561 Comments

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• 451.vindicated:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:00 pm

  836 caps and an early exit

• 452.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:01 pm

  Forget about Smit

  He had a good game bar his decisions

• 453.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:01 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-443: Elstadt, Coetsee, they are available but not the ready articles yet…

  But Alberts and Bismark are.. and they were compromised by the likes of Spies and Smit.. so go figure.. why we are out the WC…

  Simple deduction.. if No Juan Smith you HAVE to play your next clean out and bust through options… Bismark and Alberts .. not have them sitting pretty on bench waiting for the sky to open…and swallow you whole .. which is almost effectively what happened…

  Burger is wrong ball carry or even clean out man.. he is not as strong or powerful as either Smith, Alberts or Bismark.. or even Louw or Vermeulen

  Burger and Spies in back row is actually a weak combination.. no muscle there whatsoever and when you still carrying Smit up front also.. then we asking for a hiding … which is unfortunately what the doctor ordered…

• 454.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:02 pm

  451. Fark off

• 455.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:04 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-450:
  not sure i agree, and there’s alot more to be said for variation, but there was a period the Boks went thru in the 3N of 2010 and 2011 where that is all we saw, and the oppo just said tank u very much, on sat this gameplan was changed and as a result it was one of the best performances we;ve seen from teh Boks since they confiscated possession and took the australian backline right out of the game, unfortunately it was slow argie-style possession because we did not pick the type of explosive go-forward players that could give us the type of explostive go-foward momentum where the aussies would not have simply been able to reorganise and make tacke after tackle, must have been a world record of tackles made.

• 456.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:04 pm

  Skop

  There I agree we need them

  Elstad will be there sooner rather than later

  Danie

• 457.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:05 pm

  Danie, Vic and Smit are rubbish at clearing rucks

• 458.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:07 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-452:

  it was ONE more LOSS to add to his mammoth tally of consecutive losses the past two years.. how good a game is it when your captain leads you to another LOSS.. you wanna make excuses for the compromise.. because that is EXACTLY what it has been the past 2 years solid.. a stupid imbecile compromise that has resulted in Boks sliding downhill since 2009 when Smit played at 3 BEFORE he took Bismark’s position off him…

  If Smit could not cut it at prop he should have got the FCK out the way.. and Boks would still be in the WC.. Guaranteed.. the Cancerous Compromise is what fckd up Boks hopes and NOTHING else.. whatsoever…

• 459.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:07 pm

  Cab

  The oppo started to pick players who were really good under the high ball

  ABs dropped Sivi and Rocket

• 460.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:10 pm

  Skop

  Too late after PDiv played Smit into the ground at prop

• 461.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:11 pm

  Your Captain?

  Mine is Juan Smith for now

• 462.cab:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:12 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-459:
  thats true, but Jane, Dagg, OConnor, Beale – Love nothing better than counter-attacking.

• 463.vindicated:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:12 pm

  Actually when you go back and remember the good times, the Boks, since Jake White days were only good when refs ignored forward passes, offside play (on defense) and got the intercept – think about it bru, u know its true

• 464.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:14 pm

  Cab

  They all good catch a ball and our tactical kicking was rubbish

  Refs started pinging Boks in 2010, why?

• 465.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:15 pm

  463

  Fark off

• 466.Jeraldjay:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:16 pm

  Surely Juan Smith would have been ready by the time we played Namibia.
  His loss was a moerse loss. The perfect link between forwards and the backs and great at the back of the lineout.

  Klaar wat dit soe is.

• 467.vindicated:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:16 pm

  and losing to Aussie is nothing to hang your head in shame about – they are the 2nd best side in the world….. and …….they remain the only team in contention to win their 3rd World Cup …..and ….. not for the first time

• 468.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:17 pm

  ABs will win this RWC

  Good on them, should help to get bums on seats again, I hope

• 469.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:18 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-461: Juan Smith (as brilliant a player as he is) is 30 now and injury prone. I do not think he is a good candidate for captain.

• 470.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:18 pm

  No team who lost in the pool games deserve the WWE

• 471.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:19 pm

  469

  For now, who else?

• 472.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:21 pm

  Maybe we give it to Elstad, the captaincy

• 473.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:21 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-460:

  it was one compromise after another… SOMEWHERE they had to find a place for the WC winning aura.. it was like a blood pact between two star turned lovers who could not cut each other adrift and so this pact actually is what sunk the entire team as a result…

  Bismark knows it.. Matfield knows it.. even Divvy and Smit know it.. but they are sweeping it under the carpet because its too painful a reality to check it out square in the face.. Smit’s desire and ambition to be bigger than the teams progression is what sunk this team.. Try pretend any which way it was not the case.. that is EXACTLY what crippled Boks chances in every aspect.. because by including Smit you lose not only Bismarks aggression and go forward zeal but you diminish an entirely different combination of momentum and principles where EVERYONE is pulling together for ONE cause and not 14 pulling to carry ONE passenger.. or 2 if you include Pierre Spies.. (and 3 if you wanna check FdP as the third.. or Habana bordering on No.4…)

  But Smit was THE critical straw that Broke Boks backs.. that is an unequivocal reality that none who are blinded by passionate hero worship will be able to recognize or see was the crux of why Boks were not pumping at 100% efficiency.. for 2 whole years and culminating in a WC campaign that was fraught with one too many passengers who by their inclusion negated the potency of the combination of the whole without them…

• 474.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:24 pm

  Skop

  Nothing wrong with the core bar Smit, Spies and Habana and maybe JDV and Matfield

• 475.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:26 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-471: Maybe Bismarck. He is the only forward of the current bunch that is left who if he avoids injury looks certain to be around for the next world cup.

• 476.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:26 pm

  Fact is it is easy in the cheap seats

  I would say that it all boiled down to coaches

• 477.JL1:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:29 pm

  475

  Bissy!?
  Nowhere have I read or heard of his leadership capabilities

  We need to maybe try a few as captain

• 478.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:32 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-474:

  That IS the core .. no more core left after them..

  Bakkies is kaput.. FdP kaput.. Roussow half kaput.. Matfield nearly kaput.. JdV .. hanging gingerly on kaput… Butch klaar gelag kaput.. Smit long time dead and buried kaput.. Burger… half of what he was kaput… Habana.. oor en uit kaput.. JPP, Fourie, Steyn, only ones left and not yet kaput…

• 479.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:38 pm

  Must find a new young captain who can carry the team another 4 – 6 years.. not an interim measure..

  From current players I would have made Smith or JdV captain before Smit or Matfield…

  But now their time too is over.. now you must invest in next generation captain.. and if its not Chiliboy then you have to find somebody who perhaps is not even a Bok yet and earmark him for the big job..

  I’ll tell you who has good captaincy credibility is Frans Louw.. got every making of a very good captain and not a shabby player either.. almost like a Francoise Pienaar.. or Gary Teichmann … not flash.. not out of this world knock your socks off super duper rugby talent but steady and solid as a rock with a very good equanimity and cool collected head who can see and visualize the big picture and has both the gift of the gab and some down to earth solid sincere common sense..

  Frans Louw could have been a real gem of a Bok captain if they were able to see who got what quality and where it fits best…

• 480.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:39 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-473: Sorry but the hole in your argument is that it was not our forwards that lost us the World Cup. You cannot against one of the top 3 nations on the planet in your wildest dreams expect to get more go forward possession than we got against the Aussies with Smit on the field. Bismarck should have started but him not starting was not the reason we lost. Smit still had a lot to offer in the set pieces where the Aussie scrum was put under huge pressure with him on the field and in the lineouts where he was highly effective. What we did with all that possession is what cost us the match simple as that.
  You do have a point that it was unfair on a player like Bismarck to be kept from starting when he is clearly the best number 2 in the country but there is also an argument for Smit and his captaincy. What I do not buy is that this which was so many peoples focus is what lost us the World Cup. For that you have to look at 9 and 10. FDP is a shadow of the player he once was and Steyn did everything that could be expected of a player with his limitations but being the best goal kicker in the world and little else was never going to be good enough.

• 481.vindicated:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:50 pm

  Jurie Roux, chief executive officer of SARU “I know that the players and management did everything in their power to continue South Africa’s run of success at the Rugby World Cup.” bullshyte, liar, you, more than anyone else, should shoulder responsibility for this debacle and do the right thing – farkoff idiot

• 482.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 21:51 pm

  @JL1(JL1)-477: I agree we need to look at a few options. But Bismarck is worth looking at. Teichmann was a great captain who never said a lot but led by example Bismarck could maybe be similar.

• 483.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:00 pm

  There is only one coach who’s maintained the type of winning record that competes with the ABs, and that’s Mallet. Sure, he made mistakes that he’s admitted, so did Henry. With his experience since then, I reckon he’s the best contender if SARU is interested and he wants it.

• 484.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:01 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-480:

  Nope by including Smit as much of a middle of the road compromise that it was effectively nullified our absolute all out front foot aggression through second phase where rugby is largely won or lost these days.. i.e. the breakdown.. by starting Bismark and Alberts you make NO bones about the fact that we are going all out to negate and take opposition to the cleaners without any compromise of playing our safe middle of the road options first…

  Smit did not have a bad game.. and FdP has deteriorated substantially which is one of the factors I warned about incessantly throughout the past two years where Boks have slid down the ratings as top notch contenders.. check my unholy comments about it here on this blog ad infinitum where I have been warning that FdP will undo the go forward of this team.. same as Spies and Smit.. to one or other degree..

  But the BIG issues are three fold..

  1. Smit undermines and compromises the best participants in the Bok team combining together as a collective and powerful whole to annihilate and diminish any possible hold the opposition can gain in the game from first kick off…

  2. The mode or strategy of game plan coordinates are flawed and faulty… playing Burger as go to 1st receiver and thinking we will punish our way through the gain line with a slow and ineffective ball carrying flank who whittles away any degree of momentum or speed through the back line is the crux of why our back line does simply not function…. and

  3. FdP is a nullifying ineffective link who has become both too slow at retreading 2nd phase ball to quick in your face attack ..

  So it is not Morne or JdV or Fourie or wings who are stuffing up the back line potential.. it is firstly FdP slowing everything down to a canter to compensate for his lack of energetic infiltration .. or else

  2. it is Burger carrying almost every back line ball into a dead end cul de sack scenario where all the attack momentum has to start all over again once it has broken down through his ineffective lack of power or drive through the gain line… and

  3. By starting Smit.. and Spies … you negate 2 of your most effective weapons, namely Bismark and Alberts.. and by starting FdP you leave your most influential game breaking potential out on a limb where he may become effective too late in proceedings.. namely Hougaard..

  Hougaard should have started at 9…
  Bismark at 2
  Alberts at 7 or 8

  Beast on bench (another compromise as a result of starting Smit and having to cover 3 front row positions with 2 players in a 4/3 split)…

  Aplon on for Habana if and when Habana either bombs or gets broken down

  and Boks would have still been in the competition… and I’d go far as to say we would have won it again…

• 485.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:08 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-479: Lambie.

  Michaelhouse Head Boy.

• 486.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:11 pm

  Puke Watson as captain

  Bust a gut… break open the egg.. and who knows you might even get a well cooked omelette out of it…

  you be surprised what could come out of a left field brave daft call such as that…

  But I doubt anyone got the balls to make such a call..

  Unless who knows.. Nick Mallet or Alan Solomons might even do such a daft unsavory unswerving thing…

  Wouldn’t even be surprised if Jake White would go to the lengths of trying to make amends for his fckup last time around and try heal the wounds that were slashed open as a result of his insular protectionism and vindictive ostracism..

• 487.Robzim:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:12 pm

  it’s more or less an open secret that Schalk Burger will be the new captain- and AC the coach with rassie and Nienaber very much involved.

• 488.David:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:13 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-484:
  Now that’s an extremely astute analysis of the game., and I agree. Anyway, I’m off to bed. Cheers.

• 489.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:16 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-486: sorry, Watson is too controversial (read: divisive) and not international grade.

• 490.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:17 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-485:

  Perhaps .. maybe.. who knows.. but a little too young and raw to chuck him in the absolute deep end at this early stage of his development..

  Also Full back can be a place where a captain can function but these days I recon its a little too far from the action to make effective telling calls and on the spot off the cuff deductions…

• 491.ashampoopaloo:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:18 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-487:

  Oh well another four f’ng years of pulling my hair out and swearing at the TV at the top of my lungs..

  think I better start watching skittle sticks instead…

  @David(David)-488: nag ou grote

• 492.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:18 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-487: and with that combo we better accept 65% results…

  

• 493.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:21 pm

  Oh! You poor, sad, worthless, foolish fools why do you get it so wrong almost always? Why do you not understand why you hurtle from one small national disaster to the next time after time with the next one about to be set in motion anytime, even tommorrow?

  It is not merely the players or coach or a DoR or Saru per se, although each in increasing order is implicated in the contribution to an impending failure. The cause of the problem right at the root is the national psyche and thus attitude. That huge factor is divided and not merely in half but in many fragments each gravitating in its own direction.

  Let the logic and rationale of a medical scientist, at the highest level, help you to understand once and for always by means of an analogy first followed by sport specifics.

  If your house or mansion has a flawed or unsound foundation you do not set about repairing the small visible cracks in the walls or the known leaks in the roof and such like first. Before you set about those problems you have to correct the flawed foundation beyond any question of any unsoundness. Everything else in order follows after that corrective measure.

  If then the national attitude is so fragmented into so many pieces by a lack of faith in the existence of a true non-racial democratic foundation what and how can a coach or a DoR or Saru wholesomely construct on that flawed national structure?

  The confidences of all the people of the W. and E. Cape and Indian-heritaged people of Natal and all other people elsewhere who think and feel similarly need to be regained to the point that the sporting venues in those areas become fortresses for the national teams.

  When you look at a stunning, intricately complex painting of a Picasso or a Van Gogh or a Monet on its solid foundation how many realise that that complexity is made up of the sum of all the small strokes of the brush in many colours and many directions? Such is the complexity and oneness of a people.

  Fragmentation breeds problems and disasters in any aspect of life.

• 494.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:22 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-487:

  Do you still question, so snidely and smugly, the scientific analysis in any aspect of life even history?

• 495.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:23 pm

  Yawn.

  Does anyone reads these convoluted, meaningless, BORING posts by the Estranged Turtle?

• 496.Robzim:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:23 pm

  @ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-491:

  Lol, ja well, i think the Aussies/protea 20 overs series starts on Friday.
  Apparently Australia has a new 18 year old quickie who already bowls at 150 km’s an hour.
  I am also not the greatest fan of Burger but he has a lot of support- is well connected and he is very popular all over south africa amongs the fans.

  Who do you reckon will contest the RWC final now that the minows have been eliminated?

• 497.Robzim:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:25 pm

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-492:

  Who do you suggest should get the jobs?

• 498.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:25 pm

  Tacitus had it right earlier today in terms of what we as Bok fans should expect.

  Nothing less than 80% win ratio.

  Win every home game against all opposition.
  Beat every NH team and Arg home and away.

• 499.ET.:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:26 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-487:

  Where then will that leave your Stormers?

  When I left Cape the first time there was no Stormers.

  Only after my 2nd trip back home did I learn of their construction.

• 500.wooden spoon:
  12 Oct 2011, 22:26 pm

  @Robzim(Robzim)-497: For head coach I’d be happy with any of Brendan Venter, Mallet or Mitchell.

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