561 Comments

• 1.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:22 am

  give it to heyneke dragons!

• 2.Sharkie10:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:26 am

  THIS IS A LETTER FROM AN AUSTRALIAN FAN AFTER THEIR QUARTER FINAL VICTORY….

  “I wonder what our boys (AUSTRALIANS) would have said faced with the same situation of blatant (Gross)incompetence (‘MALICIOUS DISHONESTY’) by Mr Bryce Lawrence.”

  LIMITING THE POWER OF THE WHISTLE

  There are no doubt a lot of Australian rugby supporters celebrating our victory over the Springboks yesterday. There are also a number of us that are wondering how on earth we managed to pull it off against a side that dominated possession and territory and lineouts. Now, I don’t want to take anything away from the Australian victory – our boys did perform superbly but on the day the Springboks were, we have to admit, the better side. The boks, as always were magnanimous in defeat with a somewhat pragmatic approach to the result. I wonder what our boys would have said faced with the same situation of blatant incompetence by Mr Bryce Lawrence.

  I support Australia and always will but for those of us that believe in fair play this was a hollow victory. This was very much like fighting a worthy opponent with one arm strapped behind his back – it leaves a bad taste. There were rumours about Mr Lawrence’s impartiality before kick-off from a lot of ex pat South Africans now living in Australia but we tend to dismiss these conspiracy theories with a grin. Certainly, Mr Lawrence’s performance on the field did nothing to dispel those theories. His performance was nothing short of abysmal. He did not award the bok try because of a dubious forward pass. I have looked and looked and to me, anyway, it did not look forward. Minutes later when the boks once again breached our defences and were well on the way to scoring another try, he called them back for a forward pass. If the first call was contentious, there certainly was nothing wrong with the second one. Here, I must ask – why not use the “eye in the sky”? An impressive expensive piece of equipment that should be used for such decisions.

  He failed to penalise Pocock for slowing the ball down. If we had played like that against the All Blacks, they would not have been so quiet about it. – and rightly so. In the dying minutes of the game he was in full view of at least 2 high tackles by our boys that went unpunished. Any of these transgressions, if properly acted on, would have surely given the game to the Boks with their advantage over territory. To rub salt in the South African wounds, he awarded a high tackle to the Wallabies for a chest high tackle.

  We won, but did we really? Our sport has always been regarded as a “hooligans game played by gentlemen” – If we do not want rugby union to degenerate into a farce that soccer can become we need to make sure that our refs are of suitable calibre. They need to be trustworthy gentlemen.

  Mr Lawrence, I would advise against any planned holidays to South Africa for a couple of years.

  Chris Davis

  The Australian

• 3.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:26 am

  and let his mandate be to win every Test match, each and every one, no judge me at the world cup nonsense!

• 4.Bagel:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:27 am

  Not sure about this…

  He certainly wasn’t so great for Leicester and with the Bulls he took a very long time to gain success and had a golden generation at his disposal albeit he was obviously involved in a lot of their development.

  But I can’t really offer a better alternative besides someone like Mitchell. Coetzee comes across as far too conservative for me.

• 5.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:27 am

  @Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-2:this has been posted ad nauseum man get over the game…we lost that’s it

• 6.Bagel:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:30 am

  @Sharkie10(Sharkie10)-2: @Transformation(Transformation)-5: Exactly, farkin move on already. We had countless opportunities to win the game and we didn’t. The game is cruel sometimes and can be great like in 2007 when we had the easiest run in possible.

  Can’t wait for 2012…

• 7.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:30 am

  @Bagel(Bagel)-4: coetzee is no more conservative than heineken…see what he did with msteyn & brummer

• 8.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:44 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-7: please, in 2007 he appointed Todd Louden- Auz backline coach. The bulls scored the most points of the tournament. He had the insight to use a foreign coach. Heck he did this with Derick Hougaard at 10! Who was probably more one dimetional than MSteyn.

  Definitely not as conservative as AC. Even though AC has the most naturally talented backs to his disposal the Stormers stay conservative.

• 9.Kobus Kitty:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:49 am

  I say no to this. He is an average coach that had the advantage of an incredibly talented group of players. He’ll also continue the selection of that mother f-ucker Pierre Spies no matter how he plays. Spies does wondeful BJ.

• 10.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:49 am

  thanks ryan, youv’e finally done something i can wholeheartedly agree with.

• 11.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:51 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-3:
  yes, also the win/loss ratio against the blacks.
  its stretching too far out.

• 12.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 08:53 am

  @Jeez(Jeez)-8: jake consulted alan zondagh, anton eddie and eddie jones to work on the Bok backline, it doesn’t mean he was less conservative because of those guys. heyneke worship at the alter of “structure”

• 13.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:01 am

  Ryan Vrede, critisizing Matfield’s authority on the game…I think that’s a bit rich. He would know how the system works and have seen the boks perform under many coaches – he knows Coetzee fro Jake-era, Heyneke through many years.
  What makes Vrede such an expert?

• 14.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:01 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-12:
  if thats same alter where they display three super titles and 23 c/cups then i want to go to there

• 15.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:04 am

  I don’t think Heyneke is so boring, he did have some real brutes at his disposal and taylor-made the GP to the guys and he has been massively successful. Also bear in mind that free-flowing play happens only on the foundation of structure. That is why the Boks beat the ABs and Aus when we attack set-piece.

• 16.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:05 am

  tailor-made

• 17.BreakdownBoy:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:06 am

  So funny, he criticises the ‘institution’ of SA rugby’s view on foreign coaches then he says the best man for the job is Meyer? WTF? No coherent point at all.

  Your selection of Meyer just agreed with the sentiment that SA isn’t ready for a foreign coach.

• 18.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:09 am

  @BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-17: Good point. I don’t think that people understand the complexities of coaching specific cultures and in SA case, multiple cultures. Reading White’s book it was clear that man-management was key and this can be done when understanding backrounds

• 19.Kobus Kitty:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:10 am

  Mitchell or Jones for assistant coach. I want to win.

• 20.Kobus Kitty:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:11 am

  Will PdV be releasing a Biography? “Earn a big paycheck without doing anything”

• 21.TheTackler:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:12 am

  When Heyneke Meyer took the step up from coaching Currie Cup to Super 12, he took a very very l-o-n-g time to come up to speed lost 20 of his first 22 games and his Bulls came a distant stone last two years running.

• 22.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:12 am

  We need to win. We produce enough talent to dominate world rugby the way the ABs do- but with WC victories included

• 23.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:14 am

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-21: Yes, he did start very slowly but he had to build from the floor. Getting the Bok job gives him access to all the elite players.

• 24.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:16 am

  I have to say I also believe Alistair or Brendan Venter would be good options

• 25.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:20 am

  @once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-14:
  or is it more like 32?…

• 26.Alucard:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:22 am

  Coetzee and Rassie have done stuff all at WP. Without Nienaber’s work on defence it’s the same substandard tripe that they’ve always had throughout the past decade! If either one of these two clowns gets the job we are in for a very tough four years. Meyer, Jake and Eloff are our only test worthy coaches. Since Jake has ruled himself out, and that Eloff will never get the nod over Coetzee and Chester in this crazy race driven country of ours that leaves only Meyer. But it is to my knowledge that he will not be in the running for the position. So that leaves us in a terrible mess. We need an architect, visionary leader to scalped a new team. Aside from Meyer and Jake, no such person exists in SA. We produce very poor coaches unfortunately. In fact, the entire coaching scene and nonexistant progression system is so flawed and pathetic that it is one of the biggest culprits in allowing such idiotic coaches through to the top positions. Ludeke, Drotske, Straeuli, De Villiers, Muir and Coetzee would never see the light of day if they were New Zealanders. They have systems in place to make sure that the best man gets the job and that their coaches are up to scratch. That has been their only advantage over us the last twenty years, and it’s been all the difference. SARU better think very carefully who it elects this time. Another clown will be the end of the Boks for good.

• 27.Alucard:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:25 am

  @TheTackler(TheTackler)-21: He started with a very poor team, worst in SA history of Super rugby and had to completely reorganize it from the inside out. You completely ignore the fact that he put completely new systems in place off the field as well. In short, he did not take the short cut to nowhere that most South Africans do repeatedly with no success. He set the stage for long term success. That’s how it’s done. Meyer is far and away our best coach to take over the Boks. Had he been in charge of the Boks in 2008 he would have created a dynasty!

• 28.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:26 am

  “WHAT DOES VICTOR MATFIELD KNOW”

  Jeez Ryan you are a chippy bellend.

  Matfield’s forgotten more about the game than you’ll ever know.

  You talk to Meyer quite often do you?

  Whatthefuckever.

• 29.WP Till I Die:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:33 am

  Heyneke Meyer will not want the poisoned chalice.

  He has a sweet deal going at the Bulls.

• 30.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:34 am

  @once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-14: i don’t remember saying conservatism doesn’t win you anything. look at australia last saturday, played the whole game with minimal possession and tackled nearly twice as much as the boks did but still won the game by 2pts.

• 31.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:34 am

  @WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-29: why not?

• 32.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:35 am

  I think Meyer is a good coach. I wouldn’t question his record…

  I do have some problems though if he were to be appointed:
  - Favoring of Bulls players. I want the best for the Springboks… and that means not including the likes of Greyling, Kruger, Stegmann, Potgieter, Spies, Olivier, Basson, Kirchner… the list goes on. I am concerned that Meyer would load up on Bulls players who simply don’t cut it.
  - I am in favor of a balanced approach. Kick when you need to. Run when you need to. Defend well. We don’t want Blue Bulls rugby.

  None of the guys seem perfect… but hopefully those in charge know what is needed and have a thorough interviewing process.

• 33.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:36 am

  Brendan Venter.

  We need smarts and muscle, not dom f*k deurmekaar and muscle.

• 34.WP Till I Die:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:36 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-28:

  Touché.

• 35.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:36 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-18: you mean like Graham Henry coaching pakehas, fijians, samoans and maoris?

  he seems to be doing a great job of it.

• 36.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:40 am

  The bloke DOESNT WANT THE JOB.

  Now what the f*ck more do you want to hear? Heyneke Meyer has and WILL not make himself available for the post as he has siad NUMEROUS times over the last 4 years or so.

  The front runner is Alister Coetzee with assistant Rassie Erasmus & Brendan Venter.

  Or unless they go left field completely AND go with a foreigner with maybe McKenzie,Gatland,Mitchell which I highly doubt.

  @Alucard(Alucard)-26:

  Jake?? Eloff??? WTF??? thats a joke especially Eloff who is coaching at Boland.His success has come at age group level which makes him no different to Jake/De Villiers.And now since SA wants a coach with better credentials how does Eloff figure in that criteria?

• 37.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:42 am

  @WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-29:

  exaclty.

  why get involved with the twatsticks at saru when you have the chance to build a dynasty at the bulls?

• 38.Kietzphat:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:43 am

  Guess this all depends on whether Meyer is content with being a Bulls coaching legend or if he wants to the chance to be a Springbok coaching legend as well.

  As for picking mostly Bulls players? I’m not the biggest Bulls rugby fan, but every coach has their favourites.

  Kitch picked a mostly Transvaal side for the World Cup
  Mallett had a soft spot for Bob, even dropping Teich for an injured Bob for the ’99 World Cup (which he later admitted was a big mistake)
  Jake had Ashwin.

  Etc

  I think if its effective, its a bit petty to look for negatives. Yes there will always be room to improve, but to fault a side for winning with “boring” rugby is pedantic unless there is a much better solution easily available.

• 39.Alucard:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:46 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-36: Actually, Eloff achieved far more than the lauded Mitchell with inferior player at Super rugby level. The only joke here is that you pretend to know something about Bok rugby.

• 40.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:49 am

  Biggest load of rubbish I’ve seen in a few days.

  - Rebuilding of what?
  - How does Vrede know we are ready for a foreign coach? We take pride in the Springboks being South African… I’d feel uncomfortable with a foreigner in charge, especially one who drifts away from our traditional strengths.
  - So what if Matfield has an opinion. What makes Ryan Vrede’s opinion more valuable?

  Heyneke Meyer should apply. He is a good coach. But that was a poor attempt at discrediting a player who only has the best interests of the Springboks in mind.

  Vrede is ‘n d00s.

• 41.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:49 am

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-33: you think venter has changed his mind on the bok job, cos in the past he has said he doesn’t want it!

• 42.Skeppie:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:49 am

  Heyneke Meyer would be a great choice. He may have taken a while to get the Bulls to where they were but he didn’t exactly have the raw materials he needed when he first started, once he had the players he needed and the structures in place the Bulls became a great side. He’s got a history of developing young talent and bringing players though a structured set up. Give Meyer the right tools and he will be great for us!

• 43.Alucard:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:49 am

  @Kietzphat(Kietzphat)-38: Jake had little options at wing for nearly all of his four years. Aside from Habana there was the aging Paulse. By 2007 he was finished, and JP was still a 15 then, but he dropped Willemse and the rest is history.

• 44.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:51 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-36:

  Gert Small?

  I’m not sure that Rassie and The Mad Doctor get on.

• 45.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:54 am

  Meyer perfect for SA, Mallett perfect for England

• 46.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:55 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-36: Gatland is bound by a watertight contract to coach Wales till 2015

• 47.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:57 am

  Where is Chester these days?

• 48.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:57 am

  @Alucard(Alucard)-39: bwahahahahaha don’t go there alutard…really chap

• 49.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:58 am

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-33: Venter will continue to have the Boks playing kick and chase rugby in the most backward old school way imaginable. They might well win but if they don’t he’ll be giving the Aussies, Kiwis and referees both barrels and few biscuits to boot (no pun..ok pun).

• 50.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 09:59 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-47: doing commentary for SABC

• 51.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:02 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-50: That’s career limiting. But I guess it beats his previous gig of flogging catering equipment.

• 52.Alucard:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:03 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-48: Says the racist little shack dweller who was repeatedly exposed in support of Bleater duh Failures. Go back to your shanty town, that after you give back the laptop you mugged off an innocent hard working tax payer. There’s a good boy.

• 53.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:06 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-47:

  I think he has been trainiing the Mau Mau in Kenya.

• 54.justrugby:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:07 am

  What is obvious is that we need an english speaking coach Kitch, Macintosh, Mallet and Jake all reasonably successful !!!

  Viljoen, Strauelli, Markgraaf, Carel etc, not so succesful ……..we have the recipe now just the correct ingredient s needed !!!

  And with that I am going to find my “staaldak, webbing and geweer” and head for the trenches !!!!

• 55.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:07 am

  Venter
  Mallet
  Mitchell

  In that order.

• 56.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:09 am

  I have long been a critic of the stupid tournament that is the World Cup.

  It is a great money making tool for the old farts at the IRB, but really doesn’t mean much for the big test nations.

  Meyer’s plan – before he was stabbed in the back by the vote of a certain Mr. J.F on the SARU board – was to make the Boks the best team in the world EVERY year, not just at the odd World Cup.

  Getting our win record against the All Blacks back to a positive ratio is the ultimate goal that should be aimed for, not winning every third World Cup and losing most of our big games inbetween.

  An acceptable level of achievement for the Boks should be:

  60% win ratio against the All Blacks
  75% win ratio against the Wallabies
  90% win ratio against England and France
  100% win ratio against Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Argentina and Italy.

  I believe under Heyneke we can achieve that.

• 57.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:10 am

  No Venter for me thank you, Mallett or Mitchell.

• 58.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:13 am

  @Alucard(Alucard)-52: “shack dweller” hehehe you have an active imagination mate put to good use

• 59.justrugby:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:14 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-56:

  Truth be told ,I would not be unhappy with a Meyer appointment !!!

• 60.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:14 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-56:

  The above would take the Boks to around an 83% win ratio in any given year, assuming 13 tests, broken down as follows:

  All Blacks: 3 games
  Wallabies: 3 games
  England/France: 2 games
  Other Six Nations opponents: 5 games.

  We should then win between 10 and 11 games each year, depending on the home and away test breakdown.

  83% over a 4 year period, that is where the Boks should be.

• 61.justrugby:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:15 am

  @cab(cab)-57:

  That’ would be first prize imo !!!

• 62.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:15 am

  @justrugby(justrugby)-59:

  Thanks for telling the truth.

• 63.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:15 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-56: i say heyneke must get the job NOW and achieve all the targets you have mentioned chop chop…

• 64.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:17 am

  No coach is going to get SA up to Nz’s 80% win record until the black population starts coming online – maybe in 10 years.

• 65.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:18 am

  @justrugby(justrugby)-59: kick and chase rugby JR, how exactly would the Boks attack progress? realistically SA need to move on from that approach if they want to dominate the Kiwis and Wallabies, the Boks already have better forwards than both teams, it’s in the backs where they need to improve and Meyer’s teams have never been able to attack with any fluidity, preferring the likes of Derick Hougaard to work the corners.

• 66.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:20 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-63:

  Glad we agree.

  I would demand an 83% win ratio over the course of 4 years. Give the man a year to get his team settled, and then re-evaluate his performance after two years.

  None of this give him 4 years to build to the next World cup nonsense.

  Having said that, I find it interesting that you wish to hold Meyer to such a higher standard than Snorre and other coaches were held to.

• 67.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:22 am

  @Alucard(Alucard)-39:

  Hahahaha you are a complete joke,inferior player base…Eloff??? Mitchell had NO Boks or any real players of international quality

  Eloff had:(Internationals)

  Jaque Fourie
  Ricky Januarie
  Jaque Cronje
  Andre Pretorius
  Joe van Niekerk
  Lawrence Sephaka
  Jongi Nokwe (who he let go after 2 trials-became a Bok at Cheetahs)
  Solly Tyibilika
  Lukas van Biljon

  Eloff also had talented youngsters at his disposal:

  Jean Deysel
  Willem Alberts
  Rory Kockott
  Jano Vermaak
  Louis Ludik
  Francois Uys
  Johan van Deventer
  Paul Delport
  Sarel Pretorius(Valke at the time)
  Gerhard Vosloo
  Hendrik Meyer
  Doppies le Grange
  Walter “Karavan” Venter

  Inferior player pool se gat…Eloff was diabolical at Lions

  Try again.

• 68.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:22 am

  @cab(cab)-64:

  That’s nonsense. We had a superior record to NZ BEFORE the black population even participated.

  The black population is a bonus, but the government’s lack of providing rugby at government schools isn’t going to hijack the Boks progress. We will make do with what comes through in private and former model C schools.

• 69.Staal:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:23 am

  ain’t gonna happen!

• 70.wp_boytjie:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:24 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-65:

  Yes good point that , can’t see the Bok tactics improve by continuing to play 10 man rugby with Meyer as coach. We should be playing total rugby with gamebreakers such as De Jongh , Lambie and Hougaardt being the future.

• 71.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:25 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-66: nothing strange about it. we are NOT a mediocre nation and heyneke needs to know that or stay at the bulls and rebuild them.

• 72.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:25 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-68:
  nah we had a superior record against NZ, and other sides, but our overall win record again other nations was not anything close to 80% like NZ. think it was around 70%. Agree with you tho that for the black population to make a difference, the sport needs to be grown in public schools and especially in areas like the eastern cape.

• 73.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:26 am

  @Staal(Staal)-69:

  Staal, jy stel my baie teleur met daardie stelling. Dis n realiteit wat ek nie wil aanvaar nie.

  Dalk verander hy van plan. Dalk kry hy n Damaskus ervaring dat hy bedoel is om die Bokke af te rig. Wie weet. Enige iets is moontlik.

  Terloops. Na jou mening, is dit net NOU wat dit nie gaan gebeur nie, of sal dit NOOIT weer n moontlikheid wees nie?

• 74.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:27 am

  Why are people begging for Mallet?

  What has he done for Italy?

  What did he accomplish at Province as DOR?

  Let’s look to the future with hope in our hearts and hair on our chest.

• 75.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:29 am

  @cab(cab)-72:

  If you can have a superior win record against NZ today, then you can win 80% of your games against lesser opposition, I am fairly confident of that.

  Remember, the Boks played very few games in those days, and losses to the British Lions dragged that ratio down significantly. There are no British Lions tests in the next decade.

• 76.justrugby:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:30 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-65:

  True!!

  Off the point how’s the reaction been to Martin Johnson over there, do you think he will survive ??

• 77.Staal:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:31 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-73: imo….. Demaskus ervaring is sekerlik altyd n moontlikheid want daar is net 1 konstante en dis dat alles verander – maar glo my dis uiters uiters onwaarskynlik op die huidige tyd!

  daar is groot geld uitgehaal om HM te hou om die Bulls weer n krag te maak….. en hy is gefokus…

  jy sal binnekort **** v nog spelers wat geteken is…. (voorry, slotte)

• 78.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:31 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-74: in the same breath, wha are people calling for brendan venter?

  his team has won the aviva premiership the equivalent of what really, currie cup or super rugby?

• 79.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:31 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-75:
  lol, dunno tactitus but reckon you hold meyer, or anyone else to 83%, and they wont even last a season.

• 80.Staal:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:32 am

  **** ? wat de – ek hettie gevloek nie!

• 81.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:33 am

  Why don’t we just appoint John Smit as head coach, Victor Matfield as forwards coach and Fourie du Preez as backline coach?

  If the reports are correct, they’ve been doing this exact same job for a number of years already.

  It also solves the problem of a graceful exit in their twilight years as players.

• 82.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:33 am

  @justrugby(justrugby)-76: reaction is as you’d predict after exiting at the QF stage, I think he may survive but mainly because the RFU are in a shambolic state at the moment, there’s no one left in charge to sack him. Personally, I wouldn’t mind THAT much if he stayed on, he has won around 75% of his tests in the past year with a young team, but if he is to go then Mallett and Mallinder are the favourites to replace him.

• 83.Staal:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:34 am

  @cab(cab)-79: it a massive statement but imo we would have won 2011 if HM was there..

  ya – we will never know… but i am speculating….

• 84.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:34 am

  83 % is a tall order but, if we were truly playing to our potensial it would be possible. Is the ABs win record not over 90%?

• 85.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:34 am

  @Staal(Staal)-80: Klink soos H O E R in Keo se soutie Afrikaans.

• 86.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:34 am

  @Staal(Staal)-77:

  Ek weet van Wilhelm Steenkamp. Ek het sprake gehoor van die Pumas stut, ek wonder wie nog.

  Maar voorry en slot was waar ons die meeste tekort skiet.

  Enige kans dat Victor nog een seisoen sal speel?

• 87.Staal:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:34 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-81:

• 88.Bagel:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:34 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-58: You shouldn’t take that racism, but I respect your ability to shrug it off.

  What does Matfield mean when he says ‘We aren’t ready for an international coach’? That’s pathetic, how conservative are these guys? If I were a pro rugby player I would relish to opportunity to learn new tactics.

  Our successful coaches have always just implemented some structure and a nice environment for the team and then our superior talent won us games. Imagine that talent actually received some proper innovative coaching behind a professional coaching staff that only cared about results and only picked on form as I believe a foreign coach would.

• 89.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:35 am

  I can’t for the life of me understand why people are suggesting AC as backline coach, other than to include a black member of the coaching team under their preferred head coach. Alistair did nothing for the Lions or the Boks in that capacity. I still remember him stating, after 2 years with Jake, that the backs will be adopting some more attacking moves, but don’t expect things like offloading in the tackle yet. That’s not the words that I want from a backline coach.

• 90.Staal:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:35 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-86: Puma stut is gesign.

• 91.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:36 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-81: And Bryce Lawrence to teach us the breakdown rules..

• 92.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:37 am

  @cab(cab)-79:

  Let’s look at next season:

  2 home tests against England – win both. – 2 wins
  6 Tri Nations games – win all 3 home games and 1 away game – 4 wins
  Beat the Northern Hemishpere teams at the end of the year – 4 wins.

  That’s 10 out of 12 = 83%.

• 93.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:39 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-82: i read somewhere that after some dude in the RFU resigned jonno was to do his own assessmen and recommendations, has that been sorted out?

• 94.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:41 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-92: That is very possible. Even if we don’t win away in 3N we are still at 75%.

• 95.Skeppie:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:41 am

  @cab(cab)-79: Cab I reckon Tacitus has it spot on, we need to instill a results driven set up as opposed to just accepting that we can lose some games between world cups in the name of “building towards the world cup”. We seem to have become too comfortable with losing. Take what we have at our disposal against what the Aussies have and theoretically we should beat them at least 80% of the time.

• 96.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:42 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-63: @wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-70:

  Heyneke with this player pool:

  1.Guthro/Beast/Oosthuizen/Greyling
  2.Bismark/Chilliboy/Strauss/Maku
  3.Jannie/CJ/WP Nel/Oosthuiyzen
  4.Bakkies/Flip/Elstadt/Mostert
  5.Bekker/Kruger/Steenkamp
  6.Brussow/Louw/Daniel/Potgieter
  7.Smith/Burger/Alberts/Deysel
  8.Spies/Johnson/Kankowski/Vermuelen

  9.Hougaard/S.Pretorius/Duvenage/Pienaar
  10.M.Steyn/Lambie/Jantjies/Goosen
  11.Habana/Mvovo/Mapoe
  12.F.Steyn/De Villiers/F.Venter
  13.Fourie/De Jongh/Sadie
  14.JPP/Basson/Sithole
  15.Aplon/Taute/vd Heever

  With his coaching credentials & talent of this generation…would it be out of place to expect HIGHER standards of Meyer results wise to his predecessors???

• 97.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:44 am

  @Skeppie(Skeppie)-95: Jip. The reality is that 90% of the world’s rugby playing community would probably reference the ABs as the world’s best even though they have performed poorly at WC. We need to build a similiar status and definately have the players to do so.

• 98.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:45 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-92: if Heyenke can guarantee that, let him get the job. i want to win, i don’t care who is doing it

• 99.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:45 am

  Heyneke took the Bulls from nothing to the most successful SA franchise ever seen.

  He did it once.

  Now he is aiming to do it again.

  If he does so for a second time, then surely there can be no denying his absolute genius.

  His 5 years at the Bulls will pretty much expire after the next World Cup.

  Maybe that will be a good time for him to finally save the floundering ship that is SA rugby. Which he would have done in 2008 already, if spineless backstabbers didn’t end his journey – and SA’s hopes for the last 4 years along with it.

  We reap what we sow, and the moment Divvy was appointed in place of Heyneke we should have bunkered down and prepared for 4 years of suffering – which is exactly what happened.

• 100.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:45 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-78:

  I dunno.

  brendan venter would definitely not be my choice.

  given that saru won’t go for a johnny foreigner then it’s going to be small or ac.

• 101.Helen:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:47 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-96:

  100%
  Would just replace vd heever with Kirchner

• 102.Tacitus:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:47 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-100:

  Coetzee is such a mediocre choice. Here we go again.

• 103.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:47 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-93: it was RFU chairman Martyn Thomas who said that, he is supposedly in charge at the moment and has given his backing to Johnson until 2015. However, Thomas’s hold on his own position is perilious having already had two no-confidence votes against him. Johnson may well resign of his own volition.

  Also, what Bagel said, well done for not taking the racist bait, you shouldn’t have to read that ****.

• 104.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:48 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-99: Hoskins admitted that Snor’s appointment was not only for rugby reasons – I guess SARU needs to accept results based on something other than rugby wins? We do reap what we sow

• 105.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:51 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-102:

  Them’s the choices.

  Doesn’t have me jumping up and down either.

• 106.Skeppie:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:53 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-97: Too true, truth be told if you look at our player pool, school set-up, facilities, financial clout etc we should also be superior to the AB’s. Clearly since readmission we have not been, we need to ask ourselves why. Is it the coaches we select, our players mind sets, structure? We need to acheive excellence, anything else would be a waste of our potential.

• 107.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:53 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-105: surely Erasmus is in the running?

• 108.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:56 am

  @Skeppie(Skeppie)-106: I reckon we lose some serious talent after highschool and they are basically lost to the game. I am based in Limpopo and school rugby showcases some really amazing talent! I have seen black players of such quality that would blow the minds of scouts and blow away the need for the “quota” debate. Sadly, they are not spotted and melt away into mediocrity.

• 109.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:56 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-102:

  Your man WONT take the job.

  If he really wanted a challenge and to serve his country then he would.

  He would now have the job and room to manouvre as he pleases.He would live and die by his sword. If he chooses Bulls then we must respect his choice.

  Allister Coetzee is the next best choice within SA.

  Otherwise we have to go foreign which will be a difficult task in itself looking at the dynamics that exist in SA rugby landscape.

  Here we go again blah blah blah.Can only play the cards you have at your disposal. If Meyer chooses not to apply then so be it. In another 4 years he may get it or may not get it.His Bulls dynasty may have gone up in flames or not(without Du Preez,Matfield,bakkies,Guthro etc).

  This may be his last chance.

• 110.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:57 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-96: no way, that is a GREAT pool of talent. give meyer the job! and let him choose his own assistants too!

• 111.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:58 am

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-107:

  so they say but I have my doubts.

  he hates dealing with the media, I can’t see someone like that wanting the job.

  we shall see.

• 112.Jeraldjay:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:59 am

  Tired of this speculation sh*t.
  Smal is contracted to Ireland till 2013. All good coaches are already contracted and will play the waiting game for the next 4 years.
  Heneke is the architect of Skop ‘n Jag so he will add more of the same. He says he has a new philosophy going forward but it will take a while to work effectively.
  AC to me is not an option.

  These are the top three candidates and it looks like the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.

• 113.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 10:59 am

  The new glass-roofed stadium in NZ would be perfect for Rassie in the 2012 3N. He can watch the game from right above the center spot!

• 114.Helen:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:01 am

  Heyneke does not have a great media personality.
  He stutters and he battles with English. Also seems to get himself tied in knots when he tries to explain his opinions, like he’s angry with himself.
  He’s bound to drop some pearls which will be hits on youtube

• 115.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:02 am

  Is there no room, as assistant coaches, for the likes of Chean Roux or Kevin Foote? They’ve done incredible work at Varsity Cup level. And, alongside an experienced head coach, either of them could add the new dimension that is sorely needed. Just a suggestion.

• 116.Helen:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:02 am

  Mitchell and Mallet are probably the best qualified options of the available coaches

• 117.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:03 am

  @Helen(Helen)-114: If he can dodge biblical references and add 40+40 we have already made progress.

• 118.Skeppie:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:03 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-108: Thats what worries me about our structures, we almost have too many resources and have lost the need to nurture all of our talent. Think about how little the Aussies have. Take their population, strip away League and Aussie rules and you can appreciate how well they do with such a limited player base. Makes me wonder how bad our set up actually is if we can take all we have and still not be clearly superior to them

• 119.Helen:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:03 am

  I can just imagine the scene:

  After a smoky room meeting with Cheeky and Luke, Heyneke accosts Keo in the corridor and tells him the world needs more people like him.

• 120.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:04 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-110:

  Yeah thats what i say

  BUT

  Meyer may fear unfamiliar ground… he went to Leceister with little success after they had been the most dominant side in England..(Granted his wife’s illness was unfortunate & may have affected him adversely,I dont know.)But he failed there.

  Dont know…Ball in his court.

• 121.Helen:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:04 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-115:

  Hmmm… Kevin Foote?
  Should be in the running, I agree

• 122.Bagel:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:06 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-99: The Boks cannot afford the horrendous results the Bulls experienced under Heyneke in that ‘building’ process. He had a system that he needed to drill into his players and he took a very long time to do it and had the most talented Bull’s generation at his disposal. He’s going to have to get results fast with players from different Unions with different styles and judging by their team now, it’s likely few of them will come from the Bulls.

• 123.Skeppie:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:06 am

  @Helen(Helen)-116: I am very pro Heyneke Meyer but jeez I reckon John Mitchell would also be a great choice. His rugby knowledge is excellent and I think his coaching style is ideal for our players.

• 124.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:07 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-115:

  come now.

  this isn’t SA’s Got Talent.

  that’s like Toks singing at Covent Garden.

• 125.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:07 am

  @Helen(Helen)-114:
  two words…wow!

• 126.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:08 am

  @Helen(Helen)-119: Well, seeing that Keo and Co are always in the know – why not make keo headcoach, Vrede in the backline and JC upfront?

• 127.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:08 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-124: Hey Goenta, sorry for not listing one of the three coaches you’ve heard of. Shall we go back to Harry Viljoen then?

• 128.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:09 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-127:

  who is harry viljoen?

• 129.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:10 am

  @Bagel(Bagel)-122: That may be the only way that Vermaak wil play for the boks…maybe he knew something?

• 130.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:11 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-128: Before your time, I guess. He coached Before iPhone.

• 131.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:11 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-128: Bring back Harry? We sure will be an elegant bunch of business tycoons – but can we tackle?

• 132.bananaboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:12 am

  Give it to the Cheetahs boys. Naka and Heinrich have done an amazing job at the Cheetahs in my opinion with limited pool and have shown that they can develop players.

• 133.stormersboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:13 am

  Alistair is the only logical choice for many reasons. Not that he’d nescessarily be my choice, but I just don’t see anyone else getting it, given all the issues around the position,

• 134.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:14 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-131:

  elegant?

  harry used to wear that nasty leather jacket that made him look like a photocopier salesman.

• 135.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:15 am

  @bananaboy(bananaboy)-132: The Cheetahs perform regardless of Naka. He’s like a fax machine. You probably need one in your office, but it’s not make-or-break-your-business stuff.

• 136.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:16 am

  @Skeppie(Skeppie)-118: I am also thinking that we have an embarressment of riches which is causing us to pick only the craven weekers and SA schools boys. Only handful of these make it through. How does the scouting structure work? Do we invest into youngsters beyond just the game to ensure they can sustain the pressures of big rugby? I reckon many receive a salary to play and settle for booze and 5 minutes of fame.

• 137.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:16 am

  people please! basically we need to create a media and grapevine storm in support of meyer.

  this way it will be some kind of greek phrased situation like a paradox or a rubicon or a damacus or a damocles sword or whatever is apropriate for both saru and any ptotential taker for the job other than heyneke.

  we need to mobilise!
  stop talking about change and be the change!

  ask not what the springboks can do for you but what you can do for the springboks.

• 138.WOLFMAN21:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:17 am

  I read somewhere that Paul Treu is likely to be employed as backline coach, or assistant coach.

  The new coach won’t have complete control over the coaching set up, and that rules a guy like Heyneke Meyer out, and probably also rules guys like Plumtree, Venter and Mitchell out. Mitchell and Venter don’t play nicely with others, and will struggle to function within SARU.

• 139.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:18 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-133: Jake strongly urged SARU to give it to Alistair last time around..

• 140.Staal:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:19 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-134:

• 141.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:19 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-134: Yes, but that’s Viljoen elegance. I see you know ol’ Harry well.

• 142.Staal:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:21 am

  so is Fleckie now in the mix or not?

• 143.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:21 am

  @WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-138: As long as we don’t play Fiji 15-man rugby as a result..but we will be fit, very fit

• 144.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:21 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-134: Reminds me of our woodwork teacher in high school, those jackets. And that’s a very unflattering comparison.

• 145.bananaboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:22 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-135: He has brought through a lot of talent unheard of before and is willing to make the tough choices I think. A fax machine makes no choices/decisions it just performs on instructions. The most difficult task for a coach is making the right choices at International level with regards to players and matching that with a playing style.

  Meyer is a good choice I would agree, if we are willing to give him the time to develop his approach. At both the Bulls and Leicester he showed that, although having achieved little at the latter he was on the way to turning them into a force and just needed the time to do so.

• 146.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:23 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-144: My woodwork teacher was also 1 XV coach. We were unbeaten that year…

• 147.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:24 am

  @bananaboy(bananaboy)-145: Heyneke is also like a copier, he made a copy of Derick Hougaardt and called it Morne Steyn.

• 148.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:25 am

  I don’t understand people slamming Meyer for the time he took to make the Bulls successful “because he had the most talented generation”. He BUILT the most talented generation! He built the team, the structures, the support personnel, etc etc from effectively nothing.

• 149.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:25 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-133: don’t go hiding behind bushes now, say what you want to say openly!

  SAFA have appointed many foreign and white south african coaches since 1992, i don’t remember not once has the ministry of sport interfered.

  SARU can appoint whoever they want as long as they guy satisfies ALL the requirement/criteria they set.

• 150.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:25 am

  @bananaboy(bananaboy)-145: If they start making noises about appointing Naka, I will personally step in and stop it. I don’t normally like to get involved, but for that I will.

• 151.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:25 am

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-133:

  Agreed. Give it to Allister and get it over with. Not my preferred choice, but I’m not about to jump of a bridge either. I’ve got faith in him.

• 152.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:26 am

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-148: I’m with you on that comment- building it yourself shows that he understands all the moving parts of the machine that is winning-rugby.

• 153.Staal:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:27 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-150: you going to put a “hit” on him?

• 154.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:28 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-141:

  his other fave outfit was white rugby shorts 1996 vintage.

  he liked them to match his white SL.

• 155.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:29 am

  @Staal(Staal)-153: No, I’ll just tell SARU to stop fcking around with stupid ideas. Sometimes one must speak sternly.

• 156.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:29 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-154: And he could go straight from the practise field to night out with his black leather jacket blending with the interior!

• 157.Bagel:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:30 am

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-151: Yeah he’ll be fine. I know that he is well liked by the players, he’s calm, media savvy (sort of) has loads of experience and surrounds himself with great assistants (Proudfoot etc.). I’ve got no problem with him but I would just love a foreign coach.

• 158.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:31 am

  @Staal(Staal)-153:

  indeed.

  we will wait outside his mates house during lunchtime.

  catch him after his nooner.

• 159.rossoneri:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:32 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-110: I agree. Once and for all, just give Meyer the job so that his cheerleaders can get it out of their system.

• 160.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:33 am

  And screw this xenophobic rubbish. If we deemed Pareira and the other bulb nosed one good enough to coach the bafanas, then we can surely consider rugby coaches from abroad. I reckon Warren Gatland would have been a decent candidate, but the Welsh have locked him in a barn somewhere until we’ve appointed someone.

• 161.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:33 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-156:

  indeed.

  sometimes I can’t remember if he is my broker or my dealer.

• 162.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:35 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-160: Gatland really does look the part. Also very well respected in NZ. I reckon Wales ain’t done at WC2011 either.

• 163.Skeppie:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:35 am

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-148: I agree, what he did with the Bulls was mostly down to him, he created what was required for sustainable success. We need someone who can build our Boks into the best side in the world for the next 10 years and beyond, not just for one world cup

• 164.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:35 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-161: When he wears the disney tie-he’s the dealer..

• 165.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:36 am

  @rossoneri(rossoneri)-159:

  why are people who want meyer to be the coach cheerleaders?

  what about people who want mitchell or mallet or AC unit to be the coach?

  are they also cheerleaders?

  how does this work?

  can you detect their cyber pom poms?

  tell me more about your unique gift.

• 166.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:36 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-152: Similarly, I don’t understand the nonsensebeing directed at Coetzee. The Stormers were pathetic under ol’ Kobus. The structures in the union were worse than pathetic, etc. Rassie and Coetzee have worked wonders.

  Anyone saying Coetzee is rubbish merely has to think back to the Stormers’ flyhalf crisis and how it was handled, how the new boys performed… WP has been hit by a swamp of injuries and yet the boys were still within a shout of making the semis. The mark of a good coach.

  I would be happy with either Meyer or Coetzee. I think Meyer won’t apply, as he has said before, and that Coetzee should deinitely apply.

  Though what you could have is Rassie as head; he will look after the structures, Coetzee as the main guy on the field and a variety of specialists brought in.

• 167.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:37 am

  @Skeppie(Skeppie)-163: Yes, and both Meyer and Rassie (with Coetzee) have proven themselves. We need sustained success.

• 168.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:38 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-165: Agreed, is this not the very point of blogging?!

• 169.bananaboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:39 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-150: hahaha Katman you have a gr8 sense of humour. Your man would be ideal of course but they wont choose him

• 170.Yetirat:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:40 am

  What does Victor Matfield know? Ryan do me a favour. You’re a kid, show some respect to one of the greatest Springboks of all time. Usual baseless sentimental drivel coming out here. We’ve heard from numerous sources that Meyer won’t be applying. SARU have already interviewed him remember? They decided he wasn’t the man they wanted. Do you seriously think they will expose themselves for the fools they are by putting him through the entire process again and employing him this time? Coetzee will be getting the job and all of us will be here on this site whinging about how conservative his tactics are and how average the Boks are.

• 171.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:41 am

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-166: I like. The fact that Alistair survived well in Superrugby and CC with diabolical flyhalf situation is magic. He won games playing Coleman at 10 without him even contributing in 1st game just to get him used to the level. He has played 9 at 10. He is bringing the potential of Deon fourie, Nic Koster, Johan sadie, JJ Engelbrecht etc. He looks a good communicator and looks technically sound

• 172.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:43 am

  @Yetirat(Yetirat)-170: Jip, he might just be the greatest bok of all time..

• 173.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:43 am

  If anything, the Stormers have been mismanaged by Rassie who spends all their money on washouts.

  AC has gotten on with players many argue are over the hill, and the worst front-row in Super rugby. Not often you see a front-row with players like Blaauw and Harris in a Super rugby semi-final.

  Everyone complaining about him might as well get over it. He’s going to be the next Springbok coach.

• 174.bananaboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:48 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-172: John Smit thinks so, called him the greatest Bok ever, which is something when some of us can remember Oom Frik, he was a great athlete and player who could destroy the opposition on his own almost.

• 175.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:50 am

  @bananaboy(bananaboy)-174: Sadly, I have only seen snippets of the great man. I believe he had it all.

• 176.bananaboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:50 am

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-173: I think in Alistair and Meyer we have two good candidates my only concern with a SA coach though is the provincial bias. For this reason it may be better to go with a foreign coach.

• 177.bananaboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:53 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-175: As hard as nails, the only lock that came close to him in my opinion thereafter in being able to do the hard work and perform in the lineouts and in general play was Louis Moolman. Hennie Bekker and Vleis Visagie and that shorter WP lock were all good but those 2 were the stand out locks.

• 178.bananaboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:54 am

  @bananaboy(bananaboy)-177: De Villiers Visser was the WP lock

• 179.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:56 am

  @Bismarck Burger(Bismarck Burger)-171: I like Duvenhage at flyhalf. He is a better flyhalf than scrummie and I prefer him to Peter Grant.

• 180.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:57 am

  @bananaboy(bananaboy)-178: Ol’ Hugo was Visser’s WP partner and also good.

  Surprised no one has mentioned Adolf Malan?

• 181.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:58 am

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-179:

  Wouldn’t call him a better flyhalf, but would be nice to find a suitable alternative to Grant. Hopefully van Aswegen steps up. Don’t think Catrakilis is anything more then a decent CC player.

  Duvenage is a very good scrumhalf.

• 182.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 11:59 am

  Anyway as the days lengthen and the shadows shorten a man’s thoughts turn to cricket. The delicate scent of linseed oil and then sweet sound of willow on leather.

  and the fuckshow that is the bullring.

  the ozzies are in town and some payback is in order.

• 183.Skeppie:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:02 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-167: I have a lot of respect for AC ever since his days at the sharks but i do not think he is head coach material just yet (might be a bit unfair of me). My two top candidates would be Heyneke Meyer and John Mitchell, the main problem is though, both are mainly forward coaches…we need to find a really good backline coach to assist. Carlos Spencer? AC himself? Who else is there?

• 184.WP Till I Die:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:03 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-180:

  The only Adolf Malan I know of was Squadron Leader Adolf “Sailor” Malan, South African fighter pilot during the Battle of Britain?

• 185.WP Till I Die:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:05 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-180:

  Ah, wait, that one. The Northern Transvaal lock.

  

• 186.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:06 pm

  @WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-184: Partner of Adri Geldenhuys before Adri moved back to EP.

• 187.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:06 pm

  @WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-185: Yup, that giant doorstopper.

• 188.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:07 pm

  @WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-185:

  Google not working properly?

• 189.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:08 pm

  i don’t want alister coetzee near the Bok coaching job, he is the king of rugby excuses and cliches…

  “we didn’t show up” “we weren’t clinical” “taking it one game at a time” blah blah

  with AC coaching the Stormers the only thing that has improved is the defence and that is credit to Nienaber who came along with Rassie from Free State otherwise zilch.

• 190.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:08 pm

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-181: Yup, I liked the look of Gary too.
  Personally, I think Duvenhage got the backline moving better as flyhalf and the next scrummie (forgot his name) showed enough mongrel to be considered as a starting no 9.

  It’s fullback that I am most concerned about. Jantjies doesn’t cut it anymore.

  @Skeppie(Skeppie)-183: Coetzee is the Stormers head coach. Rassie is just very involved with strategy, as a director of rugby should be.

• 191.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:09 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-189: Nonsense.

• 192.WP Till I Die:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:10 pm

  @Gunther(gunther)-188:

  Nope, I grew up reading about Adolph Malan, the fighter ace, that’s all.

  Adolf Malan, the rugby player, played for Northern Transvaal hence my ignorance…

• 193.WP Till I Die:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:11 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-186:

  I remember Adri Geldenhuys, but can’t specifically recall Adolf Malan.

  I see now that he played for Tuks, was born in Germiston.

• 194.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:12 pm

  @Gunther(gunther)-188: Must be on Blackberry.

• 195.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:13 pm

  @WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-193:

  working again.

  well done that man.

  

• 196.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:13 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-190:

  Nic Groom? He looks pretty good. Schreuder as well.

  Duvenage hasn’t got the tactical kicking game to be a full-time flyhalf. His brain works like that of a scrumhalf… a very good scrumhalf. I hope the Stormers don’t use him there too often, because I’d hate to hear arguments for him to play there full-time.

  You are correct, Jantjes doesn’t cut it anymore. I’d like a back-three consisting of Habana, Poolman & Aplon.

• 197.WP Till I Die:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:16 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-194: @Gunther(gunther)-195:

  

• 198.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:16 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-191: good argument

• 199.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:16 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-194:

  berry good.

• 200.WP Till I Die:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:18 pm

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-196:

  And can you believe Province allowed Francois Hougaard to slip through their fingers…

• 201.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:23 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-198:

  poppycock.

  

• 202.funkyzoo:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:25 pm

  The English soap opera continues:
  http://www.rugbyweek.com/news/article.asp?id=32407

• 203.>^..^< katman:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:25 pm

  @Gunther(gunther)-182: According to the crooked Pakistani player agent testifying in the match fixing skandaal, reckons the Aussies are the worst when it comes to “bracket” fixing games. I hope Cricket SA have already contacted Mike Bolhuis to keep an eye on them while they’re here.

• 204.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:26 pm

  @WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-200:

  Would’ve been nice to have him around, but same goes for Gurthro Steenkamp, Wilhelm Steenkamp, Ross Skeate, Ashley Johnson, Carel Hoffmann, Johann Sadie, JJ Engelbrecht and Derick Hougaard (before the Bulls got their hands on him) to name a few. End of the day we can’t sign ‘em all.

  I’d put Duvenages scrumhalf ‘smarts’ ahead of Hougaard at this stage. Really think Hougaard needs to work on a lot of the decision making around being a scrumhalf… but he would’ve been a great addition and probable starting scrumhalf had he stayed.

• 205.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:30 pm

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-196: Schreuder. Think Groom is too ponderous.

  Disagree that Duvenhage doesn’t have the kicking game. He does. Anyways, Honiball didn’t have a tactical kicking game either and neither did Michael du Plessis back in the day.

• 206.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:31 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-198: It’s been argued elsewhere in this thread. I have no wish to re-type what I and others have said already.

• 207.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:31 pm

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-204:

  Hougaard does have a lot of aspects to work on-scrumhalf play wise but I would still back him to start with his mongrel and attacking game much like Will Genia was a couple years ago. Genia was an all out attacker,around fringes and ball career with a decent pass. That was enough for Deans to usurp him above Burgess who was at the time more experienced/better kicker etc.But Genia learnt on the job and 18 months later is the best 9 on the planet.His development all too evident.Hougaard can make the same transition.

• 208.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:34 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-203:

  maybe we can have an 18 century re-enactment and send them to australia in chains.

  who says history never repeats itself?

• 209.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:35 pm

  Just please no more Ruan Pienaar as premier 9.If there are injuries he can feature but he isnt better than Hougaard even with Hougie having deficiencies in his game.Celtic Player of the Year-good for Ruan but has shown any real improvement even if it was Bok B/C team,he still committed the same old errors of yesteryear.

• 210.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:35 pm

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-207:

  Fair call. I’m all out on Ruan at the moment who I think has all the tools to be successful. His few minutes on the field should not be a reflection on what he’s capable of.

• 211.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:45 pm

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-210: ruan is kak bra, deal with it.

• 212.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:54 pm

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-210: I still think Ruan has what it takes to be a great flyhalf. Pity his mental attitude isn’t there. Jones and White were talking about making him the Bok flyhalf if they had continued after the WC.

• 213.The_Don:
  12 Oct 2011, 12:56 pm

  I wonder if Keo or one of his minions has a deal to write a Heyneke Meyer book?

  On that subject, I’m shocked that there hasn’t been an article about what a big mistake it was not playing Butch at 10 in the last few days….

• 214.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:00 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-212: i am in agreement with that too

• 215.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:08 pm

  Lindsay Lohan has more mental toughness than Ruan Pienaar.

  Maybe the Irish winter will put some balls on him.

• 216.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:10 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-211:

  Same category:

  Ruan Pienaar
  Pierre Spies
  Gaffie du Toit
  .
  .
  .
  .Wynand Olivier

  Naturally gifted but dont/didnt produce goods despite numerous opportunities. Its actually a disgrace how many chances they got to entrenched themselves.Basically the Bok Tests have been used as training for them to adapt to that level….3 of those have over 35 tests of mediocrity…unacceptable

• 217.semi:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:10 pm

  im a bit late joining this, but really in a perfect world venter would be the only option. All you need to look at is his record:

  Took London Irish (as player/coach) to their first ever cup victory in 2002 winning both player and coach of the year in england after which he retired to pursue a career in medicine.
  Returned to rugby as a defence coach for the stromers, since then they have finished almost every year with the best defensive record in the competition even after he left.
  Saracens: took them from 9th place the year before he took over to 2nd the following and champions the next.

  Probably the best cv of any coach without test experience since Robbie Deans in 2007.

  Though we all know AC will get the job because Meyer and Venter don’t want to deal with all the other things that go along with the bok coaching job.

• 218.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:13 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-189:
  hehehe here’s more of the same,

  ‘it was a game of two halves’
  ‘going back to the drawing board’
  ‘beaten by a better team on the day’
  ‘It’s all about ‘fronting up’ in the forwards’
  ‘strength and depth’
  ‘Must come away from their 22 with points’
  ‘Take the three’
  ‘Percentage rugby’
  ‘sticking to our structures’
  ‘We’ll take lots of positives out of the match’
  ‘They’re a good side and we’re not taking them lightly’
  ‘A massive challenge for us’

  ‘Obviously we’re disappointed, but there are positives to take from the game.’
  ‘I’m proud of the boys. We prepared well all week. We knew they would come out hard and they did’

  ‘Defence wins games’

  ‘I said last week that the number on Jean’s back does not matter. He stays effective as a runner, decision-maker and leader.’

  ‘I categorise them as world class. The important thing is that they are not seen as individuals, but in the team context as that is where their contribution will be noticed’

  ‘the systems are in place. We’re putting together the pieces of the puzzle. Everybody is working hard and hopefully the season is a big success for us, said Coetzee.’

  ‘Of course we’re also a long way from where we want to be: we still have some six weeks before our first Super 15 game. So it’s not the final product yet.”’

  “I mean, you’d love to have a Pat Lambie and Elton Jantjies to go with your Peter Grant and Lionel Cronje, wouldn’t you? But nobody has that luxury: who is to say that our flyhalf depth outside our top two will be any worse than the Bulls, for instance?”

  ‘Our physical intensity will have to be massive for the full 80 minutes if we want to come out with a positive result. ‘

  ‘It will be vital for us to be accurate and to make better decisions than the last time ‘

  ‘The team is in a good space at the moment’

  i’ll keep digging transie…

  ‘

• 219.Sheriff:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:13 pm

  POEM FOR BRYCE- ( thinking ’bout you mate )

  Why did you have to do it Bryce?
  Mistakes galore, not once, not twice even much more than thrice
  This you did to get your slice
  But, I guess in the end, you will have to pay the price

  Sheriff
  2011

• 220.President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:17 pm

  ok article on rugby365 has it where Matfield says , there is zero chance of Meyer making himself available for bok coach job

• 221.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:19 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-211:
  agiile-t would be proud

  @Gunther(gunther)-215:
  a siberian sojourn couldn’t put balls on him.

• 222.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:25 pm

  here’s some more of what allister will dish up for the boks transie:

  “We were beaten by a better team , they scrummed really well and were highly competitive at the breakdown and we made elementary mistakes which cost us,”

  “We will take all the criticism on the chin, but in my books it was still a very good season.”

  “We are at that tipping point and it is important that we keep believing in our systems and structures and I think it is important that we get quality players in terms of our depth,” said Coetzee.

  “Credit to them (Crusaders), but then again rugby is all about momentum and if we had taken the right choices early on then it could have been a different ball game,”

• 223.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:28 pm

  @once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-222: As opposed to the insightfulone-liners delivered by Deans, the stone-faced mumbling nonsense of Johnson, the deadpan inanities of Henry, etc?

• 224.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:32 pm

  I’m getting a little bit tired of hearing about Victor Matfield.

  He has been a fantastic servant of rugby but I felt he overstepped the mark by taking over coaching the team along with Smit. I call it the Smitfield show. Maybe he felt like he had no choice.

  But who is he to try and influence the administrators and tell them that SA is not ready for a foreign coach? When will we be ready? I think we are ready. All our homegrown coaches have not been great shakes. I think its time to think out of the box and bring in an outsider not tainted by the SA rugby establishment. He should be given full control. 2 year contract with performance clauses.

  I’m beginning to wonder if Matfield should be involved in the Bok setup as a lineout coach / consultant. Who says he won’t try and interfere and try to impose his mark on the new game plan. Perhaps he will have Smit whispering in the shadows: “skop en jag”. Matfield favours an ultra-conservative game plan and I think for that reason he should not be involved in the new coaching setup in any shape or form.

  That’s my opinion. I’m sure I will be called d00s or cnut by the children that try to lord out this blob…sorry meant blog.

• 225.stormersboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:34 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-149: I said exactly what I wanted to say. If I’d wanted to say anything else I would have.

  Tell me I’m wrong about my post.

  He is the only one that ticks the boxes, both experience-wise and politically. And that last point is a not insignificant one.

  You may not care as you say, but you are not choosing the next coach.

• 226.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:36 pm

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-207: Genia is a revelation for the Wallabies.

  Hougaard probably has elements to develop in his game because he gets to start at scrum-half once in a blue moon. Its expecting a bit much of any player to produce a complete performance in a position they hardly ever get the chance to play in at test level.

• 227.Sheriff:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:37 pm

  @once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-222:

  Yeah Allister and Jake really enjoyed ‘playing with words’ during their tenure as Bok coaches.

  If you watch carefully you will see the same ‘mouth movement’ for both of them.

  Allister for me is a type of guy that will avoid all forms of conflict and to do that he will throw these lines week in and week out.

  It may be a case of them playing a game of who could say the most without saying anything.

• 228.THE MAULER:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:40 pm

  Head Coach: Ewan Mckenzie
  Backs: John Mitchel
  Forwards: Plumtree

  Maybe…

• 229.F0k_Protea_Rugby_)team_take_Allister_and_save_WP_rugby:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:42 pm

  make b venter WP coach!!!!!!!

• 230.F0k_Protea_Rugby_)team_take_Allister_and_save_WP_rugby:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:45 pm

  Head Coach: A Coetzee
  Backs: P treu
  Forwards: Jerome Paarwater
  Kicking : E Tobias

  Manager : T Wakefield

• 231.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:48 pm

  @The_Don(The_Don)-213: Ja, they pushed the Butch card so much – it was almost as if keo was his agent.

• 232.Bismarck Burger:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:51 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-226: Hougie is the man, we need to invest now. He will hold ruck and maul fringe defenders guessing much longer than normal 9′s as he poses a threat to break and has the pace to finish

• 233.rocco:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:54 pm

  We may not be ready for it, but what we really need is an experienced foreign coach. If one looks at the Lions/Cats and their dismal history of more than a decade, 2 blinding lights are apparent, the present revival under Mitchell and the 2000/2001season where a Super 12 semi was achieved with Laurie Mains in charge.
  Both of these instances prove the potential existing in SA rugby and the shortcomings of our local coaching. Mains and Mitchell took severely under-performing teams with what the “gurus’ called “no-name players” and converted them to contenders and Springboks. A foreign appointment would be the result of a purely rugby decision, which sadly as we all know cannot happen in this wonderful country we find ourselves in.

• 234.F0k_Protea_Rugby_)team_take_Allister_and_save_WP_rugby:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:56 pm

  What Lions revival? they are leading a vodacom cup standard currie cup … first look and see if they make the final. They were also hond kak in Super rugby!

• 235.ufo:
  12 Oct 2011, 13:59 pm

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-225:

  of the local coaches… i agree with you 100%…

  although i would not be sorry to have him continue at WP… although dobbo may get the job if AC goes… which would also be an interesting thing…

  of the foreign coaches i’d look at john kirwan…

• 236.SexyTime:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:09 pm

  Please go “like” this petition on FACEBOOK. So we can get that doos off his whistle.
  http://www.facebook.com/messages/?action=read&tid=u6%2FQwFsOurctv%2B32mzhsig#!/pages/Petition-To-Stop-Bryce-Lawrence-Ever-Reffing-A-Rugby-Game-Again/286992594653732

• 237.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:12 pm

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-225:

  don’t come here with your white tendencies.

• 238.stormersboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:13 pm

  @ufo(ufo)-235: Ja, I’d be surprised if we looked at a foreign coach, although it would come free of provincial bias, which would be a a very interresting thing….

  You may find players like Adriaan Strauss, and Josh Strauss getting some serious game time in green and gold…

• 239.rocco:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:14 pm

  F0k_Protea_Rugby_)team_take_Allister_and_save_WP_rugby@234

  Agreed, they had a poor Super 15, but one cannot deny the improvements in their play and structures. They started the Tourney in a very promising fashion, only just losing matches they should have won to Bulls and Stormers. It was always going to be difficult for a young team to recover from that. I’m not a Lions fan, but I am excited at the upward swing in their fortunes, and while they may not be 2012 Super 15 contenders, a mid-table finish would be a significant improvement on recent years.

• 240.semi:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:17 pm

  Here is my coaching team:

  head coach alistair coetzee: he’s competent, the right colour and decent with the media. He’s a likeable guy that nobody will have a problem with; certain shortcomings can be accommodated with the right team around him.

  Backline coach Paul Treu: it seems that SARU have noticed potential in this guy. I’ve heard he is an incredible man manager and is intelligent and eager to learn. I’ve heard from reliable sources in SA rugby that there is a desire for him to eventually be springbok coach. Giving him the backline job like Coetzee was in 2004 is the logical next step.

  Forwards Coach Gert Smal: He is experienced, successful and enjoys a long working history with the boks and Coetzee – what more could one ask for?

  Technical Advisor Brendan Venter: this job would allow Venter to strengthen the bok defense and overall game plan, whilst being a bit of a mentor for Treu. This is probably the best place for Venter in the bok squad as he can operate without too much contact with the media and administration and not cause too much trouble.

  I think this combo would be a force to be reckoned with in world rugby.

• 241.stormersboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:21 pm

  @Gunther(gunther)-237: Blerrie agents. They’re everywhere.

• 242.stormersboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:24 pm

  And PS

  RYAN

  Good thing it was a fact that Butch James would start all the important games,

  They must have been saving him for the final.

  A face for radio, a voice for print and a propensity to state opinions/wild speculation as fact.

  Maybe the new administration will throw you a more reliable bone…..

• 243.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:27 pm

  @stormersboy(stormersboy)-225: express yourself stormersboy, it’s a free country

• 244.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:28 pm

  @semi(semi)-217: Brendan Venter: ‘I’m not holier than thou. I’m no better than others’
  Sunday, 29 August 2010

  Honesty is the policy of the Saracens supremo, who has Christian beliefs and pursues the ‘perfect rugby game’ with religious zeal

  By Hugh Godwin

  Sooner or later, Venter admits, he will return home to his medical practice. Does he have an ambition to coach the Springboks? The answer is a surprise. “No, no, no. Uh-uh. It’s too all engulfing of your whole life. Here [at Saracens], you have the best part of coaching: brilliant friends and a brilliant job. The Springboks… it’s too destructive. The moment the stakes become that high, I don’t think it’s worth it.

  When I was young I wanted it more than anything. When you get old your priorities change.” But he’s only 40? “Yeah, but you become more wise. When you’re young you think you can change the world immediately. Now you know that [it] takes a bit of time

• 245.iceman:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:35 pm

  Heyneke Meyer will not repeat what happened last time, once burnt twice shy!

  Why on earth would he give up a good job and career at the Bulls to be stuffed around again. It won’t happen!

  He will never trust SARU again and I can tell you there are not many other good SA coaches who would set themselves up for failure if they cannot select and coach the teams in the manner that they want too.

  We will once again have to accept a political appointment.

  At least Alistair Coetzee has experience now at Super Rugby and was tutored by an excellent coach in Jake White. He will install the same ethics and structures as Jake.

  If anybody get the job I hope it’s him.

• 246.Hondo:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:35 pm

  @Sheriff(Sheriff)-219:
  A ngreat poem
  Just that it wasn’t written after the 1st Test against the B&ILs in 2009 when old Bryce gave us the Lions on a plate?
  Not a one word of remorse or regret for a travesty of Test victory, devoid of certain value when the evidently corrupted Bryce handed the Poms and Irish on a plate.

• 247.stormersboy:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:41 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-243: That’s what they tell me…..

• 248.Helen:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:42 pm

  wazup swamp donkeys?
  I see you are all still waving away the flies around your ar$e$
  There is no way that Saru will appoint a foreigner or a white coach.
  Deal with it.
  Coetzee is our next coach, like it or not

• 249.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:44 pm

  We need a foreign coach like we need Malema for President.

• 250.Helen:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:44 pm

  Heyneke will replace Coetzee at WP

• 251.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm

  @Helen(Helen)-248:

  Coetzee is as useless as tits on a fish.

• 252.Gunther:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:46 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-244:

  oh pulease.

  showing interest in the spirngbok squad is like an al *** for chicks.

  it’s not cool to be seen to want it.

• 253.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:47 pm

  @rossoneri(rossoneri)-159:

  It took a while but you’re finally talking sense.

• 254.Helen:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:49 pm

  Getting a black coach in Divvy was one of the steps toward transformation. A step that can’t be gone back on…
  The next step will be to have a black captain

  Chili will be groomed to take the Boks to 2015, so watch how an old(er) player in the backline who is not sure of his place is made captain (read J D Villiers) and Chilli being the vice cpt to fill his shoes after 2 years.

  That leaves us with another few years of threads about Bismarck being benched

• 255.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:50 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-224:

  Die groot wit baas het gepraat en almal het geluister.

  Simple as that. You get leaders and you get followers. duh Villiers was a follower.

• 256.Helen:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:50 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-251:

  I am not sure the boy fish will agree with you… or baby fish for that matter

• 257.semi:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:52 pm

  @transformation

  Used to just read the comments so not sure how to do the reply thing. I read that article as well which is why I wrote that neither Meyer nor Venter would be coach even though they should be. That’s why I think a guy like Venter would be best suited in the technical adviser role as I explained in my next post. I think he would be up for that role as he could still do locum work and get the best of both worlds.

• 258.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:52 pm

  @Helen(Helen)-254:

  At that stage we’ll be getting thumped by Namibia….if Chilliboy is what we have to look forward to.

• 259.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 14:56 pm

  @Helen(Helen)-254: That really is a step forward isn’t it and that really is transformation right there. Lets keep the best player in his position on the bench because he is the wrong colour. If that happens then SA truly would’ve taken a step backwards selecting an inferior black player because he happens to be the ‘right’ colour. That is just reverse racism.

• 260.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:02 pm

  I’d be very interested to see what Mitchell could do…it might end badly but he perhaps more than any other coach, could revolutionise bok rugby, which is what everyone seems to be looked for. There’ll be no kick-chase and an extreme focus on skills and high-intensity and zero players loyalty – could be explosive.

• 261.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:06 pm

  We should also buy foreign players to fill the Bok team. It all makes sense now.

• 262.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:08 pm

  Mitchell would be the quickest way to try change the Bok mindset and playing style, and he will drive it through like no other, if the players dont play as he wants they will be dropped on the spot. He might not be greatly loved, but he will put winning every test match at top of the agenda, he’s extremely competitive.

  With Mitchell, I have no idea what might happen and if his style would ultimately suit SA rugby, but if you really want an agent for change – he is by far the best maverick coach out there – it would be an utter shock to the system.

• 263.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:10 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-160: While Gatland is a good coach, it is Shaun Edwards, the defence coach, who is the real jewel in the current Welsh coaching team.

  @bananaboy(bananaboy)-174: as well as possibly being the greatest Springbok ever, Matfield is probably the greatest No.5 lock of all time, he is certainly the greatest lineout forward.

• 264.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:10 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-261: Saffas are far too conservative.

  Look at what a foreign coach did for Wales. They are still in the RWC and may even make it to their first ever final. And where are the Boks? Sitting at home now with egg on their faces. That’s how far a ‘homegrown’ coach has got us. F all.

• 265.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:11 pm

  @cab(cab)-260: I agree, it could change the whole setup of south african rugby. Saffa coaches could get a wake up call if they see what effect Kiwi influence does on a national level….

• 266.rocco:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:13 pm

  Right on Cab@260. Professional sport is a dog-eat-dog world. There should be no tolerance for under performance. Only in the good ol’ R of S A, do we attempt or are naïve enough to think we can still succeed with second-rate players and coaches, or anything else for that matter…

• 267.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:14 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-263: Gatland is 100 times better than PdV. His 4 year plan paid off. Wales were getting progressively more competitive every year. Beating England more regularly. Nearly getting the wood over SA many times. Giving the ABs a tough time. And now look where they are now. In the RWC semis while our players will be watching them on tv. PdV did the opposite to a champion team. He’s made them worse and worse.

  I’m sure even Henry would’ve killed for the platform PdV inherited. A champion team which can be taken to the next level of dominance. Instead PdV’s let Smitfield take over and turn us into a bunch of palookas.

  Kak ANC decision-making. Lets appointment someone hopelessly under-qualified for the job because they happen to have the ‘correct’ skin colour. Reverse racism.

• 268.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:17 pm

  @Jeez(Jeez)-265:
  The thing about Mitchell is he is one of those type A personalites, perhaps not the most amiable fellow but he’s a perfection and actually cannot stand to lose, he has had to take it to an extent at the Lions cos of the player resources but he goes ballistic whenever they lose and that pressure to perform filters down to the players – i reckon this fella can throw his toys royally – but by God if you want the Boks to win each and every test matches and be motivated to do so in a high pressure environment – pick Mitchell.

  It would also be quite amusing to see how he reponds to SARU administrators, probably tell them all to get fkd which why they wont pick him, but they should if they want to try something new.

• 269.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:17 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-264:

  Great. So we have a Kiwi coach for the Australian, Welsh and New Zealand teams and we should add a forth for the Boks.

  I know Canterbury is a Kiwi rugby clothing design but aren’t we taking this a little too far.

  Venter or Meyer. Innovative coaches with very impressive credentials. Mitchell has nothing….and he’s…..*shudder* a Kiwi.

• 270.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:18 pm

  @cab(cab)-262: Besides he might have a very positive influence and non bias approach to transformation.

  And I agree that he wont give the public that BS about judging him before the worldcup. I dont think its in their Kiwi mindset to lose any game. The SA public has been very forgiving in that aspect.

  Then again I would really like to hear the reason why Matfield believes that SA is not ready for a foreign coach.

  I stll would like to see that Meyer gets the nod, but if he’s not available its good to see Mitchell as the next best thing. He has worked with SA rugby for some time no and is showing results with a mediocre group of players. If he wasnt in the SA setup he wouldnt even been considered.

  Does anybody know whether he’s be interested in the first place??

• 271.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:20 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-264:

  The wrong homegrown coach. SARU picks on colour..not merit. The Boks were always going to play with one arm and leg tied behind their backs with the affirmative coach.

• 272.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:21 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-267:

  Gatland has a 53% win percentage, one 6N trophy and was part of a losing Lions coaching team. Wales have made it to a WC semi and that’s huge, but it hasn’t all been plain sailing. Regardless, he is contracted to Wales in the longer term and while I imagine he has an All Black coaching offer get-out clause, I doubt he has one for the Springboks. Imo if SA are going to opt for a foreign coach Mitchell or Plumtree are more obvious choices.

• 273.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:22 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-269:
  Mate, they got a minute population of 3million peoples and knock the **** into everyone else regular as clockwork – not a bad idea to get some of these ideas for a season or two – if nothing other than to broaden the ideas in SA rugby.

• 274.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:23 pm

  @rocco(rocco)-266: Bravo my friend. Do you think Henry would’ve picked Smit or FdP?! HELL NO! The ABs know that they need to perform at their best otherwise the next week they will be at home watching the match on tv.

  Smit,the fat overbearing egotistical cnut along with his chum Matfield, decided to turn the Boks into an Old Boys club for his mates like FdP, Habana, Burger, Spies, JdV, Bakkies, Butch, Rossouw. They all knew they didn’t have to be on top of their game because Smit would select them.

  This must never happen again. We need a no-nonsense coach not tained by the incestuous SA rugby establishment. Someone who does not care about being mates with his players. Someone who the player will respect and work for. If we re-build a culture like that you will see the Boks become a farkin good team.

  The way I see it that Meyer is way too conservative as is Coetzee. Venter doesn’t want the job, neither does Mallett. Give it to Mitchell. Give him 2 years and performance clauses. If he doesn’t meet the standards set out in the contract then he must leave. Its very simple.

  Had we got rid of PdV in 2010 we might have stood a chance in the RWC.

• 275.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:24 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-269: And if Venter and Meyer dont apply ? And by the way, they wont.

• 276.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:26 pm

  If Mitchell does not reach the required performance standard, i reckon he will resign on the spot, you wont need SARU for that. For him, it will be about winning EVERY single test.

• 277.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:27 pm

  @cab(cab)-273:

  The Boks will never play like the Kiwis…it’s not our style.

• 278.rocco:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:28 pm

  Then, who’s to say Plumtree or Mitchell would even apply or consider such an offer??

• 279.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:30 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-277:
  never say never, cant hurt to mix some of that Bok forward strength with some attacking flair, remember the 80s backline with the likes of Gerber, Du Plessis, Mordt, etc – as good if not better than anything NZ or Oz produced, in fact the springboks were so-named because of their fleet-footedness…

• 280.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:30 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-272: Nope I never said I wanted Gatland. He would never want to lead the Boks in any case. All I’m was doing was espousing the benefits of a foreign coach. For years Wales have been hond kak. Gatland took a kak Welsh team and transformed them into a very good one. If they make it to the RWC final they will most likely leap frog the Boks in the world rankings. I think its expecting a bit much of a coach to get incredible results with such a kak crop of players that he inherited. He’s brought some really good young talent and transformed them.

  Wales are playing how the Boks should be playing – with forward dominance mixed with brains and a bit of expansive play when they have laid the platform to run the ball. Even the ball skills are far higher than the Boks these days.

  How is it that Habana missed JdV’s offload against Aus by a country mile. Tell me if an AB player would’ve been so poor. Our skill levels are absolutely shite! Its disgraceful. We are laughing stock around the world. Thanks PdV. Thanks Smitfield.

• 281.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:30 pm

  @Jeez(Jeez)-275:

  Gert Smal. I’m sure he’ll be supported by the right structures as and when the candidates come forward.

  What the Boks are lacking is an intelligent rugby analyst. SARU’s meddling is scaring off potential boffins in the South African rugby fraternity.

• 282.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:31 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-277: to be fair they don’t have to play like the Kiwis, they just need to learn how to attack and score tries. It’s not that complicated but various SA coaches seem to have made it so, even Jake White’s master attacking plan was the intercept.

  That said, I don’t see why SA need to hire an overseas coach when teams like the Cheetahs and Griquas have been playing attacking rugby for years under South African coaches (so too the Bulls in ’09 and ’10).

• 283.grant10:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:31 pm

  Mitchell

  Mallet

  B Venter

  the rest are not up to it…..imo.

• 284.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:33 pm

  @cab(cab)-279:

  I’m optimistic for nexyt year…provided the candidate is picked on merit. Hopefully a leaning towards more open rugby will be encouraged…hopefully.

• 285.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:34 pm

  Mitchell

  Mallet

  Deans

• 286.rocco:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:34 pm

  A foreign coach is the bold way forward. A radical mindset change is just what SA rugby needs. A seasoned coach to put in place structures PdV initially thought about, but was railroaded into returning to the tried and tested ossewa mentality..

• 287.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:34 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-277: Well then if we don’t stop playing our neanderthal, archaic brand of rugby and start adapting to the SH style then we will continue to take the wooden spoon in the 3Ns and crash out of RWC and lose to Ireland or France on tour.

  In fact if we don’t do a major overhaul of Bok rugby in the next 4 years we might find ourselves coming 4th in the 4Ns behind the Argies because those okes are catching up fast.

  If we continue to think as conservatively as you and say “its not the SA style” then we will continue to be kak.

  Even Wales has adopted a more SH style of playing and tell me where are they now?! They’re not at home watching the semis on tv.

• 288.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:35 pm

  Give it to Meyer, I agree.

• 289.stew:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:35 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-274: The trick with NZ rugby is that because the players are paid by the NZRFU , they can dictate the style the unions must play and this is a great advantage to the national coach – for Mitchell to teach more attacking rugby will be an up hill battle especially when you see the different playing styles of each SA union …. Got to start at the top and filter down it is the only way.

• 290.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:35 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-281: gert smal is contracted with ireland until 2013…. whats your next guess?

• 291.grant10:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:37 pm

  I firstly wanted Mallet…..

  Then after a few moments of reflection……Mitchell…..Although I would be ecstatic if Mallet did make the head coach….I reckon Mitchell is what we need right now…..

  B Venter would also be a bloody good choice….very astute…..and fark me he wont take kak from anyone….

• 292.stew:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:37 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-287: Wales now have a NZ coach – hats off to the Welsh union for the realisation of change. They are looking awesome for such a young side

• 293.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:37 pm

  gert small actually a damn good forward coach, think ireland a better team than wales.

• 294.grant10:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:38 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-288: no farken ways….skop en jag all over again…..nee dorner nee !!

• 295.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:38 pm

  @cab(cab)-285: i think Deans is contracted until after the Lions series in 2013, a WC semi has virtually secured his job until then. Of the foreign coaches, Mitchell seems an obvious choice as he has test coaching experience.

• 296.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:40 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-294: afternoon grant, hope you’re well, Brendan Venter coaches in the same way, kick and chase.

• 297.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:41 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-282: Fair point. We have dominant forwards that helps to lay the platform for attack but the problem my friend is the mindset and the skill levels.

  The Boks need to be coached to offload in the tackle. If Burger had offloaded in the tackle he might not have been turned over leading to an Aus try. Another classic example is Fourie running straight into traffic hoping to burst through as if he is Nonu or SBW. He could’ve gone left instead and tried to step outside and then offloaded as he was being taken down.

  In order to attack you need players who like attacking. The problem with the Bok mindset is that they think they look like moffies if they pass the ball before being tackled. While the ABs will pass before they go down. So when an AB player sucks in two defenders, by the time he is on the floor, the ball has passed through the hands of another two players and they are getting closer and closer to the tryline.

  We need players not afraid to attack the gainline. Players like Hougaard and Lambie are classic examples. We also need some pacey wingers with good ball skills.

  The general standards of coaching has been really poor with Smitfield. Our ball skills have gone to kak. Always fumbling and knocking on. That is unforgivable at this level!

• 298.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:42 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-295:
  oh right, thought oz might get booted by the ABs on sat and deans might get sack for mackenzie, but Boks have different strengths that he might be able to add more value to. Agree, of the foreign coaches, and in fact for me where SA rugby is at present, Mitchell is the clear favourite, tho not sure if Lions would give him up, done quite remarkable things in an extremely short space of time.

• 299.grant10:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:42 pm

  1 chance Saru

  1 farken chance….

  Dont fark this up gents….

• 300.grant10:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:46 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-296: well at least he sees meritt in Schalk Brits and erenst Joubert…..

  Far better than fat boy and bloody spies…..

  And the bit I have seen from Saracens has been impressive ….and not as sterile as some of the Boks stuff I have been subjected to over last 2 years…

• 301.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:47 pm

  Is anyone aware that Mitchell was stabbed in his house last year? His house in Jo’burg was broken into and he obviously got into a scuffle with them. I think got stabbed in the leg. Had to go to hospital. Bit stupid if you ask me. Still it didn’t put him coaching in SA. Hard b*stard. Bet the burglars got bit of a fright when they found out a 6’3 17 stone bald oke lived there!

• 302.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:48 pm

  Meyer- because he knows that SA rugby needs change, thats why he is making big changes and rebuilding the bulls structures and style of play. BUT he wont apply.

  Mallet- He also has the win every match mentality and will know what went wrong the past 4 years and will know how to transform our rugby. BUT he wont apply for the job either. He has a great track record as a bok coach though…SARU should approach him…

  Venter- wont apply and needs anger management before he can even be considered to be in the same room with the SARU bafoons .

  Rassie- has his strengths, but is not an all round coach. AND probably wont apply.

  AC- too conservative. Will apply.

  Mitchell- same mold as Meyer and Mallet. Will he apply for the job? Who knows…

  Whose the current under 21 coach? Hell after white and PDV he probably has the best change to get the job.

• 303.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:49 pm

  @cab(cab)-298: Yep with f all resources. If he lead the ABs to so many wins I’m sure he can make a positive impact with the Boks.

• 304.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:52 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-301:

  Far as I remember he was sharing a house at the time with some other bloke,they were drunk(or something like that) at the time when robbers came in.Had a scuffle got stabbed in leg,was a flesh wound though.Was at work next day.

• 305.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:56 pm

  got to love the arrogance of vrede….

  as if he knows something about rugby that victor matfield doesn’t?

• 306.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm

  oh…and matfield turned in one of his finest performances ever last saturday

• 307.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-303:

  Yeah and if in his own home country he got fired for acrimonious relationship with administration and sponsors etc he will find it even harder in SA. Different dynamics which wont change with a coach.Reality

  He runs a team with a Draconian type style. That wont flu ANYWHERE noe especially international coaching post.

• 308.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-300: I think it may well have been a case of the grass looking greener, under Venter Sarries played a kicking game with a kicking flyhalf (Jackson/Hougaard/Farrell). The other thing is that when they lost Venter would go on referee rants, appointing him would run the risk of clashing with the IRB after every test. Good coach, but not a good fit for the Springbok job.

• 309.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm

  Why is everyone so quick to accuse Meyer of being obsessed with the kick and chase strategy? it couldnt be futher from the truth!

  As a coach he adapted to the circumstances of the rules and style of play at the time. Which is what every good coach should do. When he introduced the kick and chase style it was successful. Go and look at the stats. When the rules changed a more expansive game plan was needed -he then appointed a Auzzi backline coach (Todd Louden) and the bulls scored the most tries in 2007 and won the S14. Meyer knows how to evolve

  He might have introduced the kick and chase, but he wasnt the guy who continued with it until the end of time. White and PDV is to blame for that and even Ludeke which followed the same outdated formula.

• 310.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:58 pm

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-304:

  Think I remember something about Mitchell being asleep on the couch.

• 311.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:58 pm

  With SARU, Mitchell will never coach the Bok team. No prizes for guessing how they will pick the next candidate based on the ANC’s insistance on transformation….whether there is anyone or not..

• 312.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:59 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-297: Offloading is only half the skill, the other is having support players running into space to take the offload. The problem is that our defence lines are so ingrained into the players psyche that they inhibit that type of support. We need strategies that incorporate attack support with a defensive cover if it breaks down.
  That’s what McKenzie has added to the Reds, who were scoring lots of tries but conceding more.

• 313.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 15:59 pm

  @Jeez(Jeez)-302: Dawie Theron is the SA under-20 coach, based on the rugby the Griquas played under him, he doesn’t look a bad choice at all.

• 314.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:00 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-308:

  Seems you are looking for reasons to knock Venter. It’s high time the Boks had a coach with a pair, no.

• 315.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:03 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-314:
  But that’s so unenglish.

• 316.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:04 pm

  @Great White Shark(Predawn)-314: I think Venter is a top coach, it’s inspirational to listen to him talk about rugby and he has a real passion for the sport that’s evident however what I’m trying to get across is that he wouldn’t mark a departure in terms of style from the last decade of SA coaches and would be no less of a media liability than PDV.

• 317.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:04 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-308: Yup he’s a loose canon.

  This debate about the new coach is encouraging, it just shows how desperate every bok fan is for SARU to get it right this time. Everyone mentioned will probably be 1002402948535935893,000345 times better than Divvy.

  So good times are coming. Schalk for captain. Juan Smith vice

• 318.grant10:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:05 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-308: can only be better than white and he 3 stooges mate….we need a radical overhaul…

• 319.hendrikp:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:06 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-313:

  Griquas are playing that same sort of rugby now…

  I think the very talented SA U20 team losing is a fairer reflection.

  Results should determine the next coach.

• 320.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:06 pm

  @David(David)-312:

  Very very true.

  The offloading skill is redundant when there arent adequate support runners.Big problem in SA. The amount of times NZ wingers come off their wing and fullbacks to give midfielders and halfbacks more options is what makes it offloading so effective.In sa thats almost none existent except on first phase-planned move,Its not an instinct.Due to the fact like you say-stringent roles on defence/offense.

• 321.Great White Shark:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:06 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-316:

  Heck I don’t know to be honest bru. Who is left?

• 322.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:07 pm

  To add to my previous post. Having support runners means that every player has to be aware of a developing situation and anticipate what his team mate will probably do. PdeV spoke about playing what’s in front of you when the results showed that the players were incapable of seeing and acting on what was in front of them. That’s just not acceptable in an international player.

• 323.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:08 pm

  @hendrikp(hendrikp)-319: fair comment

• 324.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:10 pm

  personally, if it is not meyer it most definately must be gert smal.

  test match rugby is his middle name.

• 325.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:10 pm

  @Big Hit(Big Hit)-313: For a change,Id like to see a coach with at least 15 years worth of rugby credentials. Hell look at Graham Henri, he;s almost 80 years old.They should definitely publish each applicants CV to the public. No more coaches with a good track record of a few years. Mallet coached in france for 7 years before coaching in SA. Thats the type of stuff i want to hear. Dawie Theron work to achieve something first.

• 326.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:12 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-324: @<a Gert Smal is contracted until 2013

• 327.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:12 pm

  I’d suggest that the composite of the assistants is as important as the head coach.

  the head coach must have carte blanche to recruit who he deems fit.

  …and not another interviewing process whereby SARU hand the new head coach a couple of blokes whom he thinks are idiots.

• 328.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:13 pm

  @Gunther(gunther)-124:
  

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-223:
  like fox news i just reported it…you decide…

  @Sheriff(Sheriff)-227:
  suddenly pdivy’s divisms take on a whole new shine in a whole new light hehe

  or is it a case of stick and stones can break your bones,
  but words can never hurt you?

• 329.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:14 pm

  @Jeez(Jeez)-326:

  well, then he should walk into the irish changeroom and plant one right on declans nose….and get himself fired.

  mind you, it’s the irish we are talking about, he might end up getting knighted?

• 330.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:15 pm

  AC can’t be coach, he’s incredibly conservative, he makes the bulls look like they’ve French flair. Mallet seems to rate Rassie but I’m not sure of his pedigree, it’s all well and good being technically astute, it’s nothing matter being to apply yourself as a coach to provide solutions to problems. Meyer is technically sound and to be fair went through a difficult period with the bulls and pulled them put of damnation to success, his only real fault is that he introduced the skop en jag game to SA rugby, Meyer has effectively been coaching the boks for 8 years. To his credit, he has announced that the bulls are overhauling their game to be expansive and skills driven to the extent to which he hired pine Pienaar as head coach. Meyer won’t apply for the bok job, my understanding is nor will Rassie, AC will have pole position for the job and trust the boks will regress even further. I think John Mitchell may throw in his resume but will SARU appoint a foreign coach, and a kiwi at that?! Things are not looking rosy for the boks I must say but let’s wait and see.

• 331.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:19 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-330:

  the kick chase worked a treat for the bulls….

• 332.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:19 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-300: Brits is no international player by any stretch of the imagination. Venter calling him the best is precisely why Venter cannot be head coach.

  I’d go with Mitchell if I had a say and non-SA coaches stood a chance, Coetzee as second choice, Meyer as third.

  Only thing to do is sit back and see who actually applies. Speculation is fun.

• 333.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:21 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-330: I hope Meyer and Pienaar succeed with the upskilling. If they do then it will filter through to the Boks. Skop en jag is out-dated – hell even the Boks didn’t play to it against the Aussies.

• 334.Jeez:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:22 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-330: See post 309. Even though he wont apply.

• 335.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:22 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-330:

  and, I could further argue…..what has any other coach in Sa implemented positively?

  too quickly people forget that in 2009 the kiwis couldn’t catch a frikken ball.
  and apparently not in 2010 superrugby either. Hardly logical to lay the blame on a succesful franchise for the national team failure.It’s supposed to be the other way around….

• 336.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:23 pm

  Brigadier 331: they worked a treat for the bulls and the boks in 2009, but at what expense?

• 337.Transformation:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:27 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-335: heineken made robots out of morne & brummer!

• 338.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:27 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-327:
  absolutely.
  the chain of authority is a beautiful thing if applied properly and to is full potential.

  if the guy under you is not performing you sshit all over him.
  if you are not performing your immediate superior sshits all over you.
  if he’s not performing then his superior sshits all over him.

  when there’s a potential factory line of sshiting all the way from the top to the bottom then can be no excuses and no where to hide because when the sshit flies it flies all over.

  saru must be made to submit to some sort of sshit exposure line hierarchy, this is the key to our success.

• 339.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:28 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-335: It’s so successful and correct that the Meyer is departing from the script.
  No,it is time we get back to where we were in the 80s – strong, skilled forwards and backs who were not just good defenders but also highly skilled attackers.

• 340.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:28 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-336:

  meyer was paid to make the bulls succesful…not the boks.

  hardly his fault that the boks have a coach with no clue and no backbone who left it up to the players to sort it out. all the players could then do was stick to what they know had worked for them before….

• 341.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:30 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-340: It didn’t work for the Bulls this year and Meyer has decided to evolve the game plan.

• 342.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:31 pm

  hehehe aahhhh grant…you really are such a drama queen.

• 343.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:33 pm

  Brigadier: I’m not blaming Meyer for the bok woes, I just believe that Jake white and PdV were incompetent and as such merely took from meyer’s handbook. People forget that the bok backline under AC was not flash at all to the extent to Eddie jones had to be brought in to fix the issue. Meyer as I’ve said is probably the most revolutionary of SA coaches, a real thinker of the game, I may disagree with some of his philosophies but that doesn’t take away from the fact that he’s a quality coach. Plumtree can’t be allowed near any national team, AC will kill the idea that the purpose of approaching the tryline with ball in hand is to cross it, venter is just plain crazy saru won’t touch him, Rassie I’m iffy about as he’s the director of rugby at WP, John Mitchell would have to be the number 1 choice, there’s no one else, mallet and Meyer won’t apply.

• 344.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:33 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-337:

  brummer is pish, morne is a legend who holds almost all superrugby records and bok ones for that matter.

  biggest problem with bok rugby has been our 12. have any of our flyhalfs in the last 8 years looked good next to jean devilliers? hardly ever.

  wako jaco looked brialliant in 2004 with div on the wing.
  2005 he comes into 12….waco jaco drops out of sight.
  likewise with pretorius
  likewise with butch, who looked brialiant with steyn at 12 in 2007.
  and likewise with morne these past few weeks who was looking good with steyn outside him

• 345.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:35 pm

  @once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-338:

  

  …couldn’t have put it better myself!

• 346.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:37 pm

  Brigadier: I’ll accept that there’s something very suspicious in how jdv plays but Morne Steyn does not help matters by securing himself in the pocket and showing little variation.

• 347.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:39 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-343:

  I agree, Mitch would be brilliant for the boks….unfortunately, I’m not sure if he would be able to chew the cud with the saru boers enough, so will get stabbed in the back every week.

  Meyer, will not apply…..the only way he’ll take the job is if SARU come hat in hand and beg him to take the job. Which may not be a bad thing because they would then have to concede plenty to him withregards to many of the proffessional rugby making decisions and he would have carte blanche…

• 348.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:40 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-346: JdV annoys me. He can attack and do it very well. He showed it against the Sharks in the S14 and in a line break against the Aussies (with the contentious forward pass). It seems like he consciously goes against his instincts. JdJ is the way forward at 12 if Steyn is unavailable.

• 349.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:46 pm

  Brigadier: we both know that SARU won’t give the keys to the castle on a silver platter to Meyer not in this life time, and heyneke knows, and I think that’s why he’s sticking with the bulls so he can effect his new experiment I do hope it works as it’ll add a dimension to bok rugby. The boks just cannot have AC as coach, the boks will be finished.

• 350.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:51 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-346:

  ….he certainly does not have the speed off the mark that carter has and does not cut attackers in half in the tackle but give him quick frontfoot ball and 9 out of 10 times he’ll end up on the winning team.

  remember, wilkenson also looked like a legend behind the big pack of 2002/3 and the kiwi pack also always secures quick ball. where was cooper this past weekend?

  Personally, I really like the look of this new freestate okey but i want to see him in superrugby first.

• 351.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:53 pm

  Michael: I enjoy jdj, but I think he needs to vary his sidestep more, at times he seems too predictable but he’s very explosive and defenders have to track him constantly.

• 352.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:53 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-348:

  I doubt jdj will get very far in international rugby. he’ll be carried on the bench for a couple seasons before drifting off somewhere.

  he’s as much a one trick pony as olivier ever was.

• 353.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:57 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-294:
  Hahaha

  We’ll just call it, “playing to our traditional strength”.

• 354.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:59 pm

  Brigadier: Morne Steyn doesn’t have an instinctual 10′s game. He seems confused with the ball and can’t decide what to do with it when running, he’s incredibly comfortable in the pocket he only has two decisions to make, up and under or long out of hand kick. When he stands flatter that’s when the nightmare begins, he can’t read defensive alignments, he doesn’t communicate to his 12, his doesn’t attack the line, he doesn’t drift, it’s just a mess.

• 355.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:01 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-354:

  it’s a wonder the bulls win anything when put like that…..

• 356.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:03 pm

  I’d bet that morne will still be the bok flyhalf next season regardless of whom is chosen as coach.

  (and jon smit as captain for a sneaky R5 bet at 150000-1)

• 357.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:04 pm

  Brigadier: you can’t compare meisiekind to jdj, meisiekind has a problem with passing, he can’t pass to the left, no sidestep, he’s very direct so predictable. Do you still remember jdj try against the waratahs in the semifinal at newlands? Meisiekind wanks over that try!

• 358.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:07 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-355: Super Rugby is different to test rugby. Wynand Olivier has at times looked like a superstar for the bulls as has Spies but never for the boks. The All Blacks with all their talent in the backline have looked ordinary without Carter. A modern day flyhalf has to be able to do it all at test level or he will cost you against the better teams.

• 359.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:07 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-357: JdJ rules

  SA needs a flyhalf in the mould of Stransky or Naas – silky runners, can play beautifully instinctive or tight and can put the backline away into space.

• 360.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:11 pm

  Brigadier: superrugby defenses are notoriously porous, Morne I’m sure has a lovely time but when he’s up against the Aussies and the AB’s that’s when you realize his shortcomings, even against wales there’s was nothing to his running game.

• 361.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:13 pm

  Michael: I think Elton jantjies and Lambie are the way to go for SA, if they getting their still ball kicking percentages up there then Steyn won’t stand a chance!

• 362.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:20 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-357: @mpundulu(mpundulu)-357:

  I agree, wynand is predictable….but jdj is by far the worst passer at 12 in sa.when by accident he does pass, 9 out 10 times it’s aimed at the grass.

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-359:

  so long as jean is playing 12, there’s no space or angle outside the 10

• 363.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:21 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-361: I am a fan of Jantjies at flyhalf, Lambie at fullback (I like the way he joins the line and he will get faster with improved conditioning, much like Joubert), F Steyn at 12 and Fourie at 13. JdJ as backup 12 & 13.

• 364.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:21 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-344: agree, good post, surely now Frans Steyn has settled the No.12 debate.

• 365.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:21 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-362: The Stormers produced more tries with JdJ at 12 than with JdV.

• 366.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:23 pm

  Lambie should stick at 15, steyn at 12, steyn morne will be there at 10 for another season until we see some superrugby form from the new batch.

  I like jantjies but until i see something more in superrugby…..I remember last season all to well

• 367.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:23 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-358:
  Quite a few Bulls players who looked like superstars until they were selected for the Boks. You mentioned WO.

  What about Spies, Kirchner, Gary Botha, Dean Greyling, Flip vd Merwe and my all time favourite, Steggies.

  Says a lot about the Bulls that they can make these okes look like world class international players in Super rugby.

• 368.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:23 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-365:

  so what, I think they are both ordinary.

• 369.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:24 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-367:

  yeah, exactly!

  heyneke meyer for bok coach!!

• 370.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:24 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-368: We agree in Steyn at 12 at least

• 371.sondebok:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:25 pm

  SA starting team for the semi aginst Samoa in four years` time:
  1)Beast
  2)Bismark
  3)Coenie
  4)J Kruger
  5)Bekker
  6)Brussow
  7)ALberts
  8)Burger
  9)Hougie
  10)Goosen
  11)Mvovo
  12)F Steyn
  13)Juan de Jong
  14)Mapoe
  15)Lambie

• 372.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:27 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-358:

  but most times you do not have a flyhalf that can do it all at test level. those sort of flyhalfs are once in a generation players.

  outside of that all you can do is pick the best you’ve got

  let’s not forget that the only wins against the kiwis of late have been with morne there. that counts for a lot in SA rugby, or any rugby for that matter.

• 373.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:28 pm

  @sondebok(sondebok)-371:

  fck dude, didn’t read past burger.

  he’ll be like, 40 or something in 4 years.

  that’s about the same age as jon smits kids or something…

• 374.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:28 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-363: Agreed Jantjies at 10 and Lambie at 15, could be spicy. Jacque Fourie, I’m not convinced on that chap from an attack perspective, I think his powers have waned a bit.

• 375.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:30 pm

  @sondebok(sondebok)-371:
  outside of that, it’s not a bad guess….but I’ve got serious issue with 13 and 14.

  jdj is a one trick pony and I really question mapoe’s aptitude. he comes across as a nut job.

• 376.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:31 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-366: Jantjies will bring something good for the super season!

• 377.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:33 pm

  I see no point at all at keeping Steyn at flyhalf. The time to make the changes is right now. We may go through a tough year in 2012 blooding the youngsters but it needs to be done and not delayed. I think decisions need to be made about where Lambie and Hougard play once and for all and lets not set them back like they did with Frans Steyn and to some extent Pienaar by playing them constantly in different positions. I have said it numerous times and will say it again they should also give Pierre Spies a season (for the bulls at first) on the wing. He is not an international class number 8 but he is a great athlete and may become a top class winger. I would also replace J. Fourie he will not be around for another World Cup so we need to find his replacement now.

• 378.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:35 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-375: Mapoe is the exact type player that the boks need, he’s true ball player, he can play wing, centre, and full back, has oodles of talent and does not give an inch.

• 379.sondebok:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:36 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-375: I`m not so sure Mossie has another 4 years in him, and outside of JdJ there seems to be a paucity of quality 13`s a. I like the look of Sadie from an attacking point of view, but unless he bulks up a bit I don`t think he`ll cut it as a test 13. Maybe stick him on the wing then in place of BA Mapoe. However, I`m sure the Cheetahs or the Boland region will produce another great 13 that will no doubt be snapped up by the bulls in the next four years.

• 380.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:40 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-377: Good points, Morne must go that is critical. I think bring in Jantjies, and steyn on the bench for the first year, Lambie at 15, steyn at 12, jdj at 13, hougaard at 9, movovo and mapoe as fliers. exciting backline, now let’s hope there’s a coach to pull them together.

• 381.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:44 pm

  Fourie is young enough to make the next WC. Anyways, what is the sense of looking to the next WC when the aim to get the Boks winning again consistently to create a culture into which future players can be eased.

  Fourie is a fantastic organiser of the backline and will excel in a side playing attacking, structured rugby.

• 382.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:44 pm

  I would like to see the bok backline workrate increase, support runners, wings picking gaps in general play, and a flyhalf who can control the rhythm of an incisive running game.

• 383.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:44 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-378:

  I thought mapoe was awesome at the cheetahs but what has gone on since then has left me a little cold.

  people need to understand that a new bok coach will not just go ahead and select 22 new players, the team will evolve over a couple of seasons. Only a whack job will select 22 new players for his first tests. I’d imagine we see as many as 8 in the first 30 man squad, which is already a lot in my opinion. The problem we have is that snor hardly evolved at all. think back to 2004 when marius joubert was a legend at ellis park…by late 2005 he was gone.

  I also still rate hougaard as a better winger than a 9, and actually, quite possibly the best wing in the country.

  9 is definately a position that is wide open. I have a hunch that ruan pienaar has unfinished business.

• 384.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:44 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-367: Its a different game Super rugby compared to test rugby. Franchises have limited player selection so all the teams have areas of weakness. The Bulls at their best had the greatest lock pairing probably ever a very tough front row and good loose forwards. This proved too much for most other franchises especially in the rarified Loftus atmosphere and once they were on a roll everyone looked good. But now and then a team stood up to their forwards and then the bulls looked very very ordinary. The boks have been playing Heyneke Meyer rugby since Jake White with mixed results. I think the time has come for some kiwi influence in our coaching.

• 385.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:46 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-381: Perhaps, he’ll strive but there needs to be far competition for positions in the boks, they need to shed this culture of guaranteeing certain players their spots.

• 386.bryce_in_oz:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:46 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-378:

  Mapoe has no kicking game at all and poor positional play… there is no way he can play 15 in fact he’s being playing better at 13 than wing exactly because of that…

  He’s yet to make the step-up to S15 level in any position…

• 387.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:50 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-382:

  exactly, our backs need to adjust their mindset and become as desparate on attack as they often are on defence.

  It has always puzzled me how a team like the cheetahs always plays a very attractive brand of rugby regardless of whom they have availible or calibre of player.

  personally,I believe it is a mindset supported by good forward play and quick ruck ball

• 388.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:53 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-383: Mapoe was being paid in the region of R7,500 per month at the Cheetahs, he had no choice but to run, this is a professional sport you go where you are paid most. It’s precisely the reason the cheetahs lose a lot players.

  You are right the coach won’t select 22 new players but he’ll want to phase out players over the first leading to the second season. I have no doubt that Pierre Spies will be gone, Morne Steyn will play a role but he’ll get his marching orders shortly thereafter if Jantjies or Lambie’s kicking is up there. Habana and JPP gone, JDV will join them. Ruan Pienaar is not allowed in a Bok jersey anymore. I’m not sure how Jacque Fourie will fair but let’s see.

• 389.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:53 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-385: Agreed. We musn’t go to the Straeuli extreme though.
  And part of that problem is SA fans are inconsistently consistent.

• 390.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:55 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-380:
  That back three of yours will be exposed on defence, I fear.

  Why not JPP on one wing? Left or right.

  I alway felt that he would do much better on the left (he plays there for the Sharks, no?) but with Habana cemented in on the left wing, JPP had to move over.

• 391.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:56 pm

  @bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-386: I disagree, from what I’ve seen his kicking game is adequate and his positional play is not lacking but my point was that he has ball awareness, a quality sorely needed by the boks.

• 392.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:58 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-387: It is a mindset, no doubt, this is instilled through a culture at a franchise, the cheetahs breath it.

• 393.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:00 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-392: Indeed. WP and NTvl had it in the 80s too.

• 394.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:01 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-389: I wouldn’t advocate a straeuli route at all, I think that there are those players in the bok who’ve not performed in years, they need to be cut. Boks have to bring in youngers and start building experience and confidence in them and not just bring them off the bench for some cameos.

• 395.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:05 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-387:
  “personally,I believe it is a mindset supported by good forward play and quick ruck ball”

  You are right Brig. It is a mindset. Why is it that when we play minnows our boys seem to be able to play an expansive game? I believe they run onto the field with the plan to run the ball but when we play stronger opposition, we believe that the only way to beat them, is with our “traditional strength” ie playing with our forwards.

  Yes, I know it is easier to run with the ball against Fiji, Nam and the likes because we are going to dominate upfront, but the AB’s seem to try and run with the ball whether their pack dominate or not.

  80% of the times it ends in a victory for them.

• 396.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:06 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-390: Mvovo looked disorganized on defence on the away leg of the trinations, this is where a defensive coach comes into play and effective inside communicators will be pivotal to ensuring that he’s covering the wing adequately. I believe that can be sorted out.

  JPP for me does not have the work rate I believe a modern winger should have in the mould of Guildford, Ioane, Kahui, SBW, O’Connor, and Corey Jane. I think Mapoe could add that element as he always looks to take advantage of space.

• 397.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:06 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-393: AC has killed it out of WP.

• 398.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:10 pm

  @Jeez(Jeez)-317: No please not Schalk as captain. Its time for Schalk to hang his boots up. He is a legend but his headless chicken style of play is obsolete. He is a brilliant defender but terrible at attacking. All he does is run into traffic and get turned over. Sunday’s game was a classic example. Runs from his tryline head first into a ton of Aussie defenders and then gets turned over leading to a try. Why didn’t he pass? He hardly ever passes. Schalk is part of the old cancer along with Spies, Habana and JdV. I would be tempted to say so is Jacque Fourie who also love crashball running into traffic but I think he could still play a part. Habs must only be brought back if he can regain form at Super rugby level.

  The only old player I would like to see back is Juan Smith. Perhaps Bakkies because he adds so much mongrel but if he is also a liability when it comes to discipline.

  Apart from that, we should only be using the current crop of players who are performing. Lambie, Bismarck, Brussow, Alberts, Beast, JdJ, Frans Steyn, Hougaard. Once we found a better replacement for Jannie he also needs to go.

• 399.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:10 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-396: Jp is an example of what is wrong with our coaching. When he first burst on the scene he was a great attacking talent who could do the unexpected and win and sometimes lose you a match on his own. His defence was somewhat suspect though. Now Jp is very good defensively but all that attacking ability he had has been coached out of him.

• 400.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:11 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-396: What about Sithole? He’s got good pace from what I saw last weekend.

• 401.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:14 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-399: Quite right, he is very much a defensive wing and lies in wait.

• 402.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:14 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-383: Pienaar is absolute kak. Time for that guy to give up. He’s had too many chances. As has Spies. I want to see a Kaino -like no.8 not a winger masquerading as an 8th man. Either Spies plays wing or farks off.

• 403.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:15 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-400: He comes across as tasty, I’d like to see him in superrugby but he’s a definite talent.

• 404.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:17 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-402: Spies has to leave, I’m sure there are European clubs who’d pick him up.

• 405.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:31 pm

  @Samba Bok(JayDaFiveOh)-398:
  I think the blame there should be put on the shoulders of the player/s who made the call to play the ball from the top of the line out. In other words, the jumper (VM) gives (throws) the ball to the SH (FdP) while he is still supported in the air which then deemed the line out over.

  Playing a top ball so close to your goal line means that the opposition players are free to close down the first receiver behind the gain line and that was exactly what happened.

  What should have happened, was that VM should’ve come down with the ball and the Boks should’ve drive a bit to suck in the Aus forwards. Thereby creating a bit of space for MS to kick out.

  Now, the question is, who made that call? VM, FdP or JS?

  Another case of senior/veteran players acting like novices.

• 406.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:37 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-405:
  I agree. Schalk’s been getting a lot of stick from some people here, but what he did was perfectly standard given the position. He was trying to gain a few metres away from touch and the tryline for a ruck to give his flyhalf room and angle to clear.

• 407.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:05 pm

  @David(David)-406:
  Exactly david.

  In my view we should’ve set up a maul and drove instead of setting up a ruck. A maul that went forward 3/4 metres, would’ve created the room for a clearance by MS.

  So, at the end of it all, someone made the wrong call. The question is, who?

• 408.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:11 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-407:
  Yeah, Schalk didn’t have much option when he got the ball, but to try and create a 2nd phase platform.

• 409.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:14 pm

  Mapoe was playing quite well in early 2010,first at 13 then 14 where he tore Bulls backs a new one early in competition.Then he got injured,then all the controversy.Was rushed back early this year,saw his running mechanics were poor,running gait very stiff and change of direction/step not explosive…wasnt fully fit/rehab.

  In CC he has been outstanding,looks fully fit and very very eager.High work rate,good under high ball,physicality bar none.Played 13/14 with aplomb.

  This boy is still only 22/23. Fully fit,HE IS THE BUSINESS.

  One thing i like about him is that he doesnt stand back.Knows he is good and can back it up. When he is fit,he is a problem for any defense.Only downside is that he’s a bit injury prone due to his abrasive style of play.

  Boy is good though.pretty D A M N good.

• 410.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:21 pm

  @David(David)-408:

  It was a set move.. same move that been drummed into them by Rassie no doubt throughout their pre game MO

  Give the ball to Burger at first receiver and let him charge the advantage line and set up 2nd phase ruck ball..

  That went on for the entire 80 minutes .. the culminating result of it was Burgers impressive stats of 133 mts carried… One try against… one try fluffed on the opposition try line… and not a glimmer of a try for us.. until Bismark charged Coopers 22 drop out for FdP to falter and fluff it on the line.. or JdV tore through the midfield to send Lambie away on a forward pass hope and a prayer..

  Feeble stupid idea for burger to carry it up in front of our posts.. go to ground.. get isolated as happens frequently.. get turned over.. and try time Aussie…

  Most stupid Rassie maneuver anyone could possibly find… and the entire Boks and WP strategy is built around Burger being the carry ball go to man.. most stupid pathetic strategy I have EVER seen going absolutely NOWHERE YET !!

• 411.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:23 pm

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-409:
  @nama1(nama1)-407:
  The one thing this years CC has shown us, is that the Eastern Cape players must be brought into the S15 as soon as possible. When one looks at how WP, Lions and FS have been forced to bring their own youngsters into their sides and how they’ve performed, leaving the major unions to sign and bury the EC youngsters in academies is criminal.

• 412.mshiniwami:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:29 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-410:

  Burger is not as powerful in the tackle and not strong on his feet.often launches himself but goes down to quick.Easy meat. He is very good as a link though,his passing has improved greatly. Vermuelen usually carts it up with Burger secondary ball carrier which works better as secondary/channel 2 doesnt have the biggest and destructive tacklers where Burger can take it up. But channel 1 is for likes of Alberts.

• 413.Chris4Lions:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:30 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-410: I guess it was also Schalk’s fault that Pocock kicked the ball from an offside position and his fault that Mr Ref missed it. Youre an idiot!!

• 414.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:33 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-410: And okes on here want Rassie and Coetzee in the new coaching setup? Good grief!

• 415.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:33 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-410:
  You’ve got a point there. I hadn’t looked at it in that context.

• 416.Tuna:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:34 pm

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-409: The Lions back line looked impressive with Mapoe at centre.

• 417.Tuna:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:36 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-404: Or he can focus on the Mr Olympia.

• 418.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:38 pm

  @Chris4Lions(Chris4Lions)-413:
  He didn’t say it was Schalks fault, but Rassies tactical fault. The point is, that if it was a planned move, it was the wrong situation to attempt it. As Nama1 asks, who made the call?
  Besides, why resort to personal abusive directed at an opinion.

• 419.Chris4Lions:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:39 pm

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-412:
  I dont agree with you regarding Schalks power. My opinion: It is better to go down faster when you got 2 or more players tackling you because the player will run the risk of being held up and concede turnover ball, and secondly you can get a faster 2nd or 3rd fase ball.

  I would have had Schalk running in the 3 rd face ball with Alberts or one of the tight five taking 1st and 2nd face balls to get over the advantage line. Poor planning from coaches

• 420.Chris4Lions:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:44 pm

  @David(David)-418:
  “Feeble stupid idea for burger to carry it up in front of our posts.. go to ground.. get isolated as happens frequently.. get turned over.. and try time Aussie…”

  I agree on the coaches game plan mistakes, but above quoted line makes it looks as if it was Schalks fault. Apologies for getting personal

• 421.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:48 pm

  @Chris4Lions(Chris4Lions)-413:

  You the f’ng idiot you dumb clown.. Burger had NO business going to ground with NO protection by any support.. isolated in front of his own posts and hoping to set up a ruck when it was time to get the hell outa there…

  Ball had to get to fly half ASAP and booted far as possible upfield and preferably into touch….

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-412: and that is correct Burger is the absolute WRONG ball carry go to man.. when EVER has Burger actually breached the advantage line and set up some kind of attack ball momentum.. never is the answer.. he carries it up time after time… shuffling this way up the field then that way.. and when confronted in the tackle ball situation he’s down on the ground and often its a turnover to the opposition.. hardly ever do we gain real penetration through midfield or round loose ball fringes when Burger carries the ball up.. yet he is Rassie and Coetsee’s CHIEF ball carry go to man..

  You are correct his tackle position on meeting opposition tackler is downright dangerous to effecting ongoing continuity beyond the breakdown.. players like Vermeulen and Alberts and Bismark FAR more effective as front foot ball battering rams…

  In Boks strategy last couple games this WC Burger literally played at fly half.. first receiver 8 times out of 10.. he carried FAR more running meters than ANY back on the park.. and yet NOT a glimmer of a try was coming from ANY of those nonentity forays into no mans land… Jacque Fourie NEVER saw the ball. he was reduced to a bloody Burger inspector.. WTF Burger is doing as the first 5/8 ths in Boks backline heaven or Rassie only knows

  and then we wonder why the fck this Bok team has NO back line penetration whatsof’ng ever..!!!

• 422.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:53 pm

  @Chris4Lions(Chris4Lions)-420:
  Yeah, Shamps does get carried away, but the main point is, where was his support once the decision was made? If it was a called move then its execution was atrocious.

• 423.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:56 pm

  Frans Louw is far more effective as both a ball carrier and a ground ball player to Burger.. so is Heinrich Brussow.. so is Willem Alberts or Duanne Vermeulen.. or this new kid Marcel Coetsee at Sharks.. or Juan Smith .. or perhaps even Ashley Johnson or Zach Strauss at Lions…

  Burgers only real contribution is the massive amount of tackles he puts out in an 80 minute game.. Burger’s main forte and strength of his game is outright consistency in charging down the oppisition ball carrier and effecting cover tackles.. His ball carry skills are limited and his ground ball work is weak…

  People see all the frenetic mayhem he puts out on a rugby field and they are fooled into believing it is all effective ball carrying or work in the trenches when it is more a frenzy of attrition in open play.. but hardly a concerted line momentum or break through the advantage line setting up a try scoring opportunity is EVER the result of Burgers consistent and endless forays into mid field no mans land as first receiver and then becoming null and void once met in the tackle…

• 424.Chris4Lions:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:57 pm

  @David(David)-422:
  Whoever made the call should be blamed, but they have done that move the whole year. The support players should have been better as the Ausies were waiting.

• 425.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 19:59 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-423:
  That’s why I don’t believe he’s the answer at 7.

• 426.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:03 pm

  @Chris4Lions(Chris4Lions)-420:

  who’s f’ng fault was it Bismark Du Plessis ?? or Bryan Habana ??

  It was the ONLY try scored in the encounter and the fundamental reason we LOST the game and got booted out the competition.. that and the other time he tried getting over the advantage line on Aussie try line and ONCE more it was stolen out his hands by Aussie defender on the ground..

  2 times Burger lost the ball on the ground in CRITICAL game winning or losing situations.. and BOTH times it was stolen off him and turned over by opposition.. who’s f’ng fault WAS it.. Heinrich Brussow’s or Frans Louws ?? Because rest assured neither of those would have had the ball turned over in such critical situation or position…

• 427.Jeraldjay:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:03 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-421: so you can make sense when you want to.

• 428.BoksareImpotentonAttack:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:09 pm

  David Pocock

  “We’re going to have to step up at the breakdown again and Craig Joubert’s a great ref, so we’re expecting him to be good there.”

• 429.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:09 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-407: most probably they didn’t because the Aussies were collapsing every maul. You will have noticed that we didn’t get one single rolling maul going from the line outs the whole game… they had a pretty nifty technique of falling over and/or tackling around the ankles.

• 430.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:09 pm

  @Chris4Lions(Chris4Lions)-424:

  was the dumbest move i ever seen.. directly resulted in a try.. the only try of the match.. to Aussie.. and it was a set move.. set up likely by Rassie and co as some kind of pre programmed ploy.. get the ball to Burger who will carry it up and set 2nd phase ball… either FdP called it , (same as it was FdP that called Pierre Spies to go blind when an entire back line was waiting on the open side in attack situation.. Spies goes blind solo on his ace and gets trundled into touch.. turnover ball again)…or else it was pre planned move by coaches that Burger is the go to man at 1st receiver EVERY g’dam ball whether on defense or attack.. and our back line disintegrates in a bunch of useless lemmings following this ineffective inefficient ball carrier who is playing at first receiver every single play..

  Stupid is hardly the f’ng word…

• 431.BoksareImpotentonAttack:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:13 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-423:

  Frans Louw is not Bok material.
  We lost the game when Brussow went off.
  Burger i have always said was the most overrated Bok in history.
  Seems like you and me are the only 2 SA supporters who were disgusted at the Bok loss. Most of the letters in the paper are about how proud the supporters are. The masses are a bunch of idiots.

• 432.BoksareImpotentonAttack:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:14 pm

  Its MEYERS time if there was any justice in South Africa.
  Sick to death of these Quota coaches
  and Allister is a Quota coach.
  Rassi is cr@p

• 433.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:15 pm

  Should have been Alberts carrying the ball up, he was immense at it, by far the best balcarrier in the S15, he is nothing less than a SA version of Willy O and has exactly the same massive tackles, its only he and bismarck who can actually bust the gain line and get go-forward – Spies doesnt have the heart for the channel 1 collision and Burger no longer has the explosiveness in his body.

• 434.BoksareImpotentonAttack:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:17 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-430:

  Maybe you should be the next Bok coach. At least you speak sense.

• 435.BoksareImpotentonAttack:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:19 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-429:

  Nothing personal but the Bok supporters are a bunch of ****-ing cry babies.
  Its always the ******-g refs fault every time we lose if its by less than 20 points

• 436.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:27 pm

  @BoksareImpotentonAttack(Boksarenumber1)-435: no offence taken.

  Besides, no-one around here takes you seriously anyway (I think it’s all the rude words and moaning that you employ).

  Thanks for commenting anyway.

• 437.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:28 pm

  It’s easy to identify a few errors and claim that’s where we lost the game. The reality is that we didn’t have the creativity to exploit all the possession we enjoyed.

• 438.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:29 pm

  @David(David)-437: spot on.

• 439.Jeraldjay:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:31 pm

  @BoksareImpotentonAttack(Boksarenumber1)-432:Coetzee is not my ideal candidate but he is NOT a quota coach.

• 440.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:34 pm

  @Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-439: agreed.

  2 consecutive S14/5 finals… you have to be decent enough to do that.

  But, like you, I don’t see him as the ideal candidate.

  Finishing 2nd is not good enough for the Boks.

  2.06 tries per game…

  defence, defence, defence

  Matfield says he is the best replacement, tells me he is going to be a buddy buddy nice guy coach

  SARU needs to be wise.

• 441.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:37 pm

  @BoksareImpotentonAttack(Boksarenumber1)-431:

  Frans Louw had a good game, go check it again.. he put in plenty tackles and linked well with other Bok players and did some damage in slowing Aussie ball and getting stuck in the trenches, because Spies wan’t anywhere near there. He is no Brussow on the ground, he is no David Pocock, but his contribution in the general loose was very effective.. try check the game again you will see.. Boks had the better part of every attack situation.. they were done on the ground and on the last line of defense where their strategy of trying to breach Aussie defense with Burger’s and Roussow’s noneffective carries proved null and void every time … FdP was too slow setting up quick attack ball, and then it would invariably go to either Burger or Roussow, or sometimes Spies or Matfield or Bismark later in the game… but the line of attack was stereotypical and easy to defend against and too slow.. all that possession and territory and totally ineffective penetration through the gain line..

  Cab is correct, Bismark, Alberts are the only two in the pack that could do that and Louw would do better at it than Burger, and neither were on the field till much later..

  JdV was the only back that was getting across the gain line.. but the backs hardly saw the ball like Fourie .. being starved out the game… it was being carried up by Burger 8 times out of every 10…

• 442.Jeraldjay:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:45 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-440: coetzee will be another 5 out of 11 against the AB’s. Sorry but that’s not good enough going forward.

• 443.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:52 pm

  We missed Juan Smith BIG TIME

  Only player that would clear out the ruck good and proper and only player that drives over the the gain line and holds onto the ball

  Simple as

• 444.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:53 pm

  Two very types of pack possession rugby.

  1. argentianian-style posession which is slow, ponderous and muscling, and static and which they score very few tries off of, or

  2. AB-style possession where they rip over the gainline and clean-out rucks at a frightenining rate.

  The optimam balance of these two was the Bok pack of 2009 – it was like a veritable blitzkrieg and the oppo simply cannot reset its defensive alignment quick enough to counter that sort of high-intensity phase possession – its what mitchell is playing at the lions even tho he dont have gems like bismarck and alberts.

• 445.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:55 pm

  Actually there were 3 go to men in the forwards of that team on Sunday

  Bismark, Alberts and Gurthro Steenkamp.. those were the 3 players who should have been the vanguard of the Boks attack momentum through the front foot onslaught from first kick off.. and Boks would still be in the competition.. I have hardly any doubts about it whatsoever.. and Beast should have been on bench..

  CJ, Butch, Aplon were not used…

  Hougaard should have played at 9, Hougaard at 11 off bench when Habana got busted already in first half.. and Alberts and Bismark on instead of Spies and Smit and Boks would be competing vs AB’s this weekend..

  Absolutely guaranteed..

• 446.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:56 pm

  Our coaches are just not good enough
  We need an Academy for coaches

  AC is OK, bu there in lies the problem, he is just OK

  Give me a Kiwi coach any day of the week

• 447.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:57 pm

  Smit and the older blokes who player looser could not be in a Mitchell-type pack – cos he wants the fitness and frightening levels of conditioning needed to pull of that high-intensity gameplan. Instead kickchase was favoured by the Bok cos it requires less effort than keeping possession and attacking properly with it including all the close support play, clean-outs and go-forward drives.

• 448.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:58 pm

  If we took the 3 points on offer we would have still been in NZ

• 449.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:58 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-445:
  exactly right Guthro and Beast are the other two, but Gurthro is more direct these days.

• 450.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 20:59 pm

  Cab

  Everyone employs the kick chase.It is how they execute it

• 451.vindicated:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:00 pm

  836 caps and an early exit

• 452.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:01 pm

  Forget about Smit

  He had a good game bar his decisions

• 453.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:01 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-443: Elstadt, Coetsee, they are available but not the ready articles yet…

  But Alberts and Bismark are.. and they were compromised by the likes of Spies and Smit.. so go figure.. why we are out the WC…

  Simple deduction.. if No Juan Smith you HAVE to play your next clean out and bust through options… Bismark and Alberts .. not have them sitting pretty on bench waiting for the sky to open…and swallow you whole .. which is almost effectively what happened…

  Burger is wrong ball carry or even clean out man.. he is not as strong or powerful as either Smith, Alberts or Bismark.. or even Louw or Vermeulen

  Burger and Spies in back row is actually a weak combination.. no muscle there whatsoever and when you still carrying Smit up front also.. then we asking for a hiding … which is unfortunately what the doctor ordered…

• 454.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:02 pm

  451. Fark off

• 455.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:04 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-450:
  not sure i agree, and there’s alot more to be said for variation, but there was a period the Boks went thru in the 3N of 2010 and 2011 where that is all we saw, and the oppo just said tank u very much, on sat this gameplan was changed and as a result it was one of the best performances we;ve seen from teh Boks since they confiscated possession and took the australian backline right out of the game, unfortunately it was slow argie-style possession because we did not pick the type of explosive go-forward players that could give us the type of explostive go-foward momentum where the aussies would not have simply been able to reorganise and make tacke after tackle, must have been a world record of tackles made.

• 456.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:04 pm

  Skop

  There I agree we need them

  Elstad will be there sooner rather than later

  Danie

• 457.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:05 pm

  Danie, Vic and Smit are rubbish at clearing rucks

• 458.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:07 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-452:

  it was ONE more LOSS to add to his mammoth tally of consecutive losses the past two years.. how good a game is it when your captain leads you to another LOSS.. you wanna make excuses for the compromise.. because that is EXACTLY what it has been the past 2 years solid.. a stupid imbecile compromise that has resulted in Boks sliding downhill since 2009 when Smit played at 3 BEFORE he took Bismark’s position off him…

  If Smit could not cut it at prop he should have got the FCK out the way.. and Boks would still be in the WC.. Guaranteed.. the Cancerous Compromise is what fckd up Boks hopes and NOTHING else.. whatsoever…

• 459.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:07 pm

  Cab

  The oppo started to pick players who were really good under the high ball

  ABs dropped Sivi and Rocket

• 460.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:10 pm

  Skop

  Too late after PDiv played Smit into the ground at prop

• 461.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:11 pm

  Your Captain?

  Mine is Juan Smith for now

• 462.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:12 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-459:
  thats true, but Jane, Dagg, OConnor, Beale – Love nothing better than counter-attacking.

• 463.vindicated:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:12 pm

  Actually when you go back and remember the good times, the Boks, since Jake White days were only good when refs ignored forward passes, offside play (on defense) and got the intercept – think about it bru, u know its true

• 464.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:14 pm

  Cab

  They all good catch a ball and our tactical kicking was rubbish

  Refs started pinging Boks in 2010, why?

• 465.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:15 pm

  463

  Fark off

• 466.Jeraldjay:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:16 pm

  Surely Juan Smith would have been ready by the time we played Namibia.
  His loss was a moerse loss. The perfect link between forwards and the backs and great at the back of the lineout.

  Klaar wat dit soe is.

• 467.vindicated:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:16 pm

  and losing to Aussie is nothing to hang your head in shame about – they are the 2nd best side in the world….. and …….they remain the only team in contention to win their 3rd World Cup …..and ….. not for the first time

• 468.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:17 pm

  ABs will win this RWC

  Good on them, should help to get bums on seats again, I hope

• 469.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:18 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-461: Juan Smith (as brilliant a player as he is) is 30 now and injury prone. I do not think he is a good candidate for captain.

• 470.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:18 pm

  No team who lost in the pool games deserve the WWE

• 471.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:19 pm

  469

  For now, who else?

• 472.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:21 pm

  Maybe we give it to Elstad, the captaincy

• 473.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:21 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-460:

  it was one compromise after another… SOMEWHERE they had to find a place for the WC winning aura.. it was like a blood pact between two star turned lovers who could not cut each other adrift and so this pact actually is what sunk the entire team as a result…

  Bismark knows it.. Matfield knows it.. even Divvy and Smit know it.. but they are sweeping it under the carpet because its too painful a reality to check it out square in the face.. Smit’s desire and ambition to be bigger than the teams progression is what sunk this team.. Try pretend any which way it was not the case.. that is EXACTLY what crippled Boks chances in every aspect.. because by including Smit you lose not only Bismarks aggression and go forward zeal but you diminish an entirely different combination of momentum and principles where EVERYONE is pulling together for ONE cause and not 14 pulling to carry ONE passenger.. or 2 if you include Pierre Spies.. (and 3 if you wanna check FdP as the third.. or Habana bordering on No.4…)

  But Smit was THE critical straw that Broke Boks backs.. that is an unequivocal reality that none who are blinded by passionate hero worship will be able to recognize or see was the crux of why Boks were not pumping at 100% efficiency.. for 2 whole years and culminating in a WC campaign that was fraught with one too many passengers who by their inclusion negated the potency of the combination of the whole without them…

• 474.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:24 pm

  Skop

  Nothing wrong with the core bar Smit, Spies and Habana and maybe JDV and Matfield

• 475.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:26 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-471: Maybe Bismarck. He is the only forward of the current bunch that is left who if he avoids injury looks certain to be around for the next world cup.

• 476.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:26 pm

  Fact is it is easy in the cheap seats

  I would say that it all boiled down to coaches

• 477.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:29 pm

  475

  Bissy!?
  Nowhere have I read or heard of his leadership capabilities

  We need to maybe try a few as captain

• 478.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:32 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-474:

  That IS the core .. no more core left after them..

  Bakkies is kaput.. FdP kaput.. Roussow half kaput.. Matfield nearly kaput.. JdV .. hanging gingerly on kaput… Butch klaar gelag kaput.. Smit long time dead and buried kaput.. Burger… half of what he was kaput… Habana.. oor en uit kaput.. JPP, Fourie, Steyn, only ones left and not yet kaput…

• 479.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:38 pm

  Must find a new young captain who can carry the team another 4 – 6 years.. not an interim measure..

  From current players I would have made Smith or JdV captain before Smit or Matfield…

  But now their time too is over.. now you must invest in next generation captain.. and if its not Chiliboy then you have to find somebody who perhaps is not even a Bok yet and earmark him for the big job..

  I’ll tell you who has good captaincy credibility is Frans Louw.. got every making of a very good captain and not a shabby player either.. almost like a Francoise Pienaar.. or Gary Teichmann … not flash.. not out of this world knock your socks off super duper rugby talent but steady and solid as a rock with a very good equanimity and cool collected head who can see and visualize the big picture and has both the gift of the gab and some down to earth solid sincere common sense..

  Frans Louw could have been a real gem of a Bok captain if they were able to see who got what quality and where it fits best…

• 480.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:39 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-473: Sorry but the hole in your argument is that it was not our forwards that lost us the World Cup. You cannot against one of the top 3 nations on the planet in your wildest dreams expect to get more go forward possession than we got against the Aussies with Smit on the field. Bismarck should have started but him not starting was not the reason we lost. Smit still had a lot to offer in the set pieces where the Aussie scrum was put under huge pressure with him on the field and in the lineouts where he was highly effective. What we did with all that possession is what cost us the match simple as that.
  You do have a point that it was unfair on a player like Bismarck to be kept from starting when he is clearly the best number 2 in the country but there is also an argument for Smit and his captaincy. What I do not buy is that this which was so many peoples focus is what lost us the World Cup. For that you have to look at 9 and 10. FDP is a shadow of the player he once was and Steyn did everything that could be expected of a player with his limitations but being the best goal kicker in the world and little else was never going to be good enough.

• 481.vindicated:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:50 pm

  Jurie Roux, chief executive officer of SARU “I know that the players and management did everything in their power to continue South Africa’s run of success at the Rugby World Cup.” bullshyte, liar, you, more than anyone else, should shoulder responsibility for this debacle and do the right thing – farkoff idiot

• 482.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:51 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-477: I agree we need to look at a few options. But Bismarck is worth looking at. Teichmann was a great captain who never said a lot but led by example Bismarck could maybe be similar.

• 483.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:00 pm

  There is only one coach who’s maintained the type of winning record that competes with the ABs, and that’s Mallet. Sure, he made mistakes that he’s admitted, so did Henry. With his experience since then, I reckon he’s the best contender if SARU is interested and he wants it.

• 484.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:01 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-480:

  Nope by including Smit as much of a middle of the road compromise that it was effectively nullified our absolute all out front foot aggression through second phase where rugby is largely won or lost these days.. i.e. the breakdown.. by starting Bismark and Alberts you make NO bones about the fact that we are going all out to negate and take opposition to the cleaners without any compromise of playing our safe middle of the road options first…

  Smit did not have a bad game.. and FdP has deteriorated substantially which is one of the factors I warned about incessantly throughout the past two years where Boks have slid down the ratings as top notch contenders.. check my unholy comments about it here on this blog ad infinitum where I have been warning that FdP will undo the go forward of this team.. same as Spies and Smit.. to one or other degree..

  But the BIG issues are three fold..

  1. Smit undermines and compromises the best participants in the Bok team combining together as a collective and powerful whole to annihilate and diminish any possible hold the opposition can gain in the game from first kick off…

  2. The mode or strategy of game plan coordinates are flawed and faulty… playing Burger as go to 1st receiver and thinking we will punish our way through the gain line with a slow and ineffective ball carrying flank who whittles away any degree of momentum or speed through the back line is the crux of why our back line does simply not function…. and

  3. FdP is a nullifying ineffective link who has become both too slow at retreading 2nd phase ball to quick in your face attack ..

  So it is not Morne or JdV or Fourie or wings who are stuffing up the back line potential.. it is firstly FdP slowing everything down to a canter to compensate for his lack of energetic infiltration .. or else

  2. it is Burger carrying almost every back line ball into a dead end cul de sack scenario where all the attack momentum has to start all over again once it has broken down through his ineffective lack of power or drive through the gain line… and

  3. By starting Smit.. and Spies … you negate 2 of your most effective weapons, namely Bismark and Alberts.. and by starting FdP you leave your most influential game breaking potential out on a limb where he may become effective too late in proceedings.. namely Hougaard..

  Hougaard should have started at 9…
  Bismark at 2
  Alberts at 7 or 8

  Beast on bench (another compromise as a result of starting Smit and having to cover 3 front row positions with 2 players in a 4/3 split)…

  Aplon on for Habana if and when Habana either bombs or gets broken down

  and Boks would have still been in the competition… and I’d go far as to say we would have won it again…

• 485.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:08 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-479: Lambie.

  Michaelhouse Head Boy.

• 486.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:11 pm

  Puke Watson as captain

  Bust a gut… break open the egg.. and who knows you might even get a well cooked omelette out of it…

  you be surprised what could come out of a left field brave daft call such as that…

  But I doubt anyone got the balls to make such a call..

  Unless who knows.. Nick Mallet or Alan Solomons might even do such a daft unsavory unswerving thing…

  Wouldn’t even be surprised if Jake White would go to the lengths of trying to make amends for his fckup last time around and try heal the wounds that were slashed open as a result of his insular protectionism and vindictive ostracism..

• 487.Robzim:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:12 pm

  it’s more or less an open secret that Schalk Burger will be the new captain- and AC the coach with rassie and Nienaber very much involved.

• 488.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:13 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-484:
  Now that’s an extremely astute analysis of the game., and I agree. Anyway, I’m off to bed. Cheers.

• 489.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:16 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-486: sorry, Watson is too controversial (read: divisive) and not international grade.

• 490.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:17 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-485:

  Perhaps .. maybe.. who knows.. but a little too young and raw to chuck him in the absolute deep end at this early stage of his development..

  Also Full back can be a place where a captain can function but these days I recon its a little too far from the action to make effective telling calls and on the spot off the cuff deductions…

• 491.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:18 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-487:

  Oh well another four f’ng years of pulling my hair out and swearing at the TV at the top of my lungs..

  think I better start watching skittle sticks instead…

  @David(David)-488: nag ou grote

• 492.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:18 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-487: and with that combo we better accept 65% results…

  

• 493.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:21 pm

  Oh! You poor, sad, worthless, foolish fools why do you get it so wrong almost always? Why do you not understand why you hurtle from one small national disaster to the next time after time with the next one about to be set in motion anytime, even tommorrow?

  It is not merely the players or coach or a DoR or Saru per se, although each in increasing order is implicated in the contribution to an impending failure. The cause of the problem right at the root is the national psyche and thus attitude. That huge factor is divided and not merely in half but in many fragments each gravitating in its own direction.

  Let the logic and rationale of a medical scientist, at the highest level, help you to understand once and for always by means of an analogy first followed by sport specifics.

  If your house or mansion has a flawed or unsound foundation you do not set about repairing the small visible cracks in the walls or the known leaks in the roof and such like first. Before you set about those problems you have to correct the flawed foundation beyond any question of any unsoundness. Everything else in order follows after that corrective measure.

  If then the national attitude is so fragmented into so many pieces by a lack of faith in the existence of a true non-racial democratic foundation what and how can a coach or a DoR or Saru wholesomely construct on that flawed national structure?

  The confidences of all the people of the W. and E. Cape and Indian-heritaged people of Natal and all other people elsewhere who think and feel similarly need to be regained to the point that the sporting venues in those areas become fortresses for the national teams.

  When you look at a stunning, intricately complex painting of a Picasso or a Van Gogh or a Monet on its solid foundation how many realise that that complexity is made up of the sum of all the small strokes of the brush in many colours and many directions? Such is the complexity and oneness of a people.

  Fragmentation breeds problems and disasters in any aspect of life.

• 494.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:22 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-487:

  Do you still question, so snidely and smugly, the scientific analysis in any aspect of life even history?

• 495.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:23 pm

  Yawn.

  Does anyone reads these convoluted, meaningless, BORING posts by the Estranged Turtle?

• 496.Robzim:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:23 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-491:

  Lol, ja well, i think the Aussies/protea 20 overs series starts on Friday.
  Apparently Australia has a new 18 year old quickie who already bowls at 150 km’s an hour.
  I am also not the greatest fan of Burger but he has a lot of support- is well connected and he is very popular all over south africa amongs the fans.

  Who do you reckon will contest the RWC final now that the minows have been eliminated?

• 497.Robzim:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:25 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-492:

  Who do you suggest should get the jobs?

• 498.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:25 pm

  Tacitus had it right earlier today in terms of what we as Bok fans should expect.

  Nothing less than 80% win ratio.

  Win every home game against all opposition.
  Beat every NH team and Arg home and away.

• 499.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:26 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-487:

  Where then will that leave your Stormers?

  When I left Cape the first time there was no Stormers.

  Only after my 2nd trip back home did I learn of their construction.

• 500.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:26 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-497: For head coach I’d be happy with any of Brendan Venter, Mallet or Mitchell.

• 501.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:30 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-495:

  I would be offended if you did.

  So you still believe your lie tha ” Bantu ” is a language? Which one specifically do you refer to or perhaps speak?

• 502.Robzim:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:31 pm

  @ET.(ET.)-499:

  No idea, maybe they should try a foreigner.
  I would not mind if they can get Brendan Venter and Gert Smal , but they are possibly too “heavyweight” for super 15 rugby.

• 503.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:35 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-484: I agree with a lot that you are saying. Burger had a big game but he is not a premier ball carrier. He did carry for a good deal of yards against the Aussies but I was under the impression that they were willing to give him some yards at times but could stop him dead when need be. I am not convinced though that Alberts has 80 minutes in him and may be more effective when the opposition gets tired. Hougard most definitely should have started. He is the boks most effective attacking player by far. No team however has won a world cup without a world class flyhalf and even NZ with their multi talented backline is battling without Carter. While it is debatable if over a career one can call Butch James world class brain explosions on defense early in his career and injuries had an affect BUT he had the potential in him to be world class and for 4 games in the 2007 world cup he was. Morne just asks no questions of the defense which makes marking players like JDV far easier for the opposing defense and his distribution is not going to trouble a top team. Many say James is finished but he was not given a fair chance to prove this one way or another.

• 504.Robzim:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:36 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-500:

  Not bad, specially Venter and Mallett.

  Nic has indicated that he is going to take a six month break from rugby to contemplate his future- he also said he reckons Heinecke meyer or Rassie should be good – so, who knows.
  Pity that Brendon is not popular within SARFU- he certainly has one of the best rugby minds in SA.

• 505.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:40 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-500:

  In Xhosa it is a word, the plural of ‘umntu’ (meaning a person) and thus means people.

  Whites, and particularly the apartheid perpetrators, used it specifically in a derogatory sense as part of their dehumanising efforts.

  So ” Bantu People ” a favourite of Verwoerd, Vorster, Botha etc. stupidly means people people which is just absolute nonsense.

  So carry on your stupid act of being the LIAR.

• 506.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:42 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-496:

  Wales and Aussie

  with Wales taking the ultimate crown..

  will be a nice little let down for everyone who reckons they so sh’t hot top of the pops rugger nations on the planet…

  Won’t mind much either if France take it either.. Wales or France they both deserve it.. they both been contributing to this Russian Roulette merry go round just as much as the others with fokol to show for it yet…

  Thats if Paddy ‘O Bullfrog will not have anything otherwise to do about it … which I sincerely doubt.. after all like Louis Luyt in 1995 he’s got vested interests in the ultimate outcome..

• 507.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:45 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-496:

  Starts tomorrow 6pm., a D/N affair at Newlands

• 508.Nils:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:49 pm

  Wales-NZ final, NZ to win. Aus 3rd, France 4th.

  And 4 year old jokes about 7th/8th place playoff for some teams.

• 509.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:03 pm

  @Estranged Turtle.(Estranged Turtle.)-505: Educate yourself.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_peoples

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_languages

  I’m not surprised your knowledge is lacking.

• 510.Black Panther:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:09 pm

  @vindicated(vindicated)-463:

  exactly

  referees and linesmen controlled the offside line strictly at this RWC and, of no coincidence the Boks had the highest number of ‘missed tackles’ from Pool-play of all the major teams and failed to score from 1 intercept. After years of over-relying on cheating the offside line on defense, the Boks needed to actually ‘create’ tries when the pressure was on – cue the QterF and not one Try scored despite an over-abundance of possession and territory.

  Oddly enough, I thought JdV had a really strong game vs Aus where he made 2-3 outstanding breaks, 1 of which nearly resulted in a Try but correctly-disallowed for the forward pass (maybe he wasnt used to making them ?). It was a shock as much as anything considering he and Habana have played offside for years, been encouraged to do so, and suddenly they were in strange territory when actually having to create instead of poach.

• 511.Hurricane:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:09 pm

  @Nils(Nils)-508:
  lol

• 512.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:14 pm

  Lay persons pretending to be lawyers may use Wiki which is based on anything and nothing and is thus their version, right or wrong. They accept even distorted history.

  Do you use Wiki if and when you present facts to your court seniors?

  Academics on the other hand use references found in journal articles and those are refereed by a group of the most senior peers on the specific topic, moron(and still a bigger LIAR now).

• 513.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:16 pm

  @Hurricane(Hurricane)-511:

  How was Corporal Cruden’s performance under the guidance of General Weepu?

  Cool Hand Cruden was as cool as a cucumber and the established players in the team demonstrated that in numbers when he made that positive play late in the game.

• 514.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:22 pm

  Indo-European
  Romance
  Dravidian
  Turkic
  Sino-Tibetan
  Bantu

  All examples of language families.

  Nothing sinister.

  You can pack your chip and dipping sauce away for now.

  Numb-nuts.

• 515.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:24 pm

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-510: another troll comment.

  So predictable, I’m surprised you still get reactions.

• 516.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:29 pm

  Damn.

  Mitchell says no to Bok job
  2011-10-12 22:25

  Cape Town – Lions coach John Mitchell says he won’t apply for the position of new Springbok coach if Peter de Villiers gets axed.

  Mitchell was a popular vote earlier this week on Sport24′s poll on who should be the next Bok coach.

  Sport24′s chief writer, Rob Houwing, wrote on Wednesday that “the South African public is surprisingly open to the idea of an overseas-reared coach taking over the Springbok reins”, after the New Zealander received 18% out of more than 2500 votes – second only to Blue Bulls guru, Heyneke Meyer.

  But according to the Beeld newspaper, Mitchell is not keen on the Springbok job.

  “No, I won’t apply,” said Mitchell, who rather wants to finish his job with the Lions. He signed a three-year contract with the Golden Lions Rugby Union (GLRU) last year and has on many occasions stated his desire to see out his contract with the Johannesburg-based union.

• 517.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:34 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-514:

  Still just questionable information from non-credited Wiki with no standing in even your courts.

  Besides you do KNOW the use that your apartheid NP reps. like Verwoerd, Vorster, Botha and more had for that word and for what dehumanising purpose.

  Still leaves you a dishonest, deceitful LIAR who cannot find any meaningful references in support of your claim in any journal of repute.

• 518.Black Panther:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:35 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-515:

  the only thing ‘predictable’ is your blanket ‘troll’ comment instead of rebutting any content. And we all know the reason why.

  Absolutely sickening this attacking and blaming Bryce for the Bok loss vs Aus. This after 4 years of mocking Kiwis for the aftermath from Cardiff’07. What are the similarities ?

  Did the AB Capt did point any fingers at Barnes ? NO, unlike Smit, within hours of defeat.

  And did the Aussies score a Try from a fwd-pass (like France at Cardiff) ? No.

  Did the Boks go an entire 2ndH without ONE penalty awarded to them, like ABs at Cardiff ? No. In fact, they were awarded 2 penalties in kickable positions, both converted, including the 2nd penalty which put SA in from 9-8 having trailed 3-8 at HT.

  Did the Boks score atleast ONE try from their wealth of possession & territory, like the ABs did in Cardiff ? No.

  Did the Boks score a 2ndH DG despite not having their flyhalf injured (DC) – let alone the reserve-flyhalf (N.Evans) injured as well ? No. They ended the match with 3 x fit flyhalfs (M.Steyn, B.James, P.Lambie). soooooo NO EXCUSES……?

  again, NO, and they just dont stop.

  Now SA referees are in on it too – remember A.Watson who did his very best to keep Aus in the RWC 2003 Final with terrible rulings at the scrum ?

  Line up the apologists, one and all….

  “New Zealand rugby referee Bryce Lawrence continues to cop widespread criticism for his performance in the South Africa-Australia World Cup quarterfinal last Sunday.

  South African referees manager and former test referee Andre Watson is the latest to put the boot in, saying he was surprised by the Lawrence’s performance in Australia’s 11-9 win in Wellington. He also said that the South African referees association will aim to take action against Lawrence.

  ”His opening game [at the World Cup] was outstanding, I had no problem with his appointment, but (in the quarterfinal) he allowed a free-for-all, giving (David) Pocock a field day,” Watson told a Cape Town radio station. ”It’s not what you would expect from a referee of his calibre. He didn’t referee the breakdown the way he was supposed to. He just didn’t step in.”

  The breakdown was a mess at stages during the match, and both sides expressed dissatisfaction post-match. Naturally South Africa reacted most angrily, with retiring captain John Smit saying he was delighted he would no longer have to be refereed by the New Zealander.

  Rugby fans in the Republic have united against Lawrence, and a Facebook page titled ‘Petition To Stop Bryce Lawrence Ever Reffing A Rugby Game Again’ has attracted an incredible 64,827 ‘likes’, as of 9am today.

  There are also a handful of other anti-Lawrence pages on the social networking site. South Africans accused Lawrence of getting several key decisions wrong, and allowing Wallabies openside Pocock to illegally spoil the Springboks ball and flow in a match they lost despite an overwhelming advantage in possession and territory. Watson believes the Kiwi whistleblower, who is now to South African fans what Englishman Wayne Barnes was to New Zealand supporters four year ago after the All Blacks’ quarterfinal exit against France, will be punished in some way.

  ”He will be punished, but that’s up to the IRB (International Rugby Board). I do not believe we will see him in any Rugby World Cup again,” Watson said. ”It’s done and dusted now, but we (South African referees association) will be taking action. We want to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

  sickening.

• 519.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:43 pm

  @ET.(ET.)-517: sorry, I know nothing of the NP and what those names you mention may have said. I came through the education system in the new SA when the NNP were a fringe party.

  I’m relaxed about this commonly accepted word as I’m sure most sensible people are. It obviously agitates that chip of yours, but that’s your problem to deal with, not mine.

  Now, we don’t normally engage each other (you’re a boring old racist ****), let’s keep it that should we?

  Ta ta Turtle Head.

• 520.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:44 pm

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-518: sorry, everyone knows not to feed a troll.

  And a troll is what you are.

  No bananas for you.

• 521.poppa69:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:44 pm

  BP

  come now, it didn’t go FOR SA, so of course it was bad.
  four years of being told to “suck it up” has come full circle.

  Mitchell has seen the light and realizes the thankless task being the SA coach is. Still, coming 7th or 8th as “defending” (excuse the pun) champions highlights just how easy they had it in 2007

  

• 522.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:45 pm

  whoa!

  F A R T is a banned word?

  

• 523.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:46 pm

  oh dear, the trolls are operating in tandem. I’m out.

  PS Poops, sorry to hear about the sad news.

• 524.carol:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:48 pm

  @poppa69(poppa69)-521:
  Hi Poppa

  Just wanted to say I am sorry to hear about your loss recently.

  Tough times!

  See you around

• 525.poppa69:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:50 pm

  Thanks Spooner.
  nah not trolling, know how it feels to be done like that in a 1/4. wondered what Mitchells reasons are for not wanting the job.? perhaps his time as AB coach has tainted his view of coaching a national side ?

• 526.poppa69:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:52 pm

  Thanks Carol. appreciate it.

• 527.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:56 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-519:

  The old stale refrain of the discredited prejudiced. You just cannot find a racist from Natal even if you paid for one.

  Just a big eFFin LIAR.

  You cannot be a S. African then. Maybe just a “Bantu” Out of Africa, that’s what you are. So England is your national team as you are a British citizen travelling on a British passport.

• 528.Black Panther:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:56 pm

  @poppa69(poppa69)-525:

  sorry to hear about your Mum fella.

• 529.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:57 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-522:

  Yes, banned because you are the NaiveFart.

• 530.Hurricane:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:58 pm

  @ET.(ET.)-513:
  Hey ET
  I was relieved that Cruden came on and played like he had been in the team all along.
  Such an important job #10, especially if your not prepared.
  He was about to go on holiday,lol.
  I think he did really well

• 531.Black Panther:
  12 Oct 2011, 23:58 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-520:

  spineless whenever faced with the FACTS

  as we’ve come to expect

  ~ ~ ~ burrrrrrrrp ~ ~ ~

• 532.Nils:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:01 am

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-518: This post is a sickening example of trolling. How dare you. Boks either win or are cheated of victory. Blacks either lose or get away with cheating. If facts contradict the popular myth, screw the facts.

  And don’t forget many poached 2 year old Samoan, Tongan, Fijian rugby stars. In those islands professional career starts early.

• 533.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:04 am

  @poppa69(poppa69)-525:

  “Done like what” ?!

  they couldnt score a try

  they were awarded kickable penalties, incl 1 to go in front. SA even conceded LESS penalties (4) than Aus (6).

  no fwd-pass tries from the opposition.

  apparently Bok team, management, fans and refs are justified because Bryce allowed a ‘free-for-all’ at the breakdown. Funny, that word ‘all’, isnt it.

  SA just cant accept losing under any circumstances. Theres always an excuse and it always includes the ref.

  Bring Back Gert !

• 534.poppa69:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:11 am

  Thanks BP. alters ones views somewhat.

• 535.ET.:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:22 am

  @Hurricane(Hurricane)-530:

  Good, so 10 seems to be solved then unless more injury.
  If that happens Nils is expecting GH to call him into the squad to cover for Donald.

• 536.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:32 am

  @Nils(Nils)-532:

  its great. The longer Boks, Management, referees and coaches go on blaming the ref, the longer they’ll be stuck in the mire. And, therefore, the easier it becomes for the opposition.

  Interestingly enough, we also read the same ‘ref is a cheat’ comments before during and after inter-provincial (S15 & Currie Cup) matches so its endemic in the whole culture to blame outwardly rather than face any shortcomings internally. Even Keos sole-gentleman, Puma, often finds himself blaming the ref on the odd occasion.

  A.Watson accuses B.Lawrence of “allowing a free-for-all”

  hmmmmmmmm

  “ALL”

  *gulp*

  ~ ~ ~ ~ burrrrrrrrrrrrrrp ~ ~ ~ ~

• 537.Nils:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:39 am

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-536: After 09 3N all year mocking then bang with the same score. After 07WC 4 years of mocking and then out the same way. An irony.

• 538.malcolm:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:42 am

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-536: We do have a tendency to blame the refs but this is not unique to South Africans as New Zealanders have a history of blaming refs (2007) or other ‘factors’ (1995) so it appears none of us like to look inward.

• 539.Nils:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:45 am

  @malcolm(malcolm)-538: It’s hard to look inwards while vomiting, all is going outwards. That’s about 95.

  About 2007, true, we complained and blamed. Funny thing is that oke wasconsidered in SA as almost the most fair referee.

  Until he reffed Saffas themselves.

• 540.Nils:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:50 am

  Good night folks, take care.

• 541.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:50 am

  @Nils(Nils)-537:

  irony, beautiful gorgeous irony.

• 542.malcolm:
  13 Oct 2011, 00:57 am

  @Nils(Nils)-539: Barnes sucked but he never cost the All Blacks the game they did that all by themselves. The same is true for the boks against Australia. In 1995 I have no doubt that members of the All Blacks got sick but that does not make all the conspiracy theories true just like the ‘lets get the yarpies’ referee’s text does not really mean all the NZ and Australian refs were out to get the South African teams. It just leaves a little suspicion.

• 543.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 01:30 am

  @malcolm(malcolm)-542:

  The Boks were awarded TWO kickable penalties in the 2ndH. The ABs were not awarded ONE pen in the 2ndH, let alone kickable ones.

  France scored directly from a fwd-pass (2, actually). The Aus try was legit.

  Sorry, but wheres the ‘suspicion’ ?

  Yes, the AB tactics could easily have been better, no Kiwi denies that. But Barnes had CONSIDERABLY more influence on the result in Cardiff than lawrence ever did in Wellington.

• 544.Hurricane:
  13 Oct 2011, 01:47 am

  @malcolm(malcolm)-538:
  Dont bring 1995 into this.
  There was a case of food poisoning of some sort. Of course you probably dont believe it.
  2007 was a case where we all saw what happened, so yeah complaints galore.
  But on this very site we were told by probably 95% of the posters on here to get on with it, you were not good enough to win it , stop blaming the ref, hes really a good ref….blah blah blah. Now what a turn around.

• 545.malcolm:
  13 Oct 2011, 02:10 am

  @Hurricane(Hurricane)-544: If you read what i wrote you will see I aknowledge that the All Blacks did have some form of food poisoning. What I dispute is that it was some sort of planned action. Food poisoning can happen and it is not the oppositions fault. In 2007 New Zealand allowed France to turn the momentum of the game and although the forward pass did lead to a try the way things were going and how the All Blacks were panicking France would have probably have scored again had that ‘try’ been disallowed. France were an average side in 2007 and lost twice to Argentina and to England and that is why I think New Zealand did not get too much sympathy by many neutral observers. I do not think the ref was the reason the boks lost. Our inability to turn domination into points cost us the game. However he was very poor.

• 546.Hurricane:
  13 Oct 2011, 02:28 am

  @malcolm(malcolm)-545:
  True.
  The food poisoning was not done to any of the players on purpose.
  Momentum turned after France were stuck on there line for 5 mins through the 2nd half was that NZ came out with no points at all. They held on against the odds and got a favourable call that got them a try. Btu the forward pass try really was not the game winner of such, it was the finishing of the ABs that blew the game, as is the same with this OZ vs Bok match. You cant win the game when plan A is failing and you dont use plan B.
  NZ were not getting any free kick or penalties in the 2nd half. There fore drop kicks were in order. All this can be put into the Boks game last week. But the Boks had better drop kick specialists than NZ ever has had. Morne blew it. He runs the backline,he calls the shots with FDP when play is running. Smit not going for the 3 points on offer as well wasnt to bright,there is alot that can put into the loss to Ozzie. It wasnt the ref.

• 547.bokgat1:
  13 Oct 2011, 06:39 am

  @ET.(ET.)-505: Rainbow man, you still here. Why haven’t you returned the stolen computer yet?

• 548.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 07:38 am

  @Hurricane(Hurricane)-546:

  20 out of the matchday-22

  some coincidence.

• 549.husky:
  13 Oct 2011, 07:48 am

  Haw, haw, haw, blek panties and poep69 at it again sniffing each others skid marks. Lawrence just happens to be NZ king pin ref’s little offspring. He’s had howlers against the BiL, Sharks vs Crusaders and now Oz vs SA. He’s hopeless but, in the SA spirit of nepotism, we understand.

  As with every other referee or umpire controlled game there is always incompetence, nepotism, stupidity and cheating (Brycie covers all 3 quite neatly). Hence technology. Rugby, like soccer, but more so, is stuck in the Paddy o’ Brien inspired dark ages beacuse it suits him.

• 550.grant10:
  13 Oct 2011, 07:49 am

  @poppa69(poppa69)-525: sorry for the loss Poppa…

• 551.Great White Shark:
  13 Oct 2011, 07:51 am

  @husky(husky)-549:

  No man…it’s Bleat Panties.

• 552.grant10:
  13 Oct 2011, 07:51 am

  @grant10(grant10)-550: meant your loss….condolences my man.

• 553.NZMaori:
  13 Oct 2011, 07:58 am

  Blame the ref?

  What about your poor selections? What about your out dated game plan? What about the injury to the form 12 at the cup?

  WHAT ABOUT YOUR IDIOT OF A COACH!

  Lawrence didnt lose you the game, you had the world cup lost the minute Hoskins got into bed with PDV. Aussie have had your number in the PDV era, this loss as hard as it is to take is the culmination of years of misguided influence on the mighty boks.

  Now you must rebuild and come back stronger. Blaming the ref wont solve anything….you are winging worse than us kiwi’s did in 07

• 554.Sasuke:
  13 Oct 2011, 08:28 am

  @NZMaori(NZMaori)-553: Cant be….you kiwis are still moaning today about that forward pass. The thing is you had 20 minutes to win the game after the forward pass. What did the Famed All Blacks do? They shelfed their expansive approach and went for pick and drives! lol You also didnt have the ref against you on that day….it was a fair contest except for the forward pass. We had 10 minutes to try and win the game against 16 players. Our selections were spot on and our gameplan had the Aussies on the back foot whole day but it is impossible to play against the ref….he is all powerful!

• 555.Atreides:
  13 Oct 2011, 09:00 am

  @Hurricane(Hurricane)-546: Hehe dude I put a disparaging comment on Facebook about this stupid Bryce Lawrence facebook campaignt…***** teeth, I’ve been copping it from all sides for 3 days!!

  I don;t know when saffas turned into a bunch of whiny girly sour-grapes girls….ffas we need to man up and take it on the chin, this is getting beyond embarrassing

  I don’t for a second think Lawrence is a competent ref, but hell, there are far more important problems in SA rugby and denial isn’t gonna get us anywhere. Our percentage rugby isn’t working. Scoring 7 tries against Namibia just papered over the cracks and for some weird reason made people think our attacking ability was OK.

  How you guys feeling about Saturday? I think the aussies had a much tougher game, I think you might find they run out of puff after 60 minutes….due to my extended australian family I’ll be supporting them, but my head says AB’s have to be favourites….I have a feeling they might put a big score over them

• 556.mshiniwami:
  13 Oct 2011, 09:23 am

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-533:

  The similarities dont have to be EXACTLY the same as 07′ so really no 2 games are the same.

  The breakdown wasnt policed properly,period.

  The try by Oz might not have been from a forward pass BUT the ball spilled out to to illegal entry points by Pocock & co with Pocock kicking ball out of an already formed ruck.Illegal.

  Boks should have had more kickable penalties awarded especial;ly 2 in the second half on OZ 22m and 5m to tryline.

  But hey if you’re trying to establish a case that you were robbed more than us in 07′,then fine you were but neither does it make the travesty that occurred on weekend any legitimate neither.

  Boks will regroup. Next year is another year of rugby.

• 557.NZMaori:
  13 Oct 2011, 09:52 am

  @Sasuke(Sasuke)-554: Bullsh*t, what about Foure DP knocking it on with the line in sight after the ball poped out the back of the Oz scrum, what about Lambie missing a drop goal that would have put you 4 infront, WHAT ABOUT DANE ROUSOW HOOKING THE LEG OF THE LOCK IN THE AIR AND TIPPING HIM OVER???? What about the forward pass you threw when the line was open? Blame your kak players for all their mistakes. Those were just a sample of many more chances your kakboks had. oh no it had nothing to do with them it was all the refs fault. Did you actually WATCH THE GAME??? Do you remember the amount of chances you blew? The ill disipline you showed that lost you the game? The droped balls, the missed drop kicks? Problem with you saffas is you dont watch the game. None of you are students of the game, your analysis of the game has been all on the ref. Scapegoat for all your own short comings. Springboks have only themselves to blame, your pathetic hooker was keeping out the best hooker in the world, Bismark would have made a huge difference. Heinrik went off int he first half HUGE LOSS to the team, thats like losing McCaw and Pocock combined….I could go on with more reasons why you lost, but all you are concerned about is the ref…. I rest my case

• 558.Skeppie:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:30 am

  @NZMaori(NZMaori)-553: Its a tough pill to swallow as the reffing performance really was poor but you are 100% spot on. We are not the first country to be unlucky and we won’t be the last, no point in moaning we just need to get over it and look forward. There was a lot wrong with our world cup campaign that was in our hands totally, those are the things we need to focus on and fix.

• 559.Skeppie:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:38 am

  @NZMaori(NZMaori)-557: Dont forget NZ was up in arms after 2007 and that was just one call…a clear forward pass which robbed NZ but only one call…our gripe was that the whole breakdown was reffed badly all game, that killed our momentum constantly not just due to one isolated call. That said NZ were robbed in 07 and we were robbed in 2011….that’s sport and we have to learn to suck it up and take it on the chin.

• 560.Sasuke:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:55 am

  @NZMaori(NZMaori)-557: The thing is Pocock did not illegally slow down and steal our ball we would have had more oppurtunities to run at unset, mismatched defences but because he illegally slowed down and stole our ball they had time to set their defence….Boks were at a huge disadvantage because of this. This explains why we had all that possesion and territory and couldnt do anything with it because our ball was being spoiled at the breakdown by the aussies and Mr Bryce is solely responsible for that. So I rest my case.

  @Skeppie(Skeppie)-559: They had 20 minutes to try and win the game. The mighty all bleaks who think they are the best and can score from anywhere and can score tries at will…..uhm where were those tries in the last 20 mins against France in 2007?? Pathetic display by NZ in 2007. The Boks atleast played a good game and can keep the heads held up high.

• 561.slavedriver:
  14 Oct 2011, 08:05 am

  We should also be looking at who is running the refs.He should be sacked from his role because reffing has gone backwards under him.It is not about the best refs anymore but if you bow before paddy you will get somewhere.Steve walsh was down and out but i guarantee you paddy had a big say in him getting into the ozzie reffing to resurrect hos career.H e was one of the worst refs and now he is back.Dont think Bryce was not under a directive how to ref this game,all the refs are.Piss paddy off and you are gone,lick his arse,be the worst ref and you will ref the big games and tournaments.Just hope Joubert doesnt go the same way and refs within the rules.But then again let the ozzies win and we will see how these kiwis moan.

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