Rich reward for Joubert
10 Oct 2011
South Africa’s Craig Joubert will referee one of the World Cup semi-finals.
Joubert will take charge of New Zealand’s match against Australia with Alain Rolland given the Saturday semi-final between France and Wales.
South Africa’s Jonathan Kaplan and Englishmen Wayne Barnes will be the touch judges in Saturday’s match and one of Kaplan or Barnes is expected to referee the final.
Rolland refereed the 2007 final, won by South Africa.
Kaplan is the world’s most experienced international referee but Joubert has been the most impressive at this World Cup.
54 Comments
10 Oct 2011, 08:38 am
my least favorite sa ref…joubert
10 Oct 2011, 08:39 am
Wow, happy for Kaplan, but Craig Joubert IMO has been the best referee at this World Cup.
Either way, it’s nice to not see Bryce Lawrence anywhere.
10 Oct 2011, 08:43 am
Joubert, Kaplan and Barnes the best in the world.
Lawrence is just incompetent, fact.
10 Oct 2011, 08:43 am
Bryce to get the final… AB’s or not.
10 Oct 2011, 08:47 am
After the terrible interpretation by the Kiwi ref this weekend … we now HAVE to admit that referees have COMPLETE control on the result on a game. Besides … the World Cup is a total farce !!! I reckon Craig will have the Aussies take this one, and Alain will have the French winning (he speaks French fluently) … We should have explored the White Card system, TMO review in general play etc. avenue a bit more – that way we could have had Pocock reviewed for hands in ruck, entering from the side, slowing down the ball etc. … perhaps the forward pass too. With another (more capable ref) we would have beaten these Aussies by 20 + points (Penalty after penalty) … !!!
10 Oct 2011, 08:47 am
Joubert has been good so far. Consistent and has not influenced the game.
10 Oct 2011, 08:49 am
@RL(RL)-3:
Really hope Keohane is done sticking up for Lawrence as well.
Yes, Australia did best at playing to his interpretations.
But it was Lawrence job to implement the breakdown laws correctly, and in that regard he had a SHOCKING game, which affected the result. It negated South Africa’s huge dominance in territory.
If Keohane, Vrede, JC deny that, they prove some of those on here right… that they don’t have a clue.
10 Oct 2011, 08:55 am
Barnes, thy guy who in the wales SA game allowed a try off the most blatant forward pass? absolutely shocking decision !!! Craig should ref both semis and the final
10 Oct 2011, 09:26 am
Craig has been the best ref so far, and as far as Barnes is concerned I can see a number of phone calls between the NZRFU and O’Byrne if the ABs get to the final
10 Oct 2011, 09:28 am
@PeaceFrog(PeaceFrog)-5:
Alain doesn’t just speak french, he’s half french.
10 Oct 2011, 09:53 am
problem is our referees are too honest and too fair.
10 Oct 2011, 10:25 am
I hope we all realise that if Joubert hands the game to the Aussies, the AB’s will cry conspiracy.
Much like some of our supporters are crying conspiracy over Lawrence’s officiating on Sunday.
10 Oct 2011, 11:01 am
Barnes for potential NZ vs France final. That would an irony of note.
10 Oct 2011, 11:04 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-7: Nothing in that for Keo, otherwise his “I told you so” theory does not have as much merit …
Anyway, let’s not start sounding like the ABs and Aussies. We were hard done by. I’d hope SARU provides feedback to the IRB …
10 Oct 2011, 11:07 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-7: Correct me if I am wrong but had Brussow stayed on the field full 80 mins Bryce’s interpretation would have been ok for Heinrich, wouldn’t it, as he does EXACTLY the same as Pocock?
10 Oct 2011, 11:15 am
@Nils(Nils)-15: True, however given 75% possession that would mean that Pocock would slow the ball down for 60 minutes out of 80.
Answer me this, how do you create overlaps and use defensive mismatches if the ball is being slowed down? Does that not give a defending team more time to reorganise?
I’m not saying Pocock and the Aussies did not do the same as the boks, however if the breakdown is not refereed properly to speed up play then it is a disadvantage for the team which attacks.
On Sunday the Boks had most of the ball and possession, and with the breakdown being refereed badly this affected their chances of using the possession.
I thought this was the whole point behind the new rules pushed by Australia and NZ. Or am I missing something here?
10 Oct 2011, 11:19 am
Anyway, the game is in the past and I hope that Joubert referees the game better on Sunday, because I think the AB loosies are better than the Wallabies and if not slowed down will spank the Aussies if they played like Saturday.
From out side I’m actually quite happy because the last 4 years was a tiring experience as a bok fan. New faces, new coach (hopefully someone good), happy days
10 Oct 2011, 11:31 am
@danuk(danuk)-16: To be honest, I am not that good rugby specialist to answer about all those nuances, I prefer read what more clever folks say, so I presume you may have valid points I am not argue with. 8)
Which leads me back to the 4 year old events and general public reaction here.
71%-29% in possession, 63%-37% territory (official stats), 2-10 in penalty counts, opposition hanging on for dear life has carte blanche at the breakdown. The same result.
The only difference – the ref was lauded as almost the fairest ever (until he started reffing your own ones) and we were told to shutthefookup, take it like the man and ridiculed in every way possible (just read those posts back then).
10 Oct 2011, 11:34 am
I’m happy with Joubert:)
Don’t think Bryce lost the game was actually the negative play of the Bok’s..only 2 line breaks the whole game?
10 Oct 2011, 11:35 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-7:
Burger did the flip-flop at the breakdown all day, unless you only noticed the players in Gold. And, like Pocock, he “played the ref” and continued to get away with it all day. Dont Bok fans have a special word for it ?
ah, thats right
‘cheating’.
except, its only reserved for the opposition, right ?
10 Oct 2011, 11:36 am
Joubert for the Semi vs Wallas.
Oh dear God, NO !!!
10 Oct 2011, 11:40 am
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-21: No worries, it’s another POB conspiracy. We just cannot see all his masterplan in whole to get ABs into the final, but definitely will.
Just wonder, if Joubert will also called a “cheat”, you never know.
10 Oct 2011, 11:43 am
@Nils(Nils)-15: The point is, referees brought in ‘daylight rule’ and others to benefit the attacking team. I think we must accept that this rule does not really exist. At least not to Bryce.
The same ref blowed 2x as many penalties in the group encounter between Aus and Ireland.
Our problem wasn’t so much with ball security (look at 5+ phases stats), it was more with the spedd of the ball, very difficult to attack from. Louw played well, I thought (when we didn’t have the ball), but the defenders definately had the upper hand.
That said Aussies took their chances, we didn’t. It was just one of those days where we were extremely unlucky. Not sure you can blame any one individual.
10 Oct 2011, 11:45 am
@Nils(Nils)-18: Thats the point there has been a WHOLE suite of law changes over the last 4 years to give the attacker more of an advantage. Clearly these were not applied and maybe will continue to not be applied.
10 Oct 2011, 11:49 am
@Nils(Nils)-22: Its not cheating. Pocock played the ref exceptionally, the point is what is the point of the rules when a ref just blows to a completely different set of rules?
I guess it is ironic, cause we thrived under the old rules where we lived off scraps and defended. I guess it was silly of us to adapt to a new rule set, that isn’t a part of the RWC.
10 Oct 2011, 12:12 pm
Well it looks like Bryce will be enjoying a well-earned break from the rest of the World Cup.
10 Oct 2011, 12:19 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-21 Joubert is a good choice. Southern Hemisphere styled officiating at the break down. He’ll leave it to the players on the field to play better rugby. He won’t allow rubbish like Bryce did.
10 Oct 2011, 12:30 pm
@Nils(Nils)-18: Yes, possibly the same as 2007 for the ABs, however I thought the rule changes where brought in for exactly that reason.
I cannot say that this is the only game where that has happened though. It seems the referees where told specifically not to be too harsh at the breakdown this RWC. The concept of daylight does not exist.
Anyway, as I said, it’s water under the bridge, and I’m content with the fact that we can now have a fresh start. Also, to be honest, it’s hard for me to say that we are hard done by given the quality of rugby we produced the last 2 years.
I also understand that Bryce might not be the best test referee, however he is the best seemingly in NZ. I also think the Aussie media probably made him a little more lenient to them post the Ireland game.
10 Oct 2011, 12:37 pm
@Black Panther(Black Panther)-20: Actually I thought that only started happening once the boks realised that Bryce was just not blowing anyone up.
What did you expect them to do? Sit back and not do the same thing? See my comment to Nils, the nett effect is the problem, i.e. slow ball.
As for cheating … well if someone does not follow the rules and gets away with it, then what is it called? Or should we just be happy, throw the rule book out and play according to the referee’s interpretation.
I’m not irritated by Pocock doing that, because that is his role. I am however frustrated with how much of a lottery some aspects of the game of rugby is becoming
10 Oct 2011, 13:14 pm
@danuk(danuk)-28: @Ratel Brussow(Morne Steyn is under-rated)-25: All I can say guys, your team was unlucky yesterday. With all that huge territorial and possession advantage.
Maybe next time. There’s always tomorrow.
10 Oct 2011, 13:22 pm
Stupid giving Joubert the Aussie game. If he gives any penalties to the AB’s there will be even more conspiracy theories doing the rounds.
Rolland should ref the aussie game and Joubert the other!
10 Oct 2011, 15:01 pm
I remember earlier this year when the Cheetahs were playing one of the Australian teams, with Lawrence in charge, Heinrich Brussouw and Robert Ebersohn had a field day at the break-down much the same way as Pocock did on Sunday. I remember thinking then that this guy is clueless to the breakdown laws.
It is clear to me that the Australians were more aware of this than the Boks were and sent Vickerman in to do a “Bakkies” on Brussouw. It worked for them and we were the ones left with eggs on our faces.
I do not think that Lawrence was biased. He doesn’t come across in the same way as Dickerson, Walsh, Rolland, Clancy, Honiss and O’Brien do. He is just clueless to the breakdown laws. The Australians, as per their convict DNA, are smarter buggers than us. And we end up looking like a bunch of dumb japies again.
10 Oct 2011, 15:31 pm
Outside of Mark Lawrence, Kaplan and maybe Craig Joubert, who are the next best referees in the game?
10 Oct 2011, 16:11 pm
The very score line is a poor show for Rugby. Rugby is the real looser. The Boks are the victims of the real failure in ref whim. Why do all the teams do ref analysis? Because they manipulate the game with their OWN interpretation. Hog wash, there should be one standard.
10 Oct 2011, 20:15 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-2: Will be in the final.
10 Oct 2011, 20:17 pm
@once more unto the breach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-11: Absolutely spot on.
10 Oct 2011, 20:21 pm
@Nils(Nils)-15: Was Vickerman cited for the hit on Brussow?Reminded me somehow of the Bakkies incident in the BL tour . Or am I wrong?Looked to me a bit illegal.
10 Oct 2011, 20:21 pm
C’mon Keo and co – somewhere out there there’s a communication between Paddy and Bryce – just go out and find it!
10 Oct 2011, 20:26 pm
@YoMama(YoMama)-32:
Bullshit – top flight referees are not oblivious of the laws – dig deeper – all will eventually be revealed. Paddy has tried to screw the ”yarpies” before – why not now again? They fancy their chances against Aus (in WC games), more than the Boks. Sort of playing the percentages.
10 Oct 2011, 20:37 pm
@danuk(danuk)-29:
If NZ had lost a WC game due to **** referring – would Paddy have issued some sort of statement? You bet.
The silence is deafening!
10 Oct 2011, 20:37 pm
@mcclanbwkrau(mcclanbwkrau)-34: A real test has both sides with single-digit scores.
10 Oct 2011, 21:09 pm
@Nils(Nils)-18: Who lauded the ref as the fairest. ??Daddy O’Brien did . Certainly not the Saffas.
10 Oct 2011, 21:15 pm
Jeez wouldnt it be the sweetest thing should Australia beat the ABs next week despite having only 40% possession and 20% territory… and Pocock being MOTM… again, but this time with a Saffa ref.
By God that would be ironic.
10 Oct 2011, 21:19 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-43: Generally speaking I would prefer the AB to win . But just to Paddy’s face would make it worth its while for Aussie win.
10 Oct 2011, 21:25 pm
@optiplay(optiplay)-44: “to see paddy’s face.” it should read.@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-43: Not to labour the piont.But do you think Vickerman’s clearing of Brussow was legal?Didn’t see arms ( or citing ) and side entry.Not that it would change anything now.
10 Oct 2011, 21:56 pm
Barnes will NOT get the final, he has pretty much been one of the worst refs at the World Cup according to referees.
10 Oct 2011, 21:59 pm
Wayne Barnes is a similar type of referee to Bryce Lawrence, he is afraid to actually referee and penalise certain offences
10 Oct 2011, 22:02 pm
@optiplay(optiplay)-45: No I don’t think it was. I also don’t think the hands in ruck while Burger was barely a meter from the tryline was legal too…
And ad infinitum…
You’re right it won’t change anything.
10 Oct 2011, 22:23 pm
@Nils(Nils)-13: haha, I was thinking exactly the same thing.
Good chance to reverse things tho
many of us would love to see the French in the final, to strive for true redemption
However, meeting Wales would see a colorful red and black theme through the crowd in recognition of our cantabrian folk
Firstly tho, we goot get to the final, something we havent been good at since 95
10 Oct 2011, 22:24 pm
@bcoet(bcoet)-47: very true, spot on. Theyre gutless referees.
not sure who I dispise the most
10 Oct 2011, 22:32 pm
With my team, the Boks out, all the best to the All Blacks they deserve the Cup.
11 Oct 2011, 00:10 am
interesting thread this but lets take a step back. I think the real issue is the laws the IRB have put in place especially at the breakdown and ruck areas. The refs have inconsistent days and that arguably can be down to interpretation of a law that is flawed to begin with.
Life was simple when you were abel to ruck a player out. We had fewer infringements at the breakdown and if you did it was easily spotted. The ball was killed less with the danger of boots flying to ruck player out. Less was left to interpretation. So Bryce would rightly say I interpreted the breakdown and ruck laws in the way that that I did. You cannot point the finger at him because the law is a useless law. The amount of discussion and pre match discussion around this law tells you that no one is clear on this. There is less margin for error in interpreting what is a forward pass or not and that is where the critiscm should be directed.!
11 Oct 2011, 04:23 am
There is little use in squealing but one of keo’s “journo’s” pointed out how Brycie had penalised the Aussies so heavily in a previous game. But how about that they squealed to Paddy and got Brycie nobbled to be more lenient on Pocock. They knew in advance how he was going to blow.
As for Blek Panties and Burger falling over the ball; it’s what McCaw does game in and game out. It’s a Paddy rule.
11 Oct 2011, 12:49 pm
@husky(husky)-53:
Pleased to see youre not denying it then.
By your definition, that makes him
“a cheat”
right ?
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