schmuck and some his clever d’ck compatriots pretending they KNOW about rugby.. while ALL their pre game suggestions PROVED they are WRONG
This HG schmuck could NOT ever have a decent word to say about JdV and F. Louw.. now he praises them to the rooftops… meantime some here like myself would ALWAYS have played them in my 22
FdP. Smit and Spies more ore less in that order are the reasons Boks are no more and OUT this WC campaign.. But some you dunbfck klutzing schmucks STILL cannot fathom where the fck we got it so Dumbfck WRONG !!!
The team should have started Sundays game like this…
Lambie
JPP
Fourie
JdV
Habana
Steyn
Hougaard
Alberts
Burger
Brussow
Matfield (c)
Roussow
JdP
BdP
Steenkamp
Beast, Smit, (CJ), Spies, Louw, FdP, Aplon, (De Jongh)
IF we were down at half time following players should have taken the field
Louw & Aplon for Brussow and Habana
Smit, FdP, Spies I leave for LAST as just in case insurance policies.. You try take on youth with youth and vigor with vigor
Spies would be an advantage last 1/4 fresh legs addition… Smit and FdP ONLY required if the starters of Bismark, and Hougaard cannot cut it
As for Burger’s contribution.. he puts in massive monumental effort along similar lines to Bismark and don’t stop gunning for 80 minutes.. same as Steenkamp did on Sunday.. in fact same as whole team did on Sunday..
Except Burger is NOT the go to man.. this idea that Burger MUST be a part of EVERY line movement and EVERY assault on defence is WRONG.. and stuffs our game to High F’ng Heaven..
Yet you schmucks STILL cannot see it
WTF was Burger THINKING taking a defensive ball under his posts to ground and NOT protecting it.. a first 1/4 try to Wallabies was the direct result….
And some schmucks here still wanna believe this man can do no wrong… no wrong… no wrong… no wrong… same way as they were so FUNDAMENTALLY believing that John Smit and FdP could do No Wrong… no wrong… no wrong … no wrong… and LOOK where the fck it ACTUALLY GOT THEM
OUT the World Cup in the Quarters… playing this Dumb Fck archaic slow man to the breakdown dance… Thats what Fckd Boks UP… Smit, Spies and FdP LOST BOKS the RWC !!!! get it THROUGH your THICK dumb fck Koppe..FOR ONCE!!!
10 Oct 2011, 19:57 pm
@ET.(ET.)-170: The problem is, your predictions came from hate of SA and not knowledge of the game. So don’t praise yourself to much.And after the world cup your life will be empty again and you will miss these blokes on this site.(I am sure they are the closest to “friends” you have)
But do enjoy your time in the sun.
10 Oct 2011, 19:59 pm
duh Villiers has retracted his comment about standing down. He seems to think he was misquoted. That won’t be a first.
10 Oct 2011, 20:04 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-196: Agree
10 Oct 2011, 20:04 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-202: Oh PLEASE tell me you are not serious.
10 Oct 2011, 20:07 pm
@optiplay(optiplay)-204:
Siriaas. The nightmare we thought had ended has come back…like Jason in those Halloween movies…..he just won’t die!!!
10 Oct 2011, 20:12 pm
@Suidkapenaar(Suidkapenaar)-198: What about Bakkies? He was absolutely missed in this WC. Not finished yet. Where is Bekker,Lambie,Steenkamp.Nice post from you though.
10 Oct 2011, 20:14 pm
@Suidkapenaar(Suidkapenaar)-198:
Outstanding assessment. Top drawer! I also think Mallett, Brendan V, Smal. Rassie and Coetzee needs a couple of year to WIN something first.
10 Oct 2011, 20:20 pm
Hahaha, PdIV is worst than my heartburn
He is with us until Nov, not resigned yet
10 Oct 2011, 20:23 pm
Keo
So onto kicking a new coach.You must be nervous in excitement at the prospect of copying the last 10 years of article and just find and replace the name of old coaches with the new ones name. Job done
10 Oct 2011, 20:35 pm
@optiplay(optiplay)-206: I forgot about Bekker. One problem area solved!
10 Oct 2011, 21:15 pm
@Suidkapenaar(Suidkapenaar)-210: Just heard PdV is considering a coaching job in SanFransico. He is taking Pierre Spies a his captain for the next 4 years.
10 Oct 2011, 21:52 pm
@optiplay(optiplay)-211: Must be San Francisco, Uganda.
10 Oct 2011, 21:54 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-202: He’s realised that clipping train tickets doesn’t pay a R1m annual salary.
10 Oct 2011, 22:20 pm
@daydreamer(daydreamer)-182: Smit was rock solid, so too was Schalk. You are just another jumped up little squirt whose agenda is far from rugby. You must be one of those Keo groupies, only you are slower on the up take than they are! The attacks on Schalk were over years ago you fraggle.
10 Oct 2011, 22:21 pm
@Suidkapenaar(Suidkapenaar)-210: Bekker is utterly useless. And even if he were any good, he is ALWAYS injured trying to impose himself on tiny backline players. Hasn’t had one good test for the Boks. Very sad if we are stuck with him for the next four years.
10 Oct 2011, 23:40 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-214: You’re such a bl00dy id1ot! I said Burger was great and deserved 10/10.
As for Smit, he was not close to being rock solid and having Bismarck on instead of him for 70-80minutes would have swung the match in our favour. There is no place in any national team for a pasenger like Smit, finished and klaar.
You also mention in your posts that Morne Steyn was the best flyhalf at the tournament. Kicking and being a flyhalf are two different things. Steyn was like a revolving door when opponents ran at him, shocking in defence.
You must be one of those people that are confused all the time and make comments to other people that make no sense all the time…
11 Oct 2011, 01:53 am
The Boks did play well and deserved to go to teh semis.
HOWEVER: Some criticisms.
1) The backline attacking play is nowhere. That they could not penetrate for a try with so much forward dominance says it all. D!CK MUIR MUST GO!!
2) Schalk Burger has a nasty habit of turning his back on defenders when carrying ball up – this makes him ripe for being dropped onto his back, and the ball grabbed while being up in the air. Its just poor technique that should have been sorted out a long time ago. He tries to be a hero and go it alone, which more often than not results in a turnover. When he gets it, he must look for support (actually he should not get it if there is no support). If there is none, he must pass, or try sand stay on his feet as long as possible.
3) For all JdV’s reputation as a playmaker, this is not from his ability to pass into space, or make space for players on his outside – more to be selfish and run into space using his size. He NEVER looks around for other players in space – much to the detriment of the Boks. He is just plain selfish.
4) The Bok forwards were just not organised enough in support play to combat openside defenders like Pocock. There should have been a plan to run at Pocock FIRST, with support, and get him involved in a rick, so that he could not pick on unsupported tackles.
11 Oct 2011, 04:17 am
It’s larf a minute reading some of these comments blaming this player or that player, explaining how to negate Pocock. Wake up! The players are NOT to blame. How can you combat Pocock when the ref allows his side to not have to release the tackled player and to keep his hands fighting for the ball way after his hands should be out? You can’t. Smit tried but was ignored. Brycie should have been reffing sheep in S Island after the Sharks vs Crusaders game and SA reffing authorities and rugby administrators should have put him there. But they are represented by spineless, self-important boneheads like Freek Burger (read his childish comments elsewhere) and Brycie is obviously Paddy’s little gnome chum. Paddy and Brycie should have been long gone. We need an SA head of refs at the IRB.
Do you muppeteers think Burger decided himself to run the ball? It was a pre-planned move but one that has no place 10m from your goal line and anyway that should have had 2 Boks on his shoulder. They weren’t there; Brycie allowed hands everywhere and the game was lost; right there. Tactical and coaching naivete and childishness. This has no place in a game like this where you have excellent kickers at scrumhalf and flyhalf and a good lineout.
But look back. This game could have been won by Frans Steyn kicking. He was injured because we persisted with playing him against Samoa instead of say, Butch. This in a game we could have actually controlled with tactical kicking rather than up and unders then defend, and, with the 100% vision of hindsight, lost. Piss poor coaching and management.
Bottom line remains the same. We lost. But we deserved to lose. But NOT because of our players. We’re an African team; good players, bad management.
11 Oct 2011, 11:01 am
Poor Cardinelli’s provicial bias and hatred of Morne Steyn (perhaps becuase of hisown love affair with Butch) is clear for all who care to actually read his opinions !
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.